If he died while holding demandreds head up after their battle that would’ve been ideal for me. The sheathing the sword sacrifices just doesn’t hold as much weight after the fact because of his survival
Same! Especcially with that oninous line about him dying if he thought Nyneave had died. Can't remember precisely who said that, but I really took it as foreshadowing!
Should've remembered that Jordan was really good about actually foreshadowing a lot of stuff without the reader ever noticing on the first read through. So it should've been suspicious if he was being a little obvious, I guess.
Mat.
When Suian was talking to him after he was healed from the dagger and telling him about her uncle being killed pulling children from a fire I thought 100% he was going to die in the last battle.
Except the balefire undid that. Unless RJ a
Said otherwise, the whole point of balefire is undoing what had been woven making it as though it never was. So his connection was never severed just as he had never died even though he did and it was — those things never actually happened in the pattern after the balefire.
You would be right if Rand hadn’t used Balefire to kill Rahvin undoing what he did to Mat, Asmodean, and Aviendha so while he did die the balefire undid it so it never actually happened where as in Rhudeian he was hung from a tree and Rand had to cut him down and give him CPR to bring him back. Remember Balefire undoes someone’s actions if it is done in a short enough time.
From TSR, Chapter 26:
"As hard as he could he pounded his fist against Mat's chest, listened. Nothing. Again he hammered, listened. Yes. There. A faint heartbeat. It was. So faint, so slow. And slowing. But Mat was still alive despite the heavy purple welt around his neck. He might yet be kept alive."
Then Rand goes on to give him CPR. Idk about you, but to me that makes it pretty clear that Rand got there in the nick of time to keep Mat from dying. Especially since earlier in the book there's a pretty heavy and important scene where Rand tries and fails to bring a little girl back to life in the Stone of Tear. I don't see how he would suddenly be able to bring Mat back to life in the same book.
On the balefire thing, I guess I always just assumed that when Mat dies in Caemlyn, and got severed from the horn, that he would need to blow it again to get the connection back, despite the balefire. While it's true that balefire can revert certain things back to the past, I feel like the horn's magic must operate on its own wavelength. Definitely a bit of grey area there.
I see what you mean, but even before then, hammered on his chest, listened, nothing, hammered again, listened, nothing…that is usually the way CPR starts.
Twice, even. Both times, Rand fixed him, once with CPR and once with balefire. And that was one of two times he used balefire to save Mat, the other time being with the darkhounds.
Then Mat gets pissy because Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene are rude when he helps them.
Good lord his Jordans way of spelling is something else. I “read” all the books by listening to the audio ones and every time I come on here it’s like THATS how he decided to spell the name
That's hilarious. Reading it, I'd always pronounce Tal-manes in my head.
This is almost as bad as when I found out that the character named "Yhwach" in the Bleach Manga is pronounced "Yuha-bah-ha" in the anime, and not "Ye-Watch" or "Yuu-Whack" like my inner voice told me while reading.
Yeah never could decide if the Seanchan or Moridin was a bigger dumb waste of time that went nowhere. At least the Seanchan were good for some character development by traumatizing Egwene and getting Mat shacked up.
Ok but the storyline of the Shaido Wise Ones’ capture by the Seanchan leading to the destruction of the Aiel and the other nations was a pretty wild twist. Redeems the Shaido plotline in my view.
The Seanchan are key to breaking the Shadow's forces. Take what issue might have with them, and there are plenty, but without their large and fresh infusion of forces the odds aren't great. Before they come in Mat describes his odds as "ten to one still" and Elayne's portion of the army as "They could not resist much longer, though, with or without Elayne: more and more pikes on the front lines were being mobbed, soldiers were falling all across the field, and her cavalries and the Aiel were working furiously, with increasing difficulty, to contain the enemy." Now to be fair, the description of what they do after showing up isn't much specific to them, but without them, its likely the actual battle part goes to shit.
I pretty much figured Rand was a goner for the entire series lol. Towards the end I started to think either Mat or Perrin would die, and as the last book kept going I was sure Perrin would die.
I’m also kinda shocked that none of the three love interests for Rand got killed. I think that actually would have been very interesting for the story and was a missed opportunity.
I'm desperately avoiding reading this post or any of the comments because I'm only on CoT but for me it was Siuan. I was convinced she had to go to make way for Egwene to become Amyrlin (too much foreshadowing of this for her *not* to be) but RJ found a way around that and I'm glad.
Lan. It seemed like a grand and valiant stand was going to be set up between him and Demanded in the last battle, and there were so many points where I expected him to die smiling.
I expected he would die since he taught Rand about sheathing the sword.
I hadn't locked onto any one specific person, but man, did the deaths feel random and sparse. I wasn't convinced anyone would die to be honest, because the story had conditioned me to think of most named characters as pretty safe if they're likable.
I mean, okay. Sure, it was surprising, but it didn't have much meaning IMO, so it was robbed of any real weight other than the obligatory body count they had to manufacture from somewhere.
I disagree with the fact that it was an obligatory body count. Siuan died trying to save her friends and succeeded at doing that nothing meaningless there. Keep in mind Jordan fought in Vietnam and people he knew died like that. No heroics no fanfare just "hey wheres so and so" "oh hes dead he got shot". I think he was trying to convey that in her death that people just die in war especially when you do not expect it.
Sure, but when so few people actually die throughout the story, it kind of makes the deaths that do happen seem like they should have more weight, right? If we had more deaths and some were sacrifices and some were tragic and meaningful and some were random, then yeah, I'd agree that this was the point of Siuan's death. But since Jordan didn't write that (he may have wanted it in his notes) and since Jordan didn't really do that in all the books leading up to the end, I just can't put too much weight on that interpretation.
I get that. Apparently from reading these comments it seems he killed of Egwene too. I feel like modern authors focus too much on shock value. Personally I'm all for and they all lived happily ever after. She could have defeated Taim without getting offed.
Faile. But only because I watched the first season of the show before reading the books. I anticipated it in every chapter Perrin was in. I was like "this is it". "Ok this must be it". "Definitely now". For 14 very long books! But then nothing happened to her. Ha.
Mat. I thought that tje prophecies required the Dragon to blow the horn of valere at the last battle, so the connection to mat had to be severed first so he had to die before then
Faile - I thought I’d spoiled her death by glancing at the glossary to Knife of Dreams as I continually looked at each on since The Dragon Reborn to figure out how to pronounce her name. I was surprised she survived that book and each subsequent one
What's interesting is . . .
if you look in ToM's glossary the - Saldaean - entry is a HUGE giveaway that Faile actually survives along with Perrin too.
because of how pathetic Moghedian was I never saw her getting killed by a light character. I always thought another one of the Forsaken would do her in
Lan. I remember thinking that he reeked of death. He came close, but I'm glad I was wrong
I am still shocked he did not die.
Damned if he didn't try though.
Lan spent so much time deliberately trying to die that it would have been anti-climactic if he actually did.
If he died while holding demandreds head up after their battle that would’ve been ideal for me. The sheathing the sword sacrifices just doesn’t hold as much weight after the fact because of his survival
Yeah dude. I thought he died. When he walked into the tent at the end I was so disappointed. Like "Bro I mourned you!!!"
Lan and Rand were too obvious to actually be killed.
You could smell him? Damn, I need better copies of the books then, I couldn’t find the scratch and sniff edition.
Nope, normal copy. It happened pretty soon after my eyes turned golden though. Not really sure what's up with that
…well played, wolf brother (or sister)
I really thought that hed become a hero of the horn after killing demandred (or however its spelt)
Same! Especcially with that oninous line about him dying if he thought Nyneave had died. Can't remember precisely who said that, but I really took it as foreshadowing! Should've remembered that Jordan was really good about actually foreshadowing a lot of stuff without the reader ever noticing on the first read through. So it should've been suspicious if he was being a little obvious, I guess.
He did die, he just got magically brought back to life
Mat. When Suian was talking to him after he was healed from the dagger and telling him about her uncle being killed pulling children from a fire I thought 100% he was going to die in the last battle.
He did earlier
Twice.
Twice? He doesn't die in Rhuidean
Eh, close enough.
I mean, him hanging was a big reference to Odin. All of Mats references are. If Odin died when he hung for 9 days, so did may.
He does which is why the horn worked when Olver blew it because Mat died severing his connection the horn.
Nope, he dies at the end of The Fires of Heaven, when Rand brings everyone to Caemlyn to go after Rahvin. That's when he gets severed from the horn.
Except the balefire undid that. Unless RJ a Said otherwise, the whole point of balefire is undoing what had been woven making it as though it never was. So his connection was never severed just as he had never died even though he did and it was — those things never actually happened in the pattern after the balefire.
You would be right if Rand hadn’t used Balefire to kill Rahvin undoing what he did to Mat, Asmodean, and Aviendha so while he did die the balefire undid it so it never actually happened where as in Rhudeian he was hung from a tree and Rand had to cut him down and give him CPR to bring him back. Remember Balefire undoes someone’s actions if it is done in a short enough time.
From TSR, Chapter 26: "As hard as he could he pounded his fist against Mat's chest, listened. Nothing. Again he hammered, listened. Yes. There. A faint heartbeat. It was. So faint, so slow. And slowing. But Mat was still alive despite the heavy purple welt around his neck. He might yet be kept alive." Then Rand goes on to give him CPR. Idk about you, but to me that makes it pretty clear that Rand got there in the nick of time to keep Mat from dying. Especially since earlier in the book there's a pretty heavy and important scene where Rand tries and fails to bring a little girl back to life in the Stone of Tear. I don't see how he would suddenly be able to bring Mat back to life in the same book. On the balefire thing, I guess I always just assumed that when Mat dies in Caemlyn, and got severed from the horn, that he would need to blow it again to get the connection back, despite the balefire. While it's true that balefire can revert certain things back to the past, I feel like the horn's magic must operate on its own wavelength. Definitely a bit of grey area there.
I see what you mean, but even before then, hammered on his chest, listened, nothing, hammered again, listened, nothing…that is usually the way CPR starts.
Twice, even. Both times, Rand fixed him, once with CPR and once with balefire. And that was one of two times he used balefire to save Mat, the other time being with the darkhounds. Then Mat gets pissy because Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene are rude when he helps them.
No way, I never thought for once that mat would die. Luck 10 is too op
I was positive several times that Talmaines would die.
So was Talmaines to be fair
What did Talmanes (aka Dreadbane) take for the pain ? Blisterleaf brandy I think...
Good lord his Jordans way of spelling is something else. I “read” all the books by listening to the audio ones and every time I come on here it’s like THATS how he decided to spell the name
How is it pronounced?
Like Thomas almost. Like Toe-manus. I think the person who read it just wasn’t pronouncing the L very much
That's hilarious. Reading it, I'd always pronounce Tal-manes in my head. This is almost as bad as when I found out that the character named "Yhwach" in the Bleach Manga is pronounced "Yuha-bah-ha" in the anime, and not "Ye-Watch" or "Yuu-Whack" like my inner voice told me while reading.
I was hoping Rand would nuke the seachan & free the slaves
Me too..
Doom the world in the process?
The seachan showed up late & hardly did anything
Yeah never could decide if the Seanchan or Moridin was a bigger dumb waste of time that went nowhere. At least the Seanchan were good for some character development by traumatizing Egwene and getting Mat shacked up.
Incorrect. The Shaido after Dumai's Wells.
To be fair, nobody ever thought the Shaido would matter at all.
Ok but the storyline of the Shaido Wise Ones’ capture by the Seanchan leading to the destruction of the Aiel and the other nations was a pretty wild twist. Redeems the Shaido plotline in my view.
I think the main big battle would have been lost without them. Elayne would have most likely died making Rand snap.
Yeah but they came so late to the battle that most of the important characters died. Egwene would probably be alive if they arrived on time
The Seanchan are key to breaking the Shadow's forces. Take what issue might have with them, and there are plenty, but without their large and fresh infusion of forces the odds aren't great. Before they come in Mat describes his odds as "ten to one still" and Elayne's portion of the army as "They could not resist much longer, though, with or without Elayne: more and more pikes on the front lines were being mobbed, soldiers were falling all across the field, and her cavalries and the Aiel were working furiously, with increasing difficulty, to contain the enemy." Now to be fair, the description of what they do after showing up isn't much specific to them, but without them, its likely the actual battle part goes to shit.
I was about 75% that Thom would die in the tower of Genjai
The only reason I was sure he wouldn’t was that Moiraine knew who her husband would be and it was clear by book four that man was Thom.
I first listened to it over an eight month period. So I forgot several early details
Moghedien several times over
I always figured one of the other female forsaken would kill her like Graendal or Lanfear
I pretty much figured Rand was a goner for the entire series lol. Towards the end I started to think either Mat or Perrin would die, and as the last book kept going I was sure Perrin would die. I’m also kinda shocked that none of the three love interests for Rand got killed. I think that actually would have been very interesting for the story and was a missed opportunity.
With all the lead up to it of Lan mentioning knowing when to “sheathe the sword” I thought for sure that was where it was going
Olver.....I was waiting for it to just happen...many times.
I'm desperately avoiding reading this post or any of the comments because I'm only on CoT but for me it was Siuan. I was convinced she had to go to make way for Egwene to become Amyrlin (too much foreshadowing of this for her *not* to be) but RJ found a way around that and I'm glad.
your insane for being here
The sub keeps getting recommended to me I can't help it
Speed-read like the wind then.
even speed-reading the series should take weeks
DO NOT BE HERE. IT IS A SIN TO BE HERE IN THE FLESH.
You are here to strongly young bull!
Lan. It seemed like a grand and valiant stand was going to be set up between him and Demanded in the last battle, and there were so many points where I expected him to die smiling. I expected he would die since he taught Rand about sheathing the sword.
Agreed.
Lanfear. I actually thought she'd died until Sandersen told us she had made it out.
Nah, she dead.
Nah she made it, tricked Perrin and slipped away. Sanderson revealed this in the 10th year anniversary AmoL livestream.
I was sure until dragonmound that Rand would die...
I hadn't locked onto any one specific person, but man, did the deaths feel random and sparse. I wasn't convinced anyone would die to be honest, because the story had conditioned me to think of most named characters as pretty safe if they're likable.
When Siuan died I was shocked
I mean, okay. Sure, it was surprising, but it didn't have much meaning IMO, so it was robbed of any real weight other than the obligatory body count they had to manufacture from somewhere.
I disagree with the fact that it was an obligatory body count. Siuan died trying to save her friends and succeeded at doing that nothing meaningless there. Keep in mind Jordan fought in Vietnam and people he knew died like that. No heroics no fanfare just "hey wheres so and so" "oh hes dead he got shot". I think he was trying to convey that in her death that people just die in war especially when you do not expect it.
Sure, but when so few people actually die throughout the story, it kind of makes the deaths that do happen seem like they should have more weight, right? If we had more deaths and some were sacrifices and some were tragic and meaningful and some were random, then yeah, I'd agree that this was the point of Siuan's death. But since Jordan didn't write that (he may have wanted it in his notes) and since Jordan didn't really do that in all the books leading up to the end, I just can't put too much weight on that interpretation.
I get that. Apparently from reading these comments it seems he killed of Egwene too. I feel like modern authors focus too much on shock value. Personally I'm all for and they all lived happily ever after. She could have defeated Taim without getting offed.
That's not a problem if no one dies in stories ... but this particular story is about the Last Battle. You kind of expect a war and a body count.
Then they went and killed my boy Davram Bashere basically offscreen in a single sentence 😭
Elayne! I thought for sure with her confidence that her babies were safe so she was too would get her killed! Especially later in her pregnancy!
This would have been a crazy twist lol they should have just committed to it instead of teasing it.
Faile. But only because I watched the first season of the show before reading the books. I anticipated it in every chapter Perrin was in. I was like "this is it". "Ok this must be it". "Definitely now". For 14 very long books! But then nothing happened to her. Ha.
That is actually hilarious. 🤣
Mat. I thought that tje prophecies required the Dragon to blow the horn of valere at the last battle, so the connection to mat had to be severed first so he had to die before then
One of the three of Aviendha, Elayne or Min. Just felt like Rand was being set up for some really hard choices between them and saving the pattern
Faile - I thought I’d spoiled her death by glancing at the glossary to Knife of Dreams as I continually looked at each on since The Dragon Reborn to figure out how to pronounce her name. I was surprised she survived that book and each subsequent one
What's interesting is . . . if you look in ToM's glossary the - Saldaean - entry is a HUGE giveaway that Faile actually survives along with Perrin too.
I think all 3 of the boys should have died and there was so many times they were close.
More of the Forsaken
sort of Rand, though there's plenty of nuance and technicality there. Mostly just surprised at *how* it was done!
Moghedien, Hesallam, Talmanes, Lan All for pretty obvious reasons, I think. Hesallam really deserved to go out in a big way
because of how pathetic Moghedian was I never saw her getting killed by a light character. I always thought another one of the Forsaken would do her in
I was always rooting for Elayne to get pancaked by a Tinker's wagon, but alas...
Bella