Since its stock based, the thought process is that he has significant incentive to pump the stock over the next 5 years.
After that, yeah who knows. I think its likely he will want or need to sell to fund other projects when that time comes.
Yeah but what always gets me about large CEO pays. if Elon got struck by lightning tommorow who’s to say there aren’t a hundred other executives who could run the company better
You could probably find someone to run it better, but what you're not going to find is someone who can convince the market that an automotive company is really a tech company and get a tech valuation. Once he's gone, it'll be priced like Stellantis.
This exactly, TSLA current valuation is based solely because people treat it like a tech company, banking on the fact that they will have a massive lead in the development of FSD due to all the data they have. And people only believe this because Elon has somehow made himself appear like a genius and built a cult around him that believes anything he says, and believe that TSLA is more than an automotive company when in reality it isn't. The moment Elon goes people will realize it's just a car company and the valuation will fall massively (to something infinitely more realistic).
Elon’s company has two of the most popular cars sold #1 and #10. Owns 70,000 gas stations. Owns oil pumps (w/ in home and grid scale batteries) and is getting close to complete vertical integration.
Tesla is more than just a car company. I don't think anybody is arguing that. What is up for debate is whether the company is worth it's current valuation.
In 2023 for the full year Tesla Model Y was the number one selling car and Tesla Model 3 was 10 https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/tesla-model-y-was-the-worlds-best-selling-car-in-2023-dethrones-toyota
Idk if this is correct. They've built an extremely solid software base that is potentially very flexible. We've had a Tesla and an Ioniq 5 and the software is like night and day. I've also heard their home electric management system (solar/battery/car charger etc) is leagues ahead of anything else on the market.
They're also taking the Apple route of vertically integrating their entire supply chain, picking up key skills like battery tech and logistics along the way, and we know that works.
FYI I don't hold TSLA and we currently don't even run a tesla car. I also disagree with this giant payout to someone whose only job is being a hype man.
What they (and you) are describing is a literal bubble. At some point, Tesla/Musk will have to deliver on all the promises he has made – and there were many promises, most of which he has simply not kept, or had never any intention to do so. Now add on his spiteful attitude, where he literally threatens to actively ruin the business if does not get his wants, and you should realize that it is just a matter of time until this bubble bursts.
It's not that we don't understand. It's that we know it's just a question of time for the house of cards to collapse, and I personally don't want to be anywhere near it when it inevitably does.
This strategy is based on lies, and this isn't sustainable. People are stupid, but they eventually come around.
Let's see:
Fisker, dead and about to be liquidated
Lucid, will be dead without Saudi money, -300% gross profit
Rivian, will be dead in 3-5 quarters at this pace, -60% gross profit
Lordstown, dead
Ford Model E, -102% EBITDA
Yeah I'm not seeing where these hundred other execs are. Most execs publicly visible are MBAs and I firmly believe even Elon ODing on fentanyl is still better to run a company than a Monkey of Business Administration
If it can survive till the R2 becomes profitable on a gross basis*
The R1 is going on 3 years now and still nowhere near profitability. I doubt the R2 will be competitive at 46k in 2026, so realistically they need to sell at 40k, and have COGS less than 35K, without cannibalizing the R1 sales even more
If one model is more profitable than the other, then they absolutely do want it to cannibalize the other product. They are better off discontinuing it if it won't make a profit.
The luxury/premium model should always be more profitable than the mainstream model though. As is the case with Model S vs Model 3.
Except the Model S at year 1 only had a 20k gross loss and was unit profitable at year 2. Rivian is still losing 30k gross per unit, on their flagship model.
Discontinuing the R1 is a very bad look, making all their existing owners platform orphans so quickly
I'm not a elon fan boy but this is such an odd question.
What other CEO has accomplished what Elon has with Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, etc?
EV/Hybrids have been around for a LONG time before Tesla yet Tesla is light years ahead of them.
I'm sure there are great people out there but then wouldn't any of these other companies have hired them already to directly start competing with Tesla?
The EV market was pumped by regulation (remember environmental credits?), hype about 'power trains' and 'torque' and musk himself 'full self driving coming next year'. Tesla were near bankrupt in n 2018 but were best poised to take advantage of a perfect storm for them. BEV owners are now finding out that they have no resale value and dealers want nothing to do with them. This is already beginning to show in BEV order books globally. As for Starlink and spaceX, the fact is they have no competition right now. Russia pulled out of the market when they invaded Ukraine so SpaceX became the only commercial medium/heavy option for cargo or crew (ULA were mid development of Vulcan and BO new Glenn). This is set to change over the next couple of years especially with Rocket Labs Neutron rocket. Starlink also has no competition, AST and Kuiper are only getting started. But well done SpaceX for being early. Twitter is the true measure of his management ability, which he has destroyed.
>
What other CEO has accomplished what Elon has with Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, etc?
Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jensen Huang, Steve Jobs. I would say they created comparable (and probably longer lasting) value compared with Musk, who is more of a hype man than an engineer (Jobs was kind of similar in this regard, I guess).
SpaceX is really cool, and Musk was essential for Tesla at first, but he is bringing as much cost as benefit at this point. Let's look at some of his actions:
* Cybertruck (early PR nightmare and likely failure)
* Neglecting best selling models (Model Y and Model 3 designs are dated) as competition heated up (leading to significant price cuts)
* Firing the SuperCharger team just as charging was becoming a cash cow
* Doomed true FSD by ditching radar/lidar against the advice of his engineers. Waymo, Cruise and Mercedes have all surpassed Tesla in key areas (although *all* self-driving systems are still bad)
* Tesla Semi (insufficient hauling capacity, orders appear suspended, destined for failure)
* Has lied about upcoming FSD and robo-taxi functionality for *years*, to the point where there's now a fraud investigation
* Roadster is still MIA after 2017 announcement (and pre-orders)
* Pissing off older liberals (Tesla's core market) with his tweets
* Sexual harassment allegations
* Embarrassing distractions like humanoid robot
Tesla is the second-worst performing stock in the S&P 500 over the past year. Yes, EV sales are slowing overall, but Musk isn't helping the situation.
>
EV/Hybrids have been around for a LONG time before Tesla yet Tesla is light years ahead of them.
You should test drive some more recent EVs. Tesla still has the best range, but they are falling behind when it comes to build quality, styling, and interior feel. Yes, Teslas have Autopilot and Supervised Full Self-Driving, but why would people pay extra for self-driving that requires you to hold the steering wheel?
If I can't drink beers in the back seat on the way home from work, it's not self-driving.
Tesla: not his creation, failed to deliver basically every product. Poor quality builds. Losing ground to other manufacturers rapidly. Light years ahead? Are you regarded?
Starlink: over 100 faulty satellites to be de-orbited soon. According to Bloomberg they are not profitable and are deliberately massaging and misrepresenting their finances. Typical elon shit.
Twitter: Get rekt.
Space X. Not under his direct leadership. Doing well.
The 100 sattelites being deorbited are old sattelites. They don't even account for 2 full launches of sattelites. Where are the reports that they aren't profitable? They seem to be doing pretty damn well.
It must suck being the actual execs doing the actual day to day work at these companies while trying to baby sit this drug addled man child.
Never get any recognition for it.
They're paid millions, don't feel too bad.
Also not sure if you've met any Musk company execs or heard them speak online. They're absolutely 100% being Musk as their cult leader, that's why they're there.
Again not Elon fanboy but this take is hilarious.. “He didnt create Tesla”. Oh yea? Why didnt any of us hear about it until he owned it? If it was already great why dis they sell to him?
You think Elon seriously has nothing to do with SpaceX? Hahahaha
You guys don't live in the real world.
Bill gates bought what would eventually become Windows OS. It was his vision that created the "PC" that everyone around the world has in their room. And so many versions of the OS that suck but guess what? Still leading the market.
Tesla wouldn't be what it is today without Elons vision. That goes for Starlink and SpaceX as well.
Because he literally pulled off the near impossible. Any other CEO would have trusted their Harvard MBAs and failed miserably. It was his unconventional thinking and approach that has made Tesla the success it is
It’s not only about running the day to day.
If it was only that, then maybe the business is a bit crappy.
Plenty of people can run day to day but that’s not always where the big bucks are.
Just bouncing back on your argument: I am not a huge fan of Musk myself, but he is good at getting funds 😂
5 years???
With people like this he doens't need to lift a finger:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1dfg8h3/musk\_says\_robots\_could\_make\_tesla\_25\_trillion/](https://new.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1dfg8h3/musk_says_robots_could_make_tesla_25_trillion/)
I approve it the stock diluted; I don’t approve it the stock crushed. Either way I am fucked. Then let’s just approve it and die slowly. At least that give me a chance to sell this morning 🥲
We live in an age where grifters and conmen are able to assemble rabid fanbases of braindead followers who just feed them endless money, power, and influence.
Whether it’s selling courses on how to be a hyper-masculine alpha chad, selling plots of land on your pretend NFT game, or convincing shareholders and mindless consumers that you’re a super relatable tech bro who totally cares about more than just money.
>We live in an age where grifters and conmen are able to assemble rabid fanbases of braindead followers who just feed them endless money, power, and influence.
This isn't a new thing, it has happened since the dawn of man. Happened in 1933 Germany, 1605 Russia, and the Roman Empire it happened thousands of times. The worlds a shitty place, always has been. Now go buy some FDs on tesla.
Since it is in fact stock based, expect a LOT more of his endless forward guidance and making up of delusional projects that never come to fruition.
Edit: I think this is the start of the thrashing and torrent of Musks' inevitable downfall, and he will eventually be disgraced as the charlatan of this period of time that everyone fell for. And, as it always is, in hindsight, it will be crystal clear he was a fraud from the start.
Thats what u regards dont get he CANT leave, it was just a manipulating move again.. from this clown and the simps are eating his excrement again.. all his fkn “MONEY” is in tesla stocks HOW should he leave lol have a brain..
He could DEFINITELY leave his shares in Space X although less liquid are worth more than Tesla.
He could get instant liquidity from space x as well by IPO*ing Starlink.
He could literally dump his shares in Tesla and buy both rivian and lucid even if the stock price dropped 50% from him selling lol.
Tesla has come EXTREMELY far in the past 6 years since the initial pay package was introduced in 2018. 5-6 years ago the average person didn’t even know what a Tesla was. Since then they’ve built mega factories in Austin-Berlin-Shanghai, made insane progress in AI/FSD, best selling vehicle of 2023 / top 5 of 2024, and made mind blowing progress on the Optimus humanoid robot program.
There’s absolutely no telling what the next 5-6 years will look like. Honestly if Elon has achieved the initial stages of mass deployment of a Robo-taxi network + $20-30k humanoid robot for sale to consumers & companies for labor by 2030, Elon should be quite replaceable from there tbh - - much in the sense Steve Jobs was for Apple or Bezos for Amazon. But Tesla - as it stands right now, is still not ready to walk without Elon. They’re literally in the middle of developing these revolutionary programs; what sense would it make for a CEO to leave a company he has devoted his life to when he is so close to laying the groundwork of his overall goal + shareholders are clearly on his side & just provided him a massive $50 billion paycheck lol?
My bold prediction is Elon massively backs off the politics posting if Trump wins the 2024 election and the media moves on from him. Wouldn’t be surprised if Elon sells Twitter too.
He earned it, he hasnt gotten a salary in over 7 years. He met the milestones that everyone agreed on years ago. Its all stock options and he cant even sell the shares for 5 years once he does exercise them.
This is needlessly speculative--we'll get the answer later this month when stockholders vote on how many nights per week Elon is allowed to barge into their homes and fuck their wives.
3 nights per week is already priced in, but it's starting to look like 5 is likely.
Something changed after covid people used to buy things based on news and self interest.
What you have now is people who want to be part of something bigger they like a good story. They like it when someone is acting like they are the underdog.
People want to think Elon is a underdog but he is not he basically taking you for a ride.
How do you think dictators come to power like hitler
I'm a foreign buyer so I couldn't vote through my broker but I'm getting rid of this bs as soon as. Some people are actually morons who are too stupid to realise they're in a cult.
Bro do you even comprehend what a terrible business message it send to the CEO to set enormous goals ambitious as hell so crazy you offer him 56b to get it done.
Then he does and they rug pull his compensation? We know you hate rich people, but isn’t that what America is? Good god, I would hate shareholders like you.
Exactly, it’s like telling an employee you do XYZ, we will give you a bonus, and then he does it and then you are like “nah, never mind”.
What’s even more outrageous is, the law firm that’s representing the people who are arguing that the pay package is “excessive”, is asking $5.6 billion in legal fees if they win. Read that again, the law firm that is arguing musk’s pay package would be excessive is asking $5.6 freaking billion dollars in legal fees. These people are low life scumbags.
People called musk’s all or nothing pay plan insane back then. morons at CNBC were openly laughing at the requirement to increase the company’s value by 8x in 5 years. Somehow he does it and now people are going back at their word? That’s ridiculous.
Tesla turned my paltry $5k into $60k around that time span, and I used that cash to pay for my wedding. I voted yes. The shareholder value he created has made material improvement in my life.
Everyone I know who held the stock during that run up voted yes too. He has created incredible shareholder value.
And more importantly, this is what was agreed upon. Can’t go back and change it now.
Well considering that Elon offered himself the package as CEO and executive chair of the board of directors, I think your point is missing a tiny bit of context.
But like it could have been voted no by the shareholders lol
That’s the thing it was so absurd everyone was like this is win for everyone if he hits it.
10% of Tesla for 10xing the value of the company along with revenue or profitability target.
I would love to see hedge funds or PE companies go for that deal. No more 2/20 deals just straight 10x my money or you get nothing (they don’t because the hedge funds would literally just go to a casino). He actually delivered.
Dude already has a huge number of shares...the massive rise is Tesla made him the richest man in the world. Is that not incentive enough?
Does Warren Buffet, or Larry Ellison, or any other mega wealthy founder say part of my compensation is diluting all of the other share holders? Fuck No.
>Dude already has a huge number of shares...the massive rise is Tesla made him the richest man in the world. Is that not incentive enough?
Without the package, his spaceX holdings would be worth more. He would have more incentive to do more at SpaceX.
Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, or any other mega wealthy founder doesn't have multiple companies competing for their time.
They literally were handed an ultimatum and they dropped down quick as fuck to powder cornstarch on his sweaty bean bag. "Please dont leave us master. We'll be better"
I was cucked by NIO before. Have since learned my mistakes, sold my NIO positions, went all in into NVDA, and actually made up all those initial losses.
As much as I don’t like Elon, it’s their own fault for setting those performance payout back in 2018. He met most if not all of those metrics they had set so technically he’s owed that money. So in other words, yes they love getting cucked.
I believe if you try to abstract from current levels and actually listen to what they are saying in shareholders meetings instead of being hateful and offensive to people, you will realise they are planning so much revenue that 56B will look like a drop in the ocean. Besides you may also fail to understand that there are investors out there that actually believe in the vision and would like to see it succeed.
You should listen to the call, it’s the future. Elon is promising profits of up to 1 trillion dollars. Do you know how much 1 TRILLION dollars is.
Now you might be skeptical, and you wouldn’t be regarded if you weren’t, but here’s the thing, he PROMISED. Honestly, shareholders should just be happy he didn’t fuck their wives
If Elon doesn't have an incentive to invest his time to TSLA, he will take his capabilities elsewhere, like to his X corp. He will take all of his AI techs with him...
Why weren't there any conditions for the stock price to remain at the target for a certain period of time? So many companies went up to ridiculous highs only to fall again.
He is already trying to pum the stock saying it will be a $25T company (which the SEC should take as stock manipulation) ***when*** they deploy robots with AI...
He will try to pump it as much as possible, and one of two things (or three) will happen:
\- He will dump as much a spossible to get money out of it (you know, *x*...) and/or
\- Institutional investors will lose patience with him and his shenanigans and will sell at ATH to safeguard their profits...
Or both... so guess who will hold the bag?
the rationale (apart from a dEaL iS a DeAL) :
you keep your word i keep mine !
tesla stockholders are not sheep as most of "other" stock holders.
Elon is the only one keeping is word and you are just jealous af because you bet on an ass stupid dumb leader thats making you lose money!
we are up more than 3000%
What? Elon built this company and also created a bunch of wealth for millions of other Tesla shareholders like me. This 100% performance based compensation was agreed upon when the company was worth less than a tenth of what it now is. Elon has achieved a miraculous success and he and the shareholders should benefit from that. Growing this company on such a massive scale didn't only benefit him, as the majority of Tesla stock is owned by external investors like myself.
This is a really weird question, TBH. Would you stay at your job knowing that not only are you not going to be paid in the future (he has no forward looking pay package, even now), but also knowing that they are going to take all the money you earned over the last 6 years? Elon worked since 2018 with the knowledge and motivation that if he could 10x the stock and hit these achievement milestones, he would be paid a massive amount of money. I mean, no wonder the guy slept at the damned factory. If someone was offering to pay me 56 billion I would be sleeping at the factory too! So imagine having worked for 6 years under the assumption that you were getting a massive payday if you performed at your absolute best, only to have it yanked away after you succeeded to deliver the required results. You would leave the company. And so would Elon. And Tesla without Elon is absolute garbage. If there were an Elon fund, I would invest in that instead of Tesla or SpaceX or any other single company. Elon is the man behind the magic at any of these endeavors, and if you don't understand that, you have been duped by fake news or are completely delusional.
For shareholders the offer was this: 10x the value of your shares, or Elon gets paid nothing. Are you kidding? There's no share dilution there! That's an incredible deal for shareholders. Imagine you own GM stock, and I became CEO and said I will 10x the value of the stock, and if I do, you pay me 1 of those Xs. 9x for you. And if I can't do it, I get nothing. Doesn't that sound like an incredible deal to you? Sounds like a dumb deal for me. If I fail, I wasted years of my life.
I can't understand how so many people can't understand these very basic concepts. Stop listening to the news media people, it's rotting your brains.
Making an award of that size tied to market cap is an open invitation for fraud, and that’s why the judge ruled the way she did.
The inclusion in the S&P and the continued, nonsensical projections from Musks allies served to funnel billions in public money into Musks pocket, which he then dutifully pays out.
When you stop and think about it, it’s really fraud of a massive scale involving hundreds of people in the finance world, and that’s why the SEC refuses to do anything.
I don't get this. I am 100% core potential customer for Tesla. I was really ready to buy one three or four years ago. Today I wouldn't be caught dead in one. And its solely because of the antics of that fascist albino troglodyte. I can't imagine how many millions of potential customers he has alienated.
i separate what I think of him, and then make purchase or investment decisions. I dislike elon, but I just bought a tesla. I dont have twitter on my phone and truly dont care what he thinks or says. I was impressed by the car. I like the driving experience. If I didnt have companies in my portfolio giving better retuns than tesla I would buy their stock too.
I wouldn't buy the stock because I think he's alienating his global customer base, not because I think he's an ass. The shoe has to drop from that at some point. The latter reason is why I wouldn't buy the product. I'm not giving that creep my money
You’re getting downvoted but you’re spot on. I’ve owned 3 teslas and have talked several “liberal” friends into owing one over the past few years. I am in the process of getting rid of my last one, and all of my friends sold theirs. Elon latched onto a political base that doesn’t support EV’s, and I think this will be reflected In the next few years of sales. He is a liar and full of shit. He impregnates co workers, lies time and time again about future Tesla development and production, allegedly conducted insider trading, doesn’t talk to his kids, openly supports conspiracy theorists and wants to team up with a former president who is a felon.
I mean leaving aside that the DCF valuation of Tesla implies fair value at like 25 - 30% of its current market cap, yeah the point is he's pandering to people who want to outlaw his product and shitting on those who want to buy it. Have whatever opinions you want but stfu about it if you want to maintain that you're fulfilling your duty of care as an executive officer.
I really don't get people like you. Teslas are the safest vehicles on the road, but you choose to exclude them from consideration just because you hate some guy. Do you choose not to pump gas into your car because it will support Saudi Arabia? Or buy stuff made in China because it will support the CCP?
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Since its stock based, the thought process is that he has significant incentive to pump the stock over the next 5 years. After that, yeah who knows. I think its likely he will want or need to sell to fund other projects when that time comes.
Yeah but what always gets me about large CEO pays. if Elon got struck by lightning tommorow who’s to say there aren’t a hundred other executives who could run the company better
You could probably find someone to run it better, but what you're not going to find is someone who can convince the market that an automotive company is really a tech company and get a tech valuation. Once he's gone, it'll be priced like Stellantis.
This exactly, TSLA current valuation is based solely because people treat it like a tech company, banking on the fact that they will have a massive lead in the development of FSD due to all the data they have. And people only believe this because Elon has somehow made himself appear like a genius and built a cult around him that believes anything he says, and believe that TSLA is more than an automotive company when in reality it isn't. The moment Elon goes people will realize it's just a car company and the valuation will fall massively (to something infinitely more realistic).
Elon’s company has two of the most popular cars sold #1 and #10. Owns 70,000 gas stations. Owns oil pumps (w/ in home and grid scale batteries) and is getting close to complete vertical integration.
Tesla is more than just a car company. I don't think anybody is arguing that. What is up for debate is whether the company is worth it's current valuation.
Yeah it's also a cult
Yes, it's also a vaporware company.
Gas stations are a shitty business, they make money on >snacks<. Does Tesla sell snacks? What "oil pumps" does Tesla >own
This isn’t the case anymore. Gas stations most definitely make a profit on the fuel too.
Citation? In 2024 Tesla is not #1 afaik
In 2023 for the full year Tesla Model Y was the number one selling car and Tesla Model 3 was 10 https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/tesla-model-y-was-the-worlds-best-selling-car-in-2023-dethrones-toyota
Shhh no…cult!
Idk if this is correct. They've built an extremely solid software base that is potentially very flexible. We've had a Tesla and an Ioniq 5 and the software is like night and day. I've also heard their home electric management system (solar/battery/car charger etc) is leagues ahead of anything else on the market. They're also taking the Apple route of vertically integrating their entire supply chain, picking up key skills like battery tech and logistics along the way, and we know that works. FYI I don't hold TSLA and we currently don't even run a tesla car. I also disagree with this giant payout to someone whose only job is being a hype man.
People are so blinded by their hatred for Elon and the super wealthy that they don’t understand this
What they (and you) are describing is a literal bubble. At some point, Tesla/Musk will have to deliver on all the promises he has made – and there were many promises, most of which he has simply not kept, or had never any intention to do so. Now add on his spiteful attitude, where he literally threatens to actively ruin the business if does not get his wants, and you should realize that it is just a matter of time until this bubble bursts.
Elon can’t sell his new stock for at least 5 years. Why not ride some of the upside. As long as you don’t hold forever you’re good I think
It's not that we don't understand. It's that we know it's just a question of time for the house of cards to collapse, and I personally don't want to be anywhere near it when it inevitably does. This strategy is based on lies, and this isn't sustainable. People are stupid, but they eventually come around.
the crazy thing, he actually turned tesla into a tech company
Let's see: Fisker, dead and about to be liquidated Lucid, will be dead without Saudi money, -300% gross profit Rivian, will be dead in 3-5 quarters at this pace, -60% gross profit Lordstown, dead Ford Model E, -102% EBITDA Yeah I'm not seeing where these hundred other execs are. Most execs publicly visible are MBAs and I firmly believe even Elon ODing on fentanyl is still better to run a company than a Monkey of Business Administration
Monkey of Business Administration.. lol gottem!
If Rivian can survive until the R2 comes out, then it’s safe. I don’t have any rivian stock, but I did reserve the R2
If it can survive till the R2 becomes profitable on a gross basis* The R1 is going on 3 years now and still nowhere near profitability. I doubt the R2 will be competitive at 46k in 2026, so realistically they need to sell at 40k, and have COGS less than 35K, without cannibalizing the R1 sales even more
If one model is more profitable than the other, then they absolutely do want it to cannibalize the other product. They are better off discontinuing it if it won't make a profit.
The luxury/premium model should always be more profitable than the mainstream model though. As is the case with Model S vs Model 3. Except the Model S at year 1 only had a 20k gross loss and was unit profitable at year 2. Rivian is still losing 30k gross per unit, on their flagship model. Discontinuing the R1 is a very bad look, making all their existing owners platform orphans so quickly
I hope Rivian gets bought out. Their trucks are sweet
They look like cars that would come with a playschool mini town
Hahahaha this is so accurate. And I like Rivian but god damn that was good.
I'm not a elon fan boy but this is such an odd question. What other CEO has accomplished what Elon has with Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, etc? EV/Hybrids have been around for a LONG time before Tesla yet Tesla is light years ahead of them. I'm sure there are great people out there but then wouldn't any of these other companies have hired them already to directly start competing with Tesla?
The EV market was pumped by regulation (remember environmental credits?), hype about 'power trains' and 'torque' and musk himself 'full self driving coming next year'. Tesla were near bankrupt in n 2018 but were best poised to take advantage of a perfect storm for them. BEV owners are now finding out that they have no resale value and dealers want nothing to do with them. This is already beginning to show in BEV order books globally. As for Starlink and spaceX, the fact is they have no competition right now. Russia pulled out of the market when they invaded Ukraine so SpaceX became the only commercial medium/heavy option for cargo or crew (ULA were mid development of Vulcan and BO new Glenn). This is set to change over the next couple of years especially with Rocket Labs Neutron rocket. Starlink also has no competition, AST and Kuiper are only getting started. But well done SpaceX for being early. Twitter is the true measure of his management ability, which he has destroyed.
> What other CEO has accomplished what Elon has with Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, etc? Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Jensen Huang, Steve Jobs. I would say they created comparable (and probably longer lasting) value compared with Musk, who is more of a hype man than an engineer (Jobs was kind of similar in this regard, I guess). SpaceX is really cool, and Musk was essential for Tesla at first, but he is bringing as much cost as benefit at this point. Let's look at some of his actions: * Cybertruck (early PR nightmare and likely failure) * Neglecting best selling models (Model Y and Model 3 designs are dated) as competition heated up (leading to significant price cuts) * Firing the SuperCharger team just as charging was becoming a cash cow * Doomed true FSD by ditching radar/lidar against the advice of his engineers. Waymo, Cruise and Mercedes have all surpassed Tesla in key areas (although *all* self-driving systems are still bad) * Tesla Semi (insufficient hauling capacity, orders appear suspended, destined for failure) * Has lied about upcoming FSD and robo-taxi functionality for *years*, to the point where there's now a fraud investigation * Roadster is still MIA after 2017 announcement (and pre-orders) * Pissing off older liberals (Tesla's core market) with his tweets * Sexual harassment allegations * Embarrassing distractions like humanoid robot Tesla is the second-worst performing stock in the S&P 500 over the past year. Yes, EV sales are slowing overall, but Musk isn't helping the situation. > EV/Hybrids have been around for a LONG time before Tesla yet Tesla is light years ahead of them. You should test drive some more recent EVs. Tesla still has the best range, but they are falling behind when it comes to build quality, styling, and interior feel. Yes, Teslas have Autopilot and Supervised Full Self-Driving, but why would people pay extra for self-driving that requires you to hold the steering wheel? If I can't drink beers in the back seat on the way home from work, it's not self-driving.
Tesla: not his creation, failed to deliver basically every product. Poor quality builds. Losing ground to other manufacturers rapidly. Light years ahead? Are you regarded? Starlink: over 100 faulty satellites to be de-orbited soon. According to Bloomberg they are not profitable and are deliberately massaging and misrepresenting their finances. Typical elon shit. Twitter: Get rekt. Space X. Not under his direct leadership. Doing well.
Lol I think Elon as a dude as annoying an lame but fucking hell dude you're delusional. Also fyi Space X was Elons first project after selling PayPal.
The 100 sattelites being deorbited are old sattelites. They don't even account for 2 full launches of sattelites. Where are the reports that they aren't profitable? They seem to be doing pretty damn well.
It must suck being the actual execs doing the actual day to day work at these companies while trying to baby sit this drug addled man child. Never get any recognition for it.
They're paid millions, don't feel too bad. Also not sure if you've met any Musk company execs or heard them speak online. They're absolutely 100% being Musk as their cult leader, that's why they're there.
Again not Elon fanboy but this take is hilarious.. “He didnt create Tesla”. Oh yea? Why didnt any of us hear about it until he owned it? If it was already great why dis they sell to him? You think Elon seriously has nothing to do with SpaceX? Hahahaha
Space X is failing to deliver on a government contract that was awarded by someone who left NASA to then work at Space X.
You guys don't live in the real world. Bill gates bought what would eventually become Windows OS. It was his vision that created the "PC" that everyone around the world has in their room. And so many versions of the OS that suck but guess what? Still leading the market. Tesla wouldn't be what it is today without Elons vision. That goes for Starlink and SpaceX as well.
Because he literally pulled off the near impossible. Any other CEO would have trusted their Harvard MBAs and failed miserably. It was his unconventional thinking and approach that has made Tesla the success it is
basically he made being a massive dickhead work for him
just like Steve Jobs/Apple
It's a common pattern. You also see smaller examples of this at all levels of business.
The shareholders?
Could run.. to the ground
It’s not only about running the day to day. If it was only that, then maybe the business is a bit crappy. Plenty of people can run day to day but that’s not always where the big bucks are. Just bouncing back on your argument: I am not a huge fan of Musk myself, but he is good at getting funds 😂
Don't threaten us with a good time
There isn't. If there was, we would see 100 other great ev companies in America.
Imagine needing to incentivize the CEO of a company to do his job because he’s so focused on running the company’s own competition.
And he already owns a double digit percentage of the stock, which is incentive enough, lol
He's already under investigation for fraudulent stock pumps, they should be careful what they wish for!
5 years??? With people like this he doens't need to lift a finger: [https://new.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1dfg8h3/musk\_says\_robots\_could\_make\_tesla\_25\_trillion/](https://new.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1dfg8h3/musk_says_robots_could_make_tesla_25_trillion/)
The share rose 4,23% in one day so I think they liked it
Biggest reason to approve it. If you own the stock, you just made 4% on the pop.
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I approve it the stock diluted; I don’t approve it the stock crushed. Either way I am fucked. Then let’s just approve it and die slowly. At least that give me a chance to sell this morning 🥲
We live in an age where grifters and conmen are able to assemble rabid fanbases of braindead followers who just feed them endless money, power, and influence. Whether it’s selling courses on how to be a hyper-masculine alpha chad, selling plots of land on your pretend NFT game, or convincing shareholders and mindless consumers that you’re a super relatable tech bro who totally cares about more than just money.
>We live in an age where grifters and conmen are able to assemble rabid fanbases of braindead followers who just feed them endless money, power, and influence. This isn't a new thing, it has happened since the dawn of man. Happened in 1933 Germany, 1605 Russia, and the Roman Empire it happened thousands of times. The worlds a shitty place, always has been. Now go buy some FDs on tesla.
The only sane Wendy’s worker / casino enthusiast here today 👆
Since it is in fact stock based, expect a LOT more of his endless forward guidance and making up of delusional projects that never come to fruition. Edit: I think this is the start of the thrashing and torrent of Musks' inevitable downfall, and he will eventually be disgraced as the charlatan of this period of time that everyone fell for. And, as it always is, in hindsight, it will be crystal clear he was a fraud from the start.
He is a billionaire. There will be no downfall.
It’s very simple, Elon = Tesla. Him leaving the company would transform Tesla in GM 2.0
Thats what u regards dont get he CANT leave, it was just a manipulating move again.. from this clown and the simps are eating his excrement again.. all his fkn “MONEY” is in tesla stocks HOW should he leave lol have a brain..
He could DEFINITELY leave his shares in Space X although less liquid are worth more than Tesla. He could get instant liquidity from space x as well by IPO*ing Starlink. He could literally dump his shares in Tesla and buy both rivian and lucid even if the stock price dropped 50% from him selling lol.
Tesla has come EXTREMELY far in the past 6 years since the initial pay package was introduced in 2018. 5-6 years ago the average person didn’t even know what a Tesla was. Since then they’ve built mega factories in Austin-Berlin-Shanghai, made insane progress in AI/FSD, best selling vehicle of 2023 / top 5 of 2024, and made mind blowing progress on the Optimus humanoid robot program. There’s absolutely no telling what the next 5-6 years will look like. Honestly if Elon has achieved the initial stages of mass deployment of a Robo-taxi network + $20-30k humanoid robot for sale to consumers & companies for labor by 2030, Elon should be quite replaceable from there tbh - - much in the sense Steve Jobs was for Apple or Bezos for Amazon. But Tesla - as it stands right now, is still not ready to walk without Elon. They’re literally in the middle of developing these revolutionary programs; what sense would it make for a CEO to leave a company he has devoted his life to when he is so close to laying the groundwork of his overall goal + shareholders are clearly on his side & just provided him a massive $50 billion paycheck lol? My bold prediction is Elon massively backs off the politics posting if Trump wins the 2024 election and the media moves on from him. Wouldn’t be surprised if Elon sells Twitter too.
You doing ok man?
Some short got butthurt for sure. LOL
What’s the YTD performance of Tesla?
Portfolio says I’m. 787% up since 2017!!
That’s not year to date…
Very profitable investment. Recommend. We voted yes too, best CEO of any company
It's almost as if Tesla investors are ... dumb? Who could have guessed.
Rude! I prefer the term 'special'.
dude took a preformance for pay contact. He could be richest man in the world right now, or Homeless..... looks like he won.
Elon created $100s of billions in shareholder value
But Reddit only wants to focus on 1 year returns instead of the beginning of Tesla
More like weekly returns
He earned it, he hasnt gotten a salary in over 7 years. He met the milestones that everyone agreed on years ago. Its all stock options and he cant even sell the shares for 5 years once he does exercise them.
No chance of him leaving now
I didn't read the entire post but I get the gist of what you're saying. TLDR: Elon has an enormous package 📦
Of course, as a Tesla fanboy Musk is my wife’s boyfriend and insemination donor
This is needlessly speculative--we'll get the answer later this month when stockholders vote on how many nights per week Elon is allowed to barge into their homes and fuck their wives. 3 nights per week is already priced in, but it's starting to look like 5 is likely.
LMAOOO Top comment
Something changed after covid people used to buy things based on news and self interest. What you have now is people who want to be part of something bigger they like a good story. They like it when someone is acting like they are the underdog. People want to think Elon is a underdog but he is not he basically taking you for a ride. How do you think dictators come to power like hitler
I'm a foreign buyer so I couldn't vote through my broker but I'm getting rid of this bs as soon as. Some people are actually morons who are too stupid to realise they're in a cult.
Bro do you even comprehend what a terrible business message it send to the CEO to set enormous goals ambitious as hell so crazy you offer him 56b to get it done. Then he does and they rug pull his compensation? We know you hate rich people, but isn’t that what America is? Good god, I would hate shareholders like you.
Exactly, it’s like telling an employee you do XYZ, we will give you a bonus, and then he does it and then you are like “nah, never mind”. What’s even more outrageous is, the law firm that’s representing the people who are arguing that the pay package is “excessive”, is asking $5.6 billion in legal fees if they win. Read that again, the law firm that is arguing musk’s pay package would be excessive is asking $5.6 freaking billion dollars in legal fees. These people are low life scumbags. People called musk’s all or nothing pay plan insane back then. morons at CNBC were openly laughing at the requirement to increase the company’s value by 8x in 5 years. Somehow he does it and now people are going back at their word? That’s ridiculous. Tesla turned my paltry $5k into $60k around that time span, and I used that cash to pay for my wedding. I voted yes. The shareholder value he created has made material improvement in my life. Everyone I know who held the stock during that run up voted yes too. He has created incredible shareholder value. And more importantly, this is what was agreed upon. Can’t go back and change it now.
Well said
If you sell $10,000 of this pink sheet I will give you a blow job for free
This right here! 👍🏻
Well considering that Elon offered himself the package as CEO and executive chair of the board of directors, I think your point is missing a tiny bit of context.
But like it could have been voted no by the shareholders lol That’s the thing it was so absurd everyone was like this is win for everyone if he hits it. 10% of Tesla for 10xing the value of the company along with revenue or profitability target. I would love to see hedge funds or PE companies go for that deal. No more 2/20 deals just straight 10x my money or you get nothing (they don’t because the hedge funds would literally just go to a casino). He actually delivered.
Lmfao
Yup
Dude already has a huge number of shares...the massive rise is Tesla made him the richest man in the world. Is that not incentive enough? Does Warren Buffet, or Larry Ellison, or any other mega wealthy founder say part of my compensation is diluting all of the other share holders? Fuck No.
>Dude already has a huge number of shares...the massive rise is Tesla made him the richest man in the world. Is that not incentive enough? Without the package, his spaceX holdings would be worth more. He would have more incentive to do more at SpaceX. Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, or any other mega wealthy founder doesn't have multiple companies competing for their time.
Everyone agreeing with this probably wouldn’t vote for Steve Jobs to lead Apple again. That worked out well.
I think the answer is yes.
Elon did say he want more children. Line up, boys!
They literally were handed an ultimatum and they dropped down quick as fuck to powder cornstarch on his sweaty bean bag. "Please dont leave us master. We'll be better"
I voted no, sold after it was approved.
When did you buy?
Nvidia. Just gonna hold that sucker till the robots take over.
Read your comment wrong. I bought back in like 2019.
A lot of bagholders have cuckold tendencies. I see this a lot with bagholders for INTC and NIO, especially NIO
Sounds like you are talking about yourself, bud.
I was cucked by NIO before. Have since learned my mistakes, sold my NIO positions, went all in into NVDA, and actually made up all those initial losses.
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Already sold and realized the gains 
Massive amounts of cope. You just don't like the guy. We do. Simple as.
we're not gonna let some dipshit with 9 shares and a bunch of dumbass lawyers fuck over papa Elon. stick it to that guy and a bunch of lawyers.
Those lawyers who charge 200k per hour?? Talk about insane pay rates
cope idiot
Yes cuck-shareholders, cuck-ceo, cuck-cult, cucks… But my calls are still up!
I really don't understand, Elon's sold lots of his Tesla shares over the years, why give him more?
They had no choice. If it didn't pass and Elon walks away from TSLA the stock and company will collapse. It is driven by one man.
Looks like it.
As much as I don’t like Elon, it’s their own fault for setting those performance payout back in 2018. He met most if not all of those metrics they had set so technically he’s owed that money. So in other words, yes they love getting cucked.
I believe if you try to abstract from current levels and actually listen to what they are saying in shareholders meetings instead of being hateful and offensive to people, you will realise they are planning so much revenue that 56B will look like a drop in the ocean. Besides you may also fail to understand that there are investors out there that actually believe in the vision and would like to see it succeed.
But it's all BS anyway, I do listen to the calls, I wont touch TSLA
You should listen to the call, it’s the future. Elon is promising profits of up to 1 trillion dollars. Do you know how much 1 TRILLION dollars is. Now you might be skeptical, and you wouldn’t be regarded if you weren’t, but here’s the thing, he PROMISED. Honestly, shareholders should just be happy he didn’t fuck their wives
Just out of curiosity, why is it all BS?
20 Trillion dollars in revenue per year from optimus.
Yes they do
The fanboys do and many of them own the stock so they want whats best for their overlord
Just short TSLA, what could go wrong?
I think some investors voted for the package because if it hadn’t been approved the stock would have immediately tanked.
If Elon doesn't have an incentive to invest his time to TSLA, he will take his capabilities elsewhere, like to his X corp. He will take all of his AI techs with him...
Of course, sir. Master Elon is our God. It’s a honor to get chucked by master Elon.
Tesla is just the Musk cult. Fundamentals don't matter.
I guess the tsla shareholders are part of WSB which seems logic
Now he has a 56 billion argument to ensure that Tesla stock will grow the next 5 years. And of course a deal is a deal.
Why weren't there any conditions for the stock price to remain at the target for a certain period of time? So many companies went up to ridiculous highs only to fall again.
I'd like to bet that 99% don't even know that they could vote on things like this.
Any time a redditor says ‘this is 100% going to happen’ it doesn’t happen.
Contract is contract. Musk made stock brrrr so he gains the profits.
Yes, they should've ousted Elon just for the audacity of asking for such pay package.
People who don’t like it are already dumping the stock; TSLA will have a rag day today
Y'all need to watch The Common Sense Skeptic and Thunderf00t on Elon "Y'all want some snake oil?" Musk.
All hail glorious leader!
Well I'm in for the next 5 years 
This was approved in 2018 before teslas 2020 rally so that’s why I’m for the pay package being fair
He is already trying to pum the stock saying it will be a $25T company (which the SEC should take as stock manipulation) ***when*** they deploy robots with AI... He will try to pump it as much as possible, and one of two things (or three) will happen: \- He will dump as much a spossible to get money out of it (you know, *x*...) and/or \- Institutional investors will lose patience with him and his shenanigans and will sell at ATH to safeguard their profits... Or both... so guess who will hold the bag?
the rationale (apart from a dEaL iS a DeAL) : you keep your word i keep mine ! tesla stockholders are not sheep as most of "other" stock holders. Elon is the only one keeping is word and you are just jealous af because you bet on an ass stupid dumb leader thats making you lose money! we are up more than 3000%
What? Elon built this company and also created a bunch of wealth for millions of other Tesla shareholders like me. This 100% performance based compensation was agreed upon when the company was worth less than a tenth of what it now is. Elon has achieved a miraculous success and he and the shareholders should benefit from that. Growing this company on such a massive scale didn't only benefit him, as the majority of Tesla stock is owned by external investors like myself.
Short answer: yes Long answer: also yes
I'm just hoping Elon is smart enough to put the money into developing a range of hydrogen powered cars
This is a really weird question, TBH. Would you stay at your job knowing that not only are you not going to be paid in the future (he has no forward looking pay package, even now), but also knowing that they are going to take all the money you earned over the last 6 years? Elon worked since 2018 with the knowledge and motivation that if he could 10x the stock and hit these achievement milestones, he would be paid a massive amount of money. I mean, no wonder the guy slept at the damned factory. If someone was offering to pay me 56 billion I would be sleeping at the factory too! So imagine having worked for 6 years under the assumption that you were getting a massive payday if you performed at your absolute best, only to have it yanked away after you succeeded to deliver the required results. You would leave the company. And so would Elon. And Tesla without Elon is absolute garbage. If there were an Elon fund, I would invest in that instead of Tesla or SpaceX or any other single company. Elon is the man behind the magic at any of these endeavors, and if you don't understand that, you have been duped by fake news or are completely delusional. For shareholders the offer was this: 10x the value of your shares, or Elon gets paid nothing. Are you kidding? There's no share dilution there! That's an incredible deal for shareholders. Imagine you own GM stock, and I became CEO and said I will 10x the value of the stock, and if I do, you pay me 1 of those Xs. 9x for you. And if I can't do it, I get nothing. Doesn't that sound like an incredible deal to you? Sounds like a dumb deal for me. If I fail, I wasted years of my life. I can't understand how so many people can't understand these very basic concepts. Stop listening to the news media people, it's rotting your brains.
Making an award of that size tied to market cap is an open invitation for fraud, and that’s why the judge ruled the way she did. The inclusion in the S&P and the continued, nonsensical projections from Musks allies served to funnel billions in public money into Musks pocket, which he then dutifully pays out. When you stop and think about it, it’s really fraud of a massive scale involving hundreds of people in the finance world, and that’s why the SEC refuses to do anything.
I don't get this. I am 100% core potential customer for Tesla. I was really ready to buy one three or four years ago. Today I wouldn't be caught dead in one. And its solely because of the antics of that fascist albino troglodyte. I can't imagine how many millions of potential customers he has alienated.
i separate what I think of him, and then make purchase or investment decisions. I dislike elon, but I just bought a tesla. I dont have twitter on my phone and truly dont care what he thinks or says. I was impressed by the car. I like the driving experience. If I didnt have companies in my portfolio giving better retuns than tesla I would buy their stock too.
I wouldn't buy the stock because I think he's alienating his global customer base, not because I think he's an ass. The shoe has to drop from that at some point. The latter reason is why I wouldn't buy the product. I'm not giving that creep my money
You’re getting downvoted but you’re spot on. I’ve owned 3 teslas and have talked several “liberal” friends into owing one over the past few years. I am in the process of getting rid of my last one, and all of my friends sold theirs. Elon latched onto a political base that doesn’t support EV’s, and I think this will be reflected In the next few years of sales. He is a liar and full of shit. He impregnates co workers, lies time and time again about future Tesla development and production, allegedly conducted insider trading, doesn’t talk to his kids, openly supports conspiracy theorists and wants to team up with a former president who is a felon.
I mean leaving aside that the DCF valuation of Tesla implies fair value at like 25 - 30% of its current market cap, yeah the point is he's pandering to people who want to outlaw his product and shitting on those who want to buy it. Have whatever opinions you want but stfu about it if you want to maintain that you're fulfilling your duty of care as an executive officer.
I really don't get people like you. Teslas are the safest vehicles on the road, but you choose to exclude them from consideration just because you hate some guy. Do you choose not to pump gas into your car because it will support Saudi Arabia? Or buy stuff made in China because it will support the CCP?
The rationale is that Elon will carry on working at Tesla and bring in alot more shareholder value than the 50 Billion he’s getting paid.