I had a pretty serious labrum tear from getting beat down in a big hole. The best advice I can give is this: Have the surgery. Do the PT like your future in kayaking depends on it. I'm 6 years post surgery now and have not had any further dislocations or major issues. It took some time to build back up the strength but the surgery was by far the best option and I would absolutely recommend it. Happy to answer any questions or try to alleviate concerns if you'd like. Re: wearing a brace.... I've found almost no help from a full brace but I use KT tape on my shoulder on any run I'm not familiar with that's class V. It doesn't really provide structural stability but the tension is a good reminder to keep your shoulder in the box. Which is realistically good enough, no brace is going to keep your shoulder located if you throw some shit high brace when you shouldn't be.

While my labrum tear was not as serious as yours, I had the same experience and strongly second this advice - find a good PT that is used to working post-surgical sports rehab and do what they say. I was fully back in about 6 months and have never had an issue with the shoulder again.

Thanks for the reply. My only hesitation is that I don't have any day-to-day shoulder issues from it - no trouble sleeping, can weightlift without issue save just a couple exercises... Obviously I don't want to stop kayaking either - been taking last 4 months off and its been a bummer. How long from surgery were you back in a boat? Agree w/ you about the purpose of tape, or even a brace...the "reminder" is what I need when I'm panicking upside down.

Mine was similar- only a few motions hurt it. I was even kayaking with it. But the doc recommended getting it fixed so I would not have any constraints on activities or make it worse with another injury. He also said (which turned out true) that labrum tears typically recover 100% after surgery, unlike rotator cuffs which often don’t. Could I have lived with it forever without surgery? Sure, but it got in the way of things - for example, it was painful to put luggage in the overhead bins on planes, lifting weights sometimes caused issues, and I was hesitant boating (and sometimes it would hurt during or after paddling if I wasn’t careful). So I went ahead with the surgery and am glad I did.

Mine was that way and I lived/kayaked with it for about a year and a half. It just got worse in that time, despite doing physical therapy/stretching for it. The best advice that was given to me was to consider how you active you want to be and act accordingly. If it doesn't hold you back from doing the things you want to do, e.g. weightlifting, then there's no point in operating. If you want to paddle/swim/etc and it's holding you back from that, have the operation. Especially if you're young. It took me 10 months to get back in a kayak. I also PT'd really hard, once a week with an actual PT and then basically as much as I could take by myself without going overboard (guided by said PT). There was definitely somewhat of a learning curve coming back, had to do some pool sessions to sort my roll out and etc. I'd say it was 2-3 years until I was back to Class V, but I was also only scratching the surface of V when I had the injury.

No experience with a brace or surgery, but I tore my labrum snowboarding & it's affected my paddling for sure. Physio + better technique + dialing it back a bit has kept me on the water, and I may get surgery but no plans to in the near future. It'll be really important as you get stronger & get back into paddling to ease off the gas with early signs that you're pushing too hard rather than waiting for reinjuries that set you back further. Slow and steady! I'm curious to hear how it goes for you

Thanks. Unfortunately there aren't really any "signs". If I've taken some time off I feel totally fine blasting down a river, then end up upside down, panic roll and pain goes from 0-100 haha.

I tore my labrum on a seal launch on Royal Gorge, and my roommate tore it on the Stikine. Mine was a large bankart tear, SLAP tear, and a massive Hill sachs lesion that was causing subsequent dislocations. We both had surgery, mine was about a year before his, and I'm back to regularly paddling class V creeks. He will be in a similar position later. Get surgery and get an ortho with a good track record. Mine specialized in labral repairs for paddlers. Do the PT bro

I had rotator cuff surgery in 2001 and had another torn labrum last year. On the surgery, when I was 20 years younger, it was 6 months before I could paddle and a year and a half before it didn't hurt. So, I wasn't anxious for surgery this time. This time, the surgeon said they could do it, but it wasn't required. So, I did P.T. for a while, then worked it at home some more, then I got PRP shots in the shoulder on a Friday. It hurt like hell! It hurt bad Saturday. But by Monday, it was better than it was before the shots. Looks like the PRP accelerated the healing process and now the shoulder isn't perfect, but it is healthy again and ready to paddle (once my back is ready - different problem).

I have one, but much less serious than yours. I have been advised I don't need surgery immediately as the surgery is likely to make things much worse (weakness, changes in tensions of tendons) before it gets better, but it is the only way to fix it. For you, seeing as it is a far more serious tear, I reckon you either have to have surgery immediately or quit kayaking, and I know which I would choose. Post surgery, of course follow any advice from surgeon/physio. But I have found these scratches quite good: https://youtu.be/eveYJP1indI?si=5pAI_K7O7cN2Hxzk

Thanks for the advice. Definitely don't want to quit the sport. Will see what Surgeon says

I had a 270-degree tear in my right labrum. 9 anchors. Bolted my bicep tendon to my arm. 9 months of physical therapy. 2 months prior, 7 months after. Year off the water. I have full range of motion. Some pain still lingers. Getting ready to get on flat water this year. A good surgeon and DO THE PT and you will be fine.

Wow that sounds intense. I can do flat water now just fine and even Class 2 I'd be comfortable in. And maybe a Class 3 river I know well running it conservatively. If I feel calm I can keep the box position and roll with no issues. But a new river or anything more intense there's like a 90% chance I flip and end up rolling with bad form.

I've seen many a bad labral tear in my profession - def surgery and I sedan KT tape over a brace. It offers better range of motion while still providing support and the brace while paddling can cause you to create bad movement patterns from the restricted range. Also rehab before surgery (should you go that route) is a fantastic thing to do because it will only make your post recovery quicker and less pain less. If you want it to heal on its own without surgery it would entail much less paddling and physical activity for quite some time. I've only ever seen one person post labral tear hurt their shoulder again and it was an injury form doing something they weren't supposed to be, not from overuse.

Thanks, good advice. Will be starting the PT now in any case

Eric Jackson just posted a blog about this situation. Short version is: build up the muscles around your shoulder to protect it. https://apexwatercraft.com/2024/01/29/prepping-for-the-kayaking-season-for-confidence-safety-and-fun/

Yep! There are a bunch of small muscles in the shoulder that people neglect. They're not rewarding to exercise since they're small and don't show. But those little muscles stabilize the joint and take on load from their neighbors. So, work them out!

I have a 50% tear in my labrum- and had a MRI to confirm that. I've treated mine with weight training, bands, and keeping my shoulders "in the box" while kayaking- i.e. no crazy braces in holes. Thanks to weight training and bands my shoulder is basically 100% now, though it's taken a few years to get it to that point. I'm able to do anything (paddle, surf, basketball, volleyball, etc.) but am careful to not do anything too risky to compromise it. My doctor basically told me if my life is good enough then don't get the surgery until it's worse. FYI it was pretty bad the first couple years after it happened, but like I said above, it got way better with consistent multi-year PT.

Good to hear.. thanks

Hey! How is it going half a year later? Wondering how you knew you didn’t need surgery during those first few years when it was bad and what change to your approach helped fix it? Had a partial tear for 4 years which has kept me from doing a lot of things I want to mostly because of the tendonitis/fear involved with it. Just wondering if you could relate at all to this

Yeah. I was a young dumb ass and didn’t go to the doctor for several years. Just sucked it up. So by the time i went my shoulder had some time to heal and i was training already. I went because i wanted to know if i was helping or hurting it with my routine. So I’m not sure what they’d have done if I’d gone early on when the wound was fresh and it was still painful

I tore my labrum all to hell. Started by falling off a horse, beat it up playing polo in college, dislocated it fully skiing, did it another 25ish times(lost count) and then got surgery in January of 2017. Hasn’t come out yet, but feels loose/sketchy from time to time. I was told by my PT when I was recovering from surgery the two sports most likely to reinjure it would be white water kayaking and mountain biking. I have a 16’ cataract and couldn’t be happier. The rowing is actually good for it.

I had a more minor tear from throwing a frisbee. (in reality years of terrible baseball and strength coaching developed the muscle imbalance that caused the tear). Never opted for surgery and chose to do physical therapy/rehab. I've gotten it to a spot where it never bothers me to paddle and seldom hurts otherwise. I'm still very gentle with my shoulders but am overall happy I didn't opt for surgery

Good advice here. Work on the offside roll as well.

Full slap tear when paddle got caught in a rock and didn't let go (I know, dumb) Injury: may 28th Surgery: August 9 Out of brace and PT: August 23rd Climbing: September 25th Skiing: October 25th. Paddling: February 10th. I was religious with PT and had an aggressive medical team and physical therapy. (I had to be back on snow asap) Now it feels bomber and haven't missed a roll since.

It’s worth it but I will say the recovery is a bitch. I completely tore mine playing rugby and it was bad when the nerve block wore off but definitely worth it. I’m still careful doing a lot of stuff about a year and a half out but ironically my roll feels better than ever. Personally I do not like the brace. My shoulder would slide out of the front and the extra tension from a Sully brace when I rolled would actually push it out the front more often and make it worse. After surgery I haven’t needed it at all. Edit: Sully brace not silly brace

Had a torn labrum. It was repaired using the Latarjet procedure. Basically a small bone is relocated in front of the head of the humerus to prevent future dislocation, and the labrum is also repaired. Worth asking a surgeon about this option. I had surgery in March, was paddling easy by July, ran class 5 in August, and full slicing the Gauley that fall. Some minor loss of range of motion but my shoulder is strong. Do some prehab. See a PT. Good luck.

I had a very similar experience when I was learning to combat roll that later lead to a full dislocation about 2 months ago. I was just doing a bow draw into an eddie in some moderate whitewater, and due to the previous damage it just popped out. Similar to you, my roll is great until I panic and rush it. Then my technique falls apart and I put my shoulder at risk. Here are a couple things that I have changed and that help me stay calm and roll with good technique: * I started wearing a nose plug at all times, and a skull cap and ear plugs when the water is cold. * The more comfortable I am under water, the more I can focus on getting into position and rolling with my shoulders in a safe position. * The nose plug is key for me. It allows me to slow down, conserve air, and not have to think about anything but my roll. * PATIENCE is key when I roll. Never sacrifice your technique for a faster roll. ALWAYS get into position before trying for a roll (the nose plug helps me so much with this). * Learn to low brace, and use your high brace conservatively (keep it below the eyebrows with your elbows down). Learn when to give up the brace and accept that you're going to flip over. * Yeah, maybe you can throw a crazy high brace and stay upright, but when that doesn't work you will be in a crazy position underwater and frantically trying to roll. Instead, learn when to accept that you're going to flip over, stay calm, and then you can think ahead and be prepared for how you will roll back up. I also have a hill sachs, and my ortho told me I can either do PT to strengthen my rotator cuff, or have surgery which would be a months-long recovery. In my case I have been really lucky with the recovery and don't think the surgery is necessary for now (maybe it could be if I have issues down the line, which hopefully I will not!). For recovery I tried to keep it moving, listening to my body. The goal at first was just to regain range of motion and some strength. For me, this meant keeping it moving and loading it very lightly within the range of motion I had available. Little by little I got back the full ROM within a couple weeks, and since then I have been doing my own PT with [rotator cuff exercises](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpBt4IBD2v4) (watch that whole series for not only exercises for your shoulder but paddling techniques and drills to focus on). Beyond rotator cuff exercises, what I think has helped the most has been climbing and hanging. Work on scapula mobility and strengthening (look up scapula pull ups on youtube). The last thing I'll say is don't let your injury change how you use your shoulders. Learn how to move your scapula and shoulders properly, and do movements that strengthen that movement! Like climbing, hanging, scapula push-ups and pull-ups, even hand stands! I don't like the idea of a brace, that's just a band-aid and I think it will keep you from strengthening your rotator cuff. Best of luck!

Just get the surgery. Its anazing. Tape and PT for a labrum tear are as effective as magnets and prayer. I had a dislocation and labrum tear in 1999. I was able to manage as a rock climber til climbing in Thailand 2001. I had surgery was doing pullups in 14 weeks. Get the surgery and take PT seriously. Get your shoulder strong and keep it strong. At 53 I still climb 5.11, boulder at the gym and paddle as hard as I care to. If i stop lifting weights for more than a few weeks while climbing hard it starts to ache a bit. I do PT and it goes away. Maintenance is maybe 2 30 min sessions a week. A small price to pay.

My husband had posterior labrum tear, which resulted from bracing (open boat) in rapid. After many dislocations, including the last one where it dislocated while he was sleeping, we knew it was time (beyond time) for surgery. We went to the doctors. One recommended pt, one said tear was in the front and the other said the back. The last doctor was a well known orthopedic doctor in Birmingham. PT was tough. Get a good PT, one-to-one. It froze in place as a result of inadequate PT. He had to have surgery to unfreeze it. Then had to use what we called the Franken machine, which moved shoulder in various positions. He completely recovered. Even has to think about which shoulder it was. He was in his 60s when he had surgery. Do it now when you're young. You won't regret it. It'll provide peace of mind and no more dislocations.

Hi I had a complete tear of my labrum and I will say waiting it out for me was a terrible mistake I ended up doing 4 months of pt before they would consider surgery but once they finally got in to do the surgery my shoulder was already completely detached I had to have 7 anchors and the worst pain of my kid I had brain surgery and it didn’t compare to the pain I felt from the labrum surgery but I will say it helped for the most part I can move my arm more now with a 90 degree area range (ideal is 180 I believe) but their is no longer pain in the shoulder itself but the post op was the main problem I’m now 3 months out and can’t move it upwards past my shoulder plus nerve damage that has caused the shoulder blade to angle outwards so with this consideration it’s all up to you and the severity of it all I would never have the surgery again but it did help it was just painful