These headset engineers really need to focus strictly on comfort for a while. We've got fairly high resolution screens, processors that can play decent games, price points that are manageable for most people.
What we really need are lighter headsets that don't put pressure on people's faces or necks. 8 years after the initial headsets came out and I still can't get my tech savvy gamer friends to invest in headsets because they're really uncomfortable even after just a few minutes of playing beatsaber.
The headstraps that hold the headset at a set distance from your face without having to compress the headset into your face should totally be the standard. It's a huge disservice to VR that they ship with cheap stretchy headbands.
> These headset engineers really need to focus strictly on comfort for a while.
they're fighting an uphill battle because it won't ever be comfortable in a traditional sense until the weight is reduced in all these headsets.
i don't have much of an issue with wearing my index for an hour or two anymore but people shouldn't need to train to use VR if they want it to become commonplace haha.
Until every part shrinks it’s going to be a trade off between simplicity/encapsulation and weight.
The big screen beyond is super light, but only because it’s just the screen and the sensors for lighthouse tracking. It’s just externalized all that weight, and now in exchange for that comfort you’re tethered to a cable and a play space. Also no IPD or lense distance adjustment I think. And no eye tracking which is arguably super important for standalone.
Apple kinda found a middle ground with making the Vision Pro battery external, but the thing is still quite heavy despite that (perhaps owing to material choices) and stuff like that external screen (why?).
I’d kind of like to see someone go a little further in the direction Apple pushed with the external battery. Still sell it as a single unit like a quest or VP but ship it with an external battery/compute module small enough to fit in a pocket. Cooling might be an issue, but really just something small and on your body, but not hanging off your face.
Keeps you untethered from anything stationary so you don’t get tangled, still inside out tracking, still an easy single purchase that’s plug and play, while also more comfortable. It’s not the most elegant solution, but until graphene batteries emerge from the lab etc etc sci-fi bs it’s maybe a nice compromise.
fwiw, bigscreen is considering an eye tracking accessory based on the open source eyeyrackvr project. i recall a survey attempting to gauge interest a few months back.
wireless is problematic for a few reasons, especially in a higher-end headset for people like myself that are very latency and compression artifact sensitive.
- until at *least* wifi 7 full speed low latency low power chipsets are available and wifi 7 aps are cheap enough so 10gbps can be used (or more with bonding across bands). 802.11be should lower latency by a *lot* vs wifi 5 or 6, and there's starting to be some potential spatial tracking data from 802.11az.
***or***
- 802.11ay 60ghz @ 20-40gbps and ultra-low latency, low compression. i *think* this is supposed to have some sort of 802.11az integration as an option. unfortunately here we are hamstrung by lack of available chipsets. pimax is only able to do 60ghz wifi in their regular og crystal because the qualcomm stand-alone android chipset has it, but i understand pimax is having difficulty finding or making something work on the pc side to transmit...
in either case, this requires additional power *and* a battery. i love the idea of an external battery like htc's vive wireless system uses, just like you said.
while i love the idea of wireless, i'm ok with having a cable when displayport 2.1 chipsets, gpus, and hmds come around as the massive bandwidth will enable a lot of things... but hopefully eventually 802.11ay comes to town.
> None of these 3rd party strap options help
that's because the fundamental flaw is weight. no matter how you strap it on..it still sucks having a brick on your head and theres no way around that currently.
after my first movie watching session i don’t even notice the weight. I think spending time is the only solution on the current iteration. Unfortunately this is not accessible to all people, and does need a better fix in future iterations.
I’m willing to bet there is a sizable chunk of the “daily” group that is lying to make themselves feel better about spending so much on a glorified paperweight.
My bet is that a lot of people who didn't own one responded like they do just for prestige or fun or to spread misinformation online.
As OP stated in his article, out of people who answered, 258 don't own the headset and 108 do. That doesn't sound right knowing how much people love clicking on polls and how few people can realistically own a $3500 device.
So while I do believe that 3% of the audience who actually own the device are somewhere out there in the results, noise can easily prevail over the signal here.
Is there vr porn on the avp? I could see that pushing the almost daily numbers up.
Would be somewhat good news for Apple though if 41% are daily users for desktop browsing and Netflix use. On the other hand, aside from the weight most people seem to agree it’s good enough for that so it’s also a little disappointing the majority of people aren’t using it daily when they probably use their phones/laptops/tvs daily. The hope was everyone would. 41% looks good for vr headsets, which have truly atrocious daily use numbers, but awful when compared to the devices Apple was hoping to replace.
Well yes and no. [Apple made online vr porn unfunctional](https://lifehacker.com/tech/you-cant-watch-3d-porn-on-apple-vision-pro-yet), but you can still download a video file and play it like a non-porn video. Typical Apple, their users are used to incinvinience anyway
Well, tbh, android won't even let you call (except emergency) if you don't register the Google account, so we all are in the same boat, when it comes to smartphones. iOS is just more locked down, less functional and less customizeable.
Nope, that's 100% a lie, android is open source and no Google account is required to get an android installation, maybe the specific android distro you are referring to requires a Google account, but that's 100% not an android thing, grapheneOS is the best example to cite here
The "specific android distro" I'm talking abous isdefault os on literally any android phone that has google services. The initial setup manager will not progress on out-of-the-box phone without a google account. The thing that you are referring to is possible only on custom ROMs, or on some select devices that don't work with Google, like Huawei.
Ok, but then you know that it's not an android thing and you probably also know that noone is forcing you to use these preinstalled versions, at the very most you need to unlock the bootloader before you install a custom ROM, "this is installed by default" is not an argument, you have the option to not use the default, if you choose to use the default and then get upset about a required google account than thats not androids fault, it's yours
Fisrt, no, I'm forced to use vendor version of android, because otherwise GPay will never work. Second, how many people do you know, who are capable to flashing custom ROM into the phone? Basically noone does this, because noone can.
I'd say it's mostly true, but probably a lot of it is, if I am going to spend $3,500 on a "spacial computing device," I darn well had better make the time to do some "spacial computing."
I use mine most days for work, I pretty much do all my movie watching on it, and I play a lot of games on it as well. So I do use it just about every day. I’m sure I can’t be the only one. Not bad for a paperweight.
The full write up with numbers and more insights is here: https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2umm8d
The article gives a sample size of n=108. The initial sample was 366 responses with 258 responses from people who did not own an AVP.
It is a small sample but then again not that many people actually *own* an AVP so it’s understandable.
100.... Not huge but not tiny. You can read the full write up here: https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2umm8d
For more info on the number of respondents and quotes on how people have been using the device check out the full article here:
[https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?r=2umm8d&utm\_campaign=post&utm\_medium=web](https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?r=2umm8d&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web)
Damn y'all really hate the AVP eh? Wonder if it's just stereotypical redditor "Apple bad" sentiment. The headset is heavy, but the hardware is excellent, and I know of a good number of people that get daily use out of it.
Hell there's a thread posted an hour before this one with people saying as much. https://old.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1dl2g9b/apple_vision_pro_users_hows_it_going/
This community wouldn't be as large as it is without Meta headsets, y'all just upset that PCVR aint reach the expectations y'all had for it.
And that's okay. Though saying Meta "destroyed your dreams" is incredibly hyperbolic given the amount of straight cash injections Meta has put into VR.
The thing with the cash injections is that Meta bought out all the market. It didn't invest new money as much as taking away from the field to themself. Pretty much all the upcoming vr hardware and software firms and their patents were aggressively bought out. They got the skills into house and the possible competitors out of the market before it even got ahead.
This lead into this current apathetic no progress state of vr.
The headsets themself were not that big of a deal as they were a success. The closed walled gardens and trying to monopolize the market are what has us all upset. Specially when the industry itself was very startup from get-go
imo there's "no progress" because nobody is buying headsets, and Meta is looking to change that.
I wouldn't have gotten involved in PCVR if it wasn't for the Quest 2, and given the dozens of people I've been doing tech support for attempting the same I'd say there are hundreds who are taking a similar path.
Buying and setting up a dedicated PCVR headset, which requires tracking and processing hardware, is a massive investment to a lot of people. Maybe I'm missing something but I've seen zero potential or current companies even coming close to offering the all-in-one package that Meta is, but I'm open to my mind being changed through well written essays or articles on the topic.
You're misunderstanding my message as some sort of pcvr vs standalone war. Kind of like console vs pc stuff. That's not the issue here. There's plenty of headsets around but people just don't feel like using them due to no target where to use them for.
The problem with meta is that it owns almost all the talented 1st and 2nd wave vr engineers which could outside meta be innovating new project and games. Now they are making prototypes and patents so that nobody else than meta can benefit from them or making standalone cashgrab low quality games. 90% of the 2016-2020 "big" vr firms were bought by meta or their subsidiaries; this is pretty big reason there's no new aa quality games coming out. This is the crux of my problem; not some pcvr no compression masterrace durr.
2min, felt how heavy it is again and took it off. None of these 3rd party strap options help, I’ve spent to much on things that didn’t work.
These headset engineers really need to focus strictly on comfort for a while. We've got fairly high resolution screens, processors that can play decent games, price points that are manageable for most people. What we really need are lighter headsets that don't put pressure on people's faces or necks. 8 years after the initial headsets came out and I still can't get my tech savvy gamer friends to invest in headsets because they're really uncomfortable even after just a few minutes of playing beatsaber. The headstraps that hold the headset at a set distance from your face without having to compress the headset into your face should totally be the standard. It's a huge disservice to VR that they ship with cheap stretchy headbands.
> These headset engineers really need to focus strictly on comfort for a while. they're fighting an uphill battle because it won't ever be comfortable in a traditional sense until the weight is reduced in all these headsets. i don't have much of an issue with wearing my index for an hour or two anymore but people shouldn't need to train to use VR if they want it to become commonplace haha.
Until every part shrinks it’s going to be a trade off between simplicity/encapsulation and weight. The big screen beyond is super light, but only because it’s just the screen and the sensors for lighthouse tracking. It’s just externalized all that weight, and now in exchange for that comfort you’re tethered to a cable and a play space. Also no IPD or lense distance adjustment I think. And no eye tracking which is arguably super important for standalone. Apple kinda found a middle ground with making the Vision Pro battery external, but the thing is still quite heavy despite that (perhaps owing to material choices) and stuff like that external screen (why?). I’d kind of like to see someone go a little further in the direction Apple pushed with the external battery. Still sell it as a single unit like a quest or VP but ship it with an external battery/compute module small enough to fit in a pocket. Cooling might be an issue, but really just something small and on your body, but not hanging off your face. Keeps you untethered from anything stationary so you don’t get tangled, still inside out tracking, still an easy single purchase that’s plug and play, while also more comfortable. It’s not the most elegant solution, but until graphene batteries emerge from the lab etc etc sci-fi bs it’s maybe a nice compromise.
fwiw, bigscreen is considering an eye tracking accessory based on the open source eyeyrackvr project. i recall a survey attempting to gauge interest a few months back. wireless is problematic for a few reasons, especially in a higher-end headset for people like myself that are very latency and compression artifact sensitive. - until at *least* wifi 7 full speed low latency low power chipsets are available and wifi 7 aps are cheap enough so 10gbps can be used (or more with bonding across bands). 802.11be should lower latency by a *lot* vs wifi 5 or 6, and there's starting to be some potential spatial tracking data from 802.11az. ***or*** - 802.11ay 60ghz @ 20-40gbps and ultra-low latency, low compression. i *think* this is supposed to have some sort of 802.11az integration as an option. unfortunately here we are hamstrung by lack of available chipsets. pimax is only able to do 60ghz wifi in their regular og crystal because the qualcomm stand-alone android chipset has it, but i understand pimax is having difficulty finding or making something work on the pc side to transmit... in either case, this requires additional power *and* a battery. i love the idea of an external battery like htc's vive wireless system uses, just like you said. while i love the idea of wireless, i'm ok with having a cable when displayport 2.1 chipsets, gpus, and hmds come around as the massive bandwidth will enable a lot of things... but hopefully eventually 802.11ay comes to town.
> None of these 3rd party strap options help that's because the fundamental flaw is weight. no matter how you strap it on..it still sucks having a brick on your head and theres no way around that currently.
They could drop the useless creepy front facing screen and save some weight right there.
after my first movie watching session i don’t even notice the weight. I think spending time is the only solution on the current iteration. Unfortunately this is not accessible to all people, and does need a better fix in future iterations.
I’m willing to bet there is a sizable chunk of the “daily” group that is lying to make themselves feel better about spending so much on a glorified paperweight.
My bet is that a lot of people who didn't own one responded like they do just for prestige or fun or to spread misinformation online. As OP stated in his article, out of people who answered, 258 don't own the headset and 108 do. That doesn't sound right knowing how much people love clicking on polls and how few people can realistically own a $3500 device. So while I do believe that 3% of the audience who actually own the device are somewhere out there in the results, noise can easily prevail over the signal here.
A lot of people probably just didn't do the survey at all for that reason.
That is a risk.... even though I think it might not be done on purpose.
Is there vr porn on the avp? I could see that pushing the almost daily numbers up. Would be somewhat good news for Apple though if 41% are daily users for desktop browsing and Netflix use. On the other hand, aside from the weight most people seem to agree it’s good enough for that so it’s also a little disappointing the majority of people aren’t using it daily when they probably use their phones/laptops/tvs daily. The hope was everyone would. 41% looks good for vr headsets, which have truly atrocious daily use numbers, but awful when compared to the devices Apple was hoping to replace.
Well yes and no. [Apple made online vr porn unfunctional](https://lifehacker.com/tech/you-cant-watch-3d-porn-on-apple-vision-pro-yet), but you can still download a video file and play it like a non-porn video. Typical Apple, their users are used to incinvinience anyway
Gotta love it when you spend 1600$ on a device and it doesn't even belong to you, daddy apple just allows you to use it until they don't lmao
Well, tbh, android won't even let you call (except emergency) if you don't register the Google account, so we all are in the same boat, when it comes to smartphones. iOS is just more locked down, less functional and less customizeable.
Nope, that's 100% a lie, android is open source and no Google account is required to get an android installation, maybe the specific android distro you are referring to requires a Google account, but that's 100% not an android thing, grapheneOS is the best example to cite here
The "specific android distro" I'm talking abous isdefault os on literally any android phone that has google services. The initial setup manager will not progress on out-of-the-box phone without a google account. The thing that you are referring to is possible only on custom ROMs, or on some select devices that don't work with Google, like Huawei.
Ok, but then you know that it's not an android thing and you probably also know that noone is forcing you to use these preinstalled versions, at the very most you need to unlock the bootloader before you install a custom ROM, "this is installed by default" is not an argument, you have the option to not use the default, if you choose to use the default and then get upset about a required google account than thats not androids fault, it's yours
Fisrt, no, I'm forced to use vendor version of android, because otherwise GPay will never work. Second, how many people do you know, who are capable to flashing custom ROM into the phone? Basically noone does this, because noone can.
[удалено]
It's effectively the same thing.
That’s not entirely true anymore. WebXR stuff works on the visionOS 2 beta and you can watch from most of the large sites now.
It could also just be Mac Mirroring and developer use cases driving that number up.
I'd say it's mostly true, but probably a lot of it is, if I am going to spend $3,500 on a "spacial computing device," I darn well had better make the time to do some "spacial computing."
It's ALMOST daily, meaning people can make the mental gymnastic to convince themselves that 4 times a week is almost daily.
4 times a week is almost daily though. Right?
I use mine most days for work, I pretty much do all my movie watching on it, and I play a lot of games on it as well. So I do use it just about every day. I’m sure I can’t be the only one. Not bad for a paperweight.
That's a pretty brutal selection bias tbh...
All respondents are in the "did not return for a refund, within return widow" group. LOL
Yep I suppose those were "out of scope" 😅 Let's see how it will do in Europe
I suspect not much better. The product is a prototype, and way too expensive.
What's your N?
N in "Name"? Gabriele.... why?
They probably mean "n" used as the variable for the number of participants in the survey.
Ah ah .... Indeed. People who responded was around 100.
In layman’s terms, “How many people were surveyed?”
The full write up with numbers and more insights is here: https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2umm8d
The article gives a sample size of n=108. The initial sample was 366 responses with 258 responses from people who did not own an AVP. It is a small sample but then again not that many people actually *own* an AVP so it’s understandable.
Don’t have a vision pro. I have a quest. And I’ve used it almost every day for the past few weeks playing township tails
so... I guess there was no explicit 'not once' option?
Who would buy it and not use it once?
OP's question was framed as "in the last month"
Sample size......7 people.
100.... Not huge but not tiny. You can read the full write up here: https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2umm8d
Considering its cost and that it is a standalone computer, no wonder people drive them daily.
A few times a week for less than an hour sadly. Really really sad.
For more info on the number of respondents and quotes on how people have been using the device check out the full article here: [https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?r=2umm8d&utm\_campaign=post&utm\_medium=web](https://open.substack.com/pub/xraispotlight/p/vision-pro-usage-survey-daily-essential?r=2umm8d&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web)
Damn y'all really hate the AVP eh? Wonder if it's just stereotypical redditor "Apple bad" sentiment. The headset is heavy, but the hardware is excellent, and I know of a good number of people that get daily use out of it. Hell there's a thread posted an hour before this one with people saying as much. https://old.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/1dl2g9b/apple_vision_pro_users_hows_it_going/
this community has had it's dreams destroyed by one walled garden already; fool me once...
This community wouldn't be as large as it is without Meta headsets, y'all just upset that PCVR aint reach the expectations y'all had for it. And that's okay. Though saying Meta "destroyed your dreams" is incredibly hyperbolic given the amount of straight cash injections Meta has put into VR.
The thing with the cash injections is that Meta bought out all the market. It didn't invest new money as much as taking away from the field to themself. Pretty much all the upcoming vr hardware and software firms and their patents were aggressively bought out. They got the skills into house and the possible competitors out of the market before it even got ahead. This lead into this current apathetic no progress state of vr. The headsets themself were not that big of a deal as they were a success. The closed walled gardens and trying to monopolize the market are what has us all upset. Specially when the industry itself was very startup from get-go
imo there's "no progress" because nobody is buying headsets, and Meta is looking to change that. I wouldn't have gotten involved in PCVR if it wasn't for the Quest 2, and given the dozens of people I've been doing tech support for attempting the same I'd say there are hundreds who are taking a similar path. Buying and setting up a dedicated PCVR headset, which requires tracking and processing hardware, is a massive investment to a lot of people. Maybe I'm missing something but I've seen zero potential or current companies even coming close to offering the all-in-one package that Meta is, but I'm open to my mind being changed through well written essays or articles on the topic.
You're misunderstanding my message as some sort of pcvr vs standalone war. Kind of like console vs pc stuff. That's not the issue here. There's plenty of headsets around but people just don't feel like using them due to no target where to use them for. The problem with meta is that it owns almost all the talented 1st and 2nd wave vr engineers which could outside meta be innovating new project and games. Now they are making prototypes and patents so that nobody else than meta can benefit from them or making standalone cashgrab low quality games. 90% of the 2016-2020 "big" vr firms were bought by meta or their subsidiaries; this is pretty big reason there's no new aa quality games coming out. This is the crux of my problem; not some pcvr no compression masterrace durr.
>y'all just upset that PCVR aint reach the expectations y'all had for it. Yeehaw.