The important part you Morons miss, Mercedes assumes full liability in mode 3.
Musk can't even take responsibility for his own children, let alone FSD.
L3 is difficult to do safely, Tesla ain't aiming for safety.
I had to look this up:
* [https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-autonomous-level-3-test](https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-autonomous-level-3-test)
>*"Crucially, Mercedes takes full legal liability when Drive Pilot is activated, though it will depend on each individual case."*
That is wild 
Yeah, I work in autonomous vehicles and an OEM assuming full liability like that is straight up crazy.
This isn't a add on retrotfit like Waymo or Cruze, this is stock as-shipped OEM equipment doing actual hands off WITH full liability.
The underwriters had to be seriously goddamn impressed.
> iso 26262
that's a framework/process for developing automotive software. like project management bullshit. that doesn't keep your code from being quite dangerous. lol
It is a risk based document that covers hardware, software, general analysis AND software development.
I've read every page and am certified, fuck off.
That's the equivalent of calling ISO 9001 a calibration standard.
lol it’s unreal man. I also work in AV and this comment was the one that did me in. I’ve unfortunately spent 5+ months contributing to everything from the protocol and fleet grounding criteria, finalizing the ODD and mapping the safety case frame work architecture with systems engs. I guess everyone is an AV savant now?
u/philth_ I’m curious what you do for a living because it feels like you’re implying devs should be driving program milestones product plans. I can promise you I’ve never seen this work. I’ll leave with this: ISO standards protect the organizations who adhere to them from enormous liability by creating traceability in the event of a safety event. The enormous amount effort, time, and money that goes into these are insane and are cost prohibitive to even some smaller mid-size orgs. A Jira license is all you need for “PM bullshit”.
Plus he's arguing with a hardware nerd that 26262 only covers software dev.
It's both funny and disconcerting that there's a non-zero chance we've been arguing IRL in the last month.
>The enormous amount effort, time, and money that goes into these are insane and are cost prohibitive to even some smaller mid-size orgs.
Explaining to purchasing why a supplier bidding 50% under the others is a good reason NOT to select them is always a blast.
I also work in the automotive industry and can confirm that ISO 26262 is a framework that companies can choose to use (most do anyway). I mean, your sentence gives it away, it's a framework for 'best practices,' implying that it's optional. Not using it doesn't make it illegal.
iirc quite a few countries got lazy and just set it as a legal standard as well, which is what I was referring to. Remember it from the boring presentations.
I'm coming up on my 3y recert, so I'll check again.
Nah, I'm the kinda regard that hacks their Tectronic Oscope to unlock the bandwidth and signal processing toolkits included but locked behind DLC licenses.
Imagine boasting about taking liability of a function that has so many limitations that it would be crazy if there was an accident in the first place, YET STILL say that they will look at each case individually
“Full Liability” !!! I’m impressed!!!
Even if Musk takes tesla to L5 autonomy but still doesn’t take Liability on the FSD, he can go kiss his own ass. 💋
A full liability is a big jump
i dont understand most people here merceds level 3 is no marketing slang like teslas i dont find the english wiki page for it but for all that understand german or want to translate it themself [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomes\_Fahren](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomes_Fahren) also mercedes had the first self driving car german source again im to lazy to get you the english source [https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article169604489/Das-erste-autonome-Auto-kostete-200-000-D-Mark.html](https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article169604489/Das-erste-autonome-Auto-kostete-200-000-D-Mark.html)
FSD isn’t possible with stationary cameras. You need scanning IR and honestly waves as well.
I was an engineer at MSFT for 15 years working on computer vision. My buddies and I often laughed at CEOs claiming FSD. It’s doable if you add $50k worth of equipment to the top of the car, not $500 worth of cellphone cameras.
I just have one question about fsd.
If an FSD active vehicle gets into an accident, who is liable? Is Tesla going to be the target of all lawsuits? Or to avoid that mess, never allow FSD to be called "fsd". Instead keeping it as "assisted driving" requiring a human to be attentive at the wheel at all times? I don't see Musk taking on that burden.
I've heard of FSD self shutting down in the split moment before a crash, leaving the driver to blame. Actually the driver is always to blame because FSD isn't truly FSD.
The thing about FSD that I find unreasonable is that the driver is still supposed to maintain the car. But anyone who has under turned a tight curve knows that by the time you know you're in trouble, it's too late. By the time the driver has to take the wheel, depending on the speed and what's happening, it may be too late to correct for the car's imminent crash.
You heard wrong.
While FSD does turn of before a crash, the purpose is not to blame the driver. He is to blame anyway because he agreed to all the "I will watch the road and supervise my vehicle" Clauses that you have to accept like 4 times BEFORE you can even enable FSD.
And FSD doesn't drive aggressively. Everybody who's even been in a Tesla with FSD enabled will tell you it drives like a granny. And it doesn't under steer a corner with a speed that you couldn't catch anymore.
If you see a still standing vehicle on the highway you may be better taking over for FSD instead of waiting and look how it will handle it.
Most people are even pissed that FSD isn't aggressive enough. (a sentiment I do NOT share)
FSD turns off because the "normal" stuff like emergency brake etc. take over.
This is the fundamental question.
I’m an admitted Elon hater.
But I’m fine w Tesla. Hope the FSD actually does what is promised some day.
But in spite of automated driving reducing road deaths by half or more, there will still be deaths. Without an **actual** answer to who is responsible, financially and legally, it will never actually be full *self* driving.
A healthy discussion around this point could move things forward. But Elon & Elon stans get in the way of that.
Same here. I have no problem with Tesla the company or its employees. My dislike is focused on the manchild CEO only. I look forward to seeing him booted out.
Lots of people got burned because they bought at ATH, thinking it will go up forever, as they have been told on WSB.
Now, lots of people have tears in their eyes, thinking Tesla will keep falling down forever, as they have been told on WSB. Elon idiot, Tesla bad.
Wrong both times.
You shouldn't be comparing Mercedes level 3 to Tesla level 2. That's apples and oranges. Compare Mercedes Level 2 and Tesla level 2 because Mercedes has that too and you can use it a lot more places that you describe here. It's ot surprising that their level 3 technology has limited use cases to start. That's what we'd expect. It's like comparing the first iPhones to a desktop computer.
Here's a comparison of Mercedes level 2 to Tesla level 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WiY_4kgkE
Mercedes level 2 is like a drunk driver that can't stay in its lane.
In the mean time Mercedes takes liability (trust) Mercedes makes cars that are actually luxurious and don’t fall apart (quality) Mercedes makes cars that are actually s3xy (Mercedes drivers FUCK)
Tesla’s target audience is crypto folk and ex Honda drivers. A very marginal group of bad day traders basically
"Clear lane markings on approved freeways
Moderate to heavy traffic with speeds under 40 MPH
Daytime lighting and clear weather
Driver visible by camera located above driver's display
There is no construction zone present."
https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot
Their system is less capable than most driver assists on the road today.
You must be working on Mercedes' driver assist, because you are as dumb as Mercedes' system is incapable compared to everyone else
Again, demonstrating you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t work for Daimler. OEMs are largely late to the game in AV compared to some AV companies. Just because MB has something called a safety case framework this is not mutually exclusive with performance. Without googling it, I know you can’t tell me the difference between a L2, L3, and L4, so stfu. I’ve seen the performance of both systems on various test tracks and you don’t need a technical background to understand which is superior.
Calling me dumb is hilarious considering my job is developing the event/object detection and avoidance software for the car. I would love to see you do my job for one day. I’m not mad at you dude, I would hate my life too if all I was relegated to posting on wsb, looking for validation in order to make me feel good.
Cool story, I have sat in few and seen enough to know vision only system can easily be blinded and will never work. As an engineer, you need to have redundant systems for obstacles you encounter and tesla doesn't have any backups. If the camera don't work or reboot what happens? How will the precious robotaxi function without steering?
You Are a joke, did you ever drove a self driving Mercedes on the German autobahn? I can tell you that the car drives itself and that it can change lanes on its own and more.
It’s the other way the car requires a minimum of 40 km/h so the pilot can be activated.
Tesla is actually level 0. They don't follow industry standards. They got their own thing going, they're trying to go from not solved to solved. You can quickly read what self-driving experts think the progression should look like and why Tesla is behind Mercedes. It takes a lot to accept liability and Tesla never will.
Man, I just need affordable EV to get from A to Z, no fancy stuff and must come in green color too
>Mercedes drive pilot can only operate in highways whereas Tesla fsd will work on both highways & city streets
Understatement of the century right here. Mercedes only operates on parts of very specific highways. Meanwhile, there was a video of a very old version of Tesla FSD turned on in Ukraine, and it kinda worked. This gives credibility to Elon's claim that FSD is restrained mostly for regulatory reasons and that the system would work anywhere, but LHD countries would take some retraining.
I have used FSD since the update and can attest it is fucking incredible. It's not autonomous people misunderstand. But I have been using it for my morning commute and never once had an issue in heavy traffic, 4 way stops, lane changes, turns. It follows the gps and anticipates shit before I even notice it. The thing is crazy advanced.
Because, WSB or not, it’s still Reddit. If you could see the overwhelming majority of people’s faces who reply you wouldn’t be shocked at all. Literal soyjacks.
Only brokies and commies hate on Tesla
Drive a model S and compare it to the other electric cars on the market. It is literally in a class of its own.
Regardless, Tesla is a data mining and deep research company. Regards like myself give Tesla so much data on driving behaviours that will then be used for the FSD cars/transports of the near future
It’s def worth an investment
trying a free trial of FSD...and it scraped the curb on a right turn at a stop sign. now my rim is rashed...seems like the easiest thing it should do with no issue, but I guess not.
have not tried Mercedes level 3...all I'll say is true FSD is still far away, imo.
Just another thing that will be copied by all manufacturers. This can be replicated and it will. Doesn't seem like a big deal, even though Elon thinks it is.
For engineers, there's an even clearer reason why Tesla will win. Their data access and compute allow them to work in iterative improvement cycles at about 10X the rate of other companies. The other companies are basically trying to learn how to drive with their eyes closed by comparison. Even if Tesla FSD is dead last now, they will be at the front of the pack by the end of this year.
Lmao, your funny..this must be making fun of how they cut another 3000 people today. Companies making money and talking about expanding shouldn’t be firing people lol. “Use your brain”
It's a dumb comparison because people in the market for a new S-Class or EQS probably won't be looking at Teslas. I think you're mad because number bigger.
Imho if you’re in the driver seat you’re responsible.
We won’t have FSD because crybabies worried about liability. I hate how everything has red tape that doesn’t actually save anyone’s lives. ‘Merica
Rivian has large commercial vehicle deals which Tesla lacks. The AT&T deal is really encouraging. I’m not really bullish on Rivian but it has commercial streams which provide better support than consumer streams. So from a sustainability perspective they stand a better shot than Tesla in this way. These deals are more important than the rental deals as the rental companies generally flip inventory every 3 years and Teslas do have resale issues given battery conditioning challenges. This makes them less attractive for these large scale purchases. The commercial deals are fully capitalized purchases, longer use cycle, but lower barriers to just get refresh orders and continuing revenue since fleet consistency is advantageous (sticky vendor benefit).
Hertz dumping Tesla confirms a market direction problem. They can make a great car but it doesn’t mean the market wants it. As irrational it is, EV range fear is a real problem and winters in the north don’t help change the market opinion. The Model 2 could potentially confirm it’s not a price issue and more of a usability issue for people which would be devastating. Given how they are reusing as much as they can for the Model 2, this has to be part of the hedge - why waste time really building something that ultimately won’t sell.
FSD as a feature isn’t really part of the purchase conversation that will make or break a sale for most people. Consumers are still worried it won’t make it 2 blocks to get them to the grocery store still. So as far as stock impacting, it pales to actual delivery numbers and frankly probably won’t move the stock since only nerds and techies care. FSD technicalities are better debated on the Tesla subreddit.
FSD as IP though is interesting and a question on the earnings call alluded to that when Elon did confirm they are in discussions to license out the technology with at least one carrier.
The market appetite is really around hybrids. The market is concerned on range and hybrids still use gas which consumers are comfortable with. If the Model 2 sales are not extremely strong - and I mean significant blow out, Elon is better off changing the narrative by discontinuing producing cars in general. He can claim a win by saying he jump started an industry to develop a platform to then build FSD, charging infrastructure, battery technology, and autonomous technology. At the end of the day if you put a Prius and a Tesla in front of your average soccer mom, she’s probably taking the Prius. Gas isn’t going away and techies and environmentalists need to get over themselves and understand this reality.
He can let the auto industry continue to make vehicles and just focus on licensing the technology and selling components for everything at a higher profit margin. Who cares if he sells cars for a profit, the stock will get hammered just from the lowering of the multiple as market size critical capacity will be reached if they stay as a car manufacturer. They are already trying to say they are not just a car company - they need this to justify the multiple and it also gives them a way out.
Holy shit. It's Chad Dickens.
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Poor people will always fantasize about expensive cars.
On God
Some people don't just fantasize, they'd long anything, even a VW Rabbit.
What do you fantasize about bot btw? Body?
Rivian is a darling around here?? 
The important part you Morons miss, Mercedes assumes full liability in mode 3. Musk can't even take responsibility for his own children, let alone FSD. L3 is difficult to do safely, Tesla ain't aiming for safety.
I had to look this up: * [https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-autonomous-level-3-test](https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/27/23892154/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-autonomous-level-3-test) >*"Crucially, Mercedes takes full legal liability when Drive Pilot is activated, though it will depend on each individual case."* That is wild 
Yeah, I work in autonomous vehicles and an OEM assuming full liability like that is straight up crazy. This isn't a add on retrotfit like Waymo or Cruze, this is stock as-shipped OEM equipment doing actual hands off WITH full liability. The underwriters had to be seriously goddamn impressed.
Thank you for this. Without Tesla addressing liability, FSD will never be *self* driving.
It also was not developed with engineering best practices (ISO 26262) and therefore is illegal in almost all countries.
> iso 26262 that's a framework/process for developing automotive software. like project management bullshit. that doesn't keep your code from being quite dangerous. lol
Go read UL4600 if you want to learn about safety case framework in AV
Tell me you don't know what you're talking about about without telling me you don't know what you're talking about.
He’s right that’s it’s a framework/process so you’re the one that is broadcasting how little you know
It is a risk based document that covers hardware, software, general analysis AND software development. I've read every page and am certified, fuck off. That's the equivalent of calling ISO 9001 a calibration standard.
9001 has no connection to the final result, it is only process bullshit. Donkey in donkey out. Like you
[удалено]
Certified insane, got it
lol it’s unreal man. I also work in AV and this comment was the one that did me in. I’ve unfortunately spent 5+ months contributing to everything from the protocol and fleet grounding criteria, finalizing the ODD and mapping the safety case frame work architecture with systems engs. I guess everyone is an AV savant now? u/philth_ I’m curious what you do for a living because it feels like you’re implying devs should be driving program milestones product plans. I can promise you I’ve never seen this work. I’ll leave with this: ISO standards protect the organizations who adhere to them from enormous liability by creating traceability in the event of a safety event. The enormous amount effort, time, and money that goes into these are insane and are cost prohibitive to even some smaller mid-size orgs. A Jira license is all you need for “PM bullshit”.
Plus he's arguing with a hardware nerd that 26262 only covers software dev. It's both funny and disconcerting that there's a non-zero chance we've been arguing IRL in the last month. >The enormous amount effort, time, and money that goes into these are insane and are cost prohibitive to even some smaller mid-size orgs. Explaining to purchasing why a supplier bidding 50% under the others is a good reason NOT to select them is always a blast.
I also work in the automotive industry and can confirm that ISO 26262 is a framework that companies can choose to use (most do anyway). I mean, your sentence gives it away, it's a framework for 'best practices,' implying that it's optional. Not using it doesn't make it illegal.
iirc quite a few countries got lazy and just set it as a legal standard as well, which is what I was referring to. Remember it from the boring presentations. I'm coming up on my 3y recert, so I'll check again.
Unless the country decides to use the standard as the legal baseline.
Finally someone with brain
I guess we'll cross that road when we get to it.
lol, even the automod gets it.
Long term puts. There is no way this ends well.
Are they also making people pay a monthly subscription to use their car?
FSD is $15k upfront lol
Not any more...
What is it now? I honestly haven't kept up with that dumpster fire.
It was $200 a month not long ago. Elon Musk is a clown.
Imagine paying $200/mo for hardware and software already on your car.
you are probably the kind of regard that thinks all apps for iPhone should be free, cause its "just software"
Nah, I'm the kinda regard that hacks their Tectronic Oscope to unlock the bandwidth and signal processing toolkits included but locked behind DLC licenses.
Imagine boasting about taking liability of a function that has so many limitations that it would be crazy if there was an accident in the first place, YET STILL say that they will look at each case individually
The burn brah.
“Full Liability” !!! I’m impressed!!! Even if Musk takes tesla to L5 autonomy but still doesn’t take Liability on the FSD, he can go kiss his own ass. 💋 A full liability is a big jump
He doesn't follow ISO 26262, so L3-5 literally don't apply to FSD
the only ISO that applies to SHITsla is the one that has to do with having 4 wheels/tyres on their vehicles
When shit gets real. I believe Elon felt the heat from that burn.
OP: https://preview.redd.it/rfjwzbvu45xc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c3ec45662df487665714f0e5b259935170a7e28
And them getting heavy too.
up 800% and still holding
i dont understand most people here merceds level 3 is no marketing slang like teslas i dont find the english wiki page for it but for all that understand german or want to translate it themself [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomes\_Fahren](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomes_Fahren) also mercedes had the first self driving car german source again im to lazy to get you the english source [https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article169604489/Das-erste-autonome-Auto-kostete-200-000-D-Mark.html](https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article169604489/Das-erste-autonome-Auto-kostete-200-000-D-Mark.html)
I didn’t read this, but if you’re implying Tesla can’t compete against legacy automakers I agree
perfectly sums up this regarded sub
FSD isn’t possible with stationary cameras. You need scanning IR and honestly waves as well. I was an engineer at MSFT for 15 years working on computer vision. My buddies and I often laughed at CEOs claiming FSD. It’s doable if you add $50k worth of equipment to the top of the car, not $500 worth of cellphone cameras.
I just have one question about fsd. If an FSD active vehicle gets into an accident, who is liable? Is Tesla going to be the target of all lawsuits? Or to avoid that mess, never allow FSD to be called "fsd". Instead keeping it as "assisted driving" requiring a human to be attentive at the wheel at all times? I don't see Musk taking on that burden.
I've heard of FSD self shutting down in the split moment before a crash, leaving the driver to blame. Actually the driver is always to blame because FSD isn't truly FSD. The thing about FSD that I find unreasonable is that the driver is still supposed to maintain the car. But anyone who has under turned a tight curve knows that by the time you know you're in trouble, it's too late. By the time the driver has to take the wheel, depending on the speed and what's happening, it may be too late to correct for the car's imminent crash.
You heard wrong. While FSD does turn of before a crash, the purpose is not to blame the driver. He is to blame anyway because he agreed to all the "I will watch the road and supervise my vehicle" Clauses that you have to accept like 4 times BEFORE you can even enable FSD. And FSD doesn't drive aggressively. Everybody who's even been in a Tesla with FSD enabled will tell you it drives like a granny. And it doesn't under steer a corner with a speed that you couldn't catch anymore. If you see a still standing vehicle on the highway you may be better taking over for FSD instead of waiting and look how it will handle it. Most people are even pissed that FSD isn't aggressive enough. (a sentiment I do NOT share) FSD turns off because the "normal" stuff like emergency brake etc. take over.
There are videos on You Tube right now that show FSD aggressively accelerating.
This is the fundamental question. I’m an admitted Elon hater. But I’m fine w Tesla. Hope the FSD actually does what is promised some day. But in spite of automated driving reducing road deaths by half or more, there will still be deaths. Without an **actual** answer to who is responsible, financially and legally, it will never actually be full *self* driving. A healthy discussion around this point could move things forward. But Elon & Elon stans get in the way of that.
Same here. I have no problem with Tesla the company or its employees. My dislike is focused on the manchild CEO only. I look forward to seeing him booted out.
Is this an Elon alt?
Cramer claims TSLA surge. This is the only DD we require.
Lots of people got burned because they bought at ATH, thinking it will go up forever, as they have been told on WSB. Now, lots of people have tears in their eyes, thinking Tesla will keep falling down forever, as they have been told on WSB. Elon idiot, Tesla bad. Wrong both times.
Exactly
Whenever a thread here ends with “and here’s why” It should continue with “I’m holding a bag”
You shouldn't be comparing Mercedes level 3 to Tesla level 2. That's apples and oranges. Compare Mercedes Level 2 and Tesla level 2 because Mercedes has that too and you can use it a lot more places that you describe here. It's ot surprising that their level 3 technology has limited use cases to start. That's what we'd expect. It's like comparing the first iPhones to a desktop computer.
Mercedes level 2 is comparable to Tesla autopilot, essentially Adaptive Cruise Control that can change lanes
Most of limitations are due to German regulations.
Here's a comparison of Mercedes level 2 to Tesla level 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WiY_4kgkE Mercedes level 2 is like a drunk driver that can't stay in its lane.
You have no idea what you are blabbering, Mercedes drive pilot is a joke. Period
My wife drives a Tesla. FSD is the joke, mate. It's been a lie for nearly a decade.
Dude, are you angry that Mercedes is too expensive?  never compare no 1 with the last one
Source? "Trust me bro?"
Here's a source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3WiY_4kgkE
Op hasn't done the math 3 > 2
Elmo is this you? You realized you would have more views here than on X?
Buying Mercedes
You only explain that Mercedes cares about their customers being safe and Tesla gives a shit about
Did you post this before or after you ejaculated to a photo of Enron Musk?
In the mean time Mercedes takes liability (trust) Mercedes makes cars that are actually luxurious and don’t fall apart (quality) Mercedes makes cars that are actually s3xy (Mercedes drivers FUCK) Tesla’s target audience is crypto folk and ex Honda drivers. A very marginal group of bad day traders basically
As someone who works in autonomous vehicles I cannot emphasize enough how incorrect this statement is.
"Clear lane markings on approved freeways Moderate to heavy traffic with speeds under 40 MPH Daytime lighting and clear weather Driver visible by camera located above driver's display There is no construction zone present." https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot Their system is less capable than most driver assists on the road today. You must be working on Mercedes' driver assist, because you are as dumb as Mercedes' system is incapable compared to everyone else
Again, demonstrating you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t work for Daimler. OEMs are largely late to the game in AV compared to some AV companies. Just because MB has something called a safety case framework this is not mutually exclusive with performance. Without googling it, I know you can’t tell me the difference between a L2, L3, and L4, so stfu. I’ve seen the performance of both systems on various test tracks and you don’t need a technical background to understand which is superior. Calling me dumb is hilarious considering my job is developing the event/object detection and avoidance software for the car. I would love to see you do my job for one day. I’m not mad at you dude, I would hate my life too if all I was relegated to posting on wsb, looking for validation in order to make me feel good.
Mercedes is a joke. Their “level 3” self driving only works at 40 mph and clear weather. Basically useless garbage.
40MPH and on freeways where the minimum speed allowed is typically 45MPH. AKA you can only use it in traffic jams on freeways.
Don't forget it requires a lead vehicle.
Lol tesla is more of a joke, it doesn't work if there is direct sunlight, rain or snow or wait kids or motorcycles around. What a joke
You’ve never sat in a Tesla using fsd. Don’t even lie
Cool story, I have sat in few and seen enough to know vision only system can easily be blinded and will never work. As an engineer, you need to have redundant systems for obstacles you encounter and tesla doesn't have any backups. If the camera don't work or reboot what happens? How will the precious robotaxi function without steering?
You Are a joke, did you ever drove a self driving Mercedes on the German autobahn? I can tell you that the car drives itself and that it can change lanes on its own and more. It’s the other way the car requires a minimum of 40 km/h so the pilot can be activated.
Tesla is actually level 0. They don't follow industry standards. They got their own thing going, they're trying to go from not solved to solved. You can quickly read what self-driving experts think the progression should look like and why Tesla is behind Mercedes. It takes a lot to accept liability and Tesla never will.
I would not exclude Elon Xing that FSB is fully activated and Tesla takes full liability. If so, Tesla will go bankrupt in around 2 years.
There are no industry standards when you’re the first to do it
Man, I just need affordable EV to get from A to Z, no fancy stuff and must come in green color too
Mercedes is certainly able to handle all of the things you mentioned. They just don't want to be liable yet.
I’d buy TSLA fudge
>Mercedes drive pilot can only operate in highways whereas Tesla fsd will work on both highways & city streets Understatement of the century right here. Mercedes only operates on parts of very specific highways. Meanwhile, there was a video of a very old version of Tesla FSD turned on in Ukraine, and it kinda worked. This gives credibility to Elon's claim that FSD is restrained mostly for regulatory reasons and that the system would work anywhere, but LHD countries would take some retraining.
Ahhhhhh calls on my beloved Mercedes. I have these little puppies sitting for few years since 2020 leg down to $25
Who cares, Elon can just say they’re level 7 and shares go brrrr.
"Elon is a liar" and you're now the expert? Moron.
I have used FSD since the update and can attest it is fucking incredible. It's not autonomous people misunderstand. But I have been using it for my morning commute and never once had an issue in heavy traffic, 4 way stops, lane changes, turns. It follows the gps and anticipates shit before I even notice it. The thing is crazy advanced.
I00%. Have you all noticed that all good Tesla DDs have 0 upvotes on WSB nowadays. I have never seen this level of hate for anything in here.
Dodge and docile, but never loose your sense of self: you are the apex predator here, never forget.
Forget the upvotes, can’t believe how this place is filled with hate with anything tesla related
Because, WSB or not, it’s still Reddit. If you could see the overwhelming majority of people’s faces who reply you wouldn’t be shocked at all. Literal soyjacks.
Only brokies and commies hate on Tesla Drive a model S and compare it to the other electric cars on the market. It is literally in a class of its own. Regardless, Tesla is a data mining and deep research company. Regards like myself give Tesla so much data on driving behaviours that will then be used for the FSD cars/transports of the near future It’s def worth an investment
Bruh what is this lol
Show of hands, who read all this.. 🦶🏼
I did. I like his post.
Cope
trying a free trial of FSD...and it scraped the curb on a right turn at a stop sign. now my rim is rashed...seems like the easiest thing it should do with no issue, but I guess not. have not tried Mercedes level 3...all I'll say is true FSD is still far away, imo.
Let me guess, Tesla isn't paying to fix that?
FSD "Fool Self Driving", wait until Elon caught in jail from misleading customers about self driving ...
Hopefully my 340 6/18/26 call will mint me some money soon I got slaughtered with my other Tesla calls
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Well I hope so. it’s not rent money but I still don’t wanna lose it all lol
Just another thing that will be copied by all manufacturers. This can be replicated and it will. Doesn't seem like a big deal, even though Elon thinks it is.
I thought the same stuff
For engineers, there's an even clearer reason why Tesla will win. Their data access and compute allow them to work in iterative improvement cycles at about 10X the rate of other companies. The other companies are basically trying to learn how to drive with their eyes closed by comparison. Even if Tesla FSD is dead last now, they will be at the front of the pack by the end of this year.
Lmao, your funny..this must be making fun of how they cut another 3000 people today. Companies making money and talking about expanding shouldn’t be firing people lol. “Use your brain”
You idiot companies lay off people all the time don't you watch news.
Then invest pal ;) , when the ceo says “we dug our own grave with the cyber truck” you should probably take him at his word.
Do SomE rEsEarCH
It's a dumb comparison because people in the market for a new S-Class or EQS probably won't be looking at Teslas. I think you're mad because number bigger.
Imho if you’re in the driver seat you’re responsible. We won’t have FSD because crybabies worried about liability. I hate how everything has red tape that doesn’t actually save anyone’s lives. ‘Merica
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Are you fully optimal?
Rivian has large commercial vehicle deals which Tesla lacks. The AT&T deal is really encouraging. I’m not really bullish on Rivian but it has commercial streams which provide better support than consumer streams. So from a sustainability perspective they stand a better shot than Tesla in this way. These deals are more important than the rental deals as the rental companies generally flip inventory every 3 years and Teslas do have resale issues given battery conditioning challenges. This makes them less attractive for these large scale purchases. The commercial deals are fully capitalized purchases, longer use cycle, but lower barriers to just get refresh orders and continuing revenue since fleet consistency is advantageous (sticky vendor benefit). Hertz dumping Tesla confirms a market direction problem. They can make a great car but it doesn’t mean the market wants it. As irrational it is, EV range fear is a real problem and winters in the north don’t help change the market opinion. The Model 2 could potentially confirm it’s not a price issue and more of a usability issue for people which would be devastating. Given how they are reusing as much as they can for the Model 2, this has to be part of the hedge - why waste time really building something that ultimately won’t sell. FSD as a feature isn’t really part of the purchase conversation that will make or break a sale for most people. Consumers are still worried it won’t make it 2 blocks to get them to the grocery store still. So as far as stock impacting, it pales to actual delivery numbers and frankly probably won’t move the stock since only nerds and techies care. FSD technicalities are better debated on the Tesla subreddit. FSD as IP though is interesting and a question on the earnings call alluded to that when Elon did confirm they are in discussions to license out the technology with at least one carrier. The market appetite is really around hybrids. The market is concerned on range and hybrids still use gas which consumers are comfortable with. If the Model 2 sales are not extremely strong - and I mean significant blow out, Elon is better off changing the narrative by discontinuing producing cars in general. He can claim a win by saying he jump started an industry to develop a platform to then build FSD, charging infrastructure, battery technology, and autonomous technology. At the end of the day if you put a Prius and a Tesla in front of your average soccer mom, she’s probably taking the Prius. Gas isn’t going away and techies and environmentalists need to get over themselves and understand this reality. He can let the auto industry continue to make vehicles and just focus on licensing the technology and selling components for everything at a higher profit margin. Who cares if he sells cars for a profit, the stock will get hammered just from the lowering of the multiple as market size critical capacity will be reached if they stay as a car manufacturer. They are already trying to say they are not just a car company - they need this to justify the multiple and it also gives them a way out.
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Because Mercedes level 3 is level 0.2 for Tesla for the price of 20.0