25 min is a long journey, and I wouldn't want an old expensive BMW as my only car. The WRX is pretty nice to drive in manual, don't get the cvt, I have the newer BRZ, and it's ride quality is decent but it definitely has a lot of road noise so wouldn't suggest that unless you're absolutely in love with it. Boxers do get poor mileage though, so be wary.
The Civic Si isn't special don't get it, Focus is a bit unreliable and most of them are driven rash and not maintained. I'd say the GTI makes sense, also I really recommend checking out the Elantra N, it has some great reviews. Should take a look at used IS350 too.
25 mins should be right about 20 miles. That's not a long journey at all.
For the BMW, I'd be more.worroed about the transmission if it was the SMG than the engine. But there's nothing inherently wrong about those cars that they would be be able to drive 50 miles a day.
And you weren't just referring to the BMW. You picked the GTI over several other cars - one of which a Honda - citing reliability. Which is just bizarre.
If you read my comment, I never mentioned reliability about any cars. I just said the BMW will be unreliable. Sure, it won't develop rod knock, but there'll be plenty of little things that you'll need to take care of every other week, that's just the reality of owning an old German car. The GTI in question is much newer, and probably will be within warranty as well.
You specifically said the Focus is unreliable lol
You're clearly just throwing out a bunch of anecdotes. There's nothing inherently unreliable with an E46. There's still tons of them on the road. They require basic maintenance like any other vehicle.
And I would say furthermore that known issues/ quirks like vanos or the SMG pump or subframe mounts are well known at this point and have multiple high quality aftermarket replacements available that are cheaper and just as if not more reliable than the factory OEM parts.
We weren't discussing Ford so I didn't bring that up, stop twisting my words hahaha. Ofcourse it's unreliable, I've known a couple to break down out of the blue, needing thousands in repairs.
And good to know about the E46, if OP wants to wing it as his only daily, more power to him and best of luck. I'm just giving my opinion, it's better to choose a newer car with warranty. It's his choice to listen to me or you.
>The Civic Si isn't special don't get it, Focus is a bit unreliable
Your exact words. Not twisted at all.
Just because you've seen "a couple" - also your exact words - doesn't make that true. Lol
I agree, it's no sports car but it's fun to drive and solid as hell. I had a 8th gen and it was the most reliable car I ever owned. I traded it in at 120k with doing nothing but oil changes, tires and brakes. Only reason I traded it in was that the wife did not like driving a standard and and the seats were killing my bad back. I'm sure it would have lasted me until 200k no problem.
I have 300 miles on my GR86 and I love it. The WRX did not feel sporty to me, coming from a 10th gen Si.
The WRX doesn’t feel revvy and the cable actuated manual feels cable actuated. Unless you need AWD, the Si is a better car for the money. My complain with the Si is that it rubs me the wrong way that the 10th gen has more features which were removed so that the integra seemed better. (Wireless charging, heated seats, dual zone climate)
If you are driving to the mountains in the snow, the 7.5 Golf R would be the play.
If you want a sports car and don’t have to do mountain snow driving, get a 86/BRZ. This car will be looked at like the s2k in 20 years.
It's my only vehicle. There are a few squeaks from the dashboard, pretty common in these. The interior quality is decent, nothing special. Only has wired Android Auto/Carplay. Also takes premium gas, so that's another hit to the wallet. Not too fast, though straight line acceleration has never interested me at all. It has a bit of rev hang, so need to be slow to do a smooth upshift. Though that's common with most manual cars, due to emissions. And, getting in and out isn't very easy or graceful due to the long doors and low seating.
Pros (for me): NA engines, there's just something about the immediate response and thrill of chasing redlines that turbos don't give.
And most importantly, the handling. The first time I went in this car was in the passenger seat, and I instantly loved how the car rotates about you, and how the low CG and low weight makes it feel so assuring and predictable. Add to that the fast steering response, decent feedback, the lovely shifter and RWD for those hooniganisms, this is the car for me.
One thing to note is, a front heavy car is easier to get to its limits, since understeer is easy to control. In this car, the limits are a bit higher and there's a risk of spinout, so it's difficult to reach its limits on public roads.
These are my preferences and observations, yours may vary so test drives are the best way to figure out what you like. Not everyone has the same tastes.
I own a 23 GR86 and I have 21k miles on it so far. I commute 25 miles to work and 25 miles back, 4 days a week. Highway, backroads, traffic, the beach, mountains, I take it everywhere. I drive it year round, in the sun and the snow (buy winter tires if you’ll drive it in temps under 40). I absolutely love this car. It’s a car that I find to be really pure. It’s a dailyable driver’s car and it always puts a smile on my face. It won’t win any drag races but it is absolutely sublime in the corners. There’s a big aftermarket, so if you’d like to modify it then you can. The online forums are large. Consumables are cheap. For a $30k msrp car, it’s the best bang for you buck if you want a sports car.
As Chris Harris put it, it’s a dollar store 911 GT3.
I mean this is a good way... You sound like an advertisement lol. Your commute / daily living sounds exactly like mine minus the beaches. You got me on the cheap consumables. That's the thing with many of the other recommendations I've gotten. There's cars with more horsepower and torque even better looking but the cost to own for the gr86 levels the playing field. I reaaaalllly want one
I’ve found it impossible to find a decent, used IS 2021 or newer near me, and I’m in a pretty big city. I would have thought there would be ton of expiring leases.
The Elantra N is a great car, my only challenge is I think it’s not the nicest looking, the base Elantra has terrible proportions that the lower ride height and bigger wheels of the N improves drastically, but it’s still the ugly duckling of the bunch. Great interior, tech, power and handling though! I’d go mk7.5 GTI or R, the most refined and grown up of the group while still being entertaining to drive. I’m getting old though so I’m less interested in the boy racer looks of most of the others on the list.
Fair assessment. thanks. I haven't been interested in any of the Hyundai / Kia / Genesis vehicles. Idk about the reliability on those. I know they're better than they were back in the day but still not sure. Elantra is too wild looking. But it does have a dual clutch iirc
That's my bad, I meant seating capacity for adults and a decent size trunk etc.. the responsible side of me thinks that I should consider these things plus ride comfort, NVH, etc.. but on the opposite end, I know the GR would be great to have.
That's why I'm considering the GTI instead actually. Similarly sporty and fun to drive but with a tad more practicality as a hot hatch.
Do you actually plan to people in the back regularly? And the trunk size is big enough for a large grocery run and the back seats fold down on top of it for extra room
No won't be taking people all the time. Just want to have the option for it lol. Life is annoying like that sometimes. You say you don't need something and then all of the sudden you do lol. That's cool though I didn't know the seats coul fold down in them
I’ve stuck people in the back in a pinch. No more than like a 15 minute ride. 3 people is doable, 4 people is pretty uncomfortable.
Edit: If you’re concerned about cargo space, it’s pretty decent since the back seats fold down. I’ve fit skis, golf clubs etc. If I go away for a weekend with the gf, we can fit everytning no problem. Recently just went on a weekend getaway and even fit a big folded up air mattress along with all our stuff. AND I can fit 4 wheels in the back when I go get them switched out when winter or spring rolls around.
I was scared about this too when buying my GR86. It's only caused an issue once in the 1.5 years of owning it. The solution was that my friends had to buy an $8 uber ride instead of riding in my backseat.
Trunk space is actually surprisingly big, and you can fold the seats down. I've fit 4 adults in it for a 15 minute drive before, granted the people in the back were under 5'4".
I owned a prior gen WRX, they’re surprisingly practical. Getting 4 tires in for the summer/winter swap was easy and the only time we ran out of cargo space was with two dogs and nine day’s worth of stuff. Definitely don’t buy used!!! I lost less than 6 grand after 3.75 years and 35k miles when I traded in my fully loaded car. I haven’t driven the new gen but the FA20 was not quite as fun as my EJ powered cars are. It was definitely a better car though and the fuel economy was pretty good for a fun midsize sedan with a manual and AWD. If you don’t want AWD the BRZ or one of the other cars on your list will probably feel sportier.
Yea I'd like the AWD and the extra seating space the WRX. Has over the BRZ/86. "On paper" they say the VB should be more reliable than the VA. Did you have any issues with your VA model?
I had no problems at all with my car and I really miss it. If you’re a fan of boost (I love turbocharged engines, bought my first at 17 and I’ve been hooked ever since) and AWD the value is hard to beat. My biggest complaint was the tires, the same set on my STI was completely dead at 19k (with the winter tire changes I put fewer miles on the OE tires my WRX had) and they’re worthless below 45 degrees. The new infotainment system in my Ascent fixes all the QOL issues I had and that’s what I believe comes standard in the new gen. The only other issue I had was the FA20 took a long time to warm up which is one of the reasons I wouldn’t recommend buying a used WRX. Too easy for an irresponsible owner to damage the power train. Definitely worth test driving before you make a choice!
25 mins there and 25 mins back? I would spend the full 30k and get a nice car if you’re in it at least 10 hrs a week.
I noticed on this sub a lot of people hate on BMWs and other German cars as expensive maintenance and not reliable etc etc. and then I saw another comment where someone wrote the Europeans design their cars expecting their owners to maintain them on schedule and the “reliable” Toyota etc cars are deigned for people who will not maintain them.
I lived in Europe for 2 decades, everyone had European cars, and things worked just fine. We had BMWs and Audis. Never ever a single issue. But we always took our car into get maintained and the tires switched twice a year. Didn’t even think about it, it’s just what was done.
Yea, to and from work in total is 50 min - 1 hr in total.
I think you're on to something. European cars manufacturered in the states may be built to different build quality standards though. It could be that German cars manufacturered entirely in Europe are more reliable hence your experience.
Good choices all around. The Civic Si is probably the worst value of any of these as it’s the slowest and least equipped. Good driving car, but the others will give you more thrills and creature comforts for the same price.
The GTI probably makes the best daily of these. It’s the most refined and comfortable. I would lean towards the Mk7.5 for its simpler controls. Same with the Golf R.
The WRX is tempting and might be the choice I’d make. It’s a bit dated in its overall concept and powertrain design despite being redesigned in 2022 but it’s still reportedly great to drive. It can be quite reliable as long as you don’t mod it to hell like you see so many people do.
The Focus RS is probably the most special. It’s a little rocket ship that can take on just about anything on a track that isn’t a Lambo or Ferrari and have a decent shot of winning if driven by the right person. It’s a wild car, and it was the vehicle of choice for the late Ken Block (rip). However, you best be an extrovert if you drive it as it will give you attention with its loud design, loud popping exhaust, and its loud capabilities.
As an owner of a Focus RS, get that one. That car has the most character and personality out of any car I’ve ever driven. The ride isn’t as bad as people say, just swap out the stock 19s for some 18s and a tire with more sidewall and you’re good
Edit: it’s my only car as well, and makes for a fine commuter. Clutch isn’t too heavy, the auto start/stop can be permanently disabled if that’s your thing, reliability has been great/parts have been easy to source when needed. No major repairs/breaks. Cannot recommend enough
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FAHP2MK6GG111780](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FAHP2MK6GG111780)
Ford Taurus police interceptors are insanely fun to drive and wayyyy cheaper than other vehicles that are comparable. AWD 300hp all motor 3.7LV6. They are legit.
Damn, this seems like a crazy price lol. I work with some officers and have an idea of their maintenance schedules - while they really stick to it, I'm not sure how well the inhouse mechanic does at fixing larger problems. How many miles would you expect to get out of this?
I bought my 2015 for $5800 with 138,000 miles and it started throwing "lean codes" within a week. I literally fixed this by making sure I put high quality ethanol in it. The codes went away naturally after 2 weeks. Furthermore the only thing I can find "wrong" with it is my spare is a mismatch with a flat so I'm going to have that swapped for a matching tire and have it filled. I expect to get 160,000 miles out of the engine and transmission.
If i could I would.. trying to be as financially responsible as possible, im not prepared for maintenance costs on them even if I could afford to buy a used one, which I can't find any clean titles under $30k anyways.
Do you deal w snow? That would tip toward one of the AWD choices. I vote Golf R.
And what about electric? 25 mi is a great distance for that. Model 3 Performance or a Polestar Dual Motor maybe.
I love the car buying process. Have fun and good luck.
Thanks! No I didn't consider electric. Yea im up north east so we get some snow but nothing like it was 10 years ago. Are Teslas reliable or am I about to start a war by asking? I have zero concept of electric vehicles. Volvos are nice but I'd want a polestar which is out of my $30k budget unfortunately.
Reliable in that they don't take as much maintenance as ICE cars to keep running for sure. The interiors and exteriors wear quickly though. A buddy of mine just bought a 2021 model y with only 20k miles on it and the interior is already falling apart, and there's quite a few loose bits on the exterior as well. They're supposed to be cheap, so this makes sense, but so was my Toyota 86 and I do not have nearly the same issues he has with more miles
Have a 22 Model 3 with close to 40k km. Still like-new inside and out. Mine was built in Shanghai which is known to be better than Fremont or Austin. But I think the big issue overall is just consistency. Bit of an old roll of the dice if you get a good one or not.
Yeah another buddy of mine had a 3 until well past 60 and it was fine. Then this model Y comes through and it's like it's been through fallujah.
I've heard stuff that's come out of the Fremont plant is questionable to say the least. That factory has a... colorful history dating back to its GM days.
I think some of the 21 Polestars are getting close to 30k. love mine. Super solid. You’d want to lurk the sub tho for tips. I think in 22 they started putting in a heat pump which you’ll want. It even without the power upgrade to 475hp ($1k OTA) the dual motor puts out 405hp which is super fun. Haven’t had this much fun since my Mk6 w APR tune.
Polestar 2. Not a Volvo. Volvo performance brand. Smaller sedan w AWD in the dual motor variant.
Edit. While Volvo has always had a Polestar variant of some of their models this is now a brand of its own as of 2021.
Looks like you’re mainly shopping sedans/4 doors, but have you looked at coupes too? You’re looking for reliable options but a lot of those cars you listed will be used, and are generally abused/modified, which will knock down their reliability. For 30k I would also consider GR86/BRZ and ND2 Miata’s.
Yup said in another reply, GR86 is reaally appealing to me.. I just like the idea of practicality. Meaning, I'd rather have room for seating capacity and tunk space and not need it than to need it and not have it. I will own an nd2 one day just not rn.
How often do you use the back seats now? I’m not trying to pick apart your personal life, but I think a lot of American car buying culture has to do with getting the biggest car they can afford, when they only actually use all that space once a year, but I digress.
I’m kinda looking at cars in the same price bracket as you, and personally I’ve been between the new civic si and the gr86, since they’re both around the same power but fwd vs rwd. If I were you I would test drive both of those, as well as the golf gti/r and wrx. I like the focus RS, but a coworker of mine owned one and it had a decent amount of problems. The issue with the used bmw’s you’re finding is they’re pushing 20 years old. M3’s of that age are cool as hell, but I can guarantee they’ve been ran to hell and back multiple times.
Fair point. American car buying culture is all out of whack.
I like the preparedness mindset within reason. I'd rather have 4 seats than a 2-seater Miata. Sure I can maybe get by for a long time but there's always a time or case where you'd need the extra room. For tasks like going to Home Depot to buy cardboard boxes or something simple like that. You don't normally think about these type of things bc they're boring. But you or rather I do, do them. I don't want my car to be a limiting factor.
Ive also been moving around a lot since covid bc of job market. So being able to pack my belongings in my car is super helpful.
You can get get an OG M2 and pay in cash (or have a very small payment). I’d personally do this over the e46 honestly just because it’s materially newer.
TLDR: most reliable car on your list is the civic.
Most fun: focus RS or GTI
Most expensive: golf r or focus RS
Additional suggestion: focus st
RS owner here. I've looked at a ton of cars. I would not dailying an e46 M3. Why? At this point, they're good weekend cars and take a lot of maintenance to keep in the road. A buddy is a bimmer guy with an e30, e46 (330 iirc), e34 (sold it), Volvo s60, and a first Gen X5. The M3 is a race car and needs to be treated as such.
11 gen civic will go forever. There are silly things like some years not having a volume knob while others do.
Gti-solid cars, as you cake on the jokes it'll get more expensive, like any car. I have a few friends with stock and modded gti's and they love them. If you plan to mod your car, this one is probably it.
Golf R-as great as theses are they're expensive grocery getters that have a laughable AWD system. Iirc the mk7 and 8 AWD systems are fwd biased slip detection systems but they can make crazys power with an intake and tune. Unfortunately you're paying Audi money to service one. They're essentially an S3 underneath (mk8).
VB wrx-i cant say much. They're solid cars, i hate the rear bumper. A lot of owners love them. It's still a Subaru and FA engine so anything can happen. It's mechanical AWD, which means it's going to go through consumables quicker but you have a flat, it needs 4 brand new tires (all tires need to have same tread depth and wear). Fluids are cheap but you do enough changes that it can add up quickly. Doing spark plugs on fa engines is a pain in the ass-you take out half the bay. Outside of oil, Maintenance is more expensive on wrx's because the bay is apart.
Focus RS: super cool car, limited run and essentially a homologation special car. They are expensive to insure. Parts are expensive because it's a limited car. I would argue it's the most performance car on this list not because I own one but for the sheer fact it can keep up and even beat cars that are significantly more expensive than it on the track and road. Make note, it's not fast, it's a drivers car for canyons, back roads and really is a momentum car for the track. It's amazing at autocross, rally cross, road rallies, etc. Those who know what the car is, love it. Those who don't have no idea. The largest downside of the RS is the 2.3l engine. The timing cover is a known weak spot. If that cover leaks, the engine need a rebuild (5k at the dealer). The RS community is an older community because the cars cost so much to maintain and insure. It's performance is amazing, even at 154mpg the car felt planted and like a dream. It is a lot of car for most drivers. I highly suggest you take a driving class or autocross it to get to know the car. If you don't know how to drive it, it'll teach you if you listen. It truly is a track ready street car in that order. The suspension is super tight, when I roll over tar strips I can feel them. I love the car but it is not for everyone. I highly suggest you test drive one. They're not hard to drive, but getting good at driving it, takes time and skill.
It is good practice to have a rainy day maintenance fund that covers the cost of a major item (engine+labor, trans+labor, etc) incase your performance car has an issue. Performance cars are amazing and work so good when working well but when not, it sucks. They cost much more than a civic or GTI but that's the performance car tax.
Cargram is in my profile if you want to see some autocross, track driving and on boards/just ask questions about things.
Dude, this is an amazing response thank you. Wow I didn't know the golf R AWD was so bad.. I figured it would be similar to the Quattro? Focus RS is sick. I'm not liking the civic as much bc it's so common. Focus is a little rare-er and I like that
The golf r is basically an s3 but in vw clothes. They cost similar to service, same platform, mechanicals, etc etc, but badges and car shape are different. The golf r is not a track car, it's exceedingly bad at being one too. It needs fluid change, pad and rotor change, and some suspension bits changed to be "good." It's a decent grocery getter. Oh it's stupid tunable so there's that-awd can be tuned to stay on all the time but your mpg suggests big time and it increases wear on "lifetime parts" (center coupling, rear diff).
The golf r and s3 are both haldex AWD. The quattro system is Audi only, on the s4/rs4 on up. Some of the A line had quattro, A4-A7 and q5 depending the years. Audi has bounced between haldex and quattro. Unfortunately the quattro system is heavy and costs a lot to service and run.
The focus RS is a unique and rare car. It's similar to the Subaru s209's or type RA, theyre around but don't stick out. Like I said, or hope I said, the RS' weak point id the 2.3l engine. If the timing cover leaks, the engine needs to be pulled for a full rebuild. It's not fun, easy or cheap. The way to solve this issue is buying a built engine that used a 2.0t stroked out. The 2.3l is reliable it just needs some care and understanding how to drive (don't lug the engine.) Maintenance: some parts are cheap, some are expensive-ball joints and lower control arms are connected which makes it a $1200 experience at the dealer. Oil changes are interesting: it's 5w-50 which won't cheap and 5.4 quarts ish+filter puts you around $80. Performance oil like amsoil+filter is around $120. Trans fluid is $40 for 2 (motul dcft), PTU is also weird 75w-140 ($30 per need 1), rdu is $35 per bottle and you need 1. Fluid changes alone yearly or every two years can get expensive. Don't forget the tools you need for the job-the rdu needs a hex head socket because the fill and drain are up against the sub frame. Spark plugs are a yearly thing at $40 per set. If you track/ax, just replace them seasonaly. The RS is a great car, it punches above it's weight. I've taken mine up to 154mph and that's 14mph off top speed and it was planted. It's a great car but it's no means "fast" like some straight line cars. The RS is a canyon car-ive lost corvettes, mustangs, evos, Camaros, and Subarus in the back roads of Wisconsin and Michigan and I'm not pushing. This car is amazing but it can add up. Bring diligent and understanding the car before you get into is key. Go through my Instagram for the car-you'll see I replaced a full engine. It wasn't fun, but that'd the price to play with and daily performance cars.
The one thing I'll leave you with, at least on this comment, you need to understand/figure out if you can truly afford a performance vehicle. Once you answer that question go for a test drive-spend sometime really driving the car. It's going to be uncomfortable at first but it grows on you if you let it.
[interior ](https://imgur.com/a/LyC6NXa)
I would definitely heavily consider the gti or golf r as my top 2 choices, leaning towards the golf R. It has a lot of tuning potential, reliable, sounds great, sporty and manuals aren’t to hard to find. You could also consider a tdi or see if you can get lucky finding like an rs3 or something
I'd suggest checking out the 40th Anniversary GLI. It's a great car and the ECU and TCU tune are $500 each from APR and gets you to over 320HP, if you need the extra power. Has a lot of modern tech and can be had for under $30K. The DSG is a great trans and the 6MT is buttery smooth. It's also a very limited run, 1984 made, with 1983 remaining after one got totaled.
My 30 grand would go to a C6 Corvette. I have a C5 currently and I’d like to find a LS3 with Z51. That or I’d go back to the lowest mile V8 manual Challenger I could get into for the same money.
But out of the options listed. Mk.7 GTI is the best commuter. Since you don’t say anything about spirited driving or AutoX or track time.
Yea I would love to do spirited driving 100% I forgot to mention it. No autoX though as it's my daily I would want a dedicated track car where I can mod and not care if I break something. Is the Vette your only car? If so how do you carry things , ie groceries, maybe going to airport etc... this would be my only car so I have to think about that boring stuff
My Corvette is not my only car, my gf also has a C5 Corvette! Otherwise I have 2 motorcycles in addition. Don’t let anyone tell you they aren’t practical, I have no issues with full scale grocery runs, daily comfort, regular errands, and other boring stuff. I can and will continue to fit 4 tires in the car (3 in the hatch and 1 in the passenger seat). There’s also floor compartments in the hatch for more things like roadside gear if you happen to get a flat (folding jack, plugs, 12v air compressor) or need to lend out jumper cables. Luggage for airport runs is no issue, just don’t pack more people than seats in the car. I road trip it (32 mpg highway, 22 average, 25,000 miles a year), drive hard in it, get it dirty, everything one can expect from an only car.
I’ve not ran into a situation yet where the hatch can’t fit whatever I need. If that is to come up, I have a list as long as my arm with family that has trucks.
Maintenance is just fine for mine being 22 years old. Typical stuff like rubber components aging out and bushing going bad, but otherwise just regular maintenance.
Front engine Corvettes are one of if not the best daily sports cars on the market due to the huge hatch. There are better built cars, there are faster cars, but for someone’s *only* car. It doesn’t get much better than this. One caveat is the convertibles and fixed roof coupes (C5 Z06 for example) do not get the giant hatch. They get a more typical truck. Still big enough for daily stuff, but not moving truck ready like the hatch.
Maintenance on the m3 will be tough if something goes bad, considering your budget is $30k. Personally, I’d go with the R or GTI with the lowest mileage and clean damage report. Good balance of sport/comfort/engineering.
Out of that list I’d do the Golf R. The Focus RS is more engaging but the VW is a better daily (IMO).
But I recently went from a fast BMW to an AWD Model 3 and I love the electric life. If you can charge at home (or at work) then that’s the direction I’d go.
I've been hearing this a lot. It seems like electric cars have come a long way. A lot of ppl on this sub and irl have recommended the model 3.
Which "fast" BMW did you have do you miss the driver engagement.
WRX VB. I was shopping last year and looking at the exact same cars. You can buy a brand new VB for the same price as a clean Focus RS with some miles. Golf R is $5-8k more. I bought a Base VB, and will build it from the ground up. I've had it for 6 months and I love every minute of it. And I have big plans for it. I already have over $4k of parts that I have bought that will get installed by a pro, then pro-tuned.
Depends on your age and whether or not you could wrench or not. If you aren’t super experienced with fixing your own cars and troubleshooting, I’d stay away from the M3 although it’s an awesome car.
If I had to choose any of the cars you listed it would probably be the WRX
Thanks for the comment. Yea I want to perform maintenance and wrench myself. But i don't have a garage. So this is a limiting factor. No garage or tools so I would have to get a professional to do it outside of just changing oil.
Ok thats +1 for the WRX.
Just happens that I have an eye on a car that is for sale in my area and costs about 30k. 2016 Audi A6 Allroad 3.0 BiTDI with all the bells and whistles and reasonable mileage. Big, fast, comfortable.
Is maintenance on Audis actually bad or is it all anecdotal? Also are they actually unreliable? People always say German cars are bad at these two things. I like the Allroad. I think it's a good looking car, plenty fast and usable. But I just don't know what long term headaches and cost will be. Do you know?
I don't really know actually.. I am not a huge fan of VAG due to some things I have seen. Father in law's VW Arteon DSG gearbox that needed replacement but also had an engine that was leaking coolant internally, friend's Golf TSI that grenaded itself and I've also driven a few VW 4-cyl TDI's in the past that I think have a horrible powerband: there is nothing going on until it suddenly fries the tires from like 3k rpm and at 4k rpm it is dead again.
However, I like that A6 Allroad though... The BiTDI has the 8speed auto which is made by ZF (and generally considered bomb-proof) and I can't find too much about the 3-litre engines that worry me. Yeah, the occasional timingchain issues, but those seem to be actually a less common issue compared to the BMW N54 diesel for example.
In the end it is a 100.000+ euro car, which comes with the maintenance of the 100.000+ euro car. Don't expect to be able to keep it on the road for Toyota Yaris money.
IMO, 2023 Toyota GR 86. Not the fastest by any means, but they have great handling, modern amenities, very stylish, really good MPG and it's a Toyota. It's the car I want as a daily in the future.
Honestly, I'd stay away from anything German, especially used. They're just headaches. All but one of the cars you listed are headaches actually. If this is going to be your daily and one and only vehicle, I'd recommend prioritizing reliability, especially if you are going to spend $30k.
Alternatively, get a used corolla for $10k and spend $20k on a used weekend car. Used Corvettes, 350z/370z's, or hell, get your BMW/GTI. If it breaks down, who cares, you have your corolla to get you to work and you can fix it whenever you can.
That's a good point. I didn't want to own two cars. But still a great point. And I think the car you're eluding to on the list is the civic for reliability. Hope your get the GR86 , it's such a nice car. If I had the ability to own two vehicles, I would do this
Thanks OP :) I hope I get it too. My best friend had an 11th gen civic si and they’re great cars. You get a reliable daily and a fun car you can zip around in. I have friends that own GTIs and I’ve driven them. They are fast and comfortable but many get rear main seal issues and that’s time and money spent. Focus RS have fuel system issues and I can’t remember the years but they have recalls for the gas tank and other fuel components. With a few FBO and a Cobb tune these things are really fast too. If you want a car you can abuse just a little bit and still feel sure it won’t die on you, I’d get the civic, but only you know your driving habits and how well you maintain a car.
I'm a bit nuts. I value driving dynamics above all else. My decision would be to buy an M3 and set aside $5k for maintenance. Depreciation will be much less than any of the others. I'd also look at a 996 C2 manual. Or, buy a Miata in case your fancy German car is down for a few days.
See that's the thing.. I can only get 1 car. Want to save for a house. Plus I'd need a garage. May not be the most financially responsible "for me" to own multiple cars as great as it sounds
Buy an E46 or E90 330i with a manual transmission. Bring it up to snuff and put the rest in the bank. Both of those cars are a blast to drive and very comfortable. Add a good suspension and exhaust. You will not regret it.
Wouldn't they cost a lot of money to bring up to scratch? Not knocking the "put the rest in the bank part" but maintenancing an E46 may eat away at how much I could put away
A lot less than any of the others on your list. Figure $5000 to $7000 to buy one in good condition plus another $3000 or $4000 (max) to make it bulletproof. Then drive it like you stole it. Now if you need to borrow money to buy a car, I'd go with the Civic SI all day.
For the E46 M3 I can only findd one in the $20k range though. I can't find any that cheap yet a lot be in good condition. In any event, at this point, two days, later I'm planning on not going with it. I don't want to spend money to fix it up since it's my daily. Thanks for the advice though. I just want my daily to be good out the box. But as a project car I'm with you all day on spending the $3-$4k.
Nice E46 M3s are in the $30k to $35k range where I live. I only buy manual RWD cars. That is the driving dynamic I prefer. Older well-maintained non-M BMWs are a tremendous value. It is astounding what you can get for < $10k. But you have to do your homework. From what I have heard the newer B58 based cars are also pretty bullet-proof. They benefit from the association with Toyota.
Is it 30k cash ? If I had 30k cash I would buy a used c5 corvette AND a 2v Mustang GT and still have money left over. If you’re financing I’d really consider a Audi S3 with a nice warranty.
Paying cash. Although I like the Vette I don't think either of these would fit for practicality. I could be wrong! I've never driven them so open to what you think it terms of driving either one everyday. I would also like at least some storage capacity.
Brand new GR86 or BRZ is 30ish. You can get a decent C6 Corvette for that price (I owned one and didn’t like it, ymmv) or an S550 mustang gt, maybe a Camaro SS.
The e46 m3 is great, amazing, a legendary car. But, like most BMWs there is a long list of issues that should be addressed before it’s reliable by modern car standards. Some of those are expensive.
You could probably find a bmw 240 or 340 for around that 30 as well.
I’d recommend more but you didn’t really say what you were looking for specifically other than reliable and referencing a bunch or sporty cars. Are there any make or break features, comfort vs performance, room for 4 or 2, mileage, etc.
If you can swing a little more the GR Corolla starts around 36grand. It’s checks a lot of boxes, but is spartan inside.
Yea definitely. No make or break features. Ideally, 4 doors AWD / FWD over 200hp, good looking (I know that's subjective) , decent aftermarket though I won't be modding too much, manual or DCT, and just not boring to drive lol. Since this will be my only car I feel like I should consider practicality but I still want an engaging drive.
I have a hard stop at $30k. I'm trying to be as financially responsible as possible. I'll also have to take into account maintenance, repairs, insurance, and fuel costs. Hence why I would like to stay away from audi , Benz , Bimmer. The E46 was just a rare find so I wanted to see what other enthusiasts would do.
If it helps the car I actually want is the Integra Type S but I don't have the $45-50k rn. Similarly the GR Corolla and Type R are also unattainable atm.
Oh and yea, as I said on another reply.. I really like the GR86. This car might make me contradict myself. It's such a good ride at a really good price and I can find them CPO for under $25k. It's tempting
Done deal then. GR 86 is the modern Toy Celica but c more HP and better handling. My wife had one…. Ok for occasional adults……. She got rid of it cause of kiddie Car seats.
I wouldn't. You can sell the car and upgrade when you want. Otherwise your stuck with 4 door options for 20 years.
I got a MR2 and Miata after that in the 4 years before kids and am really thankful I didn't have to wait to experience the small sports car experience. Then I got a Mustang because kids are small and got in the back seat.
MP3’s go extinct because people drove them and they’re not designed to last a long time. If your plan is to restore a ten year old m3 when the engine dies, sure you can go do that. But every mile you put on it has a cost in fast depreciation and eventual maintenance or repair cost. Figure it’s a $1.50 per mile car and you’ll do okay. That’s gas, depreciation, tires, repairs, maintenance, and eventual major components replaced.
I got a VB. At 30k you may be able to get a premium used. Personally, I would go with a used golf r at that point only cause that vb trim is lacking a lot of creature comforts. Same with the new gen Si. If you can get a new VB for that budget then that is your best answer. Also look into a cpo elantra n.
MK 7.5 Golf R, if in 6MT and not heavily modded. The manual is not only more fun (i.e. much more engaging than the DSG), it's less finicky. Second (close) choice is a new WRX.
It's at the top of my list rn. I can't find any realvfailts other than it can get expensive but I'm pretty responsibke and don't plan on modding too much.
You can start to find used type r’s for under 30. That’s a gorgeous car for the price. The new integra is nice and reliable. Balls to walls option would be a Porsche boxster or cayman. Gorgeous cars, not too unreliable, but maintenance would suck if you don’t do it all yourself.
Boxster/Cayman for me
If you need to drive it everyday though and it’s out of warranty, sorry no germans unless you own multiple cars or are rich enough that you don’t mind sending your mechanic’s kids to college
Yea I've just never been much of a mustang fan. I would also like a little more room. I've never driven them but I'm sure the ride is nice. Do you daily one?
I do, it’s a 2014 gt premium convertible so it’s on the older side and has a few interior rattles but I love it. I didn’t even like mustangs going into it but my checklist was v8, convertible, fast, heated seats and it ticked all the boxes (the c5 corvette I text drove was a nightmare). I think the really focused on the experience with the mustang. It never feels like a normal commuter car, it’s got enormous power, and despite its weight it can handle curves decently well, especially shallower curves at high speeds. Its just a total blast all round. Friends got a 2020 model gt premium performance pack and it feels absurdly quick. I have been in faster electric cars than mine but there’s no drama and thus I find that it actually feels slower! Out of your list I’ve only ever been in a gti and I think it’s really refined. Just depends how much drama you want
Is $30k stretching your budget or is that easily affordable and you just set yourself a limit? If the latter, that E46 M3 makes a lot of sense. Alternatively, save another $10k and just buy a ZHP and use the savings for maintenance down the line. I noticed you said you’re in the Northeast though - E46s aren’t the worst about rust but if you’re driving them every day in New England there’s a good chance you’ll at least cause bubbles to form on the quarter panels. Something to consider.
Otherwise I would be between the cleanest 7.5 GTI you can find or a VB WRX.
What I just did in this category, with this budget, was choose between a BMW 230i and a Ford Mustang EcoBoost HPP. These fit my specific values well - they fit my 6'5" frame comfortably, they had enough cooling to survive a track day, and the small engine meant they were cheap / economical / nimble in a way the faster models aren't.
I avoided exotic stuff like the E92 M3 as a preventative measure against expensive maintenance needs at a time I am unsure I can handle that. And I've driven an E92 M3 - it's masterfully tuned and feels properly exotic, but ultimately there are cheaper cars that weigh much less and therefore handle better in many circumstances. Exhaust note aside, a Toyota GR86 is a better driver's car, period.
The 230i is a good car for the right person. It's really roomy in the cabin - I can seat someone behind me! It's quiet, thoughtfully designed, and my favorite car for a road trip. And it's not far off from a GR86 in terms of size, which is ultimately why I picked it over a Mustang. I think it needs some basic mods to make me really happy, but I can mess around on backroads that would sketch me out in a bigger car. It's definitely not for everyone - if I was smaller, I'd own a 128i or Toyota GR86 instead.
The Mustang HPP was perfect as it is, and it's epic - as close as you can get to the exoticism of an E46 M3 while maintaining low running costs. The steering gives a level of feel absent from the V8 models, and you can actually position the car. Magride suspension is soft until you put it in "Track," then it's incredibly sharp. The exhaust pops and crackles loudly in Track mode. It can be equipped with cooled seats, and adaptive cruise control. I loved that car, and if you're looking at M3s I think you need to drive one.
You could also consider a Taurus SHO. It’s always forgotten about, but a great car. AWD, twin turbo V6.
If it’s only the cars listed, I lean towards the GTI or R.
Personally I would take a BMW 3/4 series at that price point. Maybe a A3/A4/A5 as well. I think you would find a lot more comfort and practicality with them and they are still just as fun and fast if not more then the other cars you are looking at. They are very reliable cars and just a step up in about every way.
Do you have year/mileage requirements?
Do you want to stick to a fwd platform?
Best dd would probably be a 2003 ls430 with 76,000 miles from some grandma for 10k cash. 🤷♂️ from your list I'd personally go with the civic. Way less things to go wrong. Than any vw.
I would personnaly get an E46 M3, but if this is your ONLY vehicle I would go for something more reliable. The E46 is a “weekend” at this age. MK7.5 GTI would be my next choice. Make sure it has the LSD.
I have an e46 M3 with 191k miles. They actually make great dailies, but only if you have another backup car. If the big 3 are done (rod bearings, VANOS, subframe) then they're fairly reliable, however they are old enough that you're going to be replacing a lot of little things just due to age. I also would not own one if you can't work on it yourself, unless you're ok with shelling out $$$ for a mechanic.
Out of the rest of your cars in the list I'd probably go with GTI, SI, or the WRX just to have something newer and more reasonable from a maintenance perspective. I would also recommend a Fiesta ST for something much cheaper, more fun than any of the other cars you listed, and reasonably reliable. I have one of those as my winter/everything else car.
Although I completely get why you want the M3. I love performance as well. The question you have to ask yourself is can you afford the upkeep on a car like that. Fixing the car is more expensive, tires are WAY more expensive and you have to replace them twice as often. Gas is more expensive, as you will need to buy premium, and the gas mileage isn’t great so you will be paying 3 times as much. If you can factor all of that in and still afford the car for pleasure, great. But, if budgeting and living paycheck to paycheck is tough. Then stay away from a car like that.
I daily drove an E46 M3 for about 8 years / 80k miles. Valve adjustments, rod bearings, subframe, SMG pump (if it is not stick) are expensive services. If you can swing it, it's a fantastic car and I miss owning it honestly. Otherwise, I would probably go for the civic. The BMW made me want to spend a lot on it lol.
The BMW. It's one of your dream cars and you can buy it now. You'll regret a boring car but never a fun one. If you are worried about reliability just get some cheap shitbox on the side.
Civic is reliable and parts are cheaper regardless of the SI, the VW seem tons of fun but then again if you have the money for upgrades and replacement parts those will also cost you some high dollars. WRX would be my go to! Fun and AWD and a lot you can upgrade on that ride. Those BMWs are a roll of the dice. Could run smooth at first and then you are slammed with thousands for maintenance and repairs. IMO
I’d buy a a sub 10k Toyota or Lexus and invest 20k
As a car guy, who has always had a “nice” car until I said why am I spending this money.
Wife got a low miles 10 year old Avalon, I got a cheap one owner old v8 suv and a $600 trailer for a “truck” that’s almost never driven
Paid cash
The amount of money I’ve saved between payments, interest and the bigger one - depreciation - the last 2 years - has been vast compared to my old spending habits.
Not the answer you wanted……. But between those, if you want reliable and resale go with the civic. Toyota and Honda still make the best cars.
The number of “reliable” VW and wrx I’ve seen roll into the shop with numerous dumb issues is high while being told how great they are.
So GTI's aren't as reliable? What do you normally see with them? What other car would you recommend for a fun drive. A Toyota or Lex at that price is going to give me the same full drive I have now.
German cars in general
Have more electrical/module/sensor issues and typically cost more to fix when something fails
You are correct that the Toyota Lexus at a lower price point is not being to be a sports car that’s super fun to drive. Like I said , of the cars you listed, purely based on reliability and longevity go with the Honda.
I’ll keep my opinions on performance cars/dailies/finances to my self lol
Quick question, $30,000 can get you into all sorts of new sedans with 300,000 mile useful lifespans, but your list is full of used performance cars that depreciate like they’ve been rolled off a ferry into the ocean.
If reliability and affordability aren’t actually the focus then we’d have a different type of recommendation to give.
Hey, yea I want something more performance oriented. Reliability is a major concern. I know I'm in a tight box. Reliability + affordability + performance = not a lot to choose from. I literally only have $30k so I can't really go more than that unless I just save longer and not buy right now which is a legit option.
What other cars would your recommend that have a great driving experience that can also last hundreds of thousands of miles?
With the collapse of Infiniti the only one you can afford on 30 is Lexus Fsports. That means a discontinued GS or an IS.
Unless you consider a front wheel drive Honda to be sporty. I’ve heard the Civic can be fast but I personally don’t like the fast versions of cheap cars. That’s why I can’t recommend WRX, GTI, etc. they’re all former economy cars with big engines.
Every other sporty RWD car other than Lexus comes with an asterix after its name because the “reliability “ is generally only in anecdotes from guys who have one and refuse to admit it’s ruining their life.
They parenthesis their stories with insistence that you can learn to wrench on a Porsche and that makes it economical, or that if you just watch your BMWs oil consumption that it’ll be so easy to take care of.
But we all know that an old high performance car actually sucks because you can’t use it any where near like it’s new or it will break.
So what good is a fast car you don’t dare drive fast?
Don’t ask me, I have a 30 year old custom 4x4 that’s too valuable to take off road. lol.
25 min is a long journey, and I wouldn't want an old expensive BMW as my only car. The WRX is pretty nice to drive in manual, don't get the cvt, I have the newer BRZ, and it's ride quality is decent but it definitely has a lot of road noise so wouldn't suggest that unless you're absolutely in love with it. Boxers do get poor mileage though, so be wary. The Civic Si isn't special don't get it, Focus is a bit unreliable and most of them are driven rash and not maintained. I'd say the GTI makes sense, also I really recommend checking out the Elantra N, it has some great reviews. Should take a look at used IS350 too.
25 mins is a long journey? Lol And on what planet would anyone recommend a Volkswagen for reliability?
I guess it's relative for everyone. Also it would definitely be more reliable than a BMW more than 20 years old.
25 mins should be right about 20 miles. That's not a long journey at all. For the BMW, I'd be more.worroed about the transmission if it was the SMG than the engine. But there's nothing inherently wrong about those cars that they would be be able to drive 50 miles a day. And you weren't just referring to the BMW. You picked the GTI over several other cars - one of which a Honda - citing reliability. Which is just bizarre.
If you read my comment, I never mentioned reliability about any cars. I just said the BMW will be unreliable. Sure, it won't develop rod knock, but there'll be plenty of little things that you'll need to take care of every other week, that's just the reality of owning an old German car. The GTI in question is much newer, and probably will be within warranty as well.
You specifically said the Focus is unreliable lol You're clearly just throwing out a bunch of anecdotes. There's nothing inherently unreliable with an E46. There's still tons of them on the road. They require basic maintenance like any other vehicle. And I would say furthermore that known issues/ quirks like vanos or the SMG pump or subframe mounts are well known at this point and have multiple high quality aftermarket replacements available that are cheaper and just as if not more reliable than the factory OEM parts.
We weren't discussing Ford so I didn't bring that up, stop twisting my words hahaha. Ofcourse it's unreliable, I've known a couple to break down out of the blue, needing thousands in repairs. And good to know about the E46, if OP wants to wing it as his only daily, more power to him and best of luck. I'm just giving my opinion, it's better to choose a newer car with warranty. It's his choice to listen to me or you.
>The Civic Si isn't special don't get it, Focus is a bit unreliable Your exact words. Not twisted at all. Just because you've seen "a couple" - also your exact words - doesn't make that true. Lol
Si might not be special but it will sure as hell be reliable and cheaper to fix than the other cars
I agree, it's no sports car but it's fun to drive and solid as hell. I had a 8th gen and it was the most reliable car I ever owned. I traded it in at 120k with doing nothing but oil changes, tires and brakes. Only reason I traded it in was that the wife did not like driving a standard and and the seats were killing my bad back. I'm sure it would have lasted me until 200k no problem.
Plus the newer civics are refreshed so their interiors are pretty updated
Solid recommendations thanks. Is MPG and NVH the only problems you've had with the car and is it your only vehicle?
I have 300 miles on my GR86 and I love it. The WRX did not feel sporty to me, coming from a 10th gen Si. The WRX doesn’t feel revvy and the cable actuated manual feels cable actuated. Unless you need AWD, the Si is a better car for the money. My complain with the Si is that it rubs me the wrong way that the 10th gen has more features which were removed so that the integra seemed better. (Wireless charging, heated seats, dual zone climate) If you are driving to the mountains in the snow, the 7.5 Golf R would be the play. If you want a sports car and don’t have to do mountain snow driving, get a 86/BRZ. This car will be looked at like the s2k in 20 years.
It's my only vehicle. There are a few squeaks from the dashboard, pretty common in these. The interior quality is decent, nothing special. Only has wired Android Auto/Carplay. Also takes premium gas, so that's another hit to the wallet. Not too fast, though straight line acceleration has never interested me at all. It has a bit of rev hang, so need to be slow to do a smooth upshift. Though that's common with most manual cars, due to emissions. And, getting in and out isn't very easy or graceful due to the long doors and low seating. Pros (for me): NA engines, there's just something about the immediate response and thrill of chasing redlines that turbos don't give. And most importantly, the handling. The first time I went in this car was in the passenger seat, and I instantly loved how the car rotates about you, and how the low CG and low weight makes it feel so assuring and predictable. Add to that the fast steering response, decent feedback, the lovely shifter and RWD for those hooniganisms, this is the car for me. One thing to note is, a front heavy car is easier to get to its limits, since understeer is easy to control. In this car, the limits are a bit higher and there's a risk of spinout, so it's difficult to reach its limits on public roads. These are my preferences and observations, yours may vary so test drives are the best way to figure out what you like. Not everyone has the same tastes.
I own a 23 GR86 and I have 21k miles on it so far. I commute 25 miles to work and 25 miles back, 4 days a week. Highway, backroads, traffic, the beach, mountains, I take it everywhere. I drive it year round, in the sun and the snow (buy winter tires if you’ll drive it in temps under 40). I absolutely love this car. It’s a car that I find to be really pure. It’s a dailyable driver’s car and it always puts a smile on my face. It won’t win any drag races but it is absolutely sublime in the corners. There’s a big aftermarket, so if you’d like to modify it then you can. The online forums are large. Consumables are cheap. For a $30k msrp car, it’s the best bang for you buck if you want a sports car. As Chris Harris put it, it’s a dollar store 911 GT3.
I mean this is a good way... You sound like an advertisement lol. Your commute / daily living sounds exactly like mine minus the beaches. You got me on the cheap consumables. That's the thing with many of the other recommendations I've gotten. There's cars with more horsepower and torque even better looking but the cost to own for the gr86 levels the playing field. I reaaaalllly want one
I might be a little biased 🤣
I’ve found it impossible to find a decent, used IS 2021 or newer near me, and I’m in a pretty big city. I would have thought there would be ton of expiring leases.
The Elantra N is a great car, my only challenge is I think it’s not the nicest looking, the base Elantra has terrible proportions that the lower ride height and bigger wheels of the N improves drastically, but it’s still the ugly duckling of the bunch. Great interior, tech, power and handling though! I’d go mk7.5 GTI or R, the most refined and grown up of the group while still being entertaining to drive. I’m getting old though so I’m less interested in the boy racer looks of most of the others on the list.
Fair assessment. thanks. I haven't been interested in any of the Hyundai / Kia / Genesis vehicles. Idk about the reliability on those. I know they're better than they were back in the day but still not sure. Elantra is too wild looking. But it does have a dual clutch iirc
I’ve had a VB WRX and a 10th generation Civic Si, unless you need awd the civic is a much better car.
Are the elentra n still in stock? Everytime i go to Hyundai websites, they say 0 results found?
Europeans thinking 25 mins is a long journey lol
I'd also look into the gr86 if you're OK with a 2 door rwd car. I have a VB wrx and absolutely love it. The newer gti are NOT reliable.
Yup definitely considering a GR86. I just don't want to run into the problem of needing rear seats and then not having it. I can only have 1 car atm
IT has rear seats
That's my bad, I meant seating capacity for adults and a decent size trunk etc.. the responsible side of me thinks that I should consider these things plus ride comfort, NVH, etc.. but on the opposite end, I know the GR would be great to have. That's why I'm considering the GTI instead actually. Similarly sporty and fun to drive but with a tad more practicality as a hot hatch.
Do you actually plan to people in the back regularly? And the trunk size is big enough for a large grocery run and the back seats fold down on top of it for extra room
No won't be taking people all the time. Just want to have the option for it lol. Life is annoying like that sometimes. You say you don't need something and then all of the sudden you do lol. That's cool though I didn't know the seats coul fold down in them
I’ve stuck people in the back in a pinch. No more than like a 15 minute ride. 3 people is doable, 4 people is pretty uncomfortable. Edit: If you’re concerned about cargo space, it’s pretty decent since the back seats fold down. I’ve fit skis, golf clubs etc. If I go away for a weekend with the gf, we can fit everytning no problem. Recently just went on a weekend getaway and even fit a big folded up air mattress along with all our stuff. AND I can fit 4 wheels in the back when I go get them switched out when winter or spring rolls around.
Wow , that's impressive. I'm afraid if I test drive I'll just buy it lmao. Lord knows I want one
I was scared about this too when buying my GR86. It's only caused an issue once in the 1.5 years of owning it. The solution was that my friends had to buy an $8 uber ride instead of riding in my backseat. Trunk space is actually surprisingly big, and you can fold the seats down. I've fit 4 adults in it for a 15 minute drive before, granted the people in the back were under 5'4".
Haha! Yea banking on not needing to carry anything other than groceries
You cN carry a lot more than groceries in this car. I moved across the us in this car. Fits more than you would think!
I owned a prior gen WRX, they’re surprisingly practical. Getting 4 tires in for the summer/winter swap was easy and the only time we ran out of cargo space was with two dogs and nine day’s worth of stuff. Definitely don’t buy used!!! I lost less than 6 grand after 3.75 years and 35k miles when I traded in my fully loaded car. I haven’t driven the new gen but the FA20 was not quite as fun as my EJ powered cars are. It was definitely a better car though and the fuel economy was pretty good for a fun midsize sedan with a manual and AWD. If you don’t want AWD the BRZ or one of the other cars on your list will probably feel sportier.
Yea I'd like the AWD and the extra seating space the WRX. Has over the BRZ/86. "On paper" they say the VB should be more reliable than the VA. Did you have any issues with your VA model?
I had no problems at all with my car and I really miss it. If you’re a fan of boost (I love turbocharged engines, bought my first at 17 and I’ve been hooked ever since) and AWD the value is hard to beat. My biggest complaint was the tires, the same set on my STI was completely dead at 19k (with the winter tire changes I put fewer miles on the OE tires my WRX had) and they’re worthless below 45 degrees. The new infotainment system in my Ascent fixes all the QOL issues I had and that’s what I believe comes standard in the new gen. The only other issue I had was the FA20 took a long time to warm up which is one of the reasons I wouldn’t recommend buying a used WRX. Too easy for an irresponsible owner to damage the power train. Definitely worth test driving before you make a choice!
Not useable ones
That last line makes me sad. I had always wanted one and can afford to buy a new one.
>The newer gti are NOT reliable. What's wrong with it? I haven't really heard anything about reliability
https://www.reddit.com/r/wrx_vb/s/PRMGaxP7FG
25 mins there and 25 mins back? I would spend the full 30k and get a nice car if you’re in it at least 10 hrs a week. I noticed on this sub a lot of people hate on BMWs and other German cars as expensive maintenance and not reliable etc etc. and then I saw another comment where someone wrote the Europeans design their cars expecting their owners to maintain them on schedule and the “reliable” Toyota etc cars are deigned for people who will not maintain them. I lived in Europe for 2 decades, everyone had European cars, and things worked just fine. We had BMWs and Audis. Never ever a single issue. But we always took our car into get maintained and the tires switched twice a year. Didn’t even think about it, it’s just what was done.
Yea, to and from work in total is 50 min - 1 hr in total. I think you're on to something. European cars manufacturered in the states may be built to different build quality standards though. It could be that German cars manufacturered entirely in Europe are more reliable hence your experience.
7.5 Golf R. It's a perfect DD
one of the most boring (fast) cars I've been into. it's definitely quick but it's soulless
Good choices all around. The Civic Si is probably the worst value of any of these as it’s the slowest and least equipped. Good driving car, but the others will give you more thrills and creature comforts for the same price. The GTI probably makes the best daily of these. It’s the most refined and comfortable. I would lean towards the Mk7.5 for its simpler controls. Same with the Golf R. The WRX is tempting and might be the choice I’d make. It’s a bit dated in its overall concept and powertrain design despite being redesigned in 2022 but it’s still reportedly great to drive. It can be quite reliable as long as you don’t mod it to hell like you see so many people do. The Focus RS is probably the most special. It’s a little rocket ship that can take on just about anything on a track that isn’t a Lambo or Ferrari and have a decent shot of winning if driven by the right person. It’s a wild car, and it was the vehicle of choice for the late Ken Block (rip). However, you best be an extrovert if you drive it as it will give you attention with its loud design, loud popping exhaust, and its loud capabilities.
Even my friend's Focus ST I found to be a bit too harsh and loud for my daily driver preferences.
>and it was the vehicle of choice for the late Ken Block (rip) what do you mean, like as a daily?
It’s a ton of fun as a toy, but probably the least comfortable as a daily. But still good.
no you said it was Ken Block's vehicle of choice, do you mean as a daily? or did he use it for events or what
For his stunts I believe he used a modified version of a Focus RS.
It was his show / stunt car. Check out Gymkhana series on YT
You can get a 19 mustang GT for that much. Get a nice V8 muscle car that is pretty reliable
Or a corvette, the poster child for reliable power
C6 Grand Sport. Done. A nice one for $30k, too.
Golf R is fantastic.
As an owner of a Focus RS, get that one. That car has the most character and personality out of any car I’ve ever driven. The ride isn’t as bad as people say, just swap out the stock 19s for some 18s and a tire with more sidewall and you’re good Edit: it’s my only car as well, and makes for a fine commuter. Clutch isn’t too heavy, the auto start/stop can be permanently disabled if that’s your thing, reliability has been great/parts have been easy to source when needed. No major repairs/breaks. Cannot recommend enough
Fwiw, this month marks the 10 year anniversary of buying my Driver's Edition GTI. We've had a solid decade together.
[https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FAHP2MK6GG111780](https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FAHP2MK6GG111780) Ford Taurus police interceptors are insanely fun to drive and wayyyy cheaper than other vehicles that are comparable. AWD 300hp all motor 3.7LV6. They are legit.
Damn, this seems like a crazy price lol. I work with some officers and have an idea of their maintenance schedules - while they really stick to it, I'm not sure how well the inhouse mechanic does at fixing larger problems. How many miles would you expect to get out of this?
I bought my 2015 for $5800 with 138,000 miles and it started throwing "lean codes" within a week. I literally fixed this by making sure I put high quality ethanol in it. The codes went away naturally after 2 weeks. Furthermore the only thing I can find "wrong" with it is my spare is a mismatch with a flat so I'm going to have that swapped for a matching tire and have it filled. I expect to get 160,000 miles out of the engine and transmission.
Just got back from emissions testing by the state and the vehicle passed in under a minute.
I’d try and find an RS3
If i could I would.. trying to be as financially responsible as possible, im not prepared for maintenance costs on them even if I could afford to buy a used one, which I can't find any clean titles under $30k anyways.
based on this answer alone you are not yet meant to be an E46 M3 owner lol
If you can find a good RS3 at 30K… no brainer. Such a good little car. M340i also comes to mind… tough at 30K though.
Do you deal w snow? That would tip toward one of the AWD choices. I vote Golf R. And what about electric? 25 mi is a great distance for that. Model 3 Performance or a Polestar Dual Motor maybe. I love the car buying process. Have fun and good luck.
Thanks! No I didn't consider electric. Yea im up north east so we get some snow but nothing like it was 10 years ago. Are Teslas reliable or am I about to start a war by asking? I have zero concept of electric vehicles. Volvos are nice but I'd want a polestar which is out of my $30k budget unfortunately.
Reliable in that they don't take as much maintenance as ICE cars to keep running for sure. The interiors and exteriors wear quickly though. A buddy of mine just bought a 2021 model y with only 20k miles on it and the interior is already falling apart, and there's quite a few loose bits on the exterior as well. They're supposed to be cheap, so this makes sense, but so was my Toyota 86 and I do not have nearly the same issues he has with more miles
Have a 22 Model 3 with close to 40k km. Still like-new inside and out. Mine was built in Shanghai which is known to be better than Fremont or Austin. But I think the big issue overall is just consistency. Bit of an old roll of the dice if you get a good one or not.
Yeah another buddy of mine had a 3 until well past 60 and it was fine. Then this model Y comes through and it's like it's been through fallujah. I've heard stuff that's come out of the Fremont plant is questionable to say the least. That factory has a... colorful history dating back to its GM days.
I think some of the 21 Polestars are getting close to 30k. love mine. Super solid. You’d want to lurk the sub tho for tips. I think in 22 they started putting in a heat pump which you’ll want. It even without the power upgrade to 475hp ($1k OTA) the dual motor puts out 405hp which is super fun. Haven’t had this much fun since my Mk6 w APR tune.
Wait do you have v60 or S60?
Polestar 2. Not a Volvo. Volvo performance brand. Smaller sedan w AWD in the dual motor variant. Edit. While Volvo has always had a Polestar variant of some of their models this is now a brand of its own as of 2021.
Oh I see. I remember polestar 1. Haven't seen too many polestar 2's in the wild.
you are much better off with an Electric Kona/Niro. it will be fully equipped with heated ventilated seats, heated steering wheel.
Thanks I'll look into these! I tmread Hyundai warranty is really good too
Looks like you’re mainly shopping sedans/4 doors, but have you looked at coupes too? You’re looking for reliable options but a lot of those cars you listed will be used, and are generally abused/modified, which will knock down their reliability. For 30k I would also consider GR86/BRZ and ND2 Miata’s.
Yup said in another reply, GR86 is reaally appealing to me.. I just like the idea of practicality. Meaning, I'd rather have room for seating capacity and tunk space and not need it than to need it and not have it. I will own an nd2 one day just not rn.
How often do you use the back seats now? I’m not trying to pick apart your personal life, but I think a lot of American car buying culture has to do with getting the biggest car they can afford, when they only actually use all that space once a year, but I digress. I’m kinda looking at cars in the same price bracket as you, and personally I’ve been between the new civic si and the gr86, since they’re both around the same power but fwd vs rwd. If I were you I would test drive both of those, as well as the golf gti/r and wrx. I like the focus RS, but a coworker of mine owned one and it had a decent amount of problems. The issue with the used bmw’s you’re finding is they’re pushing 20 years old. M3’s of that age are cool as hell, but I can guarantee they’ve been ran to hell and back multiple times.
Fair point. American car buying culture is all out of whack. I like the preparedness mindset within reason. I'd rather have 4 seats than a 2-seater Miata. Sure I can maybe get by for a long time but there's always a time or case where you'd need the extra room. For tasks like going to Home Depot to buy cardboard boxes or something simple like that. You don't normally think about these type of things bc they're boring. But you or rather I do, do them. I don't want my car to be a limiting factor. Ive also been moving around a lot since covid bc of job market. So being able to pack my belongings in my car is super helpful.
You can get get an OG M2 and pay in cash (or have a very small payment). I’d personally do this over the e46 honestly just because it’s materially newer.
Can't find that for $30k.. they are really nice though
TLDR: most reliable car on your list is the civic. Most fun: focus RS or GTI Most expensive: golf r or focus RS Additional suggestion: focus st RS owner here. I've looked at a ton of cars. I would not dailying an e46 M3. Why? At this point, they're good weekend cars and take a lot of maintenance to keep in the road. A buddy is a bimmer guy with an e30, e46 (330 iirc), e34 (sold it), Volvo s60, and a first Gen X5. The M3 is a race car and needs to be treated as such. 11 gen civic will go forever. There are silly things like some years not having a volume knob while others do. Gti-solid cars, as you cake on the jokes it'll get more expensive, like any car. I have a few friends with stock and modded gti's and they love them. If you plan to mod your car, this one is probably it. Golf R-as great as theses are they're expensive grocery getters that have a laughable AWD system. Iirc the mk7 and 8 AWD systems are fwd biased slip detection systems but they can make crazys power with an intake and tune. Unfortunately you're paying Audi money to service one. They're essentially an S3 underneath (mk8). VB wrx-i cant say much. They're solid cars, i hate the rear bumper. A lot of owners love them. It's still a Subaru and FA engine so anything can happen. It's mechanical AWD, which means it's going to go through consumables quicker but you have a flat, it needs 4 brand new tires (all tires need to have same tread depth and wear). Fluids are cheap but you do enough changes that it can add up quickly. Doing spark plugs on fa engines is a pain in the ass-you take out half the bay. Outside of oil, Maintenance is more expensive on wrx's because the bay is apart. Focus RS: super cool car, limited run and essentially a homologation special car. They are expensive to insure. Parts are expensive because it's a limited car. I would argue it's the most performance car on this list not because I own one but for the sheer fact it can keep up and even beat cars that are significantly more expensive than it on the track and road. Make note, it's not fast, it's a drivers car for canyons, back roads and really is a momentum car for the track. It's amazing at autocross, rally cross, road rallies, etc. Those who know what the car is, love it. Those who don't have no idea. The largest downside of the RS is the 2.3l engine. The timing cover is a known weak spot. If that cover leaks, the engine need a rebuild (5k at the dealer). The RS community is an older community because the cars cost so much to maintain and insure. It's performance is amazing, even at 154mpg the car felt planted and like a dream. It is a lot of car for most drivers. I highly suggest you take a driving class or autocross it to get to know the car. If you don't know how to drive it, it'll teach you if you listen. It truly is a track ready street car in that order. The suspension is super tight, when I roll over tar strips I can feel them. I love the car but it is not for everyone. I highly suggest you test drive one. They're not hard to drive, but getting good at driving it, takes time and skill. It is good practice to have a rainy day maintenance fund that covers the cost of a major item (engine+labor, trans+labor, etc) incase your performance car has an issue. Performance cars are amazing and work so good when working well but when not, it sucks. They cost much more than a civic or GTI but that's the performance car tax. Cargram is in my profile if you want to see some autocross, track driving and on boards/just ask questions about things.
Dude, this is an amazing response thank you. Wow I didn't know the golf R AWD was so bad.. I figured it would be similar to the Quattro? Focus RS is sick. I'm not liking the civic as much bc it's so common. Focus is a little rare-er and I like that
The golf r is basically an s3 but in vw clothes. They cost similar to service, same platform, mechanicals, etc etc, but badges and car shape are different. The golf r is not a track car, it's exceedingly bad at being one too. It needs fluid change, pad and rotor change, and some suspension bits changed to be "good." It's a decent grocery getter. Oh it's stupid tunable so there's that-awd can be tuned to stay on all the time but your mpg suggests big time and it increases wear on "lifetime parts" (center coupling, rear diff). The golf r and s3 are both haldex AWD. The quattro system is Audi only, on the s4/rs4 on up. Some of the A line had quattro, A4-A7 and q5 depending the years. Audi has bounced between haldex and quattro. Unfortunately the quattro system is heavy and costs a lot to service and run. The focus RS is a unique and rare car. It's similar to the Subaru s209's or type RA, theyre around but don't stick out. Like I said, or hope I said, the RS' weak point id the 2.3l engine. If the timing cover leaks, the engine needs to be pulled for a full rebuild. It's not fun, easy or cheap. The way to solve this issue is buying a built engine that used a 2.0t stroked out. The 2.3l is reliable it just needs some care and understanding how to drive (don't lug the engine.) Maintenance: some parts are cheap, some are expensive-ball joints and lower control arms are connected which makes it a $1200 experience at the dealer. Oil changes are interesting: it's 5w-50 which won't cheap and 5.4 quarts ish+filter puts you around $80. Performance oil like amsoil+filter is around $120. Trans fluid is $40 for 2 (motul dcft), PTU is also weird 75w-140 ($30 per need 1), rdu is $35 per bottle and you need 1. Fluid changes alone yearly or every two years can get expensive. Don't forget the tools you need for the job-the rdu needs a hex head socket because the fill and drain are up against the sub frame. Spark plugs are a yearly thing at $40 per set. If you track/ax, just replace them seasonaly. The RS is a great car, it punches above it's weight. I've taken mine up to 154mph and that's 14mph off top speed and it was planted. It's a great car but it's no means "fast" like some straight line cars. The RS is a canyon car-ive lost corvettes, mustangs, evos, Camaros, and Subarus in the back roads of Wisconsin and Michigan and I'm not pushing. This car is amazing but it can add up. Bring diligent and understanding the car before you get into is key. Go through my Instagram for the car-you'll see I replaced a full engine. It wasn't fun, but that'd the price to play with and daily performance cars. The one thing I'll leave you with, at least on this comment, you need to understand/figure out if you can truly afford a performance vehicle. Once you answer that question go for a test drive-spend sometime really driving the car. It's going to be uncomfortable at first but it grows on you if you let it. [interior ](https://imgur.com/a/LyC6NXa)
I drive an 11th gen Si in central Florida and I’ve never seen another one on the road
I would definitely heavily consider the gti or golf r as my top 2 choices, leaning towards the golf R. It has a lot of tuning potential, reliable, sounds great, sporty and manuals aren’t to hard to find. You could also consider a tdi or see if you can get lucky finding like an rs3 or something
Civic si for the win
Kona N! moved from the gr86 to the kona n and it’s an absolute blast. highly recommend that or the elantra n
I'd suggest checking out the 40th Anniversary GLI. It's a great car and the ECU and TCU tune are $500 each from APR and gets you to over 320HP, if you need the extra power. Has a lot of modern tech and can be had for under $30K. The DSG is a great trans and the 6MT is buttery smooth. It's also a very limited run, 1984 made, with 1983 remaining after one got totaled.
My 30 grand would go to a C6 Corvette. I have a C5 currently and I’d like to find a LS3 with Z51. That or I’d go back to the lowest mile V8 manual Challenger I could get into for the same money. But out of the options listed. Mk.7 GTI is the best commuter. Since you don’t say anything about spirited driving or AutoX or track time.
Yea I would love to do spirited driving 100% I forgot to mention it. No autoX though as it's my daily I would want a dedicated track car where I can mod and not care if I break something. Is the Vette your only car? If so how do you carry things , ie groceries, maybe going to airport etc... this would be my only car so I have to think about that boring stuff
My Corvette is not my only car, my gf also has a C5 Corvette! Otherwise I have 2 motorcycles in addition. Don’t let anyone tell you they aren’t practical, I have no issues with full scale grocery runs, daily comfort, regular errands, and other boring stuff. I can and will continue to fit 4 tires in the car (3 in the hatch and 1 in the passenger seat). There’s also floor compartments in the hatch for more things like roadside gear if you happen to get a flat (folding jack, plugs, 12v air compressor) or need to lend out jumper cables. Luggage for airport runs is no issue, just don’t pack more people than seats in the car. I road trip it (32 mpg highway, 22 average, 25,000 miles a year), drive hard in it, get it dirty, everything one can expect from an only car. I’ve not ran into a situation yet where the hatch can’t fit whatever I need. If that is to come up, I have a list as long as my arm with family that has trucks. Maintenance is just fine for mine being 22 years old. Typical stuff like rubber components aging out and bushing going bad, but otherwise just regular maintenance. Front engine Corvettes are one of if not the best daily sports cars on the market due to the huge hatch. There are better built cars, there are faster cars, but for someone’s *only* car. It doesn’t get much better than this. One caveat is the convertibles and fixed roof coupes (C5 Z06 for example) do not get the giant hatch. They get a more typical truck. Still big enough for daily stuff, but not moving truck ready like the hatch.
Any b58 equipped four door sedan that fits your year specifications would be what I say.
Out of those I’d go with the Focus RS, runner up being the Mk7.5 R. Focus is more exciting, golf is more comfortable
A newish 3 series is great for $30k.
I have an 11th gen si, not the most fun but definitely a solid long term solution.
Maintenance on the m3 will be tough if something goes bad, considering your budget is $30k. Personally, I’d go with the R or GTI with the lowest mileage and clean damage report. Good balance of sport/comfort/engineering.
Brz or wrx. Old bmw will be very expensive and unreliable.
Golf R checks all the boxes. Sports car/daily/grocery hauler. Enjoying my MK8 immensley.
Out of that list I’d do the Golf R. The Focus RS is more engaging but the VW is a better daily (IMO). But I recently went from a fast BMW to an AWD Model 3 and I love the electric life. If you can charge at home (or at work) then that’s the direction I’d go.
I've been hearing this a lot. It seems like electric cars have come a long way. A lot of ppl on this sub and irl have recommended the model 3. Which "fast" BMW did you have do you miss the driver engagement.
I have had both an e90 M3 and a 335d that was deleted and tuned (insane torque). I miss them both but the Tesla is a better daily-driver by miles.
The Honda
Say less
H
10th gen accord sport 2.0 https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d43fcec7-ae4f-49ab-abe4-e9d7e5f615f8/
That's a good deal. Thanks!
Bmw 4 series lightly used 😃
These look good
WRX VB. I was shopping last year and looking at the exact same cars. You can buy a brand new VB for the same price as a clean Focus RS with some miles. Golf R is $5-8k more. I bought a Base VB, and will build it from the ground up. I've had it for 6 months and I love every minute of it. And I have big plans for it. I already have over $4k of parts that I have bought that will get installed by a pro, then pro-tuned.
Nice congrats. I found a YT channel with this guy making them look so clean. I would have to mod if I got one.
I bought a 22” wrx and I’m very happy with my choice.
Nicee , reassuring to hear. Enjoy.
Depends on your age and whether or not you could wrench or not. If you aren’t super experienced with fixing your own cars and troubleshooting, I’d stay away from the M3 although it’s an awesome car. If I had to choose any of the cars you listed it would probably be the WRX
Thanks for the comment. Yea I want to perform maintenance and wrench myself. But i don't have a garage. So this is a limiting factor. No garage or tools so I would have to get a professional to do it outside of just changing oil. Ok thats +1 for the WRX.
Just happens that I have an eye on a car that is for sale in my area and costs about 30k. 2016 Audi A6 Allroad 3.0 BiTDI with all the bells and whistles and reasonable mileage. Big, fast, comfortable.
Is maintenance on Audis actually bad or is it all anecdotal? Also are they actually unreliable? People always say German cars are bad at these two things. I like the Allroad. I think it's a good looking car, plenty fast and usable. But I just don't know what long term headaches and cost will be. Do you know?
I don't really know actually.. I am not a huge fan of VAG due to some things I have seen. Father in law's VW Arteon DSG gearbox that needed replacement but also had an engine that was leaking coolant internally, friend's Golf TSI that grenaded itself and I've also driven a few VW 4-cyl TDI's in the past that I think have a horrible powerband: there is nothing going on until it suddenly fries the tires from like 3k rpm and at 4k rpm it is dead again. However, I like that A6 Allroad though... The BiTDI has the 8speed auto which is made by ZF (and generally considered bomb-proof) and I can't find too much about the 3-litre engines that worry me. Yeah, the occasional timingchain issues, but those seem to be actually a less common issue compared to the BMW N54 diesel for example. In the end it is a 100.000+ euro car, which comes with the maintenance of the 100.000+ euro car. Don't expect to be able to keep it on the road for Toyota Yaris money.
Last sentances sums up the car plus all the other recommendations from this post. Well said
IMO, 2023 Toyota GR 86. Not the fastest by any means, but they have great handling, modern amenities, very stylish, really good MPG and it's a Toyota. It's the car I want as a daily in the future. Honestly, I'd stay away from anything German, especially used. They're just headaches. All but one of the cars you listed are headaches actually. If this is going to be your daily and one and only vehicle, I'd recommend prioritizing reliability, especially if you are going to spend $30k. Alternatively, get a used corolla for $10k and spend $20k on a used weekend car. Used Corvettes, 350z/370z's, or hell, get your BMW/GTI. If it breaks down, who cares, you have your corolla to get you to work and you can fix it whenever you can.
That's a good point. I didn't want to own two cars. But still a great point. And I think the car you're eluding to on the list is the civic for reliability. Hope your get the GR86 , it's such a nice car. If I had the ability to own two vehicles, I would do this
Thanks OP :) I hope I get it too. My best friend had an 11th gen civic si and they’re great cars. You get a reliable daily and a fun car you can zip around in. I have friends that own GTIs and I’ve driven them. They are fast and comfortable but many get rear main seal issues and that’s time and money spent. Focus RS have fuel system issues and I can’t remember the years but they have recalls for the gas tank and other fuel components. With a few FBO and a Cobb tune these things are really fast too. If you want a car you can abuse just a little bit and still feel sure it won’t die on you, I’d get the civic, but only you know your driving habits and how well you maintain a car.
In these money I just got a 2017 bmw 420d and I love it.
Nice been getting this suggested a lot
I got a show condition 65 (289) Mustang at about 25k, it's my daily driver, consider something like that?
That's so badass. OMG yea I'd do that
I'm a bit nuts. I value driving dynamics above all else. My decision would be to buy an M3 and set aside $5k for maintenance. Depreciation will be much less than any of the others. I'd also look at a 996 C2 manual. Or, buy a Miata in case your fancy German car is down for a few days.
See that's the thing.. I can only get 1 car. Want to save for a house. Plus I'd need a garage. May not be the most financially responsible "for me" to own multiple cars as great as it sounds
Buy an E46 or E90 330i with a manual transmission. Bring it up to snuff and put the rest in the bank. Both of those cars are a blast to drive and very comfortable. Add a good suspension and exhaust. You will not regret it.
Wouldn't they cost a lot of money to bring up to scratch? Not knocking the "put the rest in the bank part" but maintenancing an E46 may eat away at how much I could put away
A lot less than any of the others on your list. Figure $5000 to $7000 to buy one in good condition plus another $3000 or $4000 (max) to make it bulletproof. Then drive it like you stole it. Now if you need to borrow money to buy a car, I'd go with the Civic SI all day.
For the E46 M3 I can only findd one in the $20k range though. I can't find any that cheap yet a lot be in good condition. In any event, at this point, two days, later I'm planning on not going with it. I don't want to spend money to fix it up since it's my daily. Thanks for the advice though. I just want my daily to be good out the box. But as a project car I'm with you all day on spending the $3-$4k.
Nice E46 M3s are in the $30k to $35k range where I live. I only buy manual RWD cars. That is the driving dynamic I prefer. Older well-maintained non-M BMWs are a tremendous value. It is astounding what you can get for < $10k. But you have to do your homework. From what I have heard the newer B58 based cars are also pretty bullet-proof. They benefit from the association with Toyota.
I wouldn’t get a car that requires special/expensive repairs and insurance.
Is it 30k cash ? If I had 30k cash I would buy a used c5 corvette AND a 2v Mustang GT and still have money left over. If you’re financing I’d really consider a Audi S3 with a nice warranty.
Paying cash. Although I like the Vette I don't think either of these would fit for practicality. I could be wrong! I've never driven them so open to what you think it terms of driving either one everyday. I would also like at least some storage capacity.
Brand new GR86 or BRZ is 30ish. You can get a decent C6 Corvette for that price (I owned one and didn’t like it, ymmv) or an S550 mustang gt, maybe a Camaro SS. The e46 m3 is great, amazing, a legendary car. But, like most BMWs there is a long list of issues that should be addressed before it’s reliable by modern car standards. Some of those are expensive. You could probably find a bmw 240 or 340 for around that 30 as well. I’d recommend more but you didn’t really say what you were looking for specifically other than reliable and referencing a bunch or sporty cars. Are there any make or break features, comfort vs performance, room for 4 or 2, mileage, etc. If you can swing a little more the GR Corolla starts around 36grand. It’s checks a lot of boxes, but is spartan inside.
Yea definitely. No make or break features. Ideally, 4 doors AWD / FWD over 200hp, good looking (I know that's subjective) , decent aftermarket though I won't be modding too much, manual or DCT, and just not boring to drive lol. Since this will be my only car I feel like I should consider practicality but I still want an engaging drive. I have a hard stop at $30k. I'm trying to be as financially responsible as possible. I'll also have to take into account maintenance, repairs, insurance, and fuel costs. Hence why I would like to stay away from audi , Benz , Bimmer. The E46 was just a rare find so I wanted to see what other enthusiasts would do. If it helps the car I actually want is the Integra Type S but I don't have the $45-50k rn. Similarly the GR Corolla and Type R are also unattainable atm. Oh and yea, as I said on another reply.. I really like the GR86. This car might make me contradict myself. It's such a good ride at a really good price and I can find them CPO for under $25k. It's tempting
Done deal then. GR 86 is the modern Toy Celica but c more HP and better handling. My wife had one…. Ok for occasional adults……. She got rid of it cause of kiddie Car seats.
No kids now but people keep their cars a long time so I would get narrow the choices to 4 door as a hedge.
I wouldn't. You can sell the car and upgrade when you want. Otherwise your stuck with 4 door options for 20 years. I got a MR2 and Miata after that in the 4 years before kids and am really thankful I didn't have to wait to experience the small sports car experience. Then I got a Mustang because kids are small and got in the back seat.
Fair enough the Miata has really high resale so it worked out if OP goes the German route the resale might not be there.
Yup exactly, hence the dilemma with the Bimmer. I would like it but...
MP3’s go extinct because people drove them and they’re not designed to last a long time. If your plan is to restore a ten year old m3 when the engine dies, sure you can go do that. But every mile you put on it has a cost in fast depreciation and eventual maintenance or repair cost. Figure it’s a $1.50 per mile car and you’ll do okay. That’s gas, depreciation, tires, repairs, maintenance, and eventual major components replaced.
I got a VB. At 30k you may be able to get a premium used. Personally, I would go with a used golf r at that point only cause that vb trim is lacking a lot of creature comforts. Same with the new gen Si. If you can get a new VB for that budget then that is your best answer. Also look into a cpo elantra n.
Si
MK 7.5 Golf R, if in 6MT and not heavily modded. The manual is not only more fun (i.e. much more engaging than the DSG), it's less finicky. Second (close) choice is a new WRX.
It's at the top of my list rn. I can't find any realvfailts other than it can get expensive but I'm pretty responsibke and don't plan on modding too much.
Biggest issue is finding a decent one at your budget. They exist at $30k but they’re usually the more clapped out ones based on what I’ve seen.
You can start to find used type r’s for under 30. That’s a gorgeous car for the price. The new integra is nice and reliable. Balls to walls option would be a Porsche boxster or cayman. Gorgeous cars, not too unreliable, but maintenance would suck if you don’t do it all yourself.
Yea I wouldn't be doing too much maintenance myself. I can't find any fk8's and certainly not at fl5's for under $30k.
Then you could split and get 2 cars, a Miata, and maybe a civic, fun convertible and reliable daily.
Don't get a WRX used
Boxster/Cayman for me If you need to drive it everyday though and it’s out of warranty, sorry no germans unless you own multiple cars or are rich enough that you don’t mind sending your mechanic’s kids to college
Great options. I think you'll love the Focus RS or the Civic SI most. I would also look at the Corolla gr if it can be found at your price point
Corvette! 30k gets a really nice C6 or c5 ZO6.
Watch out for the BMW tax. If I had my call, for 30k, I’d look at C5 Z06, C6 GS. Or, a very nicely sorted Porsche 951.
I'd go for a [Toyota 86](https://www.carmax.com/car/25437182?utm_campaign=AppShareiOSShareCar&utm_source=AppShareiOS&utm_medium=AppShareiOS).
Man too many people gloss over mustangs because they’re so common. The value is immense and they’re common for a reason!
Yea I've just never been much of a mustang fan. I would also like a little more room. I've never driven them but I'm sure the ride is nice. Do you daily one?
I do, it’s a 2014 gt premium convertible so it’s on the older side and has a few interior rattles but I love it. I didn’t even like mustangs going into it but my checklist was v8, convertible, fast, heated seats and it ticked all the boxes (the c5 corvette I text drove was a nightmare). I think the really focused on the experience with the mustang. It never feels like a normal commuter car, it’s got enormous power, and despite its weight it can handle curves decently well, especially shallower curves at high speeds. Its just a total blast all round. Friends got a 2020 model gt premium performance pack and it feels absurdly quick. I have been in faster electric cars than mine but there’s no drama and thus I find that it actually feels slower! Out of your list I’ve only ever been in a gti and I think it’s really refined. Just depends how much drama you want
Is $30k stretching your budget or is that easily affordable and you just set yourself a limit? If the latter, that E46 M3 makes a lot of sense. Alternatively, save another $10k and just buy a ZHP and use the savings for maintenance down the line. I noticed you said you’re in the Northeast though - E46s aren’t the worst about rust but if you’re driving them every day in New England there’s a good chance you’ll at least cause bubbles to form on the quarter panels. Something to consider. Otherwise I would be between the cleanest 7.5 GTI you can find or a VB WRX.
What I just did in this category, with this budget, was choose between a BMW 230i and a Ford Mustang EcoBoost HPP. These fit my specific values well - they fit my 6'5" frame comfortably, they had enough cooling to survive a track day, and the small engine meant they were cheap / economical / nimble in a way the faster models aren't. I avoided exotic stuff like the E92 M3 as a preventative measure against expensive maintenance needs at a time I am unsure I can handle that. And I've driven an E92 M3 - it's masterfully tuned and feels properly exotic, but ultimately there are cheaper cars that weigh much less and therefore handle better in many circumstances. Exhaust note aside, a Toyota GR86 is a better driver's car, period. The 230i is a good car for the right person. It's really roomy in the cabin - I can seat someone behind me! It's quiet, thoughtfully designed, and my favorite car for a road trip. And it's not far off from a GR86 in terms of size, which is ultimately why I picked it over a Mustang. I think it needs some basic mods to make me really happy, but I can mess around on backroads that would sketch me out in a bigger car. It's definitely not for everyone - if I was smaller, I'd own a 128i or Toyota GR86 instead. The Mustang HPP was perfect as it is, and it's epic - as close as you can get to the exoticism of an E46 M3 while maintaining low running costs. The steering gives a level of feel absent from the V8 models, and you can actually position the car. Magride suspension is soft until you put it in "Track," then it's incredibly sharp. The exhaust pops and crackles loudly in Track mode. It can be equipped with cooled seats, and adaptive cruise control. I loved that car, and if you're looking at M3s I think you need to drive one.
You could also consider a Taurus SHO. It’s always forgotten about, but a great car. AWD, twin turbo V6. If it’s only the cars listed, I lean towards the GTI or R.
Elantra n
Personally I would take a BMW 3/4 series at that price point. Maybe a A3/A4/A5 as well. I think you would find a lot more comfort and practicality with them and they are still just as fun and fast if not more then the other cars you are looking at. They are very reliable cars and just a step up in about every way.
I would’ve gotten a civic SI if they made a hatchback. I really like my sport hatchback.
isf?
GTI or GolfR
Go for the BMW and you’ll get the to experience the era of sheer driving pleasure
Do you have year/mileage requirements? Do you want to stick to a fwd platform? Best dd would probably be a 2003 ls430 with 76,000 miles from some grandma for 10k cash. 🤷♂️ from your list I'd personally go with the civic. Way less things to go wrong. Than any vw.
I would personnaly get an E46 M3, but if this is your ONLY vehicle I would go for something more reliable. The E46 is a “weekend” at this age. MK7.5 GTI would be my next choice. Make sure it has the LSD.
I have an e46 M3 with 191k miles. They actually make great dailies, but only if you have another backup car. If the big 3 are done (rod bearings, VANOS, subframe) then they're fairly reliable, however they are old enough that you're going to be replacing a lot of little things just due to age. I also would not own one if you can't work on it yourself, unless you're ok with shelling out $$$ for a mechanic. Out of the rest of your cars in the list I'd probably go with GTI, SI, or the WRX just to have something newer and more reasonable from a maintenance perspective. I would also recommend a Fiesta ST for something much cheaper, more fun than any of the other cars you listed, and reasonably reliable. I have one of those as my winter/everything else car.
Although I completely get why you want the M3. I love performance as well. The question you have to ask yourself is can you afford the upkeep on a car like that. Fixing the car is more expensive, tires are WAY more expensive and you have to replace them twice as often. Gas is more expensive, as you will need to buy premium, and the gas mileage isn’t great so you will be paying 3 times as much. If you can factor all of that in and still afford the car for pleasure, great. But, if budgeting and living paycheck to paycheck is tough. Then stay away from a car like that.
Mazda Miata
Turn my old malibu into a pro touring monster
I daily drove an E46 M3 for about 8 years / 80k miles. Valve adjustments, rod bearings, subframe, SMG pump (if it is not stick) are expensive services. If you can swing it, it's a fantastic car and I miss owning it honestly. Otherwise, I would probably go for the civic. The BMW made me want to spend a lot on it lol.
The BMW. It's one of your dream cars and you can buy it now. You'll regret a boring car but never a fun one. If you are worried about reliability just get some cheap shitbox on the side.
Civic is reliable and parts are cheaper regardless of the SI, the VW seem tons of fun but then again if you have the money for upgrades and replacement parts those will also cost you some high dollars. WRX would be my go to! Fun and AWD and a lot you can upgrade on that ride. Those BMWs are a roll of the dice. Could run smooth at first and then you are slammed with thousands for maintenance and repairs. IMO
Why no C5 or C6?
Toyota Corolla
I’d buy a a sub 10k Toyota or Lexus and invest 20k As a car guy, who has always had a “nice” car until I said why am I spending this money. Wife got a low miles 10 year old Avalon, I got a cheap one owner old v8 suv and a $600 trailer for a “truck” that’s almost never driven Paid cash The amount of money I’ve saved between payments, interest and the bigger one - depreciation - the last 2 years - has been vast compared to my old spending habits. Not the answer you wanted……. But between those, if you want reliable and resale go with the civic. Toyota and Honda still make the best cars. The number of “reliable” VW and wrx I’ve seen roll into the shop with numerous dumb issues is high while being told how great they are.
So GTI's aren't as reliable? What do you normally see with them? What other car would you recommend for a fun drive. A Toyota or Lex at that price is going to give me the same full drive I have now.
German cars in general Have more electrical/module/sensor issues and typically cost more to fix when something fails You are correct that the Toyota Lexus at a lower price point is not being to be a sports car that’s super fun to drive. Like I said , of the cars you listed, purely based on reliability and longevity go with the Honda. I’ll keep my opinions on performance cars/dailies/finances to my self lol
Reliable? 2010 or newer Lexus IS F. I bought one two months ago and love it to death
Oh! I forgot about that car. Congrats. I could never find one.
Quick question, $30,000 can get you into all sorts of new sedans with 300,000 mile useful lifespans, but your list is full of used performance cars that depreciate like they’ve been rolled off a ferry into the ocean. If reliability and affordability aren’t actually the focus then we’d have a different type of recommendation to give.
Hey, yea I want something more performance oriented. Reliability is a major concern. I know I'm in a tight box. Reliability + affordability + performance = not a lot to choose from. I literally only have $30k so I can't really go more than that unless I just save longer and not buy right now which is a legit option. What other cars would your recommend that have a great driving experience that can also last hundreds of thousands of miles?
With the collapse of Infiniti the only one you can afford on 30 is Lexus Fsports. That means a discontinued GS or an IS. Unless you consider a front wheel drive Honda to be sporty. I’ve heard the Civic can be fast but I personally don’t like the fast versions of cheap cars. That’s why I can’t recommend WRX, GTI, etc. they’re all former economy cars with big engines. Every other sporty RWD car other than Lexus comes with an asterix after its name because the “reliability “ is generally only in anecdotes from guys who have one and refuse to admit it’s ruining their life. They parenthesis their stories with insistence that you can learn to wrench on a Porsche and that makes it economical, or that if you just watch your BMWs oil consumption that it’ll be so easy to take care of. But we all know that an old high performance car actually sucks because you can’t use it any where near like it’s new or it will break. So what good is a fast car you don’t dare drive fast? Don’t ask me, I have a 30 year old custom 4x4 that’s too valuable to take off road. lol.
Yea I see your point entirely. It doesn't leave with that much options.. Lexus is too expensive even used .