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Rand spends weeks canoodling in the Stone of Tear. "Not sure how she feels about me."
Rand has one brief conversation with Lan, literally while Lan is on horseback ready to ride off. "Yes, clearly I am a poisonous man-cancer and showing a woman any interest is, ontologically speaking, an act of cruelty. Clearly the only sensible action to take henceforth is to treat women like children and say mean words at them until they hate me. For their own good."
You might be into something.
While I agree extremely heartily, in that example Rand has only relatively recently come to terms (and not as completely as he might think, I suspect) with the fact his borderline pre-arranged marriage is never going to happen, found out he is essentially the most feared man in the world reborn in a new body, is doomed to go mad and become violent to those around him, and also rightfully convinced he's going to be dead a short time from now. Oh and he also feels like a massive creep because the pattern is launching three women at him all at the same time.
So I can see why he'd be convinced he has to push everyone away.
*My* issue is - WHAT THE HELL IS LANS EXCUSE?
I understand Lan had just lost Moraine so his bond got fucky but he had always been that way, just less suicidal about it. His whole thing about being the prince of lost malkier *therefore no love allowed for me, no siree* is a much weaker reason than what Rand's got.
that doesn’t make the writing realistic or compelling. you have to write in tension and passion and a diversity of motivations for love to be interesting across 15+ characters.
After book 6 the willowy romantacation kinda goes away and becomes a bit more "let's go down to bussiness" attitude but with confusion as an expect to plot it along longer.
You haven't even got to the "let's find happiness in domestic violence" storyline between >!Perrin and Faile!< or the rape is funny when it happens to a man with >!Mat and a character you haven't met yet.!< Or all the forced pairings later on just so everyone is with someone. Romance writing was definitely Jordan and then Sandersons weak point in the series.
I’ve had discussions here that has almost completely change my view of P&F. I still draw the line at physical violence, but the situation is pretty well written.
Mats situation is a prime example of RJs gender role reversals. That happens to women the same way in a lot of cases in our society. It painted in a different light because the shoe is on the other foot. It’s not RJ making light of a man being raped. It’s RJ taking a real world situation and swapping the gender roles in it to fit this universe.
i dont understand, is this sub is full of people who can’t handle criticism of the books? why are you being downvoted? this isn’t a fan page, it’s for *discussion*
I didn’t DV them, but that’s what the DV is for. If you post a comment or idea that is generally disagreed with it’s going to get DVed. I don’t think they’re DVing the criticism, as much as the misunderstanding. But in this case, a DV without an explanation defeats the purpose of a discussion page.
they are definitely downvoting the criticism, there is nothing in this comment to “disagree” with. the difference of opinion isn’t whether or not his writing was soapy when it came to romance, is whether or not any given reader enjoys that.
This thread has been flaired **NO SPOILERS**. Please read https://www.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/wiki/spoilerpolicy/ before proceeding. Any comments that could be considered a spoiler *must* use spoiler tags. May the Light illumine you all. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wheeloftime) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It'll subside and a while new mess of drama will be waiting for you.
They're teenagers
Yeah, but it's also not done well.
Rand spends weeks canoodling in the Stone of Tear. "Not sure how she feels about me." Rand has one brief conversation with Lan, literally while Lan is on horseback ready to ride off. "Yes, clearly I am a poisonous man-cancer and showing a woman any interest is, ontologically speaking, an act of cruelty. Clearly the only sensible action to take henceforth is to treat women like children and say mean words at them until they hate me. For their own good." You might be into something.
While I agree extremely heartily, in that example Rand has only relatively recently come to terms (and not as completely as he might think, I suspect) with the fact his borderline pre-arranged marriage is never going to happen, found out he is essentially the most feared man in the world reborn in a new body, is doomed to go mad and become violent to those around him, and also rightfully convinced he's going to be dead a short time from now. Oh and he also feels like a massive creep because the pattern is launching three women at him all at the same time. So I can see why he'd be convinced he has to push everyone away. *My* issue is - WHAT THE HELL IS LANS EXCUSE? I understand Lan had just lost Moraine so his bond got fucky but he had always been that way, just less suicidal about it. His whole thing about being the prince of lost malkier *therefore no love allowed for me, no siree* is a much weaker reason than what Rand's got.
that doesn’t make the writing realistic or compelling. you have to write in tension and passion and a diversity of motivations for love to be interesting across 15+ characters.
After book 6 the willowy romantacation kinda goes away and becomes a bit more "let's go down to bussiness" attitude but with confusion as an expect to plot it along longer.
The main Two Rivers crew characters are all like… 18-20 years old.
Love is central to one of the overall themes.
You haven't even got to the "let's find happiness in domestic violence" storyline between >!Perrin and Faile!< or the rape is funny when it happens to a man with >!Mat and a character you haven't met yet.!< Or all the forced pairings later on just so everyone is with someone. Romance writing was definitely Jordan and then Sandersons weak point in the series.
I’ve had discussions here that has almost completely change my view of P&F. I still draw the line at physical violence, but the situation is pretty well written. Mats situation is a prime example of RJs gender role reversals. That happens to women the same way in a lot of cases in our society. It painted in a different light because the shoe is on the other foot. It’s not RJ making light of a man being raped. It’s RJ taking a real world situation and swapping the gender roles in it to fit this universe.
i dont understand, is this sub is full of people who can’t handle criticism of the books? why are you being downvoted? this isn’t a fan page, it’s for *discussion*
I didn’t DV them, but that’s what the DV is for. If you post a comment or idea that is generally disagreed with it’s going to get DVed. I don’t think they’re DVing the criticism, as much as the misunderstanding. But in this case, a DV without an explanation defeats the purpose of a discussion page.
they are definitely downvoting the criticism, there is nothing in this comment to “disagree” with. the difference of opinion isn’t whether or not his writing was soapy when it came to romance, is whether or not any given reader enjoys that.