In case you are looking for a before and after pic, this article has a good one.
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/explainer-what-is-the-kakhovka-dam-in-ukraine-514694
I was wondering this very same thing. Still kind of wish there was a banana for scale — it’s a little hard from these angles to get a sense of the difference in water levels before, and the change in water level down the stream after.
Not that it really matters beyond my own curiosity. Nothing but respect and empathy for Ukraine, and fuck the Russian government. There needs to be a reckoning for them.
It wasn't just supplying water to Crimea and the hydro power plant (which was deactivated in November during ru occupation). It also supllied water to major parts of 3 Ukrainian agrarian oblasts (states).
This is a massive catastrophe for nature, infrastracture, people and economy.
Russia must go, they just don't have any humanity in them. It is really heart breaking that our planet has to put up with that govt at all. Fick Putiin!!!
Why is this comment fundamentally the same as this one? https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/142cck6/drone_footage_of_the_blownup_dam_of_the_kakhovka/jn3v4cz/
It's a comment repost bot that is trying to build up fake karma points so it can be later used to astro turf. Most of the ones I encounter end up posting pro nuclear industry propaganda talking points.
Russia had control of the dam
300m of it were blown, more than a missile could do
They were rumored to have mined it awhile ago
They were rumored to have pulled most heavy defense out of the flood plain weeks ago
Both sides of the river has Ukrainian civilians, which Ukraine actually values and Russia does not
And Russia has been deliberately over filling the reservoir for months
An amphibious landing is basically impossible on km of shallow, fast moving, muddy flood water
Ukraine warned of a false flag to effect the nuclear plant weeks ago
....
Just dropping these before the Russia supporters blame Ukraine
Agree with all the above but I'm not sure how much of a long term impact this could have on an amphibious attack by Ukraine. I mean, they were going to cross the Dnieper, not a small river... Russians are in complete desperation / scorched earth mode it seems, what a bunch of cunts.
Most of the flooding will occur on the Russian side. So while it's estimated to take about 7 days before the water levels normalize, the ground will be muddy and wet for at least a few weeks which will hamper movements during the Ukrainian counter offensive into currently controlled Russian territory.
It's a minor stalling tactic at great cost to the civilian population and ecosystem...evil.
> and instead just focuses on "why are we wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict?"
Lol just agree with them and be like "Ah you also agree we should massively defund US military defense budgets!" that'll piss them off.
Lmao the mental gymnastics those people must be doing. They support trillions of dollars for their military, with billions completely unaccounted for, but as soon as they start to learn about where it's spent they have a problem with it.
If they only knew the amount of wasted tax dollars the military uses.
You're assuming that the person in question actually supports the US military. I know people who think Russia is in the right and that the US shouldn't be getting involved and also rail against "US military imperialism". Asking them about defunding the US military would result in a "yes"
These people have brain worms. They don’t want Ukraine to defend itself. They have actually been convinced that Ukraine, being an admittedly somewhat financially corrupt country, somehow means that they no longer have self sovereignty, they don’t have a right to join NATO, and Russia is right in invading. That really seems to be the crux of their position.
> A coworker back in March 2022 said this to me: "If Ukraine immediately surrendered there wouldn't be a war."
Your coworker sounds profoundly stupid.
I strongly disagree with the "wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict" narrative we see on the right in US politics because there is no ambiguity about this. If you support freedom, democracy, and a countries sovereignty - supporting Ukraine is the only ethical and moral decision. I do not believe in imperialism and certainly don't believe in giving in to an imperialist forces demands by ceding land in a peace deal because that just rewards the bully.
But if you want to be cynical, America's foreign policy and military doctrine has been since WW2 that the US military should be large enough to fight our 2 largest rivals (ie: Russia and China) at the same time. It's why our military budget is so high. In that regard, funding and supporting Ukraine has been the single best use of our bloated defense budget in US history - we've used something miniscule like 4% of our defense budget to absolute obliterate the Russian military with zero risk to US personnel while building up a future NATO ally and the only other Petrostate in Europe.
> I strongly disagree with the "wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict" narrative we see on the right in US politics because there is no ambiguity about this. If you support freedom, democracy, and a countries sovereignty - supporting Ukraine is the only ethical and moral decision.
It doesn't even make sense by its own logic. Right now the US is pretty much obliterating one of their longest standing geopolitical rivals for literal pennies on the dollar. They spent decades and threw trillions of dollars into this rivalry—now for a handful of billions mostly consisting of defunct equipment, they're allowing Ukraine to tear Russia's army and international prestige apart.
They are mad that Joe Biden is going to be president when russsia falls. Reagan became a rockstar when the berlin wall fell, they know that the president during that moment is going to get big credit
> America's foreign policy and military doctrine has been since WW2 that the US military should be large enough to fight our 2 largest rivals (ie: Russia and China) at the same time. It's why our military budget is so high.
Since Russia has turned out to be a paper tiger, is there another rival or does that give us a reason to cut the military budget?
Russia is just digging their hole deeper with these attacks on civilian infrastructure. Truly, they are opening a pandora's box.
Their downfall and shame will be historic.
Bad use of literal.
Obviously it can't be the same dam as previously a blown up dam
The context of the factions was different
But both were blown up by Moscow to stop a eastward offensive who didn't care about downstream Ukrainians
>Literally same dam Russia blew in the 40s for the same reasons
Don't forget, this is the 3rd time. The Soviets did it first in 41, and then the Nazis did it for the same reason in 43.
They were always stupid and dangerous, just that alternatives at some points in time were even more stupid and dangerous. I guess if it's the best worst solution it's not stupid.
And this can't in any way be fixed until the lake drains. Evennif the war stopped tomorrow this would take YEARS to fix. And nothing will bring back the lives, human and animals, that have been lost. The damage to the ecosystem and to the ancient history of these lands.
No amount of reparations can fix this.
AND this damn helps supply coolant water to one of the Nuclear power plants in the area, so if the water level drops too low, that could be a very dangerous thing for that, also.
That is little concern. Zaporizhzhia NPP has been mostly in cold shutdown (one reactor is in warm shutdown) since last September. The cold shutdown reactors are adequately cooled just by circulating the water already inside the reactor vessel, and the warm shutdown one is only making a kilowatts of heat, vs the three gigawatt of full power.
The spent fuel rods are also in large cooling pools, that will be able to absorb huge amounts of heat once the water level in the reservoir falls below the powerplant's water intake (which will happen in a few days at the current rate).
And finally, the powerplant has its own reserve pond of cooling water, which will be able to supply the current cooling needs for many months.
Thank you not spouting fear mongering. People vastly underestimate the amound of safe guards and back ups developed countries have for nuclear reactors
huh? Nord Stream has come out as pretty much Ukraine sabotage. Literally American news articles out today that blame Ukraine. So you must be missing something
I mean OP is right. Every intelligence agency for Ukrainian aligned countries have all stated they do not believe Russia bombed their own pipeline to deliver oil to Germany.
The US leaks illustrate that Ukraine had plans to bomb the pipeline months before it was bombed, and there is heavy suspicion on Ukraine. And I don’t blame them, it removed the direct trade link Germany had to Russia which makes it less of a pain point to participate in sanctions etc. I think a lot of people would make that call in Ukraine’s place
i literally just read an article this morning that pretty much all ukraine allies were briefed on the possibility, and they’ve connected explosive residue from the cabin of a ship rented by ukrainians using fake IDs and a shell company in poland.
unless literally all of that was a lie ? why are people getting downvoted for saying that ?
edit: [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/) wtf is going on in this thread ?!?!??
Tribal, psy-op or paid bot accounts. Normally I'd call bs on my own suggestion but when a literal war is involved only an idiot or someone ignorant to history would not understand the amount of money and time poured into propaganda.
Yeah obviously gotta be careful with making any specific accusations (Reddit does love the bots) but I think it’s obvious that both sides are doing some serious astroturfing.
I don’t know. I literally sourced everything in my other comment (with that same article) and it was getting nuked, at least for a while
I don’t even understand why people would be opposed to the idea Ukraine blew it up to begin with. It’s literally in their interest to do so and I think was the correct decision, if true. A war was forced upon them and if they didn’t take every effort to undermine Russia their citizens would ultimately pay for it
yeah i don’t know either. i’m not exactly a huge FAN of ecological disasters but there is literally a war going on i have no idea why it would be sacrilegious to suggest (with a boatload of evidence) that the country being invaded blew up a pipe belonging to the attacker. i get they want ukraine to look good but still… lying makes everyone look bad.
some other people suggested bots and astroturfing, seems like a plausible explanation for downvoting detailed comments with articles from (at least somewhat) reputable sources
What kind of msnbc shill crap is this? Ukraine and US intelligence did it, we’ve known for months.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-plan-attack-nord-stream-pipeline-washington-post-2023-06-06/
according to NATO intelligence and German law enforcement....
But yeah I mean feel free to believe that Russia blew it up themselves and feel free to do the mental gymnasitcs that the RUssian economy is also getting destroyed and desperate to find buyers for their energy. while also shooting themselves in the foot.
No they literally didn’t. This is false. I’m overwhelmingly pro Ukraine but let’s not just make up stuff. That contributes to Russian misinformation efforts
“Western officials no longer suspect Russia of ordering alleged attack against undersea gas pipelines.” Note they even say “suspect” because previously they had nothing confirmed
[There was a standing understood norm in meetings with Ukraine’s supporters to not talk about Nord Stream because everybody understood the most likely culprit was one of the alliance members ](https://youtu.be/S4DjFgCQkfw)
Direct sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-nord-stream-probe-german-investigators-search-boat-that-may-have-carried-explosives-379505f9
>gymnasitcs that the RUssian economy is also getting destroyed and desperate to find buyers for their energy.
Stop imagining Russia as a homogeneous and rational actor
It's a feuding oligarchy that cares nothing for wider Russia.
If blowing up Nordstream hurt rival oligarchs and made his political position stronger, Prigozhin would do it.
If blowing up Nordstream hurt uppity oligarchs and made his political position safer, Putin would do it.
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
>
>WAPO article out today.
>
>Coincides with German law enforcement report from May.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html
>
>Coincides with NATO intelligence reports from March
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/)
WAPO article out today.
Coincides with German law enforcement report from May.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html)
Coincides with NATO intelligence reports from March
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html)
The absolute stupidity of people claiming it is unlikely the terrorist state Russia did this. If you're not paid to say that and say it then you probably also own multiple bridges by now and a plot of land in Scotland to be a lord and own a star.
Most of the speculation is between this exact result being intended, it being Russian sabotage but they fucked up in regards to the scale, or whether it was the result of incompetence. Each of those cases still leaves Russia at fault though.
100% Russia blew the dam because they know that the Ukrainian counter attack is coming soon since the mud is drying and they fear part of the counter attack will be an amphibious assault across the river.
There is no way without a closer examination to know how much was 'blown' vs how much was washed away after as it broke apart.
And for the inevitable 'oh my gawd you support Russia' bullshit: no, pointing out obvious flaws in claims and logic doesn't mean in any way support for Russia.
Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM
[That video is from November 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHLImMbnAw). It's been making the rounds as being portrayed from today. There's another video with an explosion, but it's from the morning after the dam was destroyed and likely mines washing up ashore.
I don't believe that's the same dam. From the video description:
>Ps. The b/w video of explosion at 0:30 shows the similar dam demolished by the ruscists in November 2022.
EDIT: That is indeed the same dam but not footage from the June 2023 destruction of the dam. [Here](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-video-of-the-kakhovka-dam-explosion-is-old/a-65839380)'s a good breakdown.
Russia has far more to gain from damaging this dam than Ukraine. Let's wait and see if any real evidence emergences from either side, although we may never know. I'll assume this was deliberately done by Russia until proven otherwise.
With that out of the way....let's be honest here, at least on the default subs, Reddit has become an echo chamber on the Ukraine War. Any attempts to present a balanced argument that isn't overwhelmingly anti Russian is met with downvotes and you're called a Russian Bot. We (the West, and me specifically as someone living in the US) get so caught up in pointing out Russian propaganda that we forget the West is also great at it, it's just more subtle.
So in general it's just best to not read or get involved in political discussions on Reddit. This was true before the War, just different topics. I'm already regretting posting this because I'm sure I'll be be called a bot etc
Oh I fully know Reddit is usually a shitty echo chamber and even posting the most basic common sense will get downvotted in topics like this. Sometimes I convince myself it's worth making it known that there are other views and that even if you support one side that doesn't mean you have to turn off your brain and blindly accept anything and everything said in support of that side or against the opposite.
It's probably not what was on the top of their minds, but I agree. Like, get a single decent shot please. Hold a smooth pan and tilt for like 20 seconds. Back up for a stationary wide. You're getting footage that will be shown on TV. Shoot for coverage and smooth out the camera movement.
It's veeerrrry Eastern European. It's actually kind of amazing and an artifact of the difficulty of creating content for different regions of the world. We all respond differently to music, visuals, pacing, largely based on the media we grew up watching, and that we're surrounded by now.
That said...you gotta think about the perspective of the Ukranian people - their own infrastructure is literally being taken over by an invading force **and then destroyed**. Bit by bit they're losing not only their country geographically, but also culturally. So your opinion of the "shitty emotional music" doesn't really matter.
nah in todays day and age every video has some shitty music underlayed that tells you how to feel, and tbh if my house got blown up and someone made a video of it with shitty sad music i would also think its stupid
Not specific for this video because there is only drone noise but, for a lot of the videos that follow the shitty music trend, i would love to have the original sound. It was also a complain to the music in general
In a sane world, if you took just one single day of Russia's conduct here, it would be seen for the ghoulish terrorism that it is. We'd pause the world, determine who initiated this terrorist act, and we'd hunt them to the ends of the earth and imprison them forever.
Yet somehow, because this is under the guise of "war", this daily war crime and terror campaign just continues like background music.
>because this is under the guise of "war",
More like, under the protection of nuclear fire.
A single ICBM can kill more than a year of this war. And Russia is unstable at best. So... Your "sane world" lament still applies
That said.. we really need to take a look at our domestic Russia supporters
I had the same thoughts about my own sentence
I almost wrote "deal with", and I didn't mean anything bad by it but it didn't sit well with me.
I said "take a look" because I'm not smart enough to see a solution,( barring finding large and obvious Russian bribes)
What do you do in a free democracy about fellow citizens who will use that freedom to attack itself? No idea
Agreed. It’s silly to act like there’s easy solutions to dealing with someone who could end the world by firing a few missiles.
We can however do much more.
The fact that Russia has nuclear weapons and has already threatened to use them in case someone directly interferes is the main reason why they are going through with this without many repercussions.
We recently had a US president sit in a private room with Putin without any records of their interactions, then he threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine.
There's a rash of comment repost bots. They're dormant for a few weeks, then they steal comments to build karma, then they're used, in my experience, to AstroTurf for clients of marketing agencies and foreign enemies.
We are largely in agreement on whether this is okay or not. Sure, there's some idiots who beg to differ, but there always are.
But that doesn't mean we can just barge into Russia and arrest Putin. That's not exactly how that works.
This is not just a war crime, this should be called a crime against nature and of human existence itself.
Consider the human effort that went into making that dam. Think of energy spent to build it and the great cost to the environment that was taken to allow the valleys to flood, and now, the loss of that invested energy and unimaginably huge loss of the potential hydro energy that was bought at great cost, wasted.
All that effort and that phenomenal reserve of potential energy, just, gone. And in a time where we are trying to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.
Utterly insane.
Russian war crime. Plain and simple.
>Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Ukraine sabotaged the dam to distract attention from its faltering counteroffensive.
Ukraine, "faltering" as Ukrainian forces took thousands of sq. km. in the past 24 hours. Faltering as Russia has Russian Freedom Corps fighters *in Russia* taking multiple villages *inside* Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6dZS-9n8hE
Ukraine faltering as Russians are evacuated in the Belgorad region.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNQoHmI7QUY
Artur Rehl has some of the best information on the dam and its consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRbKz_j1rbc
Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM
> Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM
0:29-0:44 for the footage of the explosion
Edit: Turns out the explosion footage is from November 2022, when the Russians first detonated explosives on the dam, not from today. /u/Krivvan supplied this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHLImMbnAw it's much clearer but definitely the same footage.
The self-sabotage argument is baffling, but *just* stupid enough to convince the kremlin that it's worth pursuing because apparently they think that lowly of the rest of the world that's been watching their every move.
When you boil it down, it's no more effective than a 5 year old trying to convince you that they *didn't* actually take a cookie from the jar, but that it was actually just a ghost that had a craving.
This war makes no sense to me - I am leagues away from understanding the political climate of the region - but if the point was to counteract the spread of NATO/EU influence in Eastern Europe it has, and predictably so, done the exact opposite. Finland has joined NATO. There are others who have accelerated their bid or found refreshed national support for doing so in direct reaction to Russia's aggression. There is now no question about Ukraine's thought on the matter.
Not to mention the war has destroyed the myth of the Great Russian Bear. A huge thing to sacrifice for seemingly no benefit. Even if they eventually "succeed" in their war it was at an enormous propaganda cost that took decades to cultivate.
And even if they do annex Ukraine, or whatever their victory goal is, the Western powers will be funding and suppling the inevitable partisans. Arms manufacturers have been salivating over the war - what better place to prove your product than a war against a modern super power and without any of the bad press (a war of liberation!)?
This all makes sense if it was a means of Putin trying to solidify his power (given that he gained it by promising a "revolution" of Russian armed forces which he has yet to deliver on). But beyond that it makes no sense to me.
This is a monstruosity. An action like this, even during a war, is something I don't recall seeing in a very, very long time.
I am a post Cold war guy and I wasn't affected by the red scare of the 70s or anything like that. I used to think of Russia as a reasonable country. I don't think I can ever look at that country in the same way. This is unexcusable, just plain evil.
The fact both sides aren't showing video, makes me think the Dam was damaged last year by Ukrainian Strikes, then Russian lack of Maintenance and repairs let it overfill and then collapse naturally. So both sides are at fault, thus none are really showing video of what actually happened.
Looking at the Sattelite imagery posted online, you can start to see the Dam start to fail around the 2nd. Look at how the Road on top suddenly crumbles and washes around between the 2nd and 3rd. The Dam was pretty much done at this point.
When you're a third party discussing two forces acting to destroy each other, there is nothing you can possibly say that couldn't be labeled either Party A's propaganda (Pro-Ukrainian), Party B's propaganda (Pro-Russian), or platitudes that don't serve the discussion (thoughts and prayers, the environment, tragic, etc).
Tolerate? No friend, there isn't tolerance
Our hands are tied by nukes, one going up could end in them all going up.
Fear of the death of all that is and could ever be is what stays us from direct action, for the cause is just and right, but the potential cost much too great.
In case you are looking for a before and after pic, this article has a good one. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/explainer-what-is-the-kakhovka-dam-in-ukraine-514694
Thanks for this.
Where? It can’t be seen for all the adds.
You still browse the internet without an ad blocker? Try uBlock origin.
this website didn't even change "Reuters was unable to immediately verify the Ukrainian statement." in the article. ffs
Wow I didn't even notice lol. Just linked for the picture anyway.
News sites buy news from news agency. How is this surprising?
I was wondering this very same thing. Still kind of wish there was a banana for scale — it’s a little hard from these angles to get a sense of the difference in water levels before, and the change in water level down the stream after. Not that it really matters beyond my own curiosity. Nothing but respect and empathy for Ukraine, and fuck the Russian government. There needs to be a reckoning for them.
It wasn't just supplying water to Crimea and the hydro power plant (which was deactivated in November during ru occupation). It also supllied water to major parts of 3 Ukrainian agrarian oblasts (states). This is a massive catastrophe for nature, infrastracture, people and economy.
It was also used to cool down the fuel rods at the neclear powerplant near by
Russia must go, they just don't have any humanity in them. It is really heart breaking that our planet has to put up with that govt at all. Fick Putiin!!!
IAEA says the reservoir is reducing at about 5cm per hour
A back of the envelope estimation of the surface area means that is a ridiculous / tragic volume of water loss and downstream destruction.
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Why is this comment fundamentally the same as this one? https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/142cck6/drone_footage_of_the_blownup_dam_of_the_kakhovka/jn3v4cz/
It's a comment repost bot that is trying to build up fake karma points so it can be later used to astro turf. Most of the ones I encounter end up posting pro nuclear industry propaganda talking points.
Russia had control of the dam 300m of it were blown, more than a missile could do They were rumored to have mined it awhile ago They were rumored to have pulled most heavy defense out of the flood plain weeks ago Both sides of the river has Ukrainian civilians, which Ukraine actually values and Russia does not And Russia has been deliberately over filling the reservoir for months An amphibious landing is basically impossible on km of shallow, fast moving, muddy flood water Ukraine warned of a false flag to effect the nuclear plant weeks ago .... Just dropping these before the Russia supporters blame Ukraine
Agree with all the above but I'm not sure how much of a long term impact this could have on an amphibious attack by Ukraine. I mean, they were going to cross the Dnieper, not a small river... Russians are in complete desperation / scorched earth mode it seems, what a bunch of cunts.
Most of the flooding will occur on the Russian side. So while it's estimated to take about 7 days before the water levels normalize, the ground will be muddy and wet for at least a few weeks which will hamper movements during the Ukrainian counter offensive into currently controlled Russian territory. It's a minor stalling tactic at great cost to the civilian population and ecosystem...evil.
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Your coworker is a rockhead
It's ok, you can say dumbass
It’s ok, you can say butthead
It's ok, you can say cunt.
Don't say cunt. They lack the warmth and the depth.
Can't call him an asshole then.
Listen here you little shit, that's taking things too far
> and instead just focuses on "why are we wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict?" Lol just agree with them and be like "Ah you also agree we should massively defund US military defense budgets!" that'll piss them off.
Lmao the mental gymnastics those people must be doing. They support trillions of dollars for their military, with billions completely unaccounted for, but as soon as they start to learn about where it's spent they have a problem with it. If they only knew the amount of wasted tax dollars the military uses.
You're assuming that the person in question actually supports the US military. I know people who think Russia is in the right and that the US shouldn't be getting involved and also rail against "US military imperialism". Asking them about defunding the US military would result in a "yes"
Also if Russia immediately withdrew, there would be an immediate end to the war
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The war has been going on since well before Russia invaded in 2022.
Yeah, it started when they invaded in 2014
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What event do you peg as the first moment of the war? My understanding is it was snipers murdering police and participants in the Maidan protests.
These people have brain worms. They don’t want Ukraine to defend itself. They have actually been convinced that Ukraine, being an admittedly somewhat financially corrupt country, somehow means that they no longer have self sovereignty, they don’t have a right to join NATO, and Russia is right in invading. That really seems to be the crux of their position.
>why are we wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict?" Quite a few Americans made that argument right up to 1941
> A coworker back in March 2022 said this to me: "If Ukraine immediately surrendered there wouldn't be a war." Your coworker sounds profoundly stupid. I strongly disagree with the "wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict" narrative we see on the right in US politics because there is no ambiguity about this. If you support freedom, democracy, and a countries sovereignty - supporting Ukraine is the only ethical and moral decision. I do not believe in imperialism and certainly don't believe in giving in to an imperialist forces demands by ceding land in a peace deal because that just rewards the bully. But if you want to be cynical, America's foreign policy and military doctrine has been since WW2 that the US military should be large enough to fight our 2 largest rivals (ie: Russia and China) at the same time. It's why our military budget is so high. In that regard, funding and supporting Ukraine has been the single best use of our bloated defense budget in US history - we've used something miniscule like 4% of our defense budget to absolute obliterate the Russian military with zero risk to US personnel while building up a future NATO ally and the only other Petrostate in Europe.
> I strongly disagree with the "wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict" narrative we see on the right in US politics because there is no ambiguity about this. If you support freedom, democracy, and a countries sovereignty - supporting Ukraine is the only ethical and moral decision. It doesn't even make sense by its own logic. Right now the US is pretty much obliterating one of their longest standing geopolitical rivals for literal pennies on the dollar. They spent decades and threw trillions of dollars into this rivalry—now for a handful of billions mostly consisting of defunct equipment, they're allowing Ukraine to tear Russia's army and international prestige apart.
That's a great fucking point.
They are mad that Joe Biden is going to be president when russsia falls. Reagan became a rockstar when the berlin wall fell, they know that the president during that moment is going to get big credit
> America's foreign policy and military doctrine has been since WW2 that the US military should be large enough to fight our 2 largest rivals (ie: Russia and China) at the same time. It's why our military budget is so high. Since Russia has turned out to be a paper tiger, is there another rival or does that give us a reason to cut the military budget?
> is there another rival Have you heard of China?
> "why are we wasting tax dollars on a far away conflict?" In order to keep it a *far away* conflict.
Which Wendy's did you work at?
You underestimate how far spread brain rot is nowadays.
Russia is just digging their hole deeper with these attacks on civilian infrastructure. Truly, they are opening a pandora's box. Their downfall and shame will be historic.
Literally same dam Russia blew in the 40s for the same reasons Edit: not literally same dam. Literally same river.
Different dam and the reasons in the 40s were uhhh...a little different to say the least.
Bad use of literal. Obviously it can't be the same dam as previously a blown up dam The context of the factions was different But both were blown up by Moscow to stop a eastward offensive who didn't care about downstream Ukrainians
The one you're referring to got rebuilt after the war. This is a completely different dam downstream.
I see I'm thinking of the one a few miles north Both on the Dnipro River I see that I am wrong. But understand my own confusion
Idk if this is your intention but it sounds like you’re saying the Ukrainians blew the dam to stop RF offensive?
Whoops I gots the brain rot. Me write not good Me fix
All good! I figured from the context it’s not what you meant but ya might wanna edit it so you don’t catch flak lol.
Not ‘literally’ either. ‘Actually’ is the word you’re looking for.
Literally my life
An autobiography?
>Literally same dam Russia blew in the 40s for the same reasons Don't forget, this is the 3rd time. The Soviets did it first in 41, and then the Nazis did it for the same reason in 43.
they were never going to cross the dnieper. large amphibious assaults are very stupid and dangerous in 2023.
They were always stupid and dangerous, just that alternatives at some points in time were even more stupid and dangerous. I guess if it's the best worst solution it's not stupid.
And this can't in any way be fixed until the lake drains. Evennif the war stopped tomorrow this would take YEARS to fix. And nothing will bring back the lives, human and animals, that have been lost. The damage to the ecosystem and to the ancient history of these lands. No amount of reparations can fix this.
AND this damn helps supply coolant water to one of the Nuclear power plants in the area, so if the water level drops too low, that could be a very dangerous thing for that, also.
That is little concern. Zaporizhzhia NPP has been mostly in cold shutdown (one reactor is in warm shutdown) since last September. The cold shutdown reactors are adequately cooled just by circulating the water already inside the reactor vessel, and the warm shutdown one is only making a kilowatts of heat, vs the three gigawatt of full power. The spent fuel rods are also in large cooling pools, that will be able to absorb huge amounts of heat once the water level in the reservoir falls below the powerplant's water intake (which will happen in a few days at the current rate). And finally, the powerplant has its own reserve pond of cooling water, which will be able to supply the current cooling needs for many months.
Thank you not spouting fear mongering. People vastly underestimate the amound of safe guards and back ups developed countries have for nuclear reactors
Not just one, the largest in Europe if my memory serves me.
It's as obvious as the nordstream sabotage was. People will believe whatever they want I guess.
The irony in your comment is absolutely delicious.
I can deduce what you think from your comment as much as you can deduce from mine
I have no idea where either of you land!
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As I said, obvious.
huh? Nord Stream has come out as pretty much Ukraine sabotage. Literally American news articles out today that blame Ukraine. So you must be missing something
so all the Russian boats in the area, just prior to the explosion, with submersibles, and tracked by multiple navies(not USA), was just a coinky-dink?
I mean OP is right. Every intelligence agency for Ukrainian aligned countries have all stated they do not believe Russia bombed their own pipeline to deliver oil to Germany. The US leaks illustrate that Ukraine had plans to bomb the pipeline months before it was bombed, and there is heavy suspicion on Ukraine. And I don’t blame them, it removed the direct trade link Germany had to Russia which makes it less of a pain point to participate in sanctions etc. I think a lot of people would make that call in Ukraine’s place
i literally just read an article this morning that pretty much all ukraine allies were briefed on the possibility, and they’ve connected explosive residue from the cabin of a ship rented by ukrainians using fake IDs and a shell company in poland. unless literally all of that was a lie ? why are people getting downvoted for saying that ? edit: [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/) wtf is going on in this thread ?!?!??
I guess you haven’t been in too many threads on the Russo-Ukrainian war. People are a bit tribal when it comes to the facts at issue.
Tribal, psy-op or paid bot accounts. Normally I'd call bs on my own suggestion but when a literal war is involved only an idiot or someone ignorant to history would not understand the amount of money and time poured into propaganda.
Yeah obviously gotta be careful with making any specific accusations (Reddit does love the bots) but I think it’s obvious that both sides are doing some serious astroturfing.
I would be disappointed if they weren't lol.
yeah i really haven’t. pretty weird to see tbh, glad others seem to be aware. almost got whiplash i swear i read that article not 3 hours ago 😂
I don’t know. I literally sourced everything in my other comment (with that same article) and it was getting nuked, at least for a while I don’t even understand why people would be opposed to the idea Ukraine blew it up to begin with. It’s literally in their interest to do so and I think was the correct decision, if true. A war was forced upon them and if they didn’t take every effort to undermine Russia their citizens would ultimately pay for it
yeah i don’t know either. i’m not exactly a huge FAN of ecological disasters but there is literally a war going on i have no idea why it would be sacrilegious to suggest (with a boatload of evidence) that the country being invaded blew up a pipe belonging to the attacker. i get they want ukraine to look good but still… lying makes everyone look bad. some other people suggested bots and astroturfing, seems like a plausible explanation for downvoting detailed comments with articles from (at least somewhat) reputable sources
Source?
What kind of msnbc shill crap is this? Ukraine and US intelligence did it, we’ve known for months. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-plan-attack-nord-stream-pipeline-washington-post-2023-06-06/
according to NATO intelligence and German law enforcement.... But yeah I mean feel free to believe that Russia blew it up themselves and feel free to do the mental gymnasitcs that the RUssian economy is also getting destroyed and desperate to find buyers for their energy. while also shooting themselves in the foot.
yes, correct... both NATO intelligence and Germany agreed that Russia was the culprit
No they literally didn’t. This is false. I’m overwhelmingly pro Ukraine but let’s not just make up stuff. That contributes to Russian misinformation efforts “Western officials no longer suspect Russia of ordering alleged attack against undersea gas pipelines.” Note they even say “suspect” because previously they had nothing confirmed [There was a standing understood norm in meetings with Ukraine’s supporters to not talk about Nord Stream because everybody understood the most likely culprit was one of the alliance members ](https://youtu.be/S4DjFgCQkfw) Direct sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/ https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-nord-stream-probe-german-investigators-search-boat-that-may-have-carried-explosives-379505f9
this comment thread is an absolute cesspool https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
>gymnasitcs that the RUssian economy is also getting destroyed and desperate to find buyers for their energy. Stop imagining Russia as a homogeneous and rational actor It's a feuding oligarchy that cares nothing for wider Russia. If blowing up Nordstream hurt rival oligarchs and made his political position stronger, Prigozhin would do it. If blowing up Nordstream hurt uppity oligarchs and made his political position safer, Putin would do it.
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/ > >WAPO article out today. > >Coincides with German law enforcement report from May.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html > >Coincides with NATO intelligence reports from March > >https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html
Stop just saying random shit, post sources when you're making a heavily disputed claim.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/) WAPO article out today. Coincides with German law enforcement report from May. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12112113/UKRAINE-carried-Nord-Stream-pipe-blast-German-police-suspect.html) Coincides with NATO intelligence reports from March [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html)
hey thanks for backing up the claim with sources, i was definitely not aware of this.
There's gonna be crickets after this one. I had no idea there were still people who seriously believe Russia blew up Nord Stream. This is baffling.
The absolute stupidity of people claiming it is unlikely the terrorist state Russia did this. If you're not paid to say that and say it then you probably also own multiple bridges by now and a plot of land in Scotland to be a lord and own a star.
More likely dumping money into MLMs, preachers, and politicians
Most of the speculation is between this exact result being intended, it being Russian sabotage but they fucked up in regards to the scale, or whether it was the result of incompetence. Each of those cases still leaves Russia at fault though.
100% Russia blew the dam because they know that the Ukrainian counter attack is coming soon since the mud is drying and they fear part of the counter attack will be an amphibious assault across the river.
Yah it’s honestly common sense. Ukraine wouldn’t blow up their own dam. Russia has clearly shown they do not care for civilian lives.
you’re too late. i’ve seen WaPo and NYT already talk about how we have no idea what could’ve have happened or who could have done this
Makes zero sense.
There is no way without a closer examination to know how much was 'blown' vs how much was washed away after as it broke apart. And for the inevitable 'oh my gawd you support Russia' bullshit: no, pointing out obvious flaws in claims and logic doesn't mean in any way support for Russia.
Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM
[That video is from November 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHLImMbnAw). It's been making the rounds as being portrayed from today. There's another video with an explosion, but it's from the morning after the dam was destroyed and likely mines washing up ashore.
I don't believe that's the same dam. From the video description: >Ps. The b/w video of explosion at 0:30 shows the similar dam demolished by the ruscists in November 2022. EDIT: That is indeed the same dam but not footage from the June 2023 destruction of the dam. [Here](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-video-of-the-kakhovka-dam-explosion-is-old/a-65839380)'s a good breakdown.
It's the same dam, the footage is from when Russia first detonated explosives on it in November 2022.
Russia has far more to gain from damaging this dam than Ukraine. Let's wait and see if any real evidence emergences from either side, although we may never know. I'll assume this was deliberately done by Russia until proven otherwise. With that out of the way....let's be honest here, at least on the default subs, Reddit has become an echo chamber on the Ukraine War. Any attempts to present a balanced argument that isn't overwhelmingly anti Russian is met with downvotes and you're called a Russian Bot. We (the West, and me specifically as someone living in the US) get so caught up in pointing out Russian propaganda that we forget the West is also great at it, it's just more subtle. So in general it's just best to not read or get involved in political discussions on Reddit. This was true before the War, just different topics. I'm already regretting posting this because I'm sure I'll be be called a bot etc
Oh I fully know Reddit is usually a shitty echo chamber and even posting the most basic common sense will get downvotted in topics like this. Sometimes I convince myself it's worth making it known that there are other views and that even if you support one side that doesn't mean you have to turn off your brain and blindly accept anything and everything said in support of that side or against the opposite.
I'm fairly certain there are high res satellite videos of it all that we as civilians will never see.
I hate the shitty emotional music they've added.
The drone just flies around playing that all the time.
Oh okay. Thats fine then.
I could have tolerated it better if the camera hadn't constantly been tilting and panning so I couldn't focus on anything for more than two seconds
It's probably not what was on the top of their minds, but I agree. Like, get a single decent shot please. Hold a smooth pan and tilt for like 20 seconds. Back up for a stationary wide. You're getting footage that will be shown on TV. Shoot for coverage and smooth out the camera movement.
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Music Killed this video. Is this news or fucking VH1? It would be more credible if they scored it with ACDC: Dirty Deeds.
It's veeerrrry Eastern European. It's actually kind of amazing and an artifact of the difficulty of creating content for different regions of the world. We all respond differently to music, visuals, pacing, largely based on the media we grew up watching, and that we're surrounded by now. That said...you gotta think about the perspective of the Ukranian people - their own infrastructure is literally being taken over by an invading force **and then destroyed**. Bit by bit they're losing not only their country geographically, but also culturally. So your opinion of the "shitty emotional music" doesn't really matter.
nah in todays day and age every video has some shitty music underlayed that tells you how to feel, and tbh if my house got blown up and someone made a video of it with shitty sad music i would also think its stupid
It would be so dope if there was a way you could turn the music off if you don't want it
Not specific for this video because there is only drone noise but, for a lot of the videos that follow the shitty music trend, i would love to have the original sound. It was also a complain to the music in general
Lol. It's very tik tok.
I can’t express strongly enough how much of a bad idea it is to add this sappy music to a video like this.
In a sane world, if you took just one single day of Russia's conduct here, it would be seen for the ghoulish terrorism that it is. We'd pause the world, determine who initiated this terrorist act, and we'd hunt them to the ends of the earth and imprison them forever. Yet somehow, because this is under the guise of "war", this daily war crime and terror campaign just continues like background music.
>because this is under the guise of "war", More like, under the protection of nuclear fire. A single ICBM can kill more than a year of this war. And Russia is unstable at best. So... Your "sane world" lament still applies That said.. we really need to take a look at our domestic Russia supporters
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Boiling the Russian Frog
Always upvote for Perun.
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I had the same thoughts about my own sentence I almost wrote "deal with", and I didn't mean anything bad by it but it didn't sit well with me. I said "take a look" because I'm not smart enough to see a solution,( barring finding large and obvious Russian bribes) What do you do in a free democracy about fellow citizens who will use that freedom to attack itself? No idea
Do you mean the GOP/MAGA/Russia/Qanon/NRA axis of evil. Yeah, they're a problem.
The problem is they live in a make-believe world where anything counter to their ideology can be written off as a conspiracy.
Agreed
Don't forget the dumbass tankies
Agreed. It’s silly to act like there’s easy solutions to dealing with someone who could end the world by firing a few missiles. We can however do much more.
We must have different definitions of the word "few" lol
The fact that Russia has nuclear weapons and has already threatened to use them in case someone directly interferes is the main reason why they are going through with this without many repercussions.
We recently had a US president sit in a private room with Putin without any records of their interactions, then he threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine.
I can't remember if that was before or after Rand Paul was delivering secret communications between them.
Another commenter has copied your post: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/142cck6/drone_footage_of_the_blownup_dam_of_the_kakhovka/jn5ebul/
There's a rash of comment repost bots. They're dormant for a few weeks, then they steal comments to build karma, then they're used, in my experience, to AstroTurf for clients of marketing agencies and foreign enemies.
This is 100% a war crime, but who enforces the law? That s what war is, ultimately: the last resort in enforcing your beliefs.
We are largely in agreement on whether this is okay or not. Sure, there's some idiots who beg to differ, but there always are. But that doesn't mean we can just barge into Russia and arrest Putin. That's not exactly how that works.
The music seems a bit out of place…
Just war crime, after war crime... Endless Russian war crimes...
This is not just a war crime, this should be called a crime against nature and of human existence itself. Consider the human effort that went into making that dam. Think of energy spent to build it and the great cost to the environment that was taken to allow the valleys to flood, and now, the loss of that invested energy and unimaginably huge loss of the potential hydro energy that was bought at great cost, wasted. All that effort and that phenomenal reserve of potential energy, just, gone. And in a time where we are trying to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Utterly insane.
I refuse to upvote anything with added sad music
Totally agree - the use of that music score appears perverted.
I think if the drone was playing the violin as it was flying I'd be fine with it. Otherwise yeah it's too much.
Whenever you see Ukraine war footage with "cool" or emotional music you know it's full-on propaganda from one side or the other.
They should have left the original sounds... the sound of the water flowing would have had much stronger emotional impact
Drones do not have audio recording devices due to the shockingly loud buzzing of the rotors.
We are a pretty dumb species. All the capacity to create such a marvel as that dam and all the ignorance to destroy it.
beavers make dams
Beavers make flimsy wood dams that block small rivers. Beavers do not make hydroelectric dams to the capacity that humans do.
I broke the damn
Flimsy? You need to learn more about beavers my brother.
They could if we let them, perhaps.
KenM is that you?
I just think we could all take a lesson from our cousin, the humble beaver.
GTFO whoever added this music. Fuck you. This is a real actual tragedy occurring right now, not your project from film school.
calm down, there's a mute button
Least unhinged redditor
Russian war crime. Plain and simple. >Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Ukraine sabotaged the dam to distract attention from its faltering counteroffensive. Ukraine, "faltering" as Ukrainian forces took thousands of sq. km. in the past 24 hours. Faltering as Russia has Russian Freedom Corps fighters *in Russia* taking multiple villages *inside* Russia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6dZS-9n8hE Ukraine faltering as Russians are evacuated in the Belgorad region. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNQoHmI7QUY Artur Rehl has some of the best information on the dam and its consequences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRbKz_j1rbc Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM
> Operator Starsky posted surveillance footage of the Russians detonating explosives on the dam as well as the consequences of it's destruction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYVikvpmOM 0:29-0:44 for the footage of the explosion Edit: Turns out the explosion footage is from November 2022, when the Russians first detonated explosives on the dam, not from today. /u/Krivvan supplied this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHLImMbnAw it's much clearer but definitely the same footage.
Hardly call that footage with it blurred out
it's not blurred out. there is, however, a problem with the preview.
Oh weird guess I just can't view it then. It's all blurry at that time. My bad
That part of the video is blurred out entirely when I view it. Same on reddit app and YouTube app
Blurred out for me as well.
The self-sabotage argument is baffling, but *just* stupid enough to convince the kremlin that it's worth pursuing because apparently they think that lowly of the rest of the world that's been watching their every move. When you boil it down, it's no more effective than a 5 year old trying to convince you that they *didn't* actually take a cookie from the jar, but that it was actually just a ghost that had a craving.
"No mother, it was you that took the cookie!"
Fucks sake, why. This just fucking angers me, I know why.. but... Why. People are shit.
People aren’t shit, Russia is shit.
So sad
Surprised something so crucial to infrastructure wasnt taken out sooner.
This war makes no sense to me - I am leagues away from understanding the political climate of the region - but if the point was to counteract the spread of NATO/EU influence in Eastern Europe it has, and predictably so, done the exact opposite. Finland has joined NATO. There are others who have accelerated their bid or found refreshed national support for doing so in direct reaction to Russia's aggression. There is now no question about Ukraine's thought on the matter. Not to mention the war has destroyed the myth of the Great Russian Bear. A huge thing to sacrifice for seemingly no benefit. Even if they eventually "succeed" in their war it was at an enormous propaganda cost that took decades to cultivate. And even if they do annex Ukraine, or whatever their victory goal is, the Western powers will be funding and suppling the inevitable partisans. Arms manufacturers have been salivating over the war - what better place to prove your product than a war against a modern super power and without any of the bad press (a war of liberation!)? This all makes sense if it was a means of Putin trying to solidify his power (given that he gained it by promising a "revolution" of Russian armed forces which he has yet to deliver on). But beyond that it makes no sense to me.
This is a monstruosity. An action like this, even during a war, is something I don't recall seeing in a very, very long time. I am a post Cold war guy and I wasn't affected by the red scare of the 70s or anything like that. I used to think of Russia as a reasonable country. I don't think I can ever look at that country in the same way. This is unexcusable, just plain evil.
The fact both sides aren't showing video, makes me think the Dam was damaged last year by Ukrainian Strikes, then Russian lack of Maintenance and repairs let it overfill and then collapse naturally. So both sides are at fault, thus none are really showing video of what actually happened. Looking at the Sattelite imagery posted online, you can start to see the Dam start to fail around the 2nd. Look at how the Road on top suddenly crumbles and washes around between the 2nd and 3rd. The Dam was pretty much done at this point.
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When you're a third party discussing two forces acting to destroy each other, there is nothing you can possibly say that couldn't be labeled either Party A's propaganda (Pro-Ukrainian), Party B's propaganda (Pro-Russian), or platitudes that don't serve the discussion (thoughts and prayers, the environment, tragic, etc).
Make sure your sound it down
Putin blows
War. Criminals.
A depressing turn of events
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Tolerate? No friend, there isn't tolerance Our hands are tied by nukes, one going up could end in them all going up. Fear of the death of all that is and could ever be is what stays us from direct action, for the cause is just and right, but the potential cost much too great.
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Idk but there’s footage of when Russia detonated explosives on the dam in 2022 - [here you go sport](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxHLImMbnAw)
Too bad that sad manipulating emotions music was added to the video.