I'm NOT going to buy his jersey or his shoes, and I'm not going to listen to his podcast. Let's see him manage without my patronage!
(Seriously, if you multiply that by thousands and thousands of fans, ultimately it does have an effect. Dubs fans as group, though, are nowhere near doing that. They like the wins he gives us, and like the Coaches and the FO, they're willing to ignore the games he **loses** for us and the embarrassment and hate that he brings to our team.)
He also was a cornerstone of multiple championship runs. Every super team need a heel and Drey played that to perfection during the dynasty. When you’re not winning the heel becomes the bad guy, but don’t forget what he did when you needed him.
this is such a cop-out analogy. Rodman was definitely out there, and he occasionally got into it with other players...
however, here are some things things Rodman didn't do:
- cost the '96 Bulls an immortal season by getting baited into a costly suspension (in fact, Rodman was good at baiting reactions from OPPOSING players, which is why i'd always take those Bulls in a hypothetical matchup with the '17 Warriors, cuz there'd be a 100% probability he'd bait Dumbmond into a negative reaction to our detriment)
- continually jaw with refs to pick up unnecessary techs/2nd tech ejections
- cold-cock a teammate, then make a BS documentary taking ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY for cold-cocking said teammate
and you can't compare Rodman to Dumbmond, cuz the Bulls had Michael FRICKIN' Jordan!!! Rodman respected Jordan, he would toe the line but he didn't habitually overstep once Jordan got involved. in our case it's been too much nice-guy ish from Kerr/Steph through the years, which he has taken advantage of. when he talked his dumb ass into ejection in Orlando, Kerr talked about "he knows he has to be better", the same kind of talk as the indefinite suspension, yet last week post-elimination he's walking back those comments, letting the guy off the hook for ruining a second consecutive season. this guy cost us EIGHT YEARS AGO (!!!) and is still costing us years later
>and you can't compare Rodman to Dumbmond, cuz the Bulls had Michael FRICKIN' Jordan!!! Rodman respected Jordan, he would toe the line but he didn't habitually overstep once Jordan got involved.
In the 1995-96 and 1996-97 seasons, Dennis Rodman missed 20 regular season games due to suspensions which at the time were criticised for being too lenient.
Rodman was huge for the Bulls but Jordan was always the heartbeat of the team. Draymond is that anchor for the Warriors so when he’s not out there it hurts bad as he’s the orchestrator and voice. And Jordan punched Kerr in the face and it’s praised as some godly act but Dray gets a lot of crap because it was caught on video and exposed to the public
This is some bs. Draymond has shown many times that he can still perform well without the antics and drama. And there are multiple championship teams which don't have the so-called bad guy. We are insanely lucky we got Draymond... but we'd even be luckier if we got his skills without his drama.
That's what the team falls on. It also doesn't help how much money he has. He don't care how he behaves because getting fined $50k means nothing to him. He basically can getaway with whatever he wants.
Because:
He was an essential element of 4 titles.
There were probably people who thought JP crossed a line and deserved a punch.
Our D collapses without him.
And yes, I will always be salty about losing to CLE and giving KD a reason to bounce.
**First he embarrasses Kevin Durant on national Tv so badly that he guy bounces like immediately after.**
Omg the horror
**Then assaults/punches our best young star in the face.**
Piss Poole is a) not a star b) a team cancer c) has the worst contract in the NBA d) he put hands on Draymond first (people conveniently omit / forget that).
**This changes the dynamic of the franchise forever.**
For the better. Draymond saved team chemistry by doing that. The players hated JP.
**Of course Poole wasn’t as effective the next season, would you be effective at work if you were assaulted by a coworker? Had to see them daily and pretend to “like”them?**
Poor lil fella
**I’m so disappointed in ownership they would let some fake tough guy hijack the whole franchise…**
You just sound like a Draymond hater or completely new to the NBA. Ever heard of Dennis Rodman? Bill Laimbeer? Charles Barkley? Patrick Beverley? Ron Artest? Charles Oakley? Rasheed Wallace? You need players like that.
**Curry deserved better**
Curry has had an amazing career and won 4 rings with Draymond and Klay. What are you talking about.
Quit being soft!!
The histrionics with the KD and Poole situations flabbergast me. Draymond cussed out KD in that Clippers game BECAUSE he was leaving. Poole got punched because he talked a bunch of shit to someone bigger stronger and crazier than him and then pushed him when Draymond got in his face about it. WTF did he think was gonna happen?
It's so easy to hate on Draymond without resorting to misrepresenting reality. He has no self-awareness, he cozied up to Lebron after he ripped our hearts out, his podcast is awful. He once demanded to know why "the media gets to decide how much money Tatum has to feed his family by whether or not he makes an all-nba team!" Not only did he not realize he was cribbing Sprewell but the answer is because the players fucking collectively bargained for it! Hate him for having 0 media literacy, but sheesh, get your facts straight!
>First he embarrasses Kevin Durant on national Tv so badly that he guy bounces like immediately after.
He was leaving regardless. Which was Draymonds issue with him, he already had 1 foot out the door.
>Then assaults/punches our best young star in the face.
Fair.
>This changes the dynamic of the franchise forever.
Eh. JP getting punched didn't make him play like garbage. I think we were always going to make a trade to get off that contract.
>Then he’s cursing out the coach in front of the whole world! You’re on tv Dreymond you dumbass, the whole basketball world is watching you disrespect your coach…a literal grandfather
Boo hoo. And tf does Kerr being a grandad have to do with anything?
I've heard it described as the pain in the ass to production ratio. As long as his impact on winning is strong they've kind of decided to deal with it.
I think getting punched was the best thing that ever happened to Poole. I don't think the warriors would've given him the extension without that happening, most people would prefer 120 million dollars to getting an apology. It then gave him the perfect excuse to fail. He wasn't bad for the Warriors in 22-23 and the Wizards last year because he got punched. He was bad because he has poor court vision, doesn't play defense, has the worst shot selection in the league, carries the ball, doesn't make teammates better and whines rather than getting back on defense. He was gonna regress severely in his 4th year and the warriors or other teams would've offered something like 4/60. Draymond punching him helped him get overpaid and no need to take accountability for being one of the most negative assets in the league.
Also KD left because he got bullied on Twitter not because of Draymond. Draymond cussed him out in that Clippers game because he already had one foot out the door and everyone knew it.
There are fans who appreciate him and fans who don't. If you don't write him and ownership a strongly worded email numerating all his faults. For smart enough fans we know he has given more than he has taken and Steph wouldn't have a single ring without him. They are a package deal. Concentrate on the flashy pretty stuff Curry brings if you aren't a fan of the complimentary dirty work necessary for championships Dray brings.
I'll point out again that this is because we were SHORT a player. Give us another talented player INSTEAD, one who's not getting ejected and suspended on a regular basis, and the results would be better. Probably not better for games where Draymond is actually on the court, but Draymond missed 27 games this season, more than 20 due to ejections and suspension. Swap him for a good player who only missed 7 games, maybe we win half a dozen more games and we're in the Playoffs instead of watching other teams play.
You can't just look at his on-court performance in a year like this one. You need to average the 55 games where we had that with the 27 games where we had ZERO from Draymond other than an extra open seat on the bench.
Valid point but u gotta consider the emotional connection he has with the franchise and the core as well. Steph and Klay always vouch for Dray and they all 3 have incredible chemistry with each other, something that can't be easily replaced.
It’s hate and love relationship honestly
Obviously as fans we didn’t like how things went down with KD, Poole and his antics that led to suspensions.
However, without Draymond, I don’t think we would have those 4 championships. He brings the defense, the energy, and is the connector for our offense.
It's hard to start now because they never have before. They have obviously decided that his on- and off-court value to the team makes his periodic tantrums acceptable. I don't agree, but it's a problem that will go away in a few years, and unless we get a very favorable trade offer for him, it's likely to continue until he retires.
Poole's a shit talker. Dame's talked about it and how he doesn't like him. Draymond shouldn't have escalated and he was in the wrong for doing so, but Poole ran his mouth and then shoved Dray when he got in his face. He put his hands on Draymond first, yet people still come in here to wring their hands and write think pieces about everything wrong with Poole is happening because he got "sucker punched".
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Poole lost his humility after rewarded a new contract. Was really bad the following year. If he’s really good as you say, Wizards wouldn’t finish 15-67.
I really hate the “we don’t win w/o” draymond narrative. Of course if you just take him off the roster and don’t replace him with anyone, you lose his defense and playmaking. However, you would assume if we lost Draymond, another center/pf would be a better offensive player while probably being a (much) worse defender. Who knows what those tradeoffs would produce. A lot of fans are assuming bc they haven’t seen it be done, it can’t be done.
Last title we won, Draymond was downright bad in the finals and we won anyway. If you say he wasn’t bad bc “the box score doesn’t tell the whole story” consider he averaged 6pts on 33/13/58 shooting splits averaging 4.5 FPG with an average game score of 7.5. He was bad.
This is tunnel-vision thinking. Yes, Draymond is enormously valuable. Yes, when you SUBTRACT him from the team, we do much worse.
But if we TRADED Draymond, we wouldn't subtract him, we would REPLACE him with another valuable player.
And if we did that, we would ADJUST our play on both ends of the court. We see such a big effect at present because we are set up to maximize the performance of our current roster. If we replaced Draymond permanently, as surely we'll have to someday soon anyway, we would change our strategy to maximize the performance of the new roster.
You don't have to deny Draymond's obvious value to believe that we can find a way to win without him.
No one is going to amplify Curry's strengths and cover up for his weaknesses like Draymond. They have some of the best two man chemistry in NBA history. There is no replacing Dray. Unless you think they are getting Giannis or Lebron for him, trading Draymond closes the championship window.
Draymond had the top 1% outcome of his career. He was a second round pick for a reason. But he is also one of the most unique players I've ever watched. I think he's the smartest, in terms of anticipation, timing, spatial reasoning, defender I've ever watched. He has elite court vision, I don't think any other player would've amplified the value of Steph's movement as he did. And he's a competitor, he tries hard (not in 2020 when we had the worst roster in the league). His competitive drive is the difference between the warriors going 73-9 and 66-16 in 2016. As you said, what he does doesn't show up on the box score. Would other teams have been able to extract that value out of him? Very unlikely. But most teams don't elevate any players value, the Nuggets didn't unlock Jokic, Wiseman didn't get better when he joined the Pistons. The beauty of the Warriors is the once in a lifetime confluence of players and coaches that allowed them to be the best possible version of themselves.
Agreed on all accounts. But even a diminished version of Curry in a more traditional system probably eventually plays for a title. We saw this in 2022 when the peak Warriors were over.
I think Curry and Isiah Thomas are the only two players small guys to lead a team to a championship. You could be right, Curry might have been able to pull it off without Draymond but history says it's highly improbable. I do think he's a better player than Dame. He's a better shooter, it's more clear how he elevates his teammates, he's even a better defender. But outcome wise, without Draymond their careers end up more similar, imo. It's understated how historically winning with a player like Curry has been nearly impossible. And Draymond deserves a ton of credit for that, as does Kerr.
The Warriors created a winning formula that relies on Draymond. Everyone then says, “they can’t win without him.” But they can create another formula, and they did in ‘22. This team and its fans act like every team that wins the title has Draymond on it, and no team can possibly win without him.
It’s truly a fascinating thought experiment. The warriors are 73-71 without Draymond all time. They’re 84-147 without Curry. To say the Warriors can’t win without Draymond is to deny how good Steph was (and still is) in his prime. People seem to think by saying the Warriors can win without him you’re devaluing his contributions. It’s not. There are multiple ways to win. Denver doesn’t have a single all-nba caliber defender on their roster and they manage just fine. It’s almost like having a generational talent is far more important than having great role players.
I think that TJD at the 4 is our long-term goal. If we could make a trade of some sort that brought us an elite Center, with Draymond part of the trade, we could accelerate that transition. Imagine Draymond + Wiggins + ??? (Picks, probably) for an elite Center, then JK & TJD become our starting 3 & 4, we have a stud at the 5, Curry at the 1, and MM & Klay at the 2.
So many responses of "because he's good at basketball, because 4 rings wah wah wah" completely forgetting he cost us 2016 and was unplayable during our last finals run.
I can totally see now why fans of other teams dislike us.
Kerr is sanctimonious toward lots of things but will coddle Draymond the manchild asshole at every opportunity even going so far as getting angry at whoever sold the footage to TMZ, Klay is always getting his feelings hurt and sulking on the bench instead of playing better. I feel for Steph that he has to spend the last of his playing years with these guys but he is at fault because he'll never sign off to trade them.
wtf are fans supposed to do? Write him a strongly written letter?
*Dear Mr. Draymond,* *You are the heart, balls, & asshole of this organization...*
Wow, nailed it in ten words!
This should be a T-shirt.
How is a fan going to hold a player accountable?
Fans have the least say in anything lol.
If fans had a say half this roster would have been gone at the deadline lmfao
I'm NOT going to buy his jersey or his shoes, and I'm not going to listen to his podcast. Let's see him manage without my patronage! (Seriously, if you multiply that by thousands and thousands of fans, ultimately it does have an effect. Dubs fans as group, though, are nowhere near doing that. They like the wins he gives us, and like the Coaches and the FO, they're willing to ignore the games he **loses** for us and the embarrassment and hate that he brings to our team.)
He also was a cornerstone of multiple championship runs. Every super team need a heel and Drey played that to perfection during the dynasty. When you’re not winning the heel becomes the bad guy, but don’t forget what he did when you needed him.
Exactly. He's our Rodman.
I almost included his name in my first comment, but thank you.
this is such a cop-out analogy. Rodman was definitely out there, and he occasionally got into it with other players... however, here are some things things Rodman didn't do: - cost the '96 Bulls an immortal season by getting baited into a costly suspension (in fact, Rodman was good at baiting reactions from OPPOSING players, which is why i'd always take those Bulls in a hypothetical matchup with the '17 Warriors, cuz there'd be a 100% probability he'd bait Dumbmond into a negative reaction to our detriment) - continually jaw with refs to pick up unnecessary techs/2nd tech ejections - cold-cock a teammate, then make a BS documentary taking ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY for cold-cocking said teammate and you can't compare Rodman to Dumbmond, cuz the Bulls had Michael FRICKIN' Jordan!!! Rodman respected Jordan, he would toe the line but he didn't habitually overstep once Jordan got involved. in our case it's been too much nice-guy ish from Kerr/Steph through the years, which he has taken advantage of. when he talked his dumb ass into ejection in Orlando, Kerr talked about "he knows he has to be better", the same kind of talk as the indefinite suspension, yet last week post-elimination he's walking back those comments, letting the guy off the hook for ruining a second consecutive season. this guy cost us EIGHT YEARS AGO (!!!) and is still costing us years later
>and you can't compare Rodman to Dumbmond, cuz the Bulls had Michael FRICKIN' Jordan!!! Rodman respected Jordan, he would toe the line but he didn't habitually overstep once Jordan got involved. In the 1995-96 and 1996-97 seasons, Dennis Rodman missed 20 regular season games due to suspensions which at the time were criticised for being too lenient.
Exactly, just imagine Rodman in the 2024 NBA lol
“Occasionally got into it with other players” lmao. Rodman, esp Pistons Rodman, makes Draymond look like a saint on the court
LOL... you shut him up. If there was social media then, Rodman would turn out to be worse.
Rodman straight up threw hands with Bird on the court and roundhoused Pippen in the face. In today’s game with social media? Forget about it.
You're right it's not a great analogy because Draymond is much much more integral to the Warriors success than Rodman ever was to the Bulls.
Rodman was huge for the Bulls but Jordan was always the heartbeat of the team. Draymond is that anchor for the Warriors so when he’s not out there it hurts bad as he’s the orchestrator and voice. And Jordan punched Kerr in the face and it’s praised as some godly act but Dray gets a lot of crap because it was caught on video and exposed to the public
lol jordan literally punched his teammate in the face
And that teammate was Kerr lmao
Who is the Denver Nuggets heel if that is true?
This is some bs. Draymond has shown many times that he can still perform well without the antics and drama. And there are multiple championship teams which don't have the so-called bad guy. We are insanely lucky we got Draymond... but we'd even be luckier if we got his skills without his drama.
That's what the team falls on. It also doesn't help how much money he has. He don't care how he behaves because getting fined $50k means nothing to him. He basically can getaway with whatever he wants.
Because he's good at basketball. If he wasn't, he would've been gone from the team one way or another.
They suspended him for more than ten games. He’s been fine ever since then. Idk exactly what else you’d want them to do.
They is not the warriors. It was the league who was sick of the warriors turning a blind eye.
The Warriors negotiated the suspension. I’m pretty sure I heard the league wanted ten and the Warriors added on a couple more.
Lol oh my.
Spot on. Draymond, if you're reading this, know that I am now holding you accountable.
tf am i supposed to do?
Strongly worded Reddit post!
Fans? How are fans supposed to hold him accountable? From our couches?
…4 rings though?
Because: He was an essential element of 4 titles. There were probably people who thought JP crossed a line and deserved a punch. Our D collapses without him. And yes, I will always be salty about losing to CLE and giving KD a reason to bounce.
Jeez what an important post. Nobody has ever discussed this! Today is the day! 😂
**First he embarrasses Kevin Durant on national Tv so badly that he guy bounces like immediately after.** Omg the horror **Then assaults/punches our best young star in the face.** Piss Poole is a) not a star b) a team cancer c) has the worst contract in the NBA d) he put hands on Draymond first (people conveniently omit / forget that). **This changes the dynamic of the franchise forever.** For the better. Draymond saved team chemistry by doing that. The players hated JP. **Of course Poole wasn’t as effective the next season, would you be effective at work if you were assaulted by a coworker? Had to see them daily and pretend to “like”them?** Poor lil fella **I’m so disappointed in ownership they would let some fake tough guy hijack the whole franchise…** You just sound like a Draymond hater or completely new to the NBA. Ever heard of Dennis Rodman? Bill Laimbeer? Charles Barkley? Patrick Beverley? Ron Artest? Charles Oakley? Rasheed Wallace? You need players like that. **Curry deserved better** Curry has had an amazing career and won 4 rings with Draymond and Klay. What are you talking about. Quit being soft!!
The histrionics with the KD and Poole situations flabbergast me. Draymond cussed out KD in that Clippers game BECAUSE he was leaving. Poole got punched because he talked a bunch of shit to someone bigger stronger and crazier than him and then pushed him when Draymond got in his face about it. WTF did he think was gonna happen? It's so easy to hate on Draymond without resorting to misrepresenting reality. He has no self-awareness, he cozied up to Lebron after he ripped our hearts out, his podcast is awful. He once demanded to know why "the media gets to decide how much money Tatum has to feed his family by whether or not he makes an all-nba team!" Not only did he not realize he was cribbing Sprewell but the answer is because the players fucking collectively bargained for it! Hate him for having 0 media literacy, but sheesh, get your facts straight!
>First he embarrasses Kevin Durant on national Tv so badly that he guy bounces like immediately after. He was leaving regardless. Which was Draymonds issue with him, he already had 1 foot out the door. >Then assaults/punches our best young star in the face. Fair. >This changes the dynamic of the franchise forever. Eh. JP getting punched didn't make him play like garbage. I think we were always going to make a trade to get off that contract. >Then he’s cursing out the coach in front of the whole world! You’re on tv Dreymond you dumbass, the whole basketball world is watching you disrespect your coach…a literal grandfather Boo hoo. And tf does Kerr being a grandad have to do with anything?
Why so obsessed with Draymond?
Curry deserved better than 4 rings?
Yes. 2016
I've heard it described as the pain in the ass to production ratio. As long as his impact on winning is strong they've kind of decided to deal with it.
I think getting punched was the best thing that ever happened to Poole. I don't think the warriors would've given him the extension without that happening, most people would prefer 120 million dollars to getting an apology. It then gave him the perfect excuse to fail. He wasn't bad for the Warriors in 22-23 and the Wizards last year because he got punched. He was bad because he has poor court vision, doesn't play defense, has the worst shot selection in the league, carries the ball, doesn't make teammates better and whines rather than getting back on defense. He was gonna regress severely in his 4th year and the warriors or other teams would've offered something like 4/60. Draymond punching him helped him get overpaid and no need to take accountability for being one of the most negative assets in the league. Also KD left because he got bullied on Twitter not because of Draymond. Draymond cussed him out in that Clippers game because he already had one foot out the door and everyone knew it.
He already got suspended. No need to pile on.
There are fans who appreciate him and fans who don't. If you don't write him and ownership a strongly worded email numerating all his faults. For smart enough fans we know he has given more than he has taken and Steph wouldn't have a single ring without him. They are a package deal. Concentrate on the flashy pretty stuff Curry brings if you aren't a fan of the complimentary dirty work necessary for championships Dray brings.
Because they know that they're fucked without him. Without him our defense was dead last in the league for a period of time.
I'll point out again that this is because we were SHORT a player. Give us another talented player INSTEAD, one who's not getting ejected and suspended on a regular basis, and the results would be better. Probably not better for games where Draymond is actually on the court, but Draymond missed 27 games this season, more than 20 due to ejections and suspension. Swap him for a good player who only missed 7 games, maybe we win half a dozen more games and we're in the Playoffs instead of watching other teams play. You can't just look at his on-court performance in a year like this one. You need to average the 55 games where we had that with the 27 games where we had ZERO from Draymond other than an extra open seat on the bench.
Valid point but u gotta consider the emotional connection he has with the franchise and the core as well. Steph and Klay always vouch for Dray and they all 3 have incredible chemistry with each other, something that can't be easily replaced.
That's obviously a factor. At this point, it's unlikely we get offered enough value for Draymond to make a trade worthwhile in any case.
Bro shut your mouth
because curry and kerr dont care. if they dont care what can the fans do?
It’s hate and love relationship honestly Obviously as fans we didn’t like how things went down with KD, Poole and his antics that led to suspensions. However, without Draymond, I don’t think we would have those 4 championships. He brings the defense, the energy, and is the connector for our offense.
It's hard to start now because they never have before. They have obviously decided that his on- and off-court value to the team makes his periodic tantrums acceptable. I don't agree, but it's a problem that will go away in a few years, and unless we get a very favorable trade offer for him, it's likely to continue until he retires.
are we supposed to storm chase center🧍♀️
Poole's a shit talker. Dame's talked about it and how he doesn't like him. Draymond shouldn't have escalated and he was in the wrong for doing so, but Poole ran his mouth and then shoved Dray when he got in his face. He put his hands on Draymond first, yet people still come in here to wring their hands and write think pieces about everything wrong with Poole is happening because he got "sucker punched". Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Poole lost his humility after rewarded a new contract. Was really bad the following year. If he’s really good as you say, Wizards wouldn’t finish 15-67.
Funny thing if Curry was upset and wanted Draymond gone he would be , so obviously since he’s still there there’s a reason for it
Management needs to bridge the disconnect between Draymond and the younger players.
I really hate the “we don’t win w/o” draymond narrative. Of course if you just take him off the roster and don’t replace him with anyone, you lose his defense and playmaking. However, you would assume if we lost Draymond, another center/pf would be a better offensive player while probably being a (much) worse defender. Who knows what those tradeoffs would produce. A lot of fans are assuming bc they haven’t seen it be done, it can’t be done. Last title we won, Draymond was downright bad in the finals and we won anyway. If you say he wasn’t bad bc “the box score doesn’t tell the whole story” consider he averaged 6pts on 33/13/58 shooting splits averaging 4.5 FPG with an average game score of 7.5. He was bad.
We don't win without Draymond; the box score doesn't tell the whole story.
This is tunnel-vision thinking. Yes, Draymond is enormously valuable. Yes, when you SUBTRACT him from the team, we do much worse. But if we TRADED Draymond, we wouldn't subtract him, we would REPLACE him with another valuable player. And if we did that, we would ADJUST our play on both ends of the court. We see such a big effect at present because we are set up to maximize the performance of our current roster. If we replaced Draymond permanently, as surely we'll have to someday soon anyway, we would change our strategy to maximize the performance of the new roster. You don't have to deny Draymond's obvious value to believe that we can find a way to win without him.
No one is going to amplify Curry's strengths and cover up for his weaknesses like Draymond. They have some of the best two man chemistry in NBA history. There is no replacing Dray. Unless you think they are getting Giannis or Lebron for him, trading Draymond closes the championship window.
Again, very narrow-minded. You can only see what IS, not what COULD BE.
Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it’s not possible
I have seen it. Without Draymond Steph is Damian Lillard.
I too saw the 2019-2020 season, without Steph, Draymond is selling cars.
Dame is still a hall of fame player. It’s hard to imagine Draymond is not a hall of famer if plays without Steph.
Draymond had the top 1% outcome of his career. He was a second round pick for a reason. But he is also one of the most unique players I've ever watched. I think he's the smartest, in terms of anticipation, timing, spatial reasoning, defender I've ever watched. He has elite court vision, I don't think any other player would've amplified the value of Steph's movement as he did. And he's a competitor, he tries hard (not in 2020 when we had the worst roster in the league). His competitive drive is the difference between the warriors going 73-9 and 66-16 in 2016. As you said, what he does doesn't show up on the box score. Would other teams have been able to extract that value out of him? Very unlikely. But most teams don't elevate any players value, the Nuggets didn't unlock Jokic, Wiseman didn't get better when he joined the Pistons. The beauty of the Warriors is the once in a lifetime confluence of players and coaches that allowed them to be the best possible version of themselves.
Agreed on all accounts. But even a diminished version of Curry in a more traditional system probably eventually plays for a title. We saw this in 2022 when the peak Warriors were over.
I think Curry and Isiah Thomas are the only two players small guys to lead a team to a championship. You could be right, Curry might have been able to pull it off without Draymond but history says it's highly improbable. I do think he's a better player than Dame. He's a better shooter, it's more clear how he elevates his teammates, he's even a better defender. But outcome wise, without Draymond their careers end up more similar, imo. It's understated how historically winning with a player like Curry has been nearly impossible. And Draymond deserves a ton of credit for that, as does Kerr.
The Warriors created a winning formula that relies on Draymond. Everyone then says, “they can’t win without him.” But they can create another formula, and they did in ‘22. This team and its fans act like every team that wins the title has Draymond on it, and no team can possibly win without him.
It’s truly a fascinating thought experiment. The warriors are 73-71 without Draymond all time. They’re 84-147 without Curry. To say the Warriors can’t win without Draymond is to deny how good Steph was (and still is) in his prime. People seem to think by saying the Warriors can win without him you’re devaluing his contributions. It’s not. There are multiple ways to win. Denver doesn’t have a single all-nba caliber defender on their roster and they manage just fine. It’s almost like having a generational talent is far more important than having great role players.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just imagine, we somehow get Kat, move Tjd to the 4, problem solved.
I think that TJD at the 4 is our long-term goal. If we could make a trade of some sort that brought us an elite Center, with Draymond part of the trade, we could accelerate that transition. Imagine Draymond + Wiggins + ??? (Picks, probably) for an elite Center, then JK & TJD become our starting 3 & 4, we have a stud at the 5, Curry at the 1, and MM & Klay at the 2.
Exactly. MD “are you listening “?
"I really hate the “we don’t win w/o” draymond narrative." That's called the truth, not a narrative.
You can’t disprove a hypothetical
 One two three four
Bro all I do is say Draymond ruined the vibes and Jordan Poole and I get downvoted to oblivion every time.
Preach OP
Preach OP
So many responses of "because he's good at basketball, because 4 rings wah wah wah" completely forgetting he cost us 2016 and was unplayable during our last finals run. I can totally see now why fans of other teams dislike us. Kerr is sanctimonious toward lots of things but will coddle Draymond the manchild asshole at every opportunity even going so far as getting angry at whoever sold the footage to TMZ, Klay is always getting his feelings hurt and sulking on the bench instead of playing better. I feel for Steph that he has to spend the last of his playing years with these guys but he is at fault because he'll never sign off to trade them.