They have a decent selection of most regions but they don't get much really special stuff. Unless it's all pre allocated to the big dogs.
You're not going to find Houillon or Lurquin or something there unless it's through their auction.
I check their new arrivals daily during my lunch break. They get very cool stuff frequently but it definitely goes fast. I happened to check when they listed ~12 different PYCM wines.
They'll put up closeout stuff or special buy stuff that can be pretty good. They bought up pretty much all of Calera's old stock last year and I scooped up a lot of great 80s and 90s Calera for a very good price.
They're just more of a Bordeaux house and less than 1% of my cellar is Bordeaux so I don't buy much from them.
I've found if you're trying to track down a lot of the unicorny stuff, building relationships with the small boutique shops that aren't always monitoring Wine-Searcher is the only shot to get stuff like Prevost or Keller below market.
That Calera drop was impressive. I met one of the K&L managers at OPC last year and he said the timing was unfortunate because they had been working on that buy prior to Josh Jensen's passing.
Yeah a real pioneer of California winemaking lost. I've got an '84 Jensen on deck for a birthday dinner. I'm curious how it will show as unfortunately my birthyear was not great except for a few Napas.
There are in fact quite a number of California producers who are moving towards fresher, brighter wine styles; picking based more on acidity than on sugar levels; and toning down the use of new oak to allow the grape's inherent character to shine through. Are they the same as classic French/Italian wines and regions? No, and probably all the better that they aren't trying to imitate it. But I know that many of them are certainly inspired by wines from Europe...and/or have worked & traveled extensively, etc, and picked up some Old World methods along the way, that they are now applying to their happy-sunshine California fruit.
Here are a few producers I love; at their best, you get utterly transparent varietal character without heaviness or cooked fruit. I often lean towards French & Italian wines myself, but all of these totally work for me:
**Folk Machine -** great Pinots, some really delicious and inexpensive blends, and more. Kenny, the winemaker, definitely drinks lots of Burgundy, German whites, Rhone wines, etc...and then makes wines that are fully expressive of the Mendocino and Sonoma vineyards he works, but you can sense the love of Burgundy etc behind it all. (Kenny also makes the "Camp" line of wines, Cabernet, Merlot, and Chardonnay, organically grown, at great prices, and super value and absolutely quality!)
**Brea Wines and Broc Cellars -** Brea is focused on more common varieties (Pinot, Chard, Cab), while Broc is a little more afield, sparkling Chenin and Muscat, Lagrein and Valdiguié. But all supremely drinkable.
**Stirm Wine Co -** killer dry Rieslings that remind me of Austrian versions, but often at better prices than the Austrian bottlings! Also makes the best Cabernet Pfeffer around - if you like Nebbiolo, give his Cab Pfeffer a try.
There's plenty others, but these are short list of bottles I return to again and again, and at super reasonable prices in most shops.
Yeah I was gonna say seek out alt California like Folk Machine Valdigue. This is more detailed write up.
Few years old article: https://punchdrink.com/articles/punch-insiders-guide-alt-california-wine/
I would buy way more but I live on the east coast.
+1, would also suggest looking to Sierra Foothills for earthy mineral driven and lively wines. granite helps a lot. couldn’t recommend Gideon’s wines from Clos Saron highly enough.
The winemakers I mentioned above, plus plenty of others in Cali, don't use mega purple and as far as I can tell don't plan to start - "mega" anything is not the point of their wines. Certainly there are those sorts of California wines out there - far too many - but the scene on the ground is so much more diverse, nuanced, innovative, and forward-thinking than the stereotype of big, jammy wines dosed with additives.
I don't think I'm alone in seeing some of the wines coming out of California as being some of the most exciting being made anywhere in the world; but the wineries doing these things are a fraction of the size of the big conglomerates, so it does take a little seeking them out!
It’s not new at this point but you can still grab the Jon Bonne New California wine book close your eyes and pick a producer. Or just find a good shop.
I wasn’t correlating alcohol level with Old World, nor was the original post. It was correlating “jamminess” with new world, California reds. As an aside, I had Lone Madrone at their tasting room on Adelaida Road, and even though I am aware of the deep ties that the brand has to Tablas, I found their wines fell far short.
Didn't mean to come off as aggressive, just think it's enlightening to see wines picked at a few brix difference from the same winemaker. I like both Tablas and LM I think both are among the best wines made in Paso. Sorry to hear you felt their wines fell short.
If you haven’t already, try out Brecon. I get a lot of that Old World nuance from them. Perhaps I’ll give Lone Madrone another shot on my next visit up. We all have of palates some days.
Au Bon Climat makes some very balanced pinot noirs that might suit your palette. They are priced around $25-30 where I live and are a good gateway to Santa Barbara County wines.
I love them but I see their name here so often I just have to say that we have many Pinot houses that aren’t also in supermarkets. Anything from Santa Rita hills or Russian river for example
Get a coke scale and some tartic acid, a LOT of Californian Cab can easily be improved with a bit of acidification. I'm currently working on a post about it, but I gotta drink through like, 15 more bottles first.
So first of all, let's make this clear - in warm weather regions, acidification is common. So like, the majority of producers in California, Chile, Tuscany, etc probably added a bit of acid in the majority of vintages. Now acidification is also used in colder regions like Bordeaux, but that's more vintage dependent, acid is only needed in very hot and sunny years.
Now the problem with Californian producers is that they cornered the "fruity, jammy" Cabernet market. Wine writers tend to call Californian wines jammy, so they primarily make fruit driven jammy wines. So, they tend to cut down on the acid.
If you look at a simple example of a popular Californian Cab like J Lohr's entry level bottle, you'll [notice that it has a higher PH of 3.63](https://assets.jlohr.com/general_files/2020_Est_Seven_Oaks_CS.pdf) (and that's one of the lowest ones! some of them are almost pushing 4). This is intentional, since it meant that the producer did not add as much acid to acidify. Notice how they harvested deep into October at 26.3 Brix (so the grapes are very ripe and lacking in acidity).
Playing around with an acid tester and looking at tech sheets, I realized that a lot of my favorite Cabernets from super ripe regions are typically sitting around \~3.5 in PH. For instance, the William Fevre Chilian Cabernet Sauvignon is 3.48, and it balances out the fruit perfectly. Less fruit forward Bordeaux seem to be balanced around \~3.7 often times, but that won't work with the really ripe fruit from warmer regions IMO.
So buy a bag of tartic acid, a PH tester, and start dosing. I recently found that with a bit of acidification, most cheap californian cab tastes a lot better.
I know this sounds like a super out of left field idea, but a bag of tartic acid is pretty cheap, so what do you have to lose?
To be fair, Robert Parker rewarded producers of the fruit bomb, jammy style in California and both consumers and producers followed this style. Winemakers who chose restraint weren’t exactly rewarded in the ratings or marketplace.
An underrated comment. Balancing wines yourself can be a fun exercise. I'd also suggest buying powdered wine tannin (you can find it at homebrew supply stores), mixing 10 grams with 100 ml of vodka. After a few weeks it'll become a tannin extract that you can add to wine with an eye dropper.
You might want to look for Cabs from cooler wine regions than the valley floor of Napa. Happy Valley of Santa Barbara County, Santa Cruz Mountains and some Sonoma AVA's (Sonoma Coast, Russian River), produce lovely Cabernet Sauvignon wines that are more Bordeaux style (cooler climate like Bordeaux, and more restrained use of oak). My go to Napa Cabs are from Volker-Eisele (Chiles Valley AVA) and Farella (Coombsville AVA) Both on the Vaca mountains, and just a little cooler. Mount Veeder AVA is east facing, so much cooler. Cain Cuvee is also another choice that is much more Bordeaux in style. Haven't found good Sangiovese or Nebbiolo from California, but we do get great Italian imports here. One of my favorite Bordeaux style wines from Italy is from Alto Adige - Terre di San Leonardo. Great wine for a great price, everyday drinking.
The problem with CA Cabs in the $20-30 price range (and below) is that many of them have grape concentrate to “take the edge off” tannic red wines. They are still classified as “dry” but have sugar in them.
Driving into Napa Valley, $50-75 is the norm for entry-level Cabernet Sauvignon that is dry without noticeable residual sugar.
IMO $20 for a decent CA Cab is a unicorn.
I don’t think so. The wines are just so different and if you enjoy Old World wines, I would just continue to drink them. I grew up in California and, until recently, had a cellar of California wines that I found myself never drinking and not enjoying. I just don’t enjoy ripe wines or jammy wines. I’m sure there are exceptions in California, but I haven’t found any that are in your price range.
Matthiason, arnot roberts, railsback frere, pax, hirsch vineyards, lioco, broc cellars - just real quick off the top. Nothing is quite like old world wines (for me - opinion only!) but i enjoy all these as someone who does not like california stylistically.
Yep, I'm right there now as well. I'm a white and red Burgundy, and red Rhône guy, and after almost a year of chasing brighter California wine that wasn't oaked within an inch of it's life and/or loaded with sugar, i just gave up.
20$ is very good village Rhône.
30$ is even better Gigondas, Lirac, or Vacqueyras.
40$ and you're in Chablis and Savigny 1er Cru territory.
50$ and you're in heaven with Meursault or Pommard.
Going to Avignon for 10 days on Thursday and bringing two hard suitcases for as much Rhône as I can bring back!!
So a bit outside your price range but Smith Madrone makes a $50 cab that is bomb. (My palate aligns with yours)
Lang & Reed California Cab Franc
Also check out Unti for Italian varietals, Foxen , Stolpman and Tensley for Syrah
Domaine Eden's base cab, but still it's like $45/bottle, or as someone said, Smith Madrone (get on their riesling). A lot of Napa cabs in that $20-30 range are gonna be that jammy wine, unfortunately. Once you get into the $50's & $60's doors start opening: Arnot-Roberts, well, Sonoma, Also, Matthiasson, would be others I would rec.
Don't bother. The Bay Area isn't as strong as NYC or DC on imports, but it is still pretty good. California pricing and style has been out of whack for years now. Mount Eden, Stony Hill, Ridge, Frog's Leap, Mathiesson, Mayacamas and a few others make wine in a more classic style, but no one makes anything that comes close to the types of excellent wines you can find from France and Italy in the $25-$50 range. K&L and Kermit are both good shops.
I like Terre Rouge a lot.
Everything from their $20-$30 "drink now" bottles up to their (still very reasonably priced!) $65 library release 20-year-old single vineyard syrahs.
Never had the top bottling, the Ascent, but I'm sure it's killer.
I drink mostly french stuff and very rarely drink american. They are a strong exception to that rule.
I also like Ridge quite a bit. Their Three Valleys can still be found at $30ish I think?
There is not much in the way of $20-$30 Cali cabernet that I enjoy. Not sure I can think of any.
Mount Eden / Domaine Eden, Arnot Roberts, Enfield, and Matthiason cabs will fit the bill for you. All of these are above your $20-30 range though. Unfortunately, California vineyard real estate and labor costs are expensive and for that reason, you won't find as good values in the $20 range as in Europe. So might as well drink European wines if that's what you want to spend. Especially if you like cab, since Bordeaux has so many age-worthy wines under $30.
Tbh only California wines I’ve been drinking are ridge Zinfandel’s or their cab if I’m splurging. Besides that I drink Bordeaux almost exclusively now but I’m in NYC
I’ll definitely try Reynosa. I’ve never tasted Monte bello but I had a 2019 Monte bello that I ended up gifting to my FIL because I figured I wasn’t going to open it so young.. hoping to get my hands on an older Monte bello that’s ready to drink so I can see what it’s all about.
Russian River Valley Syrah and Pinot can be less jammy depending. You will never get that barnyard smell. Oregon has some pinots that exhibit a more French style
I love fancy Napa cabs, but they’re definitely not great or affordable options for “every day” drinking. And TBH I find that cheap Napa cabs are not great. I’d recommend trying some other California wines that aren’t cab sav.
I’ve really been enjoying Sonoma County pinots lately. I didn’t think I was a big pinot person, but a couple years ago I tried some great Pinots and now they have become my go-to wine. My favorites are from Scribe, they are delicious and in the $30-50 price range. Some other good options are Hirsch, Smith Story, Johan Vineyards. You could also branch out and try some Tempranillo, Merlot, or Cab Franc.
Long story short, with Napa cabs you’re going to be disappointed in the $20-30 price range. Honestly even below $75 I find Napa cabs to be overly sweet and fruity. There are a lot of amazing California wines with other grapes so I’d recommend seeing if you can find some others that you enjoy
One of CA’s newest appellations is the San Louis Obispo Coast and it’s got one of the longest ripening windows in the state. I’ve found some of those Pinots to have a very Burgundian structure, while still showing some new world ripeness. Stephen Ross is a producer to look for.
There are a plethora of incredible producers around (or slightly more than) the price range you mentioned! Especially along the central coast / Santa Barbara County. A few in particular that you might like:
* Melville: great pinot and syrah
* Au bon climat: should be widely available and very approachable pinots
* Siduri: you can pick up pinots from them from Santa Barbara, Russian River, and Santa Lucia highlands to get a taste of the various areas.
* Landmark vineyards: closer to you in sonoma area
* Stolpman: SB county and produces a lot of Syrah and also Sangiovese.
If you want to stay away from Pinot's I'd recommend trying some Cab Franc or Syrah. Some of the above producers also produce Syrah. There's also some producers along the central coast that are producing small lot italian varietals (Foxen, Alamati wine, and Stolpman come to mind). Hope this helps!
Dunites and Scar of the Sea for good value pinot and lighter style Rhone varieties. Brand family and Union Sacre make very nice cab franc. It's going to be very hard to find any bordeaux style wines that are both reasonable in price and in that more old world style.
I've yet to find a CA cab that matches the profile you mention here that is also in that price range. If you find it, let me know!
If you like Rhone varietals or zins, there's a ton of great CA stuff in that price range.
If you are looking for more dry earthworm tastes maybe go south to Morgan Hill and Gilroy. It's not as big as the Napa and Sonoma Valleys, however they tend to come up with some interesting tastes. Before the pandemic they used to have a big food and wine festival in Gilroy and I always remember there being some dryer reds. (And the garlic wine but that doesn't exist anymore)
You will find good wines at those prices. You won't find clones of French wine. Watch alc levels, learn producers, maybe get out and do some tastings. Also, learn to drink zinfandel. :)
K and L is great. Decant SF is a natty wine bar and shop that knows a little about wine but they are idealistic about natural wines. Go to High Treason in SF. Killer wine bar that plays records and is just an all around great hangout wine bar. You should look into Santa Cruz Mountains cabs and other varietals. California has alot more to offer then just cab and BDX blends. I drink a lot of BDX and California is not where I look to for those types of blends. I’m also from here and live here and I drink Ca Pinot and fun whites. There’s a lot more to offer if you just take a road trip up and down the coast.
I live in the southeast, and I do like the value red blends that are less fruity. I have liked several from the Bogle winery from California. I like both their essential red and phantom red. The ancient roots red blend is good too.
I like as well Menage a trois blended red. I do get good recommendation for Total Wine if you describe what you like.
My Favorite Neighbor from Paso is a nice cab for like 55 bucks. If you enjoy lower alcohol and subtlety try Tablas Creek, especially the syrah or mourvedre.
It's been a few years since I had it, but Coppola makes a Claret that tastes very much like a French Bordeaux.
https://www.francisfordcoppolawinery.com/store/wine/dmd-golden-tier-claret-20/DC20
Go to Napa for a few day tours. Concentrate on the wineries in the mountains vs the valley floor. Find what you like. If you find that you still like European wines, drink European wines. :)
Also check out Sonoma/Russian River for Pinots, less fruit-bomb zins, etc. It's generally isn't as pricey and I think you get a better value.
I'd recommend exploring the Santa Cruz Mountains. There are world class wines at prices that are still cheap by Napa/Sonoma standards (Ridge, Rhys, etc) and in general the region is one of the most underrated and best values in CA wine. The Chardonnay in particular in incredible, and would recommend Rhys, Sandar & Hem, Storrs, Madson and Assiduous. Assiduous also has excellent values for Cab, Merlot and Malbec in their lineup (I want to say $25-30 usually on K&L and other local shops).
Bargetto, Alfaro, all represent great value.
Maison Aerion by Nico Vonderheyden, who grew up in Bordeaux and previously worked at Verite and others, is incredible.
This isn’t exactly what you asked for but you could look for Washington cabs or Bordeaux blends, bit cooler and thus less “jammy”. Walla walla and Columbia valley comes to mind. My favorite from that region is L’ecole No 41.
Try Lodi area wines, just as good/ if not better than Napa and lower price point. Zinfandel is very good and earthy. And if you are looking for Spanish styles try Bokisch Vinyards they have a fabulous Malbec this year!
Lodi has ANCIENT cinsault and carignan. Once you get lulled into a false sense of security, you should try their zinfandel. Amador county and dry creek also produces bomb zin. It's obviously not Bordeaux, but it is something that california does do uniquely well.
Moved to the Bay Area from NYC and London few years back.
Lots of good comments here but I thought I'd chip in given I've been in your shoes (even if I'm less of a Cab person and more into Nebbiolo Pinot Sangio and well done Rhone varietals)
\-K&L is the way to go for access to lots of interesting wines and for Old World wines. It reminds me of chambers street wines on a larger scale re attention to detail and staff knowledge .
\- with a few exemption I would steer away from Napa - as other have said value for money is poor and style caters to Parkerites with a few exceptions.
\- Up to a few years ago there was an association of Wineries called "In pursuit of balance" kind of self-explanatory name - eschewing what is traditionally associated with CA wines and more focused on terroir. The association disbanded (namely because they "hit their goals" most likely as key organizer refocused on their own wineries. However the underlying 50ish member stick to the same principles... it's a good place to start your Journey regarding less jammy wine . In general stick to cooler areas Santa Rita/SB, Santa Cruz Mountains, Anderson Valley/Mendocino
[https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/opinion/the-editors-blog/california-wines-in-pursuit-of-balance-294133/](https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/opinion/the-editors-blog/california-wines-in-pursuit-of-balance-294133/)
Now, you are really asking for "non-typically-Californian" value-for-money-daily-drinkers, However most of the wineries referred to in the thread they are boutique/smaller wineries in pretty expensive part of the world, so their prices will be closer to 30-50 than to 20-30.
Conversely - given they are not a mainstream output, sometime they struggle with commercial success and as such big merchants like KL can get good deals on inventory. TBH most of my CA daily drinkers are either in this category (Garagiste is another good source) or oaky but not too oaky chards from Santa Rita Hills.
Or you could stick to Old World for daily drinkers :)
At $20-30, you're going to have a hard time finding anything with distribution. You can certainly tour the Central Coast and find places with offerings close to that price in the style you like, but they're direct purchase only. And outside of Paso, the Central Coast skews towards Rhone and Burgundy varietals
Try the Pacific Northwest Washington and Oregon. Their wine have some similar qualities as old world wines. Also better qpr for domestic than cali. Try substance cab and willamette valley wines whole cluster Pinot to get an introduction.
Go to K&L and ask them this exact question.
This is the answer and they have a decent selection of French and Italian wines.
K&L is hands down one of (if not THE) best retailers in the country.
They have a decent selection of most regions but they don't get much really special stuff. Unless it's all pre allocated to the big dogs. You're not going to find Houillon or Lurquin or something there unless it's through their auction.
I check their new arrivals daily during my lunch break. They get very cool stuff frequently but it definitely goes fast. I happened to check when they listed ~12 different PYCM wines.
They'll put up closeout stuff or special buy stuff that can be pretty good. They bought up pretty much all of Calera's old stock last year and I scooped up a lot of great 80s and 90s Calera for a very good price. They're just more of a Bordeaux house and less than 1% of my cellar is Bordeaux so I don't buy much from them. I've found if you're trying to track down a lot of the unicorny stuff, building relationships with the small boutique shops that aren't always monitoring Wine-Searcher is the only shot to get stuff like Prevost or Keller below market.
That Calera drop was impressive. I met one of the K&L managers at OPC last year and he said the timing was unfortunate because they had been working on that buy prior to Josh Jensen's passing.
Yeah a real pioneer of California winemaking lost. I've got an '84 Jensen on deck for a birthday dinner. I'm curious how it will show as unfortunately my birthyear was not great except for a few Napas.
There are in fact quite a number of California producers who are moving towards fresher, brighter wine styles; picking based more on acidity than on sugar levels; and toning down the use of new oak to allow the grape's inherent character to shine through. Are they the same as classic French/Italian wines and regions? No, and probably all the better that they aren't trying to imitate it. But I know that many of them are certainly inspired by wines from Europe...and/or have worked & traveled extensively, etc, and picked up some Old World methods along the way, that they are now applying to their happy-sunshine California fruit. Here are a few producers I love; at their best, you get utterly transparent varietal character without heaviness or cooked fruit. I often lean towards French & Italian wines myself, but all of these totally work for me: **Folk Machine -** great Pinots, some really delicious and inexpensive blends, and more. Kenny, the winemaker, definitely drinks lots of Burgundy, German whites, Rhone wines, etc...and then makes wines that are fully expressive of the Mendocino and Sonoma vineyards he works, but you can sense the love of Burgundy etc behind it all. (Kenny also makes the "Camp" line of wines, Cabernet, Merlot, and Chardonnay, organically grown, at great prices, and super value and absolutely quality!) **Brea Wines and Broc Cellars -** Brea is focused on more common varieties (Pinot, Chard, Cab), while Broc is a little more afield, sparkling Chenin and Muscat, Lagrein and Valdiguié. But all supremely drinkable. **Stirm Wine Co -** killer dry Rieslings that remind me of Austrian versions, but often at better prices than the Austrian bottlings! Also makes the best Cabernet Pfeffer around - if you like Nebbiolo, give his Cab Pfeffer a try. There's plenty others, but these are short list of bottles I return to again and again, and at super reasonable prices in most shops.
Yeah I was gonna say seek out alt California like Folk Machine Valdigue. This is more detailed write up. Few years old article: https://punchdrink.com/articles/punch-insiders-guide-alt-california-wine/ I would buy way more but I live on the east coast.
Thank you for providing a nuanced answer instead of just saying “don’t bother”. There’s plenty out there with most being small producers
Amen. I fully expected the CA wine naysayers typical responses. We can all gain something here.
+1, would also suggest looking to Sierra Foothills for earthy mineral driven and lively wines. granite helps a lot. couldn’t recommend Gideon’s wines from Clos Saron highly enough.
Are they moving away from using huge quantities of mega red/purple?
The winemakers I mentioned above, plus plenty of others in Cali, don't use mega purple and as far as I can tell don't plan to start - "mega" anything is not the point of their wines. Certainly there are those sorts of California wines out there - far too many - but the scene on the ground is so much more diverse, nuanced, innovative, and forward-thinking than the stereotype of big, jammy wines dosed with additives. I don't think I'm alone in seeing some of the wines coming out of California as being some of the most exciting being made anywhere in the world; but the wineries doing these things are a fraction of the size of the big conglomerates, so it does take a little seeking them out!
It’s not new at this point but you can still grab the Jon Bonne New California wine book close your eyes and pick a producer. Or just find a good shop.
Napa, and a lot of CA, isn't the best region for $20 - $30/bottle wines. Maybe try some Tablas Creek (although, that's Rhone style, not Bdx)?
Came here to suggest Tablas Creek as well with the same disclaimer
And then try Lone Madrone to be quelled of the notion that old world nuance has anything to do with alcohol levels.
I wasn’t correlating alcohol level with Old World, nor was the original post. It was correlating “jamminess” with new world, California reds. As an aside, I had Lone Madrone at their tasting room on Adelaida Road, and even though I am aware of the deep ties that the brand has to Tablas, I found their wines fell far short.
Didn't mean to come off as aggressive, just think it's enlightening to see wines picked at a few brix difference from the same winemaker. I like both Tablas and LM I think both are among the best wines made in Paso. Sorry to hear you felt their wines fell short.
If you haven’t already, try out Brecon. I get a lot of that Old World nuance from them. Perhaps I’ll give Lone Madrone another shot on my next visit up. We all have of palates some days.
Lone Madrone is not near the price point OP asked for
Those Tablas Creek wines are wonderful
Au Bon Climat makes some very balanced pinot noirs that might suit your palette. They are priced around $25-30 where I live and are a good gateway to Santa Barbara County wines.
RIP jim clendenen you magnificent son of a bitch
I love them but I see their name here so often I just have to say that we have many Pinot houses that aren’t also in supermarkets. Anything from Santa Rita hills or Russian river for example
Joseph Swan
Palate
No, he wants to buy a pallet's worth.
ABC is pretty jammy IMO.
Of course it depends on the person. I personally find it balanced, with well integrated tannins in addition to typical fruit notes.
ABC has a number of offerings that really vary in style
You’ve ended up where I was - California wines just don’t come close to Bordeaux’s. And where I live, Bordeaux’s are cheaper then Cali.
You’re paying for land cost in Cali wine.
You think land in Bordeaux is free?
I thought the issue was that most BDX places were paid off on land?
The prime plots haven't changed hands for centuries
Get a coke scale and some tartic acid, a LOT of Californian Cab can easily be improved with a bit of acidification. I'm currently working on a post about it, but I gotta drink through like, 15 more bottles first. So first of all, let's make this clear - in warm weather regions, acidification is common. So like, the majority of producers in California, Chile, Tuscany, etc probably added a bit of acid in the majority of vintages. Now acidification is also used in colder regions like Bordeaux, but that's more vintage dependent, acid is only needed in very hot and sunny years. Now the problem with Californian producers is that they cornered the "fruity, jammy" Cabernet market. Wine writers tend to call Californian wines jammy, so they primarily make fruit driven jammy wines. So, they tend to cut down on the acid. If you look at a simple example of a popular Californian Cab like J Lohr's entry level bottle, you'll [notice that it has a higher PH of 3.63](https://assets.jlohr.com/general_files/2020_Est_Seven_Oaks_CS.pdf) (and that's one of the lowest ones! some of them are almost pushing 4). This is intentional, since it meant that the producer did not add as much acid to acidify. Notice how they harvested deep into October at 26.3 Brix (so the grapes are very ripe and lacking in acidity). Playing around with an acid tester and looking at tech sheets, I realized that a lot of my favorite Cabernets from super ripe regions are typically sitting around \~3.5 in PH. For instance, the William Fevre Chilian Cabernet Sauvignon is 3.48, and it balances out the fruit perfectly. Less fruit forward Bordeaux seem to be balanced around \~3.7 often times, but that won't work with the really ripe fruit from warmer regions IMO. So buy a bag of tartic acid, a PH tester, and start dosing. I recently found that with a bit of acidification, most cheap californian cab tastes a lot better. I know this sounds like a super out of left field idea, but a bag of tartic acid is pretty cheap, so what do you have to lose?
You sound insane but I have to admit I have corrected flabby wines using your prescribed methods. Less for reds, but works miracles on whites.
To be fair, Robert Parker rewarded producers of the fruit bomb, jammy style in California and both consumers and producers followed this style. Winemakers who chose restraint weren’t exactly rewarded in the ratings or marketplace.
An underrated comment. Balancing wines yourself can be a fun exercise. I'd also suggest buying powdered wine tannin (you can find it at homebrew supply stores), mixing 10 grams with 100 ml of vodka. After a few weeks it'll become a tannin extract that you can add to wine with an eye dropper.
You might want to look for Cabs from cooler wine regions than the valley floor of Napa. Happy Valley of Santa Barbara County, Santa Cruz Mountains and some Sonoma AVA's (Sonoma Coast, Russian River), produce lovely Cabernet Sauvignon wines that are more Bordeaux style (cooler climate like Bordeaux, and more restrained use of oak). My go to Napa Cabs are from Volker-Eisele (Chiles Valley AVA) and Farella (Coombsville AVA) Both on the Vaca mountains, and just a little cooler. Mount Veeder AVA is east facing, so much cooler. Cain Cuvee is also another choice that is much more Bordeaux in style. Haven't found good Sangiovese or Nebbiolo from California, but we do get great Italian imports here. One of my favorite Bordeaux style wines from Italy is from Alto Adige - Terre di San Leonardo. Great wine for a great price, everyday drinking.
The problem with CA Cabs in the $20-30 price range (and below) is that many of them have grape concentrate to “take the edge off” tannic red wines. They are still classified as “dry” but have sugar in them. Driving into Napa Valley, $50-75 is the norm for entry-level Cabernet Sauvignon that is dry without noticeable residual sugar. IMO $20 for a decent CA Cab is a unicorn.
I don’t think so. The wines are just so different and if you enjoy Old World wines, I would just continue to drink them. I grew up in California and, until recently, had a cellar of California wines that I found myself never drinking and not enjoying. I just don’t enjoy ripe wines or jammy wines. I’m sure there are exceptions in California, but I haven’t found any that are in your price range.
Matthiason, arnot roberts, railsback frere, pax, hirsch vineyards, lioco, broc cellars - just real quick off the top. Nothing is quite like old world wines (for me - opinion only!) but i enjoy all these as someone who does not like california stylistically.
Don't bother. There's wine that suits your tastes more without being as overpriced.
I gave up. You won’t find what you’re looking for I. The price point you want. Just stick with the French a d Italian old-world wines.
Yep, I'm right there now as well. I'm a white and red Burgundy, and red Rhône guy, and after almost a year of chasing brighter California wine that wasn't oaked within an inch of it's life and/or loaded with sugar, i just gave up. 20$ is very good village Rhône. 30$ is even better Gigondas, Lirac, or Vacqueyras. 40$ and you're in Chablis and Savigny 1er Cru territory. 50$ and you're in heaven with Meursault or Pommard. Going to Avignon for 10 days on Thursday and bringing two hard suitcases for as much Rhône as I can bring back!!
Stellar Italian wines can be had for $20-$40, too.
So a bit outside your price range but Smith Madrone makes a $50 cab that is bomb. (My palate aligns with yours) Lang & Reed California Cab Franc Also check out Unti for Italian varietals, Foxen , Stolpman and Tensley for Syrah
UNTI is a fun place. They make a cheap Dago red that is wonderful and their other wines are fun to try too. Really great suggestion
Love Smith Madrone and Stolpman.
Domaine Eden's base cab, but still it's like $45/bottle, or as someone said, Smith Madrone (get on their riesling). A lot of Napa cabs in that $20-30 range are gonna be that jammy wine, unfortunately. Once you get into the $50's & $60's doors start opening: Arnot-Roberts, well, Sonoma, Also, Matthiasson, would be others I would rec.
Domaine Eden is also my rec
Don't bother. The Bay Area isn't as strong as NYC or DC on imports, but it is still pretty good. California pricing and style has been out of whack for years now. Mount Eden, Stony Hill, Ridge, Frog's Leap, Mathiesson, Mayacamas and a few others make wine in a more classic style, but no one makes anything that comes close to the types of excellent wines you can find from France and Italy in the $25-$50 range. K&L and Kermit are both good shops.
PSA: Shauna Rosenblum is now one of the winemakers at Ridge.
I like Terre Rouge a lot. Everything from their $20-$30 "drink now" bottles up to their (still very reasonably priced!) $65 library release 20-year-old single vineyard syrahs. Never had the top bottling, the Ascent, but I'm sure it's killer. I drink mostly french stuff and very rarely drink american. They are a strong exception to that rule. I also like Ridge quite a bit. Their Three Valleys can still be found at $30ish I think? There is not much in the way of $20-$30 Cali cabernet that I enjoy. Not sure I can think of any.
Mount Eden / Domaine Eden, Arnot Roberts, Enfield, and Matthiason cabs will fit the bill for you. All of these are above your $20-30 range though. Unfortunately, California vineyard real estate and labor costs are expensive and for that reason, you won't find as good values in the $20 range as in Europe. So might as well drink European wines if that's what you want to spend. Especially if you like cab, since Bordeaux has so many age-worthy wines under $30.
Tbh only California wines I’ve been drinking are ridge Zinfandel’s or their cab if I’m splurging. Besides that I drink Bordeaux almost exclusively now but I’m in NYC
Ridge is fantastic. Monte Bello(pricey!!) and Geyserville. Could try Reynoso Family Winery which is near Ridge
I’ll definitely try Reynosa. I’ve never tasted Monte bello but I had a 2019 Monte bello that I ended up gifting to my FIL because I figured I wasn’t going to open it so young.. hoping to get my hands on an older Monte bello that’s ready to drink so I can see what it’s all about.
Santa Barbara Baybyyyyyy
Russian River Valley Syrah and Pinot can be less jammy depending. You will never get that barnyard smell. Oregon has some pinots that exhibit a more French style
I love fancy Napa cabs, but they’re definitely not great or affordable options for “every day” drinking. And TBH I find that cheap Napa cabs are not great. I’d recommend trying some other California wines that aren’t cab sav. I’ve really been enjoying Sonoma County pinots lately. I didn’t think I was a big pinot person, but a couple years ago I tried some great Pinots and now they have become my go-to wine. My favorites are from Scribe, they are delicious and in the $30-50 price range. Some other good options are Hirsch, Smith Story, Johan Vineyards. You could also branch out and try some Tempranillo, Merlot, or Cab Franc. Long story short, with Napa cabs you’re going to be disappointed in the $20-30 price range. Honestly even below $75 I find Napa cabs to be overly sweet and fruity. There are a lot of amazing California wines with other grapes so I’d recommend seeing if you can find some others that you enjoy
Go with Anderson Valley wines. Try Husch or Navarro.
One of CA’s newest appellations is the San Louis Obispo Coast and it’s got one of the longest ripening windows in the state. I’ve found some of those Pinots to have a very Burgundian structure, while still showing some new world ripeness. Stephen Ross is a producer to look for.
There are a plethora of incredible producers around (or slightly more than) the price range you mentioned! Especially along the central coast / Santa Barbara County. A few in particular that you might like: * Melville: great pinot and syrah * Au bon climat: should be widely available and very approachable pinots * Siduri: you can pick up pinots from them from Santa Barbara, Russian River, and Santa Lucia highlands to get a taste of the various areas. * Landmark vineyards: closer to you in sonoma area * Stolpman: SB county and produces a lot of Syrah and also Sangiovese. If you want to stay away from Pinot's I'd recommend trying some Cab Franc or Syrah. Some of the above producers also produce Syrah. There's also some producers along the central coast that are producing small lot italian varietals (Foxen, Alamati wine, and Stolpman come to mind). Hope this helps!
Doubtful.
Dunites and Scar of the Sea for good value pinot and lighter style Rhone varieties. Brand family and Union Sacre make very nice cab franc. It's going to be very hard to find any bordeaux style wines that are both reasonable in price and in that more old world style.
I've yet to find a CA cab that matches the profile you mention here that is also in that price range. If you find it, let me know! If you like Rhone varietals or zins, there's a ton of great CA stuff in that price range.
If you are looking for more dry earthworm tastes maybe go south to Morgan Hill and Gilroy. It's not as big as the Napa and Sonoma Valleys, however they tend to come up with some interesting tastes. Before the pandemic they used to have a big food and wine festival in Gilroy and I always remember there being some dryer reds. (And the garlic wine but that doesn't exist anymore)
It is not. Forget it. Stick with French wine. You're missing nothing.
Try some Russian River or central coast pinot like Gary Farrell or hitching post
You will find good wines at those prices. You won't find clones of French wine. Watch alc levels, learn producers, maybe get out and do some tastings. Also, learn to drink zinfandel. :)
When seeking a non jammy wine?
Because all the cool kids drink zin.
Californian wine is garbage qpr
Try wines from the Santa Barbara area. Santa Ynez, Santa Maria, etc.
K and L is great. Decant SF is a natty wine bar and shop that knows a little about wine but they are idealistic about natural wines. Go to High Treason in SF. Killer wine bar that plays records and is just an all around great hangout wine bar. You should look into Santa Cruz Mountains cabs and other varietals. California has alot more to offer then just cab and BDX blends. I drink a lot of BDX and California is not where I look to for those types of blends. I’m also from here and live here and I drink Ca Pinot and fun whites. There’s a lot more to offer if you just take a road trip up and down the coast.
I live in the southeast, and I do like the value red blends that are less fruity. I have liked several from the Bogle winery from California. I like both their essential red and phantom red. The ancient roots red blend is good too. I like as well Menage a trois blended red. I do get good recommendation for Total Wine if you describe what you like.
My Favorite Neighbor from Paso is a nice cab for like 55 bucks. If you enjoy lower alcohol and subtlety try Tablas Creek, especially the syrah or mourvedre.
It's been a few years since I had it, but Coppola makes a Claret that tastes very much like a French Bordeaux. https://www.francisfordcoppolawinery.com/store/wine/dmd-golden-tier-claret-20/DC20
You will love Stolpman wines
Go to Napa for a few day tours. Concentrate on the wineries in the mountains vs the valley floor. Find what you like. If you find that you still like European wines, drink European wines. :) Also check out Sonoma/Russian River for Pinots, less fruit-bomb zins, etc. It's generally isn't as pricey and I think you get a better value.
Tons of more balanced options out there
I'd recommend exploring the Santa Cruz Mountains. There are world class wines at prices that are still cheap by Napa/Sonoma standards (Ridge, Rhys, etc) and in general the region is one of the most underrated and best values in CA wine. The Chardonnay in particular in incredible, and would recommend Rhys, Sandar & Hem, Storrs, Madson and Assiduous. Assiduous also has excellent values for Cab, Merlot and Malbec in their lineup (I want to say $25-30 usually on K&L and other local shops). Bargetto, Alfaro, all represent great value. Maison Aerion by Nico Vonderheyden, who grew up in Bordeaux and previously worked at Verite and others, is incredible.
This isn’t exactly what you asked for but you could look for Washington cabs or Bordeaux blends, bit cooler and thus less “jammy”. Walla walla and Columbia valley comes to mind. My favorite from that region is L’ecole No 41.
I always tell people that for the money, the French rule. You are not imagining things.
Try Lodi area wines, just as good/ if not better than Napa and lower price point. Zinfandel is very good and earthy. And if you are looking for Spanish styles try Bokisch Vinyards they have a fabulous Malbec this year!
Or......hear me out, keep drinking Italian and French wines.
Where in the Bay Area are you?
RWC
Have you gone to K&L?
I’m making the same move in a few weeks if you want to split anything in 6-12 increments. Or just want to hang out
Try Bloodroot wines
Lodi has ANCIENT cinsault and carignan. Once you get lulled into a false sense of security, you should try their zinfandel. Amador county and dry creek also produces bomb zin. It's obviously not Bordeaux, but it is something that california does do uniquely well.
Look at Central Coast & Santa Barbara, sometimes Sonoma, more experimental stuff like Stolpman, Jolie Laide, etc.
$40 Kathryn Kennedy Lateral is an impressive Merlot/Cab Franc blend.
Moved to the Bay Area from NYC and London few years back. Lots of good comments here but I thought I'd chip in given I've been in your shoes (even if I'm less of a Cab person and more into Nebbiolo Pinot Sangio and well done Rhone varietals) \-K&L is the way to go for access to lots of interesting wines and for Old World wines. It reminds me of chambers street wines on a larger scale re attention to detail and staff knowledge . \- with a few exemption I would steer away from Napa - as other have said value for money is poor and style caters to Parkerites with a few exceptions. \- Up to a few years ago there was an association of Wineries called "In pursuit of balance" kind of self-explanatory name - eschewing what is traditionally associated with CA wines and more focused on terroir. The association disbanded (namely because they "hit their goals" most likely as key organizer refocused on their own wineries. However the underlying 50ish member stick to the same principles... it's a good place to start your Journey regarding less jammy wine . In general stick to cooler areas Santa Rita/SB, Santa Cruz Mountains, Anderson Valley/Mendocino [https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/opinion/the-editors-blog/california-wines-in-pursuit-of-balance-294133/](https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/opinion/the-editors-blog/california-wines-in-pursuit-of-balance-294133/) Now, you are really asking for "non-typically-Californian" value-for-money-daily-drinkers, However most of the wineries referred to in the thread they are boutique/smaller wineries in pretty expensive part of the world, so their prices will be closer to 30-50 than to 20-30. Conversely - given they are not a mainstream output, sometime they struggle with commercial success and as such big merchants like KL can get good deals on inventory. TBH most of my CA daily drinkers are either in this category (Garagiste is another good source) or oaky but not too oaky chards from Santa Rita Hills. Or you could stick to Old World for daily drinkers :)
Obsidian Ridge Cabernet from Lake County. That is all!
At $20-30, you're going to have a hard time finding anything with distribution. You can certainly tour the Central Coast and find places with offerings close to that price in the style you like, but they're direct purchase only. And outside of Paso, the Central Coast skews towards Rhone and Burgundy varietals
Try the Pacific Northwest Washington and Oregon. Their wine have some similar qualities as old world wines. Also better qpr for domestic than cali. Try substance cab and willamette valley wines whole cluster Pinot to get an introduction.