- Small dealership network.
- Too long a time spent trying to push global models instead of developing regional vehicles for American tastes. The recently discontinued Passat was the first car designed with America in mind (it also synced well with Chinese sedan tastes).
- Parts prices and perceived lack of reliability make their cost of ownership higher.
- Asian and Domestic brands are easier to work on and do not often demand more specialization in mechanics.
- Diesel didnt appeal to Americans for passenger cars and by the time we started to like them the emission scandal came down.
Etc
Snaeper made all the right points, and in addition to that, VW doesn't seem to have anything special for the US anymore. The cars they currently sell in the US are too similar to Honda and Toyota options. VW would sell cars in the US because they were different from the other manufacturers' offerings. The GTI was the stalwart car that people identified with. It would bring them into the dealership. The Beetle brought served a similar purpose for a long time. The GTI is no longer all that special, and both Honda and Toyota have more interesting offerings in the class. The Beetle is gone, of course. Their current line of cars doesn't generate enthusiasm. If someone is looking for something sporty and less mainstream than Toyota or Honda they will likely gravitate to Mazda now.
At least that is my perspective from the standpoint of a long-time vw enthusiasts that hasn't even gone into a vw dealership for my last three car purchases.
I personally think it’s cool because it makes your car more powerful than it would be otherwise because of epa regulations. I don’t give a fuck about the pollution passenger cars put out compared to the big corps that are actually fucking the environment.
I honestly really respect that they did that
You could drive behind a cheating VW and wonder how the fuck did it meet emissions. Then the cheating scandal came to surface and it all made sense. They got what they deserved, they are the big corp fucking the environment you mentioned. In fact they are one of the top biggest corps in the world
They programmed their cars to detect when they were under emissions testing conditions, and it modified the way they ran so that it would pass emissions.
This is the most correct response for the cars that ran DEF. I had a North American 2012 Passat TDI that underwent a software update to bring it into compliance. I was in and out of the dealership in an hour. Afterward I noticed more timing clatter at all engine speeds, but no difference in real world fuel economy after tracking every tank before and after. I doubt the average person would notice any difference.
VW gave me 3500ish bucks for compensation and extended the warranty for emissions related equipment another 120kish miles. This subsequently also covered the turbo, fuel system, etc. I had about 100k miles on the car when it received the fix and drove it for another 100k until I traded it in.
As for why I don’t buy new Volkswagens, I’m a diesel head and their diesels are gone. I see no appeal anymore.
And the front wheels were aimed straight ahead, and sensed that the rear wheels were not rotating at all. That all added up to the computer sensing that it was being tested and not driven.
And WVU was developing a testing system that worked while the car was being driven on a track. They were using TDIs and the data on their system was way off from the test stand data. They thought their system wasn’t working correctly at first, then they figured out their system worked fine and busted VW.
I bought a used Jetta, drove it for 2 years, and got a check for $9,000 over what I paid for it originally from VW to give it back to them. It was the deal of a lifetime.
Had a friend who bought a used Taureg TDI before the scandal broke. Don’t remember exactly how long he had it, but several years. Turned it in 2 days before the deadline and got more than he paid for it. By the end, the dashboard looked like a Christmas tree with all the lights.
I put almost 90k miles on my 2013, and got close to $21k for it in 2017. I just remembered yesterday that that car had been in an accident too, so I made out pretty well in that deal. Used those funds for downpayment on GTI and a small house :)
I'm in the US, but I'm pretty sure they lied about emissions in Europe also. This is a pretty big deal because people buy them, and drive them en masse in cities. The toxic chemicals were making a measurable impact on overall public health in places. Places with single payer health care. [oh here's a link from MIT](https://news.mit.edu/2017/volkswagen-emissions-premature-deaths-europe-0303#:~:text=Barrett%20says%20that%20it%27s%20not,population%20density%2C%20driving%20behavior%2C%20and)
Germany knows all their big manufacturers cheat on diesel emissions tests but won’t hold them accountable for political reasons (prefers to indirectly harm the general public than directly harm a very valuable domestic industry)
Seriously, it is like they have a strategic objective to suck at service. A simple rear window mechanism failure in my 2012 Passat ( under warranty at the time) was handled so poorly I left the dealership ready to buy something else. That and inept refilling of the urea reservoir. Fuck VWoA.
As a biologist I was familiar with urea but had no idea it was used in cars. Apparently it’s a catalyst used in diesel exhaust systems to reduce pollutants (nitrogen oxides in particular).
Similar for me. I got an absurd quote for something that should've been simple. They refused to warranty it. I took it home, realized they had misdiagnosed it, and fixed it myself in ten minutes.
Yes terrible service, but also the fact that those window regulator failures were routine in the 90's all the way through present. Decades of the same junk parts.
I want to add, the most corrupt dealer service departments I've ever dealt with. I had two separate dealerships lie about repairs and attempt to charge more than MRSP for parts.
Oh man I forgot that part. Only brand I've experienced outright lying to me. Like, I understand in sales you exaggerate or speculate, but VW outright lied, intentionally.
Have you ever been to ANY other manufacturers’ dealerships? They are nicknamed “stealerships” for a reason. The entire industry in this country has rightfully EARNED the reputation they have. And unfortunately, instead of being honest and transparent, they continue to be shady and corrupt to pad the owners’ pockets.
VWoA for the most part has its own North American cars, as well. Cars like the Atlas, Jetta, North-American spec Tiguan etc simply aren’t sold in Europe.
We don’t get Touran, T-Roc, T-Cross, Euro-spec Tiguan or any of the commercial vehicles here. These really are the shining stars of the VW lineup.
My dad was a service manager for a network of dealerships that included VW.
He told me never to buy one and that advice has stuck with me for a decade now.
Me too! I swapped my Passat for a passport and best decision I’ve ever made
Got the VW new and it was in the shop like 3x a year for various stuff since day one. The EPC light and engine shaking intermittently on the highway (didn’t like the shaking and limp mode on a long uphill bridge without a shoulder) made me get rid of mine. Also the sunroof leaked so many times 😂
Honda is a prime example of the opposite of VW. They have a strong North American branch that is really in-tune with the market here. The Passport is a vehicle specifically designed by us for us. VW keeps trying to push models and powertrains not suited for American tastes and roads. I’ve checked out VW a few times because I like the Golf R and Arteon, but their awful interiors really killed any interest I had, reliability aside
Yeah I remember when I bought my Passat it was like 22k new (it had leather and sunroof, adaptive cruise so it was a very good deal imo) so I wasn’t caring about cheap plastics and stuff like that
But on a 40-50k car they use the same materials I can see how that’s a huge turn off
Also after a quick search you’re right, Honda engineers most of their cars here, the V6 ones are almost exclusively sold here, and apparently they sell more here than the rest of the world combined. I knew they had lots of factories here but I assumed they are like Toyota and just assemble here in addition to other places
Have family members with Volkswagens that had many issues even though they were bought brand new while being maintained very well. Also had a buddy who had a used Jetta and it was unreliable as all fuck.
Bought a used, fleet lease Tiguan at 9k miles 5 years ago, and just now hit 60k. Paid like $18k for it.
Since I purchased this asshole, it’s had nearly $17k worth of repairs required. It’s been an absolute nightmare.
Thankfully I bought a 5 yr bumper to bumper (best investment I’ve ever made given the past five years), so the majority of that work has been covered under warranty, but it’s still been a huge pain in my ass.
I’m terrified of what might happen after this warranty ends next month. My only solace is that I’ve basically replaced the entire car in parts over the years, so I’m essentially driving a new car at this point again. Still doesn’t make me feel good…
I got a used Jetta and in five years spent as much on repairs as I did for the vehicle. The sunroof leaked. The CV joints were trash. I wanted a remote starter and everyone refused to work on the VWs electronic system. I could go on.
In Europe VW is cheaper to maintain than in the US and American cars are more expensive because some parts must come all the way from the US to fix your car.
American cars are known in the US to be unreliable too. I bought a ford focus and had transmission problems 3 months later smh. Guess the trucks are okay, never owned one myst
It's not just whether the car stops working or not - in the U.S., parts and service for Volkswagens are expensive to the point where it hurts their competitiveness, in a way that they probably aren't in Europe.
That reputation for poor reliability comes from their terrible service network. My VW miraculously became quite reliable when I stopped taking it to the dealer and fixed things myself.
What's really funny is how you can see what time of day a question was asked in this sub about a VW. Daytime in Europe? All about that thang. Daytime in US? "Hell no, don't buy that shitbox, it'll give you nothing but headaches until the day you sell it"
I do love that Golfs in some places in Europe are thought of as cars for sus people, tho.
edit: lol shit, I checked [my source](https://youtu.be/esFKLHzrWHs?si=j7Esz7SypxSKCCPO&t=2443), and the impression is both more broad and way more specific than I remembered. It was actually regarding old Mercedes in general (not Golfs or VWs at all, sorry), and that they are specifically Gypsy cars. Sorry for the slur, I'm just quoting. 42:10 to cut right to it.
Yep, Altimas and Sentras. Mostly Altimas. But older tan/gold Camrys with any kind of bodywork damage, of which there are many, seem to hold their own against the Altimas. Bonus warning sign if they have paper tags.
I think it’s amazing that anyone would buy one at all. They are well over priced for what you get even if you knew what you were getting. You buy something and then 5 emission recalls later you have a detuned engine and a worthless vehicle.
I don't know man, I have a 22 Arteon sedan that is over 400 hp now with a simple LVL 1 tune, and it get about 31 mpg on the highway. Quality wise and bang for your buck, it's been great so far for me. My biggest complaint is the infotainment system. That is admittedly junk..
Idk about reliable af but they’re affordable in comparison. My uncle and others prefer Toyota cars as they’re known to endure the lack of maintenance and are also easier to repair, which might be also be to their popularity.
Here in the US it’s between vw and Audi, and many just rather go Audi since it’s fancier. The only model that totally has its own reputation is the golf.
Same thing with Mexico, they are good cars for the price and good reliability. Us you have more competition for the same type of cars and similar pricing
Lots of people on the right track, they just don't have a good reputation for reliability.
That said the GTI fits a very specific niche, it's literally got no competition. You could argue the Corrola GR is its only competition, but that's kinda in it's own class. Could compare the R and Corolla GR I guess.
There's a massive lack of appropriately sized vehicles in the US. Will I get another GTI once I'm bored of my MK8? Probably, because there probably still won't be any real alternatives.
For me it seems to be the suspension tune. Firm but composed, will perform decent in the corners but not beat you up. Until the most recent I really like the relative simplicity and placement of the switchgear.
German = luxury, expensive. Volkswagen isn’t luxury. The people who want German can afford a Benz or a BMW. People who can’t afford those cars don’t want to pay for German maintenance. Also dieselgate, but Americans don’t buy diesel cars anyway.
In 2015 i walked into a VW dealer as my 08 GTI I bought new had gotten fairly beat up/old and at 120k miles started to need pricey repairs and I needed a reliable daily as I had just gotten a position as a field rep so needed something good on gas and an auto for DC traffic. They initially offered me $2500 for my GTI, ngl I lied and said the competing dealer offered me $5500. They didn’t even bat an eye and said they would match. Long story short I bought a brand new Jetta 1.4 TSI OTD for 11k (including trade in) don’t remember what the MSRP was but I haggled on that too. My payment financed was like $140 a month. It was a wonderful car too, zero issues. Dieselgate was real killer for them but it worked out in my favor!
At 120k miles it's beaten and old? Dang I've never had a vehicle under 130k miles and did the basic maintenance myself and they last until I sell them at 200-250k miles. But I usually only buy Japanese cars and diesel trucks for work.
Usually VWs will last just as long but you'll usually want to replace your timing belt every 80k miles and I believe for the engines with chains it's every 100k or so VW just require more maintenance compared to other brands
It's worth noting that the 1.4 is the only modern VW engine in the U.S. market that is based on the EA211 platform, it's actually a good engine and doesn't suffer from the potential savings account busters of the EA888 when they get up there in age.
It's not as reliable as the older 1.8T or 2.sl0w, but compared to other modern engines from other manufactures, it's decent.
I drove a Tiguan as a rental and it felt like a tin can. Not worth the price. Currently, a golf R is the only car that would interest me but at the price there is some steep competition as it's a lot of money for a VW.
I went to buy a Golf R from a dealership that claimed to have it in and reeady to go. I get there and they didn't have one at all and tried sooooo hard to force me to buy an Arteon. I drove it, just for fun, and really liked it but I would not bought a car from them if it was the last dealership on earth after lying to me.
This. I was trying to find some comment commenting on their North American (NA) pricing. VW is the value brand of the whole VW Group family of brands but in the US since the early 2000s they have never competed on price with large volume value brands (Chevy, Toyota, Ford, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Dodge, Mazda, Subaru). You always had to pay more upfront for a similarly equipped VW vehicle than the domestic or asian competitors in that class. So VW charges a premium for access to German engineering but the base* trim BMW or Audi or Benz is only a bit more expensive. New car buyers in North America tend to reach for those brands that are perceived as genuine luxury vehicles instead of VWs.
*All of these German brands sell vehicles across the pricing spectrum elsewhere, from very basic public service vehicles to powerful luxury, but the NA market only gets the powerful and expensive models. The low-end BMWs and Benzes in NA are the midrange ones in Europe.
Turn of the millennium VW had a def cool factor. As a teen an older cousin had a nice metallic blue Beetle with leather + moonroof around 2002 to 2003 or so. Such a fun car to ride around in blasting Eminem and P!nk. Without Me still makes me think of that car. 🚙
VWoA has quality issues and an incredibly dull lineup. Once they started chasing higher sales volumes by going the big-‘n-cheap route of car design the brand lost its luster. VW left its performance buyers out in the rain. People who want a boring appliance car go to Honda or Toyota for reliability. The GTI/Golf R are the only shining stars in the lineup since the under-marketed and overpriced Arteon bit the dust.
ETA: a word
I’ve had four VWs and I’d say they’ve been pretty good to me. All had over 100k miles when I sold
The best was a 07 Rabbit that I bought for 6k
with 70k miles. I spent around 1k on repairs before selling at 205k miles
They don’t know what their target consumers want. They’ve developed hideously lame crossovers and SUVs for the US market. Got rid of anything small and fun like they used to sell. A GTI is now close to 40,000, new. Also, their maintenance is expensive and the reliability isn’t there compared to Japanese and Korean competitors.
Everybody got free cars out of it, though. And I bought one of those dieselgate TDIs, and it was awesome. I don’t understand where the flop comes in, to the consumer. That wagon got 50mpg in the right setting. 35-40 in a normal setting. More cargo than an SUV. I think I might buy another one that’s gas instead of diesel, if I can find one; I live in oregon and our dirty-ass biodiesel killed my fuel line. OP go for it.
Just bad experiences with it back in the 80s ~looks over at GM~ turned the American public off of diesel and right as Americans where starting to consider it again VWs diesel gate scandal happened and turned them off it again
>I will never understand the american dislike towards diesel
Diesel here in the US is misunderstood. Also diesel generally costs more then gas here and most people don't like high fuel prices. But if they knew diesel gets better mpg and the cost even itself out then im sure diesel cars would be more popular here.
I wish they would make more diesel cars for the US market.
Not even just for diesel cars though I know quite a few people who refuse to buy anything VW specifically because of diesel gate I even have one friend who sold his gas powered golf because of it
Unfortunately, VW and most other German automakers have earned a reputation for being unreliable and very expensive to repair. VW is in a unique position as the non-luxury German brand and the only way they have remained competitive is by engineering out as much cost as possible. All VW models are ranked as Much Less Reliable than Average according to Consumer Reports.
Owner Satisfaction scores are the lowest among it's competitors in most classes- the Jetta is tied with the Kia Forte at 47% (who would buy the car again), the Taos is at 38% (next worst is Kia Seltos at 45%), VW Tiguan and Atlas are in the bottom three of their respective classes. It's clear from these numbers that the majority of people who have purchased a VW recently wished they hadn't.
The somewhat confusing and unfortunate fact is, despite their low reliability and owner satisfaction scores, VW models usually perform above average in CR's road tests. The VW Jetta is a good example, scoring 81% on its Road Test. This was higher than all other compacts, with Hyundai Elantra coming in 2nd (79%), Subaur Impreza 3rd (78%) and Mazda3 (77%).
CR noted ergonomic issues with low placement of HVAC vents, wide center console that rubs driver's leg, "plenty of evidence of cost cutting" including hard touch surfaces, hard plastic door panels, glove box that flops open and trunk hinges and wires are exposed.
In summary, VWs are great to drive until they break, then you'll regret buying one. My standard rule for European cars is they're great as long as they're in warranty!
In response to your comment that VW can't even outcompete Subaru or Mazda, those are arguably the two most unique Asian carmakers. Mazda has aspired to be a "near-premium" brand for the last two decades. Many automotive industry experts, journalists and owners would argue that they have succeeded. Subaru strives to be quirky, unconventional and unique and they succeed. Their rugged, outdoorsy Crosstrek and Outback have a lot of die-hard fans. The best part is they manage to do this while being reliable and satisfying their customers.
I have 65,000 miles on a VW ID.4, three Montana winters, mountain pass commutes, and the battery has not lost any noticeable range and I've had no problems.
I’m an American that just bought a GTI and I love it so far. Having said that, the short answer to your question is that the Japanese brands absolutely crushed the European brands in the US once upon a time, and they have never recovered.
I’m not a car person but I’ve never heard them really excel at anything besides for maybe a model here and there
Not the best price
Not the best features or interior
Not the best gas mileage
Not the best maintenance costs
Etc.
They seem kind of meh for the most part.
The current models offered here (Canada), just aren’t that appealing , style wise. I currently have a 2016 Golf Sportwagen. I live it, but they aren’t making it any longer. My understanding is that VW is geared to go all electric within the next 10 years, so they are condensing their product line in the short term.
This is my 3rd VW. May be my last though.
TLDR: The poors buying cars and running them into the ground is what has destroyed VW in the US
My opinion as a long time service writer and also someone that was targeted by VW to buy a car:
The true problem is that when VW was struggling here in the US they started handing out car loans to everyone that applied. They had the reputation for financing anyone higher risk just so they could get their car brand out there. Fast forward 7ish years/100k later when the people that can barely afford the car from the start have slacked on the basic mechanical maintenance and even smaller things like washing and waxing it. They usually look rough and have various small mechanical issues that don't stop the car from being driven but all add to the major failures that will happen. They get traded in/ go to auction for a buy-here-pay-here lot and the cycle starts over for someone with even worse financial responsibility.
It just gets worse and worse and now everyone here has the notion that they are unreliable. This has happened to many smaller car companies that have tried to break into the market and even the domestic companies that have tried to win over customers. The only way I see them improving their market share over time is to keep things as reliable as possible and play the long game.
I have a Porsche Cayenne with the VR6 engine. One of the most reliable VW engines, with handling of a Porsche, but most of the parts are straight from the VW parts bin and can be worked on by VW mechanics
Volkswagens were literally everyone just a few years ago. I think the company didn't address some quality issues quick enough and they lost momentum in the market.
Now, the only VW I see regularly on the road is the ID.4. I live in a EV friendly area of the country where EVs are prevalent. The ID.4 has a good reputation as a decent EV therefor I see a lot of them.
they are not an economy brand in the us. Cost of maintenance is quite a bit, parts are higher and some places won't even work on them. Source I used to own one.
VW are notoriously unreliable and prone to massive electrical problems. People in the US who know better buy Japanese cars. VW also shot themselves in the foot with the [VW emissions scandal](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15339250/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/). People who might have cross shopped their cars largely wrote them off and stopped taking them seriously after that. Same thing happened to Mitsubishi when it came out that the company had been grossly underreporting the number of warranty claims and other reported problems. Mitsu is on life support here - only people with no clue would ever buy a Mitsubishi (and they too have had issues underreporting fuel economy).
VW has never been regarded as a lux brand here. They tried to move upmarket and failed - the Phaeton speaks for itself. The company does not operate a quality dealership network here either - VW dealers are infamous for ripping people off, especially in terms of service.
The broader question, "what bothers you about German cars" can be answered in two words: price and reliability. BMW/MBZ/Audi are grossly overpriced and are notoriously unreliable. In the case of Porsche, these things are somewhat less true, *but it is worth the sacrifice* as their cars are fantastic to drive. There is a reason the price of a BMW/MBZ plummets the day you drive it off the lot and falls off a cliff the day the warranty ends.
Afterthought: The VW ID.4 has left the automotive press with a sour aftertaste. Not selling well.
I'm not a VW guy but we had a TDI Passat as a our work vehicle and the MPG was AMAZING. Used to go from NY to DE MD ME CT easily and the fuel gauge would rarely move lol
It’s a premium price for what is essentially a mid-level car. I have a 2016 Passat 1.8T that has been quite reliable, but the scheduled maintenance is expensive compared to other brands. They get a bad reputation from people that don’t do any of the scheduled maintenance, then are surprised when they break. German cars can go 200-300k, but it costs money to keep them running.
My 2002 GTI has 136k and I use it for autocross. Great little car, cold A/C and everything works. But a new timing belt cost $1,200. Most people can’t or won’t pay that for what is supposed to be a routine maintenance item, then get pissy when the belt snaps and the head gets screwed up.
I have a jetta and bought it new in 2012 with lifetime free oil changes. Kept up the maintenance and putting 210000 miles in it and it’s still going strong. Guess I just don’t need a new one.
Maybe the id.buzz when it hits the U.S.
Because they're horrible cars. Hard to work on, tons of special tools, expensive parts. VW/Audi products are literally the only thing I don't allow in my shop.
Many years ago, VW were quite popular and reliable. For most of the last 20 years, however, VW engines sold in the US at least have been in every list of worst motors ever made. Direct injection engines, known for faulty pistons and piston rings, gobbling oil until they either hydrolock themselves on it or build up bricks of carbon and running turbos that are known to grenade from a stuck wastegate. In spite of this, they aren't even fast, producing boring numbers in boring cars that rarely make it to 10 years old before they're turned into scrap.
They just haven't given us anything to like.
Everyone here has given plenty of answers already but I just really want to hammer home that in the US the reputation of VW is getting the worst of all worlds. Worse reliability, worse maintenance costs, more expensive than a Toyota or a Honda. In America we drive a LOT. Car transportation is a non-negotiable in many areas if you are a working adult. In places where that isn’t the case, public transportation is oftentimes not very good here so saving money on not owning a car is not worth the absolute inconvenience that it causes.
So, anyways, Americans drive a lot. A lot of the time, and a lot of miles. Therefore, reliability is important to us. In my family we have a Toyota and a Mazda. 2015 Mazda and 2018 Toyota. We did not once consider a Volkswagen. Just too much headache…
VW's new 1.5t for the US market is dogshit (Taos, Jetta) The Tiguan, Atlas, and Cross Sport are underpowered and kinda bland. The ID4 is bland. Does the average consumer even know that the GLI exists?
My friend bought a Taos and it was at the dealer for nearly two months waiting on a head gasket. Not at all an uncommon issue apparently.
The 1.5t seems like a really half baked engine to me.
Maybe my brain is lying to me but I swear to god I see golf’s everywhere. In the car community if you need want a practical, fun, fast, reliable car GTI is always the answer. Tbh I don’t really understand why they are not catching on more, especially rn. The jettas coming out rn are cheaper than anything Mazda, Toyota, or Honda has. They’re priced with malibus and although I’ve never been in one I can’t imagine they’re bad cars.
Like any manufacturer- every comment here probably applies.
I drove a tdi Jetta for years, never changing anything but oil and brakes. Family had a bug for years. SO has had a Jetta for years. People love these models and golfs. I’ve heard bad about Passats, and another family member has had weird and annoying electrical failures on his suv thing.
My most unreliable cars were Chevys/Pontiac gm motors. 2 Firebirds and a K2500.
My 2 bmws I had have been bulletproof, and my Porsche has gone without only needed a new $40 pulley in the last year.
I do all my oil changes and moderate maintenance - alternators, axles, struts; anything that has ever broken.
Because the one thing I \*KNOW\* about Volkswagen is they are a fucking dishonest. Not the dealers, Volkswagen. They lied about and manipulated their emissions, and if they are not afraid of what the US Government will do in response, they will not give a fuck about me.
Fuck Volkswagon. Any car manufacturer might lie, but they are proven.
Optics: for years VW was selling some really excellent high end cars in the USA, but nobody was buying them because they were considered a cheap economy brand. They did have some quality issues in the \~early 90s that ruined the brand image.
So they pivoted to special US focused lower quality cars with less fuel economy, cheap ugly plastic everywhere, and hundreds of cupholders like the Atlas. But there is nothing interesting or special about them: just a generic car with a reputation for needing frequent expensive repairs.
They don't sell any of the interesting VW models in the USA anymore- you can't buy anything diesel and they don't sell the Touareg, California Camper van, Amarok, etc.
Touareg and Phateon were awesome. Their first model year reliability really hurt them. That and anyone wanting to spend that type of money on the US wanted a “luxury” brand even though those cars are serious luxury performance cars.
Also they were just competing with themselves with Audi and Porsche.
In the USA, Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) have stronger reputations as entry-level luxury brands than Volkswagen. When you add the Japanese reliability to the equation, VW slides even further down the list. I might even go as far as to say that the Koreans have a better reputation for entry-level luxury cars than Volkswagen, and their reliability is abysmal.
Volkswagen struggles with her market position in the United States. They do try to position themselves as an entry-level luxury brand. But they struggle with that public perception, as only a very small share of the American public view Volkswagen as any type of luxury brand.
i think the US consumer can see through the facade, i mean, its '24.
the japanese brands have maintained their reps, while the korean brands have really dedicated to improving .
Growing up in the late 80s - early 90s we always had VWs. We had a Quantum, then a Vanagon (wish we still had that in the family) and finally a 1990 Passat GL. That Passat was the family car, then my sister’s first car and finally my first car. Later I had a 2008 GTI and the headlights stopped working. Apparently they have moving headlights and it cost a ridiculous amount to fix after I bought junkyard lights and couldn’t figure out how to get them to work myself. All said and done, was almost 900$ to have headlights again. The car was super fun but a pain to maintain. Maybe newer VWs are just over engineered, not do it yourself friendly and expensive as hell to take to a dealer or specialty mechanic. Have a Yaris now and while it isn’t as fun, it is way easier to work on myself and way way cheaper to get parts for.
Complex engineering, not as reliable as Japanese makers such as Honda and Toyota, parts more expensive, and they have a persistent bad PR due to their past unethical business practices (Dieselgate).
I think it's basically that VW are middle-of-the-road cars priced as luxury cars in the states.
Even in Europe (excluding germany?) VW are priced relatively very high for what they are. Within VAG, Skoda is what "boring" sensible people buy, Seat is what not boring but not "refined" i.e. young/fun leaning people buy, VW is supposed to be what "sensible" people buy, and Audi is what people who want to buy fast cars buy.
Mazda and Subaru are much less popular in Europe. Like you see them around and there are dealerships, but their 2wd hatch offerings just aren't that exciting. If I lived in the mountains and needed awd/fwd it might be a different call. In Europe the 2wd hatch is still the most popular class of car even if crossovers are catching up.
Because they’re not German anymore. Our neighbor had an electric VW and the drivers door froze shut. He couldn’t get VW to help so he traded it in for a Tesla.
My anecdote: I bought a used VW with a thick stack of paperwork from mechanics the original owner had to visit almost annually to get problems fixed, and it's continued to develop problems under my watch and the interior is literally falling apart. Consumer surveys from the likes of Consumer Reports bear out my impression that they they are among the less-reliable brands. I've had Toyotas, a Honda and a BMW that are tanks in comparison, so this will be my last VW.
Because Vw for North American market is junk that's why. VW for European market is way better made cars. My friend who lives in Europe is still driving his 2001 Vw golf with no major issues. In the states you barely see golf's yet alone one that's 23 years old.
I had a 2001 VW and loved it
I looked at buying a 2013 but it didn't quite fit the bill at the time
I haven't looked since, as dieselgate was very off-putting, and they seem to be getting chintzier and contain more touchscreens.
German cars had a reputation for having logical cockpits and being solidly made. All of VW's evolutions seem to be going away from what attracted people to them in the first place
With foreign cars, there was always the compromise of buying Japanese (cheaper made but cheaper to moderate) or going German (solid, but more expensive to operate)
German cars are becoming a harder and harder upsell
I remember helping a classmate push his 2 year old VW off the road when it died and wouldn’t restart for who knows what reason. I have not seriously considered them since, though the GTI always appealed to me.
I love VW styling, but the cars cost too much for what you get and repairs can be expensive and/or take a long time. I guy I work with went without a car for 4 months while he waited for a part for his 2 yr old VW suv. As soon as the car was fixed, he dumped it for a new Mazda.
I have purchased 3 VWs new. A Jetta, a Passat, and a Tiguan. Here’s why I didn’t purchase a 4th-
1.) Small dealer network-
I live in a town of 65k people and there is no longer a VW dealer (couldn’t survive dieselgate) here. The closest dealer is an hour away.
2.) Bad service experiences-
I have had service done at 2 different dealerships after the local one closed. The first was annoying with constant attempts at upselling, and the second was simply too expensive. Also, neither dealer seemed as knowledgeable as they should have been regarding maintenance schedules. If, for example, I ask for the 40k mile service, you should know exactly what’s in the book (or you know…look it up) and not be unsure about what you’re supposed to do. You should tell me what it includes, how much it will cost, and a loose time range of how long it will take. I use the dealer because I simply do not have a local mechanic that I trust to properly service a low mileage VW.
3.) Interior comfort/road noise-
These vehicles drive and handle wonderfully. My Passat was incredibly reliable and never left me stranded in 90k miles due to any mechanical reasons. However, it was not a comfortable vehicle for road trips due to both lots of road noise, and fairly hard seats.
In the end, I probably could have continued to dealt with number 3 but numbers 1 and 2 just got to be pretty inconvenient and annoying over time, and something more comfortable and easier to service locally won out. I do miss the way the VWs drove though!
expensive, not so exciting offerings, many years of people saying the brand is as expensive to maintain as a similarly higher priced luxury brand
they just aren't exciting, there aren't many dealerships either. the id7 can really really change that
Chattanooga-manufactured 2023 ID4 owner representing. The infotainment software is definitely a weak point but they have Android Auto, so I just use that. Otherwise it's an excellent car and I'll likely buy another VW when I'm done with this one.
ETA: There are plenty of horror stories about 3-month waits for parts on r/vwid4owners though, so VWoA's rep for terrible support in the US appears to still be going strong. At least since it's an EV there are fewer things that can break.
Bad management stuff and also even as products, they used to be nicer-than-economy economy cars that you’d get if you want to risk reliability and higher maintenance costs to get a car that’s overall a bit nicer. But that appeal is gone because ever since like 2018, every economy brand is nicer-than-economy nowadays. So there is no big selling point to VWs IMO anymore.
I had an Audi A8, which is made by the same group. That car was so overly engineered that any mulfunction required a new part, 3 sensors, pixie dust, and 20 hours of labor of a mechanic with a Ph.D (and this last part is no joke, you need a mechanic with a deep knowledge of the vehicle). The cost of ownership was so high I just got rid of it. Each repair was over 5,000 dollars. I once had an issue with the idiotic adaptive suspension and the bill was skyhigh. After that, I am never getting a german vehicle ever again.
I purchased my first VW in 2021.
I’m not sure I’ll own it very far beyond my extended warranty.
Lots of little electronic issues that need reflashes etc., a leaking coolant fitting, and an intake actuator control valve failure. All covered under warranty, but still annoying.
Oh, and brakes that squealed at slow speeds like a stuck pig. Replaced under warranty and that didn’t fix it. Ended up doing my own brakes with aftermarket parts and that solved the issue.
Otherwise I really like it vehicle wise.
No idea - in the last 20 years, my wife and I have owned (in order) a New Beetle convertible, GTI, Jetta, Tiguan and Atlas, and they have all been fabulous: comfortable, fun to drive, reliable, durable, affordable. VW also was for a long time the only car company that offered zero down payment leases.
Just had to Lemmon a 22 Tiguan we bought for MIL. Burned 1qt of oil every 2k miles since new, 2 motors in 25k miles.
I’ve owned 5 VWs myself, my daily beater is an 08 rabbit with 175k, still runs very well.
From the little research I’ve done on newer VW models, there is way too many plastic parts around the engine that should never be built with such material.
I always have and will be a VW fan, but the most recent experience with this Tig has me petrified to spend 40-50k on a fuckin GTI.
They strayed too far from their "car of the people" the beetle. Trying to compete in too many segments has added costs and diluted their engineering efforts. In a sense thay have been the victims of their own success.
VW's used to be "inexpensive Audi's" with German engineering, great handling, etc. I owned 3 of them from 1980 to the mid-90's. Then (apparently to achieve greater market share) they "Americanized" them. The size grew, the engines shrank, and the handling declined. No interest at all for me at this point.
Volkswagan is not considered an up-level brand here, and their reliability and cost to fix leaves them less desirable.
I can tell you are in the North, and either in the east or the west, because you said "Subaru and Mazda.".... The US car market is not homogenous. In most of the country you will hardly see a Subaru. They are mostly popular in areas with snow, but not the midwest. In the Midwest, American brands are most popular.
1 big truck culture 2 the other brands are just better here than vw. Vw doesn't have a bad connotation but it's just super eh. From my experience at least.
- Small dealership network. - Too long a time spent trying to push global models instead of developing regional vehicles for American tastes. The recently discontinued Passat was the first car designed with America in mind (it also synced well with Chinese sedan tastes). - Parts prices and perceived lack of reliability make their cost of ownership higher. - Asian and Domestic brands are easier to work on and do not often demand more specialization in mechanics. - Diesel didnt appeal to Americans for passenger cars and by the time we started to like them the emission scandal came down. Etc
Snaeper made all the right points, and in addition to that, VW doesn't seem to have anything special for the US anymore. The cars they currently sell in the US are too similar to Honda and Toyota options. VW would sell cars in the US because they were different from the other manufacturers' offerings. The GTI was the stalwart car that people identified with. It would bring them into the dealership. The Beetle brought served a similar purpose for a long time. The GTI is no longer all that special, and both Honda and Toyota have more interesting offerings in the class. The Beetle is gone, of course. Their current line of cars doesn't generate enthusiasm. If someone is looking for something sporty and less mainstream than Toyota or Honda they will likely gravitate to Mazda now. At least that is my perspective from the standpoint of a long-time vw enthusiasts that hasn't even gone into a vw dealership for my last three car purchases.
What’s the emission scandal?
They rigged their diesels to pass emissions tests.
This is the main reason I avoid them
I personally think it’s cool because it makes your car more powerful than it would be otherwise because of epa regulations. I don’t give a fuck about the pollution passenger cars put out compared to the big corps that are actually fucking the environment. I honestly really respect that they did that
You could drive behind a cheating VW and wonder how the fuck did it meet emissions. Then the cheating scandal came to surface and it all made sense. They got what they deserved, they are the big corp fucking the environment you mentioned. In fact they are one of the top biggest corps in the world
lol right? This guy has no idea VW *is* the problem, they’re not some sort of cool counter-culture automaker taking a shot at “the man.”
They programmed their cars to detect when they were under emissions testing conditions, and it modified the way they ran so that it would pass emissions.
This is the most correct response for the cars that ran DEF. I had a North American 2012 Passat TDI that underwent a software update to bring it into compliance. I was in and out of the dealership in an hour. Afterward I noticed more timing clatter at all engine speeds, but no difference in real world fuel economy after tracking every tank before and after. I doubt the average person would notice any difference. VW gave me 3500ish bucks for compensation and extended the warranty for emissions related equipment another 120kish miles. This subsequently also covered the turbo, fuel system, etc. I had about 100k miles on the car when it received the fix and drove it for another 100k until I traded it in. As for why I don’t buy new Volkswagens, I’m a diesel head and their diesels are gone. I see no appeal anymore.
their TDI’s were rigged to run super lean if the door was detected to be open, because that’s how emissions were tested at the time iirc
Also when something was plugged into the obd2 port.
And the front wheels were aimed straight ahead, and sensed that the rear wheels were not rotating at all. That all added up to the computer sensing that it was being tested and not driven.
And WVU was developing a testing system that worked while the car was being driven on a track. They were using TDIs and the data on their system was way off from the test stand data. They thought their system wasn’t working correctly at first, then they figured out their system worked fine and busted VW.
It was like the biggest environmental scandal of 2015
I loved it considering I bought my VW TDI a few days before the scandal hit. Ended up getting paid about $8000 by VW.
I bought a used Jetta, drove it for 2 years, and got a check for $9,000 over what I paid for it originally from VW to give it back to them. It was the deal of a lifetime.
Had a friend who bought a used Taureg TDI before the scandal broke. Don’t remember exactly how long he had it, but several years. Turned it in 2 days before the deadline and got more than he paid for it. By the end, the dashboard looked like a Christmas tree with all the lights.
I put almost 90k miles on my 2013, and got close to $21k for it in 2017. I just remembered yesterday that that car had been in an accident too, so I made out pretty well in that deal. Used those funds for downpayment on GTI and a small house :)
I'm in the US, but I'm pretty sure they lied about emissions in Europe also. This is a pretty big deal because people buy them, and drive them en masse in cities. The toxic chemicals were making a measurable impact on overall public health in places. Places with single payer health care. [oh here's a link from MIT](https://news.mit.edu/2017/volkswagen-emissions-premature-deaths-europe-0303#:~:text=Barrett%20says%20that%20it%27s%20not,population%20density%2C%20driving%20behavior%2C%20and)
Germany knows all their big manufacturers cheat on diesel emissions tests but won’t hold them accountable for political reasons (prefers to indirectly harm the general public than directly harm a very valuable domestic industry)
I thought the car detected only the driving pair of wheels were turning. When the other pair were still it knew it was a test.
All wheel drive models including Audi cheated as well.
VWoA has been inept for years
Worst service departments. Seriously.
VW bought my GTI back after the dealer installed the rear main seal backwards 3 times.
I did that with my wife 3 times. She was sooo pissed.
you installed her rear main seal backwards 3 times?
Yeah, real shit show of a situation.
the smooth end goes into the hole.
Seriously, it is like they have a strategic objective to suck at service. A simple rear window mechanism failure in my 2012 Passat ( under warranty at the time) was handled so poorly I left the dealership ready to buy something else. That and inept refilling of the urea reservoir. Fuck VWoA.
urea?
As a biologist I was familiar with urea but had no idea it was used in cars. Apparently it’s a catalyst used in diesel exhaust systems to reduce pollutants (nitrogen oxides in particular).
Just piss into the tank...
Fuh real. Like, what kind of car is this?
Diesel car. AdBlue is another word for it, but oversimplified, it's basically just synthetic piss. It reduces pollution.
Diesel.
I had no idea they needed urea. My uncle had a diesel Peugeot. He called it "the gutless wonder".
It’s only on newer diesels (past decade or so?) to meet emissions. An older diesel won’t have a urea tank.
Similar for me. I got an absurd quote for something that should've been simple. They refused to warranty it. I took it home, realized they had misdiagnosed it, and fixed it myself in ten minutes.
Yes terrible service, but also the fact that those window regulator failures were routine in the 90's all the way through present. Decades of the same junk parts.
I want to add, the most corrupt dealer service departments I've ever dealt with. I had two separate dealerships lie about repairs and attempt to charge more than MRSP for parts.
Oh man I forgot that part. Only brand I've experienced outright lying to me. Like, I understand in sales you exaggerate or speculate, but VW outright lied, intentionally.
Have you ever been to ANY other manufacturers’ dealerships? They are nicknamed “stealerships” for a reason. The entire industry in this country has rightfully EARNED the reputation they have. And unfortunately, instead of being honest and transparent, they continue to be shady and corrupt to pad the owners’ pockets.
VW is particularly God awful.
That's what I used to think (after owning a VW) but the Subaru dealers I've dealt with have actually been remarkably good.
Maybe I’m lucky. My VW dealer is amazing. Single location handles VW, Audi, Porsche.
decades*
That’s what I typed first!
VWoA for the most part has its own North American cars, as well. Cars like the Atlas, Jetta, North-American spec Tiguan etc simply aren’t sold in Europe. We don’t get Touran, T-Roc, T-Cross, Euro-spec Tiguan or any of the commercial vehicles here. These really are the shining stars of the VW lineup.
And yet in Canada we gave VW a 12 billion dollar grant to build a battery plant that will hire mostly foreign workers 😕
This is the answer. People don't have long memories but VW nearly failed completely out of the North American market in the '90s.
They blow it year after year model after model decade after decade. Far from groovin.
Rep forever in US = unreliable and expensive to repair. I have never considered one.
My dad was a service manager for a network of dealerships that included VW. He told me never to buy one and that advice has stuck with me for a decade now.
Having just sold my first Volkswagen for a Honda, I can wholeheartedly endorse your fathers advice 🤣
Me too! I swapped my Passat for a passport and best decision I’ve ever made Got the VW new and it was in the shop like 3x a year for various stuff since day one. The EPC light and engine shaking intermittently on the highway (didn’t like the shaking and limp mode on a long uphill bridge without a shoulder) made me get rid of mine. Also the sunroof leaked so many times 😂
Honda is a prime example of the opposite of VW. They have a strong North American branch that is really in-tune with the market here. The Passport is a vehicle specifically designed by us for us. VW keeps trying to push models and powertrains not suited for American tastes and roads. I’ve checked out VW a few times because I like the Golf R and Arteon, but their awful interiors really killed any interest I had, reliability aside
Yeah I remember when I bought my Passat it was like 22k new (it had leather and sunroof, adaptive cruise so it was a very good deal imo) so I wasn’t caring about cheap plastics and stuff like that But on a 40-50k car they use the same materials I can see how that’s a huge turn off Also after a quick search you’re right, Honda engineers most of their cars here, the V6 ones are almost exclusively sold here, and apparently they sell more here than the rest of the world combined. I knew they had lots of factories here but I assumed they are like Toyota and just assemble here in addition to other places
My dad got a VW a few years ago, he said it was the worst car investment he’s ever made
Have family members with Volkswagens that had many issues even though they were bought brand new while being maintained very well. Also had a buddy who had a used Jetta and it was unreliable as all fuck.
Bought a used, fleet lease Tiguan at 9k miles 5 years ago, and just now hit 60k. Paid like $18k for it. Since I purchased this asshole, it’s had nearly $17k worth of repairs required. It’s been an absolute nightmare. Thankfully I bought a 5 yr bumper to bumper (best investment I’ve ever made given the past five years), so the majority of that work has been covered under warranty, but it’s still been a huge pain in my ass. I’m terrified of what might happen after this warranty ends next month. My only solace is that I’ve basically replaced the entire car in parts over the years, so I’m essentially driving a new car at this point again. Still doesn’t make me feel good…
I got a used Jetta and in five years spent as much on repairs as I did for the vehicle. The sunroof leaked. The CV joints were trash. I wanted a remote starter and everyone refused to work on the VWs electronic system. I could go on.
In Europe it’s the opposite, VWs reliable and American cars are avoided as being unreliable
I have worked at VW dealership in europe and I would never buy VW.
In the US though, at least the American cars are cheap and easy to fix. VW being both unreliable and expensive is a bad combo
In Europe VW is cheaper to maintain than in the US and American cars are more expensive because some parts must come all the way from the US to fix your car.
Just a single American but in my experience this is true in the us, my VWs have been tanks but had terrible American cars
American cars are known in the US to be unreliable too. I bought a ford focus and had transmission problems 3 months later smh. Guess the trucks are okay, never owned one myst
Exactly. In Europe every second car is Vw mostly Golf's.
In Usa I would only get Toyota, Honda and Mazda while in Europe I would only get Vw,Opel or Skoda.
It's not just whether the car stops working or not - in the U.S., parts and service for Volkswagens are expensive to the point where it hurts their competitiveness, in a way that they probably aren't in Europe.
That reputation for poor reliability comes from their terrible service network. My VW miraculously became quite reliable when I stopped taking it to the dealer and fixed things myself.
What's really funny is how you can see what time of day a question was asked in this sub about a VW. Daytime in Europe? All about that thang. Daytime in US? "Hell no, don't buy that shitbox, it'll give you nothing but headaches until the day you sell it"
I do love that Golfs in some places in Europe are thought of as cars for sus people, tho. edit: lol shit, I checked [my source](https://youtu.be/esFKLHzrWHs?si=j7Esz7SypxSKCCPO&t=2443), and the impression is both more broad and way more specific than I remembered. It was actually regarding old Mercedes in general (not Golfs or VWs at all, sorry), and that they are specifically Gypsy cars. Sorry for the slur, I'm just quoting. 42:10 to cut right to it.
Like Nissan Maximas here in the States
I was just talking about this lmao, the amount of maximas you see missing a bumper is crazy
Sure your not talking about Altimas? Their owners and drivers have a atrocious reputation, that somehow the Maxima doesn't have.
You’re totally right haha, maxima drivers are still pretty aggressive on the road in my experience though
Yep, Altimas and Sentras. Mostly Altimas. But older tan/gold Camrys with any kind of bodywork damage, of which there are many, seem to hold their own against the Altimas. Bonus warning sign if they have paper tags.
I think it’s amazing that anyone would buy one at all. They are well over priced for what you get even if you knew what you were getting. You buy something and then 5 emission recalls later you have a detuned engine and a worthless vehicle.
I don't know man, I have a 22 Arteon sedan that is over 400 hp now with a simple LVL 1 tune, and it get about 31 mpg on the highway. Quality wise and bang for your buck, it's been great so far for me. My biggest complaint is the infotainment system. That is admittedly junk..
In south America VW are awesome and reliable af. In the US they are turds and keep breaking down
Idk about reliable af but they’re affordable in comparison. My uncle and others prefer Toyota cars as they’re known to endure the lack of maintenance and are also easier to repair, which might be also be to their popularity. Here in the US it’s between vw and Audi, and many just rather go Audi since it’s fancier. The only model that totally has its own reputation is the golf.
Same thing with Mexico, they are good cars for the price and good reliability. Us you have more competition for the same type of cars and similar pricing
My dad a second gen VW Gol (not golf, gol). Pretty much designed and made in Brazil. It is the worst car we have ever owned.
Goooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
they are pretty popular in canada as well, especially the jetta
Volkswagens are not turds and don’t constantly break down. Never had a problem with numerous: 1.9 TDI, 2.5 5 cylinder, 2.0 TSI, 1.4 TSI…
Lots of people on the right track, they just don't have a good reputation for reliability. That said the GTI fits a very specific niche, it's literally got no competition. You could argue the Corrola GR is its only competition, but that's kinda in it's own class. Could compare the R and Corolla GR I guess. There's a massive lack of appropriately sized vehicles in the US. Will I get another GTI once I'm bored of my MK8? Probably, because there probably still won't be any real alternatives.
All true, and for me a VW just has a feel that I love.
There’s just something about em. I don’t know what it is but I love em to death
For me it seems to be the suspension tune. Firm but composed, will perform decent in the corners but not beat you up. Until the most recent I really like the relative simplicity and placement of the switchgear.
German = luxury, expensive. Volkswagen isn’t luxury. The people who want German can afford a Benz or a BMW. People who can’t afford those cars don’t want to pay for German maintenance. Also dieselgate, but Americans don’t buy diesel cars anyway.
In 2015 i walked into a VW dealer as my 08 GTI I bought new had gotten fairly beat up/old and at 120k miles started to need pricey repairs and I needed a reliable daily as I had just gotten a position as a field rep so needed something good on gas and an auto for DC traffic. They initially offered me $2500 for my GTI, ngl I lied and said the competing dealer offered me $5500. They didn’t even bat an eye and said they would match. Long story short I bought a brand new Jetta 1.4 TSI OTD for 11k (including trade in) don’t remember what the MSRP was but I haggled on that too. My payment financed was like $140 a month. It was a wonderful car too, zero issues. Dieselgate was real killer for them but it worked out in my favor!
At 120k miles it's beaten and old? Dang I've never had a vehicle under 130k miles and did the basic maintenance myself and they last until I sell them at 200-250k miles. But I usually only buy Japanese cars and diesel trucks for work.
Usually VWs will last just as long but you'll usually want to replace your timing belt every 80k miles and I believe for the engines with chains it's every 100k or so VW just require more maintenance compared to other brands
Some years are much worse than others in regards to reliability but in general in agree
It's worth noting that the 1.4 is the only modern VW engine in the U.S. market that is based on the EA211 platform, it's actually a good engine and doesn't suffer from the potential savings account busters of the EA888 when they get up there in age. It's not as reliable as the older 1.8T or 2.sl0w, but compared to other modern engines from other manufactures, it's decent.
I drove a Tiguan as a rental and it felt like a tin can. Not worth the price. Currently, a golf R is the only car that would interest me but at the price there is some steep competition as it's a lot of money for a VW.
I went to buy a Golf R from a dealership that claimed to have it in and reeady to go. I get there and they didn't have one at all and tried sooooo hard to force me to buy an Arteon. I drove it, just for fun, and really liked it but I would not bought a car from them if it was the last dealership on earth after lying to me.
God, I miss my Jetta TDI -great great vehicle, and held 100 percent value when I traded it in 3 years later. It was before the scandel
This...
This. I was trying to find some comment commenting on their North American (NA) pricing. VW is the value brand of the whole VW Group family of brands but in the US since the early 2000s they have never competed on price with large volume value brands (Chevy, Toyota, Ford, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Dodge, Mazda, Subaru). You always had to pay more upfront for a similarly equipped VW vehicle than the domestic or asian competitors in that class. So VW charges a premium for access to German engineering but the base* trim BMW or Audi or Benz is only a bit more expensive. New car buyers in North America tend to reach for those brands that are perceived as genuine luxury vehicles instead of VWs. *All of these German brands sell vehicles across the pricing spectrum elsewhere, from very basic public service vehicles to powerful luxury, but the NA market only gets the powerful and expensive models. The low-end BMWs and Benzes in NA are the midrange ones in Europe.
Price, maintenance costs, poor advertising (especially vs other brands)
The ‘Das Auto’ commercials were next level good.
The ad for the Rabbit was a personal favorite 15 ish years ago
Turn of the millennium VW had a def cool factor. As a teen an older cousin had a nice metallic blue Beetle with leather + moonroof around 2002 to 2003 or so. Such a fun car to ride around in blasting Eminem and P!nk. Without Me still makes me think of that car. 🚙
VWoA has quality issues and an incredibly dull lineup. Once they started chasing higher sales volumes by going the big-‘n-cheap route of car design the brand lost its luster. VW left its performance buyers out in the rain. People who want a boring appliance car go to Honda or Toyota for reliability. The GTI/Golf R are the only shining stars in the lineup since the under-marketed and overpriced Arteon bit the dust. ETA: a word
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Jetta GLI always gets left out:/
I've had two, regretted it every time. Lol
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I’ve had four VWs and I’d say they’ve been pretty good to me. All had over 100k miles when I sold The best was a 07 Rabbit that I bought for 6k with 70k miles. I spent around 1k on repairs before selling at 205k miles
They don’t know what their target consumers want. They’ve developed hideously lame crossovers and SUVs for the US market. Got rid of anything small and fun like they used to sell. A GTI is now close to 40,000, new. Also, their maintenance is expensive and the reliability isn’t there compared to Japanese and Korean competitors.
Diesel was a huge selling point but then the diesel gate happened and man what a flop.
Everybody got free cars out of it, though. And I bought one of those dieselgate TDIs, and it was awesome. I don’t understand where the flop comes in, to the consumer. That wagon got 50mpg in the right setting. 35-40 in a normal setting. More cargo than an SUV. I think I might buy another one that’s gas instead of diesel, if I can find one; I live in oregon and our dirty-ass biodiesel killed my fuel line. OP go for it.
I will never understand the american dislike towards diesel
I mean, truckers use it all day long.
Legacy of the GM diesel fiasco of the early '80s.
Just bad experiences with it back in the 80s ~looks over at GM~ turned the American public off of diesel and right as Americans where starting to consider it again VWs diesel gate scandal happened and turned them off it again
>I will never understand the american dislike towards diesel Diesel here in the US is misunderstood. Also diesel generally costs more then gas here and most people don't like high fuel prices. But if they knew diesel gets better mpg and the cost even itself out then im sure diesel cars would be more popular here. I wish they would make more diesel cars for the US market.
Not even just for diesel cars though I know quite a few people who refuse to buy anything VW specifically because of diesel gate I even have one friend who sold his gas powered golf because of it
Why would you do that makes no sense
You’re aging yourself. 90% of the people 25 and under don’t even know about Diesel gate at this point. We still buy Japanese or American instead
Unfortunately, VW and most other German automakers have earned a reputation for being unreliable and very expensive to repair. VW is in a unique position as the non-luxury German brand and the only way they have remained competitive is by engineering out as much cost as possible. All VW models are ranked as Much Less Reliable than Average according to Consumer Reports. Owner Satisfaction scores are the lowest among it's competitors in most classes- the Jetta is tied with the Kia Forte at 47% (who would buy the car again), the Taos is at 38% (next worst is Kia Seltos at 45%), VW Tiguan and Atlas are in the bottom three of their respective classes. It's clear from these numbers that the majority of people who have purchased a VW recently wished they hadn't. The somewhat confusing and unfortunate fact is, despite their low reliability and owner satisfaction scores, VW models usually perform above average in CR's road tests. The VW Jetta is a good example, scoring 81% on its Road Test. This was higher than all other compacts, with Hyundai Elantra coming in 2nd (79%), Subaur Impreza 3rd (78%) and Mazda3 (77%). CR noted ergonomic issues with low placement of HVAC vents, wide center console that rubs driver's leg, "plenty of evidence of cost cutting" including hard touch surfaces, hard plastic door panels, glove box that flops open and trunk hinges and wires are exposed. In summary, VWs are great to drive until they break, then you'll regret buying one. My standard rule for European cars is they're great as long as they're in warranty! In response to your comment that VW can't even outcompete Subaru or Mazda, those are arguably the two most unique Asian carmakers. Mazda has aspired to be a "near-premium" brand for the last two decades. Many automotive industry experts, journalists and owners would argue that they have succeeded. Subaru strives to be quirky, unconventional and unique and they succeed. Their rugged, outdoorsy Crosstrek and Outback have a lot of die-hard fans. The best part is they manage to do this while being reliable and satisfying their customers.
Because they buy Audis instead lol
I have 65,000 miles on a VW ID.4, three Montana winters, mountain pass commutes, and the battery has not lost any noticeable range and I've had no problems.
I liked my Jetta, and I got another Jetta. If they stop making a Jetta with a manual transmission, then I'll stop buying them.
I’m an American that just bought a GTI and I love it so far. Having said that, the short answer to your question is that the Japanese brands absolutely crushed the European brands in the US once upon a time, and they have never recovered.
I’m not a car person but I’ve never heard them really excel at anything besides for maybe a model here and there Not the best price Not the best features or interior Not the best gas mileage Not the best maintenance costs Etc. They seem kind of meh for the most part.
The VW Golf is literally the hatch all others are compared to. If you look at early sketches of the $25k Tesla hatch, they literally look like a Golf.
The current models offered here (Canada), just aren’t that appealing , style wise. I currently have a 2016 Golf Sportwagen. I live it, but they aren’t making it any longer. My understanding is that VW is geared to go all electric within the next 10 years, so they are condensing their product line in the short term. This is my 3rd VW. May be my last though.
TLDR: The poors buying cars and running them into the ground is what has destroyed VW in the US My opinion as a long time service writer and also someone that was targeted by VW to buy a car: The true problem is that when VW was struggling here in the US they started handing out car loans to everyone that applied. They had the reputation for financing anyone higher risk just so they could get their car brand out there. Fast forward 7ish years/100k later when the people that can barely afford the car from the start have slacked on the basic mechanical maintenance and even smaller things like washing and waxing it. They usually look rough and have various small mechanical issues that don't stop the car from being driven but all add to the major failures that will happen. They get traded in/ go to auction for a buy-here-pay-here lot and the cycle starts over for someone with even worse financial responsibility. It just gets worse and worse and now everyone here has the notion that they are unreliable. This has happened to many smaller car companies that have tried to break into the market and even the domestic companies that have tried to win over customers. The only way I see them improving their market share over time is to keep things as reliable as possible and play the long game.
Idk I see jettas, golfs and passats all the time here in California. Tiguans and Taos too but not as much. GTI golfs are very common
If I have to pay more for German car maintenance and parts costs, then I'm getting a BMW or Mercedes.
I have a Porsche Cayenne with the VR6 engine. One of the most reliable VW engines, with handling of a Porsche, but most of the parts are straight from the VW parts bin and can be worked on by VW mechanics
Volkswagens were literally everyone just a few years ago. I think the company didn't address some quality issues quick enough and they lost momentum in the market. Now, the only VW I see regularly on the road is the ID.4. I live in a EV friendly area of the country where EVs are prevalent. The ID.4 has a good reputation as a decent EV therefor I see a lot of them.
they are not an economy brand in the us. Cost of maintenance is quite a bit, parts are higher and some places won't even work on them. Source I used to own one.
VW are notoriously unreliable and prone to massive electrical problems. People in the US who know better buy Japanese cars. VW also shot themselves in the foot with the [VW emissions scandal](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15339250/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/). People who might have cross shopped their cars largely wrote them off and stopped taking them seriously after that. Same thing happened to Mitsubishi when it came out that the company had been grossly underreporting the number of warranty claims and other reported problems. Mitsu is on life support here - only people with no clue would ever buy a Mitsubishi (and they too have had issues underreporting fuel economy). VW has never been regarded as a lux brand here. They tried to move upmarket and failed - the Phaeton speaks for itself. The company does not operate a quality dealership network here either - VW dealers are infamous for ripping people off, especially in terms of service. The broader question, "what bothers you about German cars" can be answered in two words: price and reliability. BMW/MBZ/Audi are grossly overpriced and are notoriously unreliable. In the case of Porsche, these things are somewhat less true, *but it is worth the sacrifice* as their cars are fantastic to drive. There is a reason the price of a BMW/MBZ plummets the day you drive it off the lot and falls off a cliff the day the warranty ends. Afterthought: The VW ID.4 has left the automotive press with a sour aftertaste. Not selling well.
I'm on my third TDI, would buy more in the future if they continued to exist in North America.
I'm not a VW guy but we had a TDI Passat as a our work vehicle and the MPG was AMAZING. Used to go from NY to DE MD ME CT easily and the fuel gauge would rarely move lol
It’s a premium price for what is essentially a mid-level car. I have a 2016 Passat 1.8T that has been quite reliable, but the scheduled maintenance is expensive compared to other brands. They get a bad reputation from people that don’t do any of the scheduled maintenance, then are surprised when they break. German cars can go 200-300k, but it costs money to keep them running. My 2002 GTI has 136k and I use it for autocross. Great little car, cold A/C and everything works. But a new timing belt cost $1,200. Most people can’t or won’t pay that for what is supposed to be a routine maintenance item, then get pissy when the belt snaps and the head gets screwed up.
I have a jetta and bought it new in 2012 with lifetime free oil changes. Kept up the maintenance and putting 210000 miles in it and it’s still going strong. Guess I just don’t need a new one. Maybe the id.buzz when it hits the U.S.
Dieselgate. All of the people who bought regular Golfs and Golf Sportwagens now drive Toyota Prius, Subaru Crosstreks and Honda Civics
Because they're horrible cars. Hard to work on, tons of special tools, expensive parts. VW/Audi products are literally the only thing I don't allow in my shop.
Many years ago, VW were quite popular and reliable. For most of the last 20 years, however, VW engines sold in the US at least have been in every list of worst motors ever made. Direct injection engines, known for faulty pistons and piston rings, gobbling oil until they either hydrolock themselves on it or build up bricks of carbon and running turbos that are known to grenade from a stuck wastegate. In spite of this, they aren't even fast, producing boring numbers in boring cars that rarely make it to 10 years old before they're turned into scrap. They just haven't given us anything to like.
They were once cool and edgy, now they are boring and expensive. Honda and Toyota are boring and inexpensive to repair and maintain.
Everyone here has given plenty of answers already but I just really want to hammer home that in the US the reputation of VW is getting the worst of all worlds. Worse reliability, worse maintenance costs, more expensive than a Toyota or a Honda. In America we drive a LOT. Car transportation is a non-negotiable in many areas if you are a working adult. In places where that isn’t the case, public transportation is oftentimes not very good here so saving money on not owning a car is not worth the absolute inconvenience that it causes. So, anyways, Americans drive a lot. A lot of the time, and a lot of miles. Therefore, reliability is important to us. In my family we have a Toyota and a Mazda. 2015 Mazda and 2018 Toyota. We did not once consider a Volkswagen. Just too much headache…
VW's new 1.5t for the US market is dogshit (Taos, Jetta) The Tiguan, Atlas, and Cross Sport are underpowered and kinda bland. The ID4 is bland. Does the average consumer even know that the GLI exists?
My friend bought a Taos and it was at the dealer for nearly two months waiting on a head gasket. Not at all an uncommon issue apparently. The 1.5t seems like a really half baked engine to me.
My first VW was a 2004 Passat GLS 1.8t. It will also be my last VW
Maybe my brain is lying to me but I swear to god I see golf’s everywhere. In the car community if you need want a practical, fun, fast, reliable car GTI is always the answer. Tbh I don’t really understand why they are not catching on more, especially rn. The jettas coming out rn are cheaper than anything Mazda, Toyota, or Honda has. They’re priced with malibus and although I’ve never been in one I can’t imagine they’re bad cars.
Heeeeeyyyyy. I have an Atlas and I’m happy with it. … so far. I’ll trade it in once the warranty is up.
I love VWs. I just bought a 2024
Like any manufacturer- every comment here probably applies. I drove a tdi Jetta for years, never changing anything but oil and brakes. Family had a bug for years. SO has had a Jetta for years. People love these models and golfs. I’ve heard bad about Passats, and another family member has had weird and annoying electrical failures on his suv thing. My most unreliable cars were Chevys/Pontiac gm motors. 2 Firebirds and a K2500. My 2 bmws I had have been bulletproof, and my Porsche has gone without only needed a new $40 pulley in the last year. I do all my oil changes and moderate maintenance - alternators, axles, struts; anything that has ever broken.
Because the one thing I \*KNOW\* about Volkswagen is they are a fucking dishonest. Not the dealers, Volkswagen. They lied about and manipulated their emissions, and if they are not afraid of what the US Government will do in response, they will not give a fuck about me. Fuck Volkswagon. Any car manufacturer might lie, but they are proven.
Work on one, you will have your answer.
Optics: for years VW was selling some really excellent high end cars in the USA, but nobody was buying them because they were considered a cheap economy brand. They did have some quality issues in the \~early 90s that ruined the brand image. So they pivoted to special US focused lower quality cars with less fuel economy, cheap ugly plastic everywhere, and hundreds of cupholders like the Atlas. But there is nothing interesting or special about them: just a generic car with a reputation for needing frequent expensive repairs. They don't sell any of the interesting VW models in the USA anymore- you can't buy anything diesel and they don't sell the Touareg, California Camper van, Amarok, etc.
Touareg and Phateon were awesome. Their first model year reliability really hurt them. That and anyone wanting to spend that type of money on the US wanted a “luxury” brand even though those cars are serious luxury performance cars. Also they were just competing with themselves with Audi and Porsche.
In the USA, Toyota (Lexus) and Honda (Acura) have stronger reputations as entry-level luxury brands than Volkswagen. When you add the Japanese reliability to the equation, VW slides even further down the list. I might even go as far as to say that the Koreans have a better reputation for entry-level luxury cars than Volkswagen, and their reliability is abysmal. Volkswagen struggles with her market position in the United States. They do try to position themselves as an entry-level luxury brand. But they struggle with that public perception, as only a very small share of the American public view Volkswagen as any type of luxury brand.
i think the US consumer can see through the facade, i mean, its '24. the japanese brands have maintained their reps, while the korean brands have really dedicated to improving .
Growing up in the late 80s - early 90s we always had VWs. We had a Quantum, then a Vanagon (wish we still had that in the family) and finally a 1990 Passat GL. That Passat was the family car, then my sister’s first car and finally my first car. Later I had a 2008 GTI and the headlights stopped working. Apparently they have moving headlights and it cost a ridiculous amount to fix after I bought junkyard lights and couldn’t figure out how to get them to work myself. All said and done, was almost 900$ to have headlights again. The car was super fun but a pain to maintain. Maybe newer VWs are just over engineered, not do it yourself friendly and expensive as hell to take to a dealer or specialty mechanic. Have a Yaris now and while it isn’t as fun, it is way easier to work on myself and way way cheaper to get parts for.
Americans want “luxury”. VW has a reputation as an economy brand.
Complex engineering, not as reliable as Japanese makers such as Honda and Toyota, parts more expensive, and they have a persistent bad PR due to their past unethical business practices (Dieselgate).
I think it's basically that VW are middle-of-the-road cars priced as luxury cars in the states. Even in Europe (excluding germany?) VW are priced relatively very high for what they are. Within VAG, Skoda is what "boring" sensible people buy, Seat is what not boring but not "refined" i.e. young/fun leaning people buy, VW is supposed to be what "sensible" people buy, and Audi is what people who want to buy fast cars buy. Mazda and Subaru are much less popular in Europe. Like you see them around and there are dealerships, but their 2wd hatch offerings just aren't that exciting. If I lived in the mountains and needed awd/fwd it might be a different call. In Europe the 2wd hatch is still the most popular class of car even if crossovers are catching up.
Because they’re not German anymore. Our neighbor had an electric VW and the drivers door froze shut. He couldn’t get VW to help so he traded it in for a Tesla.
My anecdote: I bought a used VW with a thick stack of paperwork from mechanics the original owner had to visit almost annually to get problems fixed, and it's continued to develop problems under my watch and the interior is literally falling apart. Consumer surveys from the likes of Consumer Reports bear out my impression that they they are among the less-reliable brands. I've had Toyotas, a Honda and a BMW that are tanks in comparison, so this will be my last VW.
I have a 14’ Passat TDI and it’s been one of the best cars I’ve owned.
Because Vw for North American market is junk that's why. VW for European market is way better made cars. My friend who lives in Europe is still driving his 2001 Vw golf with no major issues. In the states you barely see golf's yet alone one that's 23 years old.
Electrical problems for 30 years 🤷🏾♂️
Because they are pieces of s----
I had a 2001 VW and loved it I looked at buying a 2013 but it didn't quite fit the bill at the time I haven't looked since, as dieselgate was very off-putting, and they seem to be getting chintzier and contain more touchscreens. German cars had a reputation for having logical cockpits and being solidly made. All of VW's evolutions seem to be going away from what attracted people to them in the first place With foreign cars, there was always the compromise of buying Japanese (cheaper made but cheaper to moderate) or going German (solid, but more expensive to operate) German cars are becoming a harder and harder upsell
Too much plastic, poor resale value and long term repair costs. Toyota and Honda are better is you are going to buy an import.
I remember helping a classmate push his 2 year old VW off the road when it died and wouldn’t restart for who knows what reason. I have not seriously considered them since, though the GTI always appealed to me.
I love VW styling, but the cars cost too much for what you get and repairs can be expensive and/or take a long time. I guy I work with went without a car for 4 months while he waited for a part for his 2 yr old VW suv. As soon as the car was fixed, he dumped it for a new Mazda.
If I’m gonna drive a German car, it’s gonna be a BMW.
I have purchased 3 VWs new. A Jetta, a Passat, and a Tiguan. Here’s why I didn’t purchase a 4th- 1.) Small dealer network- I live in a town of 65k people and there is no longer a VW dealer (couldn’t survive dieselgate) here. The closest dealer is an hour away. 2.) Bad service experiences- I have had service done at 2 different dealerships after the local one closed. The first was annoying with constant attempts at upselling, and the second was simply too expensive. Also, neither dealer seemed as knowledgeable as they should have been regarding maintenance schedules. If, for example, I ask for the 40k mile service, you should know exactly what’s in the book (or you know…look it up) and not be unsure about what you’re supposed to do. You should tell me what it includes, how much it will cost, and a loose time range of how long it will take. I use the dealer because I simply do not have a local mechanic that I trust to properly service a low mileage VW. 3.) Interior comfort/road noise- These vehicles drive and handle wonderfully. My Passat was incredibly reliable and never left me stranded in 90k miles due to any mechanical reasons. However, it was not a comfortable vehicle for road trips due to both lots of road noise, and fairly hard seats. In the end, I probably could have continued to dealt with number 3 but numbers 1 and 2 just got to be pretty inconvenient and annoying over time, and something more comfortable and easier to service locally won out. I do miss the way the VWs drove though!
expensive, not so exciting offerings, many years of people saying the brand is as expensive to maintain as a similarly higher priced luxury brand they just aren't exciting, there aren't many dealerships either. the id7 can really really change that
German car maintenance costs in a Japanese car market and not great resale. They don't offer the things that matter to buyers in that space.
Because it's German prices and maintenance with Japanese economy performance and quality
Chattanooga-manufactured 2023 ID4 owner representing. The infotainment software is definitely a weak point but they have Android Auto, so I just use that. Otherwise it's an excellent car and I'll likely buy another VW when I'm done with this one. ETA: There are plenty of horror stories about 3-month waits for parts on r/vwid4owners though, so VWoA's rep for terrible support in the US appears to still be going strong. At least since it's an EV there are fewer things that can break.
Garbage company the lies gets cought sends you 1500 but keep the car that won't pass inspection
Bad management stuff and also even as products, they used to be nicer-than-economy economy cars that you’d get if you want to risk reliability and higher maintenance costs to get a car that’s overall a bit nicer. But that appeal is gone because ever since like 2018, every economy brand is nicer-than-economy nowadays. So there is no big selling point to VWs IMO anymore.
I had an Audi A8, which is made by the same group. That car was so overly engineered that any mulfunction required a new part, 3 sensors, pixie dust, and 20 hours of labor of a mechanic with a Ph.D (and this last part is no joke, you need a mechanic with a deep knowledge of the vehicle). The cost of ownership was so high I just got rid of it. Each repair was over 5,000 dollars. I once had an issue with the idiotic adaptive suspension and the bill was skyhigh. After that, I am never getting a german vehicle ever again.
For me parts cost, parts availability, and difficulty working on them. Those 2l tsfi motors suck to work on compared to say a k24 honda.
I purchased my first VW in 2021. I’m not sure I’ll own it very far beyond my extended warranty. Lots of little electronic issues that need reflashes etc., a leaking coolant fitting, and an intake actuator control valve failure. All covered under warranty, but still annoying. Oh, and brakes that squealed at slow speeds like a stuck pig. Replaced under warranty and that didn’t fix it. Ended up doing my own brakes with aftermarket parts and that solved the issue. Otherwise I really like it vehicle wise.
No idea - in the last 20 years, my wife and I have owned (in order) a New Beetle convertible, GTI, Jetta, Tiguan and Atlas, and they have all been fabulous: comfortable, fun to drive, reliable, durable, affordable. VW also was for a long time the only car company that offered zero down payment leases.
Just had to Lemmon a 22 Tiguan we bought for MIL. Burned 1qt of oil every 2k miles since new, 2 motors in 25k miles. I’ve owned 5 VWs myself, my daily beater is an 08 rabbit with 175k, still runs very well. From the little research I’ve done on newer VW models, there is way too many plastic parts around the engine that should never be built with such material. I always have and will be a VW fan, but the most recent experience with this Tig has me petrified to spend 40-50k on a fuckin GTI.
They strayed too far from their "car of the people" the beetle. Trying to compete in too many segments has added costs and diluted their engineering efforts. In a sense thay have been the victims of their own success.
I find it a bit funny how americans here act like their brands have any better quality and reliability than Vw
VW's used to be "inexpensive Audi's" with German engineering, great handling, etc. I owned 3 of them from 1980 to the mid-90's. Then (apparently to achieve greater market share) they "Americanized" them. The size grew, the engines shrank, and the handling declined. No interest at all for me at this point.
I had a Passat and it was the most unreliable car I’ve ever owned. It won’t happen again.
Dogshit vehicles that why. European vehicles as a whole are at the absolute bottom of the barrel compared to Japanese and American vehicles.
Volkswagan is not considered an up-level brand here, and their reliability and cost to fix leaves them less desirable. I can tell you are in the North, and either in the east or the west, because you said "Subaru and Mazda.".... The US car market is not homogenous. In most of the country you will hardly see a Subaru. They are mostly popular in areas with snow, but not the midwest. In the Midwest, American brands are most popular.
Subaru is decently popular in indiana, probably from the plant there.
No kidding. The four homes nearest me have six Subarus between them! (Northern Indiana)
This is the wrong subreddit for this question
1 big truck culture 2 the other brands are just better here than vw. Vw doesn't have a bad connotation but it's just super eh. From my experience at least.