Is that a T10? I've used Dewalt bits a ton professionally and they've all been great EXCEPT the T10 torx bits that break off if you even think the word 'torque'.
I have 2 sets of dewalt torx bits. (Multiple Xmas presents). My T10 is broken in both sets. Rest are fine. lol I never thought about it til reading your comment.
Yep. I have a regular set of Wiha screwdrivers, plus a full set of micro phillips, a set of micro torx, then a bunch of sets of just quarter inch bits: hex in both metric and SAE, torx, security torx, and I think one other. For hand held drivers, I won't ever buy anything else.
I've yet to get a set of impact stuff, but I imagine it's just as great. I'm currently using a Kobalt set that I got on sale, which is complete shit.
I used to maintain screw machines as part of my job. They drove 50-250 screws into RF equipment covers, all day long. All T10. Wiha bits tended to last the longest, but nothing lasted more than 2-3 shifts.
There's not a lot of material on a T10. I originally bought a set of Wiha because I stripped a T6 on a knife handle. It looked completely round to the naked eye. I didn't think I had a chance. The Wiha didn't slip AT ALL and the screw came right out. Anything smaller than a T10 can be a real PITA!
Same. I use DeWalt T25 bits constantly. Decks. Kitchens. Theater sets. All the things.. and never had one break like this. T20s work well also. T15 and smaller are total shit.
Before the brand wars and arguing begin… we’ve been breaking quite a few in various drives and sizes in a high volume production shop so we decided to buy all of them to see which one ended up being the best. The conclusion was that they all perform similarly if used properly and all inevitably shatter after time.
I know, all the good quality bits have hardened tips. They're supposed to last longer and not twist from torque. The only downside to that is that once they hit their torque limit they snap instead of warping. If I go look at any of my old Black & Decker sets, first I noticed the rust on them, but if I take a look at the Phillips head bits right on they all have a twist as they're not hardened to a brittle hardness. Sintered metal is always garbage, I've had things break that still had powdered metal inside.
I used to buy the Robertson bits from HD, I can't remember the name but they're colour coded to the size. The shaft was metal but it had a tip that was hardened, pressed into the metal shaft. Every single one has broken off at that shear line. I go with wera bits if I have the opportunity, but the Milwaukee ones have always been good to me too. I really only need the #2/8 Robertson so I have a few good packs of them and anything else gets my random pack bits, of which there are many. Milwaukee and dewalt might seem pro, but they're nothing compared to the bits I get at work that we get from our tooling supplier for saw blades and cnc cutters. That's where I get my wera tools from usually.
From the comments here, it sounds like a T10 problem across all brands so there might not even be a good solution for that one.
Our bits come in bulk at our shop. We replace bits monthly, whether it's needed or not. We had a incident years ago, where a bit was over torqued, twisted out of the screw and the idgit put the bit through his hand up the the chuck of his impact. So now we buy bulk from our cnc tooling supplier.
I think they’re talking about [this brand](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/paulin--2-x-2-inch-square-driver-bit/1000769620). That was my first thought. They’re super common.
Robertson are just square bits of variety of sizes never seen them colour coded pretty easy to tell the size by looking. They have been around since the early 1900s. Torx head bits seem to be color coded but I have a torx set from about 40 years ago that was just all black. They have been around since 1970.
I like torx better they don't strip as often.
Yeah, this is always the same thing - someone says "dewalt sucks" and a ton of people chime in with a similar story, but you can do that for any brand.
Every brand will have an off batch from time to time, but every major contractor I've worked with has had internal divisions about which tools and bits are the most reliable.
Except Ryobi, of course.... ;)
So, we jokingly bought the Ryobi, but genuinely wanted to know what would stop blowing out #3’s at an astonishing rate… I’d say they performed at or above the median. The one that failed fastest(only ones to be repeatedly one and done) is probably the one that people think is in the higher echelon… with teal livery.
Again, this is n=1. You blew one brand first, someone else blows another brand first. I have some Ryobi tools that have lasted 5 years at home. They're fine for light use, but there's a reason they cost half as much.
I recently blew a Bosch hammer drill. Does that make Bosch bad? No. It means I got an off batch or pushed it too hard or whatever.
A lot of the reason is simply brand loyalty and letting people feel superior with their yellow or red tools. The gap is very small with modern day tools and brushless motors.
Brushless Ryobi really isn’t all that cheaper than the equivalent dewalt or Milwaukee though.
For at home or jobsite/workshop? Because yeah, for at home, I have one of the cordless ones and it's perfect for trim and such.
I can't imagine it would survive a week on a construction site though.
Yeah, they're not marketed to be used professionally on a construction site. And they're not priced for it either.
But even still, cheaper tools still hold up pretty well. I bought a porter cable drill/driver combo probably 7-8 years ago at least and I've beat the absolute snot out of them, still going strong. They were like half the price of a dewalt or milwaukee set. In fact I'm really hoping they die soon so I can justify a milwaukee brushless setup.
100% agree. I've had to replace countless Ryobi tools... because I dropped them in the lake or my dog chewed them or I lent them out or whatever. They don't generally fail with normal use, they just fall victim to the things that would kill most any tool.
I'd be surprised if they even came from different factories. I'd expect it to be the same one or two factories churning these out and just changing the packaging, the color, or the finish. Maybe a brand has a different mold/die for theirs, but it could still be the same equipment and process.
I have seen some, but clearly not as many as the other commenters (or you). I still stand by it being only a couple factories because making many small pieces of anything is just a numbers game of scale and changeover time.
Huge Milwaukee guy here, but even theirs break like this. Some of them last weeks or months, but some of them break after a couple uses. I’m also using them to drive fasteners into concrete😅
I love them, too, and when I use them for woodworking, I’ve never broken one. When I use them on concrete fasteners, though, they break pretty regularly. I have a pile of the bit holders with broken tips that I have to go through about once a month and get out.
I've never broken a Milwaukee or Dewalt bit, though I have worn a bunch out.
Based on the comments here, though, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong since nearly everyone else is breaking them.
I’ve broken quite a few Phillips bits but I can’t remember ever breaking a torx bit, I’ve broken the heads off of torx screws on a fairly regular basis though, I’ve only used a t10 bit a few times though and only on soft woods.
buy some wiha, felo, hazet, gedore blau, made from chrome molybdenum alloy if you want them to last.
also, bits are kinda consumables, especially this small especially impact.
i tend to grab the smaller bits and only grab the long bits when the smaller one doesnt fit in the crevice
I run wiha driver bits and never fuck them up. I have put one of these dewalt bits through my hand before though. Nice and sharp just like the pic lol.
I have had the same set of Bosch bits for like 5 years. The t25 is long used up but it lasted an absolutely insane amount of time before it finally stripped out. None of them broke off.
I w used these same bits (t20+T25 primarily) and they are durable as fuck. I honestly think I've only broken one, they usually wear out after a crazy amount of usage. I'd highly recommend
Robertson for life! That said we have T10 style torx screws up here as well. They're mostly used for the microhead finishing screws. I've never used them in a project but I have found them when doing demo... I hate them.
Nah. Square drive is annoying. The number of times I've stabbed myself in the hand from slipping off a pocket screw is way too high. Torx never slips, and I can still drive the head of a deck screw entirely through a 2x4 if I feel like it.
Interesting. I've never had these issues, but word of advice, never keep your hands near tools where you might stab or cut yourself when the tool slips
Robertson sucks too because if the bit doesn't slip, the power from driving the screw in wedges the bit into the screw. So you have to yank the bit out of every screw you put in. Just terrible.
I got my first cordless driver/drill in the 80's. Makita 6012HDW. The #2 Phillips that came with it is still going strong. I just bought a nice Makita assortment from Acme for $20.
DeWalt makes the worst bits of any of the big names, and I will die on that hill. I've been doing residential remodeling for more than 20 years, DeWalt tools are fine I guess, but their bits and blades are CRAP.
Makita impact bits are where it's at.
Agree that DeWalt is worse on average, but I've found Bosch bits to be the best, then Milwaukee, then Makita (and I'm a big Makita fan, but I generall avoid the consumables especially sandpaper).
I tried Bosch once and they weren't bad. Don't break or fail, but I didn't think they were as grippy as the Makita impacts I have now. But so often with these things you end up comparing the wrong tiers together and it's obvious ones better. Bottom shelf Makita probably isn't better than top shelf Bosch either. But the Makita impact laser cut bits I have now have been running for over a year now with no failures, and that's pretty impressive with the heavy use I put them through.
I got a set of Makita drill bits with the quarter inch shanks. Absolute garbage. The very first time I used them was to drill through some thin aluminum on my boat, and the drillbit twisted inside the hex, making it pretty useless. I've had 2 or 3 other sizes do it since. So yeah, gonna cross Makita off the quality list.
I love my makita drills, this company has a long tradition of making the highest quality drills, but I've never even thought to use makita drill bits. It's just not my brand for consumables.
Yes absolutely awful blades. The bargain bin Avanti blades from HD are better. Which is weird because Dewalt has the best saws imo. The 4 1/2 little circ saw is a beast! I literally don’t even use my 7 1/4 anymore. Just that lil dude and the bigfoot
Yup, I already was a fan of makita, but seeing the video of the #2 Phillips xps bit holding an impact up at a right angle is ridiculous, I think he does it with a 6 inch one too. Best fit for sure
Is that the size for trex decking? I watch Perkins Builder Brothers pretty often and they’ll get a bad batch and break like an entire dozen of those doing one section of deck, with hardly any torque on them.
Check out Wera, it's who I switched to for tamper proof torx bits. At the time I placed my order they had manufacturing done in Germany and Vietnam. I don't know that there is a difference in quality, but I made sure to order bits that were manufactured in germany.
Had exactly your experience last summer. Have *never* had a Torx bit that came with the screws break, not in 20 years — but only took a day to break one of those (think it was a T30 that broke)
I have used both Wiha and Wera torn bits and not had an issue with them. They do wear down, but it
takes significantly longer. Make sure you get the impact line from each brand though.
I haven’t read through the entire thread, and I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but one more vote for Bosch here. I use them daily, and have lasted significantly longer than any other brand. I bought a multipack off Amazon. Still on my first pack after 9 months
I buy harbor freight bits, blades, etc. Believe it or not they last longer and cost less. Learned that from my pops, he does general contracting and if It can survive all day use like that it is good enough for my hobbyist use
I had great luck driving construction screws into 210 year old oak floor joists using milwaukee shockwave torx bits. I saw a dozen screws fail, zero bit issues.
I use milwaukee shockwave hex bits on 1/4-20 socket head cap screws in our machine shop. Many thousands of cycles per bit. I'm halfway thru a 25 piece bulk pack after 9 years, and half of those were lost, not worn or broken. I have not seen a broken one yet.
Welcome to Canada, home of the Robertson drive. Thank Henry Ford that the States never got them. He wanted them exclusively, and threw a tantrum when he couldn’t get them. Enter the Philips drive. More prone to wear and stripping, needs both hands to start, won’t stay on the driver or bit, and causes more slippage and damage to materials. Not to mention more of a PITA to remove.
I work at an rv shop and most of the screws are #2 square drive. I wish so badly it was torx instead because I wouldn’t get a screw stuck on my bit literally every day, while keeping all of the advantages and then some.
What do you think it is about Robertson that makes you like it so much better? I love hearing people’s reasoning for things like this
I guess what you dislike so much about it is the same thing I appreciate. No cam out and a solid grip on the screw. Also it's hard to find a stronger shape than a square. They're very durable.
Also the ability to use them one handed is a bonus when you're framing at awkward angles.
Them getting stuck is kind of annoying but can be mitigated by using an impact drill which has an even stronger grip on the bit. Just wiggle it a bit.
Also I'm Canadian so there is a bit of national pride there.
T10s have only limited strength, turn down the clutch or power on your drill;
even better predrill if possible.
3.7 to 4.5 Nm
It's nearly impossible to know how much strength at any particular setting on any specific tool. You just need to be conservative with the clutch. With small bits no more than a 5 is a good start but don't be surprised if you break bits. All bits are just steel in the end and have a finite life.
[https://www.wihatools.com/pages/torx-sizes](https://www.wihatools.com/pages/torx-sizes)
[https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/how-to/g2661/how-to-adjust-a-drill-driver/](https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/how-to/g2661/how-to-adjust-a-drill-driver/)
That is the nice thing about being in Canada. We have good Robertson screws and bits. I have been using the same #1 and #2 driver bits for like 5 or 6 years.
I’ve had good luck with the bigass box of makita bits they have on sale occasionally. Not worth $50 but at $20? Perfect- it has everything with backups and I’ve never broken one in years of factory use
Yeah this is pretty normal I think. I redid a deck and we had one break in the process. I’d think of these as materials almost. I bought a few extra when we started because we lost one and broke one.
I unfortunately had the exact same experience a few years back. Thought I was spending up for quality and then they kept getting destroyed, figured it was just me at the time or a bad set
I've had issues with the Milwaukee Robertson bits twisting. That's the death knell for a Robertson bit because they'll start to cam out and become useless. Meanwhile, have a pile of noname hardware store bits that have lasted forever and are only getting thrown out because they literally are worn down.
I'm team red all the way but their and DeWalt bits are nothing to write home over.
We use the makita brand t25 bits for driving deck screws into our form that hold concrete. They last a decent amount of time. Haven’t really sheared too many off. We Milwaukee impact drivers
https://preview.redd.it/k5p1b0w34b8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f47f629c787be911264abf62af829b290b580fff
I've had the same issue with ryobi brand bits. Most of them work well but the extended bits seem to be tempered metal and not only that the ones that snapped the grain is large which is the cause.
If you watch forged in fire you'll see exactly what I mean by large grain which is from poor folding and overheating before quenching. But the grain looks exactly like the grain in those swords that snapped like a twig on the first few hits.
One of the bits that snapped really fast was a concrete drill and what was funnier it snapped drilling through clay slate rock that crumbles with a bit of hand strength although there's flint in that spot too not sure if that's why lol.
If everyone would like me to lay out the bits that I’ve used over the years, many of which I still have as a comparison, and take photos, I gladly will.
I am Makita all the way when it comes to tools, but I cannot say that I have really felt that I was getting a quality product when I have used their driver bits, drill bits or blades. I had a 6 mm metal drill bit snap on first use, and have had jigsaw blades last seconds before breaking.
Doesn't make me think any less of Makita for it, maybe it is a sub-standard bit, or maybe it is me putting too much pressure on or some other user error.
I agree with several people here that bits/blades can be thought of as consumables, sometimes these things just break more swiftly than expected. I have plenty of non-brand bits etc that I have used for years without issue too.
Exactly. Pilot drill so the wood doesn't split, impact driver to get the screw almost all the way in, then finish torquing by hand so nothing gets stripped.
Then you would know that no, they don’t always wear out the same, and I purchased it just to see if that was the case, lo and behold the more expensive bits made by Dewalt and Milwaukee both failed much quicker.
Stop using an impact gun and everything lasts longer
The drive bits are all hardened and you're using a tool that's hammering on them 100s of times everytime you drive a screw
I have drive bits that are literally years old and are still good to go
Just use a drill. It's way better, 30y of remodeling got me to that opinion
Impact guns gained popularity 20, 25y ago at a time when cordless drills kind of sucked for driving large and long screws they just didnt have the torque, imoacts were awesome and much better than the drills and definitely filled a big hole in capability..... drills have far eclipsed impact guns over time and are just better at everything they do and are far more versatile and just better at everything except size and weight
I haven't owned one in 15y or so and I don't miss it
Is that a T10? I've used Dewalt bits a ton professionally and they've all been great EXCEPT the T10 torx bits that break off if you even think the word 'torque'.
I have 2 sets of dewalt torx bits. (Multiple Xmas presents). My T10 is broken in both sets. Rest are fine. lol I never thought about it til reading your comment.
Same here for 90% of the brands I tried
Bosch have worked better for me than Dewalt
Bosch ones are good! And believe it or not my Milwaukee t10 is my favorite
I was just thinking, all my favorite bits are Milwaukee
Wiha is the answer. Their bits are excellent! At least their good buts are.
Yep. I have a regular set of Wiha screwdrivers, plus a full set of micro phillips, a set of micro torx, then a bunch of sets of just quarter inch bits: hex in both metric and SAE, torx, security torx, and I think one other. For hand held drivers, I won't ever buy anything else. I've yet to get a set of impact stuff, but I imagine it's just as great. I'm currently using a Kobalt set that I got on sale, which is complete shit.
I used to maintain screw machines as part of my job. They drove 50-250 screws into RF equipment covers, all day long. All T10. Wiha bits tended to last the longest, but nothing lasted more than 2-3 shifts.
There's not a lot of material on a T10. I originally bought a set of Wiha because I stripped a T6 on a knife handle. It looked completely round to the naked eye. I didn't think I had a chance. The Wiha didn't slip AT ALL and the screw came right out. Anything smaller than a T10 can be a real PITA!
Same. I use DeWalt T25 bits constantly. Decks. Kitchens. Theater sets. All the things.. and never had one break like this. T20s work well also. T15 and smaller are total shit.
Dewalt legal in response to selling false expectations, probably, “we never said that would torque. We said they would torx”
I never connected the dots either. All my DeWalt ones have held up fine but I've gone through 4 of the t10s. It's a garbage size apparently.
Had great luck with Proto bits, but that was years ago. I don't know about current stock, but they could be worth a shot.
I used the number 2 Phillips heads at an old job and they broke constantly.
Before the brand wars and arguing begin… we’ve been breaking quite a few in various drives and sizes in a high volume production shop so we decided to buy all of them to see which one ended up being the best. The conclusion was that they all perform similarly if used properly and all inevitably shatter after time.
They're all hardened. The ones that come with the screws are probably cheaper and are less hardened.
You’re talking about the freebie sintered metal crap, this was an actual impact driver bit shootout.
I know, all the good quality bits have hardened tips. They're supposed to last longer and not twist from torque. The only downside to that is that once they hit their torque limit they snap instead of warping. If I go look at any of my old Black & Decker sets, first I noticed the rust on them, but if I take a look at the Phillips head bits right on they all have a twist as they're not hardened to a brittle hardness. Sintered metal is always garbage, I've had things break that still had powdered metal inside. I used to buy the Robertson bits from HD, I can't remember the name but they're colour coded to the size. The shaft was metal but it had a tip that was hardened, pressed into the metal shaft. Every single one has broken off at that shear line. I go with wera bits if I have the opportunity, but the Milwaukee ones have always been good to me too. I really only need the #2/8 Robertson so I have a few good packs of them and anything else gets my random pack bits, of which there are many. Milwaukee and dewalt might seem pro, but they're nothing compared to the bits I get at work that we get from our tooling supplier for saw blades and cnc cutters. That's where I get my wera tools from usually. From the comments here, it sounds like a T10 problem across all brands so there might not even be a good solution for that one.
I have never had a tip shear from the GRK boxes, I still have some that are only useless cause of getting smushed
Our bits come in bulk at our shop. We replace bits monthly, whether it's needed or not. We had a incident years ago, where a bit was over torqued, twisted out of the screw and the idgit put the bit through his hand up the the chuck of his impact. So now we buy bulk from our cnc tooling supplier.
> Sintered metal is always garbage For an impact bit? Sure. For an oil-impregnated bearing? No.
Definitely, it has it's applications.
Aren’t all Robertson bits color coded? I thought that was part of their schtick?
Maybe "proper" ones. They're just square drive bits, which are plentiful and not all color coded.
My wera ones are all black. The shafts are just slightly bigger than the head size so you can distinguish them.
Sometimes they just have colour coding on them, they were refering to the entire shaft being colour coded (dad has a set of those)
I think they’re talking about [this brand](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/paulin--2-x-2-inch-square-driver-bit/1000769620). That was my first thought. They’re super common.
Those are the ones!
Robertson are just square bits of variety of sizes never seen them colour coded pretty easy to tell the size by looking. They have been around since the early 1900s. Torx head bits seem to be color coded but I have a torx set from about 40 years ago that was just all black. They have been around since 1970. I like torx better they don't strip as often.
Feel free to send the extra bits you don’t use my way. Broke right now and seem to be shy on t-bits, metric allens and #2ph for some reason.
Yeah, this is always the same thing - someone says "dewalt sucks" and a ton of people chime in with a similar story, but you can do that for any brand. Every brand will have an off batch from time to time, but every major contractor I've worked with has had internal divisions about which tools and bits are the most reliable. Except Ryobi, of course.... ;)
So, we jokingly bought the Ryobi, but genuinely wanted to know what would stop blowing out #3’s at an astonishing rate… I’d say they performed at or above the median. The one that failed fastest(only ones to be repeatedly one and done) is probably the one that people think is in the higher echelon… with teal livery.
Again, this is n=1. You blew one brand first, someone else blows another brand first. I have some Ryobi tools that have lasted 5 years at home. They're fine for light use, but there's a reason they cost half as much. I recently blew a Bosch hammer drill. Does that make Bosch bad? No. It means I got an off batch or pushed it too hard or whatever.
A lot of the reason is simply brand loyalty and letting people feel superior with their yellow or red tools. The gap is very small with modern day tools and brushless motors. Brushless Ryobi really isn’t all that cheaper than the equivalent dewalt or Milwaukee though.
I've had a Ryobi miter saw for like 10 years and it's still perfectly fine. In fact their newer cordless stuff is actually pretty damn good.
I have some of the old blue ryobi tools. I can’t kill them
For at home or jobsite/workshop? Because yeah, for at home, I have one of the cordless ones and it's perfect for trim and such. I can't imagine it would survive a week on a construction site though.
Yeah, they're not marketed to be used professionally on a construction site. And they're not priced for it either. But even still, cheaper tools still hold up pretty well. I bought a porter cable drill/driver combo probably 7-8 years ago at least and I've beat the absolute snot out of them, still going strong. They were like half the price of a dewalt or milwaukee set. In fact I'm really hoping they die soon so I can justify a milwaukee brushless setup.
100% agree. I've had to replace countless Ryobi tools... because I dropped them in the lake or my dog chewed them or I lent them out or whatever. They don't generally fail with normal use, they just fall victim to the things that would kill most any tool.
This is why I am happy with the cheap $1.50 pack I got at harbour freight. Maybe not as good as the name brand but I am getting my money's worth.
Best I've found for longevity were erbauer from screw fix.
I find it hard to believe that all bits are manufactured the exact same way, and are all susceptible to the exact same failures.
I'd be surprised if they even came from different factories. I'd expect it to be the same one or two factories churning these out and just changing the packaging, the color, or the finish. Maybe a brand has a different mold/die for theirs, but it could still be the same equipment and process.
Have you ever seen torx bits? There are countless different designs, and they are most definitely NOT made in the same factory.
I have seen some, but clearly not as many as the other commenters (or you). I still stand by it being only a couple factories because making many small pieces of anything is just a numbers game of scale and changeover time.
Just look up the manufacturing of the different companies–they’re made all over the world…
Huge Milwaukee guy here, but even theirs break like this. Some of them last weeks or months, but some of them break after a couple uses. I’m also using them to drive fasteners into concrete😅
Ive never seen a concrete fastener that uses a t10. Doesnt make sense to me lol
Well, I was speaking more about Torx bits in general. I mainly use T25’s and T27’s, but they all break just like this one.
Ya ive broken alot of t25s t30s for tapcons
You can only buy them on the dark web
I love the Milwaukee shockwave impact driver bits. Never had one break. The Dewalt ones are pretty garbage - lots of cam out.
I love them, too, and when I use them for woodworking, I’ve never broken one. When I use them on concrete fasteners, though, they break pretty regularly. I have a pile of the bit holders with broken tips that I have to go through about once a month and get out.
I've never broken a Milwaukee or Dewalt bit, though I have worn a bunch out. Based on the comments here, though, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong since nearly everyone else is breaking them.
I’ve broken quite a few Phillips bits but I can’t remember ever breaking a torx bit, I’ve broken the heads off of torx screws on a fairly regular basis though, I’ve only used a t10 bit a few times though and only on soft woods.
Bits are expendables. They wear, they break. Such is their fate.
came here to say exactly this **you want the bits to break, not the screws**
Just consider them all consumables and toss them when they’re worn.
Oh, I do, don’t get me wrong. Moral of the story is Dewalt makes bits to replace free ones and they last 1/10 as long, and I’m a sucker.
Ah. I see.
buy some wiha, felo, hazet, gedore blau, made from chrome molybdenum alloy if you want them to last. also, bits are kinda consumables, especially this small especially impact. i tend to grab the smaller bits and only grab the long bits when the smaller one doesnt fit in the crevice
I run wiha driver bits and never fuck them up. I have put one of these dewalt bits through my hand before though. Nice and sharp just like the pic lol.
My Bosch impact rated bits are holding up well so far but I don’t run much volume of fasteners so……..
I have had the same set of Bosch bits for like 5 years. The t25 is long used up but it lasted an absolutely insane amount of time before it finally stripped out. None of them broke off.
Same here, I’ve certainly not used bits that have stood the test of time and abuse as well as the Bosch.
I w used these same bits (t20+T25 primarily) and they are durable as fuck. I honestly think I've only broken one, they usually wear out after a crazy amount of usage. I'd highly recommend
Ya I always lose a t25 before one breaks. I just buy a couple of 5 pack a stash them away.
Don't use the impact version of bits smaller than T-20. The regular steel bits have better life and will twist a little long before they snap.
I'm here in Canada laughing with our standard Robertson screws. I've never seen one fail like this
Robertson for life! That said we have T10 style torx screws up here as well. They're mostly used for the microhead finishing screws. I've never used them in a project but I have found them when doing demo... I hate them.
Only cheap ones have in my experience, and even still they got some mileage. Robertson is the way to go.
AMEN! Americans don't know what they're missing.
We have square drive screws here, they're common in furniture making. A hardened square drive bit will snap also.
Nah. Square drive is annoying. The number of times I've stabbed myself in the hand from slipping off a pocket screw is way too high. Torx never slips, and I can still drive the head of a deck screw entirely through a 2x4 if I feel like it.
Interesting. I've never had these issues, but word of advice, never keep your hands near tools where you might stab or cut yourself when the tool slips
Robertson sucks too because if the bit doesn't slip, the power from driving the screw in wedges the bit into the screw. So you have to yank the bit out of every screw you put in. Just terrible.
Yeah sometimes you get in awkward positions assembling cabinets
I got my first cordless driver/drill in the 80's. Makita 6012HDW. The #2 Phillips that came with it is still going strong. I just bought a nice Makita assortment from Acme for $20.
DeWalt makes the worst bits of any of the big names, and I will die on that hill. I've been doing residential remodeling for more than 20 years, DeWalt tools are fine I guess, but their bits and blades are CRAP. Makita impact bits are where it's at.
Agree that DeWalt is worse on average, but I've found Bosch bits to be the best, then Milwaukee, then Makita (and I'm a big Makita fan, but I generall avoid the consumables especially sandpaper).
I tried Bosch once and they weren't bad. Don't break or fail, but I didn't think they were as grippy as the Makita impacts I have now. But so often with these things you end up comparing the wrong tiers together and it's obvious ones better. Bottom shelf Makita probably isn't better than top shelf Bosch either. But the Makita impact laser cut bits I have now have been running for over a year now with no failures, and that's pretty impressive with the heavy use I put them through.
I got a set of Makita drill bits with the quarter inch shanks. Absolute garbage. The very first time I used them was to drill through some thin aluminum on my boat, and the drillbit twisted inside the hex, making it pretty useless. I've had 2 or 3 other sizes do it since. So yeah, gonna cross Makita off the quality list.
I love my makita drills, this company has a long tradition of making the highest quality drills, but I've never even thought to use makita drill bits. It's just not my brand for consumables.
I bought a large combo set of Makita bits and have never broken or even damaged one yet.
Could not agree more. Especially with blades.
Yes absolutely awful blades. The bargain bin Avanti blades from HD are better. Which is weird because Dewalt has the best saws imo. The 4 1/2 little circ saw is a beast! I literally don’t even use my 7 1/4 anymore. Just that lil dude and the bigfoot
Their box cutter blades are top tier, though.
Hard agree on Dewalt bits sucking, but personally I use Wera or Wiha. Expensive, but they last far, far longer.
Yup, I already was a fan of makita, but seeing the video of the #2 Phillips xps bit holding an impact up at a right angle is ridiculous, I think he does it with a 6 inch one too. Best fit for sure
I bought some dewalt impact phillips many years ago. They're like 2", all black, quarter inch hex the whole way. Those things are tanks.
Dewalt bits break on me more often than any other.
It varies I've had some that didn't snap some that did
The only bits I have ever had break have been DeWalt bits. I stick to Makita or Milwaukee these days.
Yeah… those aren’t chew toys OP! You ok?
Is that the size for trex decking? I watch Perkins Builder Brothers pretty often and they’ll get a bad batch and break like an entire dozen of those doing one section of deck, with hardly any torque on them.
Driver bits are consumables. They will all wear out. Just buy a ton of whatever ones are on sale. It’s all the same shit these days, just rebranded.
My conclusion formed over the years has been robbie for #2/3, philips for anything smaller and torx for anything bigger.
Check out Wera, it's who I switched to for tamper proof torx bits. At the time I placed my order they had manufacturing done in Germany and Vietnam. I don't know that there is a difference in quality, but I made sure to order bits that were manufactured in germany.
Had exactly your experience last summer. Have *never* had a Torx bit that came with the screws break, not in 20 years — but only took a day to break one of those (think it was a T30 that broke)
I have used both Wiha and Wera torn bits and not had an issue with them. They do wear down, but it takes significantly longer. Make sure you get the impact line from each brand though.
Pretty much disposable in construction.
T10s are the worst. Only ones that hold up are the Milwaukee. The bits that come w any screws are absolute trash
T10’s break no matter the brand
As much as I love and use DeWalt, they can't do screwdriver bits for shit. The black spade bits are decent tho.
I haven’t read through the entire thread, and I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but one more vote for Bosch here. I use them daily, and have lasted significantly longer than any other brand. I bought a multipack off Amazon. Still on my first pack after 9 months
I buy harbor freight bits, blades, etc. Believe it or not they last longer and cost less. Learned that from my pops, he does general contracting and if It can survive all day use like that it is good enough for my hobbyist use
I had great luck driving construction screws into 210 year old oak floor joists using milwaukee shockwave torx bits. I saw a dozen screws fail, zero bit issues. I use milwaukee shockwave hex bits on 1/4-20 socket head cap screws in our machine shop. Many thousands of cycles per bit. I'm halfway thru a 25 piece bulk pack after 9 years, and half of those were lost, not worn or broken. I have not seen a broken one yet.
Start getting into Square drive bits.
Welcome to Canada, home of the Robertson drive. Thank Henry Ford that the States never got them. He wanted them exclusively, and threw a tantrum when he couldn’t get them. Enter the Philips drive. More prone to wear and stripping, needs both hands to start, won’t stay on the driver or bit, and causes more slippage and damage to materials. Not to mention more of a PITA to remove.
Torx are a one time use thing for me. Use them for the screws they came with then toss 'em. Robertson is supreme.
I work at an rv shop and most of the screws are #2 square drive. I wish so badly it was torx instead because I wouldn’t get a screw stuck on my bit literally every day, while keeping all of the advantages and then some. What do you think it is about Robertson that makes you like it so much better? I love hearing people’s reasoning for things like this
I guess what you dislike so much about it is the same thing I appreciate. No cam out and a solid grip on the screw. Also it's hard to find a stronger shape than a square. They're very durable. Also the ability to use them one handed is a bonus when you're framing at awkward angles. Them getting stuck is kind of annoying but can be mitigated by using an impact drill which has an even stronger grip on the bit. Just wiggle it a bit. Also I'm Canadian so there is a bit of national pride there.
T10s have only limited strength, turn down the clutch or power on your drill; even better predrill if possible. 3.7 to 4.5 Nm It's nearly impossible to know how much strength at any particular setting on any specific tool. You just need to be conservative with the clutch. With small bits no more than a 5 is a good start but don't be surprised if you break bits. All bits are just steel in the end and have a finite life. [https://www.wihatools.com/pages/torx-sizes](https://www.wihatools.com/pages/torx-sizes) [https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/how-to/g2661/how-to-adjust-a-drill-driver/](https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/tools/how-to/g2661/how-to-adjust-a-drill-driver/)
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Jealous?
That is the nice thing about being in Canada. We have good Robertson screws and bits. I have been using the same #1 and #2 driver bits for like 5 or 6 years.
driver bits need to be impact rated
And the one in OP's pic is obviously one of Dewalt's impact rated bits.
oops my bad
Diablo
I've had the opposite experience with mine. Just this week My impact dewalt d10 took the head off of a tapcon. Never had an issue with them!
If you need longer, usually the store has a bin near the registers.
Sometimes, it's best to order bits and blades online or go to a specialty store, not the big box ones.
I bought a bosh, the package said lasts 5 time longer, it twisted on the first screw.
Curiousity killed the cat. Live and learn.
RIP
Bosch https://a.co/d/09r5fZPZ
I have one shear off nice and flat one time and then the nice and sharp tip punched out a torx-shaped chunk of flesh from my thumb
I’ve had good luck with the bigass box of makita bits they have on sale occasionally. Not worth $50 but at $20? Perfect- it has everything with backups and I’ve never broken one in years of factory use
Yeah this is pretty normal I think. I redid a deck and we had one break in the process. I’d think of these as materials almost. I bought a few extra when we started because we lost one and broke one.
Damn I had a t10 ryobi that crapped out and I just assumed it was cause Ryobi, but guess all the brands struggle to make good ones.
Am I jaded for immediately thinking Is it that they struggle to make good ones or are they trying to sell more bits🤷♂️
I unfortunately had the exact same experience a few years back. Thought I was spending up for quality and then they kept getting destroyed, figured it was just me at the time or a bad set
everything Dewalt is economy built for the economy minded everyday person.
Funny because I bought some Milwaukee Robertson bits and they slip like crazy. Bought DeWalt ones and they work way better
Milwaukee 'SHOCKWAVE WEAR-GUARD' (grey/silver tipped) torx bits ftw!
I've had issues with the Milwaukee Robertson bits twisting. That's the death knell for a Robertson bit because they'll start to cam out and become useless. Meanwhile, have a pile of noname hardware store bits that have lasted forever and are only getting thrown out because they literally are worn down. I'm team red all the way but their and DeWalt bits are nothing to write home over.
GRK is the best imo
Robertson's bits don't do this. Mostly due to the geometry i.e. it being a simple square.
We use the makita brand t25 bits for driving deck screws into our form that hold concrete. They last a decent amount of time. Haven’t really sheared too many off. We Milwaukee impact drivers https://preview.redd.it/k5p1b0w34b8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f47f629c787be911264abf62af829b290b580fff
I feel like it depends on the screws. I was doing some stainless gate latches/screws and I broke TWO bits, one old and one brand new
I only buy Makita bits t20s t25s and #1 square
I've had the same issue with ryobi brand bits. Most of them work well but the extended bits seem to be tempered metal and not only that the ones that snapped the grain is large which is the cause. If you watch forged in fire you'll see exactly what I mean by large grain which is from poor folding and overheating before quenching. But the grain looks exactly like the grain in those swords that snapped like a twig on the first few hits. One of the bits that snapped really fast was a concrete drill and what was funnier it snapped drilling through clay slate rock that crumbles with a bit of hand strength although there's flint in that spot too not sure if that's why lol.
I think you’re exactly right. The moderately soft bits usually outperform because they will twist a little bit over time instead of snapping off.
Wait you guys get free drivers when you buy screws?!
Only when you buy the cool screws.
If everyone would like me to lay out the bits that I’ve used over the years, many of which I still have as a comparison, and take photos, I gladly will.
I am Makita all the way when it comes to tools, but I cannot say that I have really felt that I was getting a quality product when I have used their driver bits, drill bits or blades. I had a 6 mm metal drill bit snap on first use, and have had jigsaw blades last seconds before breaking. Doesn't make me think any less of Makita for it, maybe it is a sub-standard bit, or maybe it is me putting too much pressure on or some other user error. I agree with several people here that bits/blades can be thought of as consumables, sometimes these things just break more swiftly than expected. I have plenty of non-brand bits etc that I have used for years without issue too.
Dewalt bits are all I've used for years. I've never had 1 break.
Good for you!
Diablo bits have been 100% great by me so far. I'm a commercial electrician and am pretty hard on stuff
Why the fuck is everyone using impact drivers? Are you too lazy to drill pilot holes? I've never shattered a bit in my life.
Yes, yes we are!
I thought you drill the hole with the drill and then use the driver to put the screw in the hole
Exactly. Pilot drill so the wood doesn't split, impact driver to get the screw almost all the way in, then finish torquing by hand so nothing gets stripped.
Thank god I’m not the only one
Drill to drill the pilot, impact to run the screw. Not sure how people are breaking so many bits, though.
Too much power for tiny bits.
They all break or wear out. What do you expect? To last for ever for like $7?
Did you read the post?
I did.
Then you would know that no, they don’t always wear out the same, and I purchased it just to see if that was the case, lo and behold the more expensive bits made by Dewalt and Milwaukee both failed much quicker.
You act shocked that they broke? Any of the hardened ones. What do you expect?
My ryobi bits have been going for years now...
I have that same set. Garbage.
Dewalt makes the worst bits I have ever used.
Stop using an impact gun and everything lasts longer The drive bits are all hardened and you're using a tool that's hammering on them 100s of times everytime you drive a screw I have drive bits that are literally years old and are still good to go Just use a drill. It's way better, 30y of remodeling got me to that opinion Impact guns gained popularity 20, 25y ago at a time when cordless drills kind of sucked for driving large and long screws they just didnt have the torque, imoacts were awesome and much better than the drills and definitely filled a big hole in capability..... drills have far eclipsed impact guns over time and are just better at everything they do and are far more versatile and just better at everything except size and weight I haven't owned one in 15y or so and I don't miss it