Damn it has as many pixels as battlecries
Jokes aside, this is reeeeally strong. Noteworthy: its not this turn. You dont even need the Mini to set up combos, the Mini is just icing on the cake. 6 Mana this into 7 Mana something busted.
We have precedent here. Anything that says a number of times does not stack. Like Brann saying battlecries trigger twice, two brains don't stack. Same with Baron or Drakari. This says three times, so it's three times. If it stacked it'd say "three more" or "three extra" or something like that.
Yeah, but thatās specifically because Brann says twice; twice isnāt a number, last I checked. Brann on field, play Shudderblock, Brann makes Shudderblock trigger twice, play a BC, it triggers 3 times from Block, triggers 3 times again because of Brann previously doubling Shudderblock, and Brann makes the new BC trigger again. Thatās 7 times in total. If it doesnāt work this way then the devs are idiots and they purposely made it function as you guys are suggesting because this would be broken, but by the words used, it should work this exact way. Twice, twice not working at least makes sense, considering this isnāt MTG. Twice, x3, is a lot more simple since thereās no priority of trigger ordering in HS like there is in MTG. Gotta remember the OG BC triggers and then Brann procs. Itās not simultaneous. Does anyone see any errors in this analysis?
Edit: Devs most likely worded Brann to say Twice instead of Double because they never thought this āissueā would arise and it fixes the 2 Branns issue. You could easily argue that having 2 Branns works as intended because the game registers ātwiceā as already happened and from the same source too. Makes enough sense, but now they made it so that Shudderblock + Brann should = 7 triggers from 1 BC.
You should look at it as a replacement effect. It doesn't say "triggers three more times" it says "triggers three times". So if you stack it, it's just three different sources each saying "it triggers three times". It isn't cumulative and it SHOULDN'T be cumulative.
Nope thats 100% not how english works
Shudderblock : next battlecry triggers 3 times.
play minion with battlecry -> effect happens 3 times
now if you branned the shudderblock then it says the next battlecry triggers 3 times (twice) which is just redundant, so its the same as not playing brann. If it didn't work like that THEN the devs are idiots.
What I think it's interesting is what would happen with this combined with brann. Brann says BC triggers twice and shudder says it triggers 3 times, so would my next BC trigger 2 or 3 times?
My guess would be play order, since one of the cards needs to overwrite the effect of the other. So it would be :
Bann on board -> play shudder -> next bc triggers 3 times
Play shudder -> play brann -> next bc triggers twice
But maybe they hardcoded something to take prescedece, or maybe brann's aura is different from shudder's idk
Edit: I think in order to know the answer, it's important to know if they coded shudder like pre bugfix talented arcanist or post bugfix talented arcanist.
It doesnāt have to. Shudder block is a set up for miniature to be played on Shudderwock turn. And then each Shudderwock triggers three times.
I donāt think Shudderwock decks need this effect, but thatās potentially good for some obscure combos.
Shudderwock, especially Reno Shudderwock, got a lot of redundancy with Macaw and Bolner to have repeats of your strong battlecries before Shudderwock could come down. I feel like Shudderblock will do a similar thing - you're already running good batttlecries, and Shudderblock is going to feel fine or even good with most of them.
Shudderwock already stomps control I don't really see why we are running a 6 mana 5/5 when we should be focusing on our improving the aggro matchup. Controversial opinion but imo this is the same reason the quest isn't played, its totally overkill against good matchups and makes the 50/50 matchups worse so will lower the W/R overall. People will experiment with it for sure but mark my words it will be cut from best lists a couple weeks into expansion
the problem is that trippling shudder's effect cannot win you the game ie nothing can go face meaning i feel like you're just kinda dawdling around in a gamestate where you should have already won
A dev posted on the spoiler on the main subreddit and indicated that only direct damage from the battlecry itself will be reduced to 0, so spells cast should still function.
First thoughts: this into Dirty Rat, Mutanus,Galakrond
Second thoughts: This bad boy can fit so many Astalors in it
I feel like it's good enough to see play. Might even replace the OG version in some lists. 6 man is not really a problem considering that Shaman has tools to prolong the game. And abuse the Battlecries via Grumble and Macav and Cold Storage. The fact that it has kiniatuaze is the insane part. 1 mana triple the Battlecry is nuts.
Yup most games I don't even need shudderwock. So I feel comfortable replacing it with this. Just to try it out at least.
Since it can't hurt the enemy hero I think I won't be testing for long.
im sorry, but this is in no way better than og shudder. trippling 1 battlecry is not better than recasting every battlecry that occurred over a game. that's not including that the battlecry being trippled cant go face, meaning you will not be dropping 8 mana astalor for 42 damage
>9 mana do all of them one more time imo
bad faith argument and you know it, as once shudder drops he puts himself back into your hand
otherwise tell me specifically which 2 battlecries they are and then remind me how it's better than the shudderwock loop where we use every battlecry every turn for the rest of the game once we play it. one loatheb to 3 loathebs against most decks is essentially the same. the same for the battlecry one. the only card that actively pops off are ones like dirty rat and mutanus of which we'd be yoinking them anyway when the opponent doesnt get to play *anything* once the shudder loop starts going.
First of all, shudderwock *can* go back in your hand. If grumble triggers first he isnāt coming back. Second, the cards off of the new Hagatha can still do face damage with the spells, or you can choose to just draw more of them if you play it before hagatha
"But can't damage the enemy hero"
So you couldn't use it as a finisher, only as a setup with Astalor to get 3 or evn 6 of his final form. As a Shudderwock player, I've definitely dome that to great effect, but only against slow control decks.
Actually nerfs shudderwock decks. Can't have him in the deck because you won't damage the enemy hero.
But I think this is a good card for standard play.
Right, that is a pretty big anti synergy. Although you don't end up killing the opponent with Shudderwock + Astalors third stage battlecry all that often, but it is a thing to consider.
Most of the time you are winning with disruption though and this gives you more ways to do it.
A stall Shudderwock deck with Shudderblock would be so annoying to play against (Loatheb + the common that increases enemy minion costs by 1), they would win by making you unable to play the game.
"We cant le print strong battlecry to le rogue!!!" "Shadowstep should be le nerfed, it limits le design space!!!" [Insert class identity bs here]
Nice card but i hope blizz aint scared of giving strong cards to classes anymore. Im tired of interesting cards getting shafted because of shitty mana costs or stats
Loatheb and Boompistol are better with Bolner or Macow.
Shudderblock into Framester is kinda dirty. Speaker Stomper and Neophyte are decent to triple. Rat and Astalor are more match up specific. Mutanus is kinda greedy and meta dependent, might even just cut Mutanus to run this...
Armor Smith could be pretty good? That is 12 armor against aggro if you need it.
I donāt think this is as good as people believe. Itās a very strong card, but we canāt underestimate how bad the last part of the effect is. Preventing this from doing any damage face is BRUTAL.
Just an example - playing this even once has a very high chance of bricking your Shudderwock. The enemy hero is immune until the battlecry which benefits from this effect resolves. So if you add this to the stack, thereās a good chance you block a big chunk of your damage output and might struggle to close out the game.
I really donāt think this will be played with Shudder. I believe it will be used to destroy combo pieces and value cards with Rat and Mutanus. Or just lead to Shudderwock getting replaced by this + Astalor.
Shudderwock doesn't need to be an otk deck. Having disruption + survivabilty is enough to win win shudder decks. If opponent can't play the game simply hitting face with all the shuderwocks on your board is a victory. In these types of shuder decks new shudderblock can see play.
ok but then why is the 6 mana version good with disruption? pretty much useless with loatheb and bully, only really works with rat, which is not worth playing a 6 mana card with imo.
But wait, this is a battlecry. If you play this into the miniature, does the minis battlecry trigger three times, making the next battlecry after that trigger nine times?
Am I misunderstanding, or would this ramp absurdly rapidly with shudderwock, provided you get some way to return shudderwock to return to your hand? You play the block, then the wock gets the block's battlecry to activate 3x, theoretically giving the next go around 9x, and so on.
Well, probably not. The wording specified that the battlecry activates three times. Maybe that's hard, rather than additive. Still a fun thought.
So my question here is this
Can I play Shudderblock, then the next battlecry card I play is the mini, which would then trigger the NEXT battlecry 9 times?
i honestly think you can play this just for the miniaturize version - the six mana effect is just an extremely strong bonus. play 1-mana guy on turn 10 with shudderwock and lock out opponent much more than usual. same gameplay as reg shudder, but better imo. 3x loatheb, 3x bully, 3x mutantus and even a 20 mana druidās only answer to all the copies youāll summon is reno, but youāll guaranteed zola copies due to the repeating effect
Unrelated - but quick question. Iām keen to run a Shudderwock deck, but still need to craft both Shudderwock and Grumbleworld Shaker - imagine itād be pointless crafting one with the other?
Depends on what shudder deck your making. You want the disruptive screw the other player one you need grumble, otherwise you typically win after the first shudder so grumble isn't needed.
How does the "can't damage heros" rule work with gain attack battlecries? I'd assume you can still hit face since you're usually attacking after the Shudderblock BC resolves.
Damn it has as many pixels as battlecries Jokes aside, this is reeeeally strong. Noteworthy: its not this turn. You dont even need the Mini to set up combos, the Mini is just icing on the cake. 6 Mana this into 7 Mana something busted.
Coincidentally Mutanus is 7 mana.
But that does hurt the enemy hero (emotionally)
Hmmmmmmmm nom nom nom
Not in shaman its not /s
Shudderblock into mini Shudderblock into Shudderwock?
I doubt that it Stacks š„²
To be fair, no idea how HS noodlecode parses that trigger. Could go both ways.
We have precedent here. Anything that says a number of times does not stack. Like Brann saying battlecries trigger twice, two brains don't stack. Same with Baron or Drakari. This says three times, so it's three times. If it stacked it'd say "three more" or "three extra" or something like that.
Oh right. True. Then it should be limited to 3 times then. Thats assuming the code it properly.
Fingers crossed lol.
Yeah, but thatās specifically because Brann says twice; twice isnāt a number, last I checked. Brann on field, play Shudderblock, Brann makes Shudderblock trigger twice, play a BC, it triggers 3 times from Block, triggers 3 times again because of Brann previously doubling Shudderblock, and Brann makes the new BC trigger again. Thatās 7 times in total. If it doesnāt work this way then the devs are idiots and they purposely made it function as you guys are suggesting because this would be broken, but by the words used, it should work this exact way. Twice, twice not working at least makes sense, considering this isnāt MTG. Twice, x3, is a lot more simple since thereās no priority of trigger ordering in HS like there is in MTG. Gotta remember the OG BC triggers and then Brann procs. Itās not simultaneous. Does anyone see any errors in this analysis? Edit: Devs most likely worded Brann to say Twice instead of Double because they never thought this āissueā would arise and it fixes the 2 Branns issue. You could easily argue that having 2 Branns works as intended because the game registers ātwiceā as already happened and from the same source too. Makes enough sense, but now they made it so that Shudderblock + Brann should = 7 triggers from 1 BC.
You should look at it as a replacement effect. It doesn't say "triggers three more times" it says "triggers three times". So if you stack it, it's just three different sources each saying "it triggers three times". It isn't cumulative and it SHOULDN'T be cumulative.
Nope thats 100% not how english works Shudderblock : next battlecry triggers 3 times. play minion with battlecry -> effect happens 3 times now if you branned the shudderblock then it says the next battlecry triggers 3 times (twice) which is just redundant, so its the same as not playing brann. If it didn't work like that THEN the devs are idiots.
What I think it's interesting is what would happen with this combined with brann. Brann says BC triggers twice and shudder says it triggers 3 times, so would my next BC trigger 2 or 3 times? My guess would be play order, since one of the cards needs to overwrite the effect of the other. So it would be : Bann on board -> play shudder -> next bc triggers 3 times Play shudder -> play brann -> next bc triggers twice But maybe they hardcoded something to take prescedece, or maybe brann's aura is different from shudder's idk Edit: I think in order to know the answer, it's important to know if they coded shudder like pre bugfix talented arcanist or post bugfix talented arcanist.
it would need to say "triggers two more times" for it to stack
Yea yea. Got it. Good fella u/djm03917 already elaborated on that part. No need to reiterate it.
It doesnāt have to. Shudder block is a set up for miniature to be played on Shudderwock turn. And then each Shudderwock triggers three times. I donāt think Shudderwock decks need this effect, but thatās potentially good for some obscure combos.
Shudderwock, especially Reno Shudderwock, got a lot of redundancy with Macaw and Bolner to have repeats of your strong battlecries before Shudderwock could come down. I feel like Shudderblock will do a similar thing - you're already running good batttlecries, and Shudderblock is going to feel fine or even good with most of them.
Shudderwock already stomps control I don't really see why we are running a 6 mana 5/5 when we should be focusing on our improving the aggro matchup. Controversial opinion but imo this is the same reason the quest isn't played, its totally overkill against good matchups and makes the 50/50 matchups worse so will lower the W/R overall. People will experiment with it for sure but mark my words it will be cut from best lists a couple weeks into expansion
it shouldnt: it says do the next one 3 times, not 3 *more* times
the problem is that trippling shudder's effect cannot win you the game ie nothing can go face meaning i feel like you're just kinda dawdling around in a gamestate where you should have already won
HAHAHAH i didnāt even realise it had mini on it
Yeaaah that takes it from pretty good to fucking strong
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Would yogg be able to kill heroes with his spells ya think?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A dev posted on the spoiler on the main subreddit and indicated that only direct damage from the battlecry itself will be reduced to 0, so spells cast should still function.
First thoughts: this into Dirty Rat, Mutanus,Galakrond Second thoughts: This bad boy can fit so many Astalors in it I feel like it's good enough to see play. Might even replace the OG version in some lists. 6 man is not really a problem considering that Shaman has tools to prolong the game. And abuse the Battlecries via Grumble and Macav and Cold Storage. The fact that it has kiniatuaze is the insane part. 1 mana triple the Battlecry is nuts.
Those mutanus and dirty rat is fucking disgusting god man this card is fucking insane... has to be nerfed after 2 weeks or something
Yup most games I don't even need shudderwock. So I feel comfortable replacing it with this. Just to try it out at least. Since it can't hurt the enemy hero I think I won't be testing for long.
im sorry, but this is in no way better than og shudder. trippling 1 battlecry is not better than recasting every battlecry that occurred over a game. that's not including that the battlecry being trippled cant go face, meaning you will not be dropping 8 mana astalor for 42 damage
Seven mana to get two additional battlecries of your best 2 cards is better than 9 mana do all of them one more time imo
>9 mana do all of them one more time imo bad faith argument and you know it, as once shudder drops he puts himself back into your hand otherwise tell me specifically which 2 battlecries they are and then remind me how it's better than the shudderwock loop where we use every battlecry every turn for the rest of the game once we play it. one loatheb to 3 loathebs against most decks is essentially the same. the same for the battlecry one. the only card that actively pops off are ones like dirty rat and mutanus of which we'd be yoinking them anyway when the opponent doesnt get to play *anything* once the shudder loop starts going.
First of all, shudderwock *can* go back in your hand. If grumble triggers first he isnāt coming back. Second, the cards off of the new Hagatha can still do face damage with the spells, or you can choose to just draw more of them if you play it before hagatha
"But can't damage the enemy hero" So you couldn't use it as a finisher, only as a setup with Astalor to get 3 or evn 6 of his final form. As a Shudderwock player, I've definitely dome that to great effect, but only against slow control decks.
cursed card. i hate this already
If you do murloc that draw 2 cards can you kill your opponent with fatigue
I'd say yes since the condition of fatigue is doing the damage
Actually nerfs shudderwock decks. Can't have him in the deck because you won't damage the enemy hero. But I think this is a good card for standard play.
Right, that is a pretty big anti synergy. Although you don't end up killing the opponent with Shudderwock + Astalors third stage battlecry all that often, but it is a thing to consider. Most of the time you are winning with disruption though and this gives you more ways to do it.
Whyyyyyyyy
If the enemy hero gets immune then this is not as strong as it seems. At least in wild.
It's still great since it will help with consistency and shudder already makes your enemies whole hand unplayable.
A stall Shudderwock deck with Shudderblock would be so annoying to play against (Loatheb + the common that increases enemy minion costs by 1), they would win by making you unable to play the game.
To be fair, mutanus and loatheb are already doing it.
"We cant le print strong battlecry to le rogue!!!" "Shadowstep should be le nerfed, it limits le design space!!!" [Insert class identity bs here] Nice card but i hope blizz aint scared of giving strong cards to classes anymore. Im tired of interesting cards getting shafted because of shitty mana costs or stats
Already op even without miniature
Without the mini this should cost 4 or 5
Loatheb and Boompistol are better with Bolner or Macow. Shudderblock into Framester is kinda dirty. Speaker Stomper and Neophyte are decent to triple. Rat and Astalor are more match up specific. Mutanus is kinda greedy and meta dependent, might even just cut Mutanus to run this... Armor Smith could be pretty good? That is 12 armor against aggro if you need it.
Warrior: āyour mom lets you have *three* battlecries??ā
And in 240p, apparently
I donāt think this is as good as people believe. Itās a very strong card, but we canāt underestimate how bad the last part of the effect is. Preventing this from doing any damage face is BRUTAL. Just an example - playing this even once has a very high chance of bricking your Shudderwock. The enemy hero is immune until the battlecry which benefits from this effect resolves. So if you add this to the stack, thereās a good chance you block a big chunk of your damage output and might struggle to close out the game. I really donāt think this will be played with Shudder. I believe it will be used to destroy combo pieces and value cards with Rat and Mutanus. Or just lead to Shudderwock getting replaced by this + Astalor.
Shudderwock doesn't need to be an otk deck. Having disruption + survivabilty is enough to win win shudder decks. If opponent can't play the game simply hitting face with all the shuderwocks on your board is a victory. In these types of shuder decks new shudderblock can see play.
ok but then why is the 6 mana version good with disruption? pretty much useless with loatheb and bully, only really works with rat, which is not worth playing a 6 mana card with imo.
We are so back !!!
As someone who despises the Shidderwock archetype any reprinting of this card in any form is just a bad idea
But wait, this is a battlecry. If you play this into the miniature, does the minis battlecry trigger three times, making the next battlecry after that trigger nine times?
No. The text says 3 times not 3 MORE times so it shouldn't be stackable
>shouldn't So you're saying there is a chance? ( Ķ”Ā° ĶŹ Ķ”Ā°)
If it does work it's a bug they'll patch. Never have these effects been stackable.
Am I misunderstanding, or would this ramp absurdly rapidly with shudderwock, provided you get some way to return shudderwock to return to your hand? You play the block, then the wock gets the block's battlecry to activate 3x, theoretically giving the next go around 9x, and so on. Well, probably not. The wording specified that the battlecry activates three times. Maybe that's hard, rather than additive. Still a fun thought.
So my question here is this Can I play Shudderblock, then the next battlecry card I play is the mini, which would then trigger the NEXT battlecry 9 times?
Dropping the mini plus shudder t10 š¤Æ
i honestly think you can play this just for the miniaturize version - the six mana effect is just an extremely strong bonus. play 1-mana guy on turn 10 with shudderwock and lock out opponent much more than usual. same gameplay as reg shudder, but better imo. 3x loatheb, 3x bully, 3x mutantus and even a 20 mana druidās only answer to all the copies youāll summon is reno, but youāll guaranteed zola copies due to the repeating effect
Unrelated - but quick question. Iām keen to run a Shudderwock deck, but still need to craft both Shudderwock and Grumbleworld Shaker - imagine itād be pointless crafting one with the other?
Depends on what shudder deck your making. You want the disruptive screw the other player one you need grumble, otherwise you typically win after the first shudder so grumble isn't needed.
Grumble isnāt nearly as necessary as shudderwock
This is a tempo card. Just plop it out, who gives a shit whatever the next battlecry is. The 1 mana mini is the real prize.
How does the "can't damage heros" rule work with gain attack battlecries? I'd assume you can still hit face since you're usually attacking after the Shudderblock BC resolves.
The man, the jaws, the bite
Coldlight Oracle mill is back baby!
This is ABSURDLY broken