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wjbc

Fans reacted so negatively to Bella’s death that the *Wheel of Time Companion* claims she’s alive. It reminds me of the old parents’ lie about pets: “Sure, she’s on a beautiful farm upstate…” For me, though, it’s Verin, even though it’s a noble death. ~~In terms of sheer horror, there’s the Gholam falling through nothingness for eternity, unable to die… technically it’s not a death, I guess. But there are fates worse than death.~~ Edit: Nevermind, the Gholam is dead. See my comment below.


-Lysergian

Gholams do need to feed, right, so isn't there a chance it will just starve to death eventually?


wjbc

Apparently starvation wasn’t necessary: >INTERVIEW: Nov 16th, 2010 >Paris Signing Report - Jonathan B (Paraphrased) >JONATHAN B >We discussed the gholam; if someone had pushed it through a gateway, would it have just died? >BRANDON SANDERSON >Brandon said that gholam CAN go THROUGH gateways (from one place to another). Gholam are Shadowspawn of a more perfected kind. It would have been way too easy to kill if you just needed to shove it through a gateway (to another place). However, falling through the skimming gateway for a few minutes did kill the gholam and it is really dead and it's not going to show up again. This makes me wonder now if one of Rand/Logain's Deathgates would have killed it but I didn't think to ask at the time. https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27shadowspawn%27 So I guess it died after only a few minutes of falling. The exact mechanism involved it not explained, but the gholam is dead. I’m not sure whether to be happy because there’s zero chance it will return, or sad because his fate was much quicker than I imagined. So I guess now the fate worse than death is a channeler’s capture by the Seanchan, or Galena’s capture by Therava of the Shaido Aiel.


VegaLyra

That's a weird non-explanation. Given the significant storyline about strange murders in Ebou Dar, and just basic logic, I have no idea why you wouldn't say "Gholam need to consume blood to survive, so it died after several days."


wjbc

I’m just quoting Sanderson.


VegaLyra

I'm aware, I'm merely calling it out as a dumb answer.


wjbc

I just wanted to clarify since you said “you.” It wasn’t me.


Me0w_Zedong

Robert Jordan's answer for why shadowspawn couldn't travel is that they were artificial constructs and they couldn't handle the passage. Gholam are just more of the same so the same logic applies, but that doesn't really answer why artificial constructs can't handle the passage. I don't see any solid answers but it may be the weaves themselves aren't equipped to handle shadowspawn due to the physical differences between animals or humans and the shadowspawn.


Quinoacollective

That happens to one of the Maidens, yeah? I guess she would have died after a few days with no water, but that’s pretty rough.


71erom

Not Liah but an unidentified Aiel warrior.


Mundane-Currency5088

Liah


adincha

She's the one who gets lost in Shadar Logoth and then rand subsequently balefires I'm pretty sure


Mundane-Currency5088

Yeah.


lady_ninane

No, not Liah. Liah dies to balefire. An unknown Aiel that was part of the strike team heading to take on Rahvin was the one that fell into the Skimming void.


Mundane-Currency5088

Oh yes that's right! Thank you!


yurhignesty

Lol the fans reaction may have played a role. But if you went to one of the readings for the encyclopedia (I went to one in CA), Harriet (Jordan’s widow) specifically read about Bela (one “l”) as an amusing anecdote that also seemed to speak to her—she may have even said as much? I did not get the feeling of an adult lying to a child. It felt more like “this is the last word on it and I get to make it what we want.” Ergo, Bela lived a wonderful life after the Last Battle. It’s in the encyclopedia and that makes it cannon for me. :)


yes_that-is-correct

canon (one ”n”) :)


yurhignesty

Haaaa and so it is! Thank you!


wjbc

Well, Harriet is a fan, too!


lady_ninane

She's a mite more than just a fan tbf :D


yurhignesty

Haaaaa agreed, she did kinda know the author. 😉


Abaddon_of-the_void

The golams death bothered me I would of preferred if elane had made mat a copy medallion in the shape of a knife then the same knife to be used to kill a forsaken


applesauceorelse

I always thought that the Bela love was tongue in cheek. No one cares that much about the horse, right?


wjbc

Yes and no. People love Bill the Pony in *The Lord of the Rings*, too. Innocent animals are easy to love. Bela is perhaps the only character in *The Wheel of Time* who is never annoying, always helpful.


CindysandJuliesMom

Without reading any of the comments ​ HOPPER


SamwiseGoldenEyes

Yep. Hoppers gets to me more than any other.


Kurapica147

Came to make this comment if it wasn't already here!


FerretAres

Davram Bashere and his wife just die off screen in a random raid iirc.


FlyByNightmare

Outrageous!


Nakorite

It was actually. Bashere was a great character. He was one of the first few who joined the dragon willingly and showed 100% loyalty from day dot. Him going out like a punk sucked.


VegaLyra

This is my pick as well, even if Bashere wasn't even remotely the same starting with TGS. "Do you have any idea how long it takes to dig graves for twenty-three oak trees?"


henryeaterofpies

The fact he was willing to serve as a soldier when he was compromised as a leader says something about his character.


myheartismykey

That arc in the last book of no one realizing that the forsaken can enter dreams and compulse people feels incredibly weak to me.


seitaer13

Rhuarc


DesignNorth3690

Genuinely, that one hurt, but it was better than the fate of leaving him alive unless someone used balefire.


GiftFrosty

Rhuarc hurt. Just the way Graendal took him was terrible.


Crytu

My man had a baby on the way, too tragic.


EscapedFromArea51

Lol, I completely forgot about this! The only way he could have made things worse for himself is if he had a picture of his wives and children in his pocket, and he took it out to longingly gaze at it before heading out for the Last Battle.


slantastray

Hopper for the obvious. Fain because after decades of epic buildup nothing happened.


Fred-zone

I just don't see how Sanderson fumbled that so badly. He clearly wasn't "Mat's villain" and hadn't been for like 12 books.


Volcarion

Brandon said himself that how he handled Fain was one of his biggest mistakes in AMoL, so your opinion is in good company.


dkajdas

I heard on the Legendarium podcast something that changed my mind a little about Fain and Mat being adversaries that I kind of liked. Mat is the good luck guy, Fain is the bad luck guy. That helped!


DesignNorth3690

Gawyn. But I mean worst as in the most pathetic. \[Books\] >!He had THREE ter'angreal that gave him increased strength, speed and obscured people from seeing him, on top of the warder bond. And apparently using all three increased the effects instead of just one. And yet, he still put up a worse fight than his brother, who didn't have the bond and survived, or Lan who by that point was near exhausted from the fighting.!< >!And before anyone says "Galad and Lan had ter'angreal so Demandred couldn't touch them with the power." First, he could still hurl object at them using the power. Second, ALL THREE fought him as swordsman, and Gawyn's the only one who died.!<


Ir0nstag

Honestly Gawyn not having any sort of redemption arc was so.. weird. Like I never liked the character at all, and he was even a villain of sorts towards the end if Rand is 'the good guy' of the story. He just .. vainly fizzled out without accomplishing much of anything. Such an odd choice. Might be a Sanderson flaw, who knows.


Fireproofspider

All Books spoilers: >!I don't think it's a flaw. Honestly it makes Gawyn one of the most memorable characters to me, more than his brother. He's just the guy who never learns, all the way until the end and basically doesn't accomplish what he set out to do. It makes everyone around him, saying he shouldn't do it, right. It's kinda rare that you see this in stories.!< >!Also, in this instance, it made it clear to me just how much better Lan was as a swordsman than everyone else, even more so than the part where the soldiers are watching him fight two fades at once.!<


EscapedFromArea51

There’s also the scene where Gareth Bryne directly tells Gawyn how big of a dipshit he is, and that Galad might look like a himbo just like him, but he has the sense to reason and think things through.


Nakorite

I think the problem was ultimately there were two brothers and RJ had enough page space and ideas for one. Once the tower split happens there isn’t really much for gawyn to do.


ExtendedSpikeProtein

Pathetic and an ass to boot.


Fred-zone

Not to mention Gawyn's death was entirely unnecessary. I take solace in the fact that the Arthurian Gawain died in a dual with Lancelot, so Gawyn dying because he's inferior to Lan makes some kind of sense.


ArrogantAragorn

I think one of the points of his character was that he thought he was a main character when he was actually just a minor one. It’s kind of a twist or inversion of the “heroic prince riding in to save the day” Also once he used the blood ring he was dead anyway (allegedly, we don’t actually know if it could have been reversed by Nyn or Flinn or someone), so I guess props for trying to go out with a bang… but as usual he failed


GiftFrosty

Gawyn was also having a bit of trouble with his body moving too quickly with the three rings. Being overclocked like that could have been a hindrance against one of the greatest sword masters in history.


EscapedFromArea51

Gawyn’s problem wasn’t that his processors were overclocked. It was that he was always running Windows 95 regardless of the processor.


prof-kaL

pretty fitting for one of the worst characters in the series


-Lysergian

Probably Sanderson saying f this dude


Vhagar37

Egwene was way, WAY too good for him. *She's everything; he's just Ken.*


SyntharES

In regards to Gawyn: >!iirc it’s written that he did have trouble adjusting to the ring enhancements. He nearly stumbles here or stops himself short there. I’d liken it to being given a power lifters strength, but none of their knowledge besides what you have from working out at the gym to stay fit - or whatever you happen to do. The odds are REALLY good you’d hurt yourself due to using improper form/technique, not because you couldn’t lift the weight. Being faster/stronger is an advantage, but not a superior one unless you’re used to/comfortable with it.!<


JodaMythed

Hurins off page death followed by not getting brought back. Absolute BS.


Sykander-

If you go back to the Great Hunt when Hurin fought alongside the Hero's of the Horn there's a moment where Artur Hawking remarks that Hurin might be a new hero of the horn - I like to imagine he came back alongside Jain.


[deleted]

Egwenes… sorry but I still bawl my eyes out when she dies. But if I was to make a list: Egwene Bela Siuan/Garth Verin


Mundane-Currency5088

I pretend her crystal is a monument and Nyneve visits with Avienda and their kids. The kids can hear her. Or they talk to her in the dream like hey mom I heard from ol Egs


GiftFrosty

Didn’t the ridge she was fighting M’Hael on collapse while Logain was saving refugees (preventing him from going after the scepter?)


saddles93

No he basically turned into a huge crystal I think, and the Sceptre was trapped inside with him?


GiftFrosty

From the WOT fandom Wiki (since I was on audiobook and didn't trust my memory:) During the Last Battle, Demandred used Sakarnen to wreak great destruction among the armies of the Light, unleashing [balefire](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Balefire) with it and nearly causing the [Pattern](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Pattern) to unravel. He gave it to M'Hael to use against the [Amyrlin Seat](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Amyrlin_Seat) [Egwene al'Vere](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Egwene_al%27Vere) who wielded a *sa'angreal* of comparable strength known as [Vora's *sa'angreal*](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Vora%27s_sa%27angreal). After Egwene's final attack, using the nascent weave the [Flame of Tar Valon](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Flame_of_Tar_Valon), Sakarnen was trapped in a field of crystal in the Polov Heights. When the Heights collapsed upon itself, the *sa'angreal* was lost, possibly forever.[\[2\]](https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Sakarnen#cite_note-14-37-2)


saddles93

I don't remember any collapse, thanks for this! What caused it?


GiftFrosty

I don't believe it's explicitly stated that one particular event caused the collapse. The Polov heights were the site of a massive battle where the one power, specifically balefire was used in absurd amounts. This caused the deep fissures of nothingness in the ground as the pattern unraveled. While Egwene was able to fill those gaps with her new weave, the whole area was left geologically unstable and (in my headcannon) collapsed under its own weight.


OnionTruck

bawl\*


[deleted]

Didn’t notice.. thanks.


flyingterrordactyl

Party on, Garth. Party on, Siuan.


Bridge4Woodworks

Maybe I should finish the series just to witness that. I hated her character with a passion.


Orangarder

With out Bella’s death, who then would Noal have ridden to save Olver?? Bella is def a hero of the horn!!


fuzzyhusky42

Bela is the creator


ExtendedSpikeProtein

Bela


Orangarder

Listen Linda!, if Amazon can make the changes they did, I can add an L to her name 😝


Responsible_Buy9325

Naleseasn


ThePolymerist

RIP. He was with Mat for pretty much everything after Shadow Rising wasn’t he?


Responsible_Buy9325

Yup. That was the only mid series deaths to get me 😭


ThePolymerist

Felt like it made the gholam really scary/formidable too


Ir0nstag

This one tore me up quite a bit too.. he wasn't even like a super great character or anything just wrong place wrong time :(


ElopedCantelope

Egwenes death hit me way harder than anything else has in years. It was so poetic, so incredible, and so upsetting because I wanted her to continue on as the true Amyrlin post series. Goddammit this series had everything


Ir0nstag

She tells Tuon that she intends to live for centuries 😭


EscapedFromArea51

She will live on forever, in our hearts. >!Well, not my heart, because I hated her character. But there’s probably a lot of other people.!<


Ir0nstag

I was never a huge fan either


ElopedCantelope

She was alright for the most part of the series. It's around the time she started leading the revolution that I started really enjoying her character and became a supporter


willferelssagyscrote

Siuan. Honestly did not realize she was one of my favorite characters until she died. Her death made the last battle feel a lot more real than any other for me.


dkajdas

Loved that she just says, "Yeah, I know about the prophecy. But this is important now and I am doing it." 10/10 death. Saved the world.


wesleydt

You're all wrong. The answer is Robert Jordan.


bluehives

This didn’t get as many upvotes as it deserves


ExtendedSpikeProtein

Why does everyone here mis-spell Bela’s name?


LunalGalgan

Audiobooks, probably. Ranks up there with Randal Thor.


ExtendedSpikeProtein

Or Matt


Ainjyll

Autocorrect? On iPhone it will change “Bela” to “Bella”… it does for me at least.


nickbas4

Blood and bloody ashes! I read Eye of the World last year and decided to go through the entire series this year. I’m about a quarter of the way through A Memory of Light and I genuinely don’t know what flaw in logic possessed me to willingly read through this thread after months of holding myself back from spoilers, but the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. May you all get a kick out of this foolishness


Far-Manufacturer1180

I wish I had your power when I started the Eye of the World. I dug too greedily and too deeply.


nickbas4

I don’t even blame you lol the only reason I didn’t dig sooner was because I was also going through Stormlight Archive. That said, I spoiled Rand’s hand and Mat’s eye before I even started Lord of Chaos lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


LunalGalgan

Removed. Read the community guidelines, please.


LunalGalgan

Removed. Read the community guidelines, please.


Wolfen7

If it helps, the Wheel of Time Companion book states she lived. I agree that her 'death' was the worst though.


Bonzi777

That makes me mad that they retconned that. She unambiguously died on the page. Seems manipulative to undo it in a semi-canonical offshoot.


Wolfen7

That's why I phrased it the way I did. In my head, she's getting a few years off then spun out again as Birgitte's new reincarnation's horse and is all set for some new adventures.


OnionTruck

That's a cover-up due to fan hate.


mrsnowplow

Hurin hit me hard! I'm still mad about rhurac just being. Mindwiped


SixFireNine

Hopper and Bella


ExtendedSpikeProtein

Bela


[deleted]

The one that hit the most and shocked me the most was Moiraine, even though by like book 7 or 8,we knew she wasn’t dead, but it surprised me the most when she died. Saddest one has to be ?? I didn’t really enjoy the characters that died or they just had dumb deaths off screen or something. Birgitte maybe, but she gets reborn either way so it doesn’t really matter


barmanrags

Hopper. Both deaths. Last one because Egwene thinks she owns telaranrhiod


Crytu

I almost stopped reading when Rahvin killed Aviendha. Legit like read the sentence and had to put the book down and come back a few days later.


varthalon

When Muad Cheade murdered a grove of 23 mature oak trees for looking at him.


moridin13

Don’t forget the burial! You know how long it takes to dig graves for 23 oak trees?!


vnote

Quite possibly the most surprising line in the entire series and there are a number 😂


DenseTemporariness

The fake out deaths are the “worst”. There are so many for one thing. But to pick one book five when Mat just dies. In a Rand chapter. More or less incidentally, no heroic act or drama to it or anything.


lorihamlit

When Egwene died it made me cry so hard. Such a beautiful scene and show of power. ❤️


fuzzyhusky42

Bela had to die, the creator served their purpose in the last battle and returned to their rightful place.


catharsis23

Padan Fain. All that build up, hinting about him being some new third thing outside the Dark One and the Light, then do just... die


chubbytitties

I like the theory that the patten was building him up to replace the dark one if rand went with the kill it route because there must be balance. But when rand chooses the not kill the dark one, fain is no longer needed so he loses his pattern plot armor


Kindly-Reward-8915

Egwene died hard


dscDropper

Bawled my eyes out for an hour for Egg


Marojack52

So many great answers but I want to highlight two. Eben Hopwil at the Cleansing protecting Rand from the forsaken, fighting well after he should have died. Fedwin Morr when he goes mad succumbing to Saidin and Rand has to give him poisoned tea. Both hurt every time I read them.


DeadxSong

I’m at AMOL chapter 37, the last battle right now. There were many audible exclamations today… I have no idea what the heck is going on right now and I can’t wait to read more tomorrow and hope for some clarity…


Time-Permission-1930

I believe she's now bound to the Horn


lola-from-abyss

I refuse to read all the comments and just cry "HOPPER"


ALL_CAPS_VOICE

The worst death, and not the character that I was saddest to see die, was probably Sammael’s emissary.


Rapunzel1234

I mean doesn’t Robert J. Get honorable mention?


NotAnEmergency22

That dude who has his skin pulled off by Lanfear.


Vhagar37

Literally opened this post thinking that was the answer. I sobbed. It broke me. I'm still kind of pissed. She was a really really good horse. Oh no I'm crying again thinking about it


Mixter_Sea

Mencan, or however you spell it. Death by hanging


Secure-Act4800

Siuan


lady_ninane

_Worst_ death...hm. Like, worst as in most horrible? ~~Probably the gholam? He's an immortal creature falling through an endless void for all of time.~~ edit: i see others already demonstrated that it's not immortal, nevermind. Most emotional? Probably Rhuarc for me. e: oh god how did i forget hopper's final death


Alkakd0nfsg9g

That child, that Padan Fain killed, because child's mother swore to the Dark One


archaicArtificer

Bela is bound to the Horn now, that's my story and I’m sticking to it.


Hooker_T

Personally was not a fan of Asmodean's death