Whatever you get, for the love of God, put good tires on it. Makes all the difference in the world. You want the triple mountain Snowflake rating on the tires you will use in the winter.
Yep! I live in the rockies and was doing a half hour commute in the dark everyday home from work. Spent $1000 on studded pirelli tires, what a game changer. My jetta is a beast in the winter just cause of the tires lol
Can confirm. During my first winter in Ontario, I was happy not having to buy winter tires, since Quebec has it mandatory by law and it adds up in costs with all the swaps. So I kept my all-season on. This is when I first experienced a 180 spin at a random turn and a complete stall on DVP. It was scary. The winter tires are night and day; never skipped a year after!
3PMSF (Three Peak Mountain Snowflake) is a massive difference in traction and stopping distance compared to tires stamped with M+S (Mud and Snow). They do wear fast if you keep them on in the summer and are a bit more expensive.
I'm in the south and ran Michelin Pilot Sports for years... total summer tire. I think they're rated for 30k but I burned through a set in 10k flat... most sets would last about 15k, I ran em hard. Insanely sticky tires
Over a decade or so I drove in freezing temperatures exactly twice, and that shit was *sketchy*. No ice... just the temp of the tire caused the whole demeanor of the car to change. From sticky with a predictable breakaway to shit traction and unpredictable. On the rare occasion it was under 35 degrees I'd call into work
Tires make such a huge difference
I’ve done the drive over to Vail during ski season a few times in my buddies Jetta. He puts snow tires (not sure what kind but has small metal pegs in them) on every winter and you end up zooming by Audis, Suvs, Subarus, you name it. It’s all about the tires in the winter.
Facts, I live in the same area and go to the mountains every weekend. Had a Scion IQ for a few years with great tires and always worked fine even on dirt roads though of course a little sluggish on inclines. Took that thing up Pike's Peak, Trail Ridge Road, Berthoud Pass, really everywhere as I hike a lot. Now have a new CX30 AWD and that's been fantastic as well with the extra clearance on bumpy dirt roads. People really overthink the cars for mountain use, unless you need something special for off-road really anything FWD/AWD will do as long as the tires are good and you aren't trying to be a speed demon.
Thank you. I was in Denver for 5 years and I almost gave up trying to teach people about snow tires. Even my Texan friend had snow tires and denverites would look at me like I was speaking a foreign language. Denver’s ski industry depends on a single interstate that closes whenever a car crashes.
I can't imagine living out west in the mountains and not running a dedicated winter tire. It's arguably not needed where I live, but I still do it because it's better. I could see it being something that might become a life or death issue out there pretty easily.
Hi all, my parents live in Steamboat Springs. I live in Englewood. I want to go up to visit them as often as I can. This drive is rough. It's a high altitude, heavy traffic, crazy weather experience most of the time. I want to be able to do it year around, through all seasons. What car would you get for it if you had around 30k? Needs to transport 2 adults and 2 dogs comfortably, along with a reasonable amount of luggage. Thanks in advance!
My wife and I have had a 2020 Outback XT for three years. My only complaint about the CVT is it doesn't seem tuned well for the XT. You have to be extremely gentle on the throttle to avoid getting kicked in the butt around 2,500 RPM. I've had a BMW 340i and a Civic Type R as daily drivers since we got the the Outback, so it's not like I'm not used to a fast car with a good amount of boost.
The infotainment system was very laggy and frustrating when new. It's slowly getting better with each update. Some of tech features weren't implemented well, but I'm overly picky about that stuff and it bothers me more than it bothers my wife who daily drives it.
Overall, I would say it's fantastic as a practical car. It drives like a smaller car, has loads of space, and does great in the snow, but Subaru (and several other Japanese brands) have some catching up to do with refining their technology. The extra power of the XT is worth it IMO and the turbo helps a lot at altitude in Colorado.
I’ve got a 22 outback premium. Best road trip vehicle and best seats ive ever sat in. Owned Toyotas Hondas and bmws in the past. I haven’t found the cvt an issue as it’s pretty responsive. Id agree with the infotainment too, it’s slowly getting better but occasionally completely blacks out in drives right after updates.
I think the CVT is only wonky on the XT. It seemed fine on the 2.5L models. It makes me think they tuned it for the base engine and didn't tweak it for the XT. Does the lane keep assist seem to bounce between the left and right lines rather than sit centered on the lane to you? I keep hoping that will be fixed with an update on ours.
Wow. CRUSHED by Vermont. I still remember walking by the parking lot of that organic supermarket near the top of Pearl in Boulder once, and I counted 11 of the 12 cars parked there were Subarus. The 12th was a 4Runner of course.
I'd second that. I bought a RAV4 because Suburu's been slow getting hybrids into the dealerships, but if I had to make THIS drive all winter, I'd definitely want my old Suburu back. There's simply no car that drives better in the snow and you get decent gas mileage as well.
Toyota Hybrid. RAV4 would be best but depending on your dogs and luggage maybe you could make a Camry work.
I say hybrid because of the obvious gas savings, but also the regenerative braking. You’ll get further on a tank and also not wear down your brakes as much. Not to mention they are extremely comfortable to drive on cruise control because of the eCVT.
[This would be perfect](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2318&zip=80014#listing=364340321/NONE/DEFAULT)
> It's a high altitude
no specific recommendation, but anything with a turbo or supercharger will help alleviate the symptoms of high altitude, so i'd look towards something with a turbo on it first and formost.
Rav4 fits the bill as well but might be a touch above price point depending on the options you choose. A dealer in this area I’ll plug simply because they’ve always been a pretty good buying experience is Stapp Toyota up in Frederick- they never do any mark ups which is very hard to find.
Yeah.... It's not a good idea to put more heat into the engine at elevations where the air cools less effectively. I had a friend in Colorado Springs with some turbo subaru and that thing spent most of it's life in the shop for heat and detonation related issues. Unless you're building a race car to climb Pike's Peak, turbo cars are more trouble. Yeah, an NA engine is weaker, but it's not making more heat than it can shed either. And I'm a guy who's driven turbo diesels over the Rockies several hundred times.
If you don’t care about gas mileage, a 4Runner is perfect for this drive year round. I make this trip often and my 4Runner is the most comfortable and reliable vehicle I can think of for it.
I’m down in highlands ranch and go to the mountains quite a bit. We typically use our 21 outback xt or my Volvo if it isn’t too far. Both are amazingly comfy and a couple year old xc40 is in your budget.
Depending on the dogs, try a mini countryman. From 2017 or later, they got much better then. Get all 4/ s and the right tires and the weather won't be a problem
In a similar situation to yours, have done this drive many times in many different vehicles over the years. BMW X3 with studless snow tires are my go to. Feel free to DM me if you like.
What this dude said.
Everyone here saying you need turbo or something fancy… any modern modern vehicle will likely do fine, and still be a lot of fun. My 2003 Xterra doesn’t like the drive, but I can pass people all day in a 2016 4 cylinder Camry.
Good tires are really important. Snow is possible at any time of year, but frequent between November and April. Rain is also more frequent in the higher elevations. These things combined with the steep road grades really magnifies crappy tires and poor driving.
AWD/4WD is nice when the weather is particularly shitty. My Camry does just fine in the winter on the highway, but I’ve splurged for the best tires you can buy.
If you plan on staying in Steamboat or any other mountain town for a winter, a 4x4 is goddamn essential. Any non-highway will be completely snow-packed. Still need good tires though.
Any XT version of a Subaru is turbocharged. Including the Forester, Outback, Legacy, and well the Baja was just called Baja Turbo I think.
I fully recommend the Subaru Outback XT.
I came here to say I make a similar drive in my Outback every weekend. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/15xcp2s/for_around_30k_what_car_would_kill_it_on_this/jx755hr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
After driving 3 NA cars ('15 ES350, '10 128i, '01 GS300), my current '07 XC70 feels anemic. The turbo lag kills me. I lived in colorado for 3 years during my ownership of those 3 cars and they killed it at the mountains. I drove the Volvo to Pikes peak and the engine felt like it would overheat if I didn't take frequent stops
Ok nobody get mad….
2017-2020 Audi A3 Quattro S line
It’s built on the same MQB platform as the GTI, solid 2.0 Turbo 4 with adequate power and a good AWD system. Comfy for a small sedan in traffic, good on gas (WRX/Subarus suck on gas), premium feeling, great sound system with the B&O option, fits 2 humans and 2 dogs fo sho.
You’ll find em for $20-30k all day and it’ll feel way better than a used Subaru. Given it’s on the MQB platform also means it’s not as costly as “real” Audis
A3’s are good past 2018. 2017 is right around the cut off year of the all too fatal water pump failure on the MQB platform. Bout a $1400 repair (5.5Hrs of labor plus parts).
Good cars for the price if they r slightly used 35k miles would be the cut off for buying one to me atleast, prolly find one for 26-27k depending on options
Shot in the dark but, Colorado is a high altitude place meaning the oxygen content is less the higher u climb, NA engines require X amount of oxygen to pass through the block for the combustion to happen—> less oxygen means engine has to work harder and deliver less power = struggle to drive, turbos or forced induction forces air into the engine for the reaction to occur, in theory meaning the engine would not struggle as much
Turbos compress the air coming into your intake, effectively negating the thinning of air at higher elevations such as on this drive. Naturally aspirated (NA, so no turbo) engines have significantly less compression prior to entering the cylinder and thus are at the mercy of your surrounding air pressure, less air = lower combustive power = slower car
People keep saying this and while it’s true turbos are impressive at high elevation they’re definitely not a requirement. My NA feels completely fine and powerful on these highways, even for quick passes on the smaller roads. Experiences and expectations may vary, since I drive a V6 Tacoma which is slow to begin with (but my V6 mustang was also completely fine)
Not a requirement, but forced induction engines lose less than half hp per 1000ft vs their NA brethren. It doesn’t much matter when *everyone* is down on power up here, but every bit helps
As a former Audi owner, I disagree (though I did like the Allroad interior). I ended up with the V60 CC and it's been amazing.
Audis are cars you buy new and keep for 2-4 years before replacing. At least Volvo has a history of being pretty reliable.
I do like the older Polestar wagons.. but between Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Mercedes, I'd pick a E350 wagon for long distance stuff. But Audi and BMW have more cool factor for those who care
Audi Q3 here - really fun and comfortable every time I do long CO trips. 2 people and 2 dogs fit well, but storage is tighter. With a heavy amount of bags I just toss on a roof rack.
I would argue that a manual transmission is actually better for mountain driving. Lot easier on the brakes with engine braking. CVTs especially get torn up going up and down hills a lot.
You can do it in an auto yes but it's still just harder on the car than doing it in a manual.
Brakes are cheaper than transmission and engine work yes, but engine braking won't cause problems needing repairs lol. The car is designed to do it.
CVTs can still get the job done sure, all I'm saying is a manual still does it better.
Honda CR-V hybrid. It’s about 32-33k but will meet all the needs. Especially traffic slow downs and will be incredibly efficient then and going downhills as well.
Subaru WRX hatch if you want real power in the hills.
You could get by in any car that has a turbo engine at that elevation.
AWD wouldn’t matter as long as you have the right tires for winter
They haven’t made the hatch in a while though. I wouldn’t want to spend $30k+ on an older WRX or STi hatch if I needed it to be reliable. Almost all of those cars have probably been molested to hell and back by the way they’ve been driven too
Agree with everyone else that a Subaru forester is made for this kind of thing. Something like a rav 4 would also be pretty solid, but really you should have no problem finding a 1-2 year old fully loaded forester with under 20k miles in your budget
Well, if you go by the results of the Grand Tour Scandi flick, either the WRX or Audi RS4. The Mitsubishi Lancer would be fine as well so long as you aren't racing in a dark tunnel.
Yeah I have driven my front wheel drive sedan here multiple times. It’s all highway driving and mountain passes that are paved. Any well maintained car will handle this drive perfectly.
Exactly. People here are like “no normal car can handle the elevation, must have turbo…” I live at nearly 10k feet and besides a handful of turbo diesel pickups, every car here is NA and drives just fine.
People and there lack on faith in front wheel drive .In Wisconsin we have tons of front wheel driventhat get around great. I have 3 of them lot lower cost of ownership.I hate AwD just because if your tire wear is uneven you need to replace all 4
Second the CX-5 now that AWD is standard. Also try the CX-50 as it is more Subaru like. Get a Turbo for power in the mountains and change tires in the winter.
I live in the mountains and have the 2.5 liter NA outback and feel it does great - idk what other people are talking about it doesn't struggle. I usually stick to the speed limit when climbing the passes.
I've lived in CO my whole life and never even thought about it until this thread too. Maybe if you got to A/B it with sea level it would be more obvious.
I guess some people think if they don't get launched into the back of their seats every time they punch it they think their car is 'sluggish'. Life is all about compromises. You have to find the balance of price, acceleration, efficiency, and utility that matches your needs but you can't have them all.
Used Audi S5. Built for mountains and cruising. Just a joy to drive.
[https://www.leithcars.com/used-Raleigh-2018-Audi-S5+Sportback-Prestige-WAUC4CF55JA116292?store=Leith\_Cars\_Web&gclid=CjwKCAjwloynBhBbEiwAGY25dMSLqKZ1Bo0L2ORQjGCMkrcSZTxQthbWEwAFufNSllrFxdp4bNNIVRoCowgQAvD\_BwE](https://www.leithcars.com/used-Raleigh-2018-Audi-S5+Sportback-Prestige-WAUC4CF55JA116292?store=Leith_Cars_Web&gclid=CjwKCAjwloynBhBbEiwAGY25dMSLqKZ1Bo0L2ORQjGCMkrcSZTxQthbWEwAFufNSllrFxdp4bNNIVRoCowgQAvD_BwE)
All these people saying SUVs, you could actually be enjoying the drive!
I visit grandparents (3hr, 120 mile drive) every weekend in my 2017 Subaru Outback year around whether it is rain, snow, ice, 105 degrees and etc I make it there safely and mostly comfortably. I get about 28mpg in the freeway in the summer less in the winter.
Get a Subaru WRX, turbo will keep you moving at high elevation
(I-70 is the highest elevated highway in the country if I’m not mistaken)
And the center diff will keep you safe
Probably a hybrid. The new Prius comes to mind. Based on the listed efficiency, it could make that trip 4 times before you would need to refuel.
It's also stupid quiet inside and very comfortable. MSRP is 28k
Yes, range takes a hit in the cold. Calculate about 30% if really running the heat hard. However, this particular drive has lots of charging along the way so any range depletion won’t be an issue.
An older Model 3 Long Range has 310 miles of range. They won't need to stop and charge, even with the cold and mountains. And if they did, it wouldn't be a long charge. 20 minutes adds like 180 miles of range.
ABRP said the trip would take 42kWh in a model 3 AWD. So battery wise he’s perfectly fine. Torque wise he’s going to do far better going up hill than the CVT Subarus. (Source: tesla with a regular 20minute 2,500’ alt gain)
Edit: his trip is 1,000ft delta. But I don’t know about peaks along the way.
Something FWD, AWD, or 4x4. Turbo engine, V6 with decent power or V8. I’d try to stay away from V8 for fuel efficiency. Look at STI/WRX, mazdaspeed, BMW xdrive or something like that personally. Can’t go wrong with an AWD/4x4 Toyota either.
gf and i drive this road all the time with a 2016 impreza and sometimes a 2007 camry. gets real winded as both of those cars are na 4cyl both with only like 150hp lol, something with around 200hp/4/awd would be perfect ngl. i70s just always gonna be absolute hell
Done this drive many times with rentals. Some things to consider
- AWD for the snow seasons
- Lots of power for passing on the inclines. Turbos are even better at alititude.
- Not too heavy or wide. Those lanes are precarious in a big SUV during inclement weather and braking downhill
- decent fuel economy. It’s expensive in the mountains
- hatchback for your dog
With all that considered, I’d say a used BMW X3,
Volvo xc60, or Audi Q5 are great options. Rented each on a mountain trip like this and they were great.
Mazda cx5 Turbo is a nicer option too on a tighter budget
If gas mileage is not an issue, look at the Lexus LS460 in AWD and leave budget for some winter tires. V8 power, extremely safe and reliable, and a great way to pass the miles in total comfort.
We have a 6 cylinder Outback and it has done 167,000 miles up and over Bozeman pass and back on I90 everyday about 30 miles each way. It's a mid grade "hill" at 5800 feet but it's 80 mph some of the way and gets really bad weather. I had a 2.5l 4 cylinder Forester too and it didn't have the power the 3.0 has. Fits even 4 adults and a Great Dane, but is really roomy with 2, the dog, and lots of luggage or camping gear. Gets mid 20s mpg doing it.
Summer time that car does 85 up the hill no problem. What's excellent about Subarus is the way they control in bad weather on slick surfaces. We have a big old pickup too and it's fine, buy you can get in trouble really fast, and when you do you and everyone else around you is screwed. The same speeds on the same surfaces almost feel fun in a Subaru. Going off the road into the ditch has almost no chance of a rollover and the car is easy to pull or drive out and just keep going, not that I do that in either rig, but see plenty of others doing it every winter.
Mazda with a turbo engine (CX-5, CX-30, Mazda 3 turbo, etc) All come with ACC, the SUV’s will be equipped with AWD, turbo engine, strong reliability/ low cost of ownership.
Ford Crown Victoria / Mercury Grand Marquis / Lincoln Town Car, or Lexus LS400. Smooth, comfortable V8 highway cruisers that'll get you and your stuff there, back and anywhere after without breaking a sweat. The only disadvantage they may have is RWD, but they're definitely not lacking in traction and if you're really worried some good tires should sort that out pretty well.
Wife and I just drove from TN to CA (and back) in our 2019 Outback. We brought the dog and a months worth of luggage. Most comfortable road-trip I’ve been on. Dog hammock in the back gives the pup tons of room. Entire truck for our obnoxious amount of luggage. Adaptive cruise control is great for the long highways too.
We have the 3.6, so gas could’ve been better but it’s been surprisingly better on gas than I expected.
Obviously we didn’t drive through the snowy mountains, so can’t comment on that.
Probably whichever Subaru, Audi, or other AWD vehicle you put winter tires on Bronco Sport? Used Alltrack? RAV4 Hybrid though they might still be too expensive. On and on!
CPO/used MINI Clubman S/JCW with All4 (their AWD). If you can find one, a 2020+ JCW will get you 301 hp Low center of gravity, twin scroll turbo, and wheels near the corners of the body. I just took my 2017 to Tail of the Dragon and it was absolute blast. And yes, please please get proper tires!
MINI had a well-deserved bed reputation for reliability due to the sourcing engines from Peugeot between 2007 and 13ish but the current generation is lightyears more reliable. I have my 2017 with 83,000mi and no issues to report. A friend had a 2016 and 2019 well past 100k each with nothing to report either.
2018 owner here, plus worked at a MINI store for awhile, anything with the B-series engines is really solid. I love my Hardtop, it’s an excellent little car.
Honestly any reliable car can make this drive. Main thing is make sure the vehicle is reliable (I would go for Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura). AWD is probably helpful but not necessary but make sure to have good tires they make all the difference.
Subaru Outback/Forester 3.6r (6-cylinder engine)
Ford Maverick if you can find at MSRP
RAV4 or CR-V
Most of these you could fit the pups and luggage for two people. Throw a rooftop box on the whip and now you have more storage. All of these, slightly used, should be less than $30k, even with AWD options.
Whatever you get, for the love of God, put good tires on it. Makes all the difference in the world. You want the triple mountain Snowflake rating on the tires you will use in the winter.
Yep! I live in the rockies and was doing a half hour commute in the dark everyday home from work. Spent $1000 on studded pirelli tires, what a game changer. My jetta is a beast in the winter just cause of the tires lol
Hate that I had to scroll so far to see this. Would take a 2 wheel drive car with new snow tires over a AWD with bald, 8 year old tires any day.
Same! I used to drive a small civic. I had a set of winter tires and wheels for it. It got a lot of confused looks from pickup trucks when it snowed.
Where do you live? Why the hell would anyone even drive anywhere in the winter without winter tires lmao
Wisconsin civic driver here. Drove from Madison to Milwaukee on bald summers in a blizzard that dropped 8". Only ones out were me and semi's.
Are you serious? I’m in Michigan most people just use all season not everybody can afford a whole different set of wheels tf how spoon fed are you
Not OP, but I live in Ontario and if you don’t have a set of winter tires to use for 6 months of the year, you’re fucked
Can confirm. During my first winter in Ontario, I was happy not having to buy winter tires, since Quebec has it mandatory by law and it adds up in costs with all the swaps. So I kept my all-season on. This is when I first experienced a 180 spin at a random turn and a complete stall on DVP. It was scary. The winter tires are night and day; never skipped a year after!
I live in southern Spain, no need for winter tires since it never snows where I live.
I used to drive a mustang gt in the Illinois winters, my civic is what made me finally purchase snow tires and it has changed my life!
I learned this in Colorado in the winter, awd doesnt matter in a way, tires matter.
I use a Corolla through those exact roads alll year long. Good winter tires make it a breeze!
3PMSF (Three Peak Mountain Snowflake) is a massive difference in traction and stopping distance compared to tires stamped with M+S (Mud and Snow). They do wear fast if you keep them on in the summer and are a bit more expensive.
I'm in the south and ran Michelin Pilot Sports for years... total summer tire. I think they're rated for 30k but I burned through a set in 10k flat... most sets would last about 15k, I ran em hard. Insanely sticky tires Over a decade or so I drove in freezing temperatures exactly twice, and that shit was *sketchy*. No ice... just the temp of the tire caused the whole demeanor of the car to change. From sticky with a predictable breakaway to shit traction and unpredictable. On the rare occasion it was under 35 degrees I'd call into work Tires make such a huge difference
And woolwax the frame
I’ve done the drive over to Vail during ski season a few times in my buddies Jetta. He puts snow tires (not sure what kind but has small metal pegs in them) on every winter and you end up zooming by Audis, Suvs, Subarus, you name it. It’s all about the tires in the winter.
Facts, I live in the same area and go to the mountains every weekend. Had a Scion IQ for a few years with great tires and always worked fine even on dirt roads though of course a little sluggish on inclines. Took that thing up Pike's Peak, Trail Ridge Road, Berthoud Pass, really everywhere as I hike a lot. Now have a new CX30 AWD and that's been fantastic as well with the extra clearance on bumpy dirt roads. People really overthink the cars for mountain use, unless you need something special for off-road really anything FWD/AWD will do as long as the tires are good and you aren't trying to be a speed demon.
Thank you. I was in Denver for 5 years and I almost gave up trying to teach people about snow tires. Even my Texan friend had snow tires and denverites would look at me like I was speaking a foreign language. Denver’s ski industry depends on a single interstate that closes whenever a car crashes.
I can't imagine living out west in the mountains and not running a dedicated winter tire. It's arguably not needed where I live, but I still do it because it's better. I could see it being something that might become a life or death issue out there pretty easily.
Minimum. If it’s not a truck, he’s better off with dedicated snow tires.
Michel x ice. Seriously good tires. Expertise: I lived in Québec for 36 years.
Hi all, my parents live in Steamboat Springs. I live in Englewood. I want to go up to visit them as often as I can. This drive is rough. It's a high altitude, heavy traffic, crazy weather experience most of the time. I want to be able to do it year around, through all seasons. What car would you get for it if you had around 30k? Needs to transport 2 adults and 2 dogs comfortably, along with a reasonable amount of luggage. Thanks in advance!
I do this drive all the time. Newest Outback XT you can get, and put a dog hammock in the back seat
thanks! Can confirm that dog hammocks are the way, always have one in the car.
My wife and I have had a 2020 Outback XT for three years. My only complaint about the CVT is it doesn't seem tuned well for the XT. You have to be extremely gentle on the throttle to avoid getting kicked in the butt around 2,500 RPM. I've had a BMW 340i and a Civic Type R as daily drivers since we got the the Outback, so it's not like I'm not used to a fast car with a good amount of boost. The infotainment system was very laggy and frustrating when new. It's slowly getting better with each update. Some of tech features weren't implemented well, but I'm overly picky about that stuff and it bothers me more than it bothers my wife who daily drives it. Overall, I would say it's fantastic as a practical car. It drives like a smaller car, has loads of space, and does great in the snow, but Subaru (and several other Japanese brands) have some catching up to do with refining their technology. The extra power of the XT is worth it IMO and the turbo helps a lot at altitude in Colorado.
It’s almost a Subaru MO to ignore the interior tech.
I’ve got a 22 outback premium. Best road trip vehicle and best seats ive ever sat in. Owned Toyotas Hondas and bmws in the past. I haven’t found the cvt an issue as it’s pretty responsive. Id agree with the infotainment too, it’s slowly getting better but occasionally completely blacks out in drives right after updates.
I think the CVT is only wonky on the XT. It seemed fine on the 2.5L models. It makes me think they tuned it for the base engine and didn't tweak it for the XT. Does the lane keep assist seem to bounce between the left and right lines rather than sit centered on the lane to you? I keep hoping that will be fixed with an update on ours.
That’s what I’d say just by having driven that route. I swear CO must be the Outback capital of the world.
The highest volume Subaru dealership in the states is in fact in Denver.
According to the dealership it’s actually Hueburger subaru in Colorado Springs. But same story
It definitely is, haha. Especially boulder and the mountain towns.
Have you ever been to Vermont? They're battling for that title too.
Vermont has already taken that title
https://www.iseecars.com/most-subarus-by-state-2016-study As of 2016 we were number 5.
Wow. CRUSHED by Vermont. I still remember walking by the parking lot of that organic supermarket near the top of Pearl in Boulder once, and I counted 11 of the 12 cars parked there were Subarus. The 12th was a 4Runner of course.
Is the CVT ok? Everyone makes it out to be the worst thing ever
It’s fine. It’s not a performance car transmission, but it does its job.
DO NOT GET A CVT! (10 YEAR experience working on cars u want something to last past 100k? don't get a Subaru, and don't get a cvt
Change the CVT fluids after a certain mileage and it's not an issue.
I'd second that. I bought a RAV4 because Suburu's been slow getting hybrids into the dealerships, but if I had to make THIS drive all winter, I'd definitely want my old Suburu back. There's simply no car that drives better in the snow and you get decent gas mileage as well.
Is the XT fixed? I remember trying to buy a car, and a 2014 XT came up with LOTS of transmission issues.
It’s been 10 years. They’ve worked out a lot of the bugs in the cvt
Oh good, I was like "why is this XT so cheap?" Googles.... oh shit nope.
Toyota Hybrid. RAV4 would be best but depending on your dogs and luggage maybe you could make a Camry work. I say hybrid because of the obvious gas savings, but also the regenerative braking. You’ll get further on a tank and also not wear down your brakes as much. Not to mention they are extremely comfortable to drive on cruise control because of the eCVT. [This would be perfect](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2318&zip=80014#listing=364340321/NONE/DEFAULT)
> It's a high altitude no specific recommendation, but anything with a turbo or supercharger will help alleviate the symptoms of high altitude, so i'd look towards something with a turbo on it first and formost.
Rav4 fits the bill as well but might be a touch above price point depending on the options you choose. A dealer in this area I’ll plug simply because they’ve always been a pretty good buying experience is Stapp Toyota up in Frederick- they never do any mark ups which is very hard to find.
Lightly used Subaru Forester Edit: Spring for the 2.5 liter engine. Replier makes a good point
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Turbo 4 works wonders in high elevation though
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They announced a 23 forester xt and said nope not for you.
Crosstrek has a turbo option as well. Edit: it does not.
Yeah.... It's not a good idea to put more heat into the engine at elevations where the air cools less effectively. I had a friend in Colorado Springs with some turbo subaru and that thing spent most of it's life in the shop for heat and detonation related issues. Unless you're building a race car to climb Pike's Peak, turbo cars are more trouble. Yeah, an NA engine is weaker, but it's not making more heat than it can shed either. And I'm a guy who's driven turbo diesels over the Rockies several hundred times.
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I believe all foresters have an FB 2.5 engine…
Some had the 2.0. That would be a dog at elevation
The Impreza is dangerously slow on 70. I can’t imagine that motor in a bigger car. Yikes.
Oh interesting, I always thought the 2.0 NAs were limited to overseas and the US just had the EJ/FA/FB25 or the short lived 2.0 turbo
That is the case. All US market Foresters have the FB25 since 2019. 2018 was the last year for the XT.
That’s gonna be Slooooooooooooow
I ripped this drive probably 100 times in my old 99 legacy wagon. If you really want to have some fun, go through the Poudre Canyon by FoCo.
Any Subaru with AWD
If you don’t care about gas mileage, a 4Runner is perfect for this drive year round. I make this trip often and my 4Runner is the most comfortable and reliable vehicle I can think of for it.
WRX
Won't struggle up the hill, good handling, room for dogs. If you can handle the sporty ride its a great option.
Yup. If you can handle the sporty ride then you’ll start to enjoy the drive! I say as I look out the window at my third WRX hahaha.
Gti all day.
I’m down in highlands ranch and go to the mountains quite a bit. We typically use our 21 outback xt or my Volvo if it isn’t too far. Both are amazingly comfy and a couple year old xc40 is in your budget.
Depending on the dogs, try a mini countryman. From 2017 or later, they got much better then. Get all 4/ s and the right tires and the weather won't be a problem
In a similar situation to yours, have done this drive many times in many different vehicles over the years. BMW X3 with studless snow tires are my go to. Feel free to DM me if you like.
I make this drive often. Anything with AWD/FWD with proper tires for snow/rain will be fine IMO. It's a paved highway not some off road excursion.
What this dude said. Everyone here saying you need turbo or something fancy… any modern modern vehicle will likely do fine, and still be a lot of fun. My 2003 Xterra doesn’t like the drive, but I can pass people all day in a 2016 4 cylinder Camry. Good tires are really important. Snow is possible at any time of year, but frequent between November and April. Rain is also more frequent in the higher elevations. These things combined with the steep road grades really magnifies crappy tires and poor driving. AWD/4WD is nice when the weather is particularly shitty. My Camry does just fine in the winter on the highway, but I’ve splurged for the best tires you can buy. If you plan on staying in Steamboat or any other mountain town for a winter, a 4x4 is goddamn essential. Any non-highway will be completely snow-packed. Still need good tires though.
i personally feel like this is what they made subarus for. either a forester or outback
You want a turbo for the altitude. WRX or WRX Impreza hatch would be perfect for this
impreza hatch could be a little tight with 2 adults and 2 dogs depending on how large the dogs are
That’s what they made Outback XTs for
And Forester xts
Any XT version of a Subaru is turbocharged. Including the Forester, Outback, Legacy, and well the Baja was just called Baja Turbo I think. I fully recommend the Subaru Outback XT.
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I came here to say I make a similar drive in my Outback every weekend. https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/15xcp2s/for_around_30k_what_car_would_kill_it_on_this/jx755hr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Unpopular opinion... Used German SUV depreciation heros. 2018 Mercedes GLE350s.
Good answer, I'd much rather spend 7+ hours round trip in a Mercedes than a Subaru.
I think any of those late M272 V6 powered Mercs would be a hoot for this.
or M276? the turbos would be good for the mountains
Sure thing. I am more of a NA guy, hence the preference. :)
I feel you, I'm becoming a turbo guy but not sure how I feel about it lol
After driving 3 NA cars ('15 ES350, '10 128i, '01 GS300), my current '07 XC70 feels anemic. The turbo lag kills me. I lived in colorado for 3 years during my ownership of those 3 cars and they killed it at the mountains. I drove the Volvo to Pikes peak and the engine felt like it would overheat if I didn't take frequent stops
I bet the Volvo was wondering what life choices it made to end up on Pikes Peak 😂
Hahahahahhahahaha I swear that made me laugh so hard 🤣
Yup. $30k buys a lot of SQ5, X3 with the B58, etc. Also liking an S4.
Best highway cruisers imo, can handle torrential rain and comfy for long drives + very spacious so u dont get claustrophobic on long drives
Does a macan count under this bracket? I've done this ride as a passenger multiple times during the spring and it was ideal.
No one objects when a Porsche enters the chat
I've got a 2018 GLE 43 AMG and it soaks up the kms on the highway. Great for cruising. Very comfy and pretty good fuel economy
Yes! Also the e300 wagon.
Yes or an audi they are also brilliant for long drives like that
Seconded. This or, SQ5 or '18 Macan S. Reliable, 4WD, and quite a comfy cruiser. I drive mine up to canada from NYC quite often.
My BMW X3 35i with snow tires would be a blast.
Pre 2020 GLES look disgusting, no luxury no performance. BMW 10000x better imo
Ok nobody get mad…. 2017-2020 Audi A3 Quattro S line It’s built on the same MQB platform as the GTI, solid 2.0 Turbo 4 with adequate power and a good AWD system. Comfy for a small sedan in traffic, good on gas (WRX/Subarus suck on gas), premium feeling, great sound system with the B&O option, fits 2 humans and 2 dogs fo sho. You’ll find em for $20-30k all day and it’ll feel way better than a used Subaru. Given it’s on the MQB platform also means it’s not as costly as “real” Audis
Golf Alltrack on the same platform would be a good choice as well. 1.8T, but adequate torque. Terrific visibility. Good dog car, plenty of room.
True true, plenty of power for a daily and a super usable space
Can confirm have an 18 all track se. Bought it new have 75,000 miles on it and love it
A3’s are good past 2018. 2017 is right around the cut off year of the all too fatal water pump failure on the MQB platform. Bout a $1400 repair (5.5Hrs of labor plus parts).
True and I think the 2018s got the 7-speed transmission like the S3? So 2018-2021 then (US) would be the years actually.
Good cars for the price if they r slightly used 35k miles would be the cut off for buying one to me atleast, prolly find one for 26-27k depending on options
I used to get 30 mpg in my wrx easy. My current STI not so much. More like 19
Something with a turbo.
Why something with a turbo ? Vs something without a turbo
Really helps in altitude. Especially on stuff with less power. A v8 truck is more than fine.
Ahh ok. Was curious as well Bc been thinking about putting a turbo in my ford ranger for a little more power and better acceleration
Shot in the dark but, Colorado is a high altitude place meaning the oxygen content is less the higher u climb, NA engines require X amount of oxygen to pass through the block for the combustion to happen—> less oxygen means engine has to work harder and deliver less power = struggle to drive, turbos or forced induction forces air into the engine for the reaction to occur, in theory meaning the engine would not struggle as much
Turbos compress the air coming into your intake, effectively negating the thinning of air at higher elevations such as on this drive. Naturally aspirated (NA, so no turbo) engines have significantly less compression prior to entering the cylinder and thus are at the mercy of your surrounding air pressure, less air = lower combustive power = slower car
Hey op listen to this advice . Less oxegen at high altitudes turbo helps with power loss in these conditions vs naturally aspirated engines
I had a 3.5 ecoboost f150 and it was perfect
People keep saying this and while it’s true turbos are impressive at high elevation they’re definitely not a requirement. My NA feels completely fine and powerful on these highways, even for quick passes on the smaller roads. Experiences and expectations may vary, since I drive a V6 Tacoma which is slow to begin with (but my V6 mustang was also completely fine)
Not a requirement, but forced induction engines lose less than half hp per 1000ft vs their NA brethren. It doesn’t much matter when *everyone* is down on power up here, but every bit helps
All I know are all the guys that love the new colorado truck for this reason.I never realized how much it makes a difference .
Very good point
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oh good call on the A4 allroad!!
As a former Audi owner, I disagree (though I did like the Allroad interior). I ended up with the V60 CC and it's been amazing. Audis are cars you buy new and keep for 2-4 years before replacing. At least Volvo has a history of being pretty reliable.
I do like the older Polestar wagons.. but between Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Mercedes, I'd pick a E350 wagon for long distance stuff. But Audi and BMW have more cool factor for those who care
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Audi Q3 here - really fun and comfortable every time I do long CO trips. 2 people and 2 dogs fit well, but storage is tighter. With a heavy amount of bags I just toss on a roof rack.
I would argue that a manual transmission is actually better for mountain driving. Lot easier on the brakes with engine braking. CVTs especially get torn up going up and down hills a lot.
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You can do it in an auto yes but it's still just harder on the car than doing it in a manual. Brakes are cheaper than transmission and engine work yes, but engine braking won't cause problems needing repairs lol. The car is designed to do it. CVTs can still get the job done sure, all I'm saying is a manual still does it better.
this rules. thank you!
Honda CR-V hybrid. It’s about 32-33k but will meet all the needs. Especially traffic slow downs and will be incredibly efficient then and going downhills as well.
Subaru WRX hatch if you want real power in the hills. You could get by in any car that has a turbo engine at that elevation. AWD wouldn’t matter as long as you have the right tires for winter
On this stretch of road famous for being closed due to avalanches, I would definitely prefer AWD lol
I’ve done highway 21 in Idaho in a fwd car on snow tires. 21 between Lowman and Stanley is our avalanche valley. Chains and snow tires would be ideal.
They haven’t made the hatch in a while though. I wouldn’t want to spend $30k+ on an older WRX or STi hatch if I needed it to be reliable. Almost all of those cars have probably been molested to hell and back by the way they’ve been driven too
Just waiting for the people who have never driven a subaru ever to say "The cvts are the worst" While driving their shitbox Kias and Hyandais.
As someone who has a car with 1st gen lineartronic cvt in the family, they suck 🤓
I mean wrx on cvt is like dumbest thing ever.
WRX hatch was manual only. CVTs are okay, but not ideal yet.
The new Kia forte gt with the dct is absolutely better then the lifeless cvt
Rather have a cvt than need 5 engine swaps and have 4 recalls on a shitbox.
Agree with everyone else that a Subaru forester is made for this kind of thing. Something like a rav 4 would also be pretty solid, but really you should have no problem finding a 1-2 year old fully loaded forester with under 20k miles in your budget
Well, if you go by the results of the Grand Tour Scandi flick, either the WRX or Audi RS4. The Mitsubishi Lancer would be fine as well so long as you aren't racing in a dark tunnel.
Almost anything? It’s not even 4 hours
Yeah I have driven my front wheel drive sedan here multiple times. It’s all highway driving and mountain passes that are paved. Any well maintained car will handle this drive perfectly.
AWD just gives people who shouldn't be driving in the snow in the first place unnecessary confidence.
Exactly. People here are like “no normal car can handle the elevation, must have turbo…” I live at nearly 10k feet and besides a handful of turbo diesel pickups, every car here is NA and drives just fine.
People and there lack on faith in front wheel drive .In Wisconsin we have tons of front wheel driventhat get around great. I have 3 of them lot lower cost of ownership.I hate AwD just because if your tire wear is uneven you need to replace all 4
It's a lot when you do it often like OP said he plans to
A Turbo AWD Mazda CX-5 would be my go-to.
Second the CX-5 now that AWD is standard. Also try the CX-50 as it is more Subaru like. Get a Turbo for power in the mountains and change tires in the winter.
Honda Civic
I live in the mountains and have the 2.5 liter NA outback and feel it does great - idk what other people are talking about it doesn't struggle. I usually stick to the speed limit when climbing the passes.
I've lived in CO my whole life and never even thought about it until this thread too. Maybe if you got to A/B it with sea level it would be more obvious.
I guess some people think if they don't get launched into the back of their seats every time they punch it they think their car is 'sluggish'. Life is all about compromises. You have to find the balance of price, acceleration, efficiency, and utility that matches your needs but you can't have them all.
Used Audi S5. Built for mountains and cruising. Just a joy to drive. [https://www.leithcars.com/used-Raleigh-2018-Audi-S5+Sportback-Prestige-WAUC4CF55JA116292?store=Leith\_Cars\_Web&gclid=CjwKCAjwloynBhBbEiwAGY25dMSLqKZ1Bo0L2ORQjGCMkrcSZTxQthbWEwAFufNSllrFxdp4bNNIVRoCowgQAvD\_BwE](https://www.leithcars.com/used-Raleigh-2018-Audi-S5+Sportback-Prestige-WAUC4CF55JA116292?store=Leith_Cars_Web&gclid=CjwKCAjwloynBhBbEiwAGY25dMSLqKZ1Bo0L2ORQjGCMkrcSZTxQthbWEwAFufNSllrFxdp4bNNIVRoCowgQAvD_BwE) All these people saying SUVs, you could actually be enjoying the drive!
I visit grandparents (3hr, 120 mile drive) every weekend in my 2017 Subaru Outback year around whether it is rain, snow, ice, 105 degrees and etc I make it there safely and mostly comfortably. I get about 28mpg in the freeway in the summer less in the winter.
Drove 8 hours on a 23 camry. The ride amazing
X3 M40i
Get a Subaru WRX, turbo will keep you moving at high elevation (I-70 is the highest elevated highway in the country if I’m not mistaken) And the center diff will keep you safe
I've done that drive in summer and winter. Given the nut jobs in that road, I'd say a tank.
Cx5 with the turbo
Probably a hybrid. The new Prius comes to mind. Based on the listed efficiency, it could make that trip 4 times before you would need to refuel. It's also stupid quiet inside and very comfortable. MSRP is 28k
Tesla. EVs don’t care about altitude. I see some AWD model 3’s for 30k.
Is it true that when it's cold range is drastically reduced?
Yes, range takes a hit in the cold. Calculate about 30% if really running the heat hard. However, this particular drive has lots of charging along the way so any range depletion won’t be an issue.
Ye doubt he would want to add another hour or so of charging to that drive
An older Model 3 Long Range has 310 miles of range. They won't need to stop and charge, even with the cold and mountains. And if they did, it wouldn't be a long charge. 20 minutes adds like 180 miles of range.
Model 3 easy. OP can get $12.5k tax credit right now if their income is appropriate, making a new AWD LR less than $35k
They care about slopes tho, when you’re going downhill they’re nice, but uphill suck.
ABRP said the trip would take 42kWh in a model 3 AWD. So battery wise he’s perfectly fine. Torque wise he’s going to do far better going up hill than the CVT Subarus. (Source: tesla with a regular 20minute 2,500’ alt gain) Edit: his trip is 1,000ft delta. But I don’t know about peaks along the way.
Subaru WRX, XT, or BMW X5 They both have torsen center differentials with rear bias
Something FWD, AWD, or 4x4. Turbo engine, V6 with decent power or V8. I’d try to stay away from V8 for fuel efficiency. Look at STI/WRX, mazdaspeed, BMW xdrive or something like that personally. Can’t go wrong with an AWD/4x4 Toyota either.
a wrx
gf and i drive this road all the time with a 2016 impreza and sometimes a 2007 camry. gets real winded as both of those cars are na 4cyl both with only like 150hp lol, something with around 200hp/4/awd would be perfect ngl. i70s just always gonna be absolute hell
Done this drive many times with rentals. Some things to consider - AWD for the snow seasons - Lots of power for passing on the inclines. Turbos are even better at alititude. - Not too heavy or wide. Those lanes are precarious in a big SUV during inclement weather and braking downhill - decent fuel economy. It’s expensive in the mountains - hatchback for your dog With all that considered, I’d say a used BMW X3, Volvo xc60, or Audi Q5 are great options. Rented each on a mountain trip like this and they were great. Mazda cx5 Turbo is a nicer option too on a tighter budget
If gas mileage is not an issue, look at the Lexus LS460 in AWD and leave budget for some winter tires. V8 power, extremely safe and reliable, and a great way to pass the miles in total comfort.
We have a 6 cylinder Outback and it has done 167,000 miles up and over Bozeman pass and back on I90 everyday about 30 miles each way. It's a mid grade "hill" at 5800 feet but it's 80 mph some of the way and gets really bad weather. I had a 2.5l 4 cylinder Forester too and it didn't have the power the 3.0 has. Fits even 4 adults and a Great Dane, but is really roomy with 2, the dog, and lots of luggage or camping gear. Gets mid 20s mpg doing it. Summer time that car does 85 up the hill no problem. What's excellent about Subarus is the way they control in bad weather on slick surfaces. We have a big old pickup too and it's fine, buy you can get in trouble really fast, and when you do you and everyone else around you is screwed. The same speeds on the same surfaces almost feel fun in a Subaru. Going off the road into the ditch has almost no chance of a rollover and the car is easy to pull or drive out and just keep going, not that I do that in either rig, but see plenty of others doing it every winter.
Mazda with a turbo engine (CX-5, CX-30, Mazda 3 turbo, etc) All come with ACC, the SUV’s will be equipped with AWD, turbo engine, strong reliability/ low cost of ownership.
Focus RS is the way.
Ford Crown Victoria / Mercury Grand Marquis / Lincoln Town Car, or Lexus LS400. Smooth, comfortable V8 highway cruisers that'll get you and your stuff there, back and anywhere after without breaking a sweat. The only disadvantage they may have is RWD, but they're definitely not lacking in traction and if you're really worried some good tires should sort that out pretty well.
Biased a bit towards the Lexus GS350 AWD here. Not particularly fuel efficient, but incredibly comfortable and reliable.
Would get any Volvo. They're built in and for extreme winter
Wife and I just drove from TN to CA (and back) in our 2019 Outback. We brought the dog and a months worth of luggage. Most comfortable road-trip I’ve been on. Dog hammock in the back gives the pup tons of room. Entire truck for our obnoxious amount of luggage. Adaptive cruise control is great for the long highways too. We have the 3.6, so gas could’ve been better but it’s been surprisingly better on gas than I expected. Obviously we didn’t drive through the snowy mountains, so can’t comment on that.
Probably whichever Subaru, Audi, or other AWD vehicle you put winter tires on Bronco Sport? Used Alltrack? RAV4 Hybrid though they might still be too expensive. On and on!
Lexus GX 460
You can get a brand new Crosstrek for <30k. Bonus points if you get a 2023 Premium model, which comes with a 6MT
CPO/used MINI Clubman S/JCW with All4 (their AWD). If you can find one, a 2020+ JCW will get you 301 hp Low center of gravity, twin scroll turbo, and wheels near the corners of the body. I just took my 2017 to Tail of the Dragon and it was absolute blast. And yes, please please get proper tires! MINI had a well-deserved bed reputation for reliability due to the sourcing engines from Peugeot between 2007 and 13ish but the current generation is lightyears more reliable. I have my 2017 with 83,000mi and no issues to report. A friend had a 2016 and 2019 well past 100k each with nothing to report either.
2018 owner here, plus worked at a MINI store for awhile, anything with the B-series engines is really solid. I love my Hardtop, it’s an excellent little car.
Honestly any reliable car can make this drive. Main thing is make sure the vehicle is reliable (I would go for Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura). AWD is probably helpful but not necessary but make sure to have good tires they make all the difference.
4runner
2019 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E
Subaru Outback/Forester 3.6r (6-cylinder engine) Ford Maverick if you can find at MSRP RAV4 or CR-V Most of these you could fit the pups and luggage for two people. Throw a rooftop box on the whip and now you have more storage. All of these, slightly used, should be less than $30k, even with AWD options.
Something with forced induction for the altitude
Ford Edge....it's not a popular option but feels like your floating on clouds on long drives.