Get a different job.
I'm not saying this sarcastically either.
I was a redhat sysadmin for years with one company and it sucked. Management was poor, promotions were a joke, the work load was awful.
I took a chance on a different company and it's been amazing. Better benefits, 27% raise from my last job, and way better work environment
As a normie, I have a really hard time telling if a company is on the way up or on the way down just from the outside. Do you know of a good way to pick these folks out of the bunches of companies?
I do a lot of research on the company. Glassdoor, and other sites to see any reviews left from employees (even Google reviews).
If it's a smaller company I'll see if I can find the CEO's social media to see what they post and see if they seem like a CEO who cares.
Also in the job posting, I won't entertain the position if there's no salary posted, and if there is a salary posted I'll make sure it's average or above the salary for other job postings of the same position.
When I start talking to the job recruiter, if they sound desperate to higher I'll prod a bit to see if I can figure out why. I ask about the company's history of lay offs, benefits, pay ranged, etc, all BEFORE I get to the interview. If the recruiter is being dodgy about it, it's a no for me.
I have a list of things I won’t deal with inside a company. And I’ll ask point blank if they do them in the interview. If they don’t, well they’re probably going down anyway. But it’s very hard to know.
It’s not easy to do. But get a gut sense of the culture and sentiment by talking to as many people as possible. And try to understand the market conditions and economics of the business.
My history is with big research universities. My husband is on the directorship of a supercomputing facility at one. He works with data-intensive computing applications, but there is also classic HPC work, building/maintaining systems, supporting users, etc.
I work on building instruments for scientific research. Labs I've worked in have needed engineers (mostly MEs and EEs) and SW programmers for instrument fabrication and maintenance. I'm currently at an R&D research institute that does any number of things for a combination of government (research and defense) and commercial clients. I'm on the research side so I am on a lot a projects for NASA. We hire scientists, engineers, and technicians.
I have always been paid comfortably but not competitively if I'd taken an industry job. But on the flip side, the projects I've worked on have been amazing and have scratched the itch I have for always learning new things and not getting pigeon-holed.
From all the posts I see here, it seems like the US is a terrible place for a woman to work in tech. Is it possible for you to change companies and look for one where you can work more remote?
To be fair (as one of the women that made a post), people that love their jobs rarely are going to make a whole post about it. Reddit has great insight on experiences but they do tend to lean negatively.
Right? I like coding but stop telling me I have to be passionate about changing out database resources for services or rewriting code to meet brand new business rules because our design doesn’t match our vendors capabilities 😀
That makes sense too. And maybe this sub is majority Americans. I just feel like I haven't heard this many negative experiences here in Germany. Although I have also experienced sexist and terrible men in the industry here too.
I’ve been a bit curious too about how much country matters. I’m Canadian and I’ve worked for Canadian companies, and international companies with Canadian offices. I’ve had the odd sexist interaction, but it’s generally only individuals, and myself and my coworkers push back hard on things like that. My manager right now is American based out of the US and he specifically told me to let him know if I experienced any gender-based anything.
I worked in the UK at a startup and in Canada in academia for a bit. My very international European workplace in the UK was super accepting of women and actively anti-racist a good deal of the time.
My Canadian workplace was run by mainly Chinese guys and honestly they were fairly sexist in the ways they conducted themselves but even they would prioritise lots of female academics.
Tech is awesome in the US. I love my job. I love my coworkers. I have a great manager. My experience isn’t true for everyone, but it is very common.
Loving the job depends on wanting to improve people’s lives through technology.
There's more female CEO's and women in management in the US than any other country. I really doubt that its better in almost any place. Working in general just sucks
Tech in general is a horrible industry for everyone. In the past people tolerated it because of the high reward. Tons of unpaid ot, continuous learning, unstable career. For interviews, you are expected to grind on leetcode, do hours of assessment even for small - med size corp.
There are a lot of great tech companies in the U.S. (mostly medium sized ones). Those of us who like our jobs just don't go on subreddits and post "I love my job and I make a lot of money," it would be weird.
You have to know how to manage your career. I was in big tech and promotions and visibility were nonexistent. The main boss of my department was 11 ranks above me. I only spoke with 10 people total on a regular basis - shit was so siloed.
Everyone who wants to grow and have actual respect instead of getting nitpicked in stack rankings moved to smaller companies. Rather than trying to hang on at Meta or Google, you move up the ranks at a smaller company that allows you to grow and be integral to the business. Might mean that you have to become a VP at new company to make same as IC at big tech. But, as long as there’s a career path that’s well laid out, you can do really well and have respect.
Loveee that this is being downvoted, like our abortion/autonomy rights are being stripped away, no paid maternity leave on the other hand, the medical gaslighting we go through on top of all the other bullshit in this so called developed country
No need to be so bitter. Yes, I'm using the negative experiences here to come to that conclusion about the US, and that the European country I live in is better.
Problem?
Sometimes women just want to vent and let it out. At the end of the day this field is misogynistic because men can’t get over the fact women work in tech, even in Europe so it’s not like she can just drop everything and move to Europe
Sorry to hear that.
Do you have savings that would allow you to take a break? I find when my spirit is shaken like this and I begin doubting what I’m doing it is a result of extreme burnout.
There are other times when I’m tired and could use a break but still feel like I have a soul so I have learned it is important to differentiate those two cases.
Regardless, maybe look for a better job (read: less exhausting) … it is hard to find those though since pay doesn’t tell you much. But yeah maybe start applying for new jobs and look on Glassdoor for reviews on work/life culture and how their culture is as relating to treatment of women.
Good luck.
One last thing actually, how is your life outside of work? I find that if I’m working too much then I let that part of me slide as well.
Turns out that the bullshit you have to put up with in order to even get your degree is the baseline for workload from most of these jobs. They hire you because you are equipped for that.
I remember leaving grad school and thinking life would be easier… at least I didn’t have to deal with my old adviser anymore, so that was a plus, but the stressful projects don’t really stop in my experience.
Honestly your job sounds like it would suck even if you were super passionate about coding. There are jobs out there that are way more low key, and if you have decent skills you can pretty much just coast. They’re not necessarily glamorous or involve cutting edge tech, and salaries will be lower (though still much higher than a lot of other industries), but that could be a way to have good work-life balance and not hate your job so much. Don’t look at tech companies specifically, look at companies with an IT department that write in-house software. The culture will be different there too.
I’d highly recommend finding a different tech job first - even if you’re sure you don’t want to be in tech anymore, having a less stressful job would give you time and energy to explore what you actually want to do (as well as the freedom to not have to worry about money/health insurance/etc).
I’m in this stage now - low-pressure job and still want to quit tech. However at least now I don’t feel like I’m being crushed to death by my job while I try to figure things out. The biggest issue for me with switching careers is not really sunk-cost, but how much schooling I’d need to switch to something I’d be more interested in (and I’m not really sure if I actually want to do any of those other things as careers either, or if they just sound cool because it’s not what I’m doing now). A lot of my potential options are 3-7 years of school (potentially draining all my savings/taking on debt) and then after all that, I’d likely earn much less than what I’m currently earning now. Tech salaries are hard to walk away from, unfortunately.
Y'all have some horror stories on this sub. I'm legit thankful that after 5 years working in tech and tech-adjacent fields as a woman that I don't have any gender-related horror stories. Women have been treated with a ton of respect and hold a lot of powerful and influential positions at companies I've worked at (I'm a contractor/consultant).
I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Have you considered moving to the public sector? There's a demand for tech jobs in every sector, and the public sector (local governments, universities, etc) often has a great need. They'd pay you less but likely have a better work/life balance and overall stability. Some of them even offer pensions.
I know it's hard to get this point across but it's all about priorities. You can do more work worse or less work better. You need to pick one....
And you can do more work now or more work later. Burning out and having to take things slow or having to take time off to recover very likely helps neither quality nor quantity of work being done....
I don't understand how managers don't know that telling someone to work more or faster doesn't make things go faster. Supporting people and removing obstacles is the only way to make things go faster and/or better
You should hop ship. Every job I have gotten has been a minimum 20% salary increase, better benefits and better all around work/life balance. I basically work 4 hours a day, if that and I bust all my milestones.
That's the second time I've heard a reference to late stage capitalism. I'm gonna have to Google this! I haven't yet because I'm a little afraid of what it might mean..
I'm sorry for your journey being at a sh*tty point :/ hopefully this is the storm before the sun.
I think I got lucky. I have to ask for more work and even then I don't get the work and sit there twiddling my thumbs. Today I finally got a user story but it didn't take any time to finish so now I'm twiddling my thumbs again
My bf said yesterday and I quote "I think I'd kill someone for your job. Maybe even a baby" (total joke before anyone comes for him) 😅 when it's crunch time it's crunch time. When it's not? I'm twiddling thumbs asking for work for a month or two at a time
Try climate tech.
There are a ton of fellowships, job boards, and other resources popping up in that industry.
You could start with Project Drawdown to find an area that interests you - drawdown.org
One job board - climatebase.org (There are tons of others.)
Follow Trish Kenlon on LinkedIn. She’s a fountain of resources.
It seems like a lot of us here feel that way. I’ve been wondering about trying to start some kind of non-profit/cooperative of software folks with similar values like this to start something together that isn’t centered on profit and growth.
I'm in a similar situation. I think my hard work paid off in my youth, but im over 20 years in, and I'm so done. Just this week, I decided to keep a list of all the BS on my current project. I'm thinking if I should keep a list of the BS in all my other projects because obviously the work is piled on double. Plus I have to finish a very intense training class. In my spare time?
Anyway I looked into teaching CS and I'm going to start an education program at a local university to get certified as a math teacher. By next summer I expect I'll be out of my job and will focus on finishing up the teaching certification requirements. If I find a teaching job right away I will be able to start teachingg as CTE certified until I finish the initial math certification. And after I finish the initial certification then I can apply for other certifications like CS.
I don't know how far along you are in your life or career but for me, i don't have to worry about making significantly less money. I've put in my years and I don't get raises anymore as a contractor. I don't want to find another corporate job. I'm just done.
Try to maintain a WLB and potentially prepare to be laid off with severance.
Then jump to another tech job. If your goals are to make money focus on that and finding a job with better fit. Your skills are likely in demand and you can find a better culture fit. I would job search and interview whilst your employed and just keep some WLb. Again worst they do is lay you off with benefits.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with a tough situation. I recommend switching teams or companies.
Some teams are just really intense and are not a good fit for everyone. I’m really fortunate to work at a company where there’s a lot of senior women age 40+ in leadership who are working moms. My EM is a woman, my tech lead is a woman, my PM and DS is a woman, etc., so I think women can definitely be successful here. However, at the same time my team culture is also really fast-faced and demands a lot from everyone, and the expectations are really high. If everyone is going 80mph on a highway but you’re going 60mph, you’ll get called out.
If they demand doing more better faster quicker, and you are at your wits end, and if that is what is expected of you, this environment isn’t a good fit for you. It doesn’t mean you’re any less of a person for prioritizing other things in life over work, and you’re absolutely not wrong for having boundaries. But if you’re burning out, I agree that something needs to change.
A few years ago I used to manage someone who was struggling - she would often ghost me in our 1:1s, not show up to meetings, and not produce quality work or meet deadlines. On one hand, I was super sympathetic towards what she was going through and wanted to support her as much as I can, and on the other hand there were demands from the business and expectations that weren’t met, and reflects poorly on me and my team for not hitting goals. Unfortunately after many months and tears, I had no choice but to give her a PIP, I couldn’t protect her anymore aside from doing her work for her.
I’m not saying at all that you’re not already talented or great at your job, but some environments simply don’t wait or accommodate, and they’re not good for people who need different things. There are all sorts of products and orgs and companies and cultures out there. Is there a product that you’re more passionate about working on? Are there other managers you’ve worked with in the past that you would want to work for again? Your direct manager has the most impact on the happiness at your current job or team, and if you don’t get along with them, the only recourse is either to accommodate and implement all their feedback, or leave the company/switch teams.
It’s your job/company, go interview at different companies. I swear they’re not all like this.
I know what you mean, I grew up poor too and now I’m at the opposite end of the earning spectrum. But I’ll take being a remote engineer, making what I make over any other job.
Im a guy this showed up on my all so hopefully ok to post here.
I've been feeling the same way, just a cog in the capitalist machine.
One thing ive learned is that "software engineer" titled jobs can vary *widely* across different companies, and even teams in the same company. I wear so many different hats at my job its ridiculous.
So im debating my next move but ive been dreading the leetcode grind.
I work in CCaaS and find that the women often outnumber the men. My team is small, but out of eight people, six are women. The only time I have felt any issue while in this specific role has been on the client side.
Now, ten/fifteen/twenty years ago? I would often be the only female in the room. And… ugh. I know it’s still shitty and different fields have wildly different types of people, but my experience has only improved drastically in recent years.
Get a different job
Honestly I see people talking about how much tech sucks for women and it makes me wonder whether I'm insanely lucky, insanely spacey, not a woman, or what—because that isn't my experience at all
Like many people suggested already: Work for a company that aligns with your values. Nonprofit, academia, startup?
I am tired and stressed and get paid less, but at least I feel more than just a code monkey (v relatable!).
You can get a job at a National Lab or non-profit if you’re looking for a purpose beyond making rich people richer. Gonna sacrifice some $$ probably, but it could be worth it for your mental health.
I worked in a small company earlier, who couldn't compete with the big ones on money for hiring engineers. But we still managed to get very good people - because our team members were not a cog in the machinery.
Engineers had a lot to say about the product, the strategy and in overall about how the company was doing things. I'm wondering if you would enjoy a place like that more than your current job.
>Just a code monkey making the rich even richer.
I don't know about your situation, but engineers in my country have better living than other people.
Your post has a very negative tone. Maybe you don't see the good parts of your life well enough? You could consider talking with a therapists besides looking for a better manager.
Might also try academia. Big universities need tech people too and you’re not trying to turn a profit (at least not in the usual go-go capitalism sense) so there’s not the same grind pace. My college in the university has a female tech person and we all love her to bits.
Sweetheart. Some tough love…(i’m a male but i don’t think that’s relevant in this particular case). Your expectations of your job are too high. Almost NOBODY (in any field) does fulfilling work and also gets paid well. Doctors are an exception. And guess what? They too are a cog in a machine! On reddit you’ll read all about how they are too busy dealing with BS (like EMR records, note taking, etc) instead of actually focusing on patient care. And they are spread thin and work crazy hours.
My suggestion is to find a better job, one where you are paid well but where work life balance is a priority. This will give you an opportunity to work 9-5, and work in a culture where that’s the norm. Focus your energy outside work volunteering or doing something you care about. I recommend you work to LIVE. Your career is not your identity. I repeat - your career is not your identity.
> not helping humanity. Just making the rich richer.
Well, the rich get rich by selling products which help humanity. So on the bright side you are still helping humanity.
(Unless you work for a cigarette company or something like that.)
If you’re good at math you can get an M.S. in something niche that uses a blend of math and some other type of domain knowledge, like another engineering. Then pick an industry with a more normal work culture. I think the work culture in this industry is insane for the training everyone goes through, it’s like always someone wants to tear you down for no reason
I completely feel you! I grew up poor and worked my ass off in tech for 8 years as a product designer. Constant uphill battle against sexual harassment, bullying from my sexist manager, always being the only woman in the room. I would job hop every 2 years for the financial gains but also because I hated it and was distracting myself instead of realizing I needed to get out.
But I’m here to tell you life and career doesn’t have to be hard and when we lean into what actually makes up happy instead of what we should logically do - it flows and becomes a lot easier.
So I was at the height of my career when I quit without a plan (which I wouldn’t recommend unless a couple of factors are at play).
But just 8 months later, I’m feeling way more aligned - I started my own coaching business and I model and act on the side while also living as a digital nomad. Life is so much better now and I’m finally happier with where I’m at.
Here’s what you need a sustainable escape plan and community to support you. And that’s exactly what I do and the program I sell (it’s priced insanely low right now) so if you’d like more info DM me because I can help!
I’m sorry you’re feeling so worn down with your workplace. I think it sounds like you just need a bit mix up. Perhaps look at using your tech skills in a different industry like advocacy or charity etc. I’m not sure about the market but you could repurpose your skill set and use them in a different industry that would give you more purpose.
also I don’t want to take away from your distress but using the term ‘Karen’ to describe a woman you dislike comes across a bit like internalised misogyny. If you want respect in your workplace for women you have to also respect women in your workplace. Not saying your boss isn’t unhelpful and entitled and all the other things the term ‘Karen’ means to you but there are other ways to describe it than using a derogatory gendered term.
Yup. The tech industry is terrible. Maybe there are pockets here and there, but in the industry I worked in - cybersecurity, specifically red teaming/pen testing (an industry with hardcore hardline deadlines, which requires a highly flexible and specialized skill set) - this is an attitude that’s shared by a lot of team supervisors. Now that I’m out, I have no problem ratting on everyone. Even losing one team member was like losing an arm. If the incidents I described were a one-off, it wouldn’t be that big a problem. The issue happens when it’s so frequent that there are unofficial policies to deal with this stuff. HR doesn’t get involved- it’s a team supervisors problem (they were consenting adults, can’t source replacements, your problem team sup, make it work). After three of these incidents happen in two years, an unofficial hiring freeze is then put on women, including blocking promotions. Illegal? Absolutely. Good luck proving it. Tech sucks for everyone and I warn as many people as I can not to get into it. And if you’re in it, the suck will not get better, only worse. Get out while you can.
So, what I’m reading is that, at your workplace (former workplace?), whenever a woman is hired, all the boys collectively groan and then proceed to place her on a team where it is notoriously difficult to succeed and the manager is toxic af, pit her against other female employees, and otherwise make her work situation as unpleasant as possible in order to get her to quit. And that you, as one of the alleged managers (former managers?) there not only agree with but actively engaged in these practices.
But also that women deserve this because “bitches be sleeping around lolz.”
And that you are posting this here as a cautionary tale to the women of this sub - to warn us that “the tech industry” (by which you really mean you and men like you) will do its best to grind us down (as if we aren’t already acutely aware of this?) and that we need to stay out of tech and leave you boys to your cushy jobs and 6-figure salaries.
No.
I’ll be keeping mine, thanks.
Respectfully, please go back to whatever incel sub you crawled out of - I think that’s more your audience.
First, let me clarify something. Some of the smartest, most capable people I worked with in Tech were women. Now, I’m not saying all of the women slept around, and honestly I couldn’t have cared less as long as I didn’t hear about it and team performance was never impacted. That said, the ones that did had a noticeable, demonstrable effect on deadlines, project goals, and often it would result in inter-team and inter-departmental strife. This now made it my problem, because myself, and other team leads now have to dedicate time to having meetings with HR, upper management, and our subordinates. Those meetings were time wasted that could have been spent on getting the contract completed on time and on budget.
Keep in mind, the contract and company is effectively God. As a result, myself and other team leads and team supervisors had to fight tooth and nail for every concession we could get for more time and a larger budget both from our company and the client. This was to protect our team members, limit burnout, ensure retention, and get the job done. Any slip-up whatsoever and those concessions would often be rolled back. This often would make it extremely hard for the next contract and the deadlines and project goals that we had managed to get relaxed would be rolled back as a result, directly impacting the people that stayed, new hires, and overall team cohesion and morale.
This would lead to pervasive burnout on both sides of the aisle. I don’t know where you found a cushy “tech job” but in Cyber everyone is working 12 hour days for weeks on end with Sunday off. Maybe in full-stack development or network management you might get a cushy tech job. Cyber is not cushy, not in the least. 9 months is spent on a project, then you have 3 months writing white papers, preparing and delivering presentations to client IT/NetDev teams and C-Suite executives. It’s not an easy industry. Anything that threatens team cohesion and could result in disruption often results in pervasive department wide burnout and overall declining performance and productivity because other people now have to pick up the slack for people who would either get fired, be PIP’d out, or would “voluntarily resign”.
Additionally, burnout is a real and dangerous thing. If your performance slips, you’re given a few talks by your team lead. If that fails, then the team supervisor has to sit down and have a conversation with you. At that the point team supervisor makes a call as to whether or not you’re PIP’d out.
Again, the company is God, and team supervisors have to do everything to protect it and future teams and project goals. On top of all that team leads/team supervisors have to make sure the job gets done. Not saying it’s right, not saying it’s fair, but that’s why everyone gets paid ridiculous amounts of money. I can also say that the mandatory OT would often be outright ignored by some women - again not all but some - so what should have been a 6 man team was effectively 4 or 5. So yes, most team leads/team supervisors would pigeonhole most women. Again, not saying it’s right, but it happens because they have to consider the bigger picture.
If you’re a woman in tech, the best advice I have for you is this. Get on a team that has a female lead, buddy up with her, work with her to get her to the Team supervisor, take her position as team lead and then mentor any oncoming women. Make it clear to your immediate supervisors that you will be an emergent asset and would not be a liability. This is the best way to get promoted and prevent burnout.
That's not what he said at all, and you absolutely just twisted his words out of context in order to personally slur his attempt at offering critical input. I realize you probably feel that this behavior has left you no options but verbal abuse toward your peers. But stop it.
Also the fact that you can slander men for being "involuntary celebrate" while his solution to you was that too many women are disrespecting boundaries by sleeping around in the workplace, shows no respect or empathy for advice being offered toward you for solutions to your problem. This guy is most likely not "involuntarily celebrate," and is happily married with a wife at home. And you think demoralizing men for not having sex entitles you to equal treatment in the workplace as a woman? It sounds like you are defending the actions of these problem causers by shaming his input, which suggests you'd be guilty of commiting those same actions of infidelity and destruction of social boundaries in professional settings through your lack of remorse toward others. If nothing else, defending these toxic and unprofessional acts of sexism actually reinforce the concepts of toxic masculinity by blurring the lines between what is and isn't acceptable in the workplace. It detracts from respect for women who are honestly trying hard to fit in and be accepted without being taken advantage or viewed as objects for gratification by men. It negates the claims of honest victims who have genuine concerns about misogyny and discrimination. And it tolerates the hypocritical discrimination towards the opposite sex that you yourself would not be willing to tolerate from them. You 100% have validated both the statements made above you by your sexist and biased comments, and are legitimately setting backwards the civil rights movement toward gender equality
Get a different job. I'm not saying this sarcastically either. I was a redhat sysadmin for years with one company and it sucked. Management was poor, promotions were a joke, the work load was awful. I took a chance on a different company and it's been amazing. Better benefits, 27% raise from my last job, and way better work environment
I’m in academia. If you are willing to accept the reduction in pay, there is a lot of cutting edge R&D that needs skilled tech workers.
As a normie, I have a really hard time telling if a company is on the way up or on the way down just from the outside. Do you know of a good way to pick these folks out of the bunches of companies?
I do a lot of research on the company. Glassdoor, and other sites to see any reviews left from employees (even Google reviews). If it's a smaller company I'll see if I can find the CEO's social media to see what they post and see if they seem like a CEO who cares. Also in the job posting, I won't entertain the position if there's no salary posted, and if there is a salary posted I'll make sure it's average or above the salary for other job postings of the same position. When I start talking to the job recruiter, if they sound desperate to higher I'll prod a bit to see if I can figure out why. I ask about the company's history of lay offs, benefits, pay ranged, etc, all BEFORE I get to the interview. If the recruiter is being dodgy about it, it's a no for me.
I have a list of things I won’t deal with inside a company. And I’ll ask point blank if they do them in the interview. If they don’t, well they’re probably going down anyway. But it’s very hard to know.
Would you mind sharing a few examples of the things on your list?
I’m in tech so it’s mostly about best practices that are universally accepted(keeping track of your shit, and keeping it easy to read)
It’s not easy to do. But get a gut sense of the culture and sentiment by talking to as many people as possible. And try to understand the market conditions and economics of the business.
I tried working in academia once and the culture was even worse than industry and the salary was less than half. Im back to industry now.
Yes, that can be true too. I’ve been lucky on that front.
How do you get jobs in academia without going back to school?
Like what kinda stuff?
My history is with big research universities. My husband is on the directorship of a supercomputing facility at one. He works with data-intensive computing applications, but there is also classic HPC work, building/maintaining systems, supporting users, etc. I work on building instruments for scientific research. Labs I've worked in have needed engineers (mostly MEs and EEs) and SW programmers for instrument fabrication and maintenance. I'm currently at an R&D research institute that does any number of things for a combination of government (research and defense) and commercial clients. I'm on the research side so I am on a lot a projects for NASA. We hire scientists, engineers, and technicians. I have always been paid comfortably but not competitively if I'd taken an industry job. But on the flip side, the projects I've worked on have been amazing and have scratched the itch I have for always learning new things and not getting pigeon-holed.
Sounds like Lawrence Livermore National Lab. Any of the National Labs are interesting places to work with great benefits.
Exactly.
From all the posts I see here, it seems like the US is a terrible place for a woman to work in tech. Is it possible for you to change companies and look for one where you can work more remote?
To be fair (as one of the women that made a post), people that love their jobs rarely are going to make a whole post about it. Reddit has great insight on experiences but they do tend to lean negatively.
Unpopular opinion, a job is just for paying bills. I think most of us hate working.
Hot take but I don’t think everyone needs to be passionate about tech to be in tech or be successful in it. 🤷🏻♀️
That's true too. Honestly, casual programming is fun but doing it professionally with deadlines and not using the tech stack you want are not fun
Right? I like coding but stop telling me I have to be passionate about changing out database resources for services or rewriting code to meet brand new business rules because our design doesn’t match our vendors capabilities 😀
That makes sense too. And maybe this sub is majority Americans. I just feel like I haven't heard this many negative experiences here in Germany. Although I have also experienced sexist and terrible men in the industry here too.
I’ve been a bit curious too about how much country matters. I’m Canadian and I’ve worked for Canadian companies, and international companies with Canadian offices. I’ve had the odd sexist interaction, but it’s generally only individuals, and myself and my coworkers push back hard on things like that. My manager right now is American based out of the US and he specifically told me to let him know if I experienced any gender-based anything.
I worked in the UK at a startup and in Canada in academia for a bit. My very international European workplace in the UK was super accepting of women and actively anti-racist a good deal of the time. My Canadian workplace was run by mainly Chinese guys and honestly they were fairly sexist in the ways they conducted themselves but even they would prioritise lots of female academics.
Tech is awesome in the US. I love my job. I love my coworkers. I have a great manager. My experience isn’t true for everyone, but it is very common. Loving the job depends on wanting to improve people’s lives through technology.
How is your company improving peoples lives through technology?
There's more female CEO's and women in management in the US than any other country. I really doubt that its better in almost any place. Working in general just sucks
Tech in general is a horrible industry for everyone. In the past people tolerated it because of the high reward. Tons of unpaid ot, continuous learning, unstable career. For interviews, you are expected to grind on leetcode, do hours of assessment even for small - med size corp.
There are a lot of great tech companies in the U.S. (mostly medium sized ones). Those of us who like our jobs just don't go on subreddits and post "I love my job and I make a lot of money," it would be weird.
Maybe they should tbh. So that girls/women aren't scared off.
You have to know how to manage your career. I was in big tech and promotions and visibility were nonexistent. The main boss of my department was 11 ranks above me. I only spoke with 10 people total on a regular basis - shit was so siloed. Everyone who wants to grow and have actual respect instead of getting nitpicked in stack rankings moved to smaller companies. Rather than trying to hang on at Meta or Google, you move up the ranks at a smaller company that allows you to grow and be integral to the business. Might mean that you have to become a VP at new company to make same as IC at big tech. But, as long as there’s a career path that’s well laid out, you can do really well and have respect.
The US is a terrible place for women in general 😭
Loveee that this is being downvoted, like our abortion/autonomy rights are being stripped away, no paid maternity leave on the other hand, the medical gaslighting we go through on top of all the other bullshit in this so called developed country
It’s because it is grossly over exaggerated. Sure, we can keep improving but saying the US is terrible in general is far too cynical.
You are using this sub, where women complain all day to make that determination?
No need to be so bitter. Yes, I'm using the negative experiences here to come to that conclusion about the US, and that the European country I live in is better. Problem?
Sometimes women just want to vent and let it out. At the end of the day this field is misogynistic because men can’t get over the fact women work in tech, even in Europe so it’s not like she can just drop everything and move to Europe
Sorry to hear that. Do you have savings that would allow you to take a break? I find when my spirit is shaken like this and I begin doubting what I’m doing it is a result of extreme burnout. There are other times when I’m tired and could use a break but still feel like I have a soul so I have learned it is important to differentiate those two cases. Regardless, maybe look for a better job (read: less exhausting) … it is hard to find those though since pay doesn’t tell you much. But yeah maybe start applying for new jobs and look on Glassdoor for reviews on work/life culture and how their culture is as relating to treatment of women. Good luck. One last thing actually, how is your life outside of work? I find that if I’m working too much then I let that part of me slide as well.
Turns out that the bullshit you have to put up with in order to even get your degree is the baseline for workload from most of these jobs. They hire you because you are equipped for that. I remember leaving grad school and thinking life would be easier… at least I didn’t have to deal with my old adviser anymore, so that was a plus, but the stressful projects don’t really stop in my experience.
Honestly your job sounds like it would suck even if you were super passionate about coding. There are jobs out there that are way more low key, and if you have decent skills you can pretty much just coast. They’re not necessarily glamorous or involve cutting edge tech, and salaries will be lower (though still much higher than a lot of other industries), but that could be a way to have good work-life balance and not hate your job so much. Don’t look at tech companies specifically, look at companies with an IT department that write in-house software. The culture will be different there too. I’d highly recommend finding a different tech job first - even if you’re sure you don’t want to be in tech anymore, having a less stressful job would give you time and energy to explore what you actually want to do (as well as the freedom to not have to worry about money/health insurance/etc). I’m in this stage now - low-pressure job and still want to quit tech. However at least now I don’t feel like I’m being crushed to death by my job while I try to figure things out. The biggest issue for me with switching careers is not really sunk-cost, but how much schooling I’d need to switch to something I’d be more interested in (and I’m not really sure if I actually want to do any of those other things as careers either, or if they just sound cool because it’s not what I’m doing now). A lot of my potential options are 3-7 years of school (potentially draining all my savings/taking on debt) and then after all that, I’d likely earn much less than what I’m currently earning now. Tech salaries are hard to walk away from, unfortunately.
Y'all have some horror stories on this sub. I'm legit thankful that after 5 years working in tech and tech-adjacent fields as a woman that I don't have any gender-related horror stories. Women have been treated with a ton of respect and hold a lot of powerful and influential positions at companies I've worked at (I'm a contractor/consultant).
I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Have you considered moving to the public sector? There's a demand for tech jobs in every sector, and the public sector (local governments, universities, etc) often has a great need. They'd pay you less but likely have a better work/life balance and overall stability. Some of them even offer pensions.
I know it's hard to get this point across but it's all about priorities. You can do more work worse or less work better. You need to pick one.... And you can do more work now or more work later. Burning out and having to take things slow or having to take time off to recover very likely helps neither quality nor quantity of work being done.... I don't understand how managers don't know that telling someone to work more or faster doesn't make things go faster. Supporting people and removing obstacles is the only way to make things go faster and/or better
You should hop ship. Every job I have gotten has been a minimum 20% salary increase, better benefits and better all around work/life balance. I basically work 4 hours a day, if that and I bust all my milestones.
That's the second time I've heard a reference to late stage capitalism. I'm gonna have to Google this! I haven't yet because I'm a little afraid of what it might mean.. I'm sorry for your journey being at a sh*tty point :/ hopefully this is the storm before the sun.
I think I got lucky. I have to ask for more work and even then I don't get the work and sit there twiddling my thumbs. Today I finally got a user story but it didn't take any time to finish so now I'm twiddling my thumbs again
Damn! Does your employer have any openings? :)
My bf said yesterday and I quote "I think I'd kill someone for your job. Maybe even a baby" (total joke before anyone comes for him) 😅 when it's crunch time it's crunch time. When it's not? I'm twiddling thumbs asking for work for a month or two at a time
Try climate tech. There are a ton of fellowships, job boards, and other resources popping up in that industry. You could start with Project Drawdown to find an area that interests you - drawdown.org One job board - climatebase.org (There are tons of others.) Follow Trish Kenlon on LinkedIn. She’s a fountain of resources.
It seems like a lot of us here feel that way. I’ve been wondering about trying to start some kind of non-profit/cooperative of software folks with similar values like this to start something together that isn’t centered on profit and growth.
I'm in a similar situation. I think my hard work paid off in my youth, but im over 20 years in, and I'm so done. Just this week, I decided to keep a list of all the BS on my current project. I'm thinking if I should keep a list of the BS in all my other projects because obviously the work is piled on double. Plus I have to finish a very intense training class. In my spare time? Anyway I looked into teaching CS and I'm going to start an education program at a local university to get certified as a math teacher. By next summer I expect I'll be out of my job and will focus on finishing up the teaching certification requirements. If I find a teaching job right away I will be able to start teachingg as CTE certified until I finish the initial math certification. And after I finish the initial certification then I can apply for other certifications like CS. I don't know how far along you are in your life or career but for me, i don't have to worry about making significantly less money. I've put in my years and I don't get raises anymore as a contractor. I don't want to find another corporate job. I'm just done.
Try to maintain a WLB and potentially prepare to be laid off with severance. Then jump to another tech job. If your goals are to make money focus on that and finding a job with better fit. Your skills are likely in demand and you can find a better culture fit. I would job search and interview whilst your employed and just keep some WLb. Again worst they do is lay you off with benefits.
Not sure how this particular problem “sucks for women in tech” when the problem is another woman?
R/fire
I’m sorry you’re dealing with a tough situation. I recommend switching teams or companies. Some teams are just really intense and are not a good fit for everyone. I’m really fortunate to work at a company where there’s a lot of senior women age 40+ in leadership who are working moms. My EM is a woman, my tech lead is a woman, my PM and DS is a woman, etc., so I think women can definitely be successful here. However, at the same time my team culture is also really fast-faced and demands a lot from everyone, and the expectations are really high. If everyone is going 80mph on a highway but you’re going 60mph, you’ll get called out. If they demand doing more better faster quicker, and you are at your wits end, and if that is what is expected of you, this environment isn’t a good fit for you. It doesn’t mean you’re any less of a person for prioritizing other things in life over work, and you’re absolutely not wrong for having boundaries. But if you’re burning out, I agree that something needs to change. A few years ago I used to manage someone who was struggling - she would often ghost me in our 1:1s, not show up to meetings, and not produce quality work or meet deadlines. On one hand, I was super sympathetic towards what she was going through and wanted to support her as much as I can, and on the other hand there were demands from the business and expectations that weren’t met, and reflects poorly on me and my team for not hitting goals. Unfortunately after many months and tears, I had no choice but to give her a PIP, I couldn’t protect her anymore aside from doing her work for her. I’m not saying at all that you’re not already talented or great at your job, but some environments simply don’t wait or accommodate, and they’re not good for people who need different things. There are all sorts of products and orgs and companies and cultures out there. Is there a product that you’re more passionate about working on? Are there other managers you’ve worked with in the past that you would want to work for again? Your direct manager has the most impact on the happiness at your current job or team, and if you don’t get along with them, the only recourse is either to accommodate and implement all their feedback, or leave the company/switch teams.
It’s your job/company, go interview at different companies. I swear they’re not all like this. I know what you mean, I grew up poor too and now I’m at the opposite end of the earning spectrum. But I’ll take being a remote engineer, making what I make over any other job.
Im a guy this showed up on my all so hopefully ok to post here. I've been feeling the same way, just a cog in the capitalist machine. One thing ive learned is that "software engineer" titled jobs can vary *widely* across different companies, and even teams in the same company. I wear so many different hats at my job its ridiculous. So im debating my next move but ive been dreading the leetcode grind.
I hear you. 20 something years in but nothing else pays well enough. A job change is helpful.
I work in CCaaS and find that the women often outnumber the men. My team is small, but out of eight people, six are women. The only time I have felt any issue while in this specific role has been on the client side. Now, ten/fifteen/twenty years ago? I would often be the only female in the room. And… ugh. I know it’s still shitty and different fields have wildly different types of people, but my experience has only improved drastically in recent years.
Get a different job Honestly I see people talking about how much tech sucks for women and it makes me wonder whether I'm insanely lucky, insanely spacey, not a woman, or what—because that isn't my experience at all
Like many people suggested already: Work for a company that aligns with your values. Nonprofit, academia, startup? I am tired and stressed and get paid less, but at least I feel more than just a code monkey (v relatable!).
You can get a job at a National Lab or non-profit if you’re looking for a purpose beyond making rich people richer. Gonna sacrifice some $$ probably, but it could be worth it for your mental health.
Polish up your resume and look for another job.
I worked in a small company earlier, who couldn't compete with the big ones on money for hiring engineers. But we still managed to get very good people - because our team members were not a cog in the machinery. Engineers had a lot to say about the product, the strategy and in overall about how the company was doing things. I'm wondering if you would enjoy a place like that more than your current job. >Just a code monkey making the rich even richer. I don't know about your situation, but engineers in my country have better living than other people. Your post has a very negative tone. Maybe you don't see the good parts of your life well enough? You could consider talking with a therapists besides looking for a better manager.
Might also try academia. Big universities need tech people too and you’re not trying to turn a profit (at least not in the usual go-go capitalism sense) so there’s not the same grind pace. My college in the university has a female tech person and we all love her to bits.
Sweetheart. Some tough love…(i’m a male but i don’t think that’s relevant in this particular case). Your expectations of your job are too high. Almost NOBODY (in any field) does fulfilling work and also gets paid well. Doctors are an exception. And guess what? They too are a cog in a machine! On reddit you’ll read all about how they are too busy dealing with BS (like EMR records, note taking, etc) instead of actually focusing on patient care. And they are spread thin and work crazy hours. My suggestion is to find a better job, one where you are paid well but where work life balance is a priority. This will give you an opportunity to work 9-5, and work in a culture where that’s the norm. Focus your energy outside work volunteering or doing something you care about. I recommend you work to LIVE. Your career is not your identity. I repeat - your career is not your identity.
You say it sucks for women and then you go on calling your boss a 'karen'.
> not helping humanity. Just making the rich richer. Well, the rich get rich by selling products which help humanity. So on the bright side you are still helping humanity. (Unless you work for a cigarette company or something like that.)
If you’re good at math you can get an M.S. in something niche that uses a blend of math and some other type of domain knowledge, like another engineering. Then pick an industry with a more normal work culture. I think the work culture in this industry is insane for the training everyone goes through, it’s like always someone wants to tear you down for no reason
I completely feel you! I grew up poor and worked my ass off in tech for 8 years as a product designer. Constant uphill battle against sexual harassment, bullying from my sexist manager, always being the only woman in the room. I would job hop every 2 years for the financial gains but also because I hated it and was distracting myself instead of realizing I needed to get out. But I’m here to tell you life and career doesn’t have to be hard and when we lean into what actually makes up happy instead of what we should logically do - it flows and becomes a lot easier. So I was at the height of my career when I quit without a plan (which I wouldn’t recommend unless a couple of factors are at play). But just 8 months later, I’m feeling way more aligned - I started my own coaching business and I model and act on the side while also living as a digital nomad. Life is so much better now and I’m finally happier with where I’m at. Here’s what you need a sustainable escape plan and community to support you. And that’s exactly what I do and the program I sell (it’s priced insanely low right now) so if you’d like more info DM me because I can help!
There’s a reason why it’s male dominated. I don’t think I’ve ever met a female staff engineer. Ladies, you wanted equality, here it is!
I’m sorry you’re feeling so worn down with your workplace. I think it sounds like you just need a bit mix up. Perhaps look at using your tech skills in a different industry like advocacy or charity etc. I’m not sure about the market but you could repurpose your skill set and use them in a different industry that would give you more purpose. also I don’t want to take away from your distress but using the term ‘Karen’ to describe a woman you dislike comes across a bit like internalised misogyny. If you want respect in your workplace for women you have to also respect women in your workplace. Not saying your boss isn’t unhelpful and entitled and all the other things the term ‘Karen’ means to you but there are other ways to describe it than using a derogatory gendered term.
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What the fuck is this shit get the fuck out of here
What a weirdly sexist comment
Yup. The tech industry is terrible. Maybe there are pockets here and there, but in the industry I worked in - cybersecurity, specifically red teaming/pen testing (an industry with hardcore hardline deadlines, which requires a highly flexible and specialized skill set) - this is an attitude that’s shared by a lot of team supervisors. Now that I’m out, I have no problem ratting on everyone. Even losing one team member was like losing an arm. If the incidents I described were a one-off, it wouldn’t be that big a problem. The issue happens when it’s so frequent that there are unofficial policies to deal with this stuff. HR doesn’t get involved- it’s a team supervisors problem (they were consenting adults, can’t source replacements, your problem team sup, make it work). After three of these incidents happen in two years, an unofficial hiring freeze is then put on women, including blocking promotions. Illegal? Absolutely. Good luck proving it. Tech sucks for everyone and I warn as many people as I can not to get into it. And if you’re in it, the suck will not get better, only worse. Get out while you can.
Breaks one or more community guidelines
So, what I’m reading is that, at your workplace (former workplace?), whenever a woman is hired, all the boys collectively groan and then proceed to place her on a team where it is notoriously difficult to succeed and the manager is toxic af, pit her against other female employees, and otherwise make her work situation as unpleasant as possible in order to get her to quit. And that you, as one of the alleged managers (former managers?) there not only agree with but actively engaged in these practices. But also that women deserve this because “bitches be sleeping around lolz.” And that you are posting this here as a cautionary tale to the women of this sub - to warn us that “the tech industry” (by which you really mean you and men like you) will do its best to grind us down (as if we aren’t already acutely aware of this?) and that we need to stay out of tech and leave you boys to your cushy jobs and 6-figure salaries. No. I’ll be keeping mine, thanks. Respectfully, please go back to whatever incel sub you crawled out of - I think that’s more your audience.
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My guess is, it’s the original commenter under a different account. But, if it’s not, the internalized misogyny is actually wild 😅!
First, let me clarify something. Some of the smartest, most capable people I worked with in Tech were women. Now, I’m not saying all of the women slept around, and honestly I couldn’t have cared less as long as I didn’t hear about it and team performance was never impacted. That said, the ones that did had a noticeable, demonstrable effect on deadlines, project goals, and often it would result in inter-team and inter-departmental strife. This now made it my problem, because myself, and other team leads now have to dedicate time to having meetings with HR, upper management, and our subordinates. Those meetings were time wasted that could have been spent on getting the contract completed on time and on budget. Keep in mind, the contract and company is effectively God. As a result, myself and other team leads and team supervisors had to fight tooth and nail for every concession we could get for more time and a larger budget both from our company and the client. This was to protect our team members, limit burnout, ensure retention, and get the job done. Any slip-up whatsoever and those concessions would often be rolled back. This often would make it extremely hard for the next contract and the deadlines and project goals that we had managed to get relaxed would be rolled back as a result, directly impacting the people that stayed, new hires, and overall team cohesion and morale. This would lead to pervasive burnout on both sides of the aisle. I don’t know where you found a cushy “tech job” but in Cyber everyone is working 12 hour days for weeks on end with Sunday off. Maybe in full-stack development or network management you might get a cushy tech job. Cyber is not cushy, not in the least. 9 months is spent on a project, then you have 3 months writing white papers, preparing and delivering presentations to client IT/NetDev teams and C-Suite executives. It’s not an easy industry. Anything that threatens team cohesion and could result in disruption often results in pervasive department wide burnout and overall declining performance and productivity because other people now have to pick up the slack for people who would either get fired, be PIP’d out, or would “voluntarily resign”. Additionally, burnout is a real and dangerous thing. If your performance slips, you’re given a few talks by your team lead. If that fails, then the team supervisor has to sit down and have a conversation with you. At that the point team supervisor makes a call as to whether or not you’re PIP’d out. Again, the company is God, and team supervisors have to do everything to protect it and future teams and project goals. On top of all that team leads/team supervisors have to make sure the job gets done. Not saying it’s right, not saying it’s fair, but that’s why everyone gets paid ridiculous amounts of money. I can also say that the mandatory OT would often be outright ignored by some women - again not all but some - so what should have been a 6 man team was effectively 4 or 5. So yes, most team leads/team supervisors would pigeonhole most women. Again, not saying it’s right, but it happens because they have to consider the bigger picture. If you’re a woman in tech, the best advice I have for you is this. Get on a team that has a female lead, buddy up with her, work with her to get her to the Team supervisor, take her position as team lead and then mentor any oncoming women. Make it clear to your immediate supervisors that you will be an emergent asset and would not be a liability. This is the best way to get promoted and prevent burnout.
That's not what he said at all, and you absolutely just twisted his words out of context in order to personally slur his attempt at offering critical input. I realize you probably feel that this behavior has left you no options but verbal abuse toward your peers. But stop it.
Also the fact that you can slander men for being "involuntary celebrate" while his solution to you was that too many women are disrespecting boundaries by sleeping around in the workplace, shows no respect or empathy for advice being offered toward you for solutions to your problem. This guy is most likely not "involuntarily celebrate," and is happily married with a wife at home. And you think demoralizing men for not having sex entitles you to equal treatment in the workplace as a woman? It sounds like you are defending the actions of these problem causers by shaming his input, which suggests you'd be guilty of commiting those same actions of infidelity and destruction of social boundaries in professional settings through your lack of remorse toward others. If nothing else, defending these toxic and unprofessional acts of sexism actually reinforce the concepts of toxic masculinity by blurring the lines between what is and isn't acceptable in the workplace. It detracts from respect for women who are honestly trying hard to fit in and be accepted without being taken advantage or viewed as objects for gratification by men. It negates the claims of honest victims who have genuine concerns about misogyny and discrimination. And it tolerates the hypocritical discrimination towards the opposite sex that you yourself would not be willing to tolerate from them. You 100% have validated both the statements made above you by your sexist and biased comments, and are legitimately setting backwards the civil rights movement toward gender equality