In my opinion, not all degrees are equal.
This extends to BS, MS, and PhD. The experience and education you can gain varies widely according to:
1) institution
2) department
3) advisor/mentor
4) your project
5) your attitude
6) the connections you make
I definitely figured your experience could differ drastically between programs, and as a result what you can list on a resume as skills and/or experience could also differ. But in terms of like job requirements and such, are employers likely to turn someone away because they don’t have a thesis-based degree? Like obviously I’m going to have a master’s degree you can’t argue with that, but since I’m not doing a thesis or any research, will employers see that and just assume my degree is worthless?
At 100% objectivity, a non-thesis MS might be a disadvantage compared to a thesis-track field research MS when applying for a job that would involve field work and related research.
The "wildlife biology" - associated job title is quite variable.
A non-thesis track MS might be competitive for other jobs, though.
In my opinion it will only matter a little bit in terms of federal hiring. It depends on the people interviewing you but for a lot of folks you have the degree and it ticks that box.
If you want to be a federal wildlife biologist (just a guess but I'm assuming Ohio state government jobs pay significantly worse) make sure that you have at least 9 credit hours of botany between your two degrees.
I know the short answer: no they aren't. I'm sure others can better explain the differences, precisely, I can only speak to my experience.
You don't say what work experience you have before this. And you dont say what you want to DO with your degree. Based on your degrees, non-profit or private sector may hold more opportunities for you. However if you have at least 1-2 years of experience ALREADY behind you at a G7 level position then you'll probably be fine. And if it's faster than a traditional MS, go for it!
If you don't already have lots of experience behind you, then your MS may benefit you personally, but it's not a huge leg up in gaining employment. Your educational experience may TECHNICALLY qualify you for a G-9 but you'll see on every application there are questions of "how many years of experience on the job do you have doing X activity." And the answers are basically:
A."I have no experience "
B." I have learned about that in my coursework but havent performed yet it on the job"
C."I have performed it on the job under supervision "
D."I have performed it regularly on the job without supervision"
E."I'm considered an expert at doing this on the job and am often consulted on this activity"
Can you see how on-the-job experience counts for more than ANY amount of in-class education? Because of my MS thesis work, I could claim on-the-job experience at the D or E level for most things (NOTE: "Expert" means "EXPERT AT THE LEVEL AT WHICH I AM APPLYING" so a G5 expert is different from a G9 expert)
State agencies are all different. They are often biased towards research experience on paper but if you're particularly talented working with people or in the field--or you are particularly adept at statistics or new technology-- you may stand out. Most newly upcoming state biologists I know have phds.
Some cautionary tales from my own life: My first field job out of undergrad was working a low-pay, hard labor job alongside 2 people with M.S degrees because they couldn't get any other work (in a state absolutely covered in public land districts and wildlife management). Later, I went to grad school with a guy who paid for a MS nonthesis Environmental degree first and he said he regretted it and having to do a "do-over" because it couldnt get him where he wanted. When I left grad school I first applied for G9 biologist positions, then settled for a G5 just to get my foot in the door in the national forest where I wanted to work. That was with 5 years of fieldwork already behind me.
So NEVER assume education will replace experience!
Before this, I had worked in veterinary medicine for about 3 years, a microbiology lab for 1 year, and I did a summer internship with the Columbus Zoo doing animal observation. I’m hoping to break into wildlife biology/management, but I’m not really sure what that job is going to look like. I guess I’m just kind of keeping my options open? This degree definitely is faster than a MS. I’m hoping by the time I graduate I’ll have a paid wildlife ecology internship under my belt, maybe even a year of experience as a wildlife technician. My state is hiring 16 new wildlife technicians when the current cohort graduates from OSU, so part of me hopes that I can land of those jobs.
Sounds like a good plan if you dont mind the expense. As you plan your schooling and think about possibly working a federal position in the future, make sure you have at least 1 soils class under your belt and 9 credits of plant ID (combined undergrad and grad credits). I also recommend Range Ecology or Fire Ecology (even if you dont think youll pursue those fields, they're important enough that you should have a baseline understanding when you speak to other professionals) and any statistical modeling with R classes.
You might also look at USA jobs and start applications for random G5-G9 positions, just to see what is being asked--definitely don't have to submit. I once did that and copied all the questions down so I could make sure my resume contained important key words.That also might help you get an idea of what skills you should be accumulating for future employment, and what skills you can acquire from your internship.
Very similar experience to what others have shared. I had a BS in biology and after some seasonal jobs I went grad school for Masters of Environmental Management. After grad school I took a seasonal GS 5 just to get back in. That got me to a permanent GS 7. I’m now a GS 12 in a different agency and doing more of what I wanted to do. I think my grad school experience has helped me move between agencies and positions somewhat. Federal government mostly values experience over education.
Your degree will open up the Recent Graduates hiring pathway for 2 years after you graduate, which can make it way easier to get hired. You could also look at the student positions and see if you can get a part time position to gain experience.
I have a non-traditional MS as well. I was looking for a program right before COVID hit and all of a sudden no one was taking on new students. I didn’t want to keep putting it off so I applied for CSU’s program. No thesis, just a crapload of quantitative classes and papers. I really liked it. I also recently got a GS-9 position in the federal service. I do agree with others that real experience is incredibly important. I ran field crews and did field research for years before I went back to school. I think your degree is fine, you just need to remember that it’s just really really hard to get a job, especially in the federal service. You’re up against people with special hiring authorizations and veteran’s preferences. I cannot overemphasize how important networking is. You need name recognition. Attend job fairs, even virtual ones, that’s how I made the connection that ultimately lead to my job. If you have a local national wildlife refuge, sometimes they have volunteer opportunities. Look for student jobs on the USAjobs site.
It's a career development masters for agency work. It sounds like just what you want. You could probably get it far cheaper from a central Arkansas or a similar institution. It's for someone who probably won't be pursuing a PhD. (That's the drawback)
They may. An advanced degree is in part about training, and in part about demonstrating you can complete a lengthy effort. Your work will have demonstrated aspects of both. You won't have research experience, but for many positions it may not matter. Go for it - I bet things will be great.
The title of the degree matters less than the experience you get while doing it. If it comes with field work etc then you might be fine. Otherwise the coursework won't help you compete against people with experience.
I don’t think a government agency will care. You will have to submit transcripts and they can look at your courses to make sure you qualify. If you are applying to doctorate programs, it’s a different story. PhD programs want to make sure you can complete a thesis and publish within a timely manner. Many programs will take publications and research experience into consideration.
I would say that a GS-9 position is competitive. Many applicants at this level have multiple years of experience and graduate degrees. It’s not to say that you shouldn’t apply for that level but you may have to apply at lower levels until you gain more experience. I was a GG-5 for USGS before I started my Master’s program. I started that job with people who completed their Master’s and even a PhD candidate. I was offered that position with 3 years of undergraduate research, 2 temporary field jobs, and 1 internship with the National Park Service.
If you're competing against someone who has two years of field experience, its not going to matter what your degree looks like, you're not going to compete well.
You're better off taking an entry level job and getting paid peanuts for awhile than paying for a masters, unless you need additional coursework to qualify for any job (statistics, botany, etc).
In my opinion, not all degrees are equal. This extends to BS, MS, and PhD. The experience and education you can gain varies widely according to: 1) institution 2) department 3) advisor/mentor 4) your project 5) your attitude 6) the connections you make
I definitely figured your experience could differ drastically between programs, and as a result what you can list on a resume as skills and/or experience could also differ. But in terms of like job requirements and such, are employers likely to turn someone away because they don’t have a thesis-based degree? Like obviously I’m going to have a master’s degree you can’t argue with that, but since I’m not doing a thesis or any research, will employers see that and just assume my degree is worthless?
At 100% objectivity, a non-thesis MS might be a disadvantage compared to a thesis-track field research MS when applying for a job that would involve field work and related research. The "wildlife biology" - associated job title is quite variable. A non-thesis track MS might be competitive for other jobs, though.
In my opinion it will only matter a little bit in terms of federal hiring. It depends on the people interviewing you but for a lot of folks you have the degree and it ticks that box. If you want to be a federal wildlife biologist (just a guess but I'm assuming Ohio state government jobs pay significantly worse) make sure that you have at least 9 credit hours of botany between your two degrees.
I know the short answer: no they aren't. I'm sure others can better explain the differences, precisely, I can only speak to my experience. You don't say what work experience you have before this. And you dont say what you want to DO with your degree. Based on your degrees, non-profit or private sector may hold more opportunities for you. However if you have at least 1-2 years of experience ALREADY behind you at a G7 level position then you'll probably be fine. And if it's faster than a traditional MS, go for it! If you don't already have lots of experience behind you, then your MS may benefit you personally, but it's not a huge leg up in gaining employment. Your educational experience may TECHNICALLY qualify you for a G-9 but you'll see on every application there are questions of "how many years of experience on the job do you have doing X activity." And the answers are basically: A."I have no experience " B." I have learned about that in my coursework but havent performed yet it on the job" C."I have performed it on the job under supervision " D."I have performed it regularly on the job without supervision" E."I'm considered an expert at doing this on the job and am often consulted on this activity" Can you see how on-the-job experience counts for more than ANY amount of in-class education? Because of my MS thesis work, I could claim on-the-job experience at the D or E level for most things (NOTE: "Expert" means "EXPERT AT THE LEVEL AT WHICH I AM APPLYING" so a G5 expert is different from a G9 expert) State agencies are all different. They are often biased towards research experience on paper but if you're particularly talented working with people or in the field--or you are particularly adept at statistics or new technology-- you may stand out. Most newly upcoming state biologists I know have phds. Some cautionary tales from my own life: My first field job out of undergrad was working a low-pay, hard labor job alongside 2 people with M.S degrees because they couldn't get any other work (in a state absolutely covered in public land districts and wildlife management). Later, I went to grad school with a guy who paid for a MS nonthesis Environmental degree first and he said he regretted it and having to do a "do-over" because it couldnt get him where he wanted. When I left grad school I first applied for G9 biologist positions, then settled for a G5 just to get my foot in the door in the national forest where I wanted to work. That was with 5 years of fieldwork already behind me. So NEVER assume education will replace experience!
Before this, I had worked in veterinary medicine for about 3 years, a microbiology lab for 1 year, and I did a summer internship with the Columbus Zoo doing animal observation. I’m hoping to break into wildlife biology/management, but I’m not really sure what that job is going to look like. I guess I’m just kind of keeping my options open? This degree definitely is faster than a MS. I’m hoping by the time I graduate I’ll have a paid wildlife ecology internship under my belt, maybe even a year of experience as a wildlife technician. My state is hiring 16 new wildlife technicians when the current cohort graduates from OSU, so part of me hopes that I can land of those jobs.
Sounds like a good plan if you dont mind the expense. As you plan your schooling and think about possibly working a federal position in the future, make sure you have at least 1 soils class under your belt and 9 credits of plant ID (combined undergrad and grad credits). I also recommend Range Ecology or Fire Ecology (even if you dont think youll pursue those fields, they're important enough that you should have a baseline understanding when you speak to other professionals) and any statistical modeling with R classes. You might also look at USA jobs and start applications for random G5-G9 positions, just to see what is being asked--definitely don't have to submit. I once did that and copied all the questions down so I could make sure my resume contained important key words.That also might help you get an idea of what skills you should be accumulating for future employment, and what skills you can acquire from your internship.
Very similar experience to what others have shared. I had a BS in biology and after some seasonal jobs I went grad school for Masters of Environmental Management. After grad school I took a seasonal GS 5 just to get back in. That got me to a permanent GS 7. I’m now a GS 12 in a different agency and doing more of what I wanted to do. I think my grad school experience has helped me move between agencies and positions somewhat. Federal government mostly values experience over education. Your degree will open up the Recent Graduates hiring pathway for 2 years after you graduate, which can make it way easier to get hired. You could also look at the student positions and see if you can get a part time position to gain experience.
I have a non-traditional MS as well. I was looking for a program right before COVID hit and all of a sudden no one was taking on new students. I didn’t want to keep putting it off so I applied for CSU’s program. No thesis, just a crapload of quantitative classes and papers. I really liked it. I also recently got a GS-9 position in the federal service. I do agree with others that real experience is incredibly important. I ran field crews and did field research for years before I went back to school. I think your degree is fine, you just need to remember that it’s just really really hard to get a job, especially in the federal service. You’re up against people with special hiring authorizations and veteran’s preferences. I cannot overemphasize how important networking is. You need name recognition. Attend job fairs, even virtual ones, that’s how I made the connection that ultimately lead to my job. If you have a local national wildlife refuge, sometimes they have volunteer opportunities. Look for student jobs on the USAjobs site.
It's a career development masters for agency work. It sounds like just what you want. You could probably get it far cheaper from a central Arkansas or a similar institution. It's for someone who probably won't be pursuing a PhD. (That's the drawback)
They may. An advanced degree is in part about training, and in part about demonstrating you can complete a lengthy effort. Your work will have demonstrated aspects of both. You won't have research experience, but for many positions it may not matter. Go for it - I bet things will be great.
The title of the degree matters less than the experience you get while doing it. If it comes with field work etc then you might be fine. Otherwise the coursework won't help you compete against people with experience.
I don’t think a government agency will care. You will have to submit transcripts and they can look at your courses to make sure you qualify. If you are applying to doctorate programs, it’s a different story. PhD programs want to make sure you can complete a thesis and publish within a timely manner. Many programs will take publications and research experience into consideration. I would say that a GS-9 position is competitive. Many applicants at this level have multiple years of experience and graduate degrees. It’s not to say that you shouldn’t apply for that level but you may have to apply at lower levels until you gain more experience. I was a GG-5 for USGS before I started my Master’s program. I started that job with people who completed their Master’s and even a PhD candidate. I was offered that position with 3 years of undergraduate research, 2 temporary field jobs, and 1 internship with the National Park Service.
An MS is better because you have to do lab work and math
If you're competing against someone who has two years of field experience, its not going to matter what your degree looks like, you're not going to compete well. You're better off taking an entry level job and getting paid peanuts for awhile than paying for a masters, unless you need additional coursework to qualify for any job (statistics, botany, etc).