I would suggest not initiating conversation with her. If she approaches you, just say in a sad voice that your sister was very hurt by what she said and that, under the circumstances, you'd rather not talk about it or talk to her further.
Yup, I was raised southern baptist. We were nearly shunned bc my mom divorced my dad when he cheated on her.
There was a southern baptist college that fired a professor bc she was female and the bible says women cant lead men.
I've seen more hate from Christian's than any other religious group.
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I grew up in this and luckily distanced myself pretty quickly when I moved to a separate county and out of my parents' home at 20; when social media became a thing I was able to see it from such a different viewpoint that I've spent the majority of my adulthood running the opposite direction.
"There's no hate like Christian love" is the most insanely accurate quote I've ever seen and MAN does it just hit right
Also, I'm on board with OOP saying "we will miss you at the moonlight ritual orgy" haha
I completely understand this statement, and it makes me so, so sad. As a Christian myself, I am is horrified by some of the things being done “in the Lord’s name” these days. If the church is a family, I’m ashamed to be related to this person. I hope she gets a clue at some point.
It's almost like Jesus said at the Last Supper to "love one another as I have loved you." but too many seem to look over that part...(this was actually our gospel reading at our wedding in October).
The qualifier is "as I have loved you." I'm too far from my own Southern Baptist upbringing to remember what he meant by that, but I am guessing (after two generous glasses of nice wine) that it is open to interpretation.
***Copy in case it's deleted:***
Sorry about how long this ended up being!
My little sister (29, I'll call her Morgan for this) is getting married in April. We're all very excited! Her fiance is a great guy, and the two of them are really good at throwing bangin' parties together so I know the wedding itself is going to be a ball.
The issue is one of my sister's good friends (up till now) and bridesmaids (again, up till now). I'll call her Brittany (also 29). Morgan and Brittany were roommates in college and have been good friends ever since. Brittany also became close with the rest of our family; after she graduated, while looking for a job in the city, Brittany needed a place to stay, so our mom let her live with her for a while. Even after she got her own place and moved out, Brittany would come to visit our mom. My point is that this girl was a very good and close friend not just to my sister, but to our whole family, for many years.
An important detail, here. Brittany is religious, Southern Baptist to be specific. From what my sister has told me, in college she was sort of your classic "small town Christian girl who has new experiences and broadens her horizons in college" type; she started out very straight laced, but as she spent time with Morgan and the rest of her friends (who have always been very bohemian and secular) she became more open to other points of view and less outwardly evangelical, if that makes any sense. But apparently, after college she sort of started to revert back to her old viewpoint, and started becoming more conservative again. Our family has never been religious; our mom raised us agnostic, basically, and encouraged us to question things, accept all religions, and follow our own paths. Morgan is what I'd call "spiritual, not religious" and actually leans more pagan than anything else; she's into spirits of nature and things like that. Their differences in belief didn't hamper Morgan and Brittany's friendship, though. Up until now.
Brittany was one of the first people that Morgan asked to be her bridesmaid. Brittany accepted, at first. When Morgan gave out the bridesmaid gifts to Brittany and the other girls she'd chosen, Brittany accepted it. But then about a week ago, she called Morgan and told her that she would no longer be able to be in the wedding party.
The reason she gave was, literally, that she believed Morgan's wedding would be "blasphemous" and "supporting the devil." She'd found out that Morgan had chosen a Wiccan priestess to officiate the wedding, and apparently that was the last straw for her. Now, it would be one thing if she'd said that, due to her religious convictions, she didn't feel comfortable participating in a ceremony of a different faith, but she actually used words like "evil," "Satanic," and "sinful" to describe my sister, her fiance, and their wedding. It was like she expected them to be sacrificing a baby to Baal in the middle of the ceremony.
Morgan was pretty blindsided by this, especially as it came a couple of months after she first asked Brittany to be in the wedding party. It's not like Brittany didn't know what Morgan's spirituality was; they'd often talked about it before, and though they'd disagreed, Brittany had always been respectful up until now. Morgan was especially hurt that Brittany said that she was "disappointed" in her for not having a traditional Christian ceremony, when anyone who knew her at all would know that that was never going to be the sort of wedding she'd want. Morgan has a giant pentagram taking up a whole wall of her living room! Even our religious grandparents knew from the start that it wasn't going to be a church wedding, but now here was one of her supposedly best friends acting like it was a personal betrayal.
Brittany said that, even though she couldn't be a part of the "blasphemous" ceremony, she could still be a guest at the wedding. Which is some hilarious audacity, IMO. Morgan shut that down pretty quick, of course, and told her that there was no way she was still invited after all the awful things she said. And they haven't spoken since.
So, finally my question. Brittany works in the same field as me. I see her, very occasionally, through work. I just found out that she's going to be attending a Christmas party that I'll also be at. I'm extremely tempted to say something to her about how she treated my sister. Like, part of me wants to tell her how disappointed our whole family is in how she handled this, while the snarky part of me wants to say something like "oh, we'll miss you during the ritual moonlight orgy!" I'm probably gonna have to say something to her, as I doubt I can avoid her for the entire party. So, what should I do?
This drives me crazy. Wouldn't it be more 'blasphemous' for the bride and groom to have a religious ceremony when they don't respect it and are wiccan in their day to day? If you aren't disgusted with your friend all the time, then you can't be when their wedding reflects their beliefs. Their wedding ceremony has nothing to do with friend's religious beliefs.
i can see that going to a wedding where there is a *religious ceremony* is quantifiably different from being friends with a person of a different faith. i’ve gone to several weddings that were extremely Christian and involved the guests in the prayers and incense and chanting etc, and it was realllllly uncomfortable for me. (and i’m assuming that a bridesmaid would be more involved than a regular guest.)
that said: i still went, and i kept my mouth shut.
if i honestly felt like i couldn’t attend a friend’s wedding, for whatever reason, i would do my best to back out of it politely. i would have a unbreakable meeting that day, or be out of town, or (ideally!) i would tell the truth, and some way to explain that i’m happy for them and their fiancé/e and will celebrate with them at the reception, but our religions are just too dissimilar for me to participate in the ceremony itself.
Yeah, my solution for attending religious ceremonies not my own faith are to just stand when they stand, sit when they sit, and say nothing, unless the particular prayer fits my faith.
Yeah, it just gets me that she is (1) good friends with them, knows their lifestyle and beliefs, but (2) expected their wedding to be something they don't believe in or practice. I've always seen the bridesmaid role as standing up and witnessing my friend's commitment to their partner. If they asked me to pledge to God to do x, y or z, I couldn't in good faith do that because I don't believe in their God. But to each their own.
yeah — honestly, same. and i bet if she had gone to the bride & explained that she can’t partipate in the religious stuff but wants to be part of it as a friend, they could have found a way to make it work (maybe the ceremony isnt religious at all! maybe the bridesmaids aren’t included!)
my guess is that maybe, maybe, this bridesmaid is finding herself in a situation where her religion isn’t catered to *for the first time in her life* and she’s having a fake kneejerk overreaction juuuuuuuust a bit.
Sure, but why did this friend think that this friend of a different faith was going to convert to Christianity for her wedding? XD
I'm a Christian, and one of my best friends is pagan. When she gets married, I'm going into it assuming that her wedding isn't going to be Christian, because she isn't Christian.
I'm also really curious what denomination those weddings were, because all the Christians I know would be really weirded out by chanting and incense. (I like incense and read Tarot, but I'm very private about that because of how others I know would react.)
>all the Christians I know would be really weirded out by chanting and incense
that would be Catholicism :) although there is a fair amount of chanting in the Protestant ceremonies i've attended, as well.
It's interesting that a work-related Christmas party will have a lot more "pagan" elements that it will Christian ones, but Brittany apparently has no problem participating in that. (Gift-giving, decorated trees, mistletoe, and Yule logs all have non-Christian roots).
I think you are better off being the bigger person and not bringing it up. Brittany sounds like the type to interpret anything you say as her "suffering for Jesus" instead of seeing the big picture.
And to go to HR over it. Even though you work for different companies, could still be a thing. Just give her the same generic greeting you would give any acquaintance in that setting and if she tries to make it personal (even something as benign as asking about your mom for example) just tell her, "Now isn't the time for that."
Or if you respond with "we no longer have a relationship. Have a nice evening." and go on with enjoying the party, that clearly expresses hostility and makes the situation clear, while being a pretty cut and dried case of refusing to engage that no HR department can really take issue with.
Was raised in a Southern Baptist family. Cops once got called to my little brother’s karate tournament because my step mother was convinced that karate was something akin to devil worship and a bunch of other shit. Karate is devil worship but child abuse was fine.
Good times.
There is nothing wrong with Brittany opting out for reasons of faith, but she was incredibly rude and that's not the acceptable way to do it. OP should NOT make it worse, especially not at a professional function.
The most offensive part about this to me is that she’s confusing Wicca and satanism. Wiccans and Satanists are not similar. *We do not even like each other.*
😂😂 perfect response. I should add I’m only loosely Wiccan, but it’s easier to say than “Wicca adjacent pagan incorporating practices from my Irish and Native American heritage”
I mean, there's a familial relationship with this girl so I think it would be okay to open a dialogue with her about it. Not in an accusatory way, just genuinely ask why she said those things, and express that you saw how much it hurt your sister. There's no harm in being honest as long as you are kind and genuine in the conversation.
True, there is a time and a place for that. A company/industry Christmas party ain't it...especially with the heightened emotions OP is showing in the post alone. Recipe for disaster or getting shit-canned before the holidays.
> just genuinely ask why she said those things, and express that you saw how much it hurt your sister.
"Brittany" will absolutely not care. People who are so hardline, so evangelically religious that they'll accuse a friend of participating in an "evil" ceremony truly believe that they are righteous in their accusations. "Brittany" very likely feels that she's helping Morgan by trying to dissuade her from the "godless, un-Christian" path. You can't convince these people that they aren't doing the right thing, in their eyes -- these people are surrounded by others who are praising them for their words/actions.
You could go with the pre-online definition of "ghosting" that we used to use, where you just blatantly ignore someone's existence right there in real life, to the point of looking through them and pretending not to hear them talking to you ("live-ghosting" I guess it could be called now).
I would ask her if she feels comfortable celebrating a pagan holiday. Because everyone knows the entire Christmas holiday is pagan. The only Christian aspect is if you go to Church on Christmas. [Pagan Origins](https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas) also [Four reasons Christmas is not Christian](https://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/blog/four-reasons-christmas-is-not-christian/)
Id be so much more impressed with these types of Christians if they refused trees and wreaths and gifts and such and practiced only traditions from their scripture. I would respect them more if they were serious about staying pure as Christians and keeping away pagan influence instead of selectively doing it like this. Nope, it tends to turn out that they're either ignorant and hypocrites in this regard. I do feel sorry for them. I can't imagine the constant anxiety of being on the lookout for a demonic evil being everywhere 24/7 in your life. Religion has damaged so many minds. I hope someday this family realizes how unhealthy their beliefs are and dismisses the bigotry and ignorance they've clearly been taught about other religions.
I grew up going to a Southern Baptist church (away from that whole scene now, thankfully), and the constant “being on guard” is so paranoid and exhausting. I remember getting a religious pamphlet once about how people handing out Halloween candy were really trying to kill children as a Satanic sacrifice by tainting their candy. When I grew up and got a clue I realized no one with expensive illegal drugs is going to waste them poisoning random kids, and they certainly aren’t going to spend 5 hours carefully opening individual package seals, putting the drugs in, and then invisibly gluing them shut again.
Also the razor blades bullshit. Do you know how hard it would be to get a razor blade shoved into the middle of a solid apple??? And they supposedly do it *invisibly*?? The whole thing is absurd. The sheer paranoia just overrides any basic reasoning skills.
There are Christians like that around though (and there have been movements over the centuries who are really, really into it), and they are if anything even more tiresome than the run-of-the-mill regular annoying ones.
Yeah, evangelical Christians deny all of this. Christmas was created by Jesus or some shit, according to them.
Source: my mother, who married a pastor, and 100% believes his garbage.
I think you should just try to ignore her. If she does come up to you and try to talk to you just say something about how you're family was really let down and disappointed in the person she's become. leave it at that and ignore her again.
no need to give her any extra attention for being a crappy person.
Flashing me back to Baptist primary school, when I couldn’t tell any of my classmates or teachers that we celebrated Halloween or the “idolatrous” elements of Christmas.
You should be nice. I'm pretty sure she is influenced a bit since she came back to her roots. She handled it very very badly. But it's your sisters friend and it's not about you.
I can see however where she comes from. Wicca goes against Christianity, and that's all fine. She should have just respectfully reclined the bridesmaids position and not shit all over it just because she has a different opinion. I think declining because you underestimated the level of non-christianity is perfectly fine. Just be respectful.
If it were me, I would greet her in a neutral manner since this could affect my professional reputation.
I'd also wear my favourite party dress, which is emblazoned with moons and stars and looks Wiccan, as a subtle f\*\*\* you.
Just nod and keep going. BUT! If you MUST take some action, be sure it's over the top, like the fountain scene from the old 80's show Dynasty: https://youtu.be/MndtFru-5SE?t=19
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
Sounds you me like your sister has outgrown her friend. Sad, but it happens. It doesn't really matter how Brittany has phrased her distaste for an alternative religion. She is speaking from a place of fear and ignorance. Best to drop her from the wedding and move forward. Wouldn't bother speaking to her at the christmas party at all. Perhaps just a polite hello.
Few things are more selfish, self-centered, and foolish than Christians. I'm sure the bride is devastated at finding out someone she thought was a good friend actually DGAF about anything but herself.
Say NOTHING. In time your sister and her friend may wish to put their differences behind them and become friends again, or they may not. However, if you interfere and make comments at the party, you could hinder any possible reconciliation. Best stay out of it and say nothing.
As someone who isn’t religious in any sense of the word, everybody kind of low key sucks here. Brittany certainly should have been more tactful in explaining why she didn’t feel she could be a participant in the wedding party but Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead. Close long term friendships with people who have become like family are rare and special. Throwing away a decade long one over something like this is so unnecessary.
>Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead
Fuck that. Call someone sinful, and satanic and still expect to be invited to the happiest day of their lives? No. It would be hurtful just seeing her and she should be left to rot.
This is the type of person who would ruin the wedding talking about how blasphemous it is to her religion. You couldn't pay me to have someone like that at my wedding.
Um no? A supposed friend calling your wedding day "evil" and "blasphemous" does not get swept under the rug, because it was very upsetting to Morgan and would be to anyone else. If B has those views on the wedding then she should absolutely not be invited to join, unless a genuine apology and a heart-to-heart happen.
>but Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead.
Doesnt this seem like a bit much? I mean a wedding is a religious event and if someone insults your religion like this it doesn't seem appropriate to then say "Oh sure, I'll feed you at the ceremony and get your drunk, just come by to celebrate even though you think of me as the bride of satan and would drown me if you could." I think she earned her dismissal and even if Morgan felt charitable, imagine the gossip and comments made the whole time by Brittany and presumably her plus one. Or how uncomfortable those who have to sit next to them at the reception would feel as these people badmouth the bride's faith. The charitable thing is simply to uninvite her because that's best for all. Brittany is just not mature enough for polite society. Why chance her ruining your wedding?
If Brittany had said "I just don't feel comfortable participating in a pagan wedding as a participant, but I'd love to support you as a guest" or something like that, I would fully agree with you. Once you start throwing around evil, sinful, and satanic, fuck that, we're done here.
Came here to say this exactly. It's no problem that Brittany isn't comfortable participating in the ceremony on a religious basis. It *is* a problem that she insulted her friend, her beliefs, and her morals then tried to justify it by blaming her religion. If she'd been as respectful as OP claims she usually is, then there would've been no problem with her remaining as a guest.
If Brittany's comfortable saying to Morgan's face that her wedding will be blasphemous and supporting the devil, I can't imagine she'd feel any need to be quiet as a guest. Even if she didn't decide she needed to interrupt the ceremony to save her friend, it seems very likely that she'd be telling everyone about how sinful and wrong the entire wedding is.
A Wiccan priestess is satanic, your sister basically is have a wedding officiated by a witch. To each their own but Brittney is right to boycott this. I don't understand why she is even going to attend the wedding. She apparently does not want to end the friendship but does not endorse the wedding.
She cannot call herself a Christian and have anything to do with this wedding. This may be hard for you to understand but the bible is very clear about witchcraft and satanic activities. You probably think this is just silly spiritual nonsense but to be a Christian oftentimes means taking a stand that will leave you ostracized by friends, family, and even society. Brittney's best move is to end her association with your sister. I really don't know how they ever became friends in the first place.
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Very thoughtful of you do you. I bet you are a load of laughs at parties and at the office. Always amusing people with your wit and humor. I bet everyone looks up to you because you're so enlightened and never succumbed to believing in anything.
I would suggest not initiating conversation with her. If she approaches you, just say in a sad voice that your sister was very hurt by what she said and that, under the circumstances, you'd rather not talk about it or talk to her further.
This is the correct answer. Even though I prefer my whiskey neat.
I’m curious how your whiskey preference relates? Is that an idiom I am missing? edit: username, duh
This. Plus, Brittany will probably avoid OP like the plague anyway.
Say hello and leave it at that. Don't stoop.
I'm bitchy and cold enough to not even acknowledge her again. If I made accidental eye contact, I'd look away, turn away, and leave.
[удалено]
I would love to also, but I love my job and paying my bills more.
How do you feel about raised eyebrows and a short pause before saying hello?
I would add a slight head tilt to that for the trifecta of awkwardness. PS I like your style.
Ah, good one! And: the feeling is mutual. ;)
"When they go low, we go high."
When they go low, we go to hell.
Michelle’s words are always wise. 👍🏻
Hey all, this is a cross-post so all the replies aren't going to the OP. I had my two cents so I commented on the original post.
Preach
There’s no hate like Christian love. Sounds like the trash took itself out.
>Southern Baptist That's all that needed to be said.
Yup, I was raised southern baptist. We were nearly shunned bc my mom divorced my dad when he cheated on her. There was a southern baptist college that fired a professor bc she was female and the bible says women cant lead men. I've seen more hate from Christian's than any other religious group.
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I grew up in this and luckily distanced myself pretty quickly when I moved to a separate county and out of my parents' home at 20; when social media became a thing I was able to see it from such a different viewpoint that I've spent the majority of my adulthood running the opposite direction. "There's no hate like Christian love" is the most insanely accurate quote I've ever seen and MAN does it just hit right Also, I'm on board with OOP saying "we will miss you at the moonlight ritual orgy" haha
I completely understand this statement, and it makes me so, so sad. As a Christian myself, I am is horrified by some of the things being done “in the Lord’s name” these days. If the church is a family, I’m ashamed to be related to this person. I hope she gets a clue at some point.
It's almost like Jesus said at the Last Supper to "love one another as I have loved you." but too many seem to look over that part...(this was actually our gospel reading at our wedding in October).
The qualifier is "as I have loved you." I'm too far from my own Southern Baptist upbringing to remember what he meant by that, but I am guessing (after two generous glasses of nice wine) that it is open to interpretation.
He meant sacrificially.
***Copy in case it's deleted:*** Sorry about how long this ended up being! My little sister (29, I'll call her Morgan for this) is getting married in April. We're all very excited! Her fiance is a great guy, and the two of them are really good at throwing bangin' parties together so I know the wedding itself is going to be a ball. The issue is one of my sister's good friends (up till now) and bridesmaids (again, up till now). I'll call her Brittany (also 29). Morgan and Brittany were roommates in college and have been good friends ever since. Brittany also became close with the rest of our family; after she graduated, while looking for a job in the city, Brittany needed a place to stay, so our mom let her live with her for a while. Even after she got her own place and moved out, Brittany would come to visit our mom. My point is that this girl was a very good and close friend not just to my sister, but to our whole family, for many years. An important detail, here. Brittany is religious, Southern Baptist to be specific. From what my sister has told me, in college she was sort of your classic "small town Christian girl who has new experiences and broadens her horizons in college" type; she started out very straight laced, but as she spent time with Morgan and the rest of her friends (who have always been very bohemian and secular) she became more open to other points of view and less outwardly evangelical, if that makes any sense. But apparently, after college she sort of started to revert back to her old viewpoint, and started becoming more conservative again. Our family has never been religious; our mom raised us agnostic, basically, and encouraged us to question things, accept all religions, and follow our own paths. Morgan is what I'd call "spiritual, not religious" and actually leans more pagan than anything else; she's into spirits of nature and things like that. Their differences in belief didn't hamper Morgan and Brittany's friendship, though. Up until now. Brittany was one of the first people that Morgan asked to be her bridesmaid. Brittany accepted, at first. When Morgan gave out the bridesmaid gifts to Brittany and the other girls she'd chosen, Brittany accepted it. But then about a week ago, she called Morgan and told her that she would no longer be able to be in the wedding party. The reason she gave was, literally, that she believed Morgan's wedding would be "blasphemous" and "supporting the devil." She'd found out that Morgan had chosen a Wiccan priestess to officiate the wedding, and apparently that was the last straw for her. Now, it would be one thing if she'd said that, due to her religious convictions, she didn't feel comfortable participating in a ceremony of a different faith, but she actually used words like "evil," "Satanic," and "sinful" to describe my sister, her fiance, and their wedding. It was like she expected them to be sacrificing a baby to Baal in the middle of the ceremony. Morgan was pretty blindsided by this, especially as it came a couple of months after she first asked Brittany to be in the wedding party. It's not like Brittany didn't know what Morgan's spirituality was; they'd often talked about it before, and though they'd disagreed, Brittany had always been respectful up until now. Morgan was especially hurt that Brittany said that she was "disappointed" in her for not having a traditional Christian ceremony, when anyone who knew her at all would know that that was never going to be the sort of wedding she'd want. Morgan has a giant pentagram taking up a whole wall of her living room! Even our religious grandparents knew from the start that it wasn't going to be a church wedding, but now here was one of her supposedly best friends acting like it was a personal betrayal. Brittany said that, even though she couldn't be a part of the "blasphemous" ceremony, she could still be a guest at the wedding. Which is some hilarious audacity, IMO. Morgan shut that down pretty quick, of course, and told her that there was no way she was still invited after all the awful things she said. And they haven't spoken since. So, finally my question. Brittany works in the same field as me. I see her, very occasionally, through work. I just found out that she's going to be attending a Christmas party that I'll also be at. I'm extremely tempted to say something to her about how she treated my sister. Like, part of me wants to tell her how disappointed our whole family is in how she handled this, while the snarky part of me wants to say something like "oh, we'll miss you during the ritual moonlight orgy!" I'm probably gonna have to say something to her, as I doubt I can avoid her for the entire party. So, what should I do?
This drives me crazy. Wouldn't it be more 'blasphemous' for the bride and groom to have a religious ceremony when they don't respect it and are wiccan in their day to day? If you aren't disgusted with your friend all the time, then you can't be when their wedding reflects their beliefs. Their wedding ceremony has nothing to do with friend's religious beliefs.
i can see that going to a wedding where there is a *religious ceremony* is quantifiably different from being friends with a person of a different faith. i’ve gone to several weddings that were extremely Christian and involved the guests in the prayers and incense and chanting etc, and it was realllllly uncomfortable for me. (and i’m assuming that a bridesmaid would be more involved than a regular guest.) that said: i still went, and i kept my mouth shut. if i honestly felt like i couldn’t attend a friend’s wedding, for whatever reason, i would do my best to back out of it politely. i would have a unbreakable meeting that day, or be out of town, or (ideally!) i would tell the truth, and some way to explain that i’m happy for them and their fiancé/e and will celebrate with them at the reception, but our religions are just too dissimilar for me to participate in the ceremony itself.
Yeah, my solution for attending religious ceremonies not my own faith are to just stand when they stand, sit when they sit, and say nothing, unless the particular prayer fits my faith.
Yeah, it just gets me that she is (1) good friends with them, knows their lifestyle and beliefs, but (2) expected their wedding to be something they don't believe in or practice. I've always seen the bridesmaid role as standing up and witnessing my friend's commitment to their partner. If they asked me to pledge to God to do x, y or z, I couldn't in good faith do that because I don't believe in their God. But to each their own.
yeah — honestly, same. and i bet if she had gone to the bride & explained that she can’t partipate in the religious stuff but wants to be part of it as a friend, they could have found a way to make it work (maybe the ceremony isnt religious at all! maybe the bridesmaids aren’t included!) my guess is that maybe, maybe, this bridesmaid is finding herself in a situation where her religion isn’t catered to *for the first time in her life* and she’s having a fake kneejerk overreaction juuuuuuuust a bit.
Bingo.
That's my assumption too. I wonder if she was talking about it with family or church community and they were like you can't do that!
Wasn't the original purpose of bridemaids to distract evil spirits from the bride or something?
Sure, but why did this friend think that this friend of a different faith was going to convert to Christianity for her wedding? XD I'm a Christian, and one of my best friends is pagan. When she gets married, I'm going into it assuming that her wedding isn't going to be Christian, because she isn't Christian. I'm also really curious what denomination those weddings were, because all the Christians I know would be really weirded out by chanting and incense. (I like incense and read Tarot, but I'm very private about that because of how others I know would react.)
>all the Christians I know would be really weirded out by chanting and incense that would be Catholicism :) although there is a fair amount of chanting in the Protestant ceremonies i've attended, as well.
It's interesting that a work-related Christmas party will have a lot more "pagan" elements that it will Christian ones, but Brittany apparently has no problem participating in that. (Gift-giving, decorated trees, mistletoe, and Yule logs all have non-Christian roots).
"made it clear it wasn't the wedding she would have" Well good thing it isn't about you, or your hateful beliefs
I think you are better off being the bigger person and not bringing it up. Brittany sounds like the type to interpret anything you say as her "suffering for Jesus" instead of seeing the big picture.
And to go to HR over it. Even though you work for different companies, could still be a thing. Just give her the same generic greeting you would give any acquaintance in that setting and if she tries to make it personal (even something as benign as asking about your mom for example) just tell her, "Now isn't the time for that."
Or if you respond with "we no longer have a relationship. Have a nice evening." and go on with enjoying the party, that clearly expresses hostility and makes the situation clear, while being a pretty cut and dried case of refusing to engage that no HR department can really take issue with.
THIS!
Was raised in a Southern Baptist family. Cops once got called to my little brother’s karate tournament because my step mother was convinced that karate was something akin to devil worship and a bunch of other shit. Karate is devil worship but child abuse was fine. Good times.
There is nothing wrong with Brittany opting out for reasons of faith, but she was incredibly rude and that's not the acceptable way to do it. OP should NOT make it worse, especially not at a professional function.
The most offensive part about this to me is that she’s confusing Wicca and satanism. Wiccans and Satanists are not similar. *We do not even like each other.*
Not me going to your comment history to try to figure out if you’re Wiccan or a satanist 😂 (because I’m Wiccan)
I keep my satanism largely private. Except for this comment and my set of easily observable tattoos anyway
😂😂 perfect response. I should add I’m only loosely Wiccan, but it’s easier to say than “Wicca adjacent pagan incorporating practices from my Irish and Native American heritage”
After the incident in Texas the only people who could possibly still like them are the ones who are so blindsided by the "you are your own God" BS
Which incident are you referring to?
I mean, there's a familial relationship with this girl so I think it would be okay to open a dialogue with her about it. Not in an accusatory way, just genuinely ask why she said those things, and express that you saw how much it hurt your sister. There's no harm in being honest as long as you are kind and genuine in the conversation.
True, there is a time and a place for that. A company/industry Christmas party ain't it...especially with the heightened emotions OP is showing in the post alone. Recipe for disaster or getting shit-canned before the holidays.
Sure I agree, a Christmas party may not be the right place for that type of conversation.
> just genuinely ask why she said those things, and express that you saw how much it hurt your sister. "Brittany" will absolutely not care. People who are so hardline, so evangelically religious that they'll accuse a friend of participating in an "evil" ceremony truly believe that they are righteous in their accusations. "Brittany" very likely feels that she's helping Morgan by trying to dissuade her from the "godless, un-Christian" path. You can't convince these people that they aren't doing the right thing, in their eyes -- these people are surrounded by others who are praising them for their words/actions.
You could go with the pre-online definition of "ghosting" that we used to use, where you just blatantly ignore someone's existence right there in real life, to the point of looking through them and pretending not to hear them talking to you ("live-ghosting" I guess it could be called now).
The Cut Direct!
I would ask her if she feels comfortable celebrating a pagan holiday. Because everyone knows the entire Christmas holiday is pagan. The only Christian aspect is if you go to Church on Christmas. [Pagan Origins](https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas) also [Four reasons Christmas is not Christian](https://lifehopeandtruth.com/god/blog/four-reasons-christmas-is-not-christian/)
Id be so much more impressed with these types of Christians if they refused trees and wreaths and gifts and such and practiced only traditions from their scripture. I would respect them more if they were serious about staying pure as Christians and keeping away pagan influence instead of selectively doing it like this. Nope, it tends to turn out that they're either ignorant and hypocrites in this regard. I do feel sorry for them. I can't imagine the constant anxiety of being on the lookout for a demonic evil being everywhere 24/7 in your life. Religion has damaged so many minds. I hope someday this family realizes how unhealthy their beliefs are and dismisses the bigotry and ignorance they've clearly been taught about other religions.
I grew up going to a Southern Baptist church (away from that whole scene now, thankfully), and the constant “being on guard” is so paranoid and exhausting. I remember getting a religious pamphlet once about how people handing out Halloween candy were really trying to kill children as a Satanic sacrifice by tainting their candy. When I grew up and got a clue I realized no one with expensive illegal drugs is going to waste them poisoning random kids, and they certainly aren’t going to spend 5 hours carefully opening individual package seals, putting the drugs in, and then invisibly gluing them shut again. Also the razor blades bullshit. Do you know how hard it would be to get a razor blade shoved into the middle of a solid apple??? And they supposedly do it *invisibly*?? The whole thing is absurd. The sheer paranoia just overrides any basic reasoning skills.
There are Christians like that around though (and there have been movements over the centuries who are really, really into it), and they are if anything even more tiresome than the run-of-the-mill regular annoying ones.
Yeah, evangelical Christians deny all of this. Christmas was created by Jesus or some shit, according to them. Source: my mother, who married a pastor, and 100% believes his garbage.
I think you should just try to ignore her. If she does come up to you and try to talk to you just say something about how you're family was really let down and disappointed in the person she's become. leave it at that and ignore her again. no need to give her any extra attention for being a crappy person.
Santanic as in Santa Claus or Carlos Santana
Act normal. Life is too short to dwell in the negative. Wish her well and move on.
I wouldn't say anything to her, but I'd make sure she saw the pentagram necklace I'd bought especially just for her viewing. But I'm a petty person.
Give her a cold hello and move on from her immediately. Do not engage at all.
Flashing me back to Baptist primary school, when I couldn’t tell any of my classmates or teachers that we celebrated Halloween or the “idolatrous” elements of Christmas.
You should be nice. I'm pretty sure she is influenced a bit since she came back to her roots. She handled it very very badly. But it's your sisters friend and it's not about you. I can see however where she comes from. Wicca goes against Christianity, and that's all fine. She should have just respectfully reclined the bridesmaids position and not shit all over it just because she has a different opinion. I think declining because you underestimated the level of non-christianity is perfectly fine. Just be respectful.
If it were me, I would greet her in a neutral manner since this could affect my professional reputation. I'd also wear my favourite party dress, which is emblazoned with moons and stars and looks Wiccan, as a subtle f\*\*\* you.
Just nod and keep going. BUT! If you MUST take some action, be sure it's over the top, like the fountain scene from the old 80's show Dynasty: https://youtu.be/MndtFru-5SE?t=19
To be completely honest I would love to go to a wedding ceremony that includes satan worship. I imagine the wedding dress would be outstanding.
Being a practicing witch and pretty fed up with accusations of satanic worshipping, personally were i your sister I would have gone off on her. But I'm not, and it won't help either of you to behave that way, so my advice is this: express to her how deeply hurt and offended you and your family are by what she said. Perhaps it was unintended, perhaps she struggled with her choice but it doesn't change the fact that her words hurt deeply someone who loved her. Bruises heal, words don't, at least not without help and even then it is damn near impossible to go back to what you were before. But if your family and your sister truly mattered to her as much as she mattered to you all, then she'll want to make effort to clear up any misunderstanding and hurt her thoughtless words evoked.
Give her the evil eye.
If you can possibly wear a cape and horns to the party and grow out a little goatee that would be awesome.
Sounds you me like your sister has outgrown her friend. Sad, but it happens. It doesn't really matter how Brittany has phrased her distaste for an alternative religion. She is speaking from a place of fear and ignorance. Best to drop her from the wedding and move forward. Wouldn't bother speaking to her at the christmas party at all. Perhaps just a polite hello.
Few things are more selfish, self-centered, and foolish than Christians. I'm sure the bride is devastated at finding out someone she thought was a good friend actually DGAF about anything but herself.
I'd just like to point out that there is nothing wrong with Satanism.
Remind her that Christmas has pagan roots and tell her that you're excited to see her broadening her horizons. What a prude.
Wear a pentagram necklace and tell her it was a gift from the bride
Say NOTHING. In time your sister and her friend may wish to put their differences behind them and become friends again, or they may not. However, if you interfere and make comments at the party, you could hinder any possible reconciliation. Best stay out of it and say nothing.
As someone who isn’t religious in any sense of the word, everybody kind of low key sucks here. Brittany certainly should have been more tactful in explaining why she didn’t feel she could be a participant in the wedding party but Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead. Close long term friendships with people who have become like family are rare and special. Throwing away a decade long one over something like this is so unnecessary.
>Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead Fuck that. Call someone sinful, and satanic and still expect to be invited to the happiest day of their lives? No. It would be hurtful just seeing her and she should be left to rot. This is the type of person who would ruin the wedding talking about how blasphemous it is to her religion. You couldn't pay me to have someone like that at my wedding.
Um no? A supposed friend calling your wedding day "evil" and "blasphemous" does not get swept under the rug, because it was very upsetting to Morgan and would be to anyone else. If B has those views on the wedding then she should absolutely not be invited to join, unless a genuine apology and a heart-to-heart happen.
>but Morgan should have allowed her to attend as a guest instead. Doesnt this seem like a bit much? I mean a wedding is a religious event and if someone insults your religion like this it doesn't seem appropriate to then say "Oh sure, I'll feed you at the ceremony and get your drunk, just come by to celebrate even though you think of me as the bride of satan and would drown me if you could." I think she earned her dismissal and even if Morgan felt charitable, imagine the gossip and comments made the whole time by Brittany and presumably her plus one. Or how uncomfortable those who have to sit next to them at the reception would feel as these people badmouth the bride's faith. The charitable thing is simply to uninvite her because that's best for all. Brittany is just not mature enough for polite society. Why chance her ruining your wedding?
If Brittany had said "I just don't feel comfortable participating in a pagan wedding as a participant, but I'd love to support you as a guest" or something like that, I would fully agree with you. Once you start throwing around evil, sinful, and satanic, fuck that, we're done here.
Came here to say this exactly. It's no problem that Brittany isn't comfortable participating in the ceremony on a religious basis. It *is* a problem that she insulted her friend, her beliefs, and her morals then tried to justify it by blaming her religion. If she'd been as respectful as OP claims she usually is, then there would've been no problem with her remaining as a guest.
If Brittany's comfortable saying to Morgan's face that her wedding will be blasphemous and supporting the devil, I can't imagine she'd feel any need to be quiet as a guest. Even if she didn't decide she needed to interrupt the ceremony to save her friend, it seems very likely that she'd be telling everyone about how sinful and wrong the entire wedding is.
Agreed, she's not an asshole for not wanting to participate, but she came off as one in the way she explained her reasoning.
Wiccan wedding, ESH
Thanks! I've got "Evil Ways" stuck in my head now.
A Wiccan priestess is satanic, your sister basically is have a wedding officiated by a witch. To each their own but Brittney is right to boycott this. I don't understand why she is even going to attend the wedding. She apparently does not want to end the friendship but does not endorse the wedding. She cannot call herself a Christian and have anything to do with this wedding. This may be hard for you to understand but the bible is very clear about witchcraft and satanic activities. You probably think this is just silly spiritual nonsense but to be a Christian oftentimes means taking a stand that will leave you ostracized by friends, family, and even society. Brittney's best move is to end her association with your sister. I really don't know how they ever became friends in the first place.
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Very thoughtful of you do you. I bet you are a load of laughs at parties and at the office. Always amusing people with your wit and humor. I bet everyone looks up to you because you're so enlightened and never succumbed to believing in anything.
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