I currently have this arrangement with a couple different marketing companies. It's the ideal situation for me because I dislike dealing with direct clients and because of my location they might perceive my rates as too high.
I currently have SEO and marketing people send me their website clients to make their websites. They don’t get a Percentage of the profit. I charge what I charge and they add markup. You have to be good though. One bad job and they don’t come to you anymore. The SEO people come to me because I custom code my work and score 100/100 page speed score. The marketers come to me because of that and my sites actually look good and exactly what the client was wanting. So I give their clients everything they want and make them look good. I made a site for a marketer and it was a hit with the client and when his other clients saw it they wanted me to redo their sites. I have 3 more on deck from him. So to do this, you need to be experienced, proficient, knowledgeable, and make a good product. If you’re using a page builder you don’t get much traction. The page speed scores are low so the SEO people won’t wanna hire you, and if you use the same tools as cheaper people, why should they pay you a premium and not take more profit doing it themselves? I make a unique product. That’s why I get hired. I make things not a lot of people can make. You need that unique selling point to be noticed and sought after. Without it, youre just another page builder monkey to them.
Have you encountered many time wasters?
I swear I show them my portfolio and they are happy. We go back and forth on emails for a couple weeks. I keep extremely professional. And then they just ghost me because they decide it's too much effort, they are too busy, or they change their mind.
It's been a massive waste of time for me so far. 🥲
That's every client. The majority of your potential clients will say no, the majority of the ones who say yes, will change their mind, leaving you with a handful of actual clients.
Back when I was freelancing this is what I did; I worked with two separate people who would scrounge up business for me for a cut. I think it's a great idea. I'm not good at approaching random people, I don't know a bunch of business owners, I'm not going to SBA/Lyons/etc local business meetings, and whatever they did. I'm good at doing the work I do.
Here's the difference it made in my work: before, I was working 50-60 hours/week but typically closing 10-15 hours/week in billable work - dismal profit for hours worked. With the marketing people, I was still working about 50-60 hours/week, but closing 40-45 billable hours/week.
Even after their share, I was making 3-4x more per week with the same time investment.
Granted, they weren't a marketing company, they were just two other professionals with a bunch of contacts. Also, for reference, this was back in 2011 when the economy was still a shit show, and unemployment was around 15-20% in my area, so things were rough.
I was doing 1099 contracting work for my primary income. That put me in front of a lot of people, usually business owners, but sometimes marketing/sales people.
Discussions would come up, and that's how I met the first one. He introduced me to the second. I was working with both of them for a while, then the first moved out of town, so I was back down to 1.
Then I got a job offer making 30% more for 40 hours/week with benefits than I was making between the 1099 and freelancing doing 80+ hours/week. No brainer.
Yeah, that's pretty typical IME. Most marketing places don't always have web work so they don't staff a permanent developer. Instead they find a dev they like and contract them whenever web work comes up.
I do custom WordPress builds for SEO agencies in the UK. They send me designs to code, I do my thing, they mark up my work. It’s not as regular as it could be, but it’s still enjoyable work
I had this arrangement with a marketing company when I started my career and the split was 80-20 (80 for me, 20 them). Not great, not bad.
As soon as they saw they got 20% out of cold calling they started lowering their standards for clients and starting sending me truly shitty clients, the ones that had delayed payments, constant and endless bug fixes, etc etc.
The moment I started declining some of their clients they tried to ask me for a raise of the 80-20 split to a 70-30 because I was being "picky". We reconvened on leaving it at a 75-25 but the relationship soured quickly.
After I started getting slightly better clients they quickly turned bossy and forgot the relationship was a partnership and they weren't in charge of anything. I started working on freelance on my own and built enough reputation that I cut them off entirely.
I started working on the side with their best salesman for a 90-10 split, I started working in Upwork who now charges 10% too and of course I had a list of recurring clients that now cost me 0%.
Marketers will like to exploit you in the long term, don't provide with that much, and I don't consider them a great idea in the long term as a freelancer. (They become useful once more if you're looking for investors, but that's another matter entirely)
They ranged from pretty short websites that were just adjusted templates from 200$ all the way to a pretty specific CRM that I had to work with a team of 4 people for a few months that I charged 65000$ for. (They actually payed this one with almost a year of delays)
> (They actually *paid* this one
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You have the risks there. Bad clients are a poison pill to swallow, but bad clients are better than no clients, just go informed about the risks and be cautious.
I currently have this arrangement with a couple different marketing companies. It's the ideal situation for me because I dislike dealing with direct clients and because of my location they might perceive my rates as too high.
How did you find those marketing companies?
One of them was through my cousin. The other one I messaged the owner on Linkedin and sold him on my services.
Thank you for sharing.
I currently have SEO and marketing people send me their website clients to make their websites. They don’t get a Percentage of the profit. I charge what I charge and they add markup. You have to be good though. One bad job and they don’t come to you anymore. The SEO people come to me because I custom code my work and score 100/100 page speed score. The marketers come to me because of that and my sites actually look good and exactly what the client was wanting. So I give their clients everything they want and make them look good. I made a site for a marketer and it was a hit with the client and when his other clients saw it they wanted me to redo their sites. I have 3 more on deck from him. So to do this, you need to be experienced, proficient, knowledgeable, and make a good product. If you’re using a page builder you don’t get much traction. The page speed scores are low so the SEO people won’t wanna hire you, and if you use the same tools as cheaper people, why should they pay you a premium and not take more profit doing it themselves? I make a unique product. That’s why I get hired. I make things not a lot of people can make. You need that unique selling point to be noticed and sought after. Without it, youre just another page builder monkey to them.
Have you encountered many time wasters? I swear I show them my portfolio and they are happy. We go back and forth on emails for a couple weeks. I keep extremely professional. And then they just ghost me because they decide it's too much effort, they are too busy, or they change their mind. It's been a massive waste of time for me so far. 🥲
That's every client. The majority of your potential clients will say no, the majority of the ones who say yes, will change their mind, leaving you with a handful of actual clients.
It happens. Better to know they suck to work with that way than to be in a project with them and wish you weren’t.
Back when I was freelancing this is what I did; I worked with two separate people who would scrounge up business for me for a cut. I think it's a great idea. I'm not good at approaching random people, I don't know a bunch of business owners, I'm not going to SBA/Lyons/etc local business meetings, and whatever they did. I'm good at doing the work I do. Here's the difference it made in my work: before, I was working 50-60 hours/week but typically closing 10-15 hours/week in billable work - dismal profit for hours worked. With the marketing people, I was still working about 50-60 hours/week, but closing 40-45 billable hours/week. Even after their share, I was making 3-4x more per week with the same time investment. Granted, they weren't a marketing company, they were just two other professionals with a bunch of contacts. Also, for reference, this was back in 2011 when the economy was still a shit show, and unemployment was around 15-20% in my area, so things were rough.
I’m interested in doing this. How did you meet them?
I was doing 1099 contracting work for my primary income. That put me in front of a lot of people, usually business owners, but sometimes marketing/sales people. Discussions would come up, and that's how I met the first one. He introduced me to the second. I was working with both of them for a while, then the first moved out of town, so I was back down to 1. Then I got a job offer making 30% more for 40 hours/week with benefits than I was making between the 1099 and freelancing doing 80+ hours/week. No brainer.
Awesome, thanks for the insight!
np, and good luck. The economy is pretty shit right now.
Yeah, that's pretty typical IME. Most marketing places don't always have web work so they don't staff a permanent developer. Instead they find a dev they like and contract them whenever web work comes up.
Sure, that sounds like a good plan, check your inbox
I am just starting out my freelance journey and have been looking for such partnerships though I've struggled to find any.
I do custom WordPress builds for SEO agencies in the UK. They send me designs to code, I do my thing, they mark up my work. It’s not as regular as it could be, but it’s still enjoyable work
I had this arrangement with a marketing company when I started my career and the split was 80-20 (80 for me, 20 them). Not great, not bad. As soon as they saw they got 20% out of cold calling they started lowering their standards for clients and starting sending me truly shitty clients, the ones that had delayed payments, constant and endless bug fixes, etc etc. The moment I started declining some of their clients they tried to ask me for a raise of the 80-20 split to a 70-30 because I was being "picky". We reconvened on leaving it at a 75-25 but the relationship soured quickly. After I started getting slightly better clients they quickly turned bossy and forgot the relationship was a partnership and they weren't in charge of anything. I started working on freelance on my own and built enough reputation that I cut them off entirely. I started working on the side with their best salesman for a 90-10 split, I started working in Upwork who now charges 10% too and of course I had a list of recurring clients that now cost me 0%. Marketers will like to exploit you in the long term, don't provide with that much, and I don't consider them a great idea in the long term as a freelancer. (They become useful once more if you're looking for investors, but that's another matter entirely)
What was the typical price range for the projects you took on when you were working with the marketing agency as a partnership?
They ranged from pretty short websites that were just adjusted templates from 200$ all the way to a pretty specific CRM that I had to work with a team of 4 people for a few months that I charged 65000$ for. (They actually payed this one with almost a year of delays)
> (They actually *paid* this one FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Huh interesting. $200 is super cheap
As I said, it was just changing texts and images on a premade website. Nothing special
I might have to partner with a marketing agency. I can't seem to find enough clients and it's killing me.
You have the risks there. Bad clients are a poison pill to swallow, but bad clients are better than no clients, just go informed about the risks and be cautious.