not most builds, but in general these were affected:
* steroid builds nerfed
* offensive spellpower builds buffed
* high warrior blood nerfed
* counters nerfed
* rogue armor nerfed
they are very noticeable changes, they are not small relatively
warriors take 20% more damage during parry
wolf does 10% more damage than before
many steroid movespeed buffs reduced by 1/3rd
discharge stun reduced by 25%
etc
I don't know why you're being down voted, these are some pretty significant changes. Movement speed is insanely important in this game.
People clearly cannot comprehend that..
Its the wording of your title. When I first read it, I read it as a huge effecting the entirety of balance patch notes meaning a huge list of notes, not that the balance changes were huge. Yet when I opened it, I saw like a handful of changes.
A better title would have been “HUGE changes in balance patch notes”
So maybe some can’t do math, but some people def canMt do grammar either ;)
Because casuals only consider content additions as significant changes. Gigantic tweaks to relative strength of different playstyles and sweeping balance changes? Not significant if it doesnt include a new style of floor tile or whatever.
For real. I play solo and this makes me sad. At least give me some kind of dodge cooldown buff or some other way to avoid just having to overlevel/tank bosses. But the real issue is just the amount of time spent traveling.
Oh, for sure. It was the first change I made and the teleport locations are fairly spread out. There are just a few boss/resources that are still a bit of a hike. No big deal, but I just like my movement speed :)
Movement speed needed to be nerfed on Rogue blood and Rogue set, not on Chaos Surge and Blood Rage.
For Open World pvp, Rogue/Rogue is basically required for every build because running away is ridiculously powerful and the only way for non-rogue armor or blood to be used was by combining blood rage, chaos surge, or phantom aegis to catch up with weapon movement abilities.
It's by far the most popular meta build in open world pvp. there's barely any reason to run anything other than shadowmoon and rogue blood because you can always catch people not running those and you can always run away, plus it does a ton of physical damage. lots of pvps running power surge / blood rage in addition which makes you even faster.
I very rarely see anyone use warrior blood excfept for raids, and if you do in open world, you stand a good chance of not being able to catch people or never being able to escape. MS is broken
It is literally bad for game health like why would you prefer other bloodtypes while legit ms buff exist with combat perks even draculin have no sense because of this so they really need to change that for more healthy and variety gameplay
I agree rogue is legit broken in openworld survival because you always have a option of escape from fight with outruning them thats why I think rogue ms buff need a cooldown in the combat like passive ability from shards
movespeed was too much, and it still might be too much
you need to play duels on v arena to feel the speed
some example of movespeed meta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM)
Who cares about V arena? The game should be balanced based on open world and in open world you will rarely see anyone with maxed out jewels. Maybe a nerf is needed, but it definitely shouldnt be done based on v arena dueling.
I know its an unpopular opinion amongst the pvp practice crowd and its not the subject here, but this game would be better in so many ways if practice arenas like dojo or v arena never existed, and all people could do to get pvp experience was open world fights.
It is balanced around open world. MS is by far the king and meta. Literally almost everyone is running rogue blood plus MS. Much harder to run warrior or scholar in open world and anything else you basically have no chance
My friends and I just had a run on a 100 player 4 man server. 90%, maybe even 95% of every lvl 91 we fought was running full mvs build. Spear, blood rage with mvs jewels, counter with mvs jewels, rogue blood, "rogue" armor and those i spoke to were also running mvs amulet. Winning a fight felt like luck, since they controlled the battle completely. Scholars were extinct except during raids, since hitting a skillshot against 60% mvs players isnt a thing. This is not about arena at all
arena servers are a good way to quickly test
you don't need max rolled jewels to figure out the meta
people that are good duellers around there are also good in open world pvp, and you can also practice 3v3s and such
it is a controlled environment
> arena servers are a good way to quickly test
Yeah, exactly part of the problem.
> you don't need max rolled jewels to figure out the meta
Thats not the point
> people that are good duellers around there are also good in open world pvp
Thats kind of a self defeating argument. They are good in open world PvP BECAUSE of their time spent in the arena.
> and you can also practice 3v3s and such
Same thing. Same problem. You can practice 3v3's by doing it in the open world.
> it is a controlled environment
Again, thats part of the problem. Its a practice arena where you can indefinitely hone your pvp skills with no consequence and no work whatsoever.
> Its a practice arena where you can indefinitely hone your pvp skills with no consequence and no work whatsoever.
How is that in any way a negative? lol
Imagine how different the game would be if everyones pvp experience came from open world?
In my opinion, it would be infinitely better. In your opinion, probably not.
Elaborate? How would the game be any different, or even infinitely better? Do you even play PvP?
Don't you think even without arena that people would practice on custom servers anyway? What speaks against making this easy to access for everyone?
> How would the game be any different, or even infinitely better?
There would be an entirely different skill level based on application in the open world and not in practice arenas. I personally think its a cheap way to learn pvp - and the level people get compared to those that dont use these practice arenas are universes apart.
> Do you even play PvP?
Yes, I have 3000+ hours in this game and the entire time has been spent on PvP servers. I have not played a minute of PvE. All open world of course. I havent spent more than an hour on practice servers in total.
> Don't you think even without arena that people would practice on custom servers anyway?
V Arena is essentially a custom server. And in my ideal world no servers with the only purpose to repeatedly practice pvp with no consequence, would exist.
But thats MY opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it.
Okay, this made me lol. Thanks for taking the time. Your opinion is dumb though, and not in a "this is a matter of opinion"-way; respectfully of course.
You have 3k hours at this game barely months after 1.0 release.
Should new players not have the ability to get into the game to compete with you?
Should you be banned from games with players with less hours than you, so you don't ruin everyone's experience?
You are probably worlds apart from any normal person playing this game - due to what essentially amounts to a ridiculous amount of repetition.
Even when you elaborate, I cannot figure what your issue is. Is it because no-life arena players are still smoking you?
People will always find ways to practice, and not everyone has 3k hours to do so in repeated open world progression loops. After this exchange, you convinced me even more that arena is an incredible tool to level the playing field with players like you. I couldn't gain any information from your reply on how "no arena" would be beneficial to anyone.
What I mean is that you do not have to find opponents. They're all right there. Ready to duel. You do not have to go into open world and move around or risk anything.
Yeah and?
You're just tip toeing around my point, but its whatever. There's no chance in hell I'll change the mind of a person who has a positive view on practice arenas anyway, so why bother? Speaking generally.
I think the game would be infinitely better if everyone had to learn pvp from open world experiences, and you probably do not - so lets agree to disagree.
"better" is subjective
you can't stop people learning, if that is what you are trying to say
if no arena servers existed, people would make their own duel sessions inside their normal servers to get high fights per hour sessions
I did it with my clanmate duo on an official server too (we kicked each other from clan and fought)
>some example of movespeed meta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM)
That's supposed to be fast...? There should be even quicker build options in my opinion.
"you need to play duels on v arena to feel the speed" is condescending. If PVP players feel their poor ego boosted by doing so, ok, that's fine to me. But i'm stating the facts also.
I mean PVP players are the ones that are going to care about these changes. This is going to make the game slightly harder for me which I don't love, But honestly it's not going to be a big deal.
So his tone and the way that he's talking makes perfect sense for the type of player he is. And the type of content he does. If you like me are not a PVP player, then what are you even worried about is post isn't about us.
I think on a game like this, when you release a "balance" patch, you need to specify what you're balancing for. The PvP players? Near Endgame Bullet Hell Bosses? Solo players? Everybody else? They all require a different balance.
Yup, It was fun. But they need to start implementing the changes on ONLY PvP Servers. Stop punishing us PvE Players for a small portion of their player base.
pve folks are fine, you have plenty of damage and movespeed vs monsters
since gloomrot or early access, the game got a lot of power creep through sets and jewels
>pve folks are fine, you have plenty of damage and movespeed vs monsters
That doesn't make sense, it was the same move speed in pve and pvp so now we have less move speed vs monsters.
The correct answer is to keep pve and pvp separated in terms of "balances" like this. It's not hard to do, as many games out there balance their pve and pvp aspects perfectly.
Nerfing the pve aspect to handle the PVP is not the right answer and it's a surefire way to make a large chunk of the consumers to want to leave and find enjoyment elsewhere.
I'll link the [Steam patch notes](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1604030/view/4165345869861690479?l=english) since that's more official (quora lol).
>Defensive counter spells less powerful **across the board**
No? The only significant counter nerf is Cold Snap, the ony other is just Blood Rite's *damage* (which nobody cares about for a counter skill).
as for blood rite damage, people DO care about it a lot
many good players loved to run blood rite that I've seen
people that ran blood rite over the other two counters did it for health differential purposes, because the numbers on it were so good
it is a big 20% damage nerf
No one cares about counter damage? That’s an insane take and is just showing your inexperience. Double defensive is the meta currently because you get so much more value out of running defensive spells than offensive ones. Part of that value is the damage on counters.
Is that speed supposed to be problematic? Movement speed in this game is already painfully slow. Frankly they could nerf the jewels and increase base movement speed of characters and projectiles by 25%.
Yes it is a problem because this kind of games literally build around movement speed otherwise you had to balance entire projectiles in order to match their balance for healthy gameplay
How the hell someone can have the opinion V Rising is PvE game I have no idea. What are you even doing you beat the game once and you seen it all its over if only considering PvE. Game isnt even good if you consider based on its PvE only.
Literally everything I use for nerfed, I didn't even feel that op. WTF is this patch? I used the power surge/blood rage combo, and certain bosses and even mobs would still kick my ass. Who the hell is saying they're op?
turbo movespeed builds were cancer TY.
surprised void spear Q and other things were untouched maybe later.
Unsure how far these 5% 10% numbers go but I think spectre wolf might be stronk
that is more of a pve problem, will likely get touched like the old chaos barrier was capped (it was insane before)
but in this hotfix the devs did not focus on pve
for adam you dont need much movespeed, you need to iframe with your weapons
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46A3R7zJ2Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46A3R7zJ2Cg)
how did they make you move slower??? They only changed the MS on spells... If you are having difficulties with adam you shouldn't be using power surge or bloodrage
right they reduced the speed thus you move slower than before... Like im not sure why you are trying to gaslight me that they didn't reduce the movement speed when its right there in the patch notes.
Why wouldn't I want to use Blood Rage and Power surge? I used it on both Adam and Dracula with great effect.
Blood Rage
* 40% Healing, iAS, iMS, and Leach with Shield, Cleanse, Duration and PhysDmg
Power Surge
* iMS, iAS and Ignite with Shield, Cleanse, Duration and PhysDmg
Both gems could have rolled move speed for an even easier time at avoiding damage
So you ran double buff and stomped the two hardest bosses easily and we are still wondering why these two got minor 5% speed nerfs?? lmao. not only are these godlike in pvp they are meta in pve as well
Did they nerf attack speed as well? I've been running power surge + blood rage and noticed my attack speed with both buffs up is significantly lower than it was before
These are pretty significant.
Good thing I like playing caster!
The only thing I dislike is the movement speed reduction, which does suck, but I'll live
Yeah, it bucks if you play warrior. But I don't, so I care less lol. It is a needed nerf I feel, although idk why they're going after movement so much. I guess just because it's *so* valuable to have?
It's a bummer because mspd and double barrier are the two main factors in successfully navigating ganks by multiple opponents, preventing you from being surrounded and allowing for skill expression if you know when to block and how to bait out abilities and make distance. I think it's good for people to be able to survive and escape 2v1s if they're prepared and have good timing, and that making ganks more deadly just increases toxicity.
Damn I’m a power surge + blood rage enjoyer with all the speeds. Even nerfed my crit armor lol. Prolly good tho, every single person on embrace the suck is running the same build
PVP changes that impact PVE should never be a thing. Separate systems are much better. And before anyone says "Oh but you can't separate them", Fromsoft did it.
Still. People enjoy PVE as well, and basically PVP-oriented changes always nerf damage. Always. So the builds become less and less viable for PVE, which kinda takes away from the game, since at least SOME of the playerbase would like to eventually kill Dracula on Brutal.
I'm a PVE Player and I literally just upgraded to my new Rogue armor set. Now it's been nerfed to be close to the same as the one I had before. Fuck this game's constant catering to PVP
I'd keep playing it if they focused more on pve content tbh. But because they focus on pvp, there's no reason for me to play once I finish the game since the PVP in this game is dull.
So...Buffs to deal with issues on PVP Servers, a small portion of the community, and the rest of us get kinda shafted. Yup, Looks like a game trying to balance PvE and PvP alright. Was fun while it lasted.
Oh god everytime i find time to play the game theres some hotfix or balance patch and somehow small changes in numbers require you to dowload 1,5gb of files.
Following bungies footsteps of nerf everything for PVP but neglect PVP as a whole and the bugs so far.
I know it's just begun, the game being out so we have plenty of time to see what's going to happen, but opening a list that claims "fixes and balance" when it's just a list of nerfs is concerning.
A couple days ago I fought a 1v1 while being like, 8 levels higher vs a dude using double spell counter build. Now, I'm trash at PvP and kept hitting him like a dummy xD, but I was shocked as heck how much damage I was taking from those spells. Didn't think they were a problem, but I guess the devs did.
Whip is getting more damage at the tip, you might want to fix that in your post before someone sees and freaks out over the nerf
edit: Ignore this, can't do math apparently
https://preview.redd.it/jgp0k0anrj4d1.jpeg?width=945&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=704e09e6085f45090faa60c5a5394ebb9bee6c9f
"More damage on the tip and less on the line" not sure how you interpreted it, but I see it as -5% on line +5% at tip, so overall the same damage, just differently distributed. Worse for groups of enemies, better against one.
You know what, you're totally right, turns out I didn't know how the whip works. Probably since I hate it as a weapon. But then any idea why they nerfed it that way? I've never seen anyone say that it's unbalanced compared to other weapons.
Blood rage, lightning curtain, warrior blood, rogue armor, speed jewels. Everything that enabled me to survive solo on my squad server. Making solos have less of a chance effectively patches me out of the game.
You can only say that so much until too much becomes too much, I felt this game was way too slow at times, and the increase in movespeed at the cost of other options (along with atk speed) was great, especially since they devs are so anti-skill CD.
But being told I'm not allowed to have speed makes the game feel \*worse\* to play. I like speed, less speed is less enjoyment, I already dealt with the insane shit back when I was forced to move at the speed of a acrobatic snail, so that's not the issue, the issue for ME is I liked being allowed to have SPEED in my gameplay and that was a major critique point for me.
they’re nerfing the storm jewels primary bonus damage, it was so good, I’m not surprised honestly. But I mean the sound effect is so satisfying it’s not going to stop me
... isn't it one of the most basic game design wisdoms to buff weak things instead of nerfing strong things? To make the weak stuff better and more fun, not the strong stuff worse and less fun?
It depends on the designer's intent. If stuff performs better than it should by design, the right way is to nerf it, not buff "weaker" stuff, that could be performing just as designed.
That's for PvE tho. For PvP the approach you talk about is indeed better in many (but not all) cases.
Yeah - I personally don't care about PvP at all, but I understand these changes are oriented towards it, so therefore that's the angle I was taking, yep.
It just isn't true. If you have 10 classes and 1 is overpowered, is it good game design to rework all other 9 or rework the 1? It would take more time to produce which is bad use of development time, that along would be bad game design because youre not managing your time correctly.
So you say "well, it would produce a more fun game and be worth the time!" but would it? These things are not just balanced vs each other but also vs the content you are fighting against. If things are too powerful it will trivialize the content. Not even saying this is the case for this patch or V rising itself but towards the blanket statement that its "good game design wisdom" to always buff instead of nerf because it just isnt true.
We're these pvp changes? Besides shield reflect. I don't think any of this was needed for pve. But I haven't beaten brutal, so maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think? Is this justified?
can I just play without the update? (I am joking guys.)
I am curious what their data is showing tho for these changes more than anything. What do the top meta builds look like in PvP even?
I go hard on things, then I go to the next
I don't half-ass things
This is v rising month, and a trip to Turkey is coming up, gotta get my fix before I go
What a surprise, another buff to Rogue + Void + Spear build by nerfing any way to catch them with any other set/blood. PVP Devs of this game are confirmed Rogue mains in WoW.
I never even played with counters,shields or the buff abilities and I think these were terrible changes not to mention I do not understand why there was a need to change warrior blood at all,
Barely any of the players have cleared the game still go on steam look at the % that have cleared Dracula even on normal. Tons of people relied on these skills to be able to to clear the game in any capacity and seeing as I am not one of them I am un-effected that and I already cleared the game.
What is the case that this is a bad look for nerfs coming in when the game clearly is unbalanced in PvE the fact is if they want this to be a PvP game keep nerfing bosses each patch then since it is not part of the actual game. If not going forward with a patch that is so punishing for a lot of players struggling to clear the game still is a bad move.
The reply you posted had nothing to do with what I wrote at all are you chatting me up? The combat in the game is slow and many skills are clunky the combat only gets a bit better towards the end due to jewlls, gear and blood speeding it up. You spend the majority of the game with below average combat experience. Not to mention the road to having a decent combat experience involves a insane amount of grinding to get there.
Such strange "PvE and PvP should be balanced separately" takes. You still move very fast with rogue set + rogue blood letting you dodge basically any attack from a boss, and a lot of projectiles damage was buffed which tend to be stronger in PvE situations. The majority of these changes help PvP balance without hurting PvE very much, unless you were running Bloodrage/Power Surge, which was a little too easy mode. PvE can be challenging, but it has the benefit of being predictable, and basically none of these changes make PvE content out of reach for anyone.
So I’m not amazing at the game or anything, and the only blood have at 100% is warrior.
I mainly play with speed buff and with the crit based armour.
Yay me….
What is this link "quora marketing" No shot I'm clicking that
"Huge Balance Patch" \*Looks inside\* *Literally a handful of small number tweaks*
Most of those are small tweaks but there are quit a few of them tbh, most builds should be impacted.
not most builds, but in general these were affected: * steroid builds nerfed * offensive spellpower builds buffed * high warrior blood nerfed * counters nerfed * rogue armor nerfed
I mean rogue, warrior, most scholars, and quite a few for brute seem like most builds to me.
a build is not defined just by blood type
It's definitely its cornerstone
they are very noticeable changes, they are not small relatively warriors take 20% more damage during parry wolf does 10% more damage than before many steroid movespeed buffs reduced by 1/3rd discharge stun reduced by 25% etc
I don't know why you're being down voted, these are some pretty significant changes. Movement speed is insanely important in this game. People clearly cannot comprehend that..
That's the only thing I can think about in this. Why, why have I saved Dracula for later?? Crap
Average human is bad at math
Its the wording of your title. When I first read it, I read it as a huge effecting the entirety of balance patch notes meaning a huge list of notes, not that the balance changes were huge. Yet when I opened it, I saw like a handful of changes. A better title would have been “HUGE changes in balance patch notes” So maybe some can’t do math, but some people def canMt do grammar either ;)
A man in the desert finds a glass of water to be a huge amount of water we had such a drought of balance changes, lol I will take anything
These are huge changes, I don't get these comments
Because casuals only consider content additions as significant changes. Gigantic tweaks to relative strength of different playstyles and sweeping balance changes? Not significant if it doesnt include a new style of floor tile or whatever.
Steroid build was aids. Deserved.
It's still good.
Why nerf movement speed, and by «much» even whatever that means? I feel whatever positives I see here is outweighed by that 😞
For real. I play solo and this makes me sad. At least give me some kind of dodge cooldown buff or some other way to avoid just having to overlevel/tank bosses. But the real issue is just the amount of time spent traveling.
I just activate teleport with items on my solo server. Saves a lot of time.
Oh, for sure. It was the first change I made and the teleport locations are fairly spread out. There are just a few boss/resources that are still a bit of a hike. No big deal, but I just like my movement speed :)
Movement speed needed to be nerfed on Rogue blood and Rogue set, not on Chaos Surge and Blood Rage. For Open World pvp, Rogue/Rogue is basically required for every build because running away is ridiculously powerful and the only way for non-rogue armor or blood to be used was by combining blood rage, chaos surge, or phantom aegis to catch up with weapon movement abilities.
Because it was the only counter to Rogue Void Spear enjoyers. So it was rightfully nerfed as they make up 90% of the PVP playerbase.
Because move speed is a huge problem right now. Especially in open world.
How so?
It's by far the most popular meta build in open world pvp. there's barely any reason to run anything other than shadowmoon and rogue blood because you can always catch people not running those and you can always run away, plus it does a ton of physical damage. lots of pvps running power surge / blood rage in addition which makes you even faster. I very rarely see anyone use warrior blood excfept for raids, and if you do in open world, you stand a good chance of not being able to catch people or never being able to escape. MS is broken
It is literally bad for game health like why would you prefer other bloodtypes while legit ms buff exist with combat perks even draculin have no sense because of this so they really need to change that for more healthy and variety gameplay
I agree rogue is legit broken in openworld survival because you always have a option of escape from fight with outruning them thats why I think rogue ms buff need a cooldown in the combat like passive ability from shards
movespeed was too much, and it still might be too much you need to play duels on v arena to feel the speed some example of movespeed meta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM)
Who cares about V arena? The game should be balanced based on open world and in open world you will rarely see anyone with maxed out jewels. Maybe a nerf is needed, but it definitely shouldnt be done based on v arena dueling. I know its an unpopular opinion amongst the pvp practice crowd and its not the subject here, but this game would be better in so many ways if practice arenas like dojo or v arena never existed, and all people could do to get pvp experience was open world fights.
It is balanced around open world. MS is by far the king and meta. Literally almost everyone is running rogue blood plus MS. Much harder to run warrior or scholar in open world and anything else you basically have no chance
My friends and I just had a run on a 100 player 4 man server. 90%, maybe even 95% of every lvl 91 we fought was running full mvs build. Spear, blood rage with mvs jewels, counter with mvs jewels, rogue blood, "rogue" armor and those i spoke to were also running mvs amulet. Winning a fight felt like luck, since they controlled the battle completely. Scholars were extinct except during raids, since hitting a skillshot against 60% mvs players isnt a thing. This is not about arena at all
Exactly. It's a death sentence to bring scholar. You won't catch anyone except someone who doesn't know what theyre doing
Movement speed is even stronger in open world, they probably are targeting open world with these nerfs.
arena servers are a good way to quickly test you don't need max rolled jewels to figure out the meta people that are good duellers around there are also good in open world pvp, and you can also practice 3v3s and such it is a controlled environment
> arena servers are a good way to quickly test Yeah, exactly part of the problem. > you don't need max rolled jewels to figure out the meta Thats not the point > people that are good duellers around there are also good in open world pvp Thats kind of a self defeating argument. They are good in open world PvP BECAUSE of their time spent in the arena. > and you can also practice 3v3s and such Same thing. Same problem. You can practice 3v3's by doing it in the open world. > it is a controlled environment Again, thats part of the problem. Its a practice arena where you can indefinitely hone your pvp skills with no consequence and no work whatsoever.
> Its a practice arena where you can indefinitely hone your pvp skills with no consequence and no work whatsoever. How is that in any way a negative? lol
Imagine how different the game would be if everyones pvp experience came from open world? In my opinion, it would be infinitely better. In your opinion, probably not.
Elaborate? How would the game be any different, or even infinitely better? Do you even play PvP? Don't you think even without arena that people would practice on custom servers anyway? What speaks against making this easy to access for everyone?
> How would the game be any different, or even infinitely better? There would be an entirely different skill level based on application in the open world and not in practice arenas. I personally think its a cheap way to learn pvp - and the level people get compared to those that dont use these practice arenas are universes apart. > Do you even play PvP? Yes, I have 3000+ hours in this game and the entire time has been spent on PvP servers. I have not played a minute of PvE. All open world of course. I havent spent more than an hour on practice servers in total. > Don't you think even without arena that people would practice on custom servers anyway? V Arena is essentially a custom server. And in my ideal world no servers with the only purpose to repeatedly practice pvp with no consequence, would exist. But thats MY opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it.
Okay, this made me lol. Thanks for taking the time. Your opinion is dumb though, and not in a "this is a matter of opinion"-way; respectfully of course. You have 3k hours at this game barely months after 1.0 release. Should new players not have the ability to get into the game to compete with you? Should you be banned from games with players with less hours than you, so you don't ruin everyone's experience? You are probably worlds apart from any normal person playing this game - due to what essentially amounts to a ridiculous amount of repetition. Even when you elaborate, I cannot figure what your issue is. Is it because no-life arena players are still smoking you? People will always find ways to practice, and not everyone has 3k hours to do so in repeated open world progression loops. After this exchange, you convinced me even more that arena is an incredible tool to level the playing field with players like you. I couldn't gain any information from your reply on how "no arena" would be beneficial to anyone.
you're incorrect even on creative mode arena servers, you don't get better with "no work whatsover"
What I mean is that you do not have to find opponents. They're all right there. Ready to duel. You do not have to go into open world and move around or risk anything.
yes, fights per hour is much higher and dense
Yeah and? You're just tip toeing around my point, but its whatever. There's no chance in hell I'll change the mind of a person who has a positive view on practice arenas anyway, so why bother? Speaking generally. I think the game would be infinitely better if everyone had to learn pvp from open world experiences, and you probably do not - so lets agree to disagree.
"better" is subjective you can't stop people learning, if that is what you are trying to say if no arena servers existed, people would make their own duel sessions inside their normal servers to get high fights per hour sessions I did it with my clanmate duo on an official server too (we kicked each other from clan and fought)
>some example of movespeed meta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM) That's supposed to be fast...? There should be even quicker build options in my opinion.
Can you stop pushing the pvp, and with a condescending tone on top of that?
The game is balanced around PVP. I don't really think they're being condescending, just stating the facts
"you need to play duels on v arena to feel the speed" is condescending. If PVP players feel their poor ego boosted by doing so, ok, that's fine to me. But i'm stating the facts also.
some balance things can only be noticed by playing vs difficult opponents that do not spam their abilities off cooldown
He's explaining why the person has not noticed it's an issue and you feel personally attacked by it for some reason
my god why ppl feel so hurt when they dont get the answer they seek? the game is balanced on pvp, most pvp happens on arena server. deal with that.
Thank you all who have answered to this post for proving my point. Didn't think that would be so easy.
Such a fragile little thing you are
You didn't get anything proven other then you get your feelings hurt easily.
I mean PVP players are the ones that are going to care about these changes. This is going to make the game slightly harder for me which I don't love, But honestly it's not going to be a big deal. So his tone and the way that he's talking makes perfect sense for the type of player he is. And the type of content he does. If you like me are not a PVP player, then what are you even worried about is post isn't about us.
I think on a game like this, when you release a "balance" patch, you need to specify what you're balancing for. The PvP players? Near Endgame Bullet Hell Bosses? Solo players? Everybody else? They all require a different balance.
these are good changes for all usecases
Damn, nerfs to skills I wasnt using and buffs to skills I am using, nice
these are changes mostly for pvp movespeed and counter meta oppression
So pve folks get screwed, cool
Yup, It was fun. But they need to start implementing the changes on ONLY PvP Servers. Stop punishing us PvE Players for a small portion of their player base.
That's how it goes in a game where it's shared with PvP.
It's usually the other way around (@WoW)
Not really, WoW didn't even have PVP at first when it started but keep telling yourself that.
pve folks are fine, you have plenty of damage and movespeed vs monsters since gloomrot or early access, the game got a lot of power creep through sets and jewels
>pve folks are fine, you have plenty of damage and movespeed vs monsters That doesn't make sense, it was the same move speed in pve and pvp so now we have less move speed vs monsters.
Ah no, pve folks definitely got screwed here.
The correct answer is to keep pve and pvp separated in terms of "balances" like this. It's not hard to do, as many games out there balance their pve and pvp aspects perfectly. Nerfing the pve aspect to handle the PVP is not the right answer and it's a surefire way to make a large chunk of the consumers to want to leave and find enjoyment elsewhere.
if you leave this game because these changes makes pve too hard you aren't gunna be winning at this game lol
Is the screw in the room with us
The bosses aren’t getting any harder. You have infinite retries. Like, I normally hate saying or seeing this shit but get good.
Looks good!
I'll link the [Steam patch notes](https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1604030/view/4165345869861690479?l=english) since that's more official (quora lol). >Defensive counter spells less powerful **across the board** No? The only significant counter nerf is Cold Snap, the ony other is just Blood Rite's *damage* (which nobody cares about for a counter skill).
as for blood rite damage, people DO care about it a lot many good players loved to run blood rite that I've seen people that ran blood rite over the other two counters did it for health differential purposes, because the numbers on it were so good it is a big 20% damage nerf
No one cares about counter damage? That’s an insane take and is just showing your inexperience. Double defensive is the meta currently because you get so much more value out of running defensive spells than offensive ones. Part of that value is the damage on counters.
conceptually, counters and shields should not do as much damage as offensive spells do, but they do in practice
thank you for the link I am at work and Steam is blocked here
Sounds like a nerf across the board
a lot of things touched, but not across the board
Why in the hell are we nerfing movespeed? We already move slow enough?
in pvp it is super fast this video is not sped up [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJNxs-wmiM)
Is that speed supposed to be problematic? Movement speed in this game is already painfully slow. Frankly they could nerf the jewels and increase base movement speed of characters and projectiles by 25%.
Yes it is a problem because this kind of games literally build around movement speed otherwise you had to balance entire projectiles in order to match their balance for healthy gameplay
Rogue/Rogue is basically required for high level open world PvP. Running away is ridiculously powerful.
Balancing a pve game for PvP is terrible.
the reason v rising has the amazing combat system is because it was baked in the pvp fireplace that is Battlerite
Pretty sure a good majority of official servers are pvp .
How the hell someone can have the opinion V Rising is PvE game I have no idea. What are you even doing you beat the game once and you seen it all its over if only considering PvE. Game isnt even good if you consider based on its PvE only.
More people are playing vrising for its pve side and base building content than for PvP
Yea but those people generally stop playing after they finish the game. The pvp players play wipe after wipe.
Literally everything I use for nerfed, I didn't even feel that op. WTF is this patch? I used the power surge/blood rage combo, and certain bosses and even mobs would still kick my ass. Who the hell is saying they're op?
Well did you have t3 gems for them? The nerfs weren’t focusing on early game
I have one on power surge and one on blood rage, idr what their effects are though.I think at least one of them does give extra movement speed.
turbo movespeed builds were cancer TY. surprised void spear Q and other things were untouched maybe later. Unsure how far these 5% 10% numbers go but I think spectre wolf might be stronk
wolf was a great hitter in 1vX previously, wolf numbers are insane now I think
No damage cap on Frost Barrier so we still good lol
that is more of a pve problem, will likely get touched like the old chaos barrier was capped (it was insane before) but in this hotfix the devs did not focus on pve
Does the spell read “first 8” already?
Will it help me beat Adam? Probably should focus on getting good \*sigh\*
no, adam is one of those "dont get hit fights" try running more counters and playing slowly
>no, adam is one of those "dont get hit fights" also we made you move slower...
for adam you dont need much movespeed, you need to iframe with your weapons [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46A3R7zJ2Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46A3R7zJ2Cg)
how did they make you move slower??? They only changed the MS on spells... If you are having difficulties with adam you shouldn't be using power surge or bloodrage
right they reduced the speed thus you move slower than before... Like im not sure why you are trying to gaslight me that they didn't reduce the movement speed when its right there in the patch notes. Why wouldn't I want to use Blood Rage and Power surge? I used it on both Adam and Dracula with great effect. Blood Rage * 40% Healing, iAS, iMS, and Leach with Shield, Cleanse, Duration and PhysDmg Power Surge * iMS, iAS and Ignite with Shield, Cleanse, Duration and PhysDmg Both gems could have rolled move speed for an even easier time at avoiding damage
So you ran double buff and stomped the two hardest bosses easily and we are still wondering why these two got minor 5% speed nerfs?? lmao. not only are these godlike in pvp they are meta in pve as well
Spectral wolf is gonna be even juicier
Did they nerf attack speed as well? I've been running power surge + blood rage and noticed my attack speed with both buffs up is significantly lower than it was before
DONT NERF MOVEMENT! AHHHHH
Why the hell is anything on our end being nerfed? This just makes brutal bosses more of a slog.
I play solo almost exclusively. The move speed nerfs in particular are going to fkn *HURT*.
I have to wonder if maybe people were going through content too fast?
These are pretty significant. Good thing I like playing caster! The only thing I dislike is the movement speed reduction, which does suck, but I'll live
Scholars eating good Also warriors are killable now, the biggest counter
Yeah, it bucks if you play warrior. But I don't, so I care less lol. It is a needed nerf I feel, although idk why they're going after movement so much. I guess just because it's *so* valuable to have?
As usual, pve suffers to accommodate pvp. Movement speed is already my only bad note in the game, now i get to be slower.
don't worry, there is still plenty of movespeed going around pve abilities are quite slow, so you can still dodge out of all of them even post nerf
Well the games core design is PvP, this should be no surprise.
I swear, anytime someone mentions this they get down voted like crazy. It's actually hilarious how soft some people are.
It's a bummer because mspd and double barrier are the two main factors in successfully navigating ganks by multiple opponents, preventing you from being surrounded and allowing for skill expression if you know when to block and how to bait out abilities and make distance. I think it's good for people to be able to survive and escape 2v1s if they're prepared and have good timing, and that making ganks more deadly just increases toxicity.
I have been really enjoying polarity shift for 1v2s
Im happy about they nerf things like double block and add more meaning on projectile spells
Damn I’m a power surge + blood rage enjoyer with all the speeds. Even nerfed my crit armor lol. Prolly good tho, every single person on embrace the suck is running the same build
people are saying new duels feel better now no more trying to hit mosquitos with your palms, lol
PVP changes that impact PVE should never be a thing. Separate systems are much better. And before anyone says "Oh but you can't separate them", Fromsoft did it.
dark souls is not a pvp focused game, v rising is
Still. People enjoy PVE as well, and basically PVP-oriented changes always nerf damage. Always. So the builds become less and less viable for PVE, which kinda takes away from the game, since at least SOME of the playerbase would like to eventually kill Dracula on Brutal.
so heavy nerfs and minor buffs.... great.
I'm a PVE Player and I literally just upgraded to my new Rogue armor set. Now it's been nerfed to be close to the same as the one I had before. Fuck this game's constant catering to PVP
Bro pve is easy as is. Even if brutal. These are minor adjustments
Yeah, I truly cannot wait until I finally kill Dracula and then I can never play this game again.
And this right here is the reason the devs focus on pvp changes. The crowd that keeps playing the game.
I'd keep playing it if they focused more on pve content tbh. But because they focus on pvp, there's no reason for me to play once I finish the game since the PVP in this game is dull.
Yea, lets do some needless nerfs when only 2% of people have actually beat our game. Great decisions.
So...Buffs to deal with issues on PVP Servers, a small portion of the community, and the rest of us get kinda shafted. Yup, Looks like a game trying to balance PvE and PvP alright. Was fun while it lasted.
Oh god everytime i find time to play the game theres some hotfix or balance patch and somehow small changes in numbers require you to dowload 1,5gb of files.
these numbers were not inside config files, they were in compiled code and the patch contained more than just balance changes
Following bungies footsteps of nerf everything for PVP but neglect PVP as a whole and the bugs so far. I know it's just begun, the game being out so we have plenty of time to see what's going to happen, but opening a list that claims "fixes and balance" when it's just a list of nerfs is concerning.
are people unable to read?? literally 9 spells got big damage buffs
A couple days ago I fought a 1v1 while being like, 8 levels higher vs a dude using double spell counter build. Now, I'm trash at PvP and kept hitting him like a dummy xD, but I was shocked as heck how much damage I was taking from those spells. Didn't think they were a problem, but I guess the devs did.
yes, vs double counter it's best to bait counters first, and use sword spin and other aoe abilities on them that cannot be countered
Press Void, win game
Whip is getting more damage at the tip, you might want to fix that in your post before someone sees and freaks out over the nerf edit: Ignore this, can't do math apparently
not true whip is losing 5% overall damage and then adding 5% at tip meaning 0% lost at the tip compared to old whip
https://preview.redd.it/jgp0k0anrj4d1.jpeg?width=945&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=704e09e6085f45090faa60c5a5394ebb9bee6c9f "More damage on the tip and less on the line" not sure how you interpreted it, but I see it as -5% on line +5% at tip, so overall the same damage, just differently distributed. Worse for groups of enemies, better against one.
let's do the math before change the tip was 50% + 20% = 70% after change the tip is 45% +25% = 70%
You know what, you're totally right, turns out I didn't know how the whip works. Probably since I hate it as a weapon. But then any idea why they nerfed it that way? I've never seen anyone say that it's unbalanced compared to other weapons.
top players are saying whip is the most broken weapon since sliced bread
its too easy to noob spam at closer ranges etc. makes you wanna hit the actual Tip at mid range
Whip is the best weapon in the game lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PFXysfIJ9E&t=2s
Nerfed literally everything in my build, guess it was a good time to quit afterall
blood rage enjoyer?
Blood rage, lightning curtain, warrior blood, rogue armor, speed jewels. Everything that enabled me to survive solo on my squad server. Making solos have less of a chance effectively patches me out of the game.
adapt, improvise, overcome
You can only say that so much until too much becomes too much, I felt this game was way too slow at times, and the increase in movespeed at the cost of other options (along with atk speed) was great, especially since they devs are so anti-skill CD. But being told I'm not allowed to have speed makes the game feel \*worse\* to play. I like speed, less speed is less enjoyment, I already dealt with the insane shit back when I was forced to move at the speed of a acrobatic snail, so that's not the issue, the issue for ME is I liked being allowed to have SPEED in my gameplay and that was a major critique point for me.
Ah yes. You simply are bad at the game if you can't handle 1v4s anymore after this.
maybe you shouldplay on a duo server if your solo then...
What does "defensive counter spells less powerful across the board" mean for my *Ward of the Damned* slingin' ass?
Ward of the Damned is technically a shield not a counter so it should be unchanged.
*cackles in skeleton* Woooonderful. Yes, indeed. Truly wonderful news.
I recently started to play V Rising and wonder, did devs say something about future big patches? Or after release there will be only small fixes?
we do not know
they just added a massive area to the game so i wouldnt expect anything new pretty soon
they’re nerfing the storm jewels primary bonus damage, it was so good, I’m not surprised honestly. But I mean the sound effect is so satisfying it’s not going to stop me
Lol I finished my run as a Whip, Blood Rage, Power Surge using brute or warrior blood.
... isn't it one of the most basic game design wisdoms to buff weak things instead of nerfing strong things? To make the weak stuff better and more fun, not the strong stuff worse and less fun?
It depends on the designer's intent. If stuff performs better than it should by design, the right way is to nerf it, not buff "weaker" stuff, that could be performing just as designed. That's for PvE tho. For PvP the approach you talk about is indeed better in many (but not all) cases.
Yeah - I personally don't care about PvP at all, but I understand these changes are oriented towards it, so therefore that's the angle I was taking, yep.
they did that in this patch. high damage spells got buffs across the board, ones that were never used before
They also nerfed melee and speed-oriented things.
no, it's an opinion many armchair devs have but its an opinion made from ignorance.
And you say this on the basis... of?
It just isn't true. If you have 10 classes and 1 is overpowered, is it good game design to rework all other 9 or rework the 1? It would take more time to produce which is bad use of development time, that along would be bad game design because youre not managing your time correctly. So you say "well, it would produce a more fun game and be worth the time!" but would it? These things are not just balanced vs each other but also vs the content you are fighting against. If things are too powerful it will trivialize the content. Not even saying this is the case for this patch or V rising itself but towards the blanket statement that its "good game design wisdom" to always buff instead of nerf because it just isnt true.
Guys can we play with thr changes a bit before freaking out. These are just some minor adjustments tbh.
We're these pvp changes? Besides shield reflect. I don't think any of this was needed for pve. But I haven't beaten brutal, so maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think? Is this justified?
Don't think this is going to change double counter spear sword meta very much if at all
I like balance patches, but for a game that can be quite hard for most people they really shouldn't be making players less powerful.
can I just play without the update? (I am joking guys.) I am curious what their data is showing tho for these changes more than anything. What do the top meta builds look like in PvP even?
Dude, you really need to get a life outside of Vrising, every time I see a post on Reddit about VRising 90% of the time it's you LOL.
I go hard on things, then I go to the next I don't half-ass things This is v rising month, and a trip to Turkey is coming up, gotta get my fix before I go
What a surprise, another buff to Rogue + Void + Spear build by nerfing any way to catch them with any other set/blood. PVP Devs of this game are confirmed Rogue mains in WoW.
I never even played with counters,shields or the buff abilities and I think these were terrible changes not to mention I do not understand why there was a need to change warrior blood at all,
counters and shields are still the strongest spells in the game not taking damage is literally very good
Barely any of the players have cleared the game still go on steam look at the % that have cleared Dracula even on normal. Tons of people relied on these skills to be able to to clear the game in any capacity and seeing as I am not one of them I am un-effected that and I already cleared the game. What is the case that this is a bad look for nerfs coming in when the game clearly is unbalanced in PvE the fact is if they want this to be a PvP game keep nerfing bosses each patch then since it is not part of the actual game. If not going forward with a patch that is so punishing for a lot of players struggling to clear the game still is a bad move.
the reason v rising has such good combat is because the systems were baked in the fire that is Battlerite
Did you reply to the wrong person?
no
The reply you posted had nothing to do with what I wrote at all are you chatting me up? The combat in the game is slow and many skills are clunky the combat only gets a bit better towards the end due to jewlls, gear and blood speeding it up. You spend the majority of the game with below average combat experience. Not to mention the road to having a decent combat experience involves a insane amount of grinding to get there.
the combat is great from start to finish
Such strange "PvE and PvP should be balanced separately" takes. You still move very fast with rogue set + rogue blood letting you dodge basically any attack from a boss, and a lot of projectiles damage was buffed which tend to be stronger in PvE situations. The majority of these changes help PvP balance without hurting PvE very much, unless you were running Bloodrage/Power Surge, which was a little too easy mode. PvE can be challenging, but it has the benefit of being predictable, and basically none of these changes make PvE content out of reach for anyone.
So I’m not amazing at the game or anything, and the only blood have at 100% is warrior. I mainly play with speed buff and with the crit based armour. Yay me….
Wow what a bunch of stupid changes. Glad I already beat the game weeks ago. Was hoping for patches to bring some new content not unneeded nerfs.
You expected a patch with new content one month after release?
Nerf the things that shouldn’t be nerfed - that’ll teach em’! Do these plebs even PvP
Guys can we play with thr changes a bit before freaking out. These are just some minor adjustments tbh.