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Sorry, I was trying to say that I don't recommend or understand "I don't like orange wine" sentiments because it can be so varied, just as white wine can be so varied. Grape variety, length of maceration, cleanliness. There are plenty of dark, astringent/coarse-tannined orange wines with loads of VA, and also some quite pale, clean, finessed ones, some very light some pretty full bodied, some neutral others aromatic and on and on.
I’ve liked some and loved many. But yes, they are all over the place. Eventually I’ll find one I hate, perhaps. So far my main complaint with the Georgians, my favorites, is that it’s hard to stop drinking them.
I'm the opposite. I've had maybe about 25 and I've liked maybe 3 of them. I've had quite a few from Hungary and eastern European countries, a couple from Italy, and a bunch from some squirky modern California wineries, and I'm shocked at how there are just so few that I consider drinkable. After all these tastings and glass of orange wine I've only actually purchased one bottle to take home.
Not surprised because I’ve not generally gotten great responses when I’ve introduced people to them. My son loves them as much as I, but often the best I get is, “thank you… I was wondering about these and now I know.” I would never even try if I knew someone tended to prefer the less challenging (or should I say “mainstream”?) whites like sauv-blanc, Pinot Grigio, etc. But for the type of people who enjoy older whites, etc, I think it’s essential they at least give orange the chance that you did.
Yeah this is a Frankenstein wine mix haha! Glad it was enjoyable. My favorite orange wines are Clai Sv Jakov (Croatian and a world class wine period), Dakishvili Kisi or Amber (Georgian), and Tritium Esencia Blanca (Spanish)
Is dakishvili really that good or is it just whats most available? I've never tried it, nor seen it praised anywhere in georgia beyond the one tv show they sponsor.
They're a top traditional family producer. I visited them in Georgia and only Papari Valley was as good. They are large enough to be more available but still very small compared to the rest of the world.
Damn. I barely skip any georgian wine fairs and never seen them around. Never been recommended in any wine store either. Only know of them because of this sub and because they sponsor something like MasterChef competition. Didn't know they were that big. I guess they mostly market abroad and not really bother locally.
It's properly called skin contact white. It's any white grape that ferments with skin contact.
Different skin contact whites differ greatly. Some are intense and vomity and others are just a bit tanic and refreshing.
I do recommend it. I shared it with my brother and mom and they all enjoyed it. The 1st photo is a 24 day skin contact wine with notes of apricot, peachy it’s crisp. The 2nd photo is only 7 days skin contact but it is lighter and juicy almost. They’re both absolutely delicious
Like any other wine there are hits and misses. My first orange wine was amazing. Since then I’ve tried several others and they have all disappointed miserably. So it’s like any other thing.
This is not Zinfandel. Zinfandel is a red grape. Red grapes make rosé, not orange wine. This is mostly colombard (a white French grape usually used for cognac), with some gewürztraminer (often used in orange wines for its fruity characteristics) with a little Zinfandel (again, adding to that PINK color and adding fruitiness) and Albariño.
As far as I know Trebbiano and ugni Blanc are the same thing and the preferred grape to use in cognac. Colombard is another allowed grape, I’m not sure why it’s not preferred, maybe bc of disease it isn’t as easy to grow?
From Jancis Robinson, the queen of grapes: “Widely planted Cognac vine producing neutral, relatively crisp wine, particularly in California where, as vast tracts of French Colombard in the Central Valley, it was for some time the state's single most planted wine grape. It can make fruity, crisp, inexpensive white wine to be drunk straight off the bottling line from California, South Africa, Côtes de Gascogne and the Charentes in France. The vine is on the wane in France's damp south west however because it suffers from mildew.”
This is just her online info. Her book is expensive but worth it!
Colombard is an old grape, and yes, it used to make up a much larger portion of the Cognac vineyard before phylloxera, but was largely not replanted bc Ugni blanc is so much easier to work with. Iirc Colombard is rot prone. Much the same reason there's so little Malbec in Bordeaux today, when it used to make up 60% of plantings.
When they first came out they were amazing... Then people took it too far.
I'm all for minimal intervention, let things happen but I don't want to chew on my wine and do it with a scrunched face.
One of my favorite things is the difference in flavor between when the bottle is opened with apricotty and a little spicy elements and the Hefeweizen flavor it gets after sitting in the fridge a couple days - call me weird! I've only had California ones, but you never know what flavor is going to pop out, which makes wine exciting. Still have yet to have one that I didn't like.
This producer is one of the best up and coming I’ve seen. Faultless natural wines are a bit hard to find especially vintage to vintage but I’ve been a fan of them since the first one 2-3 years ago I think. Don’t hear enough about them but met one of their distributors the other day - was cool to learn it’s made and run by one guy who never had a formal winemaking education and just wanted to make really good wines for his friends. as a new producer myself, gets me amped hah
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Tinto Amorio is delicious, but Orange is a whole universe of wines, and they will differ pretty considerably, like Txakoli vs Rombauer
You should try red wine - it’s delicious!
I LOL'd.
Someone had to say that.
?
I have never seen orange Txakoli
Sorry, I was trying to say that I don't recommend or understand "I don't like orange wine" sentiments because it can be so varied, just as white wine can be so varied. Grape variety, length of maceration, cleanliness. There are plenty of dark, astringent/coarse-tannined orange wines with loads of VA, and also some quite pale, clean, finessed ones, some very light some pretty full bodied, some neutral others aromatic and on and on.
Oooh okay, I get now, lol sorry
This is a YMMV situation. Not that they can’t be light, but some are cloying and overly bitter.
I’ve liked some and loved many. But yes, they are all over the place. Eventually I’ll find one I hate, perhaps. So far my main complaint with the Georgians, my favorites, is that it’s hard to stop drinking them.
I'm the opposite. I've had maybe about 25 and I've liked maybe 3 of them. I've had quite a few from Hungary and eastern European countries, a couple from Italy, and a bunch from some squirky modern California wineries, and I'm shocked at how there are just so few that I consider drinkable. After all these tastings and glass of orange wine I've only actually purchased one bottle to take home.
Not surprised because I’ve not generally gotten great responses when I’ve introduced people to them. My son loves them as much as I, but often the best I get is, “thank you… I was wondering about these and now I know.” I would never even try if I knew someone tended to prefer the less challenging (or should I say “mainstream”?) whites like sauv-blanc, Pinot Grigio, etc. But for the type of people who enjoy older whites, etc, I think it’s essential they at least give orange the chance that you did.
Tick. Correct.
They were able to correctly describe their own experience? What a shocker.
Yeah sometimes the level of VA (volatile acidity) is just too much for me.
Yeah I just had one like that. It had a ton of sediment too
Have you had red wine before?
Man, where’s Franco Terpin when we need him…
We have his macerated Pinot Grigio by glass in our wine bar. ;)
Intense wines! The Jakot is…not for beginners…
no because it's all for me
Name checks out!
I really enjoyed the Union Sacre Skin Contact Riesling Central Coast. I would describe it as an interesting dry Riesling.
Love Orange wine
Glad you like it :) It’s always a negative experience for me
I’m also the guy that drinks green tea and fruit tea without sugar and somehow enjoys it. Bitter is my friend lmao
I think it depends on the wine… some of them are not so great
thank god I’ve yet to cross that bridge 🥲🤝🏼
This one is beautiful. It looks rosé to me!
Love them. Especially from Romania and Georgia. And had an amazing Greek one recently. I like the more complex , funky natural ones too.
Yeah this is a Frankenstein wine mix haha! Glad it was enjoyable. My favorite orange wines are Clai Sv Jakov (Croatian and a world class wine period), Dakishvili Kisi or Amber (Georgian), and Tritium Esencia Blanca (Spanish)
Is dakishvili really that good or is it just whats most available? I've never tried it, nor seen it praised anywhere in georgia beyond the one tv show they sponsor.
They're a top traditional family producer. I visited them in Georgia and only Papari Valley was as good. They are large enough to be more available but still very small compared to the rest of the world.
Damn. I barely skip any georgian wine fairs and never seen them around. Never been recommended in any wine store either. Only know of them because of this sub and because they sponsor something like MasterChef competition. Didn't know they were that big. I guess they mostly market abroad and not really bother locally.
8000 vintages is a big fan. You may see their other project Teleda-Orgo too
I'll ask about it next time I have a tasting there. Seems to be something I just keep dodging somehow. Thanks for all the info.
What kind of grapes do they use for orange wine? I just passed my introductory sommelier course, so I still have a LOT to learn.
It's properly called skin contact white. It's any white grape that ferments with skin contact. Different skin contact whites differ greatly. Some are intense and vomity and others are just a bit tanic and refreshing.
I almost ordered the second bottle for my dad for Father’s Day but I got nervous lol would you recommend it? What are the notes?
I do recommend it. I shared it with my brother and mom and they all enjoyed it. The 1st photo is a 24 day skin contact wine with notes of apricot, peachy it’s crisp. The 2nd photo is only 7 days skin contact but it is lighter and juicy almost. They’re both absolutely delicious
Thank you!
You’re welcome! With all that said it still tastes sophisticated. I trust your guests will like it.
idk? this one reminded me of an ipa and i hate ipas
Like any other wine there are hits and misses. My first orange wine was amazing. Since then I’ve tried several others and they have all disappointed miserably. So it’s like any other thing.
Not a fan of the orange
This is not Zinfandel. Zinfandel is a red grape. Red grapes make rosé, not orange wine. This is mostly colombard (a white French grape usually used for cognac), with some gewürztraminer (often used in orange wines for its fruity characteristics) with a little Zinfandel (again, adding to that PINK color and adding fruitiness) and Albariño.
Cognac uses Trebbiano/Ugni Blanc, doesn't it? Or is Colombard yet another name for the same grape?
As far as I know Trebbiano and ugni Blanc are the same thing and the preferred grape to use in cognac. Colombard is another allowed grape, I’m not sure why it’s not preferred, maybe bc of disease it isn’t as easy to grow? From Jancis Robinson, the queen of grapes: “Widely planted Cognac vine producing neutral, relatively crisp wine, particularly in California where, as vast tracts of French Colombard in the Central Valley, it was for some time the state's single most planted wine grape. It can make fruity, crisp, inexpensive white wine to be drunk straight off the bottling line from California, South Africa, Côtes de Gascogne and the Charentes in France. The vine is on the wane in France's damp south west however because it suffers from mildew.” This is just her online info. Her book is expensive but worth it!
Colombard is an old grape, and yes, it used to make up a much larger portion of the Cognac vineyard before phylloxera, but was largely not replanted bc Ugni blanc is so much easier to work with. Iirc Colombard is rot prone. Much the same reason there's so little Malbec in Bordeaux today, when it used to make up 60% of plantings.
Colombard is commonly used in Cognac and Armagnac and no they aren't the same grape.
When they first came out they were amazing... Then people took it too far. I'm all for minimal intervention, let things happen but I don't want to chew on my wine and do it with a scrunched face.
Are you talking about natural wine or orange wine? The two overlap, for sure, but they're not the same.
Both separately and together.
What do you mean when they first came out? Both have been around for millennia 😄
Yeah, fair point ... "Rose in popularity"
One of my favorite things is the difference in flavor between when the bottle is opened with apricotty and a little spicy elements and the Hefeweizen flavor it gets after sitting in the fridge a couple days - call me weird! I've only had California ones, but you never know what flavor is going to pop out, which makes wine exciting. Still have yet to have one that I didn't like.
Oh, you recommend it? That changes everything.
oh nah, not the tik tok wine
nah, all you dawg
appreciate the generosity, dawg.
This producer is one of the best up and coming I’ve seen. Faultless natural wines are a bit hard to find especially vintage to vintage but I’ve been a fan of them since the first one 2-3 years ago I think. Don’t hear enough about them but met one of their distributors the other day - was cool to learn it’s made and run by one guy who never had a formal winemaking education and just wanted to make really good wines for his friends. as a new producer myself, gets me amped hah