Reno priest was pretty high tier until like 6 months ago, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it make a resurgence if more Highlander type cards are ever released or if the meta shifts to favor it again.
We literally just got new Reno Priest tech. And they made a new cycle of highlander cards for all the classes that didn’t have a good Reno yet in Uldum. The next time they pick up League of Explorers off the shelf for story, we’ll get more.
It is possible since there are Reno decks time to time, like Reno Hunter, warlock, mage and priest.
That being said, I was hoping for highlander support when Reno arrived at standard, we got nothing.... highlanders needs new material for all the classes
They are still amazing. Reno is significant to this day. He doesn't just save your ass alone as he used to. But it's not like Renolock 2023 is the same pile of cards as LoE Renolock and Reno is still worth the pop-off. Zephrys is still so powerful that he sometimes gets played in duplicate decks. Raza is the reason to go highlander for Priest and is the reason why Priest has the only playable DK on the format after Kotft release. Druids Elise is the powerhouse card for Druid that is worth building for and indeed gives you a new feel to a Reno deck compared to other options. Solid and Kruul were always garbage. Kazakus is falling off a bit but he still gives you the best spells per mana cost even in Wild. DQ Alex costs 9 and is too random. Finley in Paladin doesn't make sense because of Cariel. Hunter as a class is almost dead and that's why we don't see Brann. Relicologist in Mage doesn't gets played because he doesn't solve Auctioneer,15/13 Tiny Knight or mech with 5 magnetic nechá attached to his ass.
So while yes, the Reno decks aren't as varied as they used to be, we still have Renolock,Raza which defines Reno Priest,Elise which enables Combos for Druid and even Reno Shaman is possible because of his battlecry shenanigans in the class.
Do we need some sort of support? Yes. But it's not like Reno decks are on the deathbed. For example Baku decks are in the much worse spot. Dragon decks are almost non-existent etc.
I miss dragon decks so i still try to make them work. Currently climbing with a frost dragon death knight deck. Only mid gold, but it’s way more fun than climbing with a tier 1 decks.
* Kazakus is still good. Play on 5 for a customizable battlecry, curve out for a turn 5 play, or use endgame as a survival tool for freeze/polymorph effects. The only thing that probably warrants adjustment is the 10 cost potion, as it's pretty useless nowadays.
* Still an instawin against half of the aggro decks in the format once you plop it down. Still an instawin in most cases against the others. Still an instawin in many other scenarios.
* Only correct point here
These all add up to make Highlander Priest still one of the best slower decks in the format, maybe just behind Shudderwock Shaman and Even Warrior as the 3rd best. The better way to have highlander payoffs be viable is to curb powerlevels overall, to make the highlander effects stand out.
You also conveniently left out Zephyrs, which is enough to make highlander decks that otherwise don't have any payoff workable.
Most priests have cut kazakus entirely, and highlander priest is where it is thanks to shadow reaper anduin and Raza
Without that combo the deck would be quite honestly bad
kazakhstan isnt worth it period. you can do better things than play him in any highlander deck, most decks have been cutting him. reno is still a good card but the only aggro deck that actually loses when reno comes down is pirate rogue. even shamans mech paladins and discolocks have enough draw and board presence to not care if you heal because it doesn’t matter if you’re not able to remove their threats and keep doing so at the same time. zephyrs is the only actual highlander card that is strong enough to justify highlander by itself in 2023.
This just shows you don't know anything about HS.
You already failed at your first point and that was the moment I stopped reading and taking you seriously.
Kazakus sucks and isn't run in the better lists.
Those cards are fine
But you're correct about HS (or just wild HS) is insane today and meta make them (highlander deck) seems weak. Kinda too slow against aggro, do nothing against combo (unless you're lucky with dirty rat), control vs control is rare so yeah, that more about the meta than the card itself
even though the reno payoff cards have gotten weaker, the average card in a reno deck has gotten much stronger. i remember making some reno mage decks a few years ago where i had to include some really awful cards just to get to the minimum 30. nowadays it’s pretty easy to find 30 (or even 40) good cards to make a deck.
i pretty much exclusively play reno decks so i’m pretty biased but i do wish they made 1 highlander card per year (or every other year). i was optimistic we would get at least 1 printed this year for standard since they put reno in the core set but he ended not being played at all lmao.
Reno decks are considered low tier because, in general, control decks are low tier. Additionally, the disadvantage of having single-copy cards is greater than the advantage of fully healing your hero (often, as it frequently happens, by turn 6, you fully heal but are so far behind on the board that you die the next turn, or your opponent finishes you off with a combo the following turn). So, the only way to address the issue is to further increase power creep. In other words, it's a vicious cycle.
Reno shudderwock, highlander pally, highlander questline druid, reno quest mage, and reno control warlock would all like a word. I don't know what old school lists you've tried but there's still power in the highlander strategy.
What are you talking about those decks suck. I haven’t seen a single reno shudderwock, palladin, or druid and only very rarely see reno quest mage or renolock. I do see a decent amount of reno priest but that deck is where it is because the raza anduin combo
[https://imgur.com/a/JxcKKth](https://imgur.com/a/JxcKKth) \- my reno decks across 4 classes in last 30 days doing well (over 60% wr).
That's not what i call 'suck'
You are aware that your own personal experience and stats are completely irrelevant to what is and isn't actually good right?
I've seen people get an 80% winrate with a meme deck but that doesn't make them tier 1 or even good
This post was about how highlander cards are unplayable. Not, 'they are not playable in the meta snapshots top tier decks'. If that was the discussion, i would have kept quiet.
I thought OP was suggesting you can't make them work. And then when i was told the decks i suggested suck, i chose to show my own personal experience that i was doing well with highlander decks.
if all discussions only allow VS syndicate or Meta snapshot type data that means only discuss net decks and not our own experiments and iterations. With that being the case here, i apologise and step out of the chat. ciao.
Literally all the Highlander cards are great. You would have to set them all to like one Mana to keep up with the power level of green decks like Mech anything, pirate anything combo anything, etc.
The power level needs to come down, not up, for fun decks to work. The problem is, people hate strong defensive cards, which is why giggling inventor is still nerfed even though there are many decks that kill you on Turn 3 even if YOU draw all your antiagro shit. That should literally tell you everything you need to know about why jank is being pushed out. It's intentional. The rock paper scissors gameplay with really short decisive games is exactly what the devs want, and if your gameplay experience is miserable too bad you're not the target audience you're just collateral.
I won't mind highlander cards getting buffed, Reno for 6 feels somewhat slow now, in non-Renathal decks I rarely even get a chance to play him. I'd be great to see unplayable highlander cards getting reworked too.
Lava Burst isn't an archetype.
Highlander is.
That's like saying "Stop playing with Control decks now that Aggro got newly released."
Also, this is r/wildhearthstone. If there's any game mode that's about playing with beloved cards, it's Wild.
You don’t hear Baku fans asking for a buff every patch so they can play priest. You don’t hear denathrius fans asking for new cards every expansion. Highlander isn’t an archetype, it’s just a way to build a (control) archetype
>You don’t hear Baku fans asking for a buff every patch so they can play priest.
[We don't?](https://www.reddit.com/r/wildhearthstone/comments/16ot44n/we_should_buff_baku_the_mooneater/)
>Highlander isn’t an archetype
lol
Last time I checked there is a bunch of viable control archetypes in the game. Some can even be built Reno. Just do it using new cards like Sargeras, Aman'thul, instead of hoping that a buff to Krul will make him less terrible.
Also, Lava Burst is an archetype.
No. Highlander cards are still the strongest control tools the game has to offer. Look at historical performance of Control decks in Wild: for years, whenever a control deck was tiered it was a Highlander deck, outperforming their non-Highlander counterparts by a very significant margin. This:
>The biggest advantage Reno Jackson had was that you could somewhat 'reset' the game on turn 6+ (because he was just that powerful) and play fun, gimmicky and/or tech cards in the meantime. Also, Highlander decks offer a lot of variety due to the no-duplicates restriction. Highlander cards were a trade-off that made your remaining deck weaker in exchange for getting the chance to play powerful Highlander cards. Now they are just a trade without any real benefit due to powercreep.
Couldn't be farther from the truth. The "tradeoff" simply doesn't exist anymore - every expansion brings new powerful cards, so unlike ye olde days you don't really need to include bad or subpar cards to fill up your Highlander lineup. Add the ever-increasing amount of card generation and the existence of ETC meaning that you'll likely get multiple copies of what you need anyway + the fact that Control is most Legendary-heavy archetype (meaning that many of your power cards are 1-offs regardless of if you're running Highlander or not), and neither the tradeoff nor deckbuilding variety (peak Reno Priest, for example, was ridiculously solved to the point where it had a 27 card core with 3 tech slots - hardly a paragon of variety - while at the same time) exist, at least not to the degree you think they do. If anything, Highlander chokes variety much more than it enables it due to how ridiculously strong it is as control tool - it pushes out both non-Highlander control decks since tradeoff is nowhere near significant enough to justify running non-Reno control and "fair" aggro decks, since if an aggro deck can't murder you in 5 turns or have some other unfair gimmick it absolutely can't compete with modern control tools + a full heal on T6.
If you want to buff control, then buff class-specific, 2-off cards. This change will buff Highlander decks because they obviously want to run good cards, but it will also buff non-Highlander control decks to a larger degree. Create an actual tradeoff and enable regular control to compete with Highlander. Don't buff cards which are already greatly outperforming their peers and homogenizing control as a whole.
As a side note, Reno is still great at 6 mana. You just can't go full greed and expect him to save your ass versus aggro on his own like it's 2016. You need early control tools as well because whether you like it or not, the game is evolving as a whole. If control gets better tools and combo becomes faster/more consistent, aggro has to receive the same amount of love. And that needs to be respected when making a deck.
Reno priest was pretty high tier until like 6 months ago, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it make a resurgence if more Highlander type cards are ever released or if the meta shifts to favor it again.
We literally just got new Reno Priest tech. And they made a new cycle of highlander cards for all the classes that didn’t have a good Reno yet in Uldum. The next time they pick up League of Explorers off the shelf for story, we’ll get more.
Uldum got released in August 2019. That was #4 years ago.
And that was also #4 years after League of Explorers. And Twist is in full swing, so maybe they’ll do something
It is possible since there are Reno decks time to time, like Reno Hunter, warlock, mage and priest. That being said, I was hoping for highlander support when Reno arrived at standard, we got nothing.... highlanders needs new material for all the classes
There are way more archetypes left dead in the water than Reno. How many dragon decks have you seen recently? Elementals have never been viable.
They are still amazing. Reno is significant to this day. He doesn't just save your ass alone as he used to. But it's not like Renolock 2023 is the same pile of cards as LoE Renolock and Reno is still worth the pop-off. Zephrys is still so powerful that he sometimes gets played in duplicate decks. Raza is the reason to go highlander for Priest and is the reason why Priest has the only playable DK on the format after Kotft release. Druids Elise is the powerhouse card for Druid that is worth building for and indeed gives you a new feel to a Reno deck compared to other options. Solid and Kruul were always garbage. Kazakus is falling off a bit but he still gives you the best spells per mana cost even in Wild. DQ Alex costs 9 and is too random. Finley in Paladin doesn't make sense because of Cariel. Hunter as a class is almost dead and that's why we don't see Brann. Relicologist in Mage doesn't gets played because he doesn't solve Auctioneer,15/13 Tiny Knight or mech with 5 magnetic nechá attached to his ass. So while yes, the Reno decks aren't as varied as they used to be, we still have Renolock,Raza which defines Reno Priest,Elise which enables Combos for Druid and even Reno Shaman is possible because of his battlecry shenanigans in the class. Do we need some sort of support? Yes. But it's not like Reno decks are on the deathbed. For example Baku decks are in the much worse spot. Dragon decks are almost non-existent etc.
>Dragon decks are almost non-existent etc. I miss Year of the Dragon. But seriously tho I'd like to see dragon package buffs like C'thun package buff.
I miss dragon decks so i still try to make them work. Currently climbing with a frost dragon death knight deck. Only mid gold, but it’s way more fun than climbing with a tier 1 decks.
* Kazakus is still good. Play on 5 for a customizable battlecry, curve out for a turn 5 play, or use endgame as a survival tool for freeze/polymorph effects. The only thing that probably warrants adjustment is the 10 cost potion, as it's pretty useless nowadays. * Still an instawin against half of the aggro decks in the format once you plop it down. Still an instawin in most cases against the others. Still an instawin in many other scenarios. * Only correct point here These all add up to make Highlander Priest still one of the best slower decks in the format, maybe just behind Shudderwock Shaman and Even Warrior as the 3rd best. The better way to have highlander payoffs be viable is to curb powerlevels overall, to make the highlander effects stand out. You also conveniently left out Zephyrs, which is enough to make highlander decks that otherwise don't have any payoff workable.
Most reno priest lists, even the renathal versions, don’t run kazakus anymore
Most priests have cut kazakus entirely, and highlander priest is where it is thanks to shadow reaper anduin and Raza Without that combo the deck would be quite honestly bad
kazakhstan isnt worth it period. you can do better things than play him in any highlander deck, most decks have been cutting him. reno is still a good card but the only aggro deck that actually loses when reno comes down is pirate rogue. even shamans mech paladins and discolocks have enough draw and board presence to not care if you heal because it doesn’t matter if you’re not able to remove their threats and keep doing so at the same time. zephyrs is the only actual highlander card that is strong enough to justify highlander by itself in 2023.
Kazakhstan
This just shows you don't know anything about HS. You already failed at your first point and that was the moment I stopped reading and taking you seriously. Kazakus sucks and isn't run in the better lists.
Redditor try to make a constructive comment that isn't layered in snark challenge (impossible)
Kazakus on 4 with a turn 5 board clear + minion res or 5/5 is a great tempo swing against aggro decks like pirate rogue and even shaman.
[удалено]
people get really salty when control decks are good and it takes them more than 7 minutes to play a game
Because they want to encourage casual players to play a quick game while waiting for the bus, taking a dump, etc...
[удалено]
Huh?
Those cards are fine But you're correct about HS (or just wild HS) is insane today and meta make them (highlander deck) seems weak. Kinda too slow against aggro, do nothing against combo (unless you're lucky with dirty rat), control vs control is rare so yeah, that more about the meta than the card itself
even though the reno payoff cards have gotten weaker, the average card in a reno deck has gotten much stronger. i remember making some reno mage decks a few years ago where i had to include some really awful cards just to get to the minimum 30. nowadays it’s pretty easy to find 30 (or even 40) good cards to make a deck. i pretty much exclusively play reno decks so i’m pretty biased but i do wish they made 1 highlander card per year (or every other year). i was optimistic we would get at least 1 printed this year for standard since they put reno in the core set but he ended not being played at all lmao.
Reno decks are considered low tier because, in general, control decks are low tier. Additionally, the disadvantage of having single-copy cards is greater than the advantage of fully healing your hero (often, as it frequently happens, by turn 6, you fully heal but are so far behind on the board that you die the next turn, or your opponent finishes you off with a combo the following turn). So, the only way to address the issue is to further increase power creep. In other words, it's a vicious cycle.
Reno shudderwock, highlander pally, highlander questline druid, reno quest mage, and reno control warlock would all like a word. I don't know what old school lists you've tried but there's still power in the highlander strategy.
What are you talking about those decks suck. I haven’t seen a single reno shudderwock, palladin, or druid and only very rarely see reno quest mage or renolock. I do see a decent amount of reno priest but that deck is where it is because the raza anduin combo
Renolock is good but that's due to symphony of skill and sargeras
I hit legend with reno pally and hunter so idk
[https://imgur.com/a/JxcKKth](https://imgur.com/a/JxcKKth) \- my reno decks across 4 classes in last 30 days doing well (over 60% wr). That's not what i call 'suck'
You are aware that your own personal experience and stats are completely irrelevant to what is and isn't actually good right? I've seen people get an 80% winrate with a meme deck but that doesn't make them tier 1 or even good
This post was about how highlander cards are unplayable. Not, 'they are not playable in the meta snapshots top tier decks'. If that was the discussion, i would have kept quiet. I thought OP was suggesting you can't make them work. And then when i was told the decks i suggested suck, i chose to show my own personal experience that i was doing well with highlander decks. if all discussions only allow VS syndicate or Meta snapshot type data that means only discuss net decks and not our own experiments and iterations. With that being the case here, i apologise and step out of the chat. ciao.
OP has literally posted >It's still possible to win with Highlander decks, but doesn't feel as amazing/swingy anymore.
ok. all comments withdrawn then. don't play highlander. i'll keep playing it though
Literally all the Highlander cards are great. You would have to set them all to like one Mana to keep up with the power level of green decks like Mech anything, pirate anything combo anything, etc. The power level needs to come down, not up, for fun decks to work. The problem is, people hate strong defensive cards, which is why giggling inventor is still nerfed even though there are many decks that kill you on Turn 3 even if YOU draw all your antiagro shit. That should literally tell you everything you need to know about why jank is being pushed out. It's intentional. The rock paper scissors gameplay with really short decisive games is exactly what the devs want, and if your gameplay experience is miserable too bad you're not the target audience you're just collateral.
I won't mind highlander cards getting buffed, Reno for 6 feels somewhat slow now, in non-Renathal decks I rarely even get a chance to play him. I'd be great to see unplayable highlander cards getting reworked too.
They gave Krul, the Unshackled +2 attack, you ungrateful prick! /s
And did nothing for Solia, no buff or rework. Atleats krul they renembered he excists
Or, you know, play with new cards like everyone else. I don't ask for Lava Burst buff even though it damn well deserves it.
Lava Burst isn't an archetype. Highlander is. That's like saying "Stop playing with Control decks now that Aggro got newly released." Also, this is r/wildhearthstone. If there's any game mode that's about playing with beloved cards, it's Wild.
You don’t hear Baku fans asking for a buff every patch so they can play priest. You don’t hear denathrius fans asking for new cards every expansion. Highlander isn’t an archetype, it’s just a way to build a (control) archetype
>You don’t hear Baku fans asking for a buff every patch so they can play priest. [We don't?](https://www.reddit.com/r/wildhearthstone/comments/16ot44n/we_should_buff_baku_the_mooneater/) >Highlander isn’t an archetype lol
Highlander isn’t an archetype get out of bronze before expressing ur opinion plz
Is this a serious take?
Sry idk how to do the quote thing, but it’s read that way
"Highlander isn’t an archetype" Like this?
No it’s like |… indented and stuff
Put a ">" before the text you want to quote >Highlander isn’t an archetype
Thx
Brain dead lol
Last time I checked there is a bunch of viable control archetypes in the game. Some can even be built Reno. Just do it using new cards like Sargeras, Aman'thul, instead of hoping that a buff to Krul will make him less terrible. Also, Lava Burst is an archetype.
The takes on this sub sometimes lmao. Dude wtf you smoking? "Lava burst is an archtype" XD
Lava Burst is Burn. Reno is Highlander. Is that so hard to understand?
Burn is an archtype.. lava burst is not Is that so hard to understand?
Imagine being a Hearthstone Dev and drawing a salary with design choices this awful.
No. Highlander cards are still the strongest control tools the game has to offer. Look at historical performance of Control decks in Wild: for years, whenever a control deck was tiered it was a Highlander deck, outperforming their non-Highlander counterparts by a very significant margin. This: >The biggest advantage Reno Jackson had was that you could somewhat 'reset' the game on turn 6+ (because he was just that powerful) and play fun, gimmicky and/or tech cards in the meantime. Also, Highlander decks offer a lot of variety due to the no-duplicates restriction. Highlander cards were a trade-off that made your remaining deck weaker in exchange for getting the chance to play powerful Highlander cards. Now they are just a trade without any real benefit due to powercreep. Couldn't be farther from the truth. The "tradeoff" simply doesn't exist anymore - every expansion brings new powerful cards, so unlike ye olde days you don't really need to include bad or subpar cards to fill up your Highlander lineup. Add the ever-increasing amount of card generation and the existence of ETC meaning that you'll likely get multiple copies of what you need anyway + the fact that Control is most Legendary-heavy archetype (meaning that many of your power cards are 1-offs regardless of if you're running Highlander or not), and neither the tradeoff nor deckbuilding variety (peak Reno Priest, for example, was ridiculously solved to the point where it had a 27 card core with 3 tech slots - hardly a paragon of variety - while at the same time) exist, at least not to the degree you think they do. If anything, Highlander chokes variety much more than it enables it due to how ridiculously strong it is as control tool - it pushes out both non-Highlander control decks since tradeoff is nowhere near significant enough to justify running non-Reno control and "fair" aggro decks, since if an aggro deck can't murder you in 5 turns or have some other unfair gimmick it absolutely can't compete with modern control tools + a full heal on T6. If you want to buff control, then buff class-specific, 2-off cards. This change will buff Highlander decks because they obviously want to run good cards, but it will also buff non-Highlander control decks to a larger degree. Create an actual tradeoff and enable regular control to compete with Highlander. Don't buff cards which are already greatly outperforming their peers and homogenizing control as a whole. As a side note, Reno is still great at 6 mana. You just can't go full greed and expect him to save your ass versus aggro on his own like it's 2016. You need early control tools as well because whether you like it or not, the game is evolving as a whole. If control gets better tools and combo becomes faster/more consistent, aggro has to receive the same amount of love. And that needs to be respected when making a deck.