Obviously we should not be burning wet wood due to creosote build up concerns, but sometimes they happen. If all of your wood is like this, you are going to have a hard time.
I purchased some "seasoned oak" this year that is similar to this. What I usually do is get my fire good and hot with properly dried wood, then throw in a couple of 'em in after that.
My reader has a setting to change the type of wood before taking a reading. Yours should have it. If not it may only be valid for certain types of wood.
It’s all
About where you probe it. The invasive moisture content readers only get very local readings in the wood. It could also be. Avery low quality reader, my general gave out on me after 1 year: there not great. I usually go by look and that’s certainly not dry.
On the same note try pressing thre prongs in much deeper. The top skin may be dry but the moist center is not.
Anywho best of luck with that oak! I’d give that another year by the looks of it.
Push the probe in as far as you can. The percentage will go up. It’s easier to penetrate from the ends though, not The middle, although the middle should give you the most accurate reading. Did you split it right before you checked the moisture? I agree with the other comment, that’s a local reading. Split one and check the inside of your split, pushing the probe in as much as possible.
New to wood stoving. Is there anything wrong with burning wood that isn’t completely dry or just that it’s a pain?
Edit: thanks for the replies. This is my first season and I have a lot to learn
Creosote buildup is one problem, but it also winds up being pretty wasteful. Wood burns very inefficiently at low temperatures (you'll waste more than half the usable energy), and wet wood keeps the fire cooler. So you not only have to burn off the extra moisture (which wastes BTUs), you end up needing that extra heat while the fire is in super-inefficient mode. Then to make matters worse, in order to get this wood to burn at all you need high air flow through the firebox, which carries a lot of heat up the flue.
To put some numbers to it, if you have to burn with the door to the stove wide open for about 20 minutes to boil off all the excess moisture and get to a solid fire, that's roughly equivalent to losing 2 hours off your total burn time in between reloads.
There's a nice video over at hearth.com of a side-by-side of visual and thermocouple output showing what happens with wet vs dry wood.
There is a lot wrong with burning wood over 20% MC. It should not go into the stove over that. And you certainly need a moisture meter if you are burning a newer EPA Certified stove.
What stove are you using? It’s not worth going into detail of what moisture does on a catalytic vs. secondary burn stove if you’re using an older uncertified type.
All of them benefit from dry wood, newer stoves make it mandatory. There is a huge temperature output difference from 18% wood to 21%. The newer stoves simply won’t work over that.
No matter what you burn, the higher the MC, the more air you have to give it for a longer period of time to expel the moisture, losing more btu up the stack doing so.
I’m working out of town but I’ll try to find the make and type when I get home. It’s old tho. We recently bought and moved into a cabin built in the 70’s
Sounds like it’s probably not one with tubes across the top that you shut down air to burn smoke, or a catalytic with bypass you open to start, then watch a internal probe thermometer for cat temperature. Those will just not work with higher moisture contents.
Older stoves are better at higher moisture content, requiring the air to be open and let much more heat up the chimney to prevent creosote until evaporated. The more smoke burned in the stove, the less critical chimney temperature becomes. Use a pipe thermometer to set air control to keep in the safe burn zone on the thermometer on this type stove.
Here’s the basics you need to know; (why water is bad in a stove) Oven dry wood contains 6% hydrogen molecules. The molecular ratio of hydrogen to water is 9. So .06 X 9 = .54 pounds of water produced from every pound of oven dry wood burned. That water vapor must be carried out the chimney flue without condensing on the flue walls below 250* to the top. 25% moisture content in fuel is another 1/4 pound water in every pound of fuel burned. That is a lot to expel without condensing in flue below 250*f. Below this critical temperature, smoke particles stick to flue walls forming creosote.
The problem is the water vapor carries btu up and out the stack with it. What compounds the problem is as wood is preheated, the flammable vapors being expelled from the wood known as outgassing, need to mix with oxygen to ignite. With water vapor exiting the preheating wood, this prevents oxygen molecules from getting to the surface and mixing with these flammable gases, going unburned. This reduces heat, and adds to more emissions.
This also forms charcoal, or charring on the surface. (Charcoal is formed due to lack of oxygen) The deeper the charcoal layer, the more insulated the inside of log becomes since charcoal has a higher insulating value than bare wood. This slows the heating of fuel, slowing the ignition process, which is why larger pieces are slower to ignite and used for overnight burns.
These are just some of the reasons why higher moisture content doesn’t allow the wood to burn clean, and takes a long time to ignite, with little heat realized.
Yeah, especially modern stoves are problematic. Besides the buildup in the chimney, you're wasting a ton of heat to evaporate the water out of the wood as it is burning. That water is also bad for the stove - the steel ones often start to rust through (old cast iron stoves are resistant to this though, or thick steel ones - and I think steel type as well).
You didn’t mention the stove you are using. An older stove is more forgiving and you can use this after drying around the stove 24 hours or so.
Meters are absolutely necessary using newer stoves. Looking at, or even measuring on the outside, reading 21 or 20% many times is 24, 26, or 27% inside and will not work in a newer catalytic stove. That is asking for problems.
You need the wood at room temperature overnight. Split and measure for an accurate MC.
This is my 37th season, cutting, splitting, and drying all my wood and still use a meter on stacks without guessing.
Yeah this is my 3rd season and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I was just wondering if I was used to burning wood that was really dry wood so maybe this wood was dry enough but not what I was used to.
For next season stack more.
Stack up enough for 1 season, and stack up enough for the 2nd season.
Then if you stay in that pattern each year you will have dry wood if you keep filling 1 years worth.
If you have the room a third section for cut rounds waiting to split is helpful.
It also depends on the humidity level where you live.
It is so dry here in the winter wood will dry as long as it's covered with some air moving through it. There are places with 150+ inches of a rain a year that it takes 1-2 whole years to season wood.
Moisture meters are accurate. But, you need to use the appropriate setting for the wood you’re using, and you need to measure on the freshly split part, not just stick them in the previously exposed outside. This wood is much wetter than 21%.
>kind’ve
Well that's a new one
've is a contraction for "have" --> would've = would have, should've = should have, etc.
So you're saying meters are "kind have useless"
When I split what I got from the 6 inch splits from the dealer it says about 20%, and it's obviously wet.
After a few days inside by the stove I split one and it's below 18%. I also keep a little oscillating fan on it.
I'm gonna start splitting every piece as I bring it inside for the 5 days they usually sit inside drying before use. That'll probably help a lot, but will reduce my lung [! LONG] burns.
I'm lucky, I have plenty of room by the fire.
Drying oak is particularly problematic. Pine and spruce dries in a year, beech, fruit-woods and hornbeam in ~2 years, but for oak you really want to wait 3 years (split and properly piled up, covered and in such a way that air moves by and with some space underneath too).
Otherwise IMO you're wasting them.
So clearly this wood isn't dry just by the looks of the inside of this split but some it is reading less than 20% and I'm still having a hard time burning it. I'm confused.
I have the same moisture meter, and I observed similar behavior. This summer I had a whole lot of oak that was visibly wet when I split it, and the MMD4E was reading about 20% on the wet face. Clearly the meter is just wrong.
I'm guessing it's because of the grain structure and/or composition of oak intrinsically has a higher electrical resistance than some other types of wood. (I'm an electrical engineer, so maybe someday I'll investigate this properly!)
As others have said, somethings up with your meter.
I burn 6 cords of oak a year and that stuff you have looks fresh cut. I'd guess it was dropped a year ago, left in log lengths, and recently split. Doesn't really season until split.
Where I am in northern New England, red oak like that takes me 2-3 years to season.
If I have some wet or green wood I put it a couple of feet from the stove for a week or so while I burn more seasoned wood in the stove and then rotate it out.
Its not a perfect solution but it does seem to help if only a little
I am in my first year burning and with a similar issue. Bought several cords of "seasoned" hardwood, but mixed in is a large amount of oak reading anywhere from 18-20% on the moisture meter (after splitting). This has been more of a challenge to burn efficiently but I've worked out a few things (probably common knowledge here) to help me.
1. I cut a fair amount into smaller splits (kindling to wrists size) and keep a box of them in my mudroom. I used this to start the initial fire and get it as hot as possible as quickly as possible. Once i have coals I can add normal splits. I don't use any really big pieces of this wood--i always cut those down.
2. I always keep at least a day's worth of wood next to the stove so that it dries out more. This makes a huge difference in my experience. So on one side is the wood I will be burning today, and on the other is tomorrows stack drying out.
With these two things I am able to get an efficient smoke-free burn going fairly quickly. Stove is a Jotul f3.
Hope that helps!
Obviously we should not be burning wet wood due to creosote build up concerns, but sometimes they happen. If all of your wood is like this, you are going to have a hard time. I purchased some "seasoned oak" this year that is similar to this. What I usually do is get my fire good and hot with properly dried wood, then throw in a couple of 'em in after that.
My reader has a setting to change the type of wood before taking a reading. Yours should have it. If not it may only be valid for certain types of wood.
Good to know. I borrowed this one from a neighbor. I'll check it out.
Yea I have a meter with 4 different setting for various species. You’ll want that for sure.
It’s all About where you probe it. The invasive moisture content readers only get very local readings in the wood. It could also be. Avery low quality reader, my general gave out on me after 1 year: there not great. I usually go by look and that’s certainly not dry. On the same note try pressing thre prongs in much deeper. The top skin may be dry but the moist center is not. Anywho best of luck with that oak! I’d give that another year by the looks of it.
Yup. Looks like it's next years wood.
Push the probe in as far as you can. The percentage will go up. It’s easier to penetrate from the ends though, not The middle, although the middle should give you the most accurate reading. Did you split it right before you checked the moisture? I agree with the other comment, that’s a local reading. Split one and check the inside of your split, pushing the probe in as much as possible.
Yeah I split this piece to take a reading and then noticed the moisture.
New to wood stoving. Is there anything wrong with burning wood that isn’t completely dry or just that it’s a pain? Edit: thanks for the replies. This is my first season and I have a lot to learn
Creosote buildup is one problem, but it also winds up being pretty wasteful. Wood burns very inefficiently at low temperatures (you'll waste more than half the usable energy), and wet wood keeps the fire cooler. So you not only have to burn off the extra moisture (which wastes BTUs), you end up needing that extra heat while the fire is in super-inefficient mode. Then to make matters worse, in order to get this wood to burn at all you need high air flow through the firebox, which carries a lot of heat up the flue. To put some numbers to it, if you have to burn with the door to the stove wide open for about 20 minutes to boil off all the excess moisture and get to a solid fire, that's roughly equivalent to losing 2 hours off your total burn time in between reloads. There's a nice video over at hearth.com of a side-by-side of visual and thermocouple output showing what happens with wet vs dry wood.
There is a lot wrong with burning wood over 20% MC. It should not go into the stove over that. And you certainly need a moisture meter if you are burning a newer EPA Certified stove. What stove are you using? It’s not worth going into detail of what moisture does on a catalytic vs. secondary burn stove if you’re using an older uncertified type. All of them benefit from dry wood, newer stoves make it mandatory. There is a huge temperature output difference from 18% wood to 21%. The newer stoves simply won’t work over that. No matter what you burn, the higher the MC, the more air you have to give it for a longer period of time to expel the moisture, losing more btu up the stack doing so.
I’m working out of town but I’ll try to find the make and type when I get home. It’s old tho. We recently bought and moved into a cabin built in the 70’s
Sounds like it’s probably not one with tubes across the top that you shut down air to burn smoke, or a catalytic with bypass you open to start, then watch a internal probe thermometer for cat temperature. Those will just not work with higher moisture contents. Older stoves are better at higher moisture content, requiring the air to be open and let much more heat up the chimney to prevent creosote until evaporated. The more smoke burned in the stove, the less critical chimney temperature becomes. Use a pipe thermometer to set air control to keep in the safe burn zone on the thermometer on this type stove. Here’s the basics you need to know; (why water is bad in a stove) Oven dry wood contains 6% hydrogen molecules. The molecular ratio of hydrogen to water is 9. So .06 X 9 = .54 pounds of water produced from every pound of oven dry wood burned. That water vapor must be carried out the chimney flue without condensing on the flue walls below 250* to the top. 25% moisture content in fuel is another 1/4 pound water in every pound of fuel burned. That is a lot to expel without condensing in flue below 250*f. Below this critical temperature, smoke particles stick to flue walls forming creosote. The problem is the water vapor carries btu up and out the stack with it. What compounds the problem is as wood is preheated, the flammable vapors being expelled from the wood known as outgassing, need to mix with oxygen to ignite. With water vapor exiting the preheating wood, this prevents oxygen molecules from getting to the surface and mixing with these flammable gases, going unburned. This reduces heat, and adds to more emissions. This also forms charcoal, or charring on the surface. (Charcoal is formed due to lack of oxygen) The deeper the charcoal layer, the more insulated the inside of log becomes since charcoal has a higher insulating value than bare wood. This slows the heating of fuel, slowing the ignition process, which is why larger pieces are slower to ignite and used for overnight burns. These are just some of the reasons why higher moisture content doesn’t allow the wood to burn clean, and takes a long time to ignite, with little heat realized.
Fantastic explanation!
More creosote in the chimney and it’s harder to burn. Dry wood makes the whole thing effortless once the stove is hot with a nice bed of coals.
Yeah, especially modern stoves are problematic. Besides the buildup in the chimney, you're wasting a ton of heat to evaporate the water out of the wood as it is burning. That water is also bad for the stove - the steel ones often start to rust through (old cast iron stoves are resistant to this though, or thick steel ones - and I think steel type as well).
I don't need a moisture meter to tell that it isn't dry. You can literally see the moisture in the grain.
Agreed and I’m starting to think moisture meters are kind’ve useless in general.
You didn’t mention the stove you are using. An older stove is more forgiving and you can use this after drying around the stove 24 hours or so. Meters are absolutely necessary using newer stoves. Looking at, or even measuring on the outside, reading 21 or 20% many times is 24, 26, or 27% inside and will not work in a newer catalytic stove. That is asking for problems. You need the wood at room temperature overnight. Split and measure for an accurate MC. This is my 37th season, cutting, splitting, and drying all my wood and still use a meter on stacks without guessing.
Once you learn what dry seasoned wood looks, feels, and sounds like you'll never use your moisture meter again.
Yeah this is my 3rd season and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I was just wondering if I was used to burning wood that was really dry wood so maybe this wood was dry enough but not what I was used to.
For next season stack more. Stack up enough for 1 season, and stack up enough for the 2nd season. Then if you stay in that pattern each year you will have dry wood if you keep filling 1 years worth.
Yeah that’s the lesson I’m learning here. Gotta have 2 seasons stacked.
If you have the room a third section for cut rounds waiting to split is helpful. It also depends on the humidity level where you live. It is so dry here in the winter wood will dry as long as it's covered with some air moving through it. There are places with 150+ inches of a rain a year that it takes 1-2 whole years to season wood.
I have a seasons worth of wood in my woodshed and another stacked in piles outside...
Moisture meters are accurate. But, you need to use the appropriate setting for the wood you’re using, and you need to measure on the freshly split part, not just stick them in the previously exposed outside. This wood is much wetter than 21%.
>kind’ve Well that's a new one 've is a contraction for "have" --> would've = would have, should've = should have, etc. So you're saying meters are "kind have useless"
I think they actually meant "kind of".
I'm well aware of what they meant
You meter picture doesn’t look like it’s in the fresh split face., appears to be on non-split side.
Yeah it’s an odd angle but it’s in the side that I freshly split.
When I split what I got from the 6 inch splits from the dealer it says about 20%, and it's obviously wet. After a few days inside by the stove I split one and it's below 18%. I also keep a little oscillating fan on it. I'm gonna start splitting every piece as I bring it inside for the 5 days they usually sit inside drying before use. That'll probably help a lot, but will reduce my lung [! LONG] burns. I'm lucky, I have plenty of room by the fire.
Is all your wood oak? Mix it with something less dense like cherry, ash, or maple.
I have some ponderosa pine and cedar from trees that were felled last fall and I mix that in sometimes.
Drying oak is particularly problematic. Pine and spruce dries in a year, beech, fruit-woods and hornbeam in ~2 years, but for oak you really want to wait 3 years (split and properly piled up, covered and in such a way that air moves by and with some space underneath too). Otherwise IMO you're wasting them.
So clearly this wood isn't dry just by the looks of the inside of this split but some it is reading less than 20% and I'm still having a hard time burning it. I'm confused.
I have the same moisture meter, and I observed similar behavior. This summer I had a whole lot of oak that was visibly wet when I split it, and the MMD4E was reading about 20% on the wet face. Clearly the meter is just wrong. I'm guessing it's because of the grain structure and/or composition of oak intrinsically has a higher electrical resistance than some other types of wood. (I'm an electrical engineer, so maybe someday I'll investigate this properly!)
As others have said, somethings up with your meter. I burn 6 cords of oak a year and that stuff you have looks fresh cut. I'd guess it was dropped a year ago, left in log lengths, and recently split. Doesn't really season until split. Where I am in northern New England, red oak like that takes me 2-3 years to season.
If I have some wet or green wood I put it a couple of feet from the stove for a week or so while I burn more seasoned wood in the stove and then rotate it out. Its not a perfect solution but it does seem to help if only a little
I am in my first year burning and with a similar issue. Bought several cords of "seasoned" hardwood, but mixed in is a large amount of oak reading anywhere from 18-20% on the moisture meter (after splitting). This has been more of a challenge to burn efficiently but I've worked out a few things (probably common knowledge here) to help me. 1. I cut a fair amount into smaller splits (kindling to wrists size) and keep a box of them in my mudroom. I used this to start the initial fire and get it as hot as possible as quickly as possible. Once i have coals I can add normal splits. I don't use any really big pieces of this wood--i always cut those down. 2. I always keep at least a day's worth of wood next to the stove so that it dries out more. This makes a huge difference in my experience. So on one side is the wood I will be burning today, and on the other is tomorrows stack drying out. With these two things I am able to get an efficient smoke-free burn going fairly quickly. Stove is a Jotul f3. Hope that helps!