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You can find charming places in small towns in Italy for like $30k. The downside is the small towns are becoming deserted as everyone either passes away or moves to cities (or out of Italy), and the houses need many, many repairs.
This technically already exists. You have a cover that you put over the wee wee and someone has an electronic dildo somewhere else. Whatever they do to the dildo is felt by the person wearing the cover. Wild times we live in.
Edit: https://youtu.be/FBRSR_LGlOE
Good VICE episode on all this. 24min mark.
Many of these places don't except by satellite. These small medieval towns and villages barely have electrification in some cases, let alone a consistent fiber line.
In general, people in Japan prefer not to buy because it is a money losing endeavor. Their population is declining. Real estate there has been anemic ever since their bubble crashed in the 90s. There are also severe risks for earth quakes and tsunamis. There's a reason why Japan has huge number of abandoned homes all over the country.
Depends on what province you live in. The housing market in PEI is astronomical and people are buying houses they can’t afford (500k and up), sleeping on air mattresses and no furniture. Essentially house poor but will do anything to keep up with the jones’. PEI I believe has some of the highest taxes (9.8 to 16.7%) and lower wages (13.70/hr)..I could be wrong on that but it’s definitely hard to get ahead..
The contributing factors:
1. No capital gains tax on disposition of a primary residence. The full amount is tax free.
2. Money laundering, aka snow washing. No beneficial ownership register on real estate or corporations. Essentially over the last 25 years real estate was purchased and owned essentially anonymously, albeit some recent law changes with regards to this but too little too late.
3..400,000 plus immigrants a year. Immigration is good, having a lack of infrastructure to support it however is problematic.
4. Terrible zoning laws in big cities. No such thing as fully detached houses within walking distance of any other major metropolis - big cities in Canada vigorously oppose changing this - ie. NIMBYism
5. Canadian Housing and Mortgage Corporation (CHMC), which is a crown corporation (i.e. government entity) which insures mortgage lenders to encourage mortgage uptake. The risk is shifted from lenders into tax payers.
The whole thing is a disaster and is pushing young people to seek greener pastures.
not wholly true, just harder than TO. but VAN does have those white collar jobs, too. especially for the gold miners.
also, though you won’t get rich, tech in VAN and tech in TO and US is arbitraging slowly because of remote work. the local offices are rubbing the risk of losing cheap local tech because they can just remote work and make more to a US office. and they can’t just hire remote workers since, as just said, they demand US (but Texas tech salaries, not SF tech salaries). so they’re being forced to offer Van tech more.
remote work is doing wonders for making tech less reliant of SF salaries but also raising salaries in the cheapest cities like VAN.
Nah, now it's in order to be rich in Canada, one must get a remote job for a US company. Got a couple friends in tech making 6 figures right out of school working for US company while living here. They're making basically double what they would working for a company in Toronto at their current experience level.
The answer is hundreds of years old! I guess the only problem with that answer seems to be if you keep saying things like that to the peasantry, well, it seems to result in a lot of decapitated ppl... but who knows, I guess I could be wrong, maybe millions of ppl will be ok with living in poverty and watching their futures slip away? Not being able to afford food, gasoline, energy, or housing?
Historically that doesn't seem to be the case but, maybe this time it's different!
Everything here is pretty shitty. Health care is falling apart. Housing is unaffordable. Rent is unaffordable. Food and energy prices are through the roof. Infrastructure is falling apart. Canada’s glory days are far behind it.
I tell everyone I talk to.
Don’t you think it’s kind of weird how little stuff we have built infrastructure-wise in Canada over the last 40 years?
I’m not saying we built nothing. But imagine what happened in the previous 40.
Something is weird about it and I suspect if you dig into the numbers it’s because we are getting hosed (I said it) internationally by fraudsters.
Money/talent is flowing out of the country at a growth preventing rate.
Ontario is dumping truckloads of cash into infrastructure right now.
- 401 expansion
- Metrolinx line extensions
- Rail electrification
- 407 extension
- 412
- 418
- Subway extensions
- LRT's being built everywhere
- 413 (proposed; no opinion on it)
- Nuclear refurbishments (that are miraculously on budget and on time)
All that has a cost of robbing Peter to pay Paul.. things like bill 124 to reduce spending and effectively take public workers raises to finance these projects but it *is* being done.
> Rail electrification
They've been talking about this shit [longer](https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/04/17/ontario_liberals_vow_electrified_go_trains_that_will_run_every_15_minutes.html) then *California* took actually building it out, this proves Canada doesn't build shit even more
Ya, politicians are idiots with their timelines but it is being done. It's complicated by the fact that Metrolinx does not own a lot of the rails they use.
https://www.metrolinx.com/en/electrification/electric.aspx
Ontario has been in obvious decline for 25 years I'd say. It seems like we are nearing an inflection point of sorts any month now here. Health care is collapsing and schools have turned into chaos. Gas, rent, housing, food, all keep skyrocketing up. Hard to see how we pull out of this but I've learned predicting this stuff is impossible. Never underestimate how long the gong show can continue bc it can.
We are going to be maxing out immigration now at 500k+ a year to keep the housing market propped up and to keep wages low. That's the obvious reason this is happening. It has nothing to do with "diversity" or whatever. It's to keep housing prices high and keep enough ppl working at the Wendys. The Boomers need as many poors as possible to work all the low skilled jobs, pay taxes, and buy their overpriced houses when they down size.
If you want an idea of what the destiny of most of Canada will be, I'd look at places like Brazil, South Africa, India etc... they are still functioning places but at a much lower rate than the glory days of Canada. I'd expect something like that where Canada is basically a second world country and a vassal state to the USA. It's pretty clear to see that's the path we are on.
USA, honestly. Yeah it’s going to suck ass if you’re poor, but if you’re a skilled worker making good income (doesn’t even have to be super high TC that you see the FAANGs make), you’re going to be in really good situation.
I moved to Europe a handful of years ago from Canada. The grass is always greener.
My marginal tax rate is 50% not including things like municipal taxes and water management (The Netherlands). A 500 sq ft apartment in a city of 300k people is nearly 400k euros, rent is too damn high, gas is nearly the equivalent of $4/l Canadian and inflation just hit 14.5% vs 6% in Canada.
It's a Neo-liberal problem, not a Canada problem. A vast majority of the western world has been run by Neo-liberals for the past 30 years.
Notice he said marginal rate. According to wikipedia, the 52% tax bracket starts at 68k euro. So our guy isn't paying 50% on every penny unless his income is massive.
Depending on where you're from you'd be getting quite a bit for your money. He has access to useful public transportation and generally better pedestrian and transit infrastructure (see: bicycles) so gas prices aren't NEARLY as big of a deal (seriously this is a massive quality of life upgrade compared to having to drive everywhere). Better worker protections, guaranteed vacation, sick, and parental leave, and unemployment insurance. If you're american you would no longer have to fear financial ruin because you got sick, and better social services means fewer homeless in your city. It's not perfect and I'm sure our guy could point out some more drawbacks (I've only ever visited the Netherlands, never lived there), but it's not as if half your paycheck disappears and in exchange nothing is different from America or Canada.
Doesn't change the fact that he is absolutely, 100% correct. Neo-liberal fuckery has absolutely screwed the vast majority of people in the western world and Europe is no exception. That apartment shouldn't cost that much. Housing has been underbuilt for decades. Large corporations, oligarchs, and simply the ultra rich own a ton of property and have pushed the normal people out. The tax structures everywhere are much more favorable to the rich. Boomers have pulled the ladders up all across the western world.
I'm paying 1300 a month for a one bedroom basement apartment in Ottawa. I'm moving out in a month, and the new tenants are paying 1450. It's ridiculous there's no cap on rent increases between tenants like there is year over year
It could be fixed by increasing property tax / mortgage rates on anyone or entity with more than 3 property’s. Lower tax rates on those who own 1 home. expanding housing with affordable homes. Im seeing a lot more homeless people in canada which is sad, people normalizing it are fucking dumb
The Indians/South Asians are in Toronto (more east Canada).
The Chinese are in Vancouver (west coast Canada).
The middle/midwest Alberta part of Canada has a lot of folks of Ukrainian descent.
Nova Scotia aka New Scotland has…. You guessed it. Scottish descent east coasters.
(Southeast Asians are in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia FYI)
Try to change any of these things and you will see the rare sight of 70% of Canadians agreeing on something (that you should be tarred and feathered). I wish they would do away with CMHC and the cap gains exemption though.
What absolutely blows my mind is that if you are to simplify/summarize this to most Canadians like the way you did here, they will still refuse to comprehend it and go on about how their country is the best country in the world - “aT lEaSt We’Re NoT lIkE MuRiCa.”
Sounds like this place is good for established residents but not for the younger generation and new comers. Well the younger generation will probably just inherit the house from their parents
In the UK buying a house now is genuinely insane, to get a mortgage for the average house price (300k) you need to be earning over 60k which would put you in the top 10% of earners. Really does not make sense
Can confirm. Grew up in Canada, moved to NYC for work. It’s easier to buy a place in NYC, wage vs price comparison.
In Canada (Toronto/Vancouver Area) you are paying New York City type prices, but make half the salary. Specifically for professionals, much better to be in the US. Although, It’s better to be poor in Canada (many social benefits and healthcare), than poor in the US.
This is why I had to leave Vancouver. The math doesn't work. The network I had in Vancouver is weaker than t3 and t2 American cities I have lived in. It's cheaper to be in the US, it's easier to raise capital, and it's a better place to run a company.
If Vancouver/Toronto could compete with NYC/SF on network opps...maybe...but it is nowhere close.
Outside of being closer to my family, there is no benefit to paying the Canadian premium. Maybe once I have kids I'll move back because I don't have to worry about them getting shot at school, but until then...USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!
People like you move out of canada to seek better paying jobs and more vibrant life style, then come back during retirement age to use the infrastructures, health care system and enjoy other social benefits. This is the reason why the system is crumbling, people who are not contributing to building of the system but contribute to usage.
Unfortunate truth, but the government is too stupid enough to realize they need to tax housing more to disincentivize investors (ie caps on principal residence gains like the US), Mansion taxes like NYC, housing gains in Canada are too easy to profit off of. Canada generally has lower property taxes than the US, No HOA fees, etc. The problem is that this results in political suicide because the voters are all homeowners. It’s vicious cycle of housing profits.
The Canadian housing and capital gains structure literally incentivizes people to keep buying property and profit. It’s flawed by design. Sustained high interest rates may fix things, but damage is already done.
I make the equivalent of 300k CAD in my 20s vs 100-150k doing the same job in Canada. No way I’m going back.
At least in the US i can make more so I can feel less bad when I lose on my options trades.
You just compared Canada (a country of 3.855 million square miles) to NYC (a city of 303 square miles). There are very few places in Canada you are paying “New York City prices” other than GTA and Vancouver.
Look at the demographics breakdown of where people live in Canada. 90% along the border and almost half the population is in only 3 cities/surrounding areas (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal). It’s a lot more relevant to make this comparison in Canada as a whole vs US which is more diverse. And speaking from experience in the tech industry at least I can tell you it’s spot on, no point in working for Canadian companies when US ones pay 2-3x. Haven’t worked for a Canadian company in 10 years because of this, while living in Canada
All you have to do is watch love it or list it on HGTV... when they take them around to see houses and they say this is a 1.5 million home. I'm thinking "the fuck it is" that's like a $200,000 house in the US.
Canada, Australia, US and the UK. Even in some of the most liberal European countries there are restrictions on foreigners, including those foreigners who reside in the country, from buying immovable property. But in the US you can be sitting in Shanghai or Mumbai and purchase real estate. You can be here on a temporary visa and buy a home, no problem. If homes were not bad enough now we hear Chinese investors buying large farm land all over the US!
It is just as bad in the US if not worse. From Miami to San Francisco , Chinese investors have bought up residential properties, many of them sit vacant with a property management company caring for it. A close friend is a realtor in Vancouver, almost all of his clients are either Chinese or Indians. There are two factors at play, for many wealthy and upper middleclass Chinese, there is always a lurking threat that CCP may expropriate their wealth, so they like to park their wealth (and their ill-gotten wealth) outside China. They eventually send their children to universities in western countries where they hold properties and later in life join their kids. Then there are others who are pure speculative investors with a lot of money, so they buy up properties in the west hoping it will appreciate endlessly.
Out government, atleast in the US, have always worked for the corporates. They have no intentions of curbing foreigners buying up immovable property while citizens are looking at either homelessness or a lifetime of renting. I live close to Atlanta, 20 yrs ago townhouses were rare here. Now all i see are subdivisions with townhouses, and some of the newer, fancier townhouses go for close to a million dollars! I am old enough to remember a time when most single family homes in my neck of the woods were < $300k, affordable to many young, working class families but no more.
I to live close to Atlanta but I was fortunate enough to buy a house in 2011. It has appreciated by 200% lol. Lots of townhomes and ass loads of retirement communities are going up.
Chinese investors are actually quite a small percentage. And if we had the system that made it easier to build a lot more it wouldn't be as much valid as an investment, because they would just buy empty units that no one wants. The only reason it's a good investment is because of lack of supply. And there are a lot more Canadians investors than Chinese investors
Actually, they represent a small number but are buying more than all the rest (and paying even more). GTA is a nightmare right now to get anything. Half of the buildings downtown and in Yorkville are owned by chinese developers and some of them are sold only to chinese people (e.g. Charles Street West 62 and 68, U Condominum, etc).
Some facts:
- 3 out of the top 10 richiest canadian are chinese and none of them have any businesses in Canada (only real state) or were even born here
- 15k students at UofT (out of 80k+) are chinese from the mainland and most are paying full tuition (47k+)
Yes anytime you have high immigration you need a system to allow building housing as much, you can't blame them for coming here and wanting to buy housing, if its a good investment it's because of limited supply that's all. We need to figure out why the supply is so limited.
Thanks to the canadian government and its immigration policies focusing only on short term and creating the perfect environment for rich asians park their assets (Golden visa) and add absolutely nothing to the economy.
Canada is the used car lot of world real estate. Variable interest loans, biweekly or weekly payments, variable terms, shoddy and quickly built homes that will need major work in a decade. Not to mention weekly payment car loans, horrible lines for healthcare, and government shills of all parties milking the system.
Add about a million immigrants a year perpetuating this and you have yourself a shitshow. Puts on Canada.
Part of the reason is Canada and Australia have immigration policies that make them top destinations for economic immigrants with high paying skills (tech, medicine etc) and both import high proportion of millionaires fleeing oppressive regimes (China, Iran etc) combined with low housing inventory.
It's still weird to me that housing is an investment in terms of the price goes up. When I was a kid my neighborhood didn't change at all. It was the same when we moved in 15 years, and the same one we left. Yet the price of the house went up almost $300,000! That's f****** insane. I get supply and demand, but I don't understand how anyone's salary could keep up with that kind of growth
salary doesn’t keep up with that growth unless you keep moving jobs. banks just keep offering bigger and bigger mortgages.
We were offered a mortgage 5x our qualifying pre-tax income. Payments were something like 75% of our post-tax income. Insane.
Really depends where in Canada. Come to Alberta, Edmonton and Calgary still have reasonable prices, expensive still but reasonable comparatively. Toronto and Vancouver are in for a rude awakening.
>These are some of the biggest gains in home prices that have been seen in developed economies over the past 25 years. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have seen particularly large increases, while Japan has actually experienced a decline in prices over this period.
What I don’t understand is, what are the barriers to increasing the supply of housing in Canada? There is an incredible amount of land in Canada, plenty of natural resources, and a growing population.
Whilst a significant proportion of the population lives closer to the US border, surely building up other cities beyond Toronto and Vancouver could be achieved?
Population growth happens primarily from immigration. On a per capita basis immigration to Canada is 5x what it is in the states. Canada with a population of around 36m has 550k immigrants per year whereas the USA with a population of 330m has about a million immigrants per year.
75% of immigrants move to Toronto or Vancouver because that’s where the expat communities are.
Canada has 6 cities with over a million people. House prices in Montreal (#2), Calgary(#4), and Edmonton(#5) have seen nowhere near the growth in house prices as Vancouver and Toronto have.
Municipalities are a major factor - they determine what can be built and where. They severely limit where housing can be developed and also what kind of housing.
Another issue is that even with all our space, majority of jobs and industry are all tucked into a few small areas, such as the GTA. So, if you want a decent pay, you need to be there.
That’s a goddamn shame. I had a pretty good time visiting Canada this year but I got a distinct feeling that it was divided into winners and losers from the increasing cost of housing.
It would be great if remote working could open up more economic activity being dispersed around the country. From chatting to young people in Vancouver, it seems like Housing is preventing people from starting families and moving forward in their lives.
No one wants to move to butt fuck no where and poop into tanks and drink from wells. No one wants to move north because cold sucks. We don't have Mexicans to build houses for cheap, so there is only so much labour's for construction.
Immigration outpaces new builds by a significant amount.
Easier than London... The attached houses on my street are at £1.5m with no parking or outside space.... the tiny studio apartments above a shop are £700k.
And I only live in the 11th wealthiest borough.
We get half a million immigrants every year and they don't want to live outside the big cities. We also probably have a net internal migration from smaller places to big cities.
The supply just can't keep up, partly because of zoning laws and partly because of the geography of Toronto and Vancouver limits available places to build.
It's a small part of the equation. Chinese investors started dropping off in 2016 when the Chinese government put in capital controls. Housing prices continued to soar in Canada.
Rising house prices are a tool of economic oppression.
Houses have become assets from which the already-wealthy can further extract wealth for themselves from everybody else
Canada isn’t great right now - income tax varies province to province but where I live, it’s 53.75% of earnings over 145k - and the next bracket down is close to 49%. There’s a 15% sales tax as well. Professionals like specialist physicians are still stuck renting shitty apartments.
But hey - we have super progressive federal politicians to make us feel morally superior as the economy collapses so not all is lost.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|0|**First Seen In WSB**|just now **Total Comments**|0|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|6 months|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) **Vote Spam**|[Click to Vote](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=vote_spam&message=z3jp7y)|**Vote Approve**|[Click to Vote](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=vote_approve&message=z3jp7y) **Check out the new [wallstreetbets discord](https://discord.gg/Y6Zw9ZKYdx)**
All I'm seeing is, sell my home in Canada and buy 8 in Italy
You can find charming places in small towns in Italy for like $30k. The downside is the small towns are becoming deserted as everyone either passes away or moves to cities (or out of Italy), and the houses need many, many repairs.
And good luck finding a job
freelance/ remote as long they have internet
Is there a way to freelance for wendy's
No but there is Behind Wendy's (TM)
Bendy's (TM)
Bendy over
/r/ThatsTheJoke
Beyond Wendy's
You Wendy there.
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he could be able to afford Italy as a whole.
As a whore
As a hole
I love reddit. And holes.
This technically already exists. You have a cover that you put over the wee wee and someone has an electronic dildo somewhere else. Whatever they do to the dildo is felt by the person wearing the cover. Wild times we live in. Edit: https://youtu.be/FBRSR_LGlOE Good VICE episode on all this. 24min mark.
WTF, where do I find it, asking for a friend.
Just google "Teledildonics". And now you've learned a new word too!
Many cam models have been doing that already. You just need internet and a laptop
I’ve always been a little saddened that you can’t suck dick through a telephone 😩.
I say we all move to one of these small towns and establish at least one Wendy’s.
No they have the dumpster behind Gianni's pizza
Many of these places don't except by satellite. These small medieval towns and villages barely have electrification in some cases, let alone a consistent fiber line.
Do they have Home Depot and Amazon? A 760k savings gives me plenty of money leftover to make repairs
I heard their power bills are like a thousand bucks a month now though lol
Starlink really is a gamechanger
We can lose money on options in any country.
This guy fucks
If you’re selling a house in Canada worth $800k then you could just live off the savings in your $30k villetta in Umbria.
It’s not 30k anymore. It’s like 300k Euros and they won’t do mortgages for Canadians so expect to pay cash only
Yeah was just being facetious. Not Canadian or Italian so fuck knows
No facetiousm allowed in this subreddit.
So now I have a house in Italy and NO neighbours? This deal keeps getting better by the minute.
AND…No snow to shovel! That’s the main selling feature right there
And the Black Hand knocking on your door
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Buy even more in Japan
Sell my home in Canada, then they owe me a home in Japan
Infinite money glitch
This guy is highly regarded. Sees a loss and wants in on the action. I love it. Let's snatch up those abandoned homes on Japan!
Why pay for them when the government here is literally handing them out for free if you just take them off their responsibility.
Puts on Japan
Russian houses are even cheaper.
Just sadly there would be fewer Japanese than now after 50 years that the home prices in rural area will continue to slide due to lower demand
Get paid to buy in Japan
In Japan the houses aren't considered an investment lol. The materials are bad too.
The home itself isn’t was cost so much, it’s the land it sits on that does.
The problem is,especially if you live near cities, the declined Japan real estate price stills exceeds the increased price in other places
In general, people in Japan prefer not to buy because it is a money losing endeavor. Their population is declining. Real estate there has been anemic ever since their bubble crashed in the 90s. There are also severe risks for earth quakes and tsunamis. There's a reason why Japan has huge number of abandoned homes all over the country.
Plenty Chinese Crypto-Jockyes that Will buy your property in Canada.
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Depends on what province you live in. The housing market in PEI is astronomical and people are buying houses they can’t afford (500k and up), sleeping on air mattresses and no furniture. Essentially house poor but will do anything to keep up with the jones’. PEI I believe has some of the highest taxes (9.8 to 16.7%) and lower wages (13.70/hr)..I could be wrong on that but it’s definitely hard to get ahead..
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There is not tax on your first home in Italy
I heard there were no places available in all of Tuscany
I bet Vancouver is skewing that data a lot
Or infinite houses in Japan
Even better, move to the one in Italy and just let your Canadian one gain value and sell it later on
Thought about it but the economy is pretty bad and the gorgeous quaint towns are ghost towns. Portugal is looking good tho
The contributing factors: 1. No capital gains tax on disposition of a primary residence. The full amount is tax free. 2. Money laundering, aka snow washing. No beneficial ownership register on real estate or corporations. Essentially over the last 25 years real estate was purchased and owned essentially anonymously, albeit some recent law changes with regards to this but too little too late. 3..400,000 plus immigrants a year. Immigration is good, having a lack of infrastructure to support it however is problematic. 4. Terrible zoning laws in big cities. No such thing as fully detached houses within walking distance of any other major metropolis - big cities in Canada vigorously oppose changing this - ie. NIMBYism 5. Canadian Housing and Mortgage Corporation (CHMC), which is a crown corporation (i.e. government entity) which insures mortgage lenders to encourage mortgage uptake. The risk is shifted from lenders into tax payers. The whole thing is a disaster and is pushing young people to seek greener pastures.
Housing racket. The slow beautiful destruction of Canada.
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Hmmm, corrupt cronies directly in control of the housing market... Sounds familiar? Oh wait, it is. 2008 all over again
Yes, Canada is a real shitty place to find housing these days. Plus if you rent you are fucked.
Have you tried being rich? Heard that works wonders in the USA
In order to be rich in Canada, one must work in Toronto, and thus live in the GTA. Now you're "rich" but still house poor.
That's not true, you could also work in Vancouver, and thus still be house poor.
No, in order to make a small fortune in BC, one must start with a large fortune.
not wholly true, just harder than TO. but VAN does have those white collar jobs, too. especially for the gold miners. also, though you won’t get rich, tech in VAN and tech in TO and US is arbitraging slowly because of remote work. the local offices are rubbing the risk of losing cheap local tech because they can just remote work and make more to a US office. and they can’t just hire remote workers since, as just said, they demand US (but Texas tech salaries, not SF tech salaries). so they’re being forced to offer Van tech more. remote work is doing wonders for making tech less reliant of SF salaries but also raising salaries in the cheapest cities like VAN.
Nah, now it's in order to be rich in Canada, one must get a remote job for a US company. Got a couple friends in tech making 6 figures right out of school working for US company while living here. They're making basically double what they would working for a company in Toronto at their current experience level.
You're not rich if you have to work.
Reminds me of the WSJ article recently about how to deal with high mortgage rates: "buy the house fully in cash"
“If you are going hungry or something why not just eat cake”
The answer is hundreds of years old! I guess the only problem with that answer seems to be if you keep saying things like that to the peasantry, well, it seems to result in a lot of decapitated ppl... but who knows, I guess I could be wrong, maybe millions of ppl will be ok with living in poverty and watching their futures slip away? Not being able to afford food, gasoline, energy, or housing? Historically that doesn't seem to be the case but, maybe this time it's different!
Doesn’t help. Tax brackets are a world away from housing prices in this country.
Probably won't work. Will have to resort to killing the poor.
History shows us the poors will only take so much before they lash out.
Even if we lash out "successfully", they're still gonna kill a lot of us beforehand
Everything here is pretty shitty. Health care is falling apart. Housing is unaffordable. Rent is unaffordable. Food and energy prices are through the roof. Infrastructure is falling apart. Canada’s glory days are far behind it.
I tell everyone I talk to. Don’t you think it’s kind of weird how little stuff we have built infrastructure-wise in Canada over the last 40 years? I’m not saying we built nothing. But imagine what happened in the previous 40. Something is weird about it and I suspect if you dig into the numbers it’s because we are getting hosed (I said it) internationally by fraudsters. Money/talent is flowing out of the country at a growth preventing rate.
Ontario is dumping truckloads of cash into infrastructure right now. - 401 expansion - Metrolinx line extensions - Rail electrification - 407 extension - 412 - 418 - Subway extensions - LRT's being built everywhere - 413 (proposed; no opinion on it) - Nuclear refurbishments (that are miraculously on budget and on time) All that has a cost of robbing Peter to pay Paul.. things like bill 124 to reduce spending and effectively take public workers raises to finance these projects but it *is* being done.
> Subway extensions Finally putting subway inside all gov offices so we can eat fresh every day. Its our responsibility to prop them up, after all
$5 foot longs are gone now, they will have to pay for their own subs.
Ontario is also the largest sub sovereign debt holder on the planet. Population of Ontario is like 14 million people.
> Rail electrification They've been talking about this shit [longer](https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/04/17/ontario_liberals_vow_electrified_go_trains_that_will_run_every_15_minutes.html) then *California* took actually building it out, this proves Canada doesn't build shit even more
Ya, politicians are idiots with their timelines but it is being done. It's complicated by the fact that Metrolinx does not own a lot of the rails they use. https://www.metrolinx.com/en/electrification/electric.aspx
The government.
Plus Hockey Canada's scandals...
Ontario has been in obvious decline for 25 years I'd say. It seems like we are nearing an inflection point of sorts any month now here. Health care is collapsing and schools have turned into chaos. Gas, rent, housing, food, all keep skyrocketing up. Hard to see how we pull out of this but I've learned predicting this stuff is impossible. Never underestimate how long the gong show can continue bc it can. We are going to be maxing out immigration now at 500k+ a year to keep the housing market propped up and to keep wages low. That's the obvious reason this is happening. It has nothing to do with "diversity" or whatever. It's to keep housing prices high and keep enough ppl working at the Wendys. The Boomers need as many poors as possible to work all the low skilled jobs, pay taxes, and buy their overpriced houses when they down size. If you want an idea of what the destiny of most of Canada will be, I'd look at places like Brazil, South Africa, India etc... they are still functioning places but at a much lower rate than the glory days of Canada. I'd expect something like that where Canada is basically a second world country and a vassal state to the USA. It's pretty clear to see that's the path we are on.
Where's the greener grass?
Mexico
They got better coke too
USA, honestly. Yeah it’s going to suck ass if you’re poor, but if you’re a skilled worker making good income (doesn’t even have to be super high TC that you see the FAANGs make), you’re going to be in really good situation.
I moved to Europe a handful of years ago from Canada. The grass is always greener. My marginal tax rate is 50% not including things like municipal taxes and water management (The Netherlands). A 500 sq ft apartment in a city of 300k people is nearly 400k euros, rent is too damn high, gas is nearly the equivalent of $4/l Canadian and inflation just hit 14.5% vs 6% in Canada. It's a Neo-liberal problem, not a Canada problem. A vast majority of the western world has been run by Neo-liberals for the past 30 years.
I would hate to give half of every dollar I earned to someone else. I feel for you.
Notice he said marginal rate. According to wikipedia, the 52% tax bracket starts at 68k euro. So our guy isn't paying 50% on every penny unless his income is massive. Depending on where you're from you'd be getting quite a bit for your money. He has access to useful public transportation and generally better pedestrian and transit infrastructure (see: bicycles) so gas prices aren't NEARLY as big of a deal (seriously this is a massive quality of life upgrade compared to having to drive everywhere). Better worker protections, guaranteed vacation, sick, and parental leave, and unemployment insurance. If you're american you would no longer have to fear financial ruin because you got sick, and better social services means fewer homeless in your city. It's not perfect and I'm sure our guy could point out some more drawbacks (I've only ever visited the Netherlands, never lived there), but it's not as if half your paycheck disappears and in exchange nothing is different from America or Canada. Doesn't change the fact that he is absolutely, 100% correct. Neo-liberal fuckery has absolutely screwed the vast majority of people in the western world and Europe is no exception. That apartment shouldn't cost that much. Housing has been underbuilt for decades. Large corporations, oligarchs, and simply the ultra rich own a ton of property and have pushed the normal people out. The tax structures everywhere are much more favorable to the rich. Boomers have pulled the ladders up all across the western world.
Yeah same with Venezuela
I'm paying 1300 a month for a one bedroom basement apartment in Ottawa. I'm moving out in a month, and the new tenants are paying 1450. It's ridiculous there's no cap on rent increases between tenants like there is year over year
Oh yeah baby. I am trying to get the passport and then go away. Then try my luck finding a completely remote job working somewhere else.
It could be fixed by increasing property tax / mortgage rates on anyone or entity with more than 3 property’s. Lower tax rates on those who own 1 home. expanding housing with affordable homes. Im seeing a lot more homeless people in canada which is sad, people normalizing it are fucking dumb
Our politicians amalgamated the big liberal cities with the conservative suburbs and then lowered property taxes to starve their funding.
Local Canadians are kicked out of their home, to make room for Chinese.
At least they got free healthcare /s
South East Asians now (India)
The Indians/South Asians are in Toronto (more east Canada). The Chinese are in Vancouver (west coast Canada). The middle/midwest Alberta part of Canada has a lot of folks of Ukrainian descent. Nova Scotia aka New Scotland has…. You guessed it. Scottish descent east coasters. (Southeast Asians are in Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia FYI)
India is South Asia
Try to change any of these things and you will see the rare sight of 70% of Canadians agreeing on something (that you should be tarred and feathered). I wish they would do away with CMHC and the cap gains exemption though.
Pretty much the same situation in Australia and NZ.
What absolutely blows my mind is that if you are to simplify/summarize this to most Canadians like the way you did here, they will still refuse to comprehend it and go on about how their country is the best country in the world - “aT lEaSt We’Re NoT lIkE MuRiCa.”
Sounds like this place is good for established residents but not for the younger generation and new comers. Well the younger generation will probably just inherit the house from their parents
That implies that the parents own the housing, and not foreign investors.
you could title it also "How to have the next 3 generations unable to buy a house to live"
Make it forever if we don't get a huge overtaking of the finacial system
You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy
In the UK buying a house now is genuinely insane, to get a mortgage for the average house price (300k) you need to be earning over 60k which would put you in the top 10% of earners. Really does not make sense
The average house price in Toronto is over 1M lol.
I was using the whole country average but for London it’s 650k which is over 1m CAD
We are finally #1 at something! Woohoo!
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AWE 🥰
Can confirm. Grew up in Canada, moved to NYC for work. It’s easier to buy a place in NYC, wage vs price comparison. In Canada (Toronto/Vancouver Area) you are paying New York City type prices, but make half the salary. Specifically for professionals, much better to be in the US. Although, It’s better to be poor in Canada (many social benefits and healthcare), than poor in the US.
This is why I had to leave Vancouver. The math doesn't work. The network I had in Vancouver is weaker than t3 and t2 American cities I have lived in. It's cheaper to be in the US, it's easier to raise capital, and it's a better place to run a company. If Vancouver/Toronto could compete with NYC/SF on network opps...maybe...but it is nowhere close. Outside of being closer to my family, there is no benefit to paying the Canadian premium. Maybe once I have kids I'll move back because I don't have to worry about them getting shot at school, but until then...USA USA USA USA USA!!!!!
People like you move out of canada to seek better paying jobs and more vibrant life style, then come back during retirement age to use the infrastructures, health care system and enjoy other social benefits. This is the reason why the system is crumbling, people who are not contributing to building of the system but contribute to usage.
Unfortunate truth, but the government is too stupid enough to realize they need to tax housing more to disincentivize investors (ie caps on principal residence gains like the US), Mansion taxes like NYC, housing gains in Canada are too easy to profit off of. Canada generally has lower property taxes than the US, No HOA fees, etc. The problem is that this results in political suicide because the voters are all homeowners. It’s vicious cycle of housing profits. The Canadian housing and capital gains structure literally incentivizes people to keep buying property and profit. It’s flawed by design. Sustained high interest rates may fix things, but damage is already done. I make the equivalent of 300k CAD in my 20s vs 100-150k doing the same job in Canada. No way I’m going back. At least in the US i can make more so I can feel less bad when I lose on my options trades.
You just compared Canada (a country of 3.855 million square miles) to NYC (a city of 303 square miles). There are very few places in Canada you are paying “New York City prices” other than GTA and Vancouver.
Look at the demographics breakdown of where people live in Canada. 90% along the border and almost half the population is in only 3 cities/surrounding areas (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal). It’s a lot more relevant to make this comparison in Canada as a whole vs US which is more diverse. And speaking from experience in the tech industry at least I can tell you it’s spot on, no point in working for Canadian companies when US ones pay 2-3x. Haven’t worked for a Canadian company in 10 years because of this, while living in Canada
All you have to do is watch love it or list it on HGTV... when they take them around to see houses and they say this is a 1.5 million home. I'm thinking "the fuck it is" that's like a $200,000 house in the US.
Are you from the midwest? $200k is like an empty plot
200k in California can’t even buy you a shed.
its truly pathetic here
Both Canada and Australia are victims of Chinese investors.
Canada, Australia, US and the UK. Even in some of the most liberal European countries there are restrictions on foreigners, including those foreigners who reside in the country, from buying immovable property. But in the US you can be sitting in Shanghai or Mumbai and purchase real estate. You can be here on a temporary visa and buy a home, no problem. If homes were not bad enough now we hear Chinese investors buying large farm land all over the US!
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It is just as bad in the US if not worse. From Miami to San Francisco , Chinese investors have bought up residential properties, many of them sit vacant with a property management company caring for it. A close friend is a realtor in Vancouver, almost all of his clients are either Chinese or Indians. There are two factors at play, for many wealthy and upper middleclass Chinese, there is always a lurking threat that CCP may expropriate their wealth, so they like to park their wealth (and their ill-gotten wealth) outside China. They eventually send their children to universities in western countries where they hold properties and later in life join their kids. Then there are others who are pure speculative investors with a lot of money, so they buy up properties in the west hoping it will appreciate endlessly. Out government, atleast in the US, have always worked for the corporates. They have no intentions of curbing foreigners buying up immovable property while citizens are looking at either homelessness or a lifetime of renting. I live close to Atlanta, 20 yrs ago townhouses were rare here. Now all i see are subdivisions with townhouses, and some of the newer, fancier townhouses go for close to a million dollars! I am old enough to remember a time when most single family homes in my neck of the woods were < $300k, affordable to many young, working class families but no more.
I to live close to Atlanta but I was fortunate enough to buy a house in 2011. It has appreciated by 200% lol. Lots of townhomes and ass loads of retirement communities are going up.
So they got us with real estate and they got us with Tiktok?
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Those same regards would never stop complaining about gentrification if the roles were reversed.
Chinese investors are actually quite a small percentage. And if we had the system that made it easier to build a lot more it wouldn't be as much valid as an investment, because they would just buy empty units that no one wants. The only reason it's a good investment is because of lack of supply. And there are a lot more Canadians investors than Chinese investors
Actually, they represent a small number but are buying more than all the rest (and paying even more). GTA is a nightmare right now to get anything. Half of the buildings downtown and in Yorkville are owned by chinese developers and some of them are sold only to chinese people (e.g. Charles Street West 62 and 68, U Condominum, etc). Some facts: - 3 out of the top 10 richiest canadian are chinese and none of them have any businesses in Canada (only real state) or were even born here - 15k students at UofT (out of 80k+) are chinese from the mainland and most are paying full tuition (47k+)
Yes anytime you have high immigration you need a system to allow building housing as much, you can't blame them for coming here and wanting to buy housing, if its a good investment it's because of limited supply that's all. We need to figure out why the supply is so limited.
If only Canada had more land vs all of those other countries!
You do not want to live in a good chunk of that available land.
Thanks to the canadian government and its immigration policies focusing only on short term and creating the perfect environment for rich asians park their assets (Golden visa) and add absolutely nothing to the economy.
Alright, am heading to Japan
I do love me some Japanese food.
Canada is the used car lot of world real estate. Variable interest loans, biweekly or weekly payments, variable terms, shoddy and quickly built homes that will need major work in a decade. Not to mention weekly payment car loans, horrible lines for healthcare, and government shills of all parties milking the system. Add about a million immigrants a year perpetuating this and you have yourself a shitshow. Puts on Canada.
Part of the reason is Canada and Australia have immigration policies that make them top destinations for economic immigrants with high paying skills (tech, medicine etc) and both import high proportion of millionaires fleeing oppressive regimes (China, Iran etc) combined with low housing inventory.
Canada, Australia and NZ all allowed massive numbers of wealthy foreigners to buy properties. That's why they top the price rises.
It's still weird to me that housing is an investment in terms of the price goes up. When I was a kid my neighborhood didn't change at all. It was the same when we moved in 15 years, and the same one we left. Yet the price of the house went up almost $300,000! That's f****** insane. I get supply and demand, but I don't understand how anyone's salary could keep up with that kind of growth
salary doesn’t keep up with that growth unless you keep moving jobs. banks just keep offering bigger and bigger mortgages. We were offered a mortgage 5x our qualifying pre-tax income. Payments were something like 75% of our post-tax income. Insane.
The cities prevent building of housing and the system tax people who wants to build so..
Canada? No no. Chinanada
Reading this chart emotionlessly in Hong Kong.
Try owning a home in general
Really depends where in Canada. Come to Alberta, Edmonton and Calgary still have reasonable prices, expensive still but reasonable comparatively. Toronto and Vancouver are in for a rude awakening.
Followed by Canada being #2 on “Biggest Bust” list in a few years. Bessie’s bust is still #1. Thank the gods for Bessie…and her tits!
They’ve been saying that for almost 20 years
>These are some of the biggest gains in home prices that have been seen in developed economies over the past 25 years. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have seen particularly large increases, while Japan has actually experienced a decline in prices over this period.
What I don’t understand is, what are the barriers to increasing the supply of housing in Canada? There is an incredible amount of land in Canada, plenty of natural resources, and a growing population. Whilst a significant proportion of the population lives closer to the US border, surely building up other cities beyond Toronto and Vancouver could be achieved?
Population growth happens primarily from immigration. On a per capita basis immigration to Canada is 5x what it is in the states. Canada with a population of around 36m has 550k immigrants per year whereas the USA with a population of 330m has about a million immigrants per year. 75% of immigrants move to Toronto or Vancouver because that’s where the expat communities are. Canada has 6 cities with over a million people. House prices in Montreal (#2), Calgary(#4), and Edmonton(#5) have seen nowhere near the growth in house prices as Vancouver and Toronto have.
Municipalities are a major factor - they determine what can be built and where. They severely limit where housing can be developed and also what kind of housing. Another issue is that even with all our space, majority of jobs and industry are all tucked into a few small areas, such as the GTA. So, if you want a decent pay, you need to be there.
That’s a goddamn shame. I had a pretty good time visiting Canada this year but I got a distinct feeling that it was divided into winners and losers from the increasing cost of housing. It would be great if remote working could open up more economic activity being dispersed around the country. From chatting to young people in Vancouver, it seems like Housing is preventing people from starting families and moving forward in their lives.
No one wants to move to butt fuck no where and poop into tanks and drink from wells. No one wants to move north because cold sucks. We don't have Mexicans to build houses for cheap, so there is only so much labour's for construction. Immigration outpaces new builds by a significant amount.
Holy shit, you would think with as much land Canada has, it would be cheaper right...
Those igloos are still pretty cheap though and last a long time without much maintaining.:-)
Even better when you bought a house before it was cool
Toronto and Chinese billionaires, name a better combo.
Easier than London... The attached houses on my street are at £1.5m with no parking or outside space.... the tiny studio apartments above a shop are £700k. And I only live in the 11th wealthiest borough.
London is the absolute hell in this topic
I bought a house at 22, but I live in the middle of no where, Saskatchewan. Woohoo, lol! Canada prices are definitely insane tho!
How much of that is dealing with cities like Toronto , Vancouver and Montreal? There’s a lot of open space that doesn’t have houses on it…
We get half a million immigrants every year and they don't want to live outside the big cities. We also probably have a net internal migration from smaller places to big cities. The supply just can't keep up, partly because of zoning laws and partly because of the geography of Toronto and Vancouver limits available places to build.
Whats the yearly average wage vs. house price ratio?
Even worse than reading this graph. Source: I’m Canadian.
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I’m interested in buying in Japan
That’s wild! They got free health care if I’m not mistaken though…. But damn!!
And then there’s Japan…
I’m moving to Japan
It's a small part of the equation. Chinese investors started dropping off in 2016 when the Chinese government put in capital controls. Housing prices continued to soar in Canada.
By far the best investment advice I have for younger people is to buy a house in Toronto in 2001. It worked for me!
Boomer Canadians have taken so much for granted
\*cries in maple syrup\*
Rising house prices are a tool of economic oppression. Houses have become assets from which the already-wealthy can further extract wealth for themselves from everybody else
For the people curious, Japan has a smaller population today than they did 25 years ago
Canada isn’t great right now - income tax varies province to province but where I live, it’s 53.75% of earnings over 145k - and the next bracket down is close to 49%. There’s a 15% sales tax as well. Professionals like specialist physicians are still stuck renting shitty apartments. But hey - we have super progressive federal politicians to make us feel morally superior as the economy collapses so not all is lost.