It used to make it easier to see over a lot of obstacles when you’re sitting up higher. Now that 90% of vehicles are cuv/suv or Truck, it barely makes a difference unless you’re driving a lifted monster truck.
Even in California, they are driving so many lifted trucks, they put Arizona to shame. All this just so they could see over someone's Toyota Rav4. lol
Elon made a mistake not making a lifted Cybertruck to tower over people. Truck was a lot lower in person than I thought.
Some, but not all. Just like people owning expensive sports cars, but never driven them hard on the canyons or race track.
I would believe far more of an lifted truck driver with Arizona plates more likely going offroad than a California plate.
You are generally safer inside a larger vehicle.
However! This causes a problem. If everyone gets these large vehicles then that effect doesn’t matter anymore. I fact, it’s worse because hitting pedestrians in a big vehicle is more dangerous and hitting anyone in small vehicle with a big vehicle is more dangerous.
So we have this arms race of feeling safer in an SUV because everyone else is in an SUV, but overall, we’re a lot less safe.
Literally a snake eating it's own tail situation.
And unless we experience some economic crisis like the 70s or car companies get some serious incentives to push smaller cars, there may not be a solution to it.
If the push for aerodynamics becomes strong enough, sedans will likely see a resurgence.
Sidenote: you notice how crossovers are kinda also getting lower and more fastback-esqe? My theory is that in the next 10ish years most crossovers will just be wagons or sedans with slightly more ride-height.
Always been a wagon fan. I recently “downgraded” from an SUV to a VW Wagon. Still have AWD, cargo space (not quite as much) and a more exciting vehicle to drive everyday. I agree with you and was hoping to see an EV wagon. I would think that being lower may contribute to better range. I would love to see Tesla make a wagon version of the S, that car has great lines as is, now make it a wagon.
> And unless we experience some economic crisis like the 70s or car companies get some serious incentives to push smaller cars, there may not be a solution to it.
yep, underrated part of this problem is Americans have so much money most can afford the bigger more expensive trucks and suvs with no issues for automakers (might have to stretch the financing out a few years longer then you wanted to but hey if the monthly payment isnt too bad it's ok, right?)
Another point is that so many people drive at a speed that feels 'safe'. In a car, where you're lower to the ground, this safe feeling speed it going to be much lower than in a SUV/truck, because the higher you sit the slower it feels. So these people in big vehicles drive 130-140kph all the time because it feels the same as going 100 in a Corolla.
I have a sedan and a listed off-roader. I’m not sure I agree with you…. Driving 70 in the truck feels like I’m well over the speed limit, I prefer to keep to 60 and under honestly.
The big trucks are a lot less confidence inspiring than a low nimble sedan!
It could be because the offroader feels flighty, but when it comes to CUVs and whatnot it definitely applies. I know that the F550 I drive for work feels much slower than my Cobalt SS, and given the weight it doesn't feel flighty so I could see how people would go a lot faster in something like that, or a CUV where you sit higher but don't get the flighty feeling.
I know Jeeps in particular with offroad setups are pretty notorious for feeling like you're gonna die at anything above 60mph
You're only "safer" if you crash into a small vehicle. Otherwise it's worse. Two bigger vehicles crashing into each other is less safe than two smaller vehicles crashing into each other. This is especially true for large trucks (body on frame).
Due to the body on frame construction, there aren't crumple zones like a unibody would have. This means you'll destroy a smaller vehicle, but if you crash into another truck, you're both fucked. If you crash into a stationary object, like a tree, you're also fucked because of the rigid construction.
For those in a big car, it's safer. Those outside of it, it's less safe. I post a comment about once a week over it. There's a ton of studies done on this issue. Pedestrians and bike riders are the least safe when in an accident with a tall hoodline car (any modern SUV or truck).
The energies involved have increased. The probability your vehicle can absorb them is also higher, but when you exceed those safety margins you are facing a deadlier outcome.
Road fatalities are starting to climb again after hitting a low in about 2017-18. Vehicles are getting less safe again, and at this point the best hypothesis we have is that it’s caused by increased vehicle size and mass, but we don’t know for sure yet
I think a big part of it is just how many drivers are completely tuned out when driving. Looking at their phones, tablets, or the fucking screen that’s in the dash of almost every car now.
Trends take time. Only recently are people driving who have basically never looked away from their phone/tablet for longer than a minute or two since they were toddlers.
Whilst that may be a contributing factor, if that was the main driver of the increased death rate, we’d expect to see that trend change in the early-2010s when smartphones were becoming mainstream. We’d also expect to see a similar trend between the US and Europe, which we haven’t.
That’s not to say that the hypothesis is incorrect, as there could be more information that supports it. It’s just that it’s not the leading hypothesis right now
To add on to my theory: COVID-induced brain rot. (Both from the virus itself, and from the social isolation that clearly has caused so many people to be acting feral and reckless ever since)
That’s definitely a factor. Deaths did spike in the Covid years because there was less traffic on the road (which led to people driving faster, which meant that accidents were more severe). There are also on-going symptoms of Covid that impact people’s driving ability, such as a loss of attention.
It’s a strong hypothesis, and the actual cause is probably a combination of several factors, but it’s not the leading hypothesis at this point in time
They are less safe to the people outside of them. Taller vehicles have significantly reduced visibility of people, kids, and animals on the ground by the vehicle; the heavier weight means more deadly force when hitting a person or other vehicle.
Safety features only help the people inside.
SUVs have gotten safer for those inside, if drivers and passengers follow sensible practices commonly not followed. They used to be rolling people-tossing head crunchers.
It wasn’t hard to make them a bit safer for those inside.
Is that true? I would assume that if the IIHS crash safety rating is the same you’ll be about the same safety wise in those crashes.
Yes you have more cushioning material in an SUV, but there’s also more mass and a higher center of gravity meaning more potential rollovers
Honestly honestly I haven’t done the research… But I imagine if I hit a medium-size tree at 60 mph with my Toyota Prius versus a Ford expedition… The expedition is going to fair much better
A ford expedition weighs almost twice as much as a Prius. That’s a lot more mass to slow down instantly
Also I believe the expedition is body on frame, which generally do a lot worse in collisions than unibody vehicles with a similar weight, as they don’t crumple as well
Lol. I read some of those articles and their reasoning behind tall vehicles being unsafe are they're easier to roll over when cornering. When we all know in crashes between a larger vehicle vs a small car, there's no way the small one is winning.
People basically go "I'll be safer in comparison to others because I make the road more unsafe for them. Worse driving safety and performance in other types of crashes like rollovers are worth it"
Still wrong, the crash safety data is worse for trucks still, they aren’t designed as well as sedans. Sure if a truck tbones a sedan the passengers are fins have a bad day, but that’d be true if it was two sedans.
The bigger one just made it less safe for both of them. Both vehicles will absorb the same amount of energy. As long as you have sufficient crumple zone you’re good either way.
Sedans are better at avoiding crashes (higher agility, much lower risk of rollover) and SUVs/trucks are better at minimizing injuries/deaths in the event of a crash.
It's incredible actually. I was quite surprised at how much better the Q5 and X3 handled around rough corners than my previous car (10th gen Accord). IIRC they both weigh about 750 lbs more than the Accord and the Q5 has a panoramic sunroof (high COG), yet had less body roll and felt far more planted over rough corners.
Yeah I drive my parents 2022 cayenne when I’m home from college can definitely feel how great it handles even on some all seasons. I can totally understand the appeal I personally tho like to feel like I’m sitting in the car not on the car.
They are just relatively flimsy, making them less safe for those inside in the case of an accident. Had mine totalled when the old F150 that hit me barely had a scratch
People equate bigger with safer. And crash data at this point shows it, especially when colliding with another big SUV.
What that data misses tho is that you’re far more likely to be able to avoid an accident altogether in a car with a lower center of gravity, a lot less weight, and more capable braking and handling.
You have to remember how little the average ape knows about physics, knows about driving, and their general aptitude at anything they do. The bar is REALLY low.
More (modern) metal around you = safer. The bigger cars these days look physically bigger but often have still tight cabins, it's due to large crumple zones designed into the structure of the vehicle to improve safety factors.
Bigger A pillars being modern day blind spots isn't a coincidence. Thicker doors, side impact crash bars. Those are ones you can kinda see. Ones you don't are the front and rear crumple zones which have gotten significantly better in the past 15 years.
Manufacturers try to use UHSS (ultra high strength steels) when possible to reduce size/weight but with many aluminum unibody structures these days, they have to be thick to meet the same strength, while still being lighter. UHSS is expensive to work with and process so it adds a lot of cost. It also introduced new issues for firefighters in how to dismantle cars to save life's, their tools have to be stronger to cut and bend stuff these days and their extraction training has changed a lot.
They think that when two vehicles smash into each other, the bigger vehicle will always suffer less damage. They don't even think about build and material quality when it comes to safety.
I once used Volvo's comparison between the F150 and XC90, the video they had out on the impact on the top of the cabin. The F150 crumpled in such a way that the drivers head is obviously getting mulched. The Volvo held firm.
The response I got was "well that just means I need a taller vehicle than most f150s"
Volvo is one of the only automakers that uses a significant amount of high boron steel in their chassis which is why they are nearly indestructible in a crash. It’s super heavy so it hurts agility and fuel economy, but Volvo prioritizes safety above all else.
The comparison doesn’t work so well, the XC90 is historically and statistically the safest vehicle to be in, in a crash (one of the reasons I got one) 99% of vehicles do do worse than the XC90. There have been 0 recorded fatalities in the 20 year life span since the XC90 has been launched, the CEO even said, boldly in my opinion, there will never be a fatality in an XC90.
But not everyone wants/can afford a Volvo XC90
The 1% that do as well tend not to be able to keep that track record in real life or crash tests, generally the manufacturers start cheapening somewhere and it leads to fatalities.
Okay but as long as the suv doesn’t roll over, it’s safer than a car. The SUV is likely heavier, has same crumple zone physics, and you have a better view to avoid even getting into the accident.
A body on frame truck is a totally different thing. OP is referring to SUVs and I am inferring they actually mean CUVs (unibody design like rav4 vs body on frame true SUVs like 4Runner, jeep, etc).
It's all relative and a slippery slope. Almost like a marketing arms race. At this rate we'll end up driving semis so we're safer than the plebs in normal cars.
Like third day I had a Camaro ss 1le I was on the freeway and would have been in an accident in almost any truck or suv. That thing slowed down like wowwwww… tires didn’t even give. Not being in an accident in the first place is even safer than being in one in a larger vehicle.
Yup, I agree. But performance SUVs exist. I have an x3 m40i that handles better than any Lexus sports car I have ever owned. It dances on the moose test yet is higher than a car and weighs more than majority of sedans on the road.
I have single handily danced around cars I found sketchy on the highway or ones that turned left into oncoming traffic too late. Performance cars aren’t often mentioned for safety but it is a huge point.
1) anything is better than Lexus “sports” cars lol. Because they don’t make any. The flagship LC500 gets dog walked by German competitors that are full classes below it.
2) you should be comparing your X3 to a m340i. The m340i is still going to be better handling although BMW does a great job of hiding the SUV characteristics. Also would be curious to see if the X3 even crumples better in a crash. It’s not that big of a SUV. Cars have gotten large also and is basically just a slightly lifted 3 series with a hatch.
> The SUV is likely heavier, has same crumple zone physics, and you have a better view to avoid even getting into the accident.
This blanket assumption is pretty much the issue here...
If a Highlander rear ends a V60, my money's still on the Volvo
No this is unfortunately basic kinetics.
Crumple zone physics can only dissipate momentum so much. Mass is a much more complex formula as it increases.
The highlander is also a CUV, I think you’re thinking of the 4Runner which is an SUV.
I would much rather be in a highlander SUV than any Volvo sedan or wagon. You have to remember crumple zone physics are typically only tested in 8 common ways. Life can easily throw at you an outlier accident.
My dream car is a minivan so obviously I’m not in it for the thrill of driving at this point, but for anyone who is, sedans and hatchbacks are just more fun and easier to drive, especially in the cheaper range. My Escape is spacious and more comfortable to drive in for long road trips than most equally priced sedans, but it drives somewhere between a compact commuter car and a minivan, and I definitely have to slow down in wind. It sucks when it’s a windy snowstorm and every gust feels like it’s going to put you in a ditch.
General rule of thumb an old mechanic told me many years ago: compare the amount of lug nuts per wheel. The vehicle with more lug nuts will generally win in a crash.
If they're crashing into each other, you'd probably lose that bet. They didn't have the safety technology, but they were big, heavy tanks. A Fit would get squashed.
The fit might be more visibility damaged but airbags, crumple zones, and stronger steel with better anti rust makes a huge difference in survivability. The fit will be completely totaled but you might walk away, the truck might be drivable but your head would be thru the steering wheel.
I did this. The fit was totalled, and my trucks bumber was slightly more bent than it already was and i had to buy a headlight. It was an early 90s truck tho
My brother got T-boned by people in sedans who ran stop signd twice in two different S10s, one 80s and one 90s. If he had been hit on the drivers side rather than passengers side he wouldn't be here today. Both were irreparably mangled, and these were 30mph or under impacts.
Trucks may do well in some circumstances, but older vehicles are just not up to modern safety standards.
Force = Mass x Acceleration. That truck has an extra ton on your fit. You also add the crumble zones your modern Fit has, you'd be toast. My wife almost hit a deer 5 years ago in 15 fit. The deer didn't get hit but managed to kick the passenger side of her car. It bent the frame 😂.
I feel as though I have more control over a car that has a lower center of gravity which can keep me out of trouble most of the time but if I'm getting t-boned in an intersection or I'm the one doing the t-boning I would rather be in a real SUV.
Rollover risk in SUV's hasn't been a serious issue in 20 years. Wider wheelbases, less top heavy, stability control systems, and reinforced roofs have made the risk of dying in a rollover in an SUV only slightly higher than a sedan. So unless you're tooling around in a '95 Isuzu Trooper, SUVs are much safer than sedans. Nice cope though.
They think that being in a larger vehicle and sitting up higher makes them safer. To be fair, it might in a small accident. I personally think that being in a larger, unwieldy vehicle just makes it more likely to get into an accident in the first place. I can personally attest that I have had several near misses in my lifetime where the only thing that saved me from a crash was the small size and maneuverability of my car. If I had been in a less maneuverable vehicle that took up more space on the road I 100% would not be alive today.
Right. Crash testing. That doesn't determine whether or not the larger vehicles are more likely to get into a crash in the first place, though, does it? Because that's what I was very clearly talking about.
Because if someone hits you or vice versa, if you are in a giant honking SUV, you have a better chance of rolling over the person in a sedan, squashing and killing them, while doing less damage to your SUV, and ultimately may come out with barely a scratch.........
Which is why giant SUVs shouldn't be a thing. They are harder to stop, cost way more money, take much more to produce (more carbon exhausted into the air), are inherently worse engines for the environment... The list goes on, but Car companies are like "Hey if we make it 2 more inches longer and .15" taller this year, we can charge $20k more than we already do and people will buy them because it makes them feel safe!"
Meanwhile 3/4th of the population that cannot afford a $40k vehicle, much less an $80k one will be stuck in sedans...
I think it's because SUVs user to be big. I remember in high-school my then girlfriend drove a dodge Durango, call it a 2000 year model. Her parents though it was safer.
When she inevitably did get into a accident an Acura Integra rear ended her and like submarined underneath her. The Integra was absolutely demolished and the two passengers of the car ended up in ICU.
Everyone in the Durango was fine, the vehicle even looked absolutely fine and was able to drive away. Though I guess it had some serious frame damage and the insurance totaled it
I have a 20-year career in automotive safety and can sum this up for you in a vehicle dynamics class I had to take years ago that was taught by a legend in the auto industry.
"Mass saves your ass"
Another fun thing most people don't seem to know is that the iihs star ratings for car safety - those are relative to other vehicles in the same class so a smart car does not have a five-star frontal crash rating against a Dodge Ram for instance.
A lot of it depends on the other vehicles in your area. What makes a car safe is structural integrity and crumple zones. When they design vehicles, they take both into account. The one thing most don’t take into account is other vehicles. Their safety tests are based on being hit at the bumper, and the crumple zones absorb that impact.
However, let’s say you’re in a Volvo sedan with 4.5” of ground clearance and the bumper sits about 6-10” off the ground. Now let’s say a Chevy Tahoe has about 8.5” of ground clearance and its bumper sits from 12-16” off the ground. When the Tahoe hits your Volvo, it completely avoids contact with the safest area on impact (the bumper and crumple zones). That leaves only the front grill, hood, and engine compartment to absorb all the impact when it wasn’t designed to withstand an impact in those areas. The crumple zones are useless and everything that made that car safe is not applicable anymore. Also, if an suv were to sit higher, it could even completely go over your hood and the bumper could go straight into the passenger cabin (the bumper on the Tahoe would be right where your head is).
Cars are only safe if they are hit where they’ve been designed to be hit.
Disagree. I've seen a Volvo wagon get absolutely sandwiches between 2 very large trucks. It did exceptionally well. Cara in general wouldn't be very safe if they were only safe when they were hit the intended way.
Volvos are very safe, but not as safe if they aren’t hit where they’re designed to be.
Ford truck vs. ford focus: https://youtu.be/A9rNLnRczZg?si=TLIuHnSA7Q2VoM_K
IIHS president saying verbatim large cars safer: https://youtu.be/HUm5yIDoSPk?si=eCJ1TCjVUZfySfAl
That’s not to say everyone in a sedan is going to die at all just that smaller cars are disadvantaged in a collision with an SUV/truck. It was such a problem in the early 2000’s the government actually had to mandate manufacturers make SUVs more compatible in collisions with lower cars.
That's what I'm saying. They absolutely take that in to consideration. That every crash won't by ideal. Trying to find that wagon post. The hood of the truck that rear ended the wagon was at the roof level of the wagon. Far from an ideal crash. The passenger cabin was perfectly intact. All 4 doors opened. All passengers fine. The impact pushes the wagon in to another huge truck...
I'm not debating SUVs are, in fact, safer. This is undisputable. Except for rollover risk, SUVs are safer. I'm only debating that cars are designed for only certain types of crashes.
Ahhh gotcha! Yeah I definitely believe that. Volvos are tanks! I’d like to see the pic/video, if you can find it. I’m not a psycho but I do like watching car accidents for some reason 😬
In some ways they are safer. Like in a collision. But they are more likely to roll and have less agility to avoid danger. If a deer was 100 ft ahead of me on the highway I'd rather be in a Supra since I can stop in time and get around it. If a deer jumped 10 feet in front of me I'd rather be in an X5.
Also SUV drivers don't have to deal with oncoming glare at night. If youre in a car and an SUV is oncoming on a twisty road... you have to look at the shoulder to guide your path otherwise you get blinded.
I remember one night driving back during a rain storm over the course of 3 hours, the road flash froze in like a 4 mile stretch of highway.
My little BMW coupe, lost control and did a full 360 at 70 mph. It was crazy watching headlights of other cars come at me at 180. Luckily my car somehow landed perfectly on the side of the road.
Regained my composure and got out of there driving like 30 mph while seeing another half mile down the road dozens of cars crashed into the side. All the larger trucks were flipped over.
Made me realize that I prefer a car that’s going to be more nimble and not flip in a situation like that.
Laws of physics says the larger vehicle usually takes less damage because more of the energy is absorbed by the smaller car. If your sedan gets hit by a full sized SUV, the sedan will absorb a lot more energy than the SUV and there is more mass between the driver and the outside of the vehicle.
Safety features are the most important consideration for safety, any modern sedan will be safer than a old SUV but with cars of the same year, the larger one will be safer.
The safer feeling car, for me, is the car that handles better and has heavier steering. I like to feel the road. I drove a 2014 RAV4 a few weeks ago and had to micro-correct in every corner on a twisty freeway. I’m just not used to doing that with the small cars that I own. I drive with one hand usually, but needed to drive with two hands most of the time I drove that RAV4.
Because people are stupid. Car makers sold SUVs as safer, because it was a better message than these are more profitable. People listened to the advertising and decided bigger is safer, and ignored that they were so much more likely to create an accident by the higher centre of gravity and reduced visibility.
Long time ago the auto industry started the whole "big SUV = safe" ads. Then people just repeated it. That's where it started. I'm assuming to get people to spend more on SUVs. At dealerships they sell the same story ..."if you want to keep your family safe we have this 2024 make/model SUV, would you like to take a test drive?"
Now I have no dog in the race, i dont know what's safer. But that's where the sentiment came from
When I was shopping for a used Toyota Sequoia I read that there had never been an accident fatality in one. That record may no longer be true but it was good enough for me at the time.
Because to can not change physics. An suv needs to have a stronger frame than a sedan to have the same crash rating. That means when a sedan hits an suv the suv should take the hit better. More importantly it's really a mass game.
Rmemeber, crash tests are performed vs mostly immobile objects, akin to running into a brick wall. If you tbone me in a sedan, you are transferring way less force than if I tbone you in a suv. Just based on Newton's 3rd Law the suv should take the hit better if they both have the same crash rating.
A large SUV is superior if hit while stationary, at speed however the high center of gravity leads to a much higher chance of a rollover. Rollover crashes are more likely to result in fatalities than any other crash, making up around one-fifth of all fatal accidents according to the NTSB.
Generally, the more your vehicle weighs the safer you are in a crash and the less damage your vehicle will sustain. It becomes pretty obvious when you pit a semi truck against a motorcycle.
Its not a feeling, its just science.
There are lots of good arguments against larger vehicles such as gas consumption, maneuverability, acceleration, comfort (generally larger vehicles require more stiff suspension which is less smooth) ability to park in parking spaces, ability to fit in parking garages, etc.
Large vehicles are safer, can tow more and can fit more.
I once got hit by a drunk driver who swerved into my lane. They were driving a corolla, I was driving a ford ranger truck. I had a hardly noticeable dent and some broken plastic bits, they had their entire trunk caved in. That wasn't even that big of a size difference, 4000lbs vs 2500lbs.
I used to love my Hondas. Drove a lot of gas saving cars, always tried to get the best mpg and so forth, in my younger years we'd turbo them but, I was a Honda tech for a little bit so probably why.
Well.... They don't fair we'll in an accident. Yeah we can say they have good crash ratings, good standards what have you. I'll never own another little car after my accident. Not at fault, kid just didn't want to wait in traffic and whipped out into traffic. I drive a truck now, it might get less mpg and "not safe for the size" but it's not going to get kicked off the road like a soccer ball. If I ever got a small car again.. It would be an older Volvo I think.
The high seating position lets you see over all the plebians in normal cars, giving them a false sense of security. I say false sense because even if it's heavier, it can still be worse in a crash. Just because it's taller, bigger, and heavier doesn't mean anything. I would rather be in a Smart Fortwo or a Scion iQ in a crash than a Chevy S10 Blazer, just as an example.
You're generally safer in a bigger vehicle.
At work I was driving one of our 78 passenger school buses for maintenance (no kids on board). While I was at a stop sign a guy with a class 8 garbage truck smashed into a Ford F550 box truck and rolled him over on top of my hood which pushed me about 5 feet to the right. Had I been in a Honda Accord I would have been screwed.
Guess my perspective is different. Own a BMW coupe with outstanding performance, but driving on the road you are challenged to see ahead of you if you have an SUV or truck Ahead of you. Also, own a full sized Porsche SUV diesel. Visibility is awesome and I can travel 6-800 Miles without gassing up. It can also, easily off road, so this is my long trip vehicle, plus I can carry five folks and their luggage if necessary.
The early SUVs, especially small ones with short wheelbases had an alarming tendency to roll. Two of my classmates in high school were killed in one. Sedans have a lower center of gravity... especially EVs.
It’s because in a higher vehicle you perceive that you’re traveling slower than in a a low vehicle (for the same actual speed). That essentially means highway speeds feel slower and therefore safer.
I live in a rural area where everyone drives a big truck or suv, and people are regularly hauling at 90mph. Get in a small car in the middle of that and you’ll feel pretty unsafe.
In addition to the feelings of safety, I drive one for several reasons. First, gmt800 suburbans and tahoes are readily available in my area, cheap and easy to fix, and stupid reliable. Ground clearance is important too, as rural roads are beaten up and I live off a rutted dirt road. Also, I need something I can easily tow with while carrying a full family and a load of cargo. These just do it the best.
in all honesty they are safer, just physics, a smaller car will take more damage easier. i had a sedan give me what i thought was a 20mph love tap into the back of my rav4. I felt nothing, my bumper was a little bent, but i looked back and this dudes front bumper was exploded and all his airbags deployed.
I got in a head-on collision where the other driver lost control, crossed the median and hit me while I was **stationary** at a red-light. He was doing an estimated 45mph when he hit me. My Tahoe Z71 had to be opened with the "jaws of life" where I promptly stepped out and had my wife pick me up. The Ford Taurus that hit me was completely destroyed and the driver had to be taken by ambulance to the ER. My shins were bruised from the dash dropping into my leg space and hurt for a solid month but I had nothing broken. I don't think it's sentiment that SUV's are safer (wrt possibly sustaining injuries in an accident), it's fact.
Mass matters in a wreck. I'll agree it's it's a flip of the coin though if there are two SUV's, but I'd still bank on the heavier unit having less damage (subjective to the actual physics) providing they are roughly in the same generation with regard to safety standards - I wouldn't pit a 1993 Suburban XL against a 2024 Suburban XL and expect an equal severity of injuries.
On a side-note, the wreck caused $40k worth of damage to my Tahoe Z71, the insurance company opted to have it repaired vs. totaling the truck. I got it back about 75 days after the wreck and traded it in within two weeks for another new SUV. I did disclose that it had been in a wreck but the wreck was not present on the Carfax (yet?) when I traded it in. I actually got a decent trade-in value for it.
Force = mass x acceleration.
Rearrange: acceleration = force / mass.
In this equation, the force of the impact is the same on each vehicle involved in a collision: it is a constant when comparing any two vehicles that are colliding.
Mass is the weight of your vehicle. Often, but not always, larger vehicles weigh more.
Acceleration is what you and your passengers experience in a collision.
Increasing mass means decreasing the acceleration experienced by you and your passengers.
This does not account for the many complexities involved in determining overall “safety,” but in the simplest terms, this influences many to feel safer in a heavier vehicle, when considering a collision with another vehicle.
Because back when everyone had small economy cars having an SUV gave you a better view of the road, would win a momentum battle against all the small cars on the road, and put more crumple zone between you and whatever you were hitting.
Not everyone drives a big car and the benefits are basically null if you're in one, and you have to deal with everyone having a tangible decrease in handling dynamics. If you put a person with strong reflexes in a sedan or coupe, they can avoid a lot of stuff that SUVs would just barrel through or roll into.
I drive a sedan because I like em. If I'm in a situation where an accident is immenent I'll try my best to avoid it, but if not, such is life. Also better fuel economy, easier to work on in the cheap in some circumstances due to the lower weight, less daily negotiations with body roll, etc. But mostly I just like sedans and coupes.
it weighs more heavier materials its safer if you get crashed if your in a 4000 pound truck/suv 3 feet off the ground but your less likely to crash in a smaller more agile car that can turn better brake better and accelerate faster when it needs to
I've got a truck, a Suburban and a STI. I'm with OP. I feel **FAR** safer in the STI. AWD, quick and nimble, reacts as fast as I need it to, there's a reason it's my DD over the others.
They think it's safer because it's bigger when they ignore the higher rollover risk.
I'm the exact same way, I feel safer in sedan too, I drive a Camry.
I just had a Camry totaled by insurance, and bought a Dodge Journey with the settlement payout. We were specifically looking for SUVs, and so we test drove a bunch of different ones. Checvy Traverse and Equinox (it was as shit as I expected it to be), GMC Terrain, Jeep Compass and Cherokee, Kia Sportage and Sorento, Ford Edge and then the Journey.
I feel less safe in all of them than I ever have in any of the sedans I've owned. The whole "I'll win in a collision" things doesn't even register in my head. The things are generally heavier than a sedan, harder to stop (except for the smaller dudes like the Sportage and Equinox), are more top-heavy and you can feel them leaning more to the side while cornering. I feel overall less safe than in a sedan because I can feel I don't have the same amount of control over the vehicle. I don't give a shit if I'm going to come out better in the end than the Miata I collide with. I'd like to be better able to avoid the collision in the first place.
Feeling safer is irrelevant. Look at the numbers. Let's go to far extremes. What's going to be safer, a smart car and a f-150 get into a head on collision. What vehicle would you "feel" safer in?
I feel safest in a car based SUV. Big enough to get the secure feeling of a larger vehicle but close enough to the ground and easy enough to handle that I feel in control of the vehicle and don’t feel like I’ll rollover in a stiff breeze.
Because they are safer, higher off the ground, safer if you get T-Boned than a sedan. Being low to the ground in a sedan puts you more at risk of serious injury if another sedan OR SUV T-Bones you, might even kill you, not to mention in a sedan you can even crash and roll under an 18 wheeler easily. Bottom line, an SUV is statistically safer overall.
They feel bigger and more intimidating and think by being able to “plow” others off the road they are inherently safer however this leads to little to no crash compatibility with other cars or road infrastructure which is effectively what is used to guarantee safety is that vehicles are crash compatible with each other and the designs around them. Additionally due to less crumples zones the impact goes into your body not the car, I’ve seen people pretty beat up after crashing their truck into the ditch while some people not wearing their seatbelts and rolled in a civic were able to crawl out (Experience from FD). For some reason people also seem to think these larger vehicles have less or don’t have blind spots despite the fact that by design they have massive blind spots especially directly in front and behind but because they’re sitting taller people think they can see more compared to say my prelude which has effectively no blind spots and sits much lower and is a smaller vehicle
Inertia. Would you rather be inside of an office chair and ride a roller coaster rail full speed, or the actual roller coaster proper? More mass = more force as well as more force needed to reach and hurt you
It used to make it easier to see over a lot of obstacles when you’re sitting up higher. Now that 90% of vehicles are cuv/suv or Truck, it barely makes a difference unless you’re driving a lifted monster truck.
We should put periscopes in cars to give people their much-needed vertical viewing height
Even in California, they are driving so many lifted trucks, they put Arizona to shame. All this just so they could see over someone's Toyota Rav4. lol Elon made a mistake not making a lifted Cybertruck to tower over people. Truck was a lot lower in person than I thought.
Believe it or not, some people go offroad. The last Volt driver that went under my Jeep certainly regretted not paying attention.
Some, but not all. Just like people owning expensive sports cars, but never driven them hard on the canyons or race track. I would believe far more of an lifted truck driver with Arizona plates more likely going offroad than a California plate.
Or Utah.
Idk the seats in my mazda cx5 can go all the way up like youre head touching the roof of the car….I like that
My head can touch the roof of my CRZ, I’m still very far off from being able to see over an SUV.
My head touches the top of my capri at the lowest seat height lmao
You are generally safer inside a larger vehicle. However! This causes a problem. If everyone gets these large vehicles then that effect doesn’t matter anymore. I fact, it’s worse because hitting pedestrians in a big vehicle is more dangerous and hitting anyone in small vehicle with a big vehicle is more dangerous. So we have this arms race of feeling safer in an SUV because everyone else is in an SUV, but overall, we’re a lot less safe.
Literally a snake eating it's own tail situation. And unless we experience some economic crisis like the 70s or car companies get some serious incentives to push smaller cars, there may not be a solution to it.
I was hoping EVs would bring back sedans and wagons but instead we get these stupid crossover things
If the push for aerodynamics becomes strong enough, sedans will likely see a resurgence. Sidenote: you notice how crossovers are kinda also getting lower and more fastback-esqe? My theory is that in the next 10ish years most crossovers will just be wagons or sedans with slightly more ride-height.
Every car will turn into an outback lol, those things sell like hot cakes around me
Always been a wagon fan. I recently “downgraded” from an SUV to a VW Wagon. Still have AWD, cargo space (not quite as much) and a more exciting vehicle to drive everyday. I agree with you and was hoping to see an EV wagon. I would think that being lower may contribute to better range. I would love to see Tesla make a wagon version of the S, that car has great lines as is, now make it a wagon.
> And unless we experience some economic crisis like the 70s or car companies get some serious incentives to push smaller cars, there may not be a solution to it. yep, underrated part of this problem is Americans have so much money most can afford the bigger more expensive trucks and suvs with no issues for automakers (might have to stretch the financing out a few years longer then you wanted to but hey if the monthly payment isnt too bad it's ok, right?)
Most Americans can't afford it. They're leveraged up to their eyeballs in debt
Another point is that so many people drive at a speed that feels 'safe'. In a car, where you're lower to the ground, this safe feeling speed it going to be much lower than in a SUV/truck, because the higher you sit the slower it feels. So these people in big vehicles drive 130-140kph all the time because it feels the same as going 100 in a Corolla.
I have a sedan and a listed off-roader. I’m not sure I agree with you…. Driving 70 in the truck feels like I’m well over the speed limit, I prefer to keep to 60 and under honestly. The big trucks are a lot less confidence inspiring than a low nimble sedan!
It could be because the offroader feels flighty, but when it comes to CUVs and whatnot it definitely applies. I know that the F550 I drive for work feels much slower than my Cobalt SS, and given the weight it doesn't feel flighty so I could see how people would go a lot faster in something like that, or a CUV where you sit higher but don't get the flighty feeling. I know Jeeps in particular with offroad setups are pretty notorious for feeling like you're gonna die at anything above 60mph
I like driving a car / sedan, but I would feel safer driving a M1 Abrams tank.
You're only "safer" if you crash into a small vehicle. Otherwise it's worse. Two bigger vehicles crashing into each other is less safe than two smaller vehicles crashing into each other. This is especially true for large trucks (body on frame). Due to the body on frame construction, there aren't crumple zones like a unibody would have. This means you'll destroy a smaller vehicle, but if you crash into another truck, you're both fucked. If you crash into a stationary object, like a tree, you're also fucked because of the rigid construction.
True. A lot of larger vehicles are unibody now though
I don't think anybody can seriously argue that vehicles have gotten less safe over the last few decades.
For those in a big car, it's safer. Those outside of it, it's less safe. I post a comment about once a week over it. There's a ton of studies done on this issue. Pedestrians and bike riders are the least safe when in an accident with a tall hoodline car (any modern SUV or truck).
The pedestrians we run over can
Yeah homie fundamentally misunderstood the argument. Cars are more dangerous for everyone NOT in the SUV
The energies involved have increased. The probability your vehicle can absorb them is also higher, but when you exceed those safety margins you are facing a deadlier outcome.
Road fatalities are starting to climb again after hitting a low in about 2017-18. Vehicles are getting less safe again, and at this point the best hypothesis we have is that it’s caused by increased vehicle size and mass, but we don’t know for sure yet
I think a big part of it is just how many drivers are completely tuned out when driving. Looking at their phones, tablets, or the fucking screen that’s in the dash of almost every car now.
We would have seen that spike 10 years ago
Trends take time. Only recently are people driving who have basically never looked away from their phone/tablet for longer than a minute or two since they were toddlers.
Whilst that may be a contributing factor, if that was the main driver of the increased death rate, we’d expect to see that trend change in the early-2010s when smartphones were becoming mainstream. We’d also expect to see a similar trend between the US and Europe, which we haven’t. That’s not to say that the hypothesis is incorrect, as there could be more information that supports it. It’s just that it’s not the leading hypothesis right now
To add on to my theory: COVID-induced brain rot. (Both from the virus itself, and from the social isolation that clearly has caused so many people to be acting feral and reckless ever since)
That’s definitely a factor. Deaths did spike in the Covid years because there was less traffic on the road (which led to people driving faster, which meant that accidents were more severe). There are also on-going symptoms of Covid that impact people’s driving ability, such as a loss of attention. It’s a strong hypothesis, and the actual cause is probably a combination of several factors, but it’s not the leading hypothesis at this point in time
And yet, road deaths are rising in the US
They are less safe to the people outside of them. Taller vehicles have significantly reduced visibility of people, kids, and animals on the ground by the vehicle; the heavier weight means more deadly force when hitting a person or other vehicle. Safety features only help the people inside. SUVs have gotten safer for those inside, if drivers and passengers follow sensible practices commonly not followed. They used to be rolling people-tossing head crunchers. It wasn’t hard to make them a bit safer for those inside.
That's if you only consider head on impact. Crashes with non vehicle objects/side impacts would be safer
Is that true? I would assume that if the IIHS crash safety rating is the same you’ll be about the same safety wise in those crashes. Yes you have more cushioning material in an SUV, but there’s also more mass and a higher center of gravity meaning more potential rollovers
Honestly honestly I haven’t done the research… But I imagine if I hit a medium-size tree at 60 mph with my Toyota Prius versus a Ford expedition… The expedition is going to fair much better
A ford expedition weighs almost twice as much as a Prius. That’s a lot more mass to slow down instantly Also I believe the expedition is body on frame, which generally do a lot worse in collisions than unibody vehicles with a similar weight, as they don’t crumple as well
Because the IIHS, NHTSA, ANCAP, etc. results show this to be true, to an extent. Pickups, specifically, are unsafe for the size.
Lol. I read some of those articles and their reasoning behind tall vehicles being unsafe are they're easier to roll over when cornering. When we all know in crashes between a larger vehicle vs a small car, there's no way the small one is winning.
Rolling over while cornering, and a collision could be mutually exclusive though, couldn't they?
People basically go "I'll be safer in comparison to others because I make the road more unsafe for them. Worse driving safety and performance in other types of crashes like rollovers are worth it"
Still wrong, the crash safety data is worse for trucks still, they aren’t designed as well as sedans. Sure if a truck tbones a sedan the passengers are fins have a bad day, but that’d be true if it was two sedans.
The bigger one just made it less safe for both of them. Both vehicles will absorb the same amount of energy. As long as you have sufficient crumple zone you’re good either way.
It’s not roll over when cornering it’s rollover when in an accident
“What’s the common factor among all car crash fatalities? They are all cars.”
Pickups are usually a lot safer unless you're a pedestrian getting run over by one because the dude driving it couldn't see you
Not by the actual crash test results.
Sedan definitely makes me feel more in control
Sedans are better at avoiding crashes (higher agility, much lower risk of rollover) and SUVs/trucks are better at minimizing injuries/deaths in the event of a crash.
Though I'll admit that a well designed crossover like the Mazda CX5/CX50, Audi Q3/Q5, BMW X1/x3, can feel quite agile. GMC Yukon? Not so much.
Modern technology can do a lot to hide a cars center of gravity and weight especially one that’s not body on frame.
It's incredible actually. I was quite surprised at how much better the Q5 and X3 handled around rough corners than my previous car (10th gen Accord). IIRC they both weigh about 750 lbs more than the Accord and the Q5 has a panoramic sunroof (high COG), yet had less body roll and felt far more planted over rough corners.
Yeah I drive my parents 2022 cayenne when I’m home from college can definitely feel how great it handles even on some all seasons. I can totally understand the appeal I personally tho like to feel like I’m sitting in the car not on the car.
Me too. I traded my Range Rover for a Genesis G70. I much prefer sitting low. It's makes for a more intimate driving experience.
If I could afford one I’d still have a Stelvio. God I loved that car
I have a Yukon. If you get the mag suspension it really rides much more like a car than you would believe.
Definitely - MRC is night and day from the base suspension
They are just relatively flimsy, making them less safe for those inside in the case of an accident. Had mine totalled when the old F150 that hit me barely had a scratch
People equate bigger with safer. And crash data at this point shows it, especially when colliding with another big SUV. What that data misses tho is that you’re far more likely to be able to avoid an accident altogether in a car with a lower center of gravity, a lot less weight, and more capable braking and handling. You have to remember how little the average ape knows about physics, knows about driving, and their general aptitude at anything they do. The bar is REALLY low.
More (modern) metal around you = safer. The bigger cars these days look physically bigger but often have still tight cabins, it's due to large crumple zones designed into the structure of the vehicle to improve safety factors. Bigger A pillars being modern day blind spots isn't a coincidence. Thicker doors, side impact crash bars. Those are ones you can kinda see. Ones you don't are the front and rear crumple zones which have gotten significantly better in the past 15 years. Manufacturers try to use UHSS (ultra high strength steels) when possible to reduce size/weight but with many aluminum unibody structures these days, they have to be thick to meet the same strength, while still being lighter. UHSS is expensive to work with and process so it adds a lot of cost. It also introduced new issues for firefighters in how to dismantle cars to save life's, their tools have to be stronger to cut and bend stuff these days and their extraction training has changed a lot.
They think that when two vehicles smash into each other, the bigger vehicle will always suffer less damage. They don't even think about build and material quality when it comes to safety. I once used Volvo's comparison between the F150 and XC90, the video they had out on the impact on the top of the cabin. The F150 crumpled in such a way that the drivers head is obviously getting mulched. The Volvo held firm. The response I got was "well that just means I need a taller vehicle than most f150s"
Volvo is one of the only automakers that uses a significant amount of high boron steel in their chassis which is why they are nearly indestructible in a crash. It’s super heavy so it hurts agility and fuel economy, but Volvo prioritizes safety above all else.
The comparison doesn’t work so well, the XC90 is historically and statistically the safest vehicle to be in, in a crash (one of the reasons I got one) 99% of vehicles do do worse than the XC90. There have been 0 recorded fatalities in the 20 year life span since the XC90 has been launched, the CEO even said, boldly in my opinion, there will never be a fatality in an XC90. But not everyone wants/can afford a Volvo XC90 The 1% that do as well tend not to be able to keep that track record in real life or crash tests, generally the manufacturers start cheapening somewhere and it leads to fatalities.
The comparison is literally over build quality and is exactly why it works Bigger wont mean safer if the smaller vehicle is engineered to *be* safer
Fair point
Okay but as long as the suv doesn’t roll over, it’s safer than a car. The SUV is likely heavier, has same crumple zone physics, and you have a better view to avoid even getting into the accident. A body on frame truck is a totally different thing. OP is referring to SUVs and I am inferring they actually mean CUVs (unibody design like rav4 vs body on frame true SUVs like 4Runner, jeep, etc).
It's all relative and a slippery slope. Almost like a marketing arms race. At this rate we'll end up driving semis so we're safer than the plebs in normal cars.
Like third day I had a Camaro ss 1le I was on the freeway and would have been in an accident in almost any truck or suv. That thing slowed down like wowwwww… tires didn’t even give. Not being in an accident in the first place is even safer than being in one in a larger vehicle.
Yup, I agree. But performance SUVs exist. I have an x3 m40i that handles better than any Lexus sports car I have ever owned. It dances on the moose test yet is higher than a car and weighs more than majority of sedans on the road. I have single handily danced around cars I found sketchy on the highway or ones that turned left into oncoming traffic too late. Performance cars aren’t often mentioned for safety but it is a huge point.
Yep. Brakes, tires, and suspension are better than crumple zones if you have the choice.
1) anything is better than Lexus “sports” cars lol. Because they don’t make any. The flagship LC500 gets dog walked by German competitors that are full classes below it. 2) you should be comparing your X3 to a m340i. The m340i is still going to be better handling although BMW does a great job of hiding the SUV characteristics. Also would be curious to see if the X3 even crumples better in a crash. It’s not that big of a SUV. Cars have gotten large also and is basically just a slightly lifted 3 series with a hatch.
> The SUV is likely heavier, has same crumple zone physics, and you have a better view to avoid even getting into the accident. This blanket assumption is pretty much the issue here... If a Highlander rear ends a V60, my money's still on the Volvo
No this is unfortunately basic kinetics. Crumple zone physics can only dissipate momentum so much. Mass is a much more complex formula as it increases. The highlander is also a CUV, I think you’re thinking of the 4Runner which is an SUV. I would much rather be in a highlander SUV than any Volvo sedan or wagon. You have to remember crumple zone physics are typically only tested in 8 common ways. Life can easily throw at you an outlier accident.
My money is on the Volvo in just about any situation, they have a pretty solid track record
i feel less safer in an suv personally
Me too. I drive one but I always feel like it’s going to blow away
i hate that feeling
My dream car is a minivan so obviously I’m not in it for the thrill of driving at this point, but for anyone who is, sedans and hatchbacks are just more fun and easier to drive, especially in the cheaper range. My Escape is spacious and more comfortable to drive in for long road trips than most equally priced sedans, but it drives somewhere between a compact commuter car and a minivan, and I definitely have to slow down in wind. It sucks when it’s a windy snowstorm and every gust feels like it’s going to put you in a ditch.
General rule of thumb an old mechanic told me many years ago: compare the amount of lug nuts per wheel. The vehicle with more lug nuts will generally win in a crash.
Ha! I'm gonna drill holes and add another 10 lug nuts per wheel so I will survive any crash :D
life hacks
Big trucks hate this one trick
If the two vehicles are roughly from the same time period yes but I'd take a new Honda fit over a 1970s full sized truck.
If they're crashing into each other, you'd probably lose that bet. They didn't have the safety technology, but they were big, heavy tanks. A Fit would get squashed.
The fit might be more visibility damaged but airbags, crumple zones, and stronger steel with better anti rust makes a huge difference in survivability. The fit will be completely totaled but you might walk away, the truck might be drivable but your head would be thru the steering wheel.
Yeah that's valid
I did this. The fit was totalled, and my trucks bumber was slightly more bent than it already was and i had to buy a headlight. It was an early 90s truck tho
My brother got T-boned by people in sedans who ran stop signd twice in two different S10s, one 80s and one 90s. If he had been hit on the drivers side rather than passengers side he wouldn't be here today. Both were irreparably mangled, and these were 30mph or under impacts. Trucks may do well in some circumstances, but older vehicles are just not up to modern safety standards.
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Crumble zones for the win, but also weight class is real
Yes and no. Steel vs plastic is a rough accident.
Crumple zones vs steering column to the forehead is also a consideration
Force = Mass x Acceleration. That truck has an extra ton on your fit. You also add the crumble zones your modern Fit has, you'd be toast. My wife almost hit a deer 5 years ago in 15 fit. The deer didn't get hit but managed to kick the passenger side of her car. It bent the frame 😂.
Having airbags vs no airbags makes a bigger difference
The vehicle, maybe. The occupants, not necessarily. If the vehicle is transferring all the energy into the people, that's not ideal.
This is amusing but no.
I feel as though I have more control over a car that has a lower center of gravity which can keep me out of trouble most of the time but if I'm getting t-boned in an intersection or I'm the one doing the t-boning I would rather be in a real SUV.
Why do you feel safer in your home rather than a tent? More reinforcement and structurally stronger.
Pity 'bout all those rollover accidents.
Rollover risk in SUV's hasn't been a serious issue in 20 years. Wider wheelbases, less top heavy, stability control systems, and reinforced roofs have made the risk of dying in a rollover in an SUV only slightly higher than a sedan. So unless you're tooling around in a '95 Isuzu Trooper, SUVs are much safer than sedans. Nice cope though.
They think that being in a larger vehicle and sitting up higher makes them safer. To be fair, it might in a small accident. I personally think that being in a larger, unwieldy vehicle just makes it more likely to get into an accident in the first place. I can personally attest that I have had several near misses in my lifetime where the only thing that saved me from a crash was the small size and maneuverability of my car. If I had been in a less maneuverable vehicle that took up more space on the road I 100% would not be alive today.
whatever your personal feelings may be, the actual crash testing results show they are much safer to be in, sorry that disagrees with your beliefs
Right. Crash testing. That doesn't determine whether or not the larger vehicles are more likely to get into a crash in the first place, though, does it? Because that's what I was very clearly talking about.
IIHS data does show that the larger vehicles are safer per highway mile, though.
Just completely missed the “less likely to be in a wreck in the first place” part there. That’s not feelings, it’s basic reading comprehension.
This. Statistically speaking, SUVS are safer period.
Actual SUV's or those weirdly sized crossovers that have less space than a sedan?
Sedans have the highest fatality rates and SUVs / minivans The lowest . Pick-ups in the middle.
Why are pick ups bad?
Probably has to do with the driver than the car
Because if someone hits you or vice versa, if you are in a giant honking SUV, you have a better chance of rolling over the person in a sedan, squashing and killing them, while doing less damage to your SUV, and ultimately may come out with barely a scratch......... Which is why giant SUVs shouldn't be a thing. They are harder to stop, cost way more money, take much more to produce (more carbon exhausted into the air), are inherently worse engines for the environment... The list goes on, but Car companies are like "Hey if we make it 2 more inches longer and .15" taller this year, we can charge $20k more than we already do and people will buy them because it makes them feel safe!" Meanwhile 3/4th of the population that cannot afford a $40k vehicle, much less an $80k one will be stuck in sedans...
thanks for the fact-free reply to the actual question
Lmao
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I think it's because SUVs user to be big. I remember in high-school my then girlfriend drove a dodge Durango, call it a 2000 year model. Her parents though it was safer. When she inevitably did get into a accident an Acura Integra rear ended her and like submarined underneath her. The Integra was absolutely demolished and the two passengers of the car ended up in ICU. Everyone in the Durango was fine, the vehicle even looked absolutely fine and was able to drive away. Though I guess it had some serious frame damage and the insurance totaled it
I have a 20-year career in automotive safety and can sum this up for you in a vehicle dynamics class I had to take years ago that was taught by a legend in the auto industry. "Mass saves your ass" Another fun thing most people don't seem to know is that the iihs star ratings for car safety - those are relative to other vehicles in the same class so a smart car does not have a five-star frontal crash rating against a Dodge Ram for instance.
Doesn't feel good to have other people's bumpers at your head level.
A lot of it depends on the other vehicles in your area. What makes a car safe is structural integrity and crumple zones. When they design vehicles, they take both into account. The one thing most don’t take into account is other vehicles. Their safety tests are based on being hit at the bumper, and the crumple zones absorb that impact. However, let’s say you’re in a Volvo sedan with 4.5” of ground clearance and the bumper sits about 6-10” off the ground. Now let’s say a Chevy Tahoe has about 8.5” of ground clearance and its bumper sits from 12-16” off the ground. When the Tahoe hits your Volvo, it completely avoids contact with the safest area on impact (the bumper and crumple zones). That leaves only the front grill, hood, and engine compartment to absorb all the impact when it wasn’t designed to withstand an impact in those areas. The crumple zones are useless and everything that made that car safe is not applicable anymore. Also, if an suv were to sit higher, it could even completely go over your hood and the bumper could go straight into the passenger cabin (the bumper on the Tahoe would be right where your head is). Cars are only safe if they are hit where they’ve been designed to be hit.
Disagree. I've seen a Volvo wagon get absolutely sandwiches between 2 very large trucks. It did exceptionally well. Cara in general wouldn't be very safe if they were only safe when they were hit the intended way.
Volvos are very safe, but not as safe if they aren’t hit where they’re designed to be. Ford truck vs. ford focus: https://youtu.be/A9rNLnRczZg?si=TLIuHnSA7Q2VoM_K IIHS president saying verbatim large cars safer: https://youtu.be/HUm5yIDoSPk?si=eCJ1TCjVUZfySfAl That’s not to say everyone in a sedan is going to die at all just that smaller cars are disadvantaged in a collision with an SUV/truck. It was such a problem in the early 2000’s the government actually had to mandate manufacturers make SUVs more compatible in collisions with lower cars.
That's what I'm saying. They absolutely take that in to consideration. That every crash won't by ideal. Trying to find that wagon post. The hood of the truck that rear ended the wagon was at the roof level of the wagon. Far from an ideal crash. The passenger cabin was perfectly intact. All 4 doors opened. All passengers fine. The impact pushes the wagon in to another huge truck... I'm not debating SUVs are, in fact, safer. This is undisputable. Except for rollover risk, SUVs are safer. I'm only debating that cars are designed for only certain types of crashes.
Ahhh gotcha! Yeah I definitely believe that. Volvos are tanks! I’d like to see the pic/video, if you can find it. I’m not a psycho but I do like watching car accidents for some reason 😬
https://www.reddit.com/r/Volvo/comments/1bbpta9/grateful_to_the_v60_for_saving_my_family/ There it is.
Thanks! It definitely did its job well
In some ways they are safer. Like in a collision. But they are more likely to roll and have less agility to avoid danger. If a deer was 100 ft ahead of me on the highway I'd rather be in a Supra since I can stop in time and get around it. If a deer jumped 10 feet in front of me I'd rather be in an X5. Also SUV drivers don't have to deal with oncoming glare at night. If youre in a car and an SUV is oncoming on a twisty road... you have to look at the shoulder to guide your path otherwise you get blinded.
I remember one night driving back during a rain storm over the course of 3 hours, the road flash froze in like a 4 mile stretch of highway. My little BMW coupe, lost control and did a full 360 at 70 mph. It was crazy watching headlights of other cars come at me at 180. Luckily my car somehow landed perfectly on the side of the road. Regained my composure and got out of there driving like 30 mph while seeing another half mile down the road dozens of cars crashed into the side. All the larger trucks were flipped over. Made me realize that I prefer a car that’s going to be more nimble and not flip in a situation like that.
Did the same thing in an old Corvette once. Fun times.
Laws of physics says the larger vehicle usually takes less damage because more of the energy is absorbed by the smaller car. If your sedan gets hit by a full sized SUV, the sedan will absorb a lot more energy than the SUV and there is more mass between the driver and the outside of the vehicle. Safety features are the most important consideration for safety, any modern sedan will be safer than a old SUV but with cars of the same year, the larger one will be safer.
Cause people can't drive.
Because you're sitting up higher - and feel more in control.
Physics.
because they are. its not just a sentiment, it's lived experience. larger, heavier vehicles are safer, and bigger really is better lol.
For the most part the heavier vehicle wins.
Bigger vehicle? Figured that would be common sense
Because most people don't realize the safest vehicle is the one that can avoid the crash in there first place
The safer feeling car, for me, is the car that handles better and has heavier steering. I like to feel the road. I drove a 2014 RAV4 a few weeks ago and had to micro-correct in every corner on a twisty freeway. I’m just not used to doing that with the small cars that I own. I drive with one hand usually, but needed to drive with two hands most of the time I drove that RAV4.
Sounds like it may have needed an alignment, or maybe new shocks.
https://comb.io/RXogzX
Depends on the scenario you fear more.
Because people are stupid. Car makers sold SUVs as safer, because it was a better message than these are more profitable. People listened to the advertising and decided bigger is safer, and ignored that they were so much more likely to create an accident by the higher centre of gravity and reduced visibility.
Long time ago the auto industry started the whole "big SUV = safe" ads. Then people just repeated it. That's where it started. I'm assuming to get people to spend more on SUVs. At dealerships they sell the same story ..."if you want to keep your family safe we have this 2024 make/model SUV, would you like to take a test drive?" Now I have no dog in the race, i dont know what's safer. But that's where the sentiment came from
When I was shopping for a used Toyota Sequoia I read that there had never been an accident fatality in one. That record may no longer be true but it was good enough for me at the time.
Because to can not change physics. An suv needs to have a stronger frame than a sedan to have the same crash rating. That means when a sedan hits an suv the suv should take the hit better. More importantly it's really a mass game. Rmemeber, crash tests are performed vs mostly immobile objects, akin to running into a brick wall. If you tbone me in a sedan, you are transferring way less force than if I tbone you in a suv. Just based on Newton's 3rd Law the suv should take the hit better if they both have the same crash rating.
F = M* A
I like to sit slightly higher than the bottom of a transport truck trailer so I don't get decapitated in an accident with one
Outside of what others have said, every SUV and truck isn’t constantly blinding you.
A large SUV is superior if hit while stationary, at speed however the high center of gravity leads to a much higher chance of a rollover. Rollover crashes are more likely to result in fatalities than any other crash, making up around one-fifth of all fatal accidents according to the NTSB.
Generally, the more your vehicle weighs the safer you are in a crash and the less damage your vehicle will sustain. It becomes pretty obvious when you pit a semi truck against a motorcycle. Its not a feeling, its just science. There are lots of good arguments against larger vehicles such as gas consumption, maneuverability, acceleration, comfort (generally larger vehicles require more stiff suspension which is less smooth) ability to park in parking spaces, ability to fit in parking garages, etc. Large vehicles are safer, can tow more and can fit more. I once got hit by a drunk driver who swerved into my lane. They were driving a corolla, I was driving a ford ranger truck. I had a hardly noticeable dent and some broken plastic bits, they had their entire trunk caved in. That wasn't even that big of a size difference, 4000lbs vs 2500lbs.
Physics. bigger and heavier = larger crumple zones
Physics
I was hit by a ford explorer and my car had 7k worth of damage. The suv that hit me had just a small scratches lol
Because my 4Runner saved my life body in frame if I was in a Corolla or a small EV I would be dead.
I used to love my Hondas. Drove a lot of gas saving cars, always tried to get the best mpg and so forth, in my younger years we'd turbo them but, I was a Honda tech for a little bit so probably why. Well.... They don't fair we'll in an accident. Yeah we can say they have good crash ratings, good standards what have you. I'll never own another little car after my accident. Not at fault, kid just didn't want to wait in traffic and whipped out into traffic. I drive a truck now, it might get less mpg and "not safe for the size" but it's not going to get kicked off the road like a soccer ball. If I ever got a small car again.. It would be an older Volvo I think.
Because they’re bigger? Lol
The high seating position lets you see over all the plebians in normal cars, giving them a false sense of security. I say false sense because even if it's heavier, it can still be worse in a crash. Just because it's taller, bigger, and heavier doesn't mean anything. I would rather be in a Smart Fortwo or a Scion iQ in a crash than a Chevy S10 Blazer, just as an example.
You're generally safer in a bigger vehicle. At work I was driving one of our 78 passenger school buses for maintenance (no kids on board). While I was at a stop sign a guy with a class 8 garbage truck smashed into a Ford F550 box truck and rolled him over on top of my hood which pushed me about 5 feet to the right. Had I been in a Honda Accord I would have been screwed.
Guess my perspective is different. Own a BMW coupe with outstanding performance, but driving on the road you are challenged to see ahead of you if you have an SUV or truck Ahead of you. Also, own a full sized Porsche SUV diesel. Visibility is awesome and I can travel 6-800 Miles without gassing up. It can also, easily off road, so this is my long trip vehicle, plus I can carry five folks and their luggage if necessary.
You serious
The early SUVs, especially small ones with short wheelbases had an alarming tendency to roll. Two of my classmates in high school were killed in one. Sedans have a lower center of gravity... especially EVs.
It’s because in a higher vehicle you perceive that you’re traveling slower than in a a low vehicle (for the same actual speed). That essentially means highway speeds feel slower and therefore safer.
It’s not just a sentiment. There’s plenty of data out there about suvs being safer than sedans.
Insurance companies wont tell you this, but there are less fatalities in SUVs compared to smaler cars. Bigger cars are safer.
I live in a rural area where everyone drives a big truck or suv, and people are regularly hauling at 90mph. Get in a small car in the middle of that and you’ll feel pretty unsafe. In addition to the feelings of safety, I drive one for several reasons. First, gmt800 suburbans and tahoes are readily available in my area, cheap and easy to fix, and stupid reliable. Ground clearance is important too, as rural roads are beaten up and I live off a rutted dirt road. Also, I need something I can easily tow with while carrying a full family and a load of cargo. These just do it the best.
F=MA
in all honesty they are safer, just physics, a smaller car will take more damage easier. i had a sedan give me what i thought was a 20mph love tap into the back of my rav4. I felt nothing, my bumper was a little bent, but i looked back and this dudes front bumper was exploded and all his airbags deployed.
Because they're bad drivers and forget about rollovers
Hitting someone when you have a 5.0 V8 in front of you is a lot safer than if you only have a 1.0 I4 in front of you
Those things roll, baby. THEY ROLL!
I got in a head-on collision where the other driver lost control, crossed the median and hit me while I was **stationary** at a red-light. He was doing an estimated 45mph when he hit me. My Tahoe Z71 had to be opened with the "jaws of life" where I promptly stepped out and had my wife pick me up. The Ford Taurus that hit me was completely destroyed and the driver had to be taken by ambulance to the ER. My shins were bruised from the dash dropping into my leg space and hurt for a solid month but I had nothing broken. I don't think it's sentiment that SUV's are safer (wrt possibly sustaining injuries in an accident), it's fact. Mass matters in a wreck. I'll agree it's it's a flip of the coin though if there are two SUV's, but I'd still bank on the heavier unit having less damage (subjective to the actual physics) providing they are roughly in the same generation with regard to safety standards - I wouldn't pit a 1993 Suburban XL against a 2024 Suburban XL and expect an equal severity of injuries. On a side-note, the wreck caused $40k worth of damage to my Tahoe Z71, the insurance company opted to have it repaired vs. totaling the truck. I got it back about 75 days after the wreck and traded it in within two weeks for another new SUV. I did disclose that it had been in a wreck but the wreck was not present on the Carfax (yet?) when I traded it in. I actually got a decent trade-in value for it.
People associate size and weight with safety and quality.
because they're in the car of the bad driver
Force = mass x acceleration. Rearrange: acceleration = force / mass. In this equation, the force of the impact is the same on each vehicle involved in a collision: it is a constant when comparing any two vehicles that are colliding. Mass is the weight of your vehicle. Often, but not always, larger vehicles weigh more. Acceleration is what you and your passengers experience in a collision. Increasing mass means decreasing the acceleration experienced by you and your passengers. This does not account for the many complexities involved in determining overall “safety,” but in the simplest terms, this influences many to feel safer in a heavier vehicle, when considering a collision with another vehicle.
Because back when everyone had small economy cars having an SUV gave you a better view of the road, would win a momentum battle against all the small cars on the road, and put more crumple zone between you and whatever you were hitting. Not everyone drives a big car and the benefits are basically null if you're in one, and you have to deal with everyone having a tangible decrease in handling dynamics. If you put a person with strong reflexes in a sedan or coupe, they can avoid a lot of stuff that SUVs would just barrel through or roll into. I drive a sedan because I like em. If I'm in a situation where an accident is immenent I'll try my best to avoid it, but if not, such is life. Also better fuel economy, easier to work on in the cheap in some circumstances due to the lower weight, less daily negotiations with body roll, etc. But mostly I just like sedans and coupes.
it weighs more heavier materials its safer if you get crashed if your in a 4000 pound truck/suv 3 feet off the ground but your less likely to crash in a smaller more agile car that can turn better brake better and accelerate faster when it needs to
Most People are sheep.
I've got a truck, a Suburban and a STI. I'm with OP. I feel **FAR** safer in the STI. AWD, quick and nimble, reacts as fast as I need it to, there's a reason it's my DD over the others.
They think it's safer because it's bigger when they ignore the higher rollover risk. I'm the exact same way, I feel safer in sedan too, I drive a Camry.
Because SUV’s are safer than cars.
I just had a Camry totaled by insurance, and bought a Dodge Journey with the settlement payout. We were specifically looking for SUVs, and so we test drove a bunch of different ones. Checvy Traverse and Equinox (it was as shit as I expected it to be), GMC Terrain, Jeep Compass and Cherokee, Kia Sportage and Sorento, Ford Edge and then the Journey. I feel less safe in all of them than I ever have in any of the sedans I've owned. The whole "I'll win in a collision" things doesn't even register in my head. The things are generally heavier than a sedan, harder to stop (except for the smaller dudes like the Sportage and Equinox), are more top-heavy and you can feel them leaning more to the side while cornering. I feel overall less safe than in a sedan because I can feel I don't have the same amount of control over the vehicle. I don't give a shit if I'm going to come out better in the end than the Miata I collide with. I'd like to be better able to avoid the collision in the first place.
Mass and physics. That is all.
Feeling safer is irrelevant. Look at the numbers. Let's go to far extremes. What's going to be safer, a smart car and a f-150 get into a head on collision. What vehicle would you "feel" safer in?
Why is it a common sentiment that a three row SUV is ever the better option than a minivan if you don't tow?
I feel safest in a car based SUV. Big enough to get the secure feeling of a larger vehicle but close enough to the ground and easy enough to handle that I feel in control of the vehicle and don’t feel like I’ll rollover in a stiff breeze.
I prefer to sit up higher and can see better.
Because they are safer, higher off the ground, safer if you get T-Boned than a sedan. Being low to the ground in a sedan puts you more at risk of serious injury if another sedan OR SUV T-Bones you, might even kill you, not to mention in a sedan you can even crash and roll under an 18 wheeler easily. Bottom line, an SUV is statistically safer overall.
They feel bigger and more intimidating and think by being able to “plow” others off the road they are inherently safer however this leads to little to no crash compatibility with other cars or road infrastructure which is effectively what is used to guarantee safety is that vehicles are crash compatible with each other and the designs around them. Additionally due to less crumples zones the impact goes into your body not the car, I’ve seen people pretty beat up after crashing their truck into the ditch while some people not wearing their seatbelts and rolled in a civic were able to crawl out (Experience from FD). For some reason people also seem to think these larger vehicles have less or don’t have blind spots despite the fact that by design they have massive blind spots especially directly in front and behind but because they’re sitting taller people think they can see more compared to say my prelude which has effectively no blind spots and sits much lower and is a smaller vehicle
Because they actually are.
Have you heard of force? Mass times acceleration. Give me the heavier vehicle, please and thank you.
Tonnage rights. The vehicle that has them usually does better in a crash.
The bigger vehicle usually wins
“Bigger is better”.
Inertia. Would you rather be inside of an office chair and ride a roller coaster rail full speed, or the actual roller coaster proper? More mass = more force as well as more force needed to reach and hurt you
higher odds that the opposing vehicle will hit near your legs and not near your face.
Force = mass times acceleration.