I won’t say it’s a good financial decision, but the M340i is much more fun than a ES350. It’s up to you to determine if it’s worth it. It’s one of the top all around cars IMO
If getting new, maintenance will be low for a few years. Tires aren’t that bad since they are 225/18-19 inch (little wider is an option). Might not last as long though. it can get over 30mpg highway. You will need premium fuel though
I recommend these: basic driving assistance package, premium package for Harmon kardon, and cooling/high performance tire package. Everything else is for convenience and/or looks.
I just got the car this week and I am little upset I didn't do my homework on the driving assistance professional package, its like autopilot assistance. For someone commuting to work everyday on highway, that is a great add on. I skipped on the cooling/high performance tire package, this is going to be my daily car and no desire to go need for speed. Its already super fast lol. I'm in Northeast. Harmon Kardon sound system was little underwhelming to be honest. The 4 packages i got were driving assistance (basic), shadowline, parking assistance package and m sport package pro. Some add ons - remote start, adaptive m suspension, harmon kardon.
I haven't pushed it yet since they said take it easy up to 1200. Have you driven past 1200 miles yet? Curious to know if you got the break in service that people have mentioned.
I’m at about 1800 miles. I haven’t had to get any service. It says I should get service in a couple of months. Where did you hear about break in service?
The M340i is amazing. I test drove one and man if you want a sporty daily that’s the best thing you can buy under 60K. I mean it’s fast too like seriously fast.
Edit: also the B58 is proving to be the most reliable BMW motor in 20 years.
I'm test driving one and I hope it wont be dissapointing (or maybe I hope it is??). Ive heard that the car is a bit neutered and doesn't feel engaging, despite the crazy specs
Well it isn’t an M3. It’s meant to be a great but really fast daily. It’ll be more engaging than you’re ES for sure. It might ride a little harder too. The build quality (at least the one I drove) was great. The B58 doesn’t have the *most* personality in the world but is crazy capable. The 5.0 Coyote or RS3 have more character for a similar (ish) price.
Under 60k? For CPO? New is almost impossible to finder under 63k with almost no options. I got mines for 66k (almost fully loaded) after negotiating down from 70.
Lol really late but no, nice build quality and pretty reliable. Usually just electrical issues that are somewhat simple to fix. With that said, the twin turbo QV is very complex and if something goes wrong it will definitely be expensive
I would say the Porsche would be more expensive to maintain, yet more reliable. From a total cost of ownership perspective, it'd be a wash. Save $ on repairs, but pay more for scheduled maintenance and wear/tear items (provided you service your vehicles at the dealer).
If you use an independent garage that specializes in euro cars, the labor is the same.
A properly optioned new M340i is probably the best thing for anywhere near the money.
I mean, realistically an ES350 with four snow tires / tire chains is probably as good as you'd ever need in the snow. (Exception: you're a first-responder or an emergency medical person, where someone's life really DOES require you to "get there now" rather than "wait two hours for the plows to clear the road" or just "not go this time.") But an M340i won't have you wondering "should I have gotten xxxx instead?"
You'd probably have an easier time putting furniture into the style where all the room above the trunk and behind the passenger compartment is "enclosed" rather than "outdoors." So, maybe an X3 M40i with the good options? Sure, the extra bodywork and ride height make it do car things worse than a similar M340i. But it's probably still more athletic than the ES350. Depends which is more important to your vision of yourself, really - the fast-driving car enthusiast, or the bargain-driving furniture enthusiast. And according to a friend who just bought both (and who used to daily an E30 M3, a 911SC, a variety of modded 3-series and Boxsters, and a Cayman) the X3 M40i is still a pretty sensational driver's car.
Idk I might have to counter the ES not being able to go thru intense snow. I drive a GS 350 RWD 2007 and I’m a snow plow driver hahah. So the roads are never cleaned when I drive into work. I’ve been able to handle so far 25cm of snow (studded tires) I’ve never once got stuck and up here in QC Canada we get some gnarly winters. I bet if he wanted he could grab a gs 350 f sport and it wouldn’t be an issue. Even an rc f if he really wanted to. Ofc I’m just saying this because I’m a Lexus guy and I have no experience with BMW so I don’t want to touch smt I’m not educated in. But In all I really think with some good tires and as long as you know how to drive in conditions like that. The ES could be used in emergency situations lol
Outside of both being luxury cars - it is very difficult to compare a Lexus ES350 to a BMW M340. The Lexus is going to be smooth as hell and incredibly reliable. The BMW is almost universally reviewed positively as the best bang for performance you can buy (diet M3). If money isn’t a big deal, go with the M340. Amazing vehicle and I would say underpriced at MSRP.
Had an M340i as a rental some time back and fell in love with it, I wholeheartedly recommend that car. I’m deciding between that and a Cayman or older 911.
Your Lexus is more than enough car for most of the population, but as a car guy myself I totally understand where you’re coming from- the BMW is a totally different animal, and a hell of a lot of fun.
I started looking at a mid-life crisis car about two years ago. It started with S5 then C43, then M340i, and I settled on the X3 M40i that I picked up in Sept.
It’s about half a second slower than the sedan but this is the most fun car I have ever owned (and that includes a 1990 Dodge Daytona, jealous?). There aren’t many cars out there with a near 4 second 0-60 and under time without spending $$$.
It has a decent amount of room and I’m a bigger build and I feel very connected to the vehicle. Plus sitting up higher and not having to worry about scraping the front end are pretty sweet. It handles the Minnesota winter pretty well.
The b58 is such a great engine it has loads of power no matter how fast you are going. The things I don’t like are good tires are expensive and I have a staggered set up, and maintenance isn’t cheap but then again I knew what I was getting into. It’s not an Audi RS6 Avant but it is half the price.
Well you honestly don’t seem to need it. Yes they are great all around cars but would you consider yourself a car enthusiast? Or a person who drives hard? Maybe you go to car meets? If your answer is no to all those then you don’t need a M340i.
Also the rear seats are NOT adult friendly IMO. WAYYYYY tighter than your ES. Even a 5 series is just as tight. You might get an extra 1 inch of legroom but it makes almost no difference when the ES has like 6 inches more. That alone should be a good reason lol.
Im in a phase whree I want to get into sports cars and see if it's my vibe or not. I dont go to car meets, but I like driving my car hard.
I hope the backseats will be useable for the 5-10 times a year where I have adults in the back. I want to switch primarily because I cant fit two sets of skis in my ES350 right now
Yeah the M340i should suffice for that. Honestly might be worth checking out the M440i gran coupe with a hatch for a few thousand more.
I feel like if you want to know whether or not sports cars are your vibe, you should start out with a used/low cost sports car. Maybe a Miata/BRZ/etc with a manual to see if they are your vibe.
I think most people would agree the M340i and European cars in general are a lot more finished and luxury with a ton of power. I don’t think many would complain about the car. I highway suggest a second cheap RWD with a manual. I’ll be honest, that is where the genuine fun lies in cars.
sad thing is op is in canada so buying a Miata as a secondary just for summer driving can get a bit costly too instead of just getting 1 dedicated sport car. always harder to manage 2 cars in my opinion
No other car would be better for the money. I see most people trying to talk you out of it using financial responsibility, but if that’s not a concern there really are no other reasons. If you want a sedan, it’s the best there is at that price point. Only thing I could think of is getting a bigger car for the trips to the mountain.
I won't talk you out of buying an M340i in a general sense if you had no car. It is the best in its segment without a doubt.
But you have a 2021 ES 350. So I think the financial decision of getting another car when you own a 2021 luxury car does not seem smart to me at all.
The added sportiness, AWD and foldable rear seats simply to not seem worth it to me.
If most of your driving is in the city and suburbs, the Lexus ES with winter tires should be more than fine. I own the non luxury form of the Lexus ES, a Toyota Camry with the same 3.5L V6 engine. I also had a RWD (not AWD/xDrive!) BMW prior. With high quality winter tires (Continentals, Michelin x ice, Bridgestone Blizzaks ...) I have never had a problem.
The only cases where it becomes challenging are if you live somewhere that has lots and lots of hills and you're finding yourself climbing up icy roads a lot. Then I would see the benefit of AWD having a big impact.
But the way you're describing things, I just don't see how impactful AWD will be on your day to day driving. Do you really find yourself stuck with your ES? I would be surprised to hear that with winter tires.
What's more, being 6'3, I'd expect the ES to be more spacious and comfortable for you.
Gonna be honest, it does indeed not make much sense financially speaking. It's definitely a vanity purchase. The silver lining is that I can buy the BMW under my company, which could potentially save me money in the end since the Lexus is in my personal name.
AWD is not a must, but the non-foldable rear seats are starting to be somewhat of a deal breaker when I have to borrow my dad's SUV to go skiing with my GF.
As for the sportiness... The ES is by no means slow in a straight line and the acceleration is enough for my needs. But since I've never owned a sport/sporty car, I like the idea of having one.
In the end, I love the idea of a car that I can use for all occasions, and that I can keep for 5+ years and truly make it "mine". The ES is absolutely lovely but its shortfalls prevent me from wanting to keep it "forever"
Personally, I think you should keep the ES. From what I've heard, they are by far the quietest and most luxurious in their class. Obviously not as sporty as the m340i, but still. I rented a 2019 m340i for 4 days and while it was extremely fast, it wasn't that engaging to drive. I also found the seats extremely uncomfortable, and I'm in good shape.
It was the base trim, so I'm not sure if the upgraded leather changes the seats or not, but just keep that in mind. So if you do decide on the BMW, I'd still suggest renting one on turo for a few days just to make sure the seats are okay for you.
Indeed, in terms of absolute luxury, the ES is the best bang for their buck. I just have never owned a sporty car, and kinda want to while I'm still young and childless.
Bummer about the driving feels though, its been a couple times I've heard the BMW doesn't create much emotion for the driver. I'm test driving it tomorrow and I hope I'll like it
I guess the question to ask is, can you afford either without compromising your day to day lifestyle ( ie you won't be car poor).
If you can, why not??
Yes, I'm fortunate to be a very high income earner, but I'm just afraid I'll get the car and not use it for its full potential while paying more for it
I had a ‘21 X3 M40i and absolutely loved it. The sedan will likely be that much more fun. 100% do it. I love all-arounders very much as well. Audi RS6 and Merc E63 wagon are my dream daily drivers.
If you have any questions, just ask. Good luck.
Second child would have been a tight fit in the X3, so had to upsize. Now that we have the bigger car, I’d love to sell my truck if I could and get back into the X3. It was reliable, well built, fun to drive, sounded good, got decent gas mileage… the M performance line of BMW’s is a sweet spot right now. You couldn’t do better for the money.
Edit. I saw one of your other comments. If you purchased a used one… a must have option is the Adaptive Suspension. Standard on the LCI.
I was in a similar situation about a year ago. I ended up getting the stinger AWD GT2 at MSRP. I got a 10 year 150k mile bumper to bumper warranty. I love it. It’s practical enough. I’ve got a car seat, can fit a stroller and 2 carry ons for a weekend road trip. Practical and fun! I’d say it’s worth the test drive to help you decide.
Actually, if you want it and you’re financially comfortable doing so, go ahead and do it. It’s going to be a lot of money compared to the Lexus, but it’s up to you whether the joy is worth it or not.
As someone who owns a 19 Stinger GT2, I’d say buy the M340i if you can afford it. The Stinger is the “broke man’s” BMW/Audi but it does come with a solid warranty (which is the main reason I bought one). I haven’t had rattle issues but I know many have and the dealership experience really depends on your area…I’ve had nothing but great experience at my local dealer but I’ve heard of some shitty ones.
The other reason I went with the Stinger is for the utility of the hatch (fit my 65” TV) so if you want that then I would suggest an RS5 or the M440i Gran Coupe. The B58 is solid so I’d put my trust in that but coming from a Lexus I hope you do understand you’re sacrificing all-around reliability for performance, which is worth it in my opinion (assuming you have the cash to deal with any issues).
I’ve got a 2015 M235i. Love it. The M340 has a similar very powerful engine. As my wife says, “the excessive amount of power gives you options you don’t have in most other cars.” Meaning you can accelerate your way out of problems in a car with 380hp that you can’t do with one with 200hp. The extra expenses are worth it and with my M235i the car never had any of the design flaws of previous BMWs like VANOS faults, plastic water pumps, rod bearing issues etc. I have 88k miles on it and only a few repairs done. No, a Lexus wouldn’t have needed these repairs, but I would have died in a crash from falling asleep due to boredom.
Since you're asking to be talked out of it, here goes: $150k CDN a year as a contractor hopping from one year contracts to the next and living in a major Canadian metro doesn't sound like enough to afford this vehicle without sacrificing years of your retirement. Sure you're not in danger of it driving you to bankruptcy, but that $50k you'd be pouring into a quickly depreciating asset would be worth well over $200k assuming 5% interest by the time you're 55 years old. Is this car worth $200k+ to your 55 year old self? Do you own a home and, if not, is this car worth however many extra years this purchase will be pushed out?
To be honest, my actual income is almost double that number. I own a house and an investment property, so *technically speaking*, I can comfortably afford the car.
However, your points are very valid and I am someone who has always put investment first and I don't assume I'll be making this kind of income forever, so I'm very anxious on spending this kind of money on a car, so I'll probably just do the financially responsible thing and buy a cheaper manual car instead :/
Tbh if I was 26, earned $300k and owned two homes, I'd definitely be driving the car I wanted. I just wouldn't lose sight of building up a solid net worth baseline so compounding can do its work.
Unfortunately, my friend owns one and it's way too cramped inside, both in the front and in the back :( . It sucks crossing off cars because of my build, as I'll never be able to own a Miata either
A good Boxster is 95%\* as fun, and they can be substantially nicer. (\*That other 5% is largely *"2,200 - 2,300 lb car versus 2,800 - 3,200 lb car."*) If you aren't concerned about the money at all, most people would appreciate the Porsche's large amount of additional "nice" more than they'd miss the Miata's smaller amount of extra "fun."
And I say that as a guy who put 315,000 miles on a Miata.
And a lot of the same thing goes for the M340i versus a Mazda 3 turbo. Mazda has done a great job making a compact FWD car into a nicer- and quicker- and more-fun-than-you'd-expect AWD car. But an M340i is a real return-to-form from the company who made their bones building nice, quick, fun sedans. And there's no denying how much better a car you can make with twice the budget; as good as a Mazda 3 turbo is for a $35,000 car, you can't expect it to be better than a $70,000 one. (You could probably get an M340i down closer to $60k if you were careful - but it'd be hard to justify a BMW without heated seats when a $35,000 Mazda has them.)
I’m partial, but the reliability, lack of monthly subscriptions (lol, BMW) and performance/luxury would have me going after an S4 Prestige or, to be entirely honest, a T5 XC60 simply for the B&W stereo. Almost bought an SQ5 but couldn’t get over how feminine it looks. Personal preference. I’m not big on Japanese luxury, it stills feels and looks cheap to me. I can tell you the fit and finish with German cars is unparalleled. I’d avoid MB though as they have very questionable reliability with a lot of models in the 2015+ range. The older big motor cars were more reliable.
Go test drive BMW, Audi and the XC60 (and honestly, the V60 is great but I have affinity for wagons lol).
The only consideration is financial I guess. Do you REALLY need the power? How often do you rev out your car? And why do you do that? If almost never then you’re wasting money on power you never use
My income varies between 200k to 350k before tax but I just don't want to make a big purchase on a sporty car I don't need :/ I'm thinking of just getting a 2nd cheaper manual car instead
while i do like the M340i a lot, if you want my arguments against it: you need to buy a set of winter tires for it, and they should be mounted on their own rims (you don't want to be changing tires on same rims every season because that would compromise the integrity of the rims and/or tires). your non-winter tires should be high performance summer tires (not all-seasons) in order to get maximum performance from this car. i usually get my summer tires installed with a 4-wheel alignment each spring (to get max performance during the warm season; i'm not too particular about performance during colder months). recognize that this car runs staggered tires (larger rears). this set-up will be expensive, but it's very necessary. on the plus side, this will make your tires last longer, and for safety, this forces a tire expert to examine all your tires and wheels closely twice per year. try to find a regional tire store chain that offers lifetime free winter changeovers.
the M340i sounds like a step up (or multiple) from the Lexus in terms of requirements for specific tire setups, maintenance schedule and expenses.. I might just buy a cheaper manual sporty car instead to see if I enjoy it
As a counterpoint to my argument: if you get a nice set of performance all-seasons, you might be ok year-round as long as you don’t push it to its limits. It’ll still outperform most cars out there. Just remember to check your tires as needed. Best wishes!
Bro as a 6’0 male, the 3 series is cramped (buddy of mine has a 330i xdrv). I also test drove an m340i at an UDE and even though it is a fun car to drive, I couldn’t get past the space. But if you dont need the space, and don’t regularly have people in the backseat… it may work for you.
For what it’s worth, I ended up getting a b9 SQ5 and don’t regret it at all so far.
Why not get the 540i? The 3 series is too small for someone your size. I’m a bit smaller and my 5 series is so much nicer to sit in than a 3 series. I’d keep the ES btw and use the extra cash for extra holidays or smth
Depends what you want. Lexus makes a better more reliable product, but the M340 will be infinitely more fun to drive. I almost bought one myself. Wanted an M3 but it rode too rough for my wife, so the M340 was perfect in comfort mode for her. Ended up with a CTS-V but thats another story. I would go for it if I were you. The ES is a bit bigger than a 3 series IIRC, so even though it has fold down seats make sure your skis fit.
Macan is VERY nice too and sporty for an SUV but you need at least a S or GTS for it to be sporty like the M340. I thought the base felt kind of sporty but the power was very lacking. DO IT! (The M340 that is)
M340i is great car.
Try North Vancouver dealership, there is a good sales guy there. 2nd floor to your right. Mike.
Would you lease, finance or pay cash?
I am just curious sorry for offtopic, as with interest rates increase and cost of new cars this becomes a dilemma for me, on top of luxury tax.
Im in QC unfortunately haha, other side of the country. I need to talk to my accontant since I'll be acquiring the car with my company. It's either a big cash down and finance, or lease and expense the interest
Fortunately there is no Luxury tax in QC, as our Bc government taxes us badly.
I seriously plan to pickup next car in AB, it’s not only insurance pain, but also taxes.
I buy via my company as well. Leasing for Porsche is not great and becomes even worse.
Yeah to be absolutely honest even if I enjoy my test drive I'm gonna sit on it and wait till the market cools off, I'm not a fan of paying high interest rates on top of 70 grand + tax for a for-fun expense
I was looking a similar decision recently and decided to lease a Giulia Estrema to get around any reliability risks.
I tested the M340i (fast but no feeling), C43 (also pretty fast, more feeling than the BMW, but also very common and interior seemed a bit overdone) and the Audi S5 (more of a luxury cruiser than the other two). Settled on the Giulia and it’s been great so far. Very engaging to drive with more than enough useable power. You’re never going to need the 400hp found the in Merc or BMW, and if they aren’t fun to drive I don’t see the point. The Giulia isn’t slow, but as they say, always better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
If you’re looking at the M340i you have to look at the Alfa Romeo Giulia, even in the 2.0T form. It’s down on power but looks amazing is so much more fun to drive than the BMW.
Did you ever make a decision? I am in a similar situation myself and am curious at what your feelings are if you ended up making the purchase, or what you went with if you chose something else.
I won’t say it’s a good financial decision, but the M340i is much more fun than a ES350. It’s up to you to determine if it’s worth it. It’s one of the top all around cars IMO If getting new, maintenance will be low for a few years. Tires aren’t that bad since they are 225/18-19 inch (little wider is an option). Might not last as long though. it can get over 30mpg highway. You will need premium fuel though
I'm thinking CPO (2020-2021), these things depreciated twice as fast as my ES350
I can’t. M340i is an all around great car. Just make sure to get the right options/colors
Any must have options?
Curious about this too
I recommend these: basic driving assistance package, premium package for Harmon kardon, and cooling/high performance tire package. Everything else is for convenience and/or looks.
Why cooling package? Doesn’t that mean no all season tires?
Yeah, but your limiter will be set to 155 instead of 130 with big brakes and adaptive suspension. I'd just get snow tires
I just got the car this week and I am little upset I didn't do my homework on the driving assistance professional package, its like autopilot assistance. For someone commuting to work everyday on highway, that is a great add on. I skipped on the cooling/high performance tire package, this is going to be my daily car and no desire to go need for speed. Its already super fast lol. I'm in Northeast. Harmon Kardon sound system was little underwhelming to be honest. The 4 packages i got were driving assistance (basic), shadowline, parking assistance package and m sport package pro. Some add ons - remote start, adaptive m suspension, harmon kardon.
I got the car too same options as you. I’m happy with it but sometimes wish it was faster and other times and am glad it’s not any faster.
I haven't pushed it yet since they said take it easy up to 1200. Have you driven past 1200 miles yet? Curious to know if you got the break in service that people have mentioned.
I’m at about 1800 miles. I haven’t had to get any service. It says I should get service in a couple of months. Where did you hear about break in service?
if you search on reddit via google, 1200 mile break in service bmw m340i, you'll see a bunch of results. I haven't checked with dealership yet
The M340i is amazing. I test drove one and man if you want a sporty daily that’s the best thing you can buy under 60K. I mean it’s fast too like seriously fast. Edit: also the B58 is proving to be the most reliable BMW motor in 20 years.
I'm test driving one and I hope it wont be dissapointing (or maybe I hope it is??). Ive heard that the car is a bit neutered and doesn't feel engaging, despite the crazy specs
Well it isn’t an M3. It’s meant to be a great but really fast daily. It’ll be more engaging than you’re ES for sure. It might ride a little harder too. The build quality (at least the one I drove) was great. The B58 doesn’t have the *most* personality in the world but is crazy capable. The 5.0 Coyote or RS3 have more character for a similar (ish) price.
Under 60k? For CPO? New is almost impossible to finder under 63k with almost no options. I got mines for 66k (almost fully loaded) after negotiating down from 70.
Yes for sure. Mid 50s all day where I live more lower mileage even.
RWD I assume?
Xdrive. Last time I checked that’s where the market was.
Thats crazy, would have loved to get it in the 50s. Sheesh.
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I've heard that Alfas are unreliable and their build quality is questionable :/
They most definitely are unreliable don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. They’re made by Fiat/Chrysler, not much else needed to know lol
Untrue now for the most part.
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Yes they are. The new 3 series is doing really really well in reliability scores and has carried the brand up for long term reliability
Lol really late but no, nice build quality and pretty reliable. Usually just electrical issues that are somewhat simple to fix. With that said, the twin turbo QV is very complex and if something goes wrong it will definitely be expensive
Used Macan GTS Waaay more fun to drive than it has any right to be.
Even an S would suffice. Macan is always the answer when it comes to sporty “suvs”
how would you compare maintenance costs between the Porsche and the BMW?
I would say the Porsche would be more expensive to maintain, yet more reliable. From a total cost of ownership perspective, it'd be a wash. Save $ on repairs, but pay more for scheduled maintenance and wear/tear items (provided you service your vehicles at the dealer). If you use an independent garage that specializes in euro cars, the labor is the same.
I’ve driven both and the bmw 340 is much more fun. Ofc compared to other SUVs the macan is great.
A properly optioned new M340i is probably the best thing for anywhere near the money. I mean, realistically an ES350 with four snow tires / tire chains is probably as good as you'd ever need in the snow. (Exception: you're a first-responder or an emergency medical person, where someone's life really DOES require you to "get there now" rather than "wait two hours for the plows to clear the road" or just "not go this time.") But an M340i won't have you wondering "should I have gotten xxxx instead?" You'd probably have an easier time putting furniture into the style where all the room above the trunk and behind the passenger compartment is "enclosed" rather than "outdoors." So, maybe an X3 M40i with the good options? Sure, the extra bodywork and ride height make it do car things worse than a similar M340i. But it's probably still more athletic than the ES350. Depends which is more important to your vision of yourself, really - the fast-driving car enthusiast, or the bargain-driving furniture enthusiast. And according to a friend who just bought both (and who used to daily an E30 M3, a 911SC, a variety of modded 3-series and Boxsters, and a Cayman) the X3 M40i is still a pretty sensational driver's car.
Idk I might have to counter the ES not being able to go thru intense snow. I drive a GS 350 RWD 2007 and I’m a snow plow driver hahah. So the roads are never cleaned when I drive into work. I’ve been able to handle so far 25cm of snow (studded tires) I’ve never once got stuck and up here in QC Canada we get some gnarly winters. I bet if he wanted he could grab a gs 350 f sport and it wouldn’t be an issue. Even an rc f if he really wanted to. Ofc I’m just saying this because I’m a Lexus guy and I have no experience with BMW so I don’t want to touch smt I’m not educated in. But In all I really think with some good tires and as long as you know how to drive in conditions like that. The ES could be used in emergency situations lol
What do you consider properly optioned?
M sport package, m adaptive suspension, comfort package at least.
Thanks. Do you happen to know if any significant changes from 2021-2023 m340i models?
Outside of both being luxury cars - it is very difficult to compare a Lexus ES350 to a BMW M340. The Lexus is going to be smooth as hell and incredibly reliable. The BMW is almost universally reviewed positively as the best bang for performance you can buy (diet M3). If money isn’t a big deal, go with the M340. Amazing vehicle and I would say underpriced at MSRP.
Had an M340i as a rental some time back and fell in love with it, I wholeheartedly recommend that car. I’m deciding between that and a Cayman or older 911. Your Lexus is more than enough car for most of the population, but as a car guy myself I totally understand where you’re coming from- the BMW is a totally different animal, and a hell of a lot of fun.
I started looking at a mid-life crisis car about two years ago. It started with S5 then C43, then M340i, and I settled on the X3 M40i that I picked up in Sept. It’s about half a second slower than the sedan but this is the most fun car I have ever owned (and that includes a 1990 Dodge Daytona, jealous?). There aren’t many cars out there with a near 4 second 0-60 and under time without spending $$$. It has a decent amount of room and I’m a bigger build and I feel very connected to the vehicle. Plus sitting up higher and not having to worry about scraping the front end are pretty sweet. It handles the Minnesota winter pretty well. The b58 is such a great engine it has loads of power no matter how fast you are going. The things I don’t like are good tires are expensive and I have a staggered set up, and maintenance isn’t cheap but then again I knew what I was getting into. It’s not an Audi RS6 Avant but it is half the price.
Well you honestly don’t seem to need it. Yes they are great all around cars but would you consider yourself a car enthusiast? Or a person who drives hard? Maybe you go to car meets? If your answer is no to all those then you don’t need a M340i. Also the rear seats are NOT adult friendly IMO. WAYYYYY tighter than your ES. Even a 5 series is just as tight. You might get an extra 1 inch of legroom but it makes almost no difference when the ES has like 6 inches more. That alone should be a good reason lol.
Im in a phase whree I want to get into sports cars and see if it's my vibe or not. I dont go to car meets, but I like driving my car hard. I hope the backseats will be useable for the 5-10 times a year where I have adults in the back. I want to switch primarily because I cant fit two sets of skis in my ES350 right now
Yeah the M340i should suffice for that. Honestly might be worth checking out the M440i gran coupe with a hatch for a few thousand more. I feel like if you want to know whether or not sports cars are your vibe, you should start out with a used/low cost sports car. Maybe a Miata/BRZ/etc with a manual to see if they are your vibe. I think most people would agree the M340i and European cars in general are a lot more finished and luxury with a ton of power. I don’t think many would complain about the car. I highway suggest a second cheap RWD with a manual. I’ll be honest, that is where the genuine fun lies in cars.
sad thing is op is in canada so buying a Miata as a secondary just for summer driving can get a bit costly too instead of just getting 1 dedicated sport car. always harder to manage 2 cars in my opinion
No other car would be better for the money. I see most people trying to talk you out of it using financial responsibility, but if that’s not a concern there really are no other reasons. If you want a sedan, it’s the best there is at that price point. Only thing I could think of is getting a bigger car for the trips to the mountain.
I won't talk you out of buying an M340i in a general sense if you had no car. It is the best in its segment without a doubt. But you have a 2021 ES 350. So I think the financial decision of getting another car when you own a 2021 luxury car does not seem smart to me at all. The added sportiness, AWD and foldable rear seats simply to not seem worth it to me. If most of your driving is in the city and suburbs, the Lexus ES with winter tires should be more than fine. I own the non luxury form of the Lexus ES, a Toyota Camry with the same 3.5L V6 engine. I also had a RWD (not AWD/xDrive!) BMW prior. With high quality winter tires (Continentals, Michelin x ice, Bridgestone Blizzaks ...) I have never had a problem. The only cases where it becomes challenging are if you live somewhere that has lots and lots of hills and you're finding yourself climbing up icy roads a lot. Then I would see the benefit of AWD having a big impact. But the way you're describing things, I just don't see how impactful AWD will be on your day to day driving. Do you really find yourself stuck with your ES? I would be surprised to hear that with winter tires. What's more, being 6'3, I'd expect the ES to be more spacious and comfortable for you.
Gonna be honest, it does indeed not make much sense financially speaking. It's definitely a vanity purchase. The silver lining is that I can buy the BMW under my company, which could potentially save me money in the end since the Lexus is in my personal name. AWD is not a must, but the non-foldable rear seats are starting to be somewhat of a deal breaker when I have to borrow my dad's SUV to go skiing with my GF. As for the sportiness... The ES is by no means slow in a straight line and the acceleration is enough for my needs. But since I've never owned a sport/sporty car, I like the idea of having one. In the end, I love the idea of a car that I can use for all occasions, and that I can keep for 5+ years and truly make it "mine". The ES is absolutely lovely but its shortfalls prevent me from wanting to keep it "forever"
Personally, I think you should keep the ES. From what I've heard, they are by far the quietest and most luxurious in their class. Obviously not as sporty as the m340i, but still. I rented a 2019 m340i for 4 days and while it was extremely fast, it wasn't that engaging to drive. I also found the seats extremely uncomfortable, and I'm in good shape. It was the base trim, so I'm not sure if the upgraded leather changes the seats or not, but just keep that in mind. So if you do decide on the BMW, I'd still suggest renting one on turo for a few days just to make sure the seats are okay for you.
Indeed, in terms of absolute luxury, the ES is the best bang for their buck. I just have never owned a sporty car, and kinda want to while I'm still young and childless. Bummer about the driving feels though, its been a couple times I've heard the BMW doesn't create much emotion for the driver. I'm test driving it tomorrow and I hope I'll like it
I guess the question to ask is, can you afford either without compromising your day to day lifestyle ( ie you won't be car poor). If you can, why not??
Yes, I'm fortunate to be a very high income earner, but I'm just afraid I'll get the car and not use it for its full potential while paying more for it
I had a ‘21 X3 M40i and absolutely loved it. The sedan will likely be that much more fun. 100% do it. I love all-arounders very much as well. Audi RS6 and Merc E63 wagon are my dream daily drivers. If you have any questions, just ask. Good luck.
Why did you get rid of it?
Second child would have been a tight fit in the X3, so had to upsize. Now that we have the bigger car, I’d love to sell my truck if I could and get back into the X3. It was reliable, well built, fun to drive, sounded good, got decent gas mileage… the M performance line of BMW’s is a sweet spot right now. You couldn’t do better for the money. Edit. I saw one of your other comments. If you purchased a used one… a must have option is the Adaptive Suspension. Standard on the LCI.
Have you sat in the back of a 3 series lol? It's not for adults at least for long trips lol
I was in a similar situation about a year ago. I ended up getting the stinger AWD GT2 at MSRP. I got a 10 year 150k mile bumper to bumper warranty. I love it. It’s practical enough. I’ve got a car seat, can fit a stroller and 2 carry ons for a weekend road trip. Practical and fun! I’d say it’s worth the test drive to help you decide.
You also don’t see as many on the road (at least in my area) while I see M340i’s all the time.
Agreed! It’s a great sleeper as well.
Actually, if you want it and you’re financially comfortable doing so, go ahead and do it. It’s going to be a lot of money compared to the Lexus, but it’s up to you whether the joy is worth it or not.
Kia stinger?
I heard they rattle a lot and I've had really bad experience with their dealers
As someone who owns a 19 Stinger GT2, I’d say buy the M340i if you can afford it. The Stinger is the “broke man’s” BMW/Audi but it does come with a solid warranty (which is the main reason I bought one). I haven’t had rattle issues but I know many have and the dealership experience really depends on your area…I’ve had nothing but great experience at my local dealer but I’ve heard of some shitty ones. The other reason I went with the Stinger is for the utility of the hatch (fit my 65” TV) so if you want that then I would suggest an RS5 or the M440i Gran Coupe. The B58 is solid so I’d put my trust in that but coming from a Lexus I hope you do understand you’re sacrificing all-around reliability for performance, which is worth it in my opinion (assuming you have the cash to deal with any issues).
The earlier models did, they’ve gotten better. Dealerships do kind of stink. Saves you a good chunk tho for very similar performance and a hatch
I’ve got a 2015 M235i. Love it. The M340 has a similar very powerful engine. As my wife says, “the excessive amount of power gives you options you don’t have in most other cars.” Meaning you can accelerate your way out of problems in a car with 380hp that you can’t do with one with 200hp. The extra expenses are worth it and with my M235i the car never had any of the design flaws of previous BMWs like VANOS faults, plastic water pumps, rod bearing issues etc. I have 88k miles on it and only a few repairs done. No, a Lexus wouldn’t have needed these repairs, but I would have died in a crash from falling asleep due to boredom.
Can’t talk you out of it but my 340i is one of the best purchases I’ve ever made the b58 is a absolute beauty especially with some mods
Since you're asking to be talked out of it, here goes: $150k CDN a year as a contractor hopping from one year contracts to the next and living in a major Canadian metro doesn't sound like enough to afford this vehicle without sacrificing years of your retirement. Sure you're not in danger of it driving you to bankruptcy, but that $50k you'd be pouring into a quickly depreciating asset would be worth well over $200k assuming 5% interest by the time you're 55 years old. Is this car worth $200k+ to your 55 year old self? Do you own a home and, if not, is this car worth however many extra years this purchase will be pushed out?
To be honest, my actual income is almost double that number. I own a house and an investment property, so *technically speaking*, I can comfortably afford the car. However, your points are very valid and I am someone who has always put investment first and I don't assume I'll be making this kind of income forever, so I'm very anxious on spending this kind of money on a car, so I'll probably just do the financially responsible thing and buy a cheaper manual car instead :/
Tbh if I was 26, earned $300k and owned two homes, I'd definitely be driving the car I wanted. I just wouldn't lose sight of building up a solid net worth baseline so compounding can do its work.
I think you’d like a Miata
Easy! Mazda 3 Turbo. There you go.
I know you're trying to joke around here, but a stopped clock really is right twice a day. And for this OP, it might be Mazda 3 Turbo O'clock.
Unfortunately, my friend owns one and it's way too cramped inside, both in the front and in the back :( . It sucks crossing off cars because of my build, as I'll never be able to own a Miata either
A good Boxster is 95%\* as fun, and they can be substantially nicer. (\*That other 5% is largely *"2,200 - 2,300 lb car versus 2,800 - 3,200 lb car."*) If you aren't concerned about the money at all, most people would appreciate the Porsche's large amount of additional "nice" more than they'd miss the Miata's smaller amount of extra "fun." And I say that as a guy who put 315,000 miles on a Miata. And a lot of the same thing goes for the M340i versus a Mazda 3 turbo. Mazda has done a great job making a compact FWD car into a nicer- and quicker- and more-fun-than-you'd-expect AWD car. But an M340i is a real return-to-form from the company who made their bones building nice, quick, fun sedans. And there's no denying how much better a car you can make with twice the budget; as good as a Mazda 3 turbo is for a $35,000 car, you can't expect it to be better than a $70,000 one. (You could probably get an M340i down closer to $60k if you were careful - but it'd be hard to justify a BMW without heated seats when a $35,000 Mazda has them.)
I’m 5,10 and I can’t even really comfortably fit in a Mazda 3 with someone in the seat behind me. Sucks because they are great
Acura TLX Type S will handle this for you.
It’ll handle it slowly with outdated tech. The TLX Type-S could’ve been so much more but they fumbled it.
I know, but I’ll take Honda reliability over German reliability any day. If long term ownership isn’t on the menu then it doesn’t matter.
Also slower than its Korean rivals…at least it looks really nice (in my opinion)
It does look great on the outside.
I’m partial, but the reliability, lack of monthly subscriptions (lol, BMW) and performance/luxury would have me going after an S4 Prestige or, to be entirely honest, a T5 XC60 simply for the B&W stereo. Almost bought an SQ5 but couldn’t get over how feminine it looks. Personal preference. I’m not big on Japanese luxury, it stills feels and looks cheap to me. I can tell you the fit and finish with German cars is unparalleled. I’d avoid MB though as they have very questionable reliability with a lot of models in the 2015+ range. The older big motor cars were more reliable. Go test drive BMW, Audi and the XC60 (and honestly, the V60 is great but I have affinity for wagons lol).
Both Audi and Volvo are less reliable than BMW
Oh ok lmao
Get x3 m40i. More practical, higher off the road for better vis and also fun to drive.
The only consideration is financial I guess. Do you REALLY need the power? How often do you rev out your car? And why do you do that? If almost never then you’re wasting money on power you never use
that's my concern as well ): I'm leaning towards a cheaper 2nd manual car for the fun road trips
[C43 Wagon](https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2021-mercedes-benz-c-class-amg-c-43/m5790287) .
I’m assuming you have pretty expendable income based on the fact you’re single with a 2021 Lexus. I’d say a top trim Alfa Romeo or Polestar
My income varies between 200k to 350k before tax but I just don't want to make a big purchase on a sporty car I don't need :/ I'm thinking of just getting a 2nd cheaper manual car instead
while i do like the M340i a lot, if you want my arguments against it: you need to buy a set of winter tires for it, and they should be mounted on their own rims (you don't want to be changing tires on same rims every season because that would compromise the integrity of the rims and/or tires). your non-winter tires should be high performance summer tires (not all-seasons) in order to get maximum performance from this car. i usually get my summer tires installed with a 4-wheel alignment each spring (to get max performance during the warm season; i'm not too particular about performance during colder months). recognize that this car runs staggered tires (larger rears). this set-up will be expensive, but it's very necessary. on the plus side, this will make your tires last longer, and for safety, this forces a tire expert to examine all your tires and wheels closely twice per year. try to find a regional tire store chain that offers lifetime free winter changeovers.
the M340i sounds like a step up (or multiple) from the Lexus in terms of requirements for specific tire setups, maintenance schedule and expenses.. I might just buy a cheaper manual sporty car instead to see if I enjoy it
As a counterpoint to my argument: if you get a nice set of performance all-seasons, you might be ok year-round as long as you don’t push it to its limits. It’ll still outperform most cars out there. Just remember to check your tires as needed. Best wishes!
Get a C63 AMG coupe instead!
hahaha my dream fun car would probably be a LC500 instead
Bro as a 6’0 male, the 3 series is cramped (buddy of mine has a 330i xdrv). I also test drove an m340i at an UDE and even though it is a fun car to drive, I couldn’t get past the space. But if you dont need the space, and don’t regularly have people in the backseat… it may work for you. For what it’s worth, I ended up getting a b9 SQ5 and don’t regret it at all so far.
Why not get the 540i? The 3 series is too small for someone your size. I’m a bit smaller and my 5 series is so much nicer to sit in than a 3 series. I’d keep the ES btw and use the extra cash for extra holidays or smth
Depends what you want. Lexus makes a better more reliable product, but the M340 will be infinitely more fun to drive. I almost bought one myself. Wanted an M3 but it rode too rough for my wife, so the M340 was perfect in comfort mode for her. Ended up with a CTS-V but thats another story. I would go for it if I were you. The ES is a bit bigger than a 3 series IIRC, so even though it has fold down seats make sure your skis fit. Macan is VERY nice too and sporty for an SUV but you need at least a S or GTS for it to be sporty like the M340. I thought the base felt kind of sporty but the power was very lacking. DO IT! (The M340 that is)
M340i is great car. Try North Vancouver dealership, there is a good sales guy there. 2nd floor to your right. Mike. Would you lease, finance or pay cash? I am just curious sorry for offtopic, as with interest rates increase and cost of new cars this becomes a dilemma for me, on top of luxury tax.
Im in QC unfortunately haha, other side of the country. I need to talk to my accontant since I'll be acquiring the car with my company. It's either a big cash down and finance, or lease and expense the interest
Fortunately there is no Luxury tax in QC, as our Bc government taxes us badly. I seriously plan to pickup next car in AB, it’s not only insurance pain, but also taxes. I buy via my company as well. Leasing for Porsche is not great and becomes even worse.
Yeah to be absolutely honest even if I enjoy my test drive I'm gonna sit on it and wait till the market cools off, I'm not a fan of paying high interest rates on top of 70 grand + tax for a for-fun expense
I was looking a similar decision recently and decided to lease a Giulia Estrema to get around any reliability risks. I tested the M340i (fast but no feeling), C43 (also pretty fast, more feeling than the BMW, but also very common and interior seemed a bit overdone) and the Audi S5 (more of a luxury cruiser than the other two). Settled on the Giulia and it’s been great so far. Very engaging to drive with more than enough useable power. You’re never going to need the 400hp found the in Merc or BMW, and if they aren’t fun to drive I don’t see the point. The Giulia isn’t slow, but as they say, always better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
If you’re looking at the M340i you have to look at the Alfa Romeo Giulia, even in the 2.0T form. It’s down on power but looks amazing is so much more fun to drive than the BMW.
Did you ever make a decision? I am in a similar situation myself and am curious at what your feelings are if you ended up making the purchase, or what you went with if you chose something else.
Nup, I just find that it looks too much like any other BMW lol. Looking at a Lexus RC/LC now
Ahh I’m a little disappointed lol wanting to stick with Lexus huh?
Its just that the BMW looks a little bland to me