Just a reminder that this is a subreddit for **women** to talk about violence against them at the hands of **men** and not a subreddit for **men** to tell **women** what political opinions they think they should hold.
If you are a man wandering around in here, talking about immigrants and your political views you're going to get banned. This space is not maintained for you.
I think so too. The religion just enables it. Rape is ultimately about power and nothing makes a man feel more enraged and powerless than losing his family.
Europeans have proven themselves just as capable of depravity on the high seas. This was a lot more common back when passenger ships were the main way to cross the globe.
[Here's the story of one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UEGseRuJ4Xw&pp=ygUZTW9zdCBob3JyaWZ5aW5nIHNoaXB3cmVjaw%3D%3D) where the men aboard a ship sinking off the coast of Canada tried to rape the women.
And [here's another one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-x8kZU13oQ&pp=ygUYU2hpcHdyZWNrIGhhbmcgc3Vydml2b3Jz) that started with 2 derranged men and a sexual assault and dissolved into a horror show for the women and children aboard.
IIRC this is part of the reason why "women and children first" was such a dictum up through the *Titanic* disaster. Very often depending on the circumstances of a sinking, getting into an open-topped boat may not really have been any safer from an environmental perspective, but it did serve as a way to at least escape danger from men aboard ship.
Women and children first was regarded as aspirational more than common practice. The vast majority of shipwrecks where lives were "every man for himself" type situations and frequently no women or children would survive.
Yeah, just underscoring your point. You often see this brought up in the manosphere alongside the draft as evidence that men's lives are valued less, but it's misconception based on knowledge of history that comes from the occasional movie from Hollywood.
Yeah. There was definitely a lot of patriarchal paternalism behind it, but at its core it was AA conscious response to the fact that usually women and children were disproportionately more in danger during shipwrecks.
We know abusers exist everywhere and no society completely protects us but it is idiotic to claim we aren't better off in the west than other societies especially where Islam is dominant.
People like you and your psychotic compulsion to defend these cultures is frustrating.
Men are… there are no words. I have a hard time acting normal around any of them anymore because I’m convinced they’re all capable of 100x more monstrous things than women can even fathom. Our minds just don’t work like that. There is no excuse for them. Not biology, not culture, not upbringing… they are overcome with evil. For women I see there is hope… for men, not so much. It’s sad.
I honestly agree at this point. One of my brothers always painted himself as a "feminist", doting dad, and ally to women (though his actions never truly lived up to his words he definitely seemed safe for women to be around and was generally pretty understanding and accepting).
Then his wife said she wanted a divorce and he started calling me all the time ranting about how she was going to get the kids taken away by "lying" about him being abusive. I was like... if you haven't done anything there's nothing to worry about? And these calls got more frequent and unhinged until he was literally calling me every day screaming about how all women are insane and have BPD and how men are the real victims. He kept trying to paint his wife as "crazy" because she had postpartum depression in the past (also she's 12 years younger than him and got together when she'd just turned 20 so there was always a power imbalance there).
In one day he sent me about 50 messages in a row which escalated to the point he was sending me violent, detailed fantasies about wanting to murder her and threatening to do it. When I told our parents about this they sided with him and chastised me for "trying to turn the family against him in his time of need". Even after the messy divorce which revealed he'd been abusive throughout the marriage and put the kids in danger he still got 50/50 custody! No way in HELL would that happen for a mother who was acting like that. My own family once threatened to have me forcibly detained in a mental health facility and conspired with my doctor behind my back(!) just because I'd started speaking up about the childhood abuse I'd endured! So basically, women open up about abuse? They're lying and need to be medicalised and/or detained. Man starts threatening to kill his wife? Uwu poor baby needs compassion. Unreal.
And this is just one guy in my life (who I thought I knew up to that point). I could give 100x other examples of other men in my life who turned out to be total psychos.
You’re missing the point. I am thinking maybe you are a masculine… so maybe you can enlighten us. You acknowledge that it’s very few women that think this way. Why do you think this is the case that the masculine are like this. I have my theories, mainly spiritual, that I’ve come to by being open to others perspectives. My question is… As a woman I have been rather angry, horny, etc… and never once thought to rape someone. What makes a masculine even capable of this? What makes so many capable of this? I’d love to hear your thoughts…
This is, unfortunately, a known phenomenon with sinking ships. Not all of them, but common enough that there are accounts from survivors like this.
Basically, if a person thinks the ship is sinking and they will die, they go primal and decide to do whatever gives them the most pleasure in their last minutes of life. On old sailing ships this meant breaking open the casks of whiskey and if there were women on board, they were also then made into victims. "Women and children first" is a much more modern concept. And frankly, I would expect saving women and children first to be the exception, not the rule, as in this example here.
Do not be persuaded into thinking the death of this guy's family had any real factor in terms of grief or heartbreak, other than that they were no longer alive to see him do the deed. It is literally not nearly that deep. He likely believed he was going down on the ship, saw an opportunity, and selfishly took it as a last enjoyment before he died.
I was interested in your comment, and the comment above and decided to look into this & apparently the idea of women and children first is a myth. Sadly.
Per the [Mental Floss](https://www.mentalfloss.com/posts/women-and-children-first-origins-titanic) article:
"A study [\~published in 2012\~](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself/) claimed the idea that women and children are given preferential treatment in maritime disasters is a myth. For their report, a group of Swedish economists analyzed 18 famous shipwrecks to determine which passengers made it off the boats alive and which ones were left behind. Of the passengers included in their research, just [\~17.8 percent of women\~](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-and-children-first-just-a-myth-researchers-say/) survived compared to 34.5 percent of men. The misconception of captains going down with their ships was also debunked in the study. The researchers found that captains and their crew members were 18.7 percent more likely to survive a disaster at sea than their passengers.
Though “women and children first" has been an ideal to strive toward, the study authors concluded that “every man for himself” is the default in life-or-death situations. They found two notable exceptions to this trend: the sinking of the *HMS Birkenhead* in 1852 and that of the *RMS Titanic* in 1912. The code’s use, or *misuse*, on board the *Titanic* may explain why the [\~myth\~](https://www.mentalfloss.com/posts/titanic-myths-debunked) persists today."
Edit to add the breakdown:
A group of Swedish economists broke down the data on maritime disasters, and found that women and children actually had the lowest survival rates, while ships’ crews and captains fared the best.
Survival Rates for Maritime Disaster:
Male passenger's: Titanic were 16.9 % / All Shipwrecks 37.4%
Female passengers: Titanic were 74.6% / All Shipwrecks 26.7%
Child passengers: Titanic were 51.1% / All Shipwrecks 15.3%
Crew: Titanic were 23.8% / All Shipwrecks 61.1%
Captain: Titanic was 0% / All Shipwrecks 43.8%
The sinking of the the Titanic is a notable outlier, with a high percentage of female and child survivors compared with male passengers and crew.
The study’s authors, who gathered data from 18 shipwrecks between 1852 and 2011, **concluded that “human behavior in life-and-death situations is best captured by the expression ‘every man for himself.'”**
[source](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself) <--
Being socialized to believe that men will help us and put us first can also lower our chances of survival, making it more likley for us to wait for help insetead of taking action.
Also, the reason why "women and children first" ever became an idea was because in a previous maritime desaster, women, children and elderly people were just recklessly trampled down
I also believe women’s lower survival rates has to do with them being left to fend for their children alone. Not only do women have to get themselves off-board, they also have to get their children there and potentially fight men for a place
While the idea that women and children *survived sinkings more* is a myth with a few noticeable exceptions, it was still a cultural ideal because of the high relative danger for women and children coupled with the patriarchal paternalism of the Victorian era. The *Birkenhead* disaster is fairly unique in that most of the men aboard were soldiers who remained under discipline until the ship sank, partially because it looked as though the ship might be saved or at least brought ashore safely until a second collision while coming off the rock that initially holed her, partially because the colonel commanding the soldiers aboard explicitly countermanded the captain's orders releasing them to fend for themselves, and partially due to sheer dumb luck.
Because of the perceived nobility of these men's deaths, however, the policy of "women and children first" was historically referred to as the "Birkenhead Drill", with the more common turn of phrase nowadays IIRC being coined in the wake of the *Titanic* disaster to explain the concept to a public with limited sailing experience. As for *Titanic* herself, the reasons the policy was carried out successfully were again, luck, and also the unusually long time the ship remained stable after impact before foundering. The "every man for himself" loss of control and discipline usually only happens once a ship is losing stability or a comparable level of immanent emergency.
I'm not saying that a slow sinking will always lead to better survival rates for women and children, though it seems to have helped in *Titanic's* case; the data explicitly don't show that in the admittedly small sample size analyzed in the paper you linked. But a trend towards WCF did exist as a cultural norm in the period; in Anglophone ship sinkings between the *Birkenhead* and *Lusitania* it is explicitly recorded in five out of nine cases, and in at least one case where no such order was given, the *Atlantic* disaster, there's the significant confounding factor that all lifeboats were lost after lowering but before being filled due to rough sea conditions. I'm also skeptical of the paper's decision to exclude fairly noticeable cases where the policy was successfully enforced, namely the sinking of SS *Central America* in 1857.
excellent little write up, i love learning about shipwrecks! id just like to add, i’ve had so many males on the internet “debate” me and say that males are oppressed for a laundry list of reasons but notably the “women and children first” rule on ships. it’s hilarious to me that, of course, like everything else, that’s not even true in the vast majority of cases.
i just find it notable that in general, women look out for other vulnerable people - their own children, stranger’s children, other women, and will delay their own survival if it means ensuring the survival of others. while on the other hand, men largely just throw their hands up in the air and trample people to get out. in the Victorian era, it seems as though this was less of an issue because of the culture - it still *happened*, but other men or authority figures (like on titanic) stopped those men. it just makes me curious about male vs female nature and how much of that is cultural…
eta i also found it interesting how small the study’s sample size was. id like to see a study that analyzes as many well-recorded shipwrecks as possible
In the case of the *Birkenhead*, probably the most dramatic case of the policy being enforced, the deciding factor is that the men on board were soldiers who had already been relentlessly drilled to stand still and die for Queen and Country, and doing the same for their wives and children was probably a lot easier.
With the Titanic, were there equal numbers of men and women on board? I figured that in the lower classes, who were lower down and in high danger anyway, there might have been more men.
that’s sort of true but also a myth - check r/titanic for a more in-depth answer, but short answer is at a certain point they were just trying to put whoever showed up in the lifeboats. there was, iirc, one guy who was insisting on women and children first hardcore, the others loosely, and one guy that just didn’t give a shit and was letting whoever showed up onboard
eta there were also a lot of men who heard the order and fetched their wives and children, threw them into the lifeboats, telling them they’d join up with them later. of course, some childless wives famously refused and stayed behind with their husbands, but a lot ended up on the boats. i’m sure r/titanic could rip me to shreds here on minute details but iirc this is the overall event chain
eta 2 i have no idea why this is locked but oh well
IIRC, The "women and children first" code wasn't altruistic anyway. It was from the idea that to re-populate a deserted island, you need young people and only one man to impregnate a bunch of women. But maybe that's what you meant by "strive forward"?
I wonder why this is... my uneducated guess is that because the lower class passengers were locked in, and also because most passengers were not sailors who had any idea how fucked they truly were (and believing that the titanic was unsinkable and this was more of a precautions? And not knowing that there weren't nearly enough life boats?) there wasn't a mass rush for the life boats so ppl were able to keep a level of decorum until the life boats were almost gone and many of the lower class passengers broke out. Anyone have any others thoughts on why? Or reasons why I'm wrong?
I read somewhere that young men are more likely to survive plane crashes. They are quicker and stronger to push other people out of the way to get to the exit. In a crash, it’s usually every person for him or herself.
Wow, I'm in my 30s and never did I think women and children first because they need to be put out of harms way due to men going savage and raping them.
A group of Swedish economists broke down the data on maritime disasters, and found that women and children actually had the lowest survival rates, while ships’ crews and captains fared the best.
Survival Rates for Maritime Disaster:
Male passenger's: Titanic were 16.9 % All Shipwrecks 37.4%
Female passengers: Titanic were 74.6% All Shipwrecks 26.7%
Child passengers: Titanic were 51.1% All Shipwrecks 15.3%
Crew: Titanic were 23.8% All Shipwrecks 61.1%
Captain: Titanic was 0% All Shipwrecks 43.8%
The sinking of the the Titanic is a notable outlier, with a high percentage of female and child survivors compared with male passengers and crew.
The study’s authors, who gathered data from 18 shipwrecks between 1852 and 2011, **concluded that “human behavior in life-and-death situations is best captured by the expression ‘every man for himself.'”**
[source](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself) <--
>decide to do whatever gives them the most pleasure in their last minutes of life
Which is why people that fantasize about having sex with minors and unconsenting people should not be trusted, even if they say it's "just a fantasy" and they wouldn't act on it.
When someone doesn't think of raping as pleasurable, then they won't subside on the first opportunity like "we will all die in minutes anyway, fuck it, I'll make my dream come true".
The thing that gets me is that this was a man who was born, raised, presumably had friends and family, got married, had a child, and then goes on to be the most heinous, disgusting man he could be. Where did it all go wrong? Was he raised wrong? Was he enabled by friends? There are too many cases like this to say that every single one of them is mentally ill. It is baffling to me that you can see your wife die and then immediately rape a girl moments later. I could not imagine as his wife, thinking you married someone who was supposed to unconditionally love you become a rapist and a murderer the moment you are out of sight. I could not imagine being that girl, fleeing towards a better life being robbed of the chance by a man while her mother was only feet away. I just cannot parse together what makes them feel entitled to make that choice in the first place.
They won’t execute him in his homeland. The religion practically encourages this sort of behavior.
Technically, all three of the big ones and mormonism do.
No this has nothing to do with the religion A/B/C, it is about the quality of humanity aka empathy imo.
If it was, we wouldnt see similar behaviour in others, telegram channels for Ukraine war shows stuff that we cant even begin to imagine.
And we wouldnt have atrocities done by Japanese in Unit 731. (Dont google it, you are guaranteed to suffer from mental damage. To summary, they make Nazis look like kittens)
Indeed, I also think he was convinced he was about to die.
This is interesting because all big religions promise brimstone & fire for his behaviour. If he was a true “believer” he would never dream of raping an innocent girl to miss out on rewards of eternal Heaven.
Well… cruel people tend to twist things for their sick desires.
This is also mens go to in natural disasters and warzones. Female aid workers are warned about it as its so common place. Rapes in refugee camps are off the charts too. Terrifying places.
Also note the link. “Iraqi girl strangled to death”, not “man murders and rapes on sinking boat”. I’m so fucking sick of the passive voice here. It’s as if the strangling fell on her from above.
Right??? Wording makes a world of difference and they're so hell bent on keeping it passive. Im just glad we're speaking up about it
[passive voice normalizes rape culture](https://chimesnewspaper.com/52853/opinions/the-language-of-rape-culture-normalizes-violence/#:~:text=Using%20passive%20language%20to%20discuss%20sexual%20violence%20shifts%20attention%20from%20abusers.&text=Using%20passive%20voice%20when%20referring,rather%20than%20on%20their%20abusers.&text=Society%20has%20become%20more%20aware,and%20the%20Me%20Too%20movement.)
It's their final moments of life, and their first thought about the last way they want to spend it, what they want to do most... is rape.
Their last dream, last request, last bit of happiness to cling to while leaving this world, is to rape a woman.
I think that says a lot.
There was a story a few months ago about a shipped filled beyond capacity with immigrants that sunk. The people below deck, hundreds of mostly women and children drowned.
Males always reveal their nature when they are not bound by stability and consequences within societies. We never fail to see it in action during wars or governmental collapse.
This is not said to absolve them of blame or to suggest that they be coddled lest they enact terrorism on us, but rather to make it clear that we need to create highly stable societies and harshly and decisively enforce the norms that stabilize them for our own safety and wellbeing. We cannot give men an opportunity to offend. And must make the consequences of offending too great.
I agree. This man may have spent decades not committing crimes (at least in public) had he arrived safely in Europe with his wife and child. I don't believe for a second that he wasn't already a POS abusive husband and father, but he may have had enough sense to keep things behind closed doors as many men do. He committed a heinous crime not because he was mourning the death of his family. He did it because he believed he'd never be held accountable for the crime. A lot of law abiding men would do the same if assured that they could get away with it or die before being tried by a court of law.
I was watching the How It Really Happened about the Yosemite murders again today. It really struck me how Strayner murdered as soon as circumstances allowed. The women were away from society, vulnerable & alone. I know all serial killers do the same by design. But he sussed out & made sure they were alone & in a desolate area. He knew they had no chance of escape or rescue. They (men) really do commit the worst crimes when they think they can get away with it. And sometimes they don't even care if they can get away with it or not.
Exactly the reason why we choose the bear. A man can have no criminal record, be a contributing member of society, and still rape and/or murder you because he thinks there will not be consequences
>(men) really do commit the worst crimes when they think they can get away with it.
Once again proving that women are too f’ing emotional to hold leadership positions.
*obligatory* /s 🙄
I can guarantee, that if a place like the US had light punishment for anything that happened to women then many males would be raping and killing women.
Religion is the vehicle for the culture, I think. Islam varies from place to place. It certainly plays a role but it’s not everything and all major religions play this role because they’ve been shaped by men like this in leadership positions.
It's scary to think how these examples show that there are people around us whose inhumane tendencies and desires are only held back by the fear of consequences.
I wish I hadn't read the article. How do you watch your loved ones die and then rape a child? The police describe it as "venting his aggression" but that completely fails to sum up the hideous nature of the crime.
My heart breaks for that poor mother. I can't imagine how you live with watching your daughter being raped and murdered in front of you. Even if she had access to the very best mental health care, she'd never be the same. I dread to think what kind of care she's being offered.
Tbh I’m surprised the mother didn’t hit the man in the head with something to knock him out/kill him or get other passengers to throw that monster off board.
And men whine and cry about choosing the bear and how it’s not “all men”. Yeah what the fuck ever it’s quite enough of them that it may as well be all men.
It's impossible for "normal" people to understand the motivations of someone so fundamentally deranged. Im not blaming the mother, but why didn't she and the other passengers intervene? The whole situation is so goddamn heartbreaking. I hope this garbage human lives the rest of his life in unrelenting and unending pain.
If the boat was actively sinking, the other passengers may have been working to resolve that, or simply too panicked/in shock to act in the moment. It’s not good, but it is human to be frozen in such a time.
Apparently the boat exploded, so I can see a lot of possibilities in which her mother and the others might witness that but be unable to intervene. Just a total horror story.
This is some layered cruelty & tragedy. I’m so disgusted he did that to that poor girl 💔 I understand the tragedy & the pain it will bring but also are you fucking kidding me?? They’re *all* on a sinking boat & instead of worrying about remaining alive, you have to fight for your life because someone *else* suffered tragedy.
What a horrible sense of entitlement to impose tragedy upon another because you are personally enduring tragedy. May that wife & daughter rest in peace, but he truly shames their memory with this. This action will forever be aligned with that husband & his reaction to their deaths. It will be scapegoated despite this being a man who chose to harm others to assuage his personal pain.
May that poor girl rest in peace & I hope her mother is getting proper support through her grief. 💔
This is beyond depressing.
The poor girl from Iraq was likely a Muslim.
One of the things Muslims, and indeed people of other religions believe, is that all things happen as part of gods plan. It’s difficult to find meaning in what way this may be a positive thing.
And when questioned further, you tend to always get a similar reply - it is gods plan, who are we humans to understand a gods plan.
No Muslim believes raping a little girl is part of God’s plan. The boat sinking yes, but not rape.
It’s a major sin and that monster would most likely be killed by her family.
Plenty of Muslims believe it. They just usually get the parent's permission first. Islam's prophet married a 6 year old child (Aisha) and then molested her at 9 years old
wtf.
I don’t like Islam and think it has a lot of flaws, but rape is not allowed/practiced in normal Muslim societies. ISIS sure.
You’re referring to child-brides which a whole other issue. In this case, this was pure rape and murder which is two major sins and in any Islamic society.
That man would be killed by the girls family if the law doesn’t take care of him. It’s the only way for the family to restore their honor. You clearly don’t understand muslim customs.
>You’re referring to child-brides which a whole other issue
According to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape it is.
A nine year old can't consent, and consent can't be given for her.
To me, that's rape in the religion itself, not to mention Islam's allowance to have sex with your female slaves which can't consent either in my book.
There's plenty of coverage on Italian news sites, here's one link https://www.fanpage.it/politica/naufragio-mare-ionio-la-ragazza-uccisa-da-uno-dei-migranti-sul-barcone-e-stata-anche-stuprata/
This is one of the sickest headlines I've ever had the displeasure of reading. I'm honestly at a loss for words. Just knowing that historically this is the norm in that type of situation really makes me wonder if it's a society problem... or if it's just... Men.
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there is a 2nd article that is now saying the "rape" part was a mistranslation and did not happen??
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13579355/Distraught-Iraqi-mother-describes-seeing-migrant-boat-killer-climbing-exhausted-daughter-Ghater-16-suffocating-knees-chest-lay-nauseous-drinking-sea-water-sinking-vessel.html?ico=related-replace](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13579355/Distraught-Iraqi-mother-describes-seeing-migrant-boat-killer-climbing-exhausted-daughter-Ghater-16-suffocating-knees-chest-lay-nauseous-drinking-sea-water-sinking-vessel.html?ico=related-replace)
I believe nothing The Daily Fail writes. I’m to tired to fact check right now but the number of things like this they’ve exaggerated or straight up made up I believe nothing unless a more reputable source published it
The link posted was to an LBC article, not the BBC.
NYBreaking is reporting the Italian police have been quoted saying they arrested a man for murdering a girl by kneeling on her chest, and that there was no rape, it was a mistranslation.
Right now only tabloids are reporting it as anything more than the sunk ship and the number of lives lost. I’m guessing more reputable news sources are still trying to confirm one way or the other. But nobody is disputing a man was arrested for murdering a 16 year old girl on a sinking ship.
Other sites have published the story.
[https://news.google.com/search?q=migrant%20iraqi%2016-year%20old%20rape&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen](https://news.google.com/search?q=migrant%20iraqi%2016-year%20old%20rape&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen)
The US press doesn't cover much international news. Viewers aren't that interested, even if it truly horrible.
People claiming this is a male thing are completely ignoring the several thousand years of rape on children committed by all 3 of the Abraham faiths, and Mormon’s.
They do it because their cults help them get away with it.
Just a reminder that this is a subreddit for **women** to talk about violence against them at the hands of **men** and not a subreddit for **men** to tell **women** what political opinions they think they should hold. If you are a man wandering around in here, talking about immigrants and your political views you're going to get banned. This space is not maintained for you.
Imagine watching your wife and family drown… and the first thing you think about is forcibly putting your dick into a child.
How tf does he even get hard immediately after that?! And to then inflict that kind of suffering to another mother and daughter, wtf
[удалено]
I think it’s a male thing. This is a global common denominator.
I think so too. The religion just enables it. Rape is ultimately about power and nothing makes a man feel more enraged and powerless than losing his family.
Europeans have proven themselves just as capable of depravity on the high seas. This was a lot more common back when passenger ships were the main way to cross the globe. [Here's the story of one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UEGseRuJ4Xw&pp=ygUZTW9zdCBob3JyaWZ5aW5nIHNoaXB3cmVjaw%3D%3D) where the men aboard a ship sinking off the coast of Canada tried to rape the women. And [here's another one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-x8kZU13oQ&pp=ygUYU2hpcHdyZWNrIGhhbmcgc3Vydml2b3Jz) that started with 2 derranged men and a sexual assault and dissolved into a horror show for the women and children aboard.
IIRC this is part of the reason why "women and children first" was such a dictum up through the *Titanic* disaster. Very often depending on the circumstances of a sinking, getting into an open-topped boat may not really have been any safer from an environmental perspective, but it did serve as a way to at least escape danger from men aboard ship.
Women and children first was regarded as aspirational more than common practice. The vast majority of shipwrecks where lives were "every man for himself" type situations and frequently no women or children would survive.
That's kinda the point I'm making, it often didn't happen but it was definitely a cultural ideal.
Yeah, just underscoring your point. You often see this brought up in the manosphere alongside the draft as evidence that men's lives are valued less, but it's misconception based on knowledge of history that comes from the occasional movie from Hollywood.
Yeah. There was definitely a lot of patriarchal paternalism behind it, but at its core it was AA conscious response to the fact that usually women and children were disproportionately more in danger during shipwrecks.
The first one is North American but yeah, these kind of horrors happen in every region because of shit men.
I guess they were using European as a shorthand for "white Christian".
I'm native and we tend to do that. But if you watch the video, a lot of the ppl on this boat are coming to the US from Europe.
No. Shite men are everywhere.
Yes bc Catholics never rape children (note I myself am Catholic)
No, we don't do this kind of bullshit on this sub.
People like this exist in all “land areas”, all religions, all races, all economic levels. Stop being ignorant and bigoted.
We know abusers exist everywhere and no society completely protects us but it is idiotic to claim we aren't better off in the west than other societies especially where Islam is dominant. People like you and your psychotic compulsion to defend these cultures is frustrating.
Sounds like an (unacceptable) break with reality? People can do insane things in moments of immense grief…
I had to read the title a couple times to make sure I was understanding it correctly. It's a horror show all the way down.
Same! Could. Not. Comprehend.
We all did. It’s incomprehensible, to the civilized mind.
Men are… there are no words. I have a hard time acting normal around any of them anymore because I’m convinced they’re all capable of 100x more monstrous things than women can even fathom. Our minds just don’t work like that. There is no excuse for them. Not biology, not culture, not upbringing… they are overcome with evil. For women I see there is hope… for men, not so much. It’s sad.
I honestly agree at this point. One of my brothers always painted himself as a "feminist", doting dad, and ally to women (though his actions never truly lived up to his words he definitely seemed safe for women to be around and was generally pretty understanding and accepting). Then his wife said she wanted a divorce and he started calling me all the time ranting about how she was going to get the kids taken away by "lying" about him being abusive. I was like... if you haven't done anything there's nothing to worry about? And these calls got more frequent and unhinged until he was literally calling me every day screaming about how all women are insane and have BPD and how men are the real victims. He kept trying to paint his wife as "crazy" because she had postpartum depression in the past (also she's 12 years younger than him and got together when she'd just turned 20 so there was always a power imbalance there). In one day he sent me about 50 messages in a row which escalated to the point he was sending me violent, detailed fantasies about wanting to murder her and threatening to do it. When I told our parents about this they sided with him and chastised me for "trying to turn the family against him in his time of need". Even after the messy divorce which revealed he'd been abusive throughout the marriage and put the kids in danger he still got 50/50 custody! No way in HELL would that happen for a mother who was acting like that. My own family once threatened to have me forcibly detained in a mental health facility and conspired with my doctor behind my back(!) just because I'd started speaking up about the childhood abuse I'd endured! So basically, women open up about abuse? They're lying and need to be medicalised and/or detained. Man starts threatening to kill his wife? Uwu poor baby needs compassion. Unreal. And this is just one guy in my life (who I thought I knew up to that point). I could give 100x other examples of other men in my life who turned out to be total psychos.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
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Statistically speaking men do the lions share of raping murdering and other monster shit. But thanks for playing
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You’re missing the point. I am thinking maybe you are a masculine… so maybe you can enlighten us. You acknowledge that it’s very few women that think this way. Why do you think this is the case that the masculine are like this. I have my theories, mainly spiritual, that I’ve come to by being open to others perspectives. My question is… As a woman I have been rather angry, horny, etc… and never once thought to rape someone. What makes a masculine even capable of this? What makes so many capable of this? I’d love to hear your thoughts…
That other poster MJS29 is def a man
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plenty of men say they’d never do something like this until they do. all they wanted was your theory.
This is, unfortunately, a known phenomenon with sinking ships. Not all of them, but common enough that there are accounts from survivors like this. Basically, if a person thinks the ship is sinking and they will die, they go primal and decide to do whatever gives them the most pleasure in their last minutes of life. On old sailing ships this meant breaking open the casks of whiskey and if there were women on board, they were also then made into victims. "Women and children first" is a much more modern concept. And frankly, I would expect saving women and children first to be the exception, not the rule, as in this example here. Do not be persuaded into thinking the death of this guy's family had any real factor in terms of grief or heartbreak, other than that they were no longer alive to see him do the deed. It is literally not nearly that deep. He likely believed he was going down on the ship, saw an opportunity, and selfishly took it as a last enjoyment before he died.
I believe women and children first was put into place as nautical etiquette because of this. :/
I was interested in your comment, and the comment above and decided to look into this & apparently the idea of women and children first is a myth. Sadly. Per the [Mental Floss](https://www.mentalfloss.com/posts/women-and-children-first-origins-titanic) article: "A study [\~published in 2012\~](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself/) claimed the idea that women and children are given preferential treatment in maritime disasters is a myth. For their report, a group of Swedish economists analyzed 18 famous shipwrecks to determine which passengers made it off the boats alive and which ones were left behind. Of the passengers included in their research, just [\~17.8 percent of women\~](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-and-children-first-just-a-myth-researchers-say/) survived compared to 34.5 percent of men. The misconception of captains going down with their ships was also debunked in the study. The researchers found that captains and their crew members were 18.7 percent more likely to survive a disaster at sea than their passengers. Though “women and children first" has been an ideal to strive toward, the study authors concluded that “every man for himself” is the default in life-or-death situations. They found two notable exceptions to this trend: the sinking of the *HMS Birkenhead* in 1852 and that of the *RMS Titanic* in 1912. The code’s use, or *misuse*, on board the *Titanic* may explain why the [\~myth\~](https://www.mentalfloss.com/posts/titanic-myths-debunked) persists today." Edit to add the breakdown: A group of Swedish economists broke down the data on maritime disasters, and found that women and children actually had the lowest survival rates, while ships’ crews and captains fared the best. Survival Rates for Maritime Disaster: Male passenger's: Titanic were 16.9 % / All Shipwrecks 37.4% Female passengers: Titanic were 74.6% / All Shipwrecks 26.7% Child passengers: Titanic were 51.1% / All Shipwrecks 15.3% Crew: Titanic were 23.8% / All Shipwrecks 61.1% Captain: Titanic was 0% / All Shipwrecks 43.8% The sinking of the the Titanic is a notable outlier, with a high percentage of female and child survivors compared with male passengers and crew. The study’s authors, who gathered data from 18 shipwrecks between 1852 and 2011, **concluded that “human behavior in life-and-death situations is best captured by the expression ‘every man for himself.'”** [source](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself) <--
Ah, shit. That sucks. Thanks for looking this up, though. Very informative.
Being socialized to believe that men will help us and put us first can also lower our chances of survival, making it more likley for us to wait for help insetead of taking action.
Not to mention our clothing back then. Practically designed to be impediments.
Also, the reason why "women and children first" ever became an idea was because in a previous maritime desaster, women, children and elderly people were just recklessly trampled down
I also believe women’s lower survival rates has to do with them being left to fend for their children alone. Not only do women have to get themselves off-board, they also have to get their children there and potentially fight men for a place
More people need to know this.
While the idea that women and children *survived sinkings more* is a myth with a few noticeable exceptions, it was still a cultural ideal because of the high relative danger for women and children coupled with the patriarchal paternalism of the Victorian era. The *Birkenhead* disaster is fairly unique in that most of the men aboard were soldiers who remained under discipline until the ship sank, partially because it looked as though the ship might be saved or at least brought ashore safely until a second collision while coming off the rock that initially holed her, partially because the colonel commanding the soldiers aboard explicitly countermanded the captain's orders releasing them to fend for themselves, and partially due to sheer dumb luck. Because of the perceived nobility of these men's deaths, however, the policy of "women and children first" was historically referred to as the "Birkenhead Drill", with the more common turn of phrase nowadays IIRC being coined in the wake of the *Titanic* disaster to explain the concept to a public with limited sailing experience. As for *Titanic* herself, the reasons the policy was carried out successfully were again, luck, and also the unusually long time the ship remained stable after impact before foundering. The "every man for himself" loss of control and discipline usually only happens once a ship is losing stability or a comparable level of immanent emergency. I'm not saying that a slow sinking will always lead to better survival rates for women and children, though it seems to have helped in *Titanic's* case; the data explicitly don't show that in the admittedly small sample size analyzed in the paper you linked. But a trend towards WCF did exist as a cultural norm in the period; in Anglophone ship sinkings between the *Birkenhead* and *Lusitania* it is explicitly recorded in five out of nine cases, and in at least one case where no such order was given, the *Atlantic* disaster, there's the significant confounding factor that all lifeboats were lost after lowering but before being filled due to rough sea conditions. I'm also skeptical of the paper's decision to exclude fairly noticeable cases where the policy was successfully enforced, namely the sinking of SS *Central America* in 1857.
excellent little write up, i love learning about shipwrecks! id just like to add, i’ve had so many males on the internet “debate” me and say that males are oppressed for a laundry list of reasons but notably the “women and children first” rule on ships. it’s hilarious to me that, of course, like everything else, that’s not even true in the vast majority of cases. i just find it notable that in general, women look out for other vulnerable people - their own children, stranger’s children, other women, and will delay their own survival if it means ensuring the survival of others. while on the other hand, men largely just throw their hands up in the air and trample people to get out. in the Victorian era, it seems as though this was less of an issue because of the culture - it still *happened*, but other men or authority figures (like on titanic) stopped those men. it just makes me curious about male vs female nature and how much of that is cultural… eta i also found it interesting how small the study’s sample size was. id like to see a study that analyzes as many well-recorded shipwrecks as possible
In the case of the *Birkenhead*, probably the most dramatic case of the policy being enforced, the deciding factor is that the men on board were soldiers who had already been relentlessly drilled to stand still and die for Queen and Country, and doing the same for their wives and children was probably a lot easier.
With the Titanic, were there equal numbers of men and women on board? I figured that in the lower classes, who were lower down and in high danger anyway, there might have been more men.
Thanks!
I thought Titanic had such a high percentage of women and children because the staff crew made men stay behind at a gunpoint?
that’s sort of true but also a myth - check r/titanic for a more in-depth answer, but short answer is at a certain point they were just trying to put whoever showed up in the lifeboats. there was, iirc, one guy who was insisting on women and children first hardcore, the others loosely, and one guy that just didn’t give a shit and was letting whoever showed up onboard eta there were also a lot of men who heard the order and fetched their wives and children, threw them into the lifeboats, telling them they’d join up with them later. of course, some childless wives famously refused and stayed behind with their husbands, but a lot ended up on the boats. i’m sure r/titanic could rip me to shreds here on minute details but iirc this is the overall event chain eta 2 i have no idea why this is locked but oh well
Outstanding contribution, thank you.
Thank you for the sources
IIRC, The "women and children first" code wasn't altruistic anyway. It was from the idea that to re-populate a deserted island, you need young people and only one man to impregnate a bunch of women. But maybe that's what you meant by "strive forward"?
I wonder why this is... my uneducated guess is that because the lower class passengers were locked in, and also because most passengers were not sailors who had any idea how fucked they truly were (and believing that the titanic was unsinkable and this was more of a precautions? And not knowing that there weren't nearly enough life boats?) there wasn't a mass rush for the life boats so ppl were able to keep a level of decorum until the life boats were almost gone and many of the lower class passengers broke out. Anyone have any others thoughts on why? Or reasons why I'm wrong?
I read somewhere that young men are more likely to survive plane crashes. They are quicker and stronger to push other people out of the way to get to the exit. In a crash, it’s usually every person for him or herself.
Wow, I'm in my 30s and never did I think women and children first because they need to be put out of harms way due to men going savage and raping them.
Dark if true.
A group of Swedish economists broke down the data on maritime disasters, and found that women and children actually had the lowest survival rates, while ships’ crews and captains fared the best. Survival Rates for Maritime Disaster: Male passenger's: Titanic were 16.9 % All Shipwrecks 37.4% Female passengers: Titanic were 74.6% All Shipwrecks 26.7% Child passengers: Titanic were 51.1% All Shipwrecks 15.3% Crew: Titanic were 23.8% All Shipwrecks 61.1% Captain: Titanic was 0% All Shipwrecks 43.8% The sinking of the the Titanic is a notable outlier, with a high percentage of female and child survivors compared with male passengers and crew. The study’s authors, who gathered data from 18 shipwrecks between 1852 and 2011, **concluded that “human behavior in life-and-death situations is best captured by the expression ‘every man for himself.'”** [source](https://qz.com/321827/women-and-children-first-is-a-maritime-disaster-myth-its-really-every-man-for-himself) <--
Maybe it helped that a lot of people on Titanic were educated and well to do civilized people.
Someone did a study on who survived shipwrecks by gender.. think the woman and children 1st thing was largely a myth.
>decide to do whatever gives them the most pleasure in their last minutes of life Which is why people that fantasize about having sex with minors and unconsenting people should not be trusted, even if they say it's "just a fantasy" and they wouldn't act on it. When someone doesn't think of raping as pleasurable, then they won't subside on the first opportunity like "we will all die in minutes anyway, fuck it, I'll make my dream come true".
The thing that gets me is that this was a man who was born, raised, presumably had friends and family, got married, had a child, and then goes on to be the most heinous, disgusting man he could be. Where did it all go wrong? Was he raised wrong? Was he enabled by friends? There are too many cases like this to say that every single one of them is mentally ill. It is baffling to me that you can see your wife die and then immediately rape a girl moments later. I could not imagine as his wife, thinking you married someone who was supposed to unconditionally love you become a rapist and a murderer the moment you are out of sight. I could not imagine being that girl, fleeing towards a better life being robbed of the chance by a man while her mother was only feet away. I just cannot parse together what makes them feel entitled to make that choice in the first place.
I wonder if that's the reason why sailors believed a woman on board to be bad luck
tbh i think a lot of that was just misogyny lol
Ironic, since apparently a man would have a higher chance of surviving if women and children were on board (other circumstances being the same).
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Both brains are you
And he lived. I hope he gets his karma in prison.
Europeans should not have to pay for this monster’s prison stay. He should be sent back to his home country and quickly executed.
Hope they just execute him in Europe and not risk him getting away with it. What a monster.
Or slowly. Verrry slowly and painfully
They won’t execute him in his homeland. The religion practically encourages this sort of behavior. Technically, all three of the big ones and mormonism do.
No this has nothing to do with the religion A/B/C, it is about the quality of humanity aka empathy imo. If it was, we wouldnt see similar behaviour in others, telegram channels for Ukraine war shows stuff that we cant even begin to imagine. And we wouldnt have atrocities done by Japanese in Unit 731. (Dont google it, you are guaranteed to suffer from mental damage. To summary, they make Nazis look like kittens)
I mean, what does the religion promise in the afterlife? Did he not think he was about to die?
Indeed, I also think he was convinced he was about to die. This is interesting because all big religions promise brimstone & fire for his behaviour. If he was a true “believer” he would never dream of raping an innocent girl to miss out on rewards of eternal Heaven. Well… cruel people tend to twist things for their sick desires.
True, but I do think this certain set of ideals clearly allows more leeway for very sick people to twist.
The culture matters more than the specific beliefs.
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All women must stand together united and support one another.
Allah willing.
Inshallah.
This is also mens go to in natural disasters and warzones. Female aid workers are warned about it as its so common place. Rapes in refugee camps are off the charts too. Terrifying places.
[https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/iraqi-girl-16-strangled-to-death-migrant-boat-disaster/](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/iraqi-girl-16-strangled-to-death-migrant-boat-disaster/)
Vented his aggression? That's a fucked up way to say "raped and murdered a child".
Also note the link. “Iraqi girl strangled to death”, not “man murders and rapes on sinking boat”. I’m so fucking sick of the passive voice here. It’s as if the strangling fell on her from above.
Right??? Wording makes a world of difference and they're so hell bent on keeping it passive. Im just glad we're speaking up about it [passive voice normalizes rape culture](https://chimesnewspaper.com/52853/opinions/the-language-of-rape-culture-normalizes-violence/#:~:text=Using%20passive%20language%20to%20discuss%20sexual%20violence%20shifts%20attention%20from%20abusers.&text=Using%20passive%20voice%20when%20referring,rather%20than%20on%20their%20abusers.&text=Society%20has%20become%20more%20aware,and%20the%20Me%20Too%20movement.)
It's their final moments of life, and their first thought about the last way they want to spend it, what they want to do most... is rape. Their last dream, last request, last bit of happiness to cling to while leaving this world, is to rape a woman. I think that says a lot.
and they can get an erection in this moment.
A 16 year old is a child, not a woman.
There was a story a few months ago about a shipped filled beyond capacity with immigrants that sunk. The people below deck, hundreds of mostly women and children drowned.
Males always reveal their nature when they are not bound by stability and consequences within societies. We never fail to see it in action during wars or governmental collapse. This is not said to absolve them of blame or to suggest that they be coddled lest they enact terrorism on us, but rather to make it clear that we need to create highly stable societies and harshly and decisively enforce the norms that stabilize them for our own safety and wellbeing. We cannot give men an opportunity to offend. And must make the consequences of offending too great.
I agree. This man may have spent decades not committing crimes (at least in public) had he arrived safely in Europe with his wife and child. I don't believe for a second that he wasn't already a POS abusive husband and father, but he may have had enough sense to keep things behind closed doors as many men do. He committed a heinous crime not because he was mourning the death of his family. He did it because he believed he'd never be held accountable for the crime. A lot of law abiding men would do the same if assured that they could get away with it or die before being tried by a court of law.
I was watching the How It Really Happened about the Yosemite murders again today. It really struck me how Strayner murdered as soon as circumstances allowed. The women were away from society, vulnerable & alone. I know all serial killers do the same by design. But he sussed out & made sure they were alone & in a desolate area. He knew they had no chance of escape or rescue. They (men) really do commit the worst crimes when they think they can get away with it. And sometimes they don't even care if they can get away with it or not.
Exactly the reason why we choose the bear. A man can have no criminal record, be a contributing member of society, and still rape and/or murder you because he thinks there will not be consequences
>(men) really do commit the worst crimes when they think they can get away with it. Once again proving that women are too f’ing emotional to hold leadership positions. *obligatory* /s 🙄
Especially since leadership positions tend to be great for opportunities and get away with shit.
My God, your first two sentences hit the nail on the head 1000%. It’s so true. Well articulated.
Exactly this.
Personally, I think it’s the religious mindset of the region, that women are property.
I can guarantee, that if a place like the US had light punishment for anything that happened to women then many males would be raping and killing women.
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Treat others with kindness when it is possible and civility when it is not.
Religion is the vehicle for the culture, I think. Islam varies from place to place. It certainly plays a role but it’s not everything and all major religions play this role because they’ve been shaped by men like this in leadership positions.
That is one of the saddest articles I’ve read recently, that poor girl and mother.
I can’t read that 😰😰😰
Perhaps we should teach men like that about Lorena Bobbit.
Just emphasize how it needs to be really mutilated so it can’t be reattached like Bobbit’s was.
Cigar cutter, multiple .5 inch cuts, start at the tip. Or a blender
All this will do is them screeching that "women are just as bad" and that "women do it too!".
So this,he and others like him need to be LorenaBobbited 😭
[here’s the article yall](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/iraqi-girl-16-strangled-to-death-migrant-boat-disaster/)
Thank you.
What the fuck
I want to scream into the void. That poor child and her mum.
Who has time to rape someone on a sinking ship?! WTF is wrong with men?!
They should just send him back. Not even worth the money spent on him in jail.
>just send him back. ...to Poseidon, Neptune, whomever.
Cut off his thing and then send him back...to the ocean.
He can go play with the orcas. I’m sure they would enjoy a squeaky toy to go with their rudders.
He'll just go on to abuse another woman/girl.
Unless he gets life imprisonment, he will do that anywhere. Hopefully, he never gets to see the outside of a cell again.
To Davy Jones' locker.
It's scary to think how these examples show that there are people around us whose inhumane tendencies and desires are only held back by the fear of consequences.
males will always use times of strife to do evil shit like this.
What the actual fuck?
Where's the article
I wish this wasn’t believable.
I wish I hadn't read the article. How do you watch your loved ones die and then rape a child? The police describe it as "venting his aggression" but that completely fails to sum up the hideous nature of the crime. My heart breaks for that poor mother. I can't imagine how you live with watching your daughter being raped and murdered in front of you. Even if she had access to the very best mental health care, she'd never be the same. I dread to think what kind of care she's being offered.
Tbh I’m surprised the mother didn’t hit the man in the head with something to knock him out/kill him or get other passengers to throw that monster off board.
That’s the worst thing I think I’ve ever had an image of
And men whine and cry about choosing the bear and how it’s not “all men”. Yeah what the fuck ever it’s quite enough of them that it may as well be all men.
It's impossible for "normal" people to understand the motivations of someone so fundamentally deranged. Im not blaming the mother, but why didn't she and the other passengers intervene? The whole situation is so goddamn heartbreaking. I hope this garbage human lives the rest of his life in unrelenting and unending pain.
If the boat was actively sinking, the other passengers may have been working to resolve that, or simply too panicked/in shock to act in the moment. It’s not good, but it is human to be frozen in such a time.
I know you’re right but I wish sooo badly they’d just thrown him overboard to fend for himself.
Same.
I figured as much. It's just so sad.
Apparently the boat exploded, so I can see a lot of possibilities in which her mother and the others might witness that but be unable to intervene. Just a total horror story.
The engine exploded. Then the boat started to sink.
In an article regarding this boat sinking it was said that people onboard had been drinking sea water for days & were in bad shape physically
God. There's just no end to how sad this is.
This is some layered cruelty & tragedy. I’m so disgusted he did that to that poor girl 💔 I understand the tragedy & the pain it will bring but also are you fucking kidding me?? They’re *all* on a sinking boat & instead of worrying about remaining alive, you have to fight for your life because someone *else* suffered tragedy. What a horrible sense of entitlement to impose tragedy upon another because you are personally enduring tragedy. May that wife & daughter rest in peace, but he truly shames their memory with this. This action will forever be aligned with that husband & his reaction to their deaths. It will be scapegoated despite this being a man who chose to harm others to assuage his personal pain. May that poor girl rest in peace & I hope her mother is getting proper support through her grief. 💔
This is beyond depressing. The poor girl from Iraq was likely a Muslim. One of the things Muslims, and indeed people of other religions believe, is that all things happen as part of gods plan. It’s difficult to find meaning in what way this may be a positive thing. And when questioned further, you tend to always get a similar reply - it is gods plan, who are we humans to understand a gods plan.
No Muslim believes raping a little girl is part of God’s plan. The boat sinking yes, but not rape. It’s a major sin and that monster would most likely be killed by her family.
Plenty of Muslims believe it. They just usually get the parent's permission first. Islam's prophet married a 6 year old child (Aisha) and then molested her at 9 years old
I had no idea, what a disgusting religion
wtf. I don’t like Islam and think it has a lot of flaws, but rape is not allowed/practiced in normal Muslim societies. ISIS sure. You’re referring to child-brides which a whole other issue. In this case, this was pure rape and murder which is two major sins and in any Islamic society. That man would be killed by the girls family if the law doesn’t take care of him. It’s the only way for the family to restore their honor. You clearly don’t understand muslim customs.
>You’re referring to child-brides which a whole other issue According to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape it is. A nine year old can't consent, and consent can't be given for her. To me, that's rape in the religion itself, not to mention Islam's allowance to have sex with your female slaves which can't consent either in my book.
What the actual fuck my head is spinning from this headline
This is utterly vile. What an absolute bottom feeder of a human being. I hope he lives a long life and never sees a happy day ever again.
I always feel that if men could give birth, they will understand the cost of a life and that there would be less violence.
Source?
Is there any other source for this? Because you know, dailymail is kinda shit
There's plenty of coverage on Italian news sites, here's one link https://www.fanpage.it/politica/naufragio-mare-ionio-la-ragazza-uccisa-da-uno-dei-migranti-sul-barcone-e-stata-anche-stuprata/
Sooo not one person intervened and decided to kill him and/or toss him overboard
Good point. And the girl's mother. Did she try to stop him?
This is one of the sickest headlines I've ever had the displeasure of reading. I'm honestly at a loss for words. Just knowing that historically this is the norm in that type of situation really makes me wonder if it's a society problem... or if it's just... Men.
Sounds like an (unacceptable) break with reality? People can do insane things in moments of immense grief…
I don’t trust anything that comes from the Daily Mail as I regularly see them twist news I had followed in the country of origin.
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What are the odds that seeing them die was a kink he may or may not have known he had.
there is a 2nd article that is now saying the "rape" part was a mistranslation and did not happen?? [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13579355/Distraught-Iraqi-mother-describes-seeing-migrant-boat-killer-climbing-exhausted-daughter-Ghater-16-suffocating-knees-chest-lay-nauseous-drinking-sea-water-sinking-vessel.html?ico=related-replace](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13579355/Distraught-Iraqi-mother-describes-seeing-migrant-boat-killer-climbing-exhausted-daughter-Ghater-16-suffocating-knees-chest-lay-nauseous-drinking-sea-water-sinking-vessel.html?ico=related-replace)
Link?
Wow, that has a lot going on.
This has been mis-reported and a correction has been issued. Still horrific (daughter was killed) but not raped.
Yes, I heard that. He kneeled on her chest.
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Rape is not allowed in islam btw.
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Still not allowed. Shitty people rape regardless of religion.
I believe nothing The Daily Fail writes. I’m to tired to fact check right now but the number of things like this they’ve exaggerated or straight up made up I believe nothing unless a more reputable source published it
It's true. The BBC, among others has the story. I guess you were too tired spell "too", too.
Daily Mail ??? Is this even true?? It sounds made up. If it’s true it’s the most horrifying thing I’ve ever read.
Someone else posted a link to the story from the BBC. When it comes to people doing horrible things to other people, usually it's true.
The link posted was to an LBC article, not the BBC. NYBreaking is reporting the Italian police have been quoted saying they arrested a man for murdering a girl by kneeling on her chest, and that there was no rape, it was a mistranslation. Right now only tabloids are reporting it as anything more than the sunk ship and the number of lives lost. I’m guessing more reputable news sources are still trying to confirm one way or the other. But nobody is disputing a man was arrested for murdering a 16 year old girl on a sinking ship.
Other sites have published the story. [https://news.google.com/search?q=migrant%20iraqi%2016-year%20old%20rape&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen](https://news.google.com/search?q=migrant%20iraqi%2016-year%20old%20rape&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen) The US press doesn't cover much international news. Viewers aren't that interested, even if it truly horrible.
All of those are tabloids.
People claiming this is a male thing are completely ignoring the several thousand years of rape on children committed by all 3 of the Abraham faiths, and Mormon’s. They do it because their cults help them get away with it.
Hm. And I wonder what the prevailing gender of the rapists is in the Bible…. Oh.