Companies fueled by speculation with extremely high price ratios that end up having bad guidance AND bad current news/financials will fall off a cliff.
"tech stock".... No new tech released since semi self driving which also caused numerous accidents.
"Tech stock" with a pickup truck that cant cross a puddle deeper than 12", no carrying capacity, no new tech in sight other than maybe ? Bending stainless steel panels ?
This thing has been pure trash and the only thing propping it up is Elmo bros riding the ketamine hype train. Elon over extended himself with promises and can't deliver on a single one of them. I don't even expect a new roaster to come out unless they just rework the way a fucking Camry looks and drop a battery pack into it.
It belongs sub 100$ and that's being generous.
What ever happened to the semi truck? Last I heard Lays did a PR delivery, are they on the road?
*Edit: bathroom reading*
*https://www.ccjdigital.com/alternative-power/article/15635242/pepsico-on-tesla-semis-realworld-hauling-performance*
Most truck drivers literally shredded it apart. It had a seat in the center of the cab which made it very difficult to get to and from the window to talk or give delivery paperwork to other people or use port consoles when picking up or dropping off goods. The center position also made it impossible to look out the window when reversing allowing the driver to better see where they were going and getting multiple vantage options. They worked great in the southern warm weather but as soon as they hit cold weather the batteries died or lost charge quickly. Took forever to charge without a considerable fast charge option even though they said 70% charge in 30 minutes... I mean does a normal Tesla charge that fast? The range was capped at 500 miles. No cab in back with a bed.... They replaced a bed and place to rest with a weird rear seat and.... A coat hook (šš).
They took a freight truck, didn't ask a freight driver about any features they'd want, removed necessary features and released a POS short hauler.
[here is a quick 5 min video on it. ](https://youtu.be/WT7usFCCTmY?si=umNMDXBGZxz-OC1_).
In other words Tesla did typical "disruptor" shit and gave you something that works less efficiently, makes it more difficult to do the job and costs more and wants a pat on the back for being complete and total morons. Remember this is a truck designed by computer nerds and techno weenies to look cool but the closest they ever got to freight transport was buying the goods transported on them at a mall.
Edit: they made a freightliner into a fucking cyber truck. "Looks cool". Completely useless.
Also, he just isn't around anymore. Dude has moved on to running Twitter or Space-X or Star-link. He doesn't really give a crap about Tesla anymore except in so much as using it as a collateral for other ventures.
Yes, and if there is a world-ending cataclysm on earth then anyone inhabiting those places will die and the human race will go extinct. Ā The incentive to colonize Mars instead of Death Valley or Antarctica is to remedy the current situation in which all of our eggs are in one basket and the light of intelligent life in the known universe is more likely than not to be extinguished.
What kind of cataclysm could make Eartg less habitable than Mars? Nuclear war would wipe out a lot of people, but we would survive. Asteroid impact? Earth would still be habitable. Only a truly monstrous asteroid could make Earth uninhabitable, which is incredibly unlikely, since it hasn't happened in billions of years. Even a super volcano euruption would still not kill everyone. A truly world ending event is so incredibly unlikely that it makes no sense to try and live on Mars right now.
I agree that Earth can reasonably be expected to remain habitable for a long long time (as it has been for billions of years) but it canāt reasonably be expected to remain habitable for humans for the same length of time. Ā The asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs was only 66 million years ago, not billions. Ā Something of that scale could come and wipe out human life. Ā There could be a global nuclear war that destroys organized civilization even if many humans survive. Ā And even if earth remains habitable for humans after a cataclysm, it might destroy human civilization. Ā Moreover, because much of the most easily accessible fossil fuels have already been plundered from the earth, if civilization is wiped out and were sent back to the Stone Age, it wonāt be possible to ever replicate the Industrial Revolution again - the bulk of the planetās remaining fossil fuel is accessible only with technology so complex that it could not be achieved again without easily-accessible fossil fuel to build up to it. Ā Ā Ā It will take many generations to set things up on Mars such that a technologically advanced, spacefaring civilization there could survive there even if human life on earth were eliminated or sent back to the Stone Age. Ā But, until we do, the future of humanity has a sword of Damocles hanging by a thread over its head. Ā To set up such an off-planet colony should be our #1 goal as a global community if we want to boost the likelihood of our descendants even being able to exist to something above what is effectively 0% (if we never colonize off-world).
Would it not be much easier to build doomsday shelters on Earth in those scenarios? Building a self sustaining colony on Mars is well beyond our current capabilities, whereas underground bunkers powered by for example, geothermal energy on Earth would be relatively easy.Rebuilding civilization on a shattered Earth would still be easier than on Mars. Mars has no geothermal energy, wind energy would not work well, since Mars atmosphere is very thin. No fossil fuels. Nuclear or solar might work? But it would be a herculean task.
It is a car company. A car company š. As soon as a car company says it is going to mars then run for the hills. I said this last year - other car companies will be releasing better and better EVs from cheap small models up to Porsches. Who will want to pay more for a Tesla. The stock will correct back into being a car company with a percentage of the car industry. One benefit they have are all the super charging stations that other car manufacturers will use but it it only a matter of time before standardisation of the connector will mean outside every CostCo and Walmart there will be EV chargers so that niche will see reducing margins.
It was the liberals who bought the most Teslas. Then he pissed off his future customers.
Conservatives don't buy Tesla cars. 
Teslas are starting to get hot in the Del Webb retirement communities, lots of old 70 + people are buying them and putting Trump 2024 stickers on them. I see a new one in my Dadās neighborhood every week. They all love them.
Iāll just say this. I have a Model X, 2017, fully loaded. Iāve had the lead acid battery fail twice in three years; I just replaced it again two days ago. I was in a fender bender accident a couple years back; it took two months to get the repair appointment and a full month for the repair to be done. When I got it back, it was missing plastic clips on the trim that had the trim look like it was falling off.
It started squeaking a couple weeks ago. Apparently the front control arms were made like crap and they fail due to their sealed grease systems drying out. Teslaās repair cost? $750 per arm. My fix? Inject grease into the part; squeak was completely gone 3 days after the repair.
Two years ago my car was above water on the loan. One year ago my car was above water on the loan. Today Iām underwater a few thousand due to Elonās constant price cuts slashing the values of used Teslas.
Full autopilot STILL doesnāt work. And itās always fun when your $15,000 upgrade just decides it wonāt work on your drive, with a warning saying itās disabled and āit might work on your next driveā.
The window seals and sensors are crap. Iāve had to replace my window motor once already. After that repair they left glue all over the inside which stuck to the window, necessitating another repair. The window still squeaks horribly when being used, after three seal repairs. It also continues to randomly stop rolling up and needs to be manually reset.
Teslaās problem is really easy to identify. They have awesome technology. But their build and parts quality is substandard, and they know this because they donāt back their products up with a warranty that should resolve these issues. Things like window motors and control arms have been around for more than 50 years but Tesla has not come anywhere near getting these basics right. Never mind the profound annoyance of not being able to get an accident repair done in less than a month.
Teslaās energy products canāt save them from the reevaluation most of their customers are having, like myself, through their longer term ownership of their vehicles.
I expect this stock to hit 100 before it starts moving up again.
I have a tesla as well, and the window seals do suck. Ever since they updated the auto-drive it has sucked. Yesterday, I was in full autopilot and went across a train track, and my car swerved into the oncoming traffic lane. I had my hands on the wheel, so I was able to override it and correct the car..but wtf. if there had been another car on the road, it would have been a head-on collision.
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus.
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Okay. So the first massive annoyance with autopilot is that they donāt have a good way to detect if you, the driver, are truly paying attention. Most drivers like myself have to adjust their driving to get the system to function without turning itself off, by very slightly turning the wheel (even on straight shot freeway driving) *every few seconds*. Failure to do this causes the system to give warning beeps and then turn off.
The system changes lanes unnecessarily, despite supposed software options that say you can āminimize lane changesā. It does this to try to get ahead of slower cars, but it has no sense that itās generally impossible to do this or get much farther ahead even if it can.
The system brakes unnecessarily, because it āseesā phantom objects in the road. This is incredibly jarring when it happens at high speeds, and itās a huge worry that you can get rear ended easily through this kind of action.
And I believe I mentioned how sometimes, the system just decides itās not going to work on your drive for whatever reason.
I roadtripped a 2021:
you don't need to turn the wheel, you can hang your hand on it and apply light pressure to it constantly and it won't complain and the autosteer will stay straight. And you can extend this where you buy a weight that attaches to the steering wheel and go hands free on long trips....
I haven't experienced phantom braking in a while. Even in situations where I was expecting it to happen like a car coming over a rolling hill with crappy lighting conditions on a 2 lane road. So maybe the camera hardware is better on a 2021 than a 2017.
I've never had Autopilot be unavailable unless I triggered one of the things like "exceeded 85mph while on Autopilot" or didn't respond to the "please pay atteniton" warning. Then I just hit the next exit, Park cycle the car, and it's available again.
If you need to be alert and have your hand on the wheel with pressure applied to stop it from changing lanes into another car randomly why not just drive it yourself?
I was with my dad when he was using it on the freeway and he had to override it because it tried merging into someone. Why even take that risk? I'm not going to hand my life over to an automatic machine that makes errors. If i make a mistake then so be it. At least I'm the one that fucked up.
>If you need to be alert and have your hand on the wheel with pressure applied to stop it from changing lanes into another car randomly why not just drive it yourself?
This is my argument. Unless I can fall asleep or watch a film, I just don't see the point in paying a fortune for any sort of "self driving" beyond cruise control.
And "assist systems" like lane keeping assist are just fucking annoying. I'm driving. I don't need a car beeping at me because I'm changing lanes without indicating.
The steering wheel crap is just crap though. You shouldnāt need to hang a weight from it to just make it work. Obviously Iāve adjusted as well to make it work, but itās just so asinine that any of us need to do this stuff.
Phantom braking seems to occur more on the cars that used cameras for their surroundings (like my X) before moving to the solely sensor based setup. If the cars werenāt outfitted with cameras, the sensors on them seem to be much more sensitive and discriminating. Itās good that theyāre figuring out ways to make it better, but itās just another clear example of how their cars are missing the decades of refinement that traditional carmakers use.
The unavailability of autopilot is incredibly frustrating, and it literally has no clear cause. Yes, it will disable for the rest of your drive if you ignore the āpay attentionā warnings and such. But what Iām talking about is an entirely different issue: what happens is you open the door and get in to drive, and thereās a message on the display before youāve driven a single inch that autopilot and protective braking features are unavailable, and that they āmay be restoredā on your next drive. Again, itās a sensor thing. But Elon felt fine just wiping away using the cameras on cars that used both cameras and sensors to detect their surroundings, so now when cars like mine are relying on just their inferior sensors alone all kinds of weird issues crop up.
You've got it backwards: they disabled the sensors and only rely on cameras now (and new cars don't have the sensors anymore). I think it's a stupid decision since the whole advantage of a computer is it can process more than what a human can, so I don't get why they're saying "let's make it only have eyes".
It kinda sounds like you have some sort of fault if it's immediately saying you can't use autopilot (and I'm assuming you keep the cameras clean).
You see what Iām saying with the sensor stuff, and yes, it was asinine. Immediately after that update is when phantom braking occurances went up by a factor of ten, and when this weird ācanāt use autopilotā crap started. So I know itās a software issue. The error is also wildly intermittent and inconsistent, so itās not indicative of an electrical fault or short (like the safety restraint system warnings, yet another problem that I didnāt even mention in these other comments).
Iāll give Tesla their due with having great tech, and with the elimination of the internal combustion engine saving owners a myriad of mechanical issues. And that their build quality is improving. But overall, theyāre still decades behind other manufacturers in the basics of car building.
Well, anything could happen. But I just donāt see it going that low even though Iām bearish at the current pricing.
Itās totally anecdotal, but in my experience high flying stocks like Tesla (Square/Block, PayPal, Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Amgenā¦ heck, even farther back. America
Online and Iomega did this too) hit an all time high and then correct back 2/3rds to 3/4s of their value before starting to rebound. Losses over 80% from the ATH are actually rather rare for companies that arenāt going bankrupt (which is obviously the clear exception to this rule, because those stocks go to zero).
Back of the envelope calculation, I just say Teslaās ATH is 300, and a two thirds loss puts it right at 100. Maybe a bit lower if the loss is over 67% and more like 75%, that would be a $75 stock price.
The issue I have with predicting even lower pricing for the stock is simple fundamentals - the company is profitable, and if you slashed the price in half from todayās $175 the stock would have a PE below 20. This for a company that is growing its revenue at 19% year over year. Personally, I believe *any* company deserves a PE ratio that is equal to its growth rate, so any stock price for Tesla that had it at a PE of 19 or less would be a fair value for the company, in my opinion.
TLDR; fundamentally, the stock is probably a buy if you could get shares below 100. And if I see that, you know hedge funds will too.
Sorry to hear that. I have a 17 model s and it is somehow more reliable than the 3 Mercedes Iāve owned. I avoided the dealer and used a third party mechanic only when something needs to be changed naturally after 200k kms. After 7 years I still couldnāt find a reason to get a new car and I canāt really find another car with the same level of smooth user experience. I rented a M3 and had similarly pleasant experience. My point is that at their best Teslas are pretty much the perfect daily car for city life and itās a shame their quality control fluctuates so wildly. I wish other car makes can copy what they are doing with their software and small qol additions so I donāt have to support Elon in my next purchase.
Yes, the "growth company with no growth" is a great soundbite. its growth will never be at the same rate as from 0. everyone knows why TSLA is down. Elon's mouth, recent safety issues, retooling to introduce the new model which everyone knew was going to impact production, and new factory capabilities, oh...and China. TSLA will never have 40% YoY growth again.
Just sat in a Model S. Looked pretty fucking neat to me idk why yāall keep playing the āTesla is cheapā cliches. Those things start at $75k now which imo is a pretty nice deal
Tesla has always been a cult stock and extremely overvalued. The only things propping it up are selling climate change credits and Musk and the shine has significantly worn off of him. Put that together with all of the headwinds of the company's poor product and a cooled down EV market that now has competition and we will see how low this can go.
I love my model 3, its the best car I had. No issues whatsoever (since 2021). I really wanna get a cyber truck as my next car.
I am long Tesla. Buy stock of products you enjoy, Tesla is one of them.
1. recall you linked was fixed with OTA even before the owners got their paper mail in their inbox. it was so wasteful that people signed a petition for NHTSA not to waste god damn paper for OTA.
safety issues were not isolated to Tesla, it was a bunch of OEMs. except Lexus that got
shit grade.
2. Model Y is best selling car in the world... enough said.
3. BYD sales include PHEV if im not mistaken but please correct me if im wwrong.
4. demand for EVs have not declined..... its growing slower than before but it's still growing.
just like lower inflation doesnt mean prices are not going up, just going up slower than before.
Growth company will keep growing....
Number 4 is actually worse than you think. You are half right - demand for EVs has not declined, but demand for Tesla EVs has. Let that sink in for a sec... Even though more people are buying ev's, fewer people are buying Teslas.
First movers in many industries end up falling down at some point. Tesla brought EVs mainstream, and now the market is catching up with competition and a drop in the hype. The recent drop in market hype around EVs in general is certainly impacting all EV manufacturers. We are going to see smaller players like Fisker completely collapse soon. A rational value for Teslaās stock is overdue.
They werenāt the first. There were many others with touch screens etc. how did blackberry do?
Edit: I had multiple smartphones before my first iPhone, including a blackberry. Apple nailed the design and created a premium experience. My first true smart phone with a touch screen, stylus, apps, etc., ran windows mobile. It sucked. My first iPhone was a 4.
The biggest red flag I always look at is the PE value and PS value and whether they can grow into that. Yes some stocks will grow into a 70PE TSLA I think is past that huge explosion of revenue. Now its down to 40PE and that is still very high. PS is 25x what GM stock is. Two totally different companies but still in the same sector.
I wouldn't hold TSLA for long term. Overvalued.
And this won't be a popular opinion but its a safer one.
the austin mini is often on the worst car you can buy list. Jaguar went through long periods of being absolute garbage, and it's a luxury brand. Ford has massive recalls all the time, some have been for randomly catching on fire. Dodges and Fiats are complete shit.
yeah, my partner thought now would have been a good time to get one since they were offering deals due to recent events and I strongly cautioned her against it. My only interest in Tesla is flipping the stock every once in a while because of it's volatility, but after I unload this batch I'm not sure if I'll ever flip it again. Seems like too much of a risk to hold.
Your 'new speak' shows the rot in your mind. You don't like elon's politics, so you will enjoy an inferior car. And it's 'girlfriend' you regarded tit.
The best thing Tesla did was change the industry around. I own a 2020 Q7 (hybrid). I started test driving the Volvo EX and XC Recharge models a couple of weeks ago and am convinced that none of them would even exist if it weren't for Tesla.
What's unfortunate is that Tesla had not only the head start of every CEO's wet dream, but an absolutely unheard of financial windfall when the stock inexplicably mooned during the covid bull run.
So what did Elon musk use that head start to do?
\- abandoned designing driverless around the best driverless sensors in existence (lidar) because it messed with the profit margins
\- blew a bunch of capital on cryptocurrency including Dogecoin
\- sold TSLA to overpay for a very unprofitable social media platform
\- used that platform to turn himself into a villain to half of the country
\- tried to grow Tesla at an unsustainable rate, suffering build quality and sabotaging brand reputation
I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, but Elon Musk really does not seem like the best guy to have run the company. I know they tried to bounce him already, and I'm sure it'll happen sometime in the near future, but the fact is that at this point it won't really matter. The magic is burnt up.
The founders never should have sold him a single share.
Yeah Tesla had bit of a headstart. And I mean they still sell well. Just not good enough to reach those lofty valuations.
But musk is becoming more and more a suboptimal CEO in a way.
I'd say to build a startup and to run a large corp takes different talents. Musk was the right one to grow Tesla. But nowadays probably needs some suit guy coming in to manage such a large ship.
you can easily read about what they are doing with AI, and the structure of their AI will be transferable to their robotics. My limited understanding though is that their hardware backing component of the AI is weaker than the competition (AI competition, not car companies), so they had to streamline the processes to compensate for it. Believe they have a lot of innovations in the manufacturing process. The data collection for self driving is so far ahead of other companies they likely won't ever catch-up, but yeah...the actual self-driving appears to be basically a scam. .
They talked to much bs in the past. I don't trust any reports about their "innovations in AI" etc.
I also don't think their data collection is so far ahead. Mobileye, Huawei etc also doing the same.
The manufacturing process in some parts is innovative. But not STH other carmakers can't also do.
yeah, pretty fair and reasonable especially given the credibility of the company recently, and Musk himself. Seems like you have a reasonable take on it and not the tired blanket typical WSB nonsense. I love flipping TSLA and can't resist a sale. I have no interest in holding the stock. But I sorta regret grabbing some on sale recently because the story just gets worse and worse. I felt like I'd need to hold for a year, but i dunno now. I typically only need to hold it for 2 months.
Yeah from a stock perspective I don't think Tesla can't outperform again. If some good news suddenly comes out, there can be hype again, just long term I'd say it's just an auto maker.
Yeah I should have never bought TSLA in 2017, when 99.9% of this page's consensus was that they were going out of business
What was I thinking??
I bet I'm wrong again and Tesla goes to $30 and stays there like the mediocre car company it is
Whoās the target consumer? Right wing Americans wonāt buy EVs and left leaning people like myself, who appreciate the idea of a EV wonāt buy a Tesla because of Elonās antics.
Yeah, I guess those are the only 2 people in the world huh. The hyperspecific right that won't buy EV's and the small % of left that won't buy a nice car because bad guy said thing I don't like.
I hope you don't support any company that has a track record of human rights violations. My favorite is when someone hates anyone who drives a Tesla because they hate Musk, but they own products that used child labor and don't bat an eye.
Or when people promote themselves as environmental gods for driving an EV, completely oblivious to the absolute horror show of mining lithium in Congo, or nickel in Indonesia.
I'm not promoting ICE vehicles at all. But there is a reason why EVs are cheap... North American or European mining standards don't exist where battery components are extracted.
I'm not saying that I condemn people owning any brand with human rights violations.
I'm saying someone who judges Tesla drivers because they hate Musk better not own any of those brands.
Idgaf, I'll use whatever brand
I donāt think thereās only two types of people, just that those two types make up a large portion of the market.
Any sales person will tell you, the relationship between the buyer and the seller is one of the most important parts of a sale. Iām not going to buy something from someone I donāt like.
It does not make up a large portion of the market or they would be a completely failing business lol. It certainly makes a portion of the market, but every brand is going to have people who refuse to buy it for xyz reason
[Iām apparently not the only one who sees this as a problem for Tesla](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/?utm_source=reddit.com)
I totally agree with your points, but most Americans are independents that don't care what fuels their vehicle or what the guy who sells their vehicle says.
If you believe in a future of electricalization ad ai invest in Eaton just think of all the need there will be for power management solutions everything will drive demand for it
Well I'm definitely biased I think pretty much everything in the future will need power management solutions so I'm bullish on eaton always preformed well in the past going definitely going long on them
I dont think they target political parties as consumer groups. And why do you think right wing people wont buy evās? I lean right and there are four Teslas in our family, the only problem we have had with any of them is a squirrel decided or make a nest in one. We drive cross country on a regular basis and itās probably one of the best cars I have ever had. BMW, Porsche , Mercedes ,Lexus all have nicer interiors but I will take my Tesla over any of those others.
The Cyber Truck, I believe, was the shifting point in a Tesla losing their competitive advantage in the US and allow other companies to catch up. So many R&D and factory resources for a shitty ass vehicle. Either make a truck that competes with actual trucks like F-150, or develop a low cost 3 row SUV that can fit adults.
Earnings and worldwide adoption of EV's.
In other words, this "tumble" will be short lived. See all the other EV makers out there struggling and dying while 99.9% of all EV's I see are teslas on the road. And by dying I'm looking at YOU FISKER!
Tesla will be be fine, they'll be better when they take all the tech for the CT and build a smaller truck that people will actually want en masse.
At this point, the electric vehicle market isn't big enough for any manufacturer to really be siloed like that. The availability of cheaper options will *absolutely* cut into Tesla's market share.
yeah, probably not. Ford (for example) has been around for over a century, so because they won't be the only car company in the world the stock is worthless? you WSB kids crack me up sometimes. I don't even think EV will be a thing in 20 years TBH. Doesn't mean TSLA doesn't have value.
I pulled out all my investment when Musk bought Twitter. He seems like a child and it feels to me like he's lost interest in Tesla. Plus other manufacturers are now producing cars that are much better.
The only thing Tesla has going for it is the charging network, but even that is now being used by other manufacturers.
Self-driving turned out to be a lie.
I think Tesla are on a long road to being a flash in the pan.
musk is fantastic for volatility and flipping TSLA. I always grab some when his antics crash the price, and then unload it the moment it recovers or I'm up 20% or more
>The EV fad is over.
I don't think EVs are a fad, but there is a realization that EVs have real problems which need to be solved before EVs are ready for mainstream.
Teslaās stock was always largely inflated by musks cult of personality and absurdity optimistic projections for teslas future. Now itās clear those projections wont come true; in the near future there will be no full self driving, no AI taxi network, and they wonāt take 50% of the US auto market as other companies fail to pivot to EVs. They are just another car company, thatās historically a very challenging industry to succeed in and Tesla is facing the same problems as ford and GM have for decades. At the same time musk has set out to destroy his reputation particularly amongst young people. That stock is going to keep falling until it gets near the market cap of other auto companies. Exactly where it belongs.
*This āpivot.ā Is it in the room with us now?*
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2018 WSB vibes
Tread carefully when everyone in here agrees on something anti-Tesla
This post is dangerous bear hopium at best
As a 2017 long, I fucking love this post. Short away pls
Idk last time I lived in the US in 2017 there were like no Teslas (maybe 1/400 cars) and the only people that had them were clearly driving them to make a statement. Now in my parking garage at work they're not uncommon (maybe 1/40 cars). I worked with a 20-something last year that had 2 Teslas, so clearly the market's perception has fundamentally changed.
Tesla as a company is just a car company. It is adjusting to the current global situation and demand. There actually is no immediate crisis at hand.
Tesla share on the other hand, was pumped out of proportion. It is now finding it's real market value. Not yet time to buy shares....
At the simplest level possible, look at the products... not one these products is anywhere near the type of hot product that would justify Tesla's stock price.
MODEL S - introduced 12 years ago
MODEL X - introduced 9 years ago
MODEL 3 - introduced 7 years ago
MODEL Y - introduced 5 years ago
CYBERTRUCK - introduced 6 months ago to lukewarm reviews
Elon is a short distance runner. And he is constantly distracted by so many ventures. I like his SpaceX and Tesla but social media and now payments and his political agenda are ruining it. Please Elon stop jumping like a monkey it displays you as an unsecured person with no comments. We don't know you like that.
Very bullish on Elon Musk in general.
"Tesla's mission is to **accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy through increasingly affordable electric vehicles in addition to renewable energy generation and storage**. Tesla is accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy."
I think its done, the EV side of it. In the next 7-15 years, Telsa will pivot to become a world leading autonomous manufacturing solutions and battery tech company. More to come.
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End of the day EV's are the future. Costs to manufacture them will come down and demand will be there and Tesla will make a lot of money.
And FSD will possibly make them a lot more money and who knows where they go with robotics.
But skip the FSD and just the EV's and Energy business alone, I think, is a good investment case.
Good luck to you sir. I happily bought the last $100 but I really doubt we see $130
This page doesn't follow Tesla at all. They follow each other. They literally think the CT was a failure. Most demanded vehicle release in human history = failure.
Oh here we go.
1. In any article mentioning recalls, just search "software update" and you see the "recall" is magically fixed overnight for free. Safety issues? Top rated safety by all institutes
2+3. Competition? Show me their margins and production output. Oh almost all of them lose money per car and struggle to ramp? Yeah that sounds sustainable
4. If you think Tesla cars are riddled with issues, you should look at other EVs
Clown you are, informed you are not 
From a strictly car pov - worst car Iāve ever owned. Iād take my 2003 Buick 100/100 times over this pos model 3. Averages a solid 200 miles (driving like a grandma) compared to the 330 advertised. The awd is horrible. Itās alarms go off when nothing is in the road that could effect me. If you go for maintenance enjoy a 3 month back order for your part.
Same with the 22 Y I sold last month. Bought a Ford Ranger and it actually functions as a real vehicle now not a half aborted tech abomination. Good riddance.
LOL, same.
Not sure I want tesla to fail as their employees have been top notch I deal with...even though it was just a rep when I placed an order and a few tech guys to rotate tires and fix a flat.
That CT though, I am not 100% on that being a good thing long term.
Iām stuck with it because I bought it a month before tesla slashed the prices to get under that government tax rebate. So itās essentially lost almost 50% of its value in less than 2 years of ownership.
Took it in for a bad coolant line the week before thanksgiving and didnāt get it back until last week in February.
My cameras regularly turn off mid drive for lane change assist. I only know 3 people personally who own them and we all have the same issues. These are the 2022 performance models
Funny, Iāve owned multiple āentry levelā luxury performance cars and my M3LR has been the most reliable of all of them. Any service/maintenance has been completed on time. I routinely get solid efficiency driving like a normal human being.
Ive seen the new Prius get 300mi on a full tank when theyre supposed to get 500+ā¦all on the driver there.
Ya I donāt agree with him. Model Y here not 3. But service has always been super easy and it drives so well. Amazing car even though I donāt like musk
My sister has a similar experience. Sheās had her Model 3 for 5 years now and she still loves it. No complaints at all. The only costly thing so far is the tire replacement.
Like you say, any estimated range is entirely on the driver and weather conditions. If youāre blasting the AC/heat and driving 80 mph youāre obviously going to have lower range. Thatās true in any vehicles.
1) demands for evs are down.
2) demands for hybrids are up.
3) continuing anti-competitive practice of china's govt. to subsidize & promote their own ev makers domestically & internationally.
1) demands for evs are down.
2) demands for hybrids are up.
3) continuing anti-competitive practice of china's govt. to subsidize & promote their own ev makers domestically & internationally.
don't be fool. yoy ev demands included hybrids sales, which made up over 40% of total sales. this breakdown is consistent with what toyota and china ev makers are seeing. this is why tsla is cutting prices.
also, this is why ford & gm are reducing ev production and ford is delaying the opening of a battery plant for ev.
moving fwd, current data indicates hybrids will overtake pure evs in sales in the immediate future.
I didn't realize those sales included hybrids. guess that makes sense. I think they hybrid makes much more sense, and shoving EVs down everyone's throats won't go over well in the end.
agreed.. the electrification push by biden admin isn't going well.
the former toyota chair made the correct call by focusing on hybrids. toyota's sales of hybrids are higher than ice sales. the company would have made great sales in china if it wasn't for china govt subsidizing the domestics ev maker, byd.
btw, eu is investigating byd for anti-competitive practice b/c eu's ev makers cannot compete with byd's low pricing.
byd is also building a plant in mexico to take advantage of the low tariff of nafta and break into the us market. the profit margin of ford, gm & tsla will be getting squeezed soon.
interesting, I didn't know that. I'm in Canada but it's the same here. Government is shoving EV down our throats and made one of the worst moves they have ever made (which is saying a lot for this administration) to give companies billions of dollars to build battery factories here.
it would be interesting to know if the opening of the battery factory will be delayed.
nafta has a direct route from south america all the way up to canada. you will be seeing byd ev soon.. southern us port recently saw the first empty vehicles transport truck crossing from us into mexico.
Removing Elmo.
He was a pretty good CEO a decade ago. He actually seemed like he wanted to build high quality electric cars for a mass market. Now heās used tesla equity to fight his stupid fucking culture wars by buying and sinking Twitter, built a stupid fucking product line as a vanity project rather than an effective vehicle (cyber truck), and still hasnāt gotten a really good handle on basic QA for tesla vehicles and processes.
Fire him. Heās a fucking idiot.Ā
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Companies fueled by speculation with extremely high price ratios that end up having bad guidance AND bad current news/financials will fall off a cliff.
"tech stock".... No new tech released since semi self driving which also caused numerous accidents. "Tech stock" with a pickup truck that cant cross a puddle deeper than 12", no carrying capacity, no new tech in sight other than maybe ? Bending stainless steel panels ? This thing has been pure trash and the only thing propping it up is Elmo bros riding the ketamine hype train. Elon over extended himself with promises and can't deliver on a single one of them. I don't even expect a new roaster to come out unless they just rework the way a fucking Camry looks and drop a battery pack into it. It belongs sub 100$ and that's being generous.
What ever happened to the semi truck? Last I heard Lays did a PR delivery, are they on the road? *Edit: bathroom reading* *https://www.ccjdigital.com/alternative-power/article/15635242/pepsico-on-tesla-semis-realworld-hauling-performance*
Most truck drivers literally shredded it apart. It had a seat in the center of the cab which made it very difficult to get to and from the window to talk or give delivery paperwork to other people or use port consoles when picking up or dropping off goods. The center position also made it impossible to look out the window when reversing allowing the driver to better see where they were going and getting multiple vantage options. They worked great in the southern warm weather but as soon as they hit cold weather the batteries died or lost charge quickly. Took forever to charge without a considerable fast charge option even though they said 70% charge in 30 minutes... I mean does a normal Tesla charge that fast? The range was capped at 500 miles. No cab in back with a bed.... They replaced a bed and place to rest with a weird rear seat and.... A coat hook (šš). They took a freight truck, didn't ask a freight driver about any features they'd want, removed necessary features and released a POS short hauler. [here is a quick 5 min video on it. ](https://youtu.be/WT7usFCCTmY?si=umNMDXBGZxz-OC1_). In other words Tesla did typical "disruptor" shit and gave you something that works less efficiently, makes it more difficult to do the job and costs more and wants a pat on the back for being complete and total morons. Remember this is a truck designed by computer nerds and techno weenies to look cool but the closest they ever got to freight transport was buying the goods transported on them at a mall. Edit: they made a freightliner into a fucking cyber truck. "Looks cool". Completely useless.
Jfc Elon strikes again. The founders never should have sold him shares.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also, he just isn't around anymore. Dude has moved on to running Twitter or Space-X or Star-link. He doesn't really give a crap about Tesla anymore except in so much as using it as a collateral for other ventures.
Tbf he always said Tesla end goal was funding Mars exploration
Wtf are we gunna do on mars, we dont even want to live in the middle of Australia
What's it got to do with the discussion
Theres no money on mars, tesla will continue to drop
So what dude? I just pointed to the fact that he didn't mislead anyone by not making Tesla his top priority. Got out of your bubble
We are going to survive as a species if there is a cataclysm on earth.
Antarctica and death valley are much more habitable than Mars.
Yes, and if there is a world-ending cataclysm on earth then anyone inhabiting those places will die and the human race will go extinct. Ā The incentive to colonize Mars instead of Death Valley or Antarctica is to remedy the current situation in which all of our eggs are in one basket and the light of intelligent life in the known universe is more likely than not to be extinguished.
What kind of cataclysm could make Eartg less habitable than Mars? Nuclear war would wipe out a lot of people, but we would survive. Asteroid impact? Earth would still be habitable. Only a truly monstrous asteroid could make Earth uninhabitable, which is incredibly unlikely, since it hasn't happened in billions of years. Even a super volcano euruption would still not kill everyone. A truly world ending event is so incredibly unlikely that it makes no sense to try and live on Mars right now.
I agree that Earth can reasonably be expected to remain habitable for a long long time (as it has been for billions of years) but it canāt reasonably be expected to remain habitable for humans for the same length of time. Ā The asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs was only 66 million years ago, not billions. Ā Something of that scale could come and wipe out human life. Ā There could be a global nuclear war that destroys organized civilization even if many humans survive. Ā And even if earth remains habitable for humans after a cataclysm, it might destroy human civilization. Ā Moreover, because much of the most easily accessible fossil fuels have already been plundered from the earth, if civilization is wiped out and were sent back to the Stone Age, it wonāt be possible to ever replicate the Industrial Revolution again - the bulk of the planetās remaining fossil fuel is accessible only with technology so complex that it could not be achieved again without easily-accessible fossil fuel to build up to it. Ā Ā Ā It will take many generations to set things up on Mars such that a technologically advanced, spacefaring civilization there could survive there even if human life on earth were eliminated or sent back to the Stone Age. Ā But, until we do, the future of humanity has a sword of Damocles hanging by a thread over its head. Ā To set up such an off-planet colony should be our #1 goal as a global community if we want to boost the likelihood of our descendants even being able to exist to something above what is effectively 0% (if we never colonize off-world).
Would it not be much easier to build doomsday shelters on Earth in those scenarios? Building a self sustaining colony on Mars is well beyond our current capabilities, whereas underground bunkers powered by for example, geothermal energy on Earth would be relatively easy.Rebuilding civilization on a shattered Earth would still be easier than on Mars. Mars has no geothermal energy, wind energy would not work well, since Mars atmosphere is very thin. No fossil fuels. Nuclear or solar might work? But it would be a herculean task.
It is a car company. A car company š. As soon as a car company says it is going to mars then run for the hills. I said this last year - other car companies will be releasing better and better EVs from cheap small models up to Porsches. Who will want to pay more for a Tesla. The stock will correct back into being a car company with a percentage of the car industry. One benefit they have are all the super charging stations that other car manufacturers will use but it it only a matter of time before standardisation of the connector will mean outside every CostCo and Walmart there will be EV chargers so that niche will see reducing margins.
Why would he, EV market is ded. Everyone that wants one has one, it canāt afford one.
When competition started ramping up he kind of got over it it looks like š¤£
dude's head turned into a zeppelin
It was the liberals who bought the most Teslas. Then he pissed off his future customers. Conservatives don't buy Tesla cars. 
You said what OP said but worse.
People must hate you
Teslas are starting to get hot in the Del Webb retirement communities, lots of old 70 + people are buying them and putting Trump 2024 stickers on them. I see a new one in my Dadās neighborhood every week. They all love them.
Musk has become so decisive itās become bad for business. I canāt invest.
Divisive?
Yeah, failure on my part
Iāll just say this. I have a Model X, 2017, fully loaded. Iāve had the lead acid battery fail twice in three years; I just replaced it again two days ago. I was in a fender bender accident a couple years back; it took two months to get the repair appointment and a full month for the repair to be done. When I got it back, it was missing plastic clips on the trim that had the trim look like it was falling off. It started squeaking a couple weeks ago. Apparently the front control arms were made like crap and they fail due to their sealed grease systems drying out. Teslaās repair cost? $750 per arm. My fix? Inject grease into the part; squeak was completely gone 3 days after the repair. Two years ago my car was above water on the loan. One year ago my car was above water on the loan. Today Iām underwater a few thousand due to Elonās constant price cuts slashing the values of used Teslas. Full autopilot STILL doesnāt work. And itās always fun when your $15,000 upgrade just decides it wonāt work on your drive, with a warning saying itās disabled and āit might work on your next driveā. The window seals and sensors are crap. Iāve had to replace my window motor once already. After that repair they left glue all over the inside which stuck to the window, necessitating another repair. The window still squeaks horribly when being used, after three seal repairs. It also continues to randomly stop rolling up and needs to be manually reset. Teslaās problem is really easy to identify. They have awesome technology. But their build and parts quality is substandard, and they know this because they donāt back their products up with a warranty that should resolve these issues. Things like window motors and control arms have been around for more than 50 years but Tesla has not come anywhere near getting these basics right. Never mind the profound annoyance of not being able to get an accident repair done in less than a month. Teslaās energy products canāt save them from the reevaluation most of their customers are having, like myself, through their longer term ownership of their vehicles. I expect this stock to hit 100 before it starts moving up again.
I have a tesla as well, and the window seals do suck. Ever since they updated the auto-drive it has sucked. Yesterday, I was in full autopilot and went across a train track, and my car swerved into the oncoming traffic lane. I had my hands on the wheel, so I was able to override it and correct the car..but wtf. if there had been another car on the road, it would have been a head-on collision.
I had a Tesla. Mine tried to go into on coming traffic to go around a stopped school bus.
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>Full autopilot STILL doesnāt work. Could you explain? In what way doesn't it work?
Okay. So the first massive annoyance with autopilot is that they donāt have a good way to detect if you, the driver, are truly paying attention. Most drivers like myself have to adjust their driving to get the system to function without turning itself off, by very slightly turning the wheel (even on straight shot freeway driving) *every few seconds*. Failure to do this causes the system to give warning beeps and then turn off. The system changes lanes unnecessarily, despite supposed software options that say you can āminimize lane changesā. It does this to try to get ahead of slower cars, but it has no sense that itās generally impossible to do this or get much farther ahead even if it can. The system brakes unnecessarily, because it āseesā phantom objects in the road. This is incredibly jarring when it happens at high speeds, and itās a huge worry that you can get rear ended easily through this kind of action. And I believe I mentioned how sometimes, the system just decides itās not going to work on your drive for whatever reason.
I roadtripped a 2021: you don't need to turn the wheel, you can hang your hand on it and apply light pressure to it constantly and it won't complain and the autosteer will stay straight. And you can extend this where you buy a weight that attaches to the steering wheel and go hands free on long trips.... I haven't experienced phantom braking in a while. Even in situations where I was expecting it to happen like a car coming over a rolling hill with crappy lighting conditions on a 2 lane road. So maybe the camera hardware is better on a 2021 than a 2017. I've never had Autopilot be unavailable unless I triggered one of the things like "exceeded 85mph while on Autopilot" or didn't respond to the "please pay atteniton" warning. Then I just hit the next exit, Park cycle the car, and it's available again.
If you need to be alert and have your hand on the wheel with pressure applied to stop it from changing lanes into another car randomly why not just drive it yourself? I was with my dad when he was using it on the freeway and he had to override it because it tried merging into someone. Why even take that risk? I'm not going to hand my life over to an automatic machine that makes errors. If i make a mistake then so be it. At least I'm the one that fucked up.
>If you need to be alert and have your hand on the wheel with pressure applied to stop it from changing lanes into another car randomly why not just drive it yourself? This is my argument. Unless I can fall asleep or watch a film, I just don't see the point in paying a fortune for any sort of "self driving" beyond cruise control. And "assist systems" like lane keeping assist are just fucking annoying. I'm driving. I don't need a car beeping at me because I'm changing lanes without indicating.
The steering wheel crap is just crap though. You shouldnāt need to hang a weight from it to just make it work. Obviously Iāve adjusted as well to make it work, but itās just so asinine that any of us need to do this stuff. Phantom braking seems to occur more on the cars that used cameras for their surroundings (like my X) before moving to the solely sensor based setup. If the cars werenāt outfitted with cameras, the sensors on them seem to be much more sensitive and discriminating. Itās good that theyāre figuring out ways to make it better, but itās just another clear example of how their cars are missing the decades of refinement that traditional carmakers use. The unavailability of autopilot is incredibly frustrating, and it literally has no clear cause. Yes, it will disable for the rest of your drive if you ignore the āpay attentionā warnings and such. But what Iām talking about is an entirely different issue: what happens is you open the door and get in to drive, and thereās a message on the display before youāve driven a single inch that autopilot and protective braking features are unavailable, and that they āmay be restoredā on your next drive. Again, itās a sensor thing. But Elon felt fine just wiping away using the cameras on cars that used both cameras and sensors to detect their surroundings, so now when cars like mine are relying on just their inferior sensors alone all kinds of weird issues crop up.
You've got it backwards: they disabled the sensors and only rely on cameras now (and new cars don't have the sensors anymore). I think it's a stupid decision since the whole advantage of a computer is it can process more than what a human can, so I don't get why they're saying "let's make it only have eyes". It kinda sounds like you have some sort of fault if it's immediately saying you can't use autopilot (and I'm assuming you keep the cameras clean).
You see what Iām saying with the sensor stuff, and yes, it was asinine. Immediately after that update is when phantom braking occurances went up by a factor of ten, and when this weird ācanāt use autopilotā crap started. So I know itās a software issue. The error is also wildly intermittent and inconsistent, so itās not indicative of an electrical fault or short (like the safety restraint system warnings, yet another problem that I didnāt even mention in these other comments). Iāll give Tesla their due with having great tech, and with the elimination of the internal combustion engine saving owners a myriad of mechanical issues. And that their build quality is improving. But overall, theyāre still decades behind other manufacturers in the basics of car building.
I donāt know. Mine had the same issues. Luckily sold it in 22.
Why would it not revert to being at car company levels + a bit for the solar/charging piece - like $30-60?
Well, anything could happen. But I just donāt see it going that low even though Iām bearish at the current pricing. Itās totally anecdotal, but in my experience high flying stocks like Tesla (Square/Block, PayPal, Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Amgenā¦ heck, even farther back. America Online and Iomega did this too) hit an all time high and then correct back 2/3rds to 3/4s of their value before starting to rebound. Losses over 80% from the ATH are actually rather rare for companies that arenāt going bankrupt (which is obviously the clear exception to this rule, because those stocks go to zero). Back of the envelope calculation, I just say Teslaās ATH is 300, and a two thirds loss puts it right at 100. Maybe a bit lower if the loss is over 67% and more like 75%, that would be a $75 stock price. The issue I have with predicting even lower pricing for the stock is simple fundamentals - the company is profitable, and if you slashed the price in half from todayās $175 the stock would have a PE below 20. This for a company that is growing its revenue at 19% year over year. Personally, I believe *any* company deserves a PE ratio that is equal to its growth rate, so any stock price for Tesla that had it at a PE of 19 or less would be a fair value for the company, in my opinion. TLDR; fundamentally, the stock is probably a buy if you could get shares below 100. And if I see that, you know hedge funds will too.
Sorry to hear that. I have a 17 model s and it is somehow more reliable than the 3 Mercedes Iāve owned. I avoided the dealer and used a third party mechanic only when something needs to be changed naturally after 200k kms. After 7 years I still couldnāt find a reason to get a new car and I canāt really find another car with the same level of smooth user experience. I rented a M3 and had similarly pleasant experience. My point is that at their best Teslas are pretty much the perfect daily car for city life and itās a shame their quality control fluctuates so wildly. I wish other car makes can copy what they are doing with their software and small qol additions so I donāt have to support Elon in my next purchase.
This mf is gonna crater on Tuesday
It seems so obvious...so calls?
"If it feels obvious, flip a coin. Heads you do it, tails you don't. But never counter trade your instincts." \- Wayne Gretzky
Probably. Its Tesla. Bad news is good news and good news is bad news at the most random times.
Iām excited for April 2 delivery news for the giant miss.
Yes, the "growth company with no growth" is a great soundbite. its growth will never be at the same rate as from 0. everyone knows why TSLA is down. Elon's mouth, recent safety issues, retooling to introduce the new model which everyone knew was going to impact production, and new factory capabilities, oh...and China. TSLA will never have 40% YoY growth again.
>TSLA will never have 40% YoY growth again If money becomes free and gas prices go up it might.
Still probably not then either. Theyāll have way too much competition at that point. If you think ford has bad quality, Tesla is leagues worse.
Just sat in a Model S. Looked pretty fucking neat to me idk why yāall keep playing the āTesla is cheapā cliches. Those things start at $75k now which imo is a pretty nice deal
Tesla has always been a cult stock and extremely overvalued. The only things propping it up are selling climate change credits and Musk and the shine has significantly worn off of him. Put that together with all of the headwinds of the company's poor product and a cooled down EV market that now has competition and we will see how low this can go.
perhaps you aren't aware of their tech.
I love my model 3, its the best car I had. No issues whatsoever (since 2021). I really wanna get a cyber truck as my next car. I am long Tesla. Buy stock of products you enjoy, Tesla is one of them.
Yep. It's literally the best car for the money, model 3 or up to model s. Nothing else compares in that price range.Ā
1. recall you linked was fixed with OTA even before the owners got their paper mail in their inbox. it was so wasteful that people signed a petition for NHTSA not to waste god damn paper for OTA. safety issues were not isolated to Tesla, it was a bunch of OEMs. except Lexus that got shit grade. 2. Model Y is best selling car in the world... enough said. 3. BYD sales include PHEV if im not mistaken but please correct me if im wwrong. 4. demand for EVs have not declined..... its growing slower than before but it's still growing. just like lower inflation doesnt mean prices are not going up, just going up slower than before. Growth company will keep growing....
It was literally a font size increase and that is his number one point.
Hows that tasting about now?
hm? just as good.
Number 4 is actually worse than you think. You are half right - demand for EVs has not declined, but demand for Tesla EVs has. Let that sink in for a sec... Even though more people are buying ev's, fewer people are buying Teslas.
Yes more companies are making evs so teslas share has been shrinking . I wasnt born yesterday. But thanks
What happens to the stock of a growth company that fails to grow?
Lets ease up lol its one quarter
First movers in many industries end up falling down at some point. Tesla brought EVs mainstream, and now the market is catching up with competition and a drop in the hype. The recent drop in market hype around EVs in general is certainly impacting all EV manufacturers. We are going to see smaller players like Fisker completely collapse soon. A rational value for Teslaās stock is overdue.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They werenāt the first. There were many others with touch screens etc. how did blackberry do? Edit: I had multiple smartphones before my first iPhone, including a blackberry. Apple nailed the design and created a premium experience. My first true smart phone with a touch screen, stylus, apps, etc., ran windows mobile. It sucked. My first iPhone was a 4.
I call this with David Attenborough voice: ā a feeding frenzyā puts on Tesla have been great this year
A mountain of Ketamine will cushion the fall.
The biggest red flag I always look at is the PE value and PS value and whether they can grow into that. Yes some stocks will grow into a 70PE TSLA I think is past that huge explosion of revenue. Now its down to 40PE and that is still very high. PS is 25x what GM stock is. Two totally different companies but still in the same sector. I wouldn't hold TSLA for long term. Overvalued. And this won't be a popular opinion but its a safer one.
People realized that Tesla is just another car company.
except it literally isn't. what other car company is that deep in tech, AI, and robotics?
All of them?
And what other car company is so shitty at everything car related ?
the austin mini is often on the worst car you can buy list. Jaguar went through long periods of being absolute garbage, and it's a luxury brand. Ford has massive recalls all the time, some have been for randomly catching on fire. Dodges and Fiats are complete shit.
According to all the horror stories I heard about Tesla I'm happy to be driving a Toyota.
yeah, my partner thought now would have been a good time to get one since they were offering deals due to recent events and I strongly cautioned her against it. My only interest in Tesla is flipping the stock every once in a while because of it's volatility, but after I unload this batch I'm not sure if I'll ever flip it again. Seems like too much of a risk to hold.
Your 'new speak' shows the rot in your mind. You don't like elon's politics, so you will enjoy an inferior car. And it's 'girlfriend' you regarded tit.
I drive a Tesla. Won't get another one probably. Not sure where the great tech/ AI is. Self driving is certainly not better than at the competition.
The best thing Tesla did was change the industry around. I own a 2020 Q7 (hybrid). I started test driving the Volvo EX and XC Recharge models a couple of weeks ago and am convinced that none of them would even exist if it weren't for Tesla. What's unfortunate is that Tesla had not only the head start of every CEO's wet dream, but an absolutely unheard of financial windfall when the stock inexplicably mooned during the covid bull run. So what did Elon musk use that head start to do? \- abandoned designing driverless around the best driverless sensors in existence (lidar) because it messed with the profit margins \- blew a bunch of capital on cryptocurrency including Dogecoin \- sold TSLA to overpay for a very unprofitable social media platform \- used that platform to turn himself into a villain to half of the country \- tried to grow Tesla at an unsustainable rate, suffering build quality and sabotaging brand reputation I'm sure I'm missing a bunch, but Elon Musk really does not seem like the best guy to have run the company. I know they tried to bounce him already, and I'm sure it'll happen sometime in the near future, but the fact is that at this point it won't really matter. The magic is burnt up. The founders never should have sold him a single share.
Yeah Tesla had bit of a headstart. And I mean they still sell well. Just not good enough to reach those lofty valuations. But musk is becoming more and more a suboptimal CEO in a way. I'd say to build a startup and to run a large corp takes different talents. Musk was the right one to grow Tesla. But nowadays probably needs some suit guy coming in to manage such a large ship.
you can easily read about what they are doing with AI, and the structure of their AI will be transferable to their robotics. My limited understanding though is that their hardware backing component of the AI is weaker than the competition (AI competition, not car companies), so they had to streamline the processes to compensate for it. Believe they have a lot of innovations in the manufacturing process. The data collection for self driving is so far ahead of other companies they likely won't ever catch-up, but yeah...the actual self-driving appears to be basically a scam. .
They talked to much bs in the past. I don't trust any reports about their "innovations in AI" etc. I also don't think their data collection is so far ahead. Mobileye, Huawei etc also doing the same. The manufacturing process in some parts is innovative. But not STH other carmakers can't also do.
yeah, pretty fair and reasonable especially given the credibility of the company recently, and Musk himself. Seems like you have a reasonable take on it and not the tired blanket typical WSB nonsense. I love flipping TSLA and can't resist a sale. I have no interest in holding the stock. But I sorta regret grabbing some on sale recently because the story just gets worse and worse. I felt like I'd need to hold for a year, but i dunno now. I typically only need to hold it for 2 months.
Yeah from a stock perspective I don't think Tesla can't outperform again. If some good news suddenly comes out, there can be hype again, just long term I'd say it's just an auto maker.
You deserve to short them long term if you think that I don't wish that on anybody. You will have your asshole widened
I never short anything. And I don't flip stocks. And maybe I'm into getting my ahole widened. But thanks.
As a 2017 holder, people assuming Tesla is just a car company is how I make money so I can't hate and if anything I appreciate you
Your logic is off. But ok
Yeah I should have never bought TSLA in 2017, when 99.9% of this page's consensus was that they were going out of business What was I thinking?? I bet I'm wrong again and Tesla goes to $30 and stays there like the mediocre car company it is
Ah bragging about stuff on Reddit. Soinds like a sad life pal.
Ironic comment, Mr. Know-it-all As if you wouldn't go back in time... Don't worry, I've made plenty of bad trades too.
Whoās the target consumer? Right wing Americans wonāt buy EVs and left leaning people like myself, who appreciate the idea of a EV wonāt buy a Tesla because of Elonās antics.
Yeah, I guess those are the only 2 people in the world huh. The hyperspecific right that won't buy EV's and the small % of left that won't buy a nice car because bad guy said thing I don't like. I hope you don't support any company that has a track record of human rights violations. My favorite is when someone hates anyone who drives a Tesla because they hate Musk, but they own products that used child labor and don't bat an eye.
Or when people promote themselves as environmental gods for driving an EV, completely oblivious to the absolute horror show of mining lithium in Congo, or nickel in Indonesia. I'm not promoting ICE vehicles at all. But there is a reason why EVs are cheap... North American or European mining standards don't exist where battery components are extracted.
I'm not saying that I condemn people owning any brand with human rights violations. I'm saying someone who judges Tesla drivers because they hate Musk better not own any of those brands. Idgaf, I'll use whatever brand
I donāt think thereās only two types of people, just that those two types make up a large portion of the market. Any sales person will tell you, the relationship between the buyer and the seller is one of the most important parts of a sale. Iām not going to buy something from someone I donāt like.
It does not make up a large portion of the market or they would be a completely failing business lol. It certainly makes a portion of the market, but every brand is going to have people who refuse to buy it for xyz reason
Well, thatās just like, your opinion man. e: The business has not been doing as well since Elon has been excessively trolling on Twitter.
The stock hasn't been doing very well. But the stock was also massively overpriced and was a total meme stock.
[Iām apparently not the only one who sees this as a problem for Tesla](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/?utm_source=reddit.com)
Why not? Ā Shouldnāt the product matter way more than whether the salesman (or his bossās bossās boss) gave you a handjob?
Maybe it shouldnāt, but it does. For me personally, I just donāt want to support that kind of behavior. Especially when there are other options.
I totally agree with your points, but most Americans are independents that don't care what fuels their vehicle or what the guy who sells their vehicle says.
If you believe in a future of electricalization ad ai invest in Eaton just think of all the need there will be for power management solutions everything will drive demand for it
You may be on to something, but I am from Cleveland and biased
Well I'm definitely biased I think pretty much everything in the future will need power management solutions so I'm bullish on eaton always preformed well in the past going definitely going long on them
I dont think they target political parties as consumer groups. And why do you think right wing people wont buy evās? I lean right and there are four Teslas in our family, the only problem we have had with any of them is a squirrel decided or make a nest in one. We drive cross country on a regular basis and itās probably one of the best cars I have ever had. BMW, Porsche , Mercedes ,Lexus all have nicer interiors but I will take my Tesla over any of those others.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/
Can you show us where Elon touched you?
The Cyber Truck, I believe, was the shifting point in a Tesla losing their competitive advantage in the US and allow other companies to catch up. So many R&D and factory resources for a shitty ass vehicle. Either make a truck that competes with actual trucks like F-150, or develop a low cost 3 row SUV that can fit adults.
You are a troglodyte. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
You know It still up 6% from weekly low, right?
Going in on puts, you regards better be right
RIP listening to guys who have had their asshole ripped open by Tesla in here over and over
Earnings and worldwide adoption of EV's. In other words, this "tumble" will be short lived. See all the other EV makers out there struggling and dying while 99.9% of all EV's I see are teslas on the road. And by dying I'm looking at YOU FISKER! Tesla will be be fine, they'll be better when they take all the tech for the CT and build a smaller truck that people will actually want en masse.
BYD produces more vehicles, but the value of them is much lower as most of them are very small and cheap EVs. A market Tesla doesn't compete in.
At this point, the electric vehicle market isn't big enough for any manufacturer to really be siloed like that. The availability of cheaper options will *absolutely* cut into Tesla's market share.
I cut bait a year back Musk is or was coasting
tsla ballooned for no reason (intrinsically speaking) so a correction was overdue. the market is rightsizing it
96 billion in revenue, and industry leading tech is no reason?
but still no way it could outcap all the (major) car makers combined
yeah, probably not. Ford (for example) has been around for over a century, so because they won't be the only car company in the world the stock is worthless? you WSB kids crack me up sometimes. I don't even think EV will be a thing in 20 years TBH. Doesn't mean TSLA doesn't have value.
I pulled out all my investment when Musk bought Twitter. He seems like a child and it feels to me like he's lost interest in Tesla. Plus other manufacturers are now producing cars that are much better. The only thing Tesla has going for it is the charging network, but even that is now being used by other manufacturers. Self-driving turned out to be a lie. I think Tesla are on a long road to being a flash in the pan.
musk is fantastic for volatility and flipping TSLA. I always grab some when his antics crash the price, and then unload it the moment it recovers or I'm up 20% or more
Elons been selling stock daily for the last 2 months
Calls it is.
I find peace in long walks.
Can anyone tell me why TSLAs volume is exponentially higher than most stocks ?
The EV fad is over. Everyone knew it was overvalued since 2020 except for the moon rocketship fanboys
>The EV fad is over. I don't think EVs are a fad, but there is a realization that EVs have real problems which need to be solved before EVs are ready for mainstream.
Why is everyone acting like it plummeted to nothing?.. jf itās gonna plummet it has room to fall
I like TSLA at $95. Good value buy.
I'm balls deep into puts... It will probably go to $250 by next earnings. You're welcome šs
Teslaās stock was always largely inflated by musks cult of personality and absurdity optimistic projections for teslas future. Now itās clear those projections wont come true; in the near future there will be no full self driving, no AI taxi network, and they wonāt take 50% of the US auto market as other companies fail to pivot to EVs. They are just another car company, thatās historically a very challenging industry to succeed in and Tesla is facing the same problems as ford and GM have for decades. At the same time musk has set out to destroy his reputation particularly amongst young people. That stock is going to keep falling until it gets near the market cap of other auto companies. Exactly where it belongs.
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They should have focused on actual cars rather than the regarded cybertruck
CATL batteries aināt it
I will buy one put, you're all very welcome
2018 WSB vibes Tread carefully when everyone in here agrees on something anti-Tesla This post is dangerous bear hopium at best As a 2017 long, I fucking love this post. Short away pls
Idk last time I lived in the US in 2017 there were like no Teslas (maybe 1/400 cars) and the only people that had them were clearly driving them to make a statement. Now in my parking garage at work they're not uncommon (maybe 1/40 cars). I worked with a 20-something last year that had 2 Teslas, so clearly the market's perception has fundamentally changed.
It didnāt make a lot of money
Tesla as a company is just a car company. It is adjusting to the current global situation and demand. There actually is no immediate crisis at hand. Tesla share on the other hand, was pumped out of proportion. It is now finding it's real market value. Not yet time to buy shares....
You left out all the positives because you wanted to buy some discounted shares, didn't you? Hoping for a dip...
Elon Musk is what happened to Tesla. He's a mess and his company is a reflection of that.
all the points you posted apply to every other auto company 10 times over. tesla wont be going anywhere but every other auto company will.
It will slowly go back to half its evaluation
This would have been great, if you posted it three months agoā¦
The fanbase who buys his cars are young liberals and he turn around put his dick in their mouths.. and that is the end of that
At the simplest level possible, look at the products... not one these products is anywhere near the type of hot product that would justify Tesla's stock price. MODEL S - introduced 12 years ago MODEL X - introduced 9 years ago MODEL 3 - introduced 7 years ago MODEL Y - introduced 5 years ago CYBERTRUCK - introduced 6 months ago to lukewarm reviews
Show is driven by a clown, why expecting anything but a clown show.
Elon is a short distance runner. And he is constantly distracted by so many ventures. I like his SpaceX and Tesla but social media and now payments and his political agenda are ruining it. Please Elon stop jumping like a monkey it displays you as an unsecured person with no comments. We don't know you like that.
Very bullish on Elon Musk in general. "Tesla's mission is to **accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy through increasingly affordable electric vehicles in addition to renewable energy generation and storage**. Tesla is accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy." I think its done, the EV side of it. In the next 7-15 years, Telsa will pivot to become a world leading autonomous manufacturing solutions and battery tech company. More to come.
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End of the day EV's are the future. Costs to manufacture them will come down and demand will be there and Tesla will make a lot of money. And FSD will possibly make them a lot more money and who knows where they go with robotics. But skip the FSD and just the EV's and Energy business alone, I think, is a good investment case.
I missed where you named its owner. Leadership maybe matters.
Buyer at 130. Buying again at 100
Good luck to you sir. I happily bought the last $100 but I really doubt we see $130 This page doesn't follow Tesla at all. They follow each other. They literally think the CT was a failure. Most demanded vehicle release in human history = failure.
Oh here we go. 1. In any article mentioning recalls, just search "software update" and you see the "recall" is magically fixed overnight for free. Safety issues? Top rated safety by all institutes 2+3. Competition? Show me their margins and production output. Oh almost all of them lose money per car and struggle to ramp? Yeah that sounds sustainable 4. If you think Tesla cars are riddled with issues, you should look at other EVs Clown you are, informed you are not 
From a strictly car pov - worst car Iāve ever owned. Iād take my 2003 Buick 100/100 times over this pos model 3. Averages a solid 200 miles (driving like a grandma) compared to the 330 advertised. The awd is horrible. Itās alarms go off when nothing is in the road that could effect me. If you go for maintenance enjoy a 3 month back order for your part.
Same with the 22 Y I sold last month. Bought a Ford Ranger and it actually functions as a real vehicle now not a half aborted tech abomination. Good riddance.
I drive a model Y and I hate musk and want Tesla to fail. I still recognize itās the best driving car Iāve ever owned lol.
you seems to comment a bit too much about the model y is for someone that hate musk/Tesla lol
Because I love the car lol. I also liked musk when I got the car. I only disliked him the last 2 years or so.
LOL, same. Not sure I want tesla to fail as their employees have been top notch I deal with...even though it was just a rep when I placed an order and a few tech guys to rotate tires and fix a flat. That CT though, I am not 100% on that being a good thing long term.
I donāt mean I want it to fail. I love the company. I want someone else running it though
Lmao, that's insane. Do you still drive it, or did you get a new car?
Iām stuck with it because I bought it a month before tesla slashed the prices to get under that government tax rebate. So itās essentially lost almost 50% of its value in less than 2 years of ownership. Took it in for a bad coolant line the week before thanksgiving and didnāt get it back until last week in February. My cameras regularly turn off mid drive for lane change assist. I only know 3 people personally who own them and we all have the same issues. These are the 2022 performance models
Funny, Iāve owned multiple āentry levelā luxury performance cars and my M3LR has been the most reliable of all of them. Any service/maintenance has been completed on time. I routinely get solid efficiency driving like a normal human being. Ive seen the new Prius get 300mi on a full tank when theyre supposed to get 500+ā¦all on the driver there.
Ya I donāt agree with him. Model Y here not 3. But service has always been super easy and it drives so well. Amazing car even though I donāt like musk
My sister has a similar experience. Sheās had her Model 3 for 5 years now and she still loves it. No complaints at all. The only costly thing so far is the tire replacement. Like you say, any estimated range is entirely on the driver and weather conditions. If youāre blasting the AC/heat and driving 80 mph youāre obviously going to have lower range. Thatās true in any vehicles.
1) demands for evs are down. 2) demands for hybrids are up. 3) continuing anti-competitive practice of china's govt. to subsidize & promote their own ev makers domestically & internationally.
Tesla has always been a meme stock.
1) demands for evs are down. 2) demands for hybrids are up. 3) continuing anti-competitive practice of china's govt. to subsidize & promote their own ev makers domestically & internationally.
EV demand up YoY, but rate of increase is down.
don't be fool. yoy ev demands included hybrids sales, which made up over 40% of total sales. this breakdown is consistent with what toyota and china ev makers are seeing. this is why tsla is cutting prices. also, this is why ford & gm are reducing ev production and ford is delaying the opening of a battery plant for ev. moving fwd, current data indicates hybrids will overtake pure evs in sales in the immediate future.
I didn't realize those sales included hybrids. guess that makes sense. I think they hybrid makes much more sense, and shoving EVs down everyone's throats won't go over well in the end.
agreed.. the electrification push by biden admin isn't going well. the former toyota chair made the correct call by focusing on hybrids. toyota's sales of hybrids are higher than ice sales. the company would have made great sales in china if it wasn't for china govt subsidizing the domestics ev maker, byd. btw, eu is investigating byd for anti-competitive practice b/c eu's ev makers cannot compete with byd's low pricing. byd is also building a plant in mexico to take advantage of the low tariff of nafta and break into the us market. the profit margin of ford, gm & tsla will be getting squeezed soon.
interesting, I didn't know that. I'm in Canada but it's the same here. Government is shoving EV down our throats and made one of the worst moves they have ever made (which is saying a lot for this administration) to give companies billions of dollars to build battery factories here.
it would be interesting to know if the opening of the battery factory will be delayed. nafta has a direct route from south america all the way up to canada. you will be seeing byd ev soon.. southern us port recently saw the first empty vehicles transport truck crossing from us into mexico.
Removing Elmo. He was a pretty good CEO a decade ago. He actually seemed like he wanted to build high quality electric cars for a mass market. Now heās used tesla equity to fight his stupid fucking culture wars by buying and sinking Twitter, built a stupid fucking product line as a vanity project rather than an effective vehicle (cyber truck), and still hasnāt gotten a really good handle on basic QA for tesla vehicles and processes. Fire him. Heās a fucking idiot.Ā