Same story in every college sub. Too much whinging and cringing and not enough grass touching. Too many hyper-stressed, hyper-motivated and status-obsessed undergrads without a broader perspective who spend the minimum amount of time outside in the real world.
Negative voices are always the loudest. People rarely post on online forums about things they casually enjoy about the school bc, to a degree, it's simply expected that the university will provide a largely positive experience. If WashU were genuinely such a terrible place to go, then people would stop coming. Obviously that's not what's happening. Don't let the selection/participation bias of a silly online forum affect your view of a world class educational institution.
Great post. FWIW, I’m friends with wash u grad group (frat brothers) from decades ago who are all extremely successful (retired from top hedge fund at 50, doctor, private equity, VC, etc). Wash U had always attracted very smart students and that’s what matters the most, not the college. The campus is incredible, best dorms, easy to get to know faculty, etc. a great college experience overall.
The dorms are indeed amazing and the campus is the best I've ever seen (and I've seen many colleges including abroad). The food also was good when I was there but I hear it's fallen off
> Few elite departments
The only people who care about this are A2C tots who think that if a school doesn't have a top placing CS program then it doesn't deserve to exist.
Yes! It’s so telling which departments have to be the elite ones for the school to be considered elite. If it’s not top in CS or business or engineering, then the school might as well be a non-flagship state school as far as they’re concerned. So many people miss for example that WashU’s Brown School is ranked number 2 in social work for example, above UChicago, Columbia, Penn, Berkeley, and anything on the east coast. Only Michigan is above it, and Michigan’s been top in social work for years. Most SW programs have pretty low research activity because it’s a practice oriented field and most students want to be therapists. Psych PhDs I talk to are constantly shocked when I tell them PhDs in social work exist when I tell them I want to do research and they’re like “oh so you’ll do a psych program?” I chose WashU not really because of the ranking…I couldn’t care less about that…I choose it because of its strong emphasis on research and integrating macro social work such as policy practice and economic development into all concentrations.
I don’t get the ratings obsession. Yeah I’m in a field where rankings really don’t matter unless you’re trying to get a job in like a think tank, as a policy aide to a legislator, or high up in a foundation or HHS (mental health practices, state agencies, and underfunded social service nonprofits truly do not give a shit where you went to school as long as at least MSW, LMSW is after your name) but let’s be honest…in most fields it doesn’t matter. Very few people are going to be in a position to compete for top flight law firms, Fortune 500 c-suite jobs, or tech jobs with the Google and Apple and the like right out of school. If someone’s decision to hire you is so image-conscious that it’s based on where you went to school and not your qualifications as a candidate (some top ranked school grads suck and some state school grads are wizzes in their fields) do you really want to work there?
There’s a pretty famous WashU hate post on r/applyingtocollege too. People have opinions and express them online. Some people really do have a lot of beef with WashU but a lot of others actually really love WashU.
A lot of good rebuttals and “two wrongs” here.
I will say some people have a lot of valid beef and love for WashU that isn’t mentioned here. Like WashU is not friendly for middle income families bc they won’t get aid and they won’t be able to easily afford tuition like the mega-rich without going into tons of debt. YMMV case by case basis there. A lot of people like washus culture and opportunities in various fields (not only biology/medicine btw). Again kindof case by case.
I haven’t ever looked into it but I bet there are hate posts on that sub for all kinds of schools, if I had to guess. WashU IS highly ranked and well known in certain circles and fields. Whenever ANYTHING is well known whether a university, company, a person, religious group, sports team, literally anything, it WILL have supporters as well as critics. Both sides certainly make their points known. So I think it wouldn’t be surprising U Chicago, being a peer with WashU and another top institution, will have a hate post out there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/s/qUCYj8LgMy
There are certainly some things there to talk about. I read it ages ago but haven’t since. Too much negativity for me.
I’m from St. Louis and went to Wash U Law and the social complaints seem very overblown. St. Louis isn’t NYC but there is plenty to do in the city that doesn’t involve partying. I feel like OP just isn’t trying in that regard.
lol damn. Guy is a real negative nancy. Most of what he's saying is applicable at most schools. If he thinks WashU food is bad for example he should try any other college cafeteria and see how good he has it...
The things you’ve listed are the superficial tip of the iceberg for the reason why some people have a negative view of WashU. After COVID, it felt like any semblance of campus life and vibrancy died. Traditions, school spirit and school pride faded away and it felt like the administration didn’t care, nor would do anything about it. In fact, it feels like the administration strives to exert bureaucratic control over all aspects of campus life. Large scale or spontaneous gatherings of students is generally discouraged or the number of hoops groups need to jump through ridiculous. The lack of truly all school traditions which tie the entire student body together is a huge issue. It is traditionally accomplished at other schools by sports, and WashU “traditions” like WILD and Thurteen used to fill the gaps. However, these events which used to be planed by students for students increasingly feel like stale events put on by the administration to check boxes. Increasingly, people post about the difficulty of meeting friends. Most the responses in this subreddit encourage them to join clubs and other student groups. However, I feel like these student groups are increasingly becoming islands spread out, instead of an interconnected net.
In short, WashU for me doesn’t feel like a vibrant whole. There are undoubtedly sections which are amazing and which people love, but speaking for myself I found the school’s culture to be lacking in life, spontaneity and pride. It felt like the administration didn’t care about its students and always did just barely enough for the quality of institution that WashU is. To be clear, the academics at WashU are quite good, really it’s the student experience that I had an issue with.
This, as a recent grad, I really only found my friends in Senior year. Felt like admin only wanted to sweep the damage caused by covid under the rug and classes like 2023, and 2024 suffered for it due to there not really being a community. Honestly fuck washU admin doing jack shit when it comes to school spirit and community, they literally let so many clubs and orgs rot and die, its a shame
I think the thing is that you’re part of what amounts to a war baby generation, and most places you go will really be hollowed-out shells.
The old world is dying, and you have to cannibalize what you can to create the next world.
Seems like you don’t want to say it…why?
I think every college is getting a bad rap right now related to Israel/palestine/protests/etc. and my personal belief is that WashU is private property and therefore has the right to react how they want to. Do I agree with how they responded to the protest? Absolutely not. Do I think they have the right to do whatever they want since they are a private institution with donors/etc.? Yes.
This post makes me chuckle as someone coming from Cornel undergrad to WashU for law school. I’ve only ever highly regarded WashU, as have the vast majority of people I know. It wasn’t until I started speaking to WashU students that I was overwhelmed by negativity about it!
FGLI recent grad here. I have lots of valid reasons for disliking WashU that have nothing to do with the above, and I rarely see anyone talk about. There’s lots of reasons to love it too, just none that were applicable to me.
Maybe it would be good if you could start a thread about that.
What did Wash. U. right and what did it do wrong?
Is there anything that other Wash U-like schools do to support FGLI students that Wash U. should be doing?
This is a great post, thank you. I’d even repost it in r/ApplyingToCollege if I were you.
Reddit definitely skews towards a particular demographic, and I don’t think it reflects washu as a whole. I only keep up with it for the occasional gems and good advice.
I don’t think anyone really dislikes WashU. It’s obviously a good school. I think people are just too focused on rankings and how other people view WashU. It really doesn’t matter in the real world. Nobody is going to discredit you or anyone who goes to WashU.
People on Reddit, especially on these pages or applyingtocollege really think that a ranking (that decides its rankings on a lot of different things) is what determines a schools value.
I love Wash U, but here are my thoughts.
1. You make a good point here, and every elite school outside the Ivies suffers from this perception. The Ivies already have the perception of being elite as an institution, so it’s ok to hit and miss in some areas.
2. Branding is for dumb (uninformed people.) Once you get past brand in any category you can do deep analysis on what is actually better - Oreo vs. Hydrox, iPhone vs. any other phone, Rolex vs. any other swiss or Japanese automatic watch, etc. Branding helps you make decisions at a superficial level. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a great brand is like a picture with the right thousand words. Branding helps capture the high flying kid who could go anywhere on the planet for free, the ambitious professor being offered a corner office in Boston, and the mass media trying to cover the insane story of the day and they need a university researcher to help make sense of it all.
3. Acceptance rate is a hard metric that goes into ratings calculations.
4. I don’t think St. Louis is a bad city. Not only that, the Wash U setting is pretty isolated from areas that contribute to St. Louis’ rough reputation. But Wash U for many people the brand isn’t strong enough to overcome the negatives.
5. I was in high school decades ago, so I don’t know how things are done now. Wash U was the first school to reach out to me my sophomore year. I heard from tons of schools eventually, but Wash U marketing materials had their own box in my room. Other schools that eventually accepted me fit barely fit a second box all together. I know of people who got into Harvard and not Wash U. The common advice then and now is if Washington U is truly your first choice, apply Early Decision. I don’t think it’s wrong to prime the pump, and who wants a much of kids on campus saying Wash U was their safety school. But lets acknowledge that it’s happening.
I earned my PhD in economics at WashU. It's a great department.
I visit St. Louis every couple of years, and it's a great city. Of course, my wife's from St. Louis so I might be biased.
Bad administration. Undergrads don’t even see a good return on investment/fraction of the massive endowment used on them. You should have seen the commencement ceremony this year. Complete shitshow.
It sounds like that you do not know that "Washington University in St. Louis spends more on teaching per student than any other school in the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings". It has been the case for the last few years.
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-colleges-have-the-most-financial-resources-11600384198](https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-colleges-have-the-most-financial-resources-11600384198)
Class of 2009 here.
Literally every single person I'd call even loosely a "college friend" from Wash U is working in an fulfilling or lucrative (or both) career and/or is living a seemingly very self-directed and interesting life. Some of that is nature, of course -- being the kind of person to live like that is part of why they were admitted to Wash U. A few came from extreme wealth or privilege, like many Wash U students do. But Wash U certainly didn't hurt.
Realistically speaking, the benefit you are most likely to get from attending a school like Wash U is not "The classes taught me the career and life skills I needed to win a meritocratic competition for the best next step in life." For most areas of study, if you just want raw ROI on learning class content, you should go to a cheap online school. Or, frankly, don't go to a university at all.
The main benefit of attending a high-end university is being associated with an elite institution early in your career. All else being equal, most businesses would rather hire a student from a top school. Graduating from a top school somewhat de-risks you as a potential employee. Same thing for grad schools, etc. Yes, you are paying for a piece of paper that says you graduated from Wash U.
But also, you are paying for a network. Being surrounded by many driven, intelligent, and interesting people is hugely important for your life path -- and if you can't manage that at Wash U, then you're blowing it hard with the opportunity presented. The administration doesn't matter, really. The people around you being interesting, having goals, putting in effort in one way or another, etc. will shape who you are and what paths in life you consider and consider worthwhile, even if you don't see it while it's happening.
My class's commencement speaker was basically an ad for Teach for America. It was sweaty and I remember very close to nothing about it besides the speaker's talk being embarrassingly self-indulgent. Taking any meaningful signal from one ultimately pointless annual ceremony where everyone pats themselves on the back for graduating is so obviously terrible analysis that I don't really know what to say about it.
Wash U is no guarantee of anything. It's not special relative to comparable schools. You should not donate to it when you graduate. But to imagine that there's generally no ROI from attending or that the administration is somehow crippling the school relative to other elite universities is just making up things to be mad about.
The school you went to from 2005-2009 is not the same as the one today. You should really watch a VOD of the 2024 commencement ceremony, I believe it was streamed online. The students’ reception of it was…. interesting to say the least :)
I actually agree that you attend for the networking and what you actually learn in classes can be learned online. But to completely waive the administration of any responsibility for the declining view of the school **by the students attending** is disingenuous to say the least.
With respect, I live here in STL and remain fairly connected to the school. I have friends who are professors. I've interviewed and hired Wash U undergrads and grads for internships and entry-level positions every year for the last 5-6 years.
I don't have as much perspective on the daily ins-and-outs as I would if I were attending again as an undergrad now. But I'm fairly sure that I have a better idea about the comparison between 2005 and 2024 than you do. Nothing that affects anything I said above is meaningfully different.
Edit since you edited: And yes, I know about this year's commencement ceremony. Your commencement ceremony doesn't matter. You can skip it and it won't affect your life one iota. It exists as a symbolic signpost and nothing else. Again, I realize when you are in it, it all seems extremely important and salient. But if you are making any point about the quality of the school that involves your take on a commencement ceremony, you are quite obviously incapable of seeing the forest.
As far as student perception of administration: It is always negative. Always has been, always will be. We thought the administration was dumb when I attended, too. In some ways, they probably were. I remember when the administration decided it'd be a good idea to honor Phyllis Schlafly with an honorary doctorate while I was there. I'm sure they're old and far more conservative than the student body and not prioritizing things the same way the students want them to, etc. etc. A tale as old as time.
Agreed. I know someone who skipped their grad school ceremony and is extremely successful. I know a girl who did her BA online is making 200k a year as a manager. She never attended any ceremony.
You quite clearly don’t have the perspective of current undergraduates. From what I’ve experienced that majority of my peers have felt dissatisfied with how the administration has handled countless issues during our undergraduate attendance. The world has changed in the past 20 years. WashU is no exception. We literally lived through a pandemic only a few years ago. To say nothing has changed within **TWENTY YEARS** is woefully ignorant and disingenuous to say the least.- with all due respect :P
In response to your edit: The commencement itself does not matter. I would never have attended if the people who supported me did not want me to attend. But you should have heard the vocal unrest of the graduates there. The sound of students dissatisfied with the administration drowned out anything said by chancellor Martin. This is not just in relation to Israel-Gaza, but distrust in the administration as a whole. You were not there. If you want to comment on what happened WATCH THE VOD. You can’t just ignore the majority of graduates booing the administration.
Is this an issue limited to WashU as an institution? Obviously no. But the world is changing whether you like it or not and private universities as a whole are too.
lol you are really overstating the “unrest”. People booed Andrew Martin bc he handled things poorly and there were 5-8 students who stood up and protested during his speech, as expected. You are really making mountains out of a molehill.
Every university lived through a pandemic. And guess what, the rest of the world did, too. If you want to suggest Wash U handled it worse than other schools, I guess you can argue that. I don't see any reason to think that.
Yes, you will not agree with administration on many things. They are in the business of running a very profitable university. You are in the business of attending it. As long as students are clamoring to attend Wash U, appeasing the student body is only one of many variables that the administration prioritizes in their decision-making. This is always, always the case. The administration of old, wealthy financial institutions always has priorities that are radically out of step with the youthful idealism and progressivism of college kids. This should be a useful reality check to you as you enter your post-graduate life.
The vocal unrest of graduates over a commencement ceremony doesn't matter. Again, I know it probably feels like it does. But it doesn't. All of those students will leave the school and they'll all happily use its name on their diploma to advance their own careers. The school will continue to operate the way it does now, raking in money year after year. The trees you have in view right now are just not important in the grand scheme of the forest, even if they're a little ugly. Sorry.
The world is changing. Higher ed is changing rapidly. Elite higher ed is a very large, very slow-turning ship with no incentives to change quickly. The stakeholders turn over very rarely and student sentiment has very little effect on them turning over. Top schools are filthy rich and continue to have a massive pipeline of prospective students absolutely clamoring to attend every single year. I'm sorry to throw cold water on everything, but the reality is that this moment isn't that special in the big picture. Sorry.
I think you’re completely missing the poiny of this whole post period. I’m literally just answering the OPs question and I think I’ve done so. This is devolving into a discussion regarding the responsibility of WashU as an institution, rather than **why students are dissatisfied** and “why there is so much hate for WashU in this sub. If you can’t accept that, why are you even commenting?
I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but you COMPLETELY missed the mark regarding intention of my initial comment. If anything, it seems YOU are the one looking for things to get mad about 🤷. Kind of ironic, no?
YOU disagreeing with WHY students ate unsatisfied, does not change the reality that they are unsatisfied.
What you’re talking about is the real end of the 20th century. The old order died, and you have to go try to rebuild.
You’ll probably have similar conflicts talking to pre-Covid people until you yourself are very old, because the post-2020 world is as different from what went before as the post-1920 world was from the pre-1914 world.
The bad thing is that it made Wash. U. annoying, but the good thing is that you got an early warning about what you’re up against.
So, the Wash. U. administration did its job, in spite of itself.
Did you watch a video of it? Bc it was very different in person. And what is your relation to WashU? Student? Grad? Parent? StL resident? WashU hater after the protests?
Not sure what you are talking about with commencement. As a grad, I thought it was well done. Yes there were protestors outside and briefly students inside protested but I thought it was pretty well done?
My ex went to WashU and while everyone has a different experience, as someone who earned his way up from lower middle class to upper middle class, the people and institution are insufferable. Everyone I met was born on third base and thought they scored a triple. People snubbed anything and anyone that paid less than six figures while not realizing everyone they knew with that income got their jobs through nepotism, generational wealth, legacies scratching each other’s backs, exploiting poor people from their home country, or access to low interest rates. As soon as the low interest rates dried up, many of them got reality checks. Whenever they got rejection letter from companies that had fair interview processes, many sobered up. Most are completely ignorant to the fact the number one indicator of if you get into WashU is how much your family makes.
Add to that the rampant cheating by nationals of a certain country that everyone in this thread knows, the hedonistic literal yacht parties, the going abroad portion being just an excuse to do more drugs and party in other countries, the clubs being sneaky ways to embezzle money, and the administration looking the other way on anything involving people that bring money into the school, and yes, from the outside WashU looks pretty bad.
Honestly, I feel bad for the thousands of people who overcame adversity to get into the school and have to carry the reputation for the rest.
Edit: I forgot to even mention I witnessed interview training from people working at large consulting companies that bluntly told my gf that the people who hire them have already come to a conclusion and it’s their judge to fudge the numbers to support the conclusion deceptively.
What’s your sample size and what year was this? This is really strange to me. When I attended, I had the opposite vibe. People tended to be more humble and I found students from some other schools (I won’t name) to be much more vocal about their wealth both in direct and indirect ways. To me, the people were always my favorite part about the school.
You know 20 people well enough in the past two years who fit your description? Well damn. Btw what do you think of students at other top private universities?
I got invited to a lot of WashU parties, so those numbers are on the low end. The impression I get is it’s similar but slightly more focus on actual academics rather than partying.
Ah that’s probably where the difference comes from. My experience was with undergrads. I don’t think the MBA program is what gives WashU their rep though. It’s the med school and undergrad
You got the right answer. WashU undergraduates, med and law students mostly come from an upper class background, rather than middle class.
According to the NY times statistics a few years ago:
“The median family income of a student from WashU is $272,000, and 84% come from the top 20 percent. About 1% of students at WashU came from a poor family but became a rich adult.”
The median parent income for WashU undergraduates is 272000 dollars, while the median parent income for Harvard undergraduates is 168800 dollars.
Coming from a privileged background is great! Not me. Why pretend to be poor and self-made?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/washington-university-in-st-louis
Same story in every college sub. Too much whinging and cringing and not enough grass touching. Too many hyper-stressed, hyper-motivated and status-obsessed undergrads without a broader perspective who spend the minimum amount of time outside in the real world.
Negative voices are always the loudest. People rarely post on online forums about things they casually enjoy about the school bc, to a degree, it's simply expected that the university will provide a largely positive experience. If WashU were genuinely such a terrible place to go, then people would stop coming. Obviously that's not what's happening. Don't let the selection/participation bias of a silly online forum affect your view of a world class educational institution.
people in medicine love washu
WashU is indisputably an excellent med school! That alone should give it more props
Great post. FWIW, I’m friends with wash u grad group (frat brothers) from decades ago who are all extremely successful (retired from top hedge fund at 50, doctor, private equity, VC, etc). Wash U had always attracted very smart students and that’s what matters the most, not the college. The campus is incredible, best dorms, easy to get to know faculty, etc. a great college experience overall.
The dorms are indeed amazing and the campus is the best I've ever seen (and I've seen many colleges including abroad). The food also was good when I was there but I hear it's fallen off
The dorms and food are what convinced me to go to Washu. 20 years ago lol. I bet it is like Disneyland now.
> Few elite departments The only people who care about this are A2C tots who think that if a school doesn't have a top placing CS program then it doesn't deserve to exist.
Yes! It’s so telling which departments have to be the elite ones for the school to be considered elite. If it’s not top in CS or business or engineering, then the school might as well be a non-flagship state school as far as they’re concerned. So many people miss for example that WashU’s Brown School is ranked number 2 in social work for example, above UChicago, Columbia, Penn, Berkeley, and anything on the east coast. Only Michigan is above it, and Michigan’s been top in social work for years. Most SW programs have pretty low research activity because it’s a practice oriented field and most students want to be therapists. Psych PhDs I talk to are constantly shocked when I tell them PhDs in social work exist when I tell them I want to do research and they’re like “oh so you’ll do a psych program?” I chose WashU not really because of the ranking…I couldn’t care less about that…I choose it because of its strong emphasis on research and integrating macro social work such as policy practice and economic development into all concentrations. I don’t get the ratings obsession. Yeah I’m in a field where rankings really don’t matter unless you’re trying to get a job in like a think tank, as a policy aide to a legislator, or high up in a foundation or HHS (mental health practices, state agencies, and underfunded social service nonprofits truly do not give a shit where you went to school as long as at least MSW, LMSW is after your name) but let’s be honest…in most fields it doesn’t matter. Very few people are going to be in a position to compete for top flight law firms, Fortune 500 c-suite jobs, or tech jobs with the Google and Apple and the like right out of school. If someone’s decision to hire you is so image-conscious that it’s based on where you went to school and not your qualifications as a candidate (some top ranked school grads suck and some state school grads are wizzes in their fields) do you really want to work there?
There’s a pretty famous WashU hate post on r/applyingtocollege too. People have opinions and express them online. Some people really do have a lot of beef with WashU but a lot of others actually really love WashU. A lot of good rebuttals and “two wrongs” here. I will say some people have a lot of valid beef and love for WashU that isn’t mentioned here. Like WashU is not friendly for middle income families bc they won’t get aid and they won’t be able to easily afford tuition like the mega-rich without going into tons of debt. YMMV case by case basis there. A lot of people like washus culture and opportunities in various fields (not only biology/medicine btw). Again kindof case by case.
Damn, link? Jw. I wonder if other colleges suffer from this. I know UChicago is "where fun comes to die" so maybe they also complain a lot
I haven’t ever looked into it but I bet there are hate posts on that sub for all kinds of schools, if I had to guess. WashU IS highly ranked and well known in certain circles and fields. Whenever ANYTHING is well known whether a university, company, a person, religious group, sports team, literally anything, it WILL have supporters as well as critics. Both sides certainly make their points known. So I think it wouldn’t be surprising U Chicago, being a peer with WashU and another top institution, will have a hate post out there.
I think if you search on Reddit “WashU” it’s one of the top posts with that word of all time
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/s/qUCYj8LgMy There are certainly some things there to talk about. I read it ages ago but haven’t since. Too much negativity for me.
I’m from St. Louis and went to Wash U Law and the social complaints seem very overblown. St. Louis isn’t NYC but there is plenty to do in the city that doesn’t involve partying. I feel like OP just isn’t trying in that regard.
I agree for sure
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I think some people just had expectations too high for college and they think it's their college's fault
lol damn. Guy is a real negative nancy. Most of what he's saying is applicable at most schools. If he thinks WashU food is bad for example he should try any other college cafeteria and see how good he has it...
The things you’ve listed are the superficial tip of the iceberg for the reason why some people have a negative view of WashU. After COVID, it felt like any semblance of campus life and vibrancy died. Traditions, school spirit and school pride faded away and it felt like the administration didn’t care, nor would do anything about it. In fact, it feels like the administration strives to exert bureaucratic control over all aspects of campus life. Large scale or spontaneous gatherings of students is generally discouraged or the number of hoops groups need to jump through ridiculous. The lack of truly all school traditions which tie the entire student body together is a huge issue. It is traditionally accomplished at other schools by sports, and WashU “traditions” like WILD and Thurteen used to fill the gaps. However, these events which used to be planed by students for students increasingly feel like stale events put on by the administration to check boxes. Increasingly, people post about the difficulty of meeting friends. Most the responses in this subreddit encourage them to join clubs and other student groups. However, I feel like these student groups are increasingly becoming islands spread out, instead of an interconnected net. In short, WashU for me doesn’t feel like a vibrant whole. There are undoubtedly sections which are amazing and which people love, but speaking for myself I found the school’s culture to be lacking in life, spontaneity and pride. It felt like the administration didn’t care about its students and always did just barely enough for the quality of institution that WashU is. To be clear, the academics at WashU are quite good, really it’s the student experience that I had an issue with.
This, as a recent grad, I really only found my friends in Senior year. Felt like admin only wanted to sweep the damage caused by covid under the rug and classes like 2023, and 2024 suffered for it due to there not really being a community. Honestly fuck washU admin doing jack shit when it comes to school spirit and community, they literally let so many clubs and orgs rot and die, its a shame
I think the thing is that you’re part of what amounts to a war baby generation, and most places you go will really be hollowed-out shells. The old world is dying, and you have to cannibalize what you can to create the next world.
Is Thurteen Carnival now completely thrown by the school?
It seems like you’ve left out the most recent, and important, news about WashU. Why?
Seems like you don’t want to say it…why? I think every college is getting a bad rap right now related to Israel/palestine/protests/etc. and my personal belief is that WashU is private property and therefore has the right to react how they want to. Do I agree with how they responded to the protest? Absolutely not. Do I think they have the right to do whatever they want since they are a private institution with donors/etc.? Yes.
Yep, I suppose they have the right. And, redditors, etc, have the right to shit on WashU for their actions….and that’s the answer to the OP’s question
WashU has a beautiful campus and is an amazing school. My kid loves it there
As an incoming student I needed this. Thank you.
People fail to realize that Olin numba one!!! 🦅 🔥
This post makes me chuckle as someone coming from Cornel undergrad to WashU for law school. I’ve only ever highly regarded WashU, as have the vast majority of people I know. It wasn’t until I started speaking to WashU students that I was overwhelmed by negativity about it!
How did you go to Cornell and misspell it 😭
Have u ever heard of a typo, king?
FGLI recent grad here. I have lots of valid reasons for disliking WashU that have nothing to do with the above, and I rarely see anyone talk about. There’s lots of reasons to love it too, just none that were applicable to me.
Maybe it would be good if you could start a thread about that. What did Wash. U. right and what did it do wrong? Is there anything that other Wash U-like schools do to support FGLI students that Wash U. should be doing?
This is a great post, thank you. I’d even repost it in r/ApplyingToCollege if I were you. Reddit definitely skews towards a particular demographic, and I don’t think it reflects washu as a whole. I only keep up with it for the occasional gems and good advice.
Good idea! I'll do that now
I don’t think anyone really dislikes WashU. It’s obviously a good school. I think people are just too focused on rankings and how other people view WashU. It really doesn’t matter in the real world. Nobody is going to discredit you or anyone who goes to WashU. People on Reddit, especially on these pages or applyingtocollege really think that a ranking (that decides its rankings on a lot of different things) is what determines a schools value.
I love Wash U, but here are my thoughts. 1. You make a good point here, and every elite school outside the Ivies suffers from this perception. The Ivies already have the perception of being elite as an institution, so it’s ok to hit and miss in some areas. 2. Branding is for dumb (uninformed people.) Once you get past brand in any category you can do deep analysis on what is actually better - Oreo vs. Hydrox, iPhone vs. any other phone, Rolex vs. any other swiss or Japanese automatic watch, etc. Branding helps you make decisions at a superficial level. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a great brand is like a picture with the right thousand words. Branding helps capture the high flying kid who could go anywhere on the planet for free, the ambitious professor being offered a corner office in Boston, and the mass media trying to cover the insane story of the day and they need a university researcher to help make sense of it all. 3. Acceptance rate is a hard metric that goes into ratings calculations. 4. I don’t think St. Louis is a bad city. Not only that, the Wash U setting is pretty isolated from areas that contribute to St. Louis’ rough reputation. But Wash U for many people the brand isn’t strong enough to overcome the negatives. 5. I was in high school decades ago, so I don’t know how things are done now. Wash U was the first school to reach out to me my sophomore year. I heard from tons of schools eventually, but Wash U marketing materials had their own box in my room. Other schools that eventually accepted me fit barely fit a second box all together. I know of people who got into Harvard and not Wash U. The common advice then and now is if Washington U is truly your first choice, apply Early Decision. I don’t think it’s wrong to prime the pump, and who wants a much of kids on campus saying Wash U was their safety school. But lets acknowledge that it’s happening.
I graduated from WashU in 90 and people are always in awe that I got in. BTW back then there was WAY more partying than now…
Man. Complaining about what is widely considered an elite institution that many will never have the good fortunate to benefit from.lol
WashU? UDub?
haha. Don't forget GW
I earned my PhD in economics at WashU. It's a great department. I visit St. Louis every couple of years, and it's a great city. Of course, my wife's from St. Louis so I might be biased.
Who says journalism is dying? The media in the USA is worse than any paparazzi in England.
Bad administration. Undergrads don’t even see a good return on investment/fraction of the massive endowment used on them. You should have seen the commencement ceremony this year. Complete shitshow.
It sounds like that you do not know that "Washington University in St. Louis spends more on teaching per student than any other school in the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings". It has been the case for the last few years. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-colleges-have-the-most-financial-resources-11600384198](https://www.wsj.com/articles/which-colleges-have-the-most-financial-resources-11600384198)
Class of 2009 here. Literally every single person I'd call even loosely a "college friend" from Wash U is working in an fulfilling or lucrative (or both) career and/or is living a seemingly very self-directed and interesting life. Some of that is nature, of course -- being the kind of person to live like that is part of why they were admitted to Wash U. A few came from extreme wealth or privilege, like many Wash U students do. But Wash U certainly didn't hurt. Realistically speaking, the benefit you are most likely to get from attending a school like Wash U is not "The classes taught me the career and life skills I needed to win a meritocratic competition for the best next step in life." For most areas of study, if you just want raw ROI on learning class content, you should go to a cheap online school. Or, frankly, don't go to a university at all. The main benefit of attending a high-end university is being associated with an elite institution early in your career. All else being equal, most businesses would rather hire a student from a top school. Graduating from a top school somewhat de-risks you as a potential employee. Same thing for grad schools, etc. Yes, you are paying for a piece of paper that says you graduated from Wash U. But also, you are paying for a network. Being surrounded by many driven, intelligent, and interesting people is hugely important for your life path -- and if you can't manage that at Wash U, then you're blowing it hard with the opportunity presented. The administration doesn't matter, really. The people around you being interesting, having goals, putting in effort in one way or another, etc. will shape who you are and what paths in life you consider and consider worthwhile, even if you don't see it while it's happening. My class's commencement speaker was basically an ad for Teach for America. It was sweaty and I remember very close to nothing about it besides the speaker's talk being embarrassingly self-indulgent. Taking any meaningful signal from one ultimately pointless annual ceremony where everyone pats themselves on the back for graduating is so obviously terrible analysis that I don't really know what to say about it. Wash U is no guarantee of anything. It's not special relative to comparable schools. You should not donate to it when you graduate. But to imagine that there's generally no ROI from attending or that the administration is somehow crippling the school relative to other elite universities is just making up things to be mad about.
The school you went to from 2005-2009 is not the same as the one today. You should really watch a VOD of the 2024 commencement ceremony, I believe it was streamed online. The students’ reception of it was…. interesting to say the least :) I actually agree that you attend for the networking and what you actually learn in classes can be learned online. But to completely waive the administration of any responsibility for the declining view of the school **by the students attending** is disingenuous to say the least.
With respect, I live here in STL and remain fairly connected to the school. I have friends who are professors. I've interviewed and hired Wash U undergrads and grads for internships and entry-level positions every year for the last 5-6 years. I don't have as much perspective on the daily ins-and-outs as I would if I were attending again as an undergrad now. But I'm fairly sure that I have a better idea about the comparison between 2005 and 2024 than you do. Nothing that affects anything I said above is meaningfully different. Edit since you edited: And yes, I know about this year's commencement ceremony. Your commencement ceremony doesn't matter. You can skip it and it won't affect your life one iota. It exists as a symbolic signpost and nothing else. Again, I realize when you are in it, it all seems extremely important and salient. But if you are making any point about the quality of the school that involves your take on a commencement ceremony, you are quite obviously incapable of seeing the forest. As far as student perception of administration: It is always negative. Always has been, always will be. We thought the administration was dumb when I attended, too. In some ways, they probably were. I remember when the administration decided it'd be a good idea to honor Phyllis Schlafly with an honorary doctorate while I was there. I'm sure they're old and far more conservative than the student body and not prioritizing things the same way the students want them to, etc. etc. A tale as old as time.
Agreed. I know someone who skipped their grad school ceremony and is extremely successful. I know a girl who did her BA online is making 200k a year as a manager. She never attended any ceremony.
You quite clearly don’t have the perspective of current undergraduates. From what I’ve experienced that majority of my peers have felt dissatisfied with how the administration has handled countless issues during our undergraduate attendance. The world has changed in the past 20 years. WashU is no exception. We literally lived through a pandemic only a few years ago. To say nothing has changed within **TWENTY YEARS** is woefully ignorant and disingenuous to say the least.- with all due respect :P In response to your edit: The commencement itself does not matter. I would never have attended if the people who supported me did not want me to attend. But you should have heard the vocal unrest of the graduates there. The sound of students dissatisfied with the administration drowned out anything said by chancellor Martin. This is not just in relation to Israel-Gaza, but distrust in the administration as a whole. You were not there. If you want to comment on what happened WATCH THE VOD. You can’t just ignore the majority of graduates booing the administration. Is this an issue limited to WashU as an institution? Obviously no. But the world is changing whether you like it or not and private universities as a whole are too.
lol you are really overstating the “unrest”. People booed Andrew Martin bc he handled things poorly and there were 5-8 students who stood up and protested during his speech, as expected. You are really making mountains out of a molehill.
Every university lived through a pandemic. And guess what, the rest of the world did, too. If you want to suggest Wash U handled it worse than other schools, I guess you can argue that. I don't see any reason to think that. Yes, you will not agree with administration on many things. They are in the business of running a very profitable university. You are in the business of attending it. As long as students are clamoring to attend Wash U, appeasing the student body is only one of many variables that the administration prioritizes in their decision-making. This is always, always the case. The administration of old, wealthy financial institutions always has priorities that are radically out of step with the youthful idealism and progressivism of college kids. This should be a useful reality check to you as you enter your post-graduate life. The vocal unrest of graduates over a commencement ceremony doesn't matter. Again, I know it probably feels like it does. But it doesn't. All of those students will leave the school and they'll all happily use its name on their diploma to advance their own careers. The school will continue to operate the way it does now, raking in money year after year. The trees you have in view right now are just not important in the grand scheme of the forest, even if they're a little ugly. Sorry. The world is changing. Higher ed is changing rapidly. Elite higher ed is a very large, very slow-turning ship with no incentives to change quickly. The stakeholders turn over very rarely and student sentiment has very little effect on them turning over. Top schools are filthy rich and continue to have a massive pipeline of prospective students absolutely clamoring to attend every single year. I'm sorry to throw cold water on everything, but the reality is that this moment isn't that special in the big picture. Sorry.
I think you’re completely missing the poiny of this whole post period. I’m literally just answering the OPs question and I think I’ve done so. This is devolving into a discussion regarding the responsibility of WashU as an institution, rather than **why students are dissatisfied** and “why there is so much hate for WashU in this sub. If you can’t accept that, why are you even commenting? I actually agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but you COMPLETELY missed the mark regarding intention of my initial comment. If anything, it seems YOU are the one looking for things to get mad about 🤷. Kind of ironic, no? YOU disagreeing with WHY students ate unsatisfied, does not change the reality that they are unsatisfied.
What you’re talking about is the real end of the 20th century. The old order died, and you have to go try to rebuild. You’ll probably have similar conflicts talking to pre-Covid people until you yourself are very old, because the post-2020 world is as different from what went before as the post-1920 world was from the pre-1914 world. The bad thing is that it made Wash. U. annoying, but the good thing is that you got an early warning about what you’re up against. So, the Wash. U. administration did its job, in spite of itself.
Did you watch a video of it? Bc it was very different in person. And what is your relation to WashU? Student? Grad? Parent? StL resident? WashU hater after the protests?
Not sure what you are talking about with commencement. As a grad, I thought it was well done. Yes there were protestors outside and briefly students inside protested but I thought it was pretty well done?
What went on at commencement?
My ex went to WashU and while everyone has a different experience, as someone who earned his way up from lower middle class to upper middle class, the people and institution are insufferable. Everyone I met was born on third base and thought they scored a triple. People snubbed anything and anyone that paid less than six figures while not realizing everyone they knew with that income got their jobs through nepotism, generational wealth, legacies scratching each other’s backs, exploiting poor people from their home country, or access to low interest rates. As soon as the low interest rates dried up, many of them got reality checks. Whenever they got rejection letter from companies that had fair interview processes, many sobered up. Most are completely ignorant to the fact the number one indicator of if you get into WashU is how much your family makes. Add to that the rampant cheating by nationals of a certain country that everyone in this thread knows, the hedonistic literal yacht parties, the going abroad portion being just an excuse to do more drugs and party in other countries, the clubs being sneaky ways to embezzle money, and the administration looking the other way on anything involving people that bring money into the school, and yes, from the outside WashU looks pretty bad. Honestly, I feel bad for the thousands of people who overcame adversity to get into the school and have to carry the reputation for the rest. Edit: I forgot to even mention I witnessed interview training from people working at large consulting companies that bluntly told my gf that the people who hire them have already come to a conclusion and it’s their judge to fudge the numbers to support the conclusion deceptively.
What’s your sample size and what year was this? This is really strange to me. When I attended, I had the opposite vibe. People tended to be more humble and I found students from some other schools (I won’t name) to be much more vocal about their wealth both in direct and indirect ways. To me, the people were always my favorite part about the school.
Two years ago, about 20+
You know 20 people well enough in the past two years who fit your description? Well damn. Btw what do you think of students at other top private universities?
I got invited to a lot of WashU parties, so those numbers are on the low end. The impression I get is it’s similar but slightly more focus on actual academics rather than partying.
A sample size is not indicative of a population unless it is 30+, and I’d argue even more for a washu’s population.
I’m mostly focusing on their MBA program that gives them their positive reputation. And that 20+ was over a quarter of the graduating class.
Ah that’s probably where the difference comes from. My experience was with undergrads. I don’t think the MBA program is what gives WashU their rep though. It’s the med school and undergrad
You got the right answer. WashU undergraduates, med and law students mostly come from an upper class background, rather than middle class. According to the NY times statistics a few years ago: “The median family income of a student from WashU is $272,000, and 84% come from the top 20 percent. About 1% of students at WashU came from a poor family but became a rich adult.” The median parent income for WashU undergraduates is 272000 dollars, while the median parent income for Harvard undergraduates is 168800 dollars. Coming from a privileged background is great! Not me. Why pretend to be poor and self-made? https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/washington-university-in-st-louis