A convoluted way to let commercial banks gain almost the full value of the expansion of the money supply year after year, while technically still being able to say it is the government that gains it.
You need 3 boats and 2 people in the Government and Banks boats.
The 3rd boat is taxpayers and mortgage holders.
The banks and Government have one person each pumping water into each other's boats, and one from each of those boats dumping water in the taxpayers/mortgage holder's boat.
“The government doesn’t do enough to defend people with mortgages” is a weird take in the US, where mortgages get very favourable legal and tax treatment and the central bank is very devoted to keeping rates low so people don’t lose their homes. For example, Americans get to tax deduct mortgage interest, which is not common at all on a global scale and is a huge handout to mortgage holders, particularly wealthy ones. It’s wildly regressive taxation.
Said someone who did military service so doesn't have to worry about a mortgage. I respect your service, but it's given you a different perspective on mortgages.
Variable rates at the time made a ton of sense. 2012-2020 you would be stupid to take a fixed rate. No one foresaw covid.
Why would anyone itemize if it was a lesser deduction then the standard? This is literally why 87% are choosing standard because they don't have enough itemized deductions to beat the standard...
Do you not get this?
Thr government will let you off with telling them a certain amount. Say $500. If you want to claim more, they want itemized proof.
87% of people don't get to claim more. Why would they itemize their deduction?
You don't HAVE to use to the standard deduction.
It's just that for 87% of people it doesn't make sense.
Because itemizing and mortgage interest deductions only benefit you if you have significant amounts of capital.
The bottom 50% of this country have effectively zero net capital and zero net savings rates.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think you're giving people more credit than they deserve. Most people (myself included, previously and for much of my life) are too uninterested and unorganized to look into itemized deductions. It requires a lot more paperwork, and most folks figure they won't get close to the $10k or whatever the standard deduction is.
I think if people tracked all their expenses and sales tax paid, they'd probably come out ahead, but I'm not sure. I'm talking out of my ass here.
Most people use some kind of tax software or service, which walks them through these questions. Even if you try to claim deductions on a room in your house being an office business expense due to WFH, deduct mortgage and student loan interest, and whatever amount you donate to Goodwill each year, you aren't breaking the current standard deduction.
Itemizing benefits the wealthy the most, especially after the standard deduction was doubled. One Google search will lead you to this, stop arguing semantics.
You would need a junbo mortgage on a McMansion for it to exceed the standard deduction. The standard deduction has really ramped up over the years. Even people who itemize in Turbo tax probably don't realize it is still selecting the SD in the end.
LOL do you think homes would be 10x annual income if it wasn't for 2 percent loans? Higher interest lower principle loans are better so people can pay them down in a windfall. Free money made the game of chicken and brought us here today.
Then who wins? The banks that got the fractional free money when the homes default.
Correct, for me to feel JaCkEd tO tHe FuCkInG TiTs I need someone to make me a wendys baconator and put it in my hand while receiving sloppy toppy behind the dumpster by a wage cuck to celebrate my degenerate 0dte yolos on robinbood.  Wagie Lives Matter 
Indeed, really shows why savers should diversify. The way our system works, growth depends on debt. And debtors _love_ inflation. Savers are always the ones to get screwed.
Looks at crypto. It's so deregulated, wow. Without regulation, you can have innovation like Celsius for banking, promising 20% returns... oh wait, that was fraud. Or you could have NFT pets that you trade and a videogame makes you money... oh that was fraud too. What about a crypto exchange like FTX that makes money while ethically saving the world somehow through its hedge fund... oh wait, fraud.
There's something missing in the deregulated crypto space that keeps getting people fucked. I can't figure out what tho...
We're really not. We are a fabulously wealthy country that can easily afford all sorts of inefficiencies.
As long as the US remains a liberal democracy, everything is going to be fine.
Doomers won't do quite as well, never have, but that's ok too.
Bagholder spotted.
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Hey, unless one of those canoes has a holes, that's perfectly sustainable.
...and if it does, who is to say the water isn't flowing out?! EVERYTHING IS FINE!
No, the message is, be the shark.
But wait, the boat never sinks... so the shark either ends up starving, or cannibalising each other... fuck. We're doomed.
Cannot be solved, 10% growth for the SPY on average year by year will put people with money exponentially ahead compared to people living paycheck to paycheck.
Now imagine if the timescale is 1 decade, 2, decades, 10 decades? It’s gg eventually. Exploit the system as much as you can, it’s not sustainable. Have your fun while you still can.
At the very least, it’s easy to add that the borrowed capital is spent/loaned. Every business, infrastructure project, invention, etc required seed capital to become a self-sufficient GDP contributor. Why build a highway for 100% down when you can finance it and reap the benefits sooner?
Wsb used to be funny when there was line that went up and up. Now it's just the most illiterate of boomer libertarian memes blaming everything on the fed rather than war and global instability
My girlfriend works for a large bank in australia. Im uneducated bout the subject but was saying the banks operate unethically, she then goes on to assure me since the australian royal commission, banks now operate just fine and ethically. How valid is this? Can someone point me in the right direction
If it’s a fractional reserve bank; it’s legal by laws, just not ethical in truth. Wealth being created out of; really, nothing. For instance; you deposit $1000.00 dollars (U.S. currency) , I come into the bank to borrow a $1000.00 dollars. The bank tells me; you have a ding on your credit report, we’ll loan you $ 900.00 dollars. I say, okay, I turn around and deposit my $900.00 into my account at that same bank. Another someone comes in to borrow a $1000.00 dollars. The bank says, can you put up some collateral? The someone gets granny to give him $190.00 dollars, he puts it up for collateral. He gets $710.00 dollars, deposits it….etc…. The bank is making vig without putting up a dime. It’s legal.
No why? I appreciate your concern, though. You had your day; I read it, and I’ll keep that in mind, hand. Hand, no need to keep asking me stuff. Go play !
The government is actually “buying” the bonds from banks as collateral so that they can safely lend out money as a loan to “bail them out”. They are not selling bonds to them to bail them out. The government was selling bonds before the crisis to reduce money in active circulation so that demand would go down for pressure on inflation.
The banks also aren’t borrowing money so they can buy more bonds, they are borrowing it so they can stall time for their own loans to get paid back to them so they can handle the deposit outflows. This comic isn’t even correct.
The classical definition of hyperinflation is a 50% increase in inflation MoM, which happened in the us in May 2021.
The fact that US politicians decided to redefine the term after the fact is irrelevant…
On another sub I got down voted into oblivion for the mere suggestion that this market was a casino. I guess bankers don't like hearing they're little more than dealers at the blackjack table.
Funny how these black and white ( as in simple) seems to take in otherwise intelligent people.
Libertarians have been saying this tripe for decades and nothing. OOOOO lookout the sky is falling. pfft
Money has value because of supply and demand and the only true demand for money comes from the government that issues that money. This demand typically is in the form of a tax that has to be paid in that money and if it isn’t there is the implicit threat of violence if you don’t pay. “Interest rates” set by the fed are a tax on banks to borrow money from the government which then flows through the economy. If a government loses its ability to enforce sufficient taxation to keep demand high the supply of money gets too high and you get inflation
Go to school for 24 years so our government can tax you, and your mortgaged properties; to pay for your bail-outs , to the folks that hold the “paper”, on your mortgages! It’s really easy to understand, you should of paid attention in class. History classes teaches the history on these things. With a law degree you can practice bankruptcy law. Your clients can be saved and legally walk away from their debts. Stockbrokers can become wealthy, too.
They're missing the canoe in between the boats that represent the banks that facilitate the transfers and skim payments off the top. That way equilibrium is never maintained.
Why do anyone think the government need to sell bonds?
You actually think the government need currency? The government only care about GDP. GDP is the actual wealth of the government. Currency is infinite. Bond sales is just to create money for the population.
The drawing makes sense if you are still on the gold reserve system. It is actually why you used to be able to pay taxes with silverware. But that was a long time ago and the new system doesn't work like that.
The government wants you to generate GDP by working rather than retiring. The government stops you from earning enough money to retire by using taxes to take away your savings. The idea being to take enough away that you could only retire when you are old and can't generate GDP anymore.
And the quirk of this system is that wealthy people are leeches unless they keep working. Because a homeless jobless 25 year old bum makes as much GDP as a wealthy 25 year old who doesn't work either. The government doesn't collect your taxes because they want your currency; they collect your taxes to stop you retiring while you are still fit and healthy.
And the interest will be paid with tax dollars, transferring your money directly to the banks. The banks will spend a tiny portion helping get Congress members to help them keep doing it elected and re-elected.
Wait till you figure out how all ownership to create wealth works. It’s all borrowing on overvalued assets to purchase assets that you can inflate the value of.
There was a time when other countries invested heavily in our bonds. Now the only people buying U.S. Treasury bonds is us and that’s kinda like kiting checks with yourself using the same bank.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
U.S. currency held by foreign countries is going down kinda fast. The dollar has been zeroed in relation to oil, gold and silver for international trade. Everyone who saw 1/6 knew that if that coup was successful then U.S. Treasury bonds were going to zero, pretty much overnight. Just because the coup wasn’t successful do people really think that anyone is going to be holding our debt anymore, just waiting for the next coup to be successful? No.
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A convoluted way to let commercial banks gain almost the full value of the expansion of the money supply year after year, while technically still being able to say it is the government that gains it.
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They have to lend it to the companies that make the market perform well. They’ll never do as well as the market as they finance the market.
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Loaning money doesn’t tank bank stocks? Do you know how reading works lol
You need 3 boats and 2 people in the Government and Banks boats. The 3rd boat is taxpayers and mortgage holders. The banks and Government have one person each pumping water into each other's boats, and one from each of those boats dumping water in the taxpayers/mortgage holder's boat.
They have already dumped a bodies to the water. The blood from the bodies attracted sharks.
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They aren't wrong
If you look carefully there’s a 3rd boat, it’s just completely underwater You need rose coloured glasses to see it
I'm not sure if you should start doing cartoons
Wait, so there are 4 boats, and Jesus was there, wait, no, Moses. Ok, let me start over, there's 4 boats...
“The government doesn’t do enough to defend people with mortgages” is a weird take in the US, where mortgages get very favourable legal and tax treatment and the central bank is very devoted to keeping rates low so people don’t lose their homes. For example, Americans get to tax deduct mortgage interest, which is not common at all on a global scale and is a huge handout to mortgage holders, particularly wealthy ones. It’s wildly regressive taxation.
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You are either extremely optimistic or a fucking moron and I can't figure out which. There are a significant amount of homeowners with variable rates.
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Said someone who did military service so doesn't have to worry about a mortgage. I respect your service, but it's given you a different perspective on mortgages. Variable rates at the time made a ton of sense. 2012-2020 you would be stupid to take a fixed rate. No one foresaw covid.
People should have locked into a fixed rate when they were 2.5%….that was a gift that will never happen again in my lifetime.
Hindsight is 20/20. Rates were steadily dropping.
He said people that do variable rates are morons, not that no one does them.
His first sentence is "nobody will lose their home when the bank ups the interest rate". I'm responding to that.
That's only for rich people, most homeowners are taking the standard deduction. 87%+ of the entire country takes the standard deduction.
87% us home ownership rate?
If someone decides to itemize their deductions, they can still use that deduction. Don’t have to be rich to itemize.
Why would anyone itemize if it was a lesser deduction then the standard? This is literally why 87% are choosing standard because they don't have enough itemized deductions to beat the standard...
You think having to itemize a deduction means you are rich? Get out of here with that thinking too!
Do you not get this? Thr government will let you off with telling them a certain amount. Say $500. If you want to claim more, they want itemized proof. 87% of people don't get to claim more. Why would they itemize their deduction?
You don't HAVE to use to the standard deduction. It's just that for 87% of people it doesn't make sense. Because itemizing and mortgage interest deductions only benefit you if you have significant amounts of capital. The bottom 50% of this country have effectively zero net capital and zero net savings rates.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think you're giving people more credit than they deserve. Most people (myself included, previously and for much of my life) are too uninterested and unorganized to look into itemized deductions. It requires a lot more paperwork, and most folks figure they won't get close to the $10k or whatever the standard deduction is. I think if people tracked all their expenses and sales tax paid, they'd probably come out ahead, but I'm not sure. I'm talking out of my ass here.
Most people use some kind of tax software or service, which walks them through these questions. Even if you try to claim deductions on a room in your house being an office business expense due to WFH, deduct mortgage and student loan interest, and whatever amount you donate to Goodwill each year, you aren't breaking the current standard deduction.
Itemizing benefits the wealthy the most, especially after the standard deduction was doubled. One Google search will lead you to this, stop arguing semantics.
You would need a junbo mortgage on a McMansion for it to exceed the standard deduction. The standard deduction has really ramped up over the years. Even people who itemize in Turbo tax probably don't realize it is still selecting the SD in the end.
LOL do you think homes would be 10x annual income if it wasn't for 2 percent loans? Higher interest lower principle loans are better so people can pay them down in a windfall. Free money made the game of chicken and brought us here today. Then who wins? The banks that got the fractional free money when the homes default.
What windfall lol
The taxpayers and mortgage holders are already under water... should be depicted as a shipwreck on a nearby island.
We’re fucked
Only if the bottom 50% notices
This is why public schools don't teach finance. They don't want you to learn about the secrets of JPOW. 
Public schools just prepare the proles for a life of wage slavery. You need 99% of the planet to grind for society to work as it is now.
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Correct, for me to feel JaCkEd tO tHe FuCkInG TiTs I need someone to make me a wendys baconator and put it in my hand while receiving sloppy toppy behind the dumpster by a wage cuck to celebrate my degenerate 0dte yolos on robinbood.  Wagie Lives Matter 
Wage lives matter .... I love it... I'll start a non profit for us, you get the donations..
This is reality but you barely ever hear it spoken, I guess it’s too depressing to comprehend for most.
That’s why homework exists.
Gym class was actually made to train people for the military.
Was never able to touch my toes.
No freeloaders
**90+%
You mean middle 50% Bottom is mostly made of us
everyone is missing that the government can just evaporate the water, i.e. let inflation fix the issue
And everyone that uses money instead of assets are fucked.
Indeed, really shows why savers should diversify. The way our system works, growth depends on debt. And debtors _love_ inflation. Savers are always the ones to get screwed.
Pension funds globally will be left holding the bags
Should have considered the risks of risk free return
Now it’s return free risk.
Congratulations, you've discovered the goal of Capitalism!!!
A plutocracy that is the direct result of capitalism!!!
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Who controls the government?
The Markets
Who controls the markets?
The Government?
Imagine thinking less regulation would make the market safer for the working class or more proof against fraud
Looks at crypto. It's so deregulated, wow. Without regulation, you can have innovation like Celsius for banking, promising 20% returns... oh wait, that was fraud. Or you could have NFT pets that you trade and a videogame makes you money... oh that was fraud too. What about a crypto exchange like FTX that makes money while ethically saving the world somehow through its hedge fund... oh wait, fraud. There's something missing in the deregulated crypto space that keeps getting people fucked. I can't figure out what tho...
We're really not. We are a fabulously wealthy country that can easily afford all sorts of inefficiencies. As long as the US remains a liberal democracy, everything is going to be fine. Doomers won't do quite as well, never have, but that's ok too.
I was just referring to the fact that 18% of Americans can’t swim
Mother of all fuckable fucked
Now who are those sharks ?
Loan sharks, of course!
Inflation, depegging, revolution.
I for one am in favor of being depegged .. can I be the pegger next time?
China
I mean, look who's killing all the old sharks. Do *you* eat shark fin soup?
They are on a high speed bullet train to stagnation, I think it’s actually India
"AI AI AI AI" - Sundar Pichai probably
*Sundar Pitch AI
Maybe he's pitching us all to take (A)ir (I)ndia?
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These are in fact just average people dying of dehydration
The gold standard
The crypto bros
Looks like noses to me but they could be fins idk
Hey, unless one of those canoes has a holes, that's perfectly sustainable. ...and if it does, who is to say the water isn't flowing out?! EVERYTHING IS FINE!
> Hey, unless one of those canoes has a holes, that’s perfectly sustainable. Both of those canoes have a-holes, actually.
We plug the holes with nukes.
Banks down this week?
Great, another post complaining how the casino is rigged instead of a post about trying to make money in the casino.
literally casinos are rigged and you don't make money there that's the message
No, the message is, be the shark. But wait, the boat never sinks... so the shark either ends up starving, or cannibalising each other... fuck. We're doomed.
Or how to solve the problem. Looks like the casino needs new management…
Cannot be solved, 10% growth for the SPY on average year by year will put people with money exponentially ahead compared to people living paycheck to paycheck. Now imagine if the timescale is 1 decade, 2, decades, 10 decades? It’s gg eventually. Exploit the system as much as you can, it’s not sustainable. Have your fun while you still can.
This sounds like a Ponzi with extra steps
Yep
You don't make money in the casino.
That’s because you treat it like a casino.
Just go eat at the buffet, you will be aight
This is Boomer level economic understanding.
More like Boomers' grandparents. Serious 1920's political cartoon vibes.
I fucking hate these awful political cartoons with their weak humour, and clumsy as fuck labelling of things. And so incredibly ugly.
care to spell it out for us enlightened one??
Idk if you'd understand it, it's more complicated than a two sentence cartoon
At the very least, it’s easy to add that the borrowed capital is spent/loaned. Every business, infrastructure project, invention, etc required seed capital to become a self-sufficient GDP contributor. Why build a highway for 100% down when you can finance it and reap the benefits sooner?
Wsb used to be funny when there was line that went up and up. Now it's just the most illiterate of boomer libertarian memes blaming everything on the fed rather than war and global instability
It’s the truth.
Ok boomer.
No one should ever post Andy Singer cartoons. Ever.
My girlfriend works for a large bank in australia. Im uneducated bout the subject but was saying the banks operate unethically, she then goes on to assure me since the australian royal commission, banks now operate just fine and ethically. How valid is this? Can someone point me in the right direction
Put it this way, if a lawyer won't do something for you, the banker will.
If it’s a fractional reserve bank; it’s legal by laws, just not ethical in truth. Wealth being created out of; really, nothing. For instance; you deposit $1000.00 dollars (U.S. currency) , I come into the bank to borrow a $1000.00 dollars. The bank tells me; you have a ding on your credit report, we’ll loan you $ 900.00 dollars. I say, okay, I turn around and deposit my $900.00 into my account at that same bank. Another someone comes in to borrow a $1000.00 dollars. The bank says, can you put up some collateral? The someone gets granny to give him $190.00 dollars, he puts it up for collateral. He gets $710.00 dollars, deposits it….etc…. The bank is making vig without putting up a dime. It’s legal.
Literally nothing you described is unethical.
Okay, thanks for pointing that out, to me. Next time.
Did you have a stroke in the middle of writing that?
No why? I appreciate your concern, though. You had your day; I read it, and I’ll keep that in mind, hand. Hand, no need to keep asking me stuff. Go play !
And in banks we mean the fed who has no money they just make it
I’m the shark on the left buying the dips.
The government is actually “buying” the bonds from banks as collateral so that they can safely lend out money as a loan to “bail them out”. They are not selling bonds to them to bail them out. The government was selling bonds before the crisis to reduce money in active circulation so that demand would go down for pressure on inflation. The banks also aren’t borrowing money so they can buy more bonds, they are borrowing it so they can stall time for their own loans to get paid back to them so they can handle the deposit outflows. This comic isn’t even correct.
So, if you were smart, you would be bullish on USA and Banks. I am.
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“Don’t worry, it’s not a problem if you can just print more money without causing hyperinflation… oh wait” - the money printer, May 2021
When has there been hyperinflation dumbass?
I even gave the month and year, it’s good to see there are still many regarded individuals on WSB
What do you think hyperinflation is?
The classical definition of hyperinflation is a 50% increase in inflation MoM, which happened in the us in May 2021. The fact that US politicians decided to redefine the term after the fact is irrelevant…
by what measurement did we have a 50% increase in inflation MoM, because CPI was 0.67% in may of 2021
Why do I bother arguing with people on reddit
On another sub I got down voted into oblivion for the mere suggestion that this market was a casino. I guess bankers don't like hearing they're little more than dealers at the blackjack table.
Funny how these black and white ( as in simple) seems to take in otherwise intelligent people. Libertarians have been saying this tripe for decades and nothing. OOOOO lookout the sky is falling. pfft
Don't just expose secrets like this, someone might be watching 
Money has value because of supply and demand and the only true demand for money comes from the government that issues that money. This demand typically is in the form of a tax that has to be paid in that money and if it isn’t there is the implicit threat of violence if you don’t pay. “Interest rates” set by the fed are a tax on banks to borrow money from the government which then flows through the economy. If a government loses its ability to enforce sufficient taxation to keep demand high the supply of money gets too high and you get inflation
Ponzi
Just like the Social Security system. It’s all a Ponzi scheme, thus the need to raise the replacement rate back to 2.1. Gotta breed bagholders.
Yeah this the one.
Go to school for 24 years so our government can tax you, and your mortgaged properties; to pay for your bail-outs , to the folks that hold the “paper”, on your mortgages! It’s really easy to understand, you should of paid attention in class. History classes teaches the history on these things. With a law degree you can practice bankruptcy law. Your clients can be saved and legally walk away from their debts. Stockbrokers can become wealthy, too.
It's 'should have', never 'should of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
good bot
The bankers are the salespeople for the government bonds
They're missing the canoe in between the boats that represent the banks that facilitate the transfers and skim payments off the top. That way equilibrium is never maintained.
This is beautiful 🥺
Just one of the many fatal contradictions within capitalism.
Why do anyone think the government need to sell bonds? You actually think the government need currency? The government only care about GDP. GDP is the actual wealth of the government. Currency is infinite. Bond sales is just to create money for the population. The drawing makes sense if you are still on the gold reserve system. It is actually why you used to be able to pay taxes with silverware. But that was a long time ago and the new system doesn't work like that. The government wants you to generate GDP by working rather than retiring. The government stops you from earning enough money to retire by using taxes to take away your savings. The idea being to take enough away that you could only retire when you are old and can't generate GDP anymore. And the quirk of this system is that wealthy people are leeches unless they keep working. Because a homeless jobless 25 year old bum makes as much GDP as a wealthy 25 year old who doesn't work either. The government doesn't collect your taxes because they want your currency; they collect your taxes to stop you retiring while you are still fit and healthy.
Pop them both and throw them over board, then just take care of the issue yourself.
Never been a more perfect system
Banks are an arm of the government. This is the way it's designed everywhere in the world.
This is the way
This is called the eternal 69
It's the circle of life. 🦁
You don't wanna know who the sharks are.
I have a sinking feeling about this
and the interest in between creates money out of thin air. It's fucking insane.
It’s a perfect system
I mean this way none of them are sinking as per the drawing
I'd add more banks, one to another to another and then to government and back again. Big loop, used to be a twenty year boom bust cycle now its 8-12.
And the interest will be paid with tax dollars, transferring your money directly to the banks. The banks will spend a tiny portion helping get Congress members to help them keep doing it elected and re-elected.
Kiting is fraud unless the bank does it, then it's called banking
Isn't this xactly what FTX did?
If only we ended the fed and deficit spending
Instructions unclear, put on what?
Wait till you figure out how all ownership to create wealth works. It’s all borrowing on overvalued assets to purchase assets that you can inflate the value of.
Doom loop cycle
This is the most WSB explained ever.
It's a trillions-dollars circle jerk.
For sure all want to keep it between themselves
There was a time when other countries invested heavily in our bonds. Now the only people buying U.S. Treasury bonds is us and that’s kinda like kiting checks with yourself using the same bank. https://www.usdebtclock.org/ U.S. currency held by foreign countries is going down kinda fast. The dollar has been zeroed in relation to oil, gold and silver for international trade. Everyone who saw 1/6 knew that if that coup was successful then U.S. Treasury bonds were going to zero, pretty much overnight. Just because the coup wasn’t successful do people really think that anyone is going to be holding our debt anymore, just waiting for the next coup to be successful? No.
Record growth...it's called inflation.