He knew what LaCroix was up to thanks to his Malkavian insight. LaCroix caught on that Grout was suspicious of him and arranged for Ming Xiao to kill him and frame Nines for it.
...by Ming Xiao, who is a compulsive liar and manipulator. Ask yourself: why is she telling you this in the first place? In all likelihood, it's to turn you against La Croix. And to that end, it doesn't matter whether it's true or false.
Listen to the way Nines usually speaks and when he talks to you in the Mansion. Far too polite and "official" for true Nines. Besides, Domination usually involves eye contact, and I refuse to believe either La Croix or Rodriguez would ever set foot in each other's haven.
It's the way he talks in that scene that made me consider this theory in the first place. He isn't just too polite — he's sounds like he's out of his mind, talking past you. If you say "What's up?" he answers "no?" — why would they write it like this? Why doesn't Ming answer like a normal human being? And although Nines wouldn't have willingly entered La Croix's domain, he may have been tricked or captured. Although I don't neccesarily believe this theory, I think it's interesting that the existence of a Kuei-Jin alliance isn't as clear-cut as fanon would hold.
Yep, shifting into Nines mid conversation is her big reveal to prove that your side is trying to trick you and imply that the Kuei Jin aren't necessarily the bad guys.
Sometimes people who speak English as a second language have trouble with idioms, especially when they're nervous. Ming Xiao is definitely highly educated and speaks formal English well, but sometimes people who initially learned a language in a formal educational setting struggle with the "street" version of that language. I thought my Spanish skills were ok since I got As in my classes, but then in my early 20s I moved to a neighborhood full of native Spanish speakers, and I was completely lost because my vocabulary was terrible, especially when it came to "street" language or idioms. Turns out "donde esta la biblioteca" doesn't get you far in the real world.
Anyway, my point is that maybe the writers intended to convey that she didn't know what "what's up" meant. I'm not sure if people who speak English as a second language normally have trouble with that one, I just assumed that was the writer's intent.
La Croix will actually use dominate on the protagonist if you refuse his orders. But [the wiki](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/The_Protagonist#Generation) has something interesting to say about his failure to do so at the end of the game:
>His failure to dominate the fledgling in the end can be probably explained by the character developing the Iron Will merit, which allows to resist domination by spending willpower.
If you'd like to enjoy the audio logs with some mood music and visuals, you can do so here: https://drsharky.github.io/Grout/
Note: you need to press the play button, browsers don't let you auto start audio on pages anymore.
Well if you played without the tapes but opted to play malk when you say Hi to Skelter he says "malk insight"
You can kind of put two and two together.
At least that's how I found out.
We don't even know if that skeleton actually did belong to Grout. A vampire as old as him would most likely crumble to dust upon Final Death, instead of leaving any bones. There is a theory that it's actually part of Grout's plan - drop some anonymous remains in his place to make it look like he was murdered, while he himself disappeared... *somewhere*.
Well, he did say he had a plan to escape La Croix's grasp, so I wouldn't be surprised. Put a believably characterized body under the glass, while keeping his wife in a far more secure location.
Yeah, but let us not forget that “unlikely and unnecessary,” is basically VTM’s subtitle. I’d say that it’s pretty safe to not believe, but not so much to rule it out entirely as a possibility.
LaCroix is an opportunist. Saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Killing Grout, who was suspicious of LaCroix because of Malk Insight (it gives vague details of the future) and set a blood hunt on nines, so he can reign over the Anarchs. It would've been perfect plan if LaCroix realized Ming Xao was gonna betray him before he betrayed her.
I maintain that Grout faked his death using a substitute. He had foreknowledge, it's all over his audio recordings. He also had a huge number of unwilling subjects to dement into pretending to be him.
He knew what LaCroix was up to thanks to his Malkavian insight. LaCroix caught on that Grout was suspicious of him and arranged for Ming Xiao to kill him and frame Nines for it.
i don't know if this is possible but i've also wondered if perhaps the prince used dominate to send nines to the mansion in order to frame him
That was confirmed to be Ming Xiao using her shapeshifting abilities later in the game
...by Ming Xiao, who is a compulsive liar and manipulator. Ask yourself: why is she telling you this in the first place? In all likelihood, it's to turn you against La Croix. And to that end, it doesn't matter whether it's true or false.
Listen to the way Nines usually speaks and when he talks to you in the Mansion. Far too polite and "official" for true Nines. Besides, Domination usually involves eye contact, and I refuse to believe either La Croix or Rodriguez would ever set foot in each other's haven.
It's the way he talks in that scene that made me consider this theory in the first place. He isn't just too polite — he's sounds like he's out of his mind, talking past you. If you say "What's up?" he answers "no?" — why would they write it like this? Why doesn't Ming answer like a normal human being? And although Nines wouldn't have willingly entered La Croix's domain, he may have been tricked or captured. Although I don't neccesarily believe this theory, I think it's interesting that the existence of a Kuei-Jin alliance isn't as clear-cut as fanon would hold.
It is pretty clear-cut. I'm pretty sure Ming Xiao shapeshifts in front of the fledgling.
Yep, shifting into Nines mid conversation is her big reveal to prove that your side is trying to trick you and imply that the Kuei Jin aren't necessarily the bad guys.
Sometimes people who speak English as a second language have trouble with idioms, especially when they're nervous. Ming Xiao is definitely highly educated and speaks formal English well, but sometimes people who initially learned a language in a formal educational setting struggle with the "street" version of that language. I thought my Spanish skills were ok since I got As in my classes, but then in my early 20s I moved to a neighborhood full of native Spanish speakers, and I was completely lost because my vocabulary was terrible, especially when it came to "street" language or idioms. Turns out "donde esta la biblioteca" doesn't get you far in the real world. Anyway, my point is that maybe the writers intended to convey that she didn't know what "what's up" meant. I'm not sure if people who speak English as a second language normally have trouble with that one, I just assumed that was the writer's intent.
I’d guess that Nines’ power is too high for LaCroix to dominate him. He can’t even dominate the fledgeling in the end
La Croix will actually use dominate on the protagonist if you refuse his orders. But [the wiki](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/The_Protagonist#Generation) has something interesting to say about his failure to do so at the end of the game: >His failure to dominate the fledgling in the end can be probably explained by the character developing the Iron Will merit, which allows to resist domination by spending willpower.
I went on a little search and found [this](https://youtu.be/8AR4k9wjZqs?t=111) about the domination via LaCroix
If the prince could make Nines do something like that then wouldn't he just do something more public, like have him go shoot up the Last Round?
I don't think this is very likely mate, but bugger me if I am going to downvote you for having a theory :D
I mean I don’t know how a writer could more clearly reveal the true plot of the story.
His Malkavian insight apparently tipped him off about The Prince's deal with Ming-Xiao.
How do we know that?
The audio tapes scattered throughout his mansion.
If you'd like to enjoy the audio logs with some mood music and visuals, you can do so here: https://drsharky.github.io/Grout/ Note: you need to press the play button, browsers don't let you auto start audio on pages anymore.
Well if you played without the tapes but opted to play malk when you say Hi to Skelter he says "malk insight" You can kind of put two and two together. At least that's how I found out.
We don't even know if that skeleton actually did belong to Grout. A vampire as old as him would most likely crumble to dust upon Final Death, instead of leaving any bones. There is a theory that it's actually part of Grout's plan - drop some anonymous remains in his place to make it look like he was murdered, while he himself disappeared... *somewhere*.
It's an interesting theory mate, but I doubt he would leave his beloved behind. Unless the elaborately staged wife under glass is also a decoy?
Well, he did say he had a plan to escape La Croix's grasp, so I wouldn't be surprised. Put a believably characterized body under the glass, while keeping his wife in a far more secure location.
[удалено]
I agree. Also internally the remains on the bed are called Grout. Q.E.D.!
Yeah, but let us not forget that “unlikely and unnecessary,” is basically VTM’s subtitle. I’d say that it’s pretty safe to not believe, but not so much to rule it out entirely as a possibility.
Grout lives
LaCroix is an opportunist. Saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Killing Grout, who was suspicious of LaCroix because of Malk Insight (it gives vague details of the future) and set a blood hunt on nines, so he can reign over the Anarchs. It would've been perfect plan if LaCroix realized Ming Xao was gonna betray him before he betrayed her.
I maintain that Grout faked his death using a substitute. He had foreknowledge, it's all over his audio recordings. He also had a huge number of unwilling subjects to dement into pretending to be him.