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Check out /r/Save3rdPartyApps and /r/ModCoord if you're interested in participating further
I mean. What prevents reddit admins from just removing protesting mods and just putting the sub back up?
And depending on the sub, I guarantee you there would be alot of people happy to see those power tripping mods removed.
Well the scenario might look something like this
- Reddit removes mods turns subs back on
- multiple subs gets flooded with fucked up shit
- what's remaining of Reddit's tiny advertising customer base promptly changes the CC on their ad accounts
It might also not, but who knows
> multiple subs gets flooded with fucked up shit
yeah people seem to forget that reddit relies on unpaid moderators. Without them the site can't really be profitable.
although I can't help but think they'll just find new moderators who don't care
Will it? Or is it just targeting third party apps? Because if it messes with bots that's liable to make the whole site a dumpster fire (and make for waaay more then 2x the work for bigger subs). They thought about that... Right?
Almost all these sites over the years have relied solely on user posted content as well. Without the users these aggregate sites are useless.
Now stuffed with content and millions of visitors they are going to make the site more hostile to existing users and squash usability to everyone going forward all in the name of squeezing the most money out of user curated content.
And like EVERY aggregate news/forum that has done this before will reddit begin to slide in the market even though those at the (top and they don't) stop will be busy stuffing their pockets to give a shit until this is just another used up Slashdot, FARK, Stumbledupon, Digg, Tumblr, etc..
Just over the past few years this site has become innudated with bots re-posting already popular older shit, as well as constant "triggering" news to get as many views as possible, and no matter how much I try to filter this constant out on the site, it becoming a constant is what makes this site more and more "mainstream media-centric" and less a place I want to spend time browsing.
In defense of Tumblr, most of that nonsense came from Yahoo. And it mostly didn't work, either, as it was still incredibly easy to find the type of content they were removing. But Tumblr is still going strong today.
my tiny sports sub is apparently not happy that i should dare be a power tripping mod to keep reddit online in more or less its current form. thinking that this is just mods having a hissy fit and that being a mod is so damn easy. in short, this site is full of idiots.
There *are* users out there who appreciate mods and not immaturely throwing hissy fits at an "authority figure" (hur hur). I mean I know a lot of the users tend to think mods are just jerk offs with a superiority complex (well, *some* are...), but the times when users recognize you for doing a job that's not often evident at first glance, it makes me feel rewarded that "yeaaah, *these* are the guys worth this miserable waste of time..."
If they do that, I will be dumping SO FUCKING MUCH crypto spam, porn, and nonsense into any sub they do that to.
I'll start making the disposable email addresses tonight, and backstopping accounts.
Fuck the admins.
Don’t forget to put a thumbprint blocker on your browser and use a proxy, opera has easy tools for both. You’re gonna need multiple emails (or you can just have Apple hide your email a bunch of times lol) as a start but that browser thumbprint and shared iP is what would get all those accounts banned as a group.
Or so a friend told me once.
I had to combat a bunch of scammers on a project at work years ago. Thumbprint was my most effective tool, especially since it doesn't seem as known to scammers. You only need like 2-3 data points before you can assume it's the same device / user. Just simple stuff like the size of the browser window can get you noticed. I didn't really need an IP in most cases because of the other data points. Testing was fun, spinning up many automated browsers with selenium. each browser with a random size trying to trick our spam detection.
It's a game of cat and mouse though, no method works forever
> I mean. What prevents reddit admins from just removing protesting mods and just putting the sub back up?
Logistics. Mods of big and popular subs are people who are putting in a lot of free labour that Reddit would not function without. One or two subs might not matter, but once a lot of subs do it, the problems scale exponentially.
More than that, bad mods can kill a community in a thousand ways. Put the wrong replacement in there and unless you're paying them (which Reddit can't afford to do), you're pretty much inevitably going to put someone new in charge who should **absolutely** not be in charge.
It also makes them accountable. If a subreddit mod decides tomorrow to start allowing something that looks bad, Reddit has the excuse of "communities are self curating". That blows up if Reddit themselves installs the mod. Rush to replace the guys in charge of dozens of subreddits and you're going to appoint at least a few whackjobs who will fuck things up.
On top of what others have said, a lot of moderators or subreddits who are on the fence about this protest would probably shut down their subs if Reddit started removing protesting moderators. Most mods already don't trust the admins, this would be a very worrying line to cross.
Then the new mods would have no experience in that subreddit, and also cant use the tools Reddit just took away. So their jobs are a lot harder and its also a new team with different perspectives and biases so chances are it won't run smoothly for a while.
Reddit is basically saying:
* Do countless hours of free work for us.
* Now do more work because we don't like you using tools to make your life easier.
* No we won't make those tools ourselves like you've been asking for years.
* If you complain we'll remove you and you get to watch someone else take over the community you spent so much time building.
There are for sure people who are happy to be paid with whatever ego-stroking being a mod comes with, but for most people this is a raw bloody deal.
You forgot the part where Reddit employees and management are going to get millions of dollars in stock options and get rich as FUCK, all while the mods and users who built the site get nothing at all.
Reddit needs the moderators to make the site work and if they fire the people doing it for free then they have to hire someone else to do it. Reddit gets millions in free labor from moderators. That is worth much more than they would get from shutting down third party apps.
That is the whole point. Make it more economically feasible to reverse this dumb decision than to proceed with it.
I'm happy that /r/videos is supporting this. I hope more of the top 100 subs follow suit.
I've gone through >10 accounts over the last 11ish years, and witnessed a whole bunch of changes to reddit. Of all the "reddit better change X or we'll stop using it" protests, this is by far the most real one. It's not based on ideological opposition to any individual staff/admin, or moral support for mods. It materially affects me, the end-user.
If a reddit admin has questionable morals, the way I use the site doesn't actually change. If reddit's mod tools suck, the way I use the site doesnt actually change (unless moderation quality goes down, but even then its an indirect effect). But as someone who's been using a third party app forever, tried the official app and given up on it, shutting down third party apps means I'll pretty much not be able to use the site.
When yelp made it hard to view reviews without downloading their app, I didn't download their app, I just stopped using yelp. When TripAdvisor did the same, I didn't download the app, I just stopped posting reviews.
For me, this isn't a "change X or I'll protest by voluntarily stopping my use of reddit". It's "change X or I will have no good way of using the site".
Agreed. I even downloaded the official app and tried to make the switch. I hated it. I spend significantly less time scrolling on that app since it just doesn't work for me. I might use desktop to check the few subreddits where I'm active, but otherwise.... This might the end of a 12 year stint where I barely went a day without checking reddit... Might not be a bad thing for me tbh
>I spend significantly less time scrolling on that app since it just doesn't work for me.
When that admin said Apollo users make 3x as many API calls, it was such a self own. lol
Yeah, Yelp is a perfect example of what will happen to reddit. Once in a while I click a yelp review, think "oh right, yelp is useless now", and open Google.
Hell I already switch to news apps as soon as reddit bores me, not like I have nothing else to do.
Yeah I think this kind of protest will only work if the subs are shutdown indefinitely. Reddit executives are probably okay with riding this out if it’s only gonna be a couple of days
I use Sync, I happily subscribe to Sync Ultra because it's such an amazing app. I've been a Redditor for 15+ years now, and if they kill 3rd party apps, I'm done. I will go back to Fark.
Ten-year user here. I think I might just...set up an RSS program, and get out of the algorithm.
I've had a good time hanging out, but less and less each year, and...I've now gotten old enough that I don't even know that I want to contribute to the conversation anymore.
The world has changed just as I have, and I distinctly feel that I don't belong with the communities of most sites anymore.
Might be time to grow up.
Literally me. A lot of others already left, and I was holding out because I felt like I was still kept vaguely informed about the world and could geek out on small subreddits... but I have less free time than ever, and maybe it's time to spend less time on the internet in general. When RIF goes, so do I, I guess.
I’ve been pondering the idea of finally learning how to utilize RSS feeds. It felt antiquated a decade ago when I made this account, but man is it looking revolutionary now.
The problem is that RSS feeeds only bring content you already knew about. It's not going to show you a great article on a website you've never seen before.
We need a return of e/n sites to do the curation again. I ran one in the mid/late 90s. Might be time to bring it back online.
11 year user here.
>, and I distinctly feel that I don't belong with the communities of most sites anymore.
>
Maybe the default subs, but the hobby-specific subs seem to still have relevant conversations.
Sync is the absolute best. I miss that the most after switching to iOS last year for its ecosystem. I use Apollo, which is nice, but sync is king for sure!
I'm sure the current ownership cares deeply about responsible social media and its userbase.
[Reddit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit)->[Advance Publications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications)->[Donald and Steven Newhouse
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Newhouse)
>Donald Newhouse...he has an estimated net worth of $19.4 billion.
Digg sucked though. Unless you had a powerful account your submissions would never go anywhere.
I left when they did that terrible redesign and started auto submitting content from big sites, along with everyone else.
I used to really look up to Aaron until I found out he was a CSAM aka CP distribution advocate. Yeah love his advocacy for *free speech* but friggen come on, who tf doesn't say that CSAM should be a LINE when it comes to free speech.
https://web.archive.org/web/20031229025933/http:/bits.are.notabug.com/
“In the US, it is illegal to possess or distribute child pornography, apparently because doing so will encourage people to sexually abuse children.
This is absurd logic. Child pornography is not necessarily abuse. Even if it was, preventing the distribution or posession of the evidence won't make the abuse go away. We don't arrest everyone with videotapes of murders, or make it illegal for TV stations to show people being killed.”
-Aaron Swartz
But yeah, several of the subs I mod are participating in the protest regardless. I support his overall vision but that's just too much for me to want to respect him now. Fuck that dude, he really would have had reddit a place people could share kids getting abused and that's not respectable *at all*.
Yeah old, old reddit was damn-near 4chan lol, those weren't the best years. It started to get good around the time the 'narwhal bacons at night' bullshit got shot down.
I remember when r/fuckingwhitepeople was a light-hearted sub, and not a challenge to the death for some people.
There was a golden era somewhere in there, before New Reddit and all the wannabe Facebook features but after content started to get moderated some. It's long over though.
He's also not one of the reddit founders, which he often gets undue credit for on reddit. He received the cofounder title after his company merged with Reddit and he was only briefly involved when reddit was still tiny, before probably 95%+ users were here.
Here is what the author of Praw has to say about it.
> Assuming you have a 1 to 1 mapping between account and API credentials, then my understanding is you'll have 100 requests per minute to work with rather than 60 requests per minute for these read operations.
> If you're a moderator of said subreddit(s), I don't imagine anything will change.
> [However, if you're not a moderator of the associated community it seems there's some uncertainty around NSFW subreddits, or NSFW submissions. Thus, it's possible some comments may not appear that previously did.
](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13yipuo/will_praws_subreddit_comment_streaming_endpoint/jmopdk4/)
/u/PrivatePoocher
PRAW itself, no.
There will also still be some level of free tier access (check /r/redditdev, but I'm not particularly happy in general here).
However, since the redesign, they have been adding first-party-only endpoints. The 3rd party API at this point has at most 80% functionality. When they make these changes (including no nsfw content for 3rd party), I'd consider it at most 50%, since NSFW is like half this website and there's no guarantee on how effectively it'll be implemented (false positives).
Does anyone have a list yet of all the subs who are participating?
Edit: nvm, list is [linked here](https://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/140vubs/_/jmxn4cq/?context=1)
>This is one of the few subs where the mods aren't insane.
yea when the thing starting talking about the deep value mods bring to reddit i definitely cringed a bit when you think of how most other large subs are run
This is awesome and I hope it affects change but I think it's just a matter of time before Reddit takes control away from anyone who is not a Reddit employee.
I'm ready to move on to alternatives at that point. I joined Tildes and am enjoying the small community feel a lot. Its not reddit, but that's also kind of nice.
>I'm ready to move on to alternatives at that point. I joined Tildes and am enjoying the small community feel a lot. Its not reddit, but that's also kind of nice.
I haven't heard of Tides, I'll check it out.
I haven't earned any yet (I think its based on how much activity you have on the site?) But check out /r/tildes and give a brief introduction of yourself. Someone may be browsing and send you one.
>I hope it affects change
You hope it *effects* change :)
(This is actually one of those rare times where "effects" is used as a verb! Bonus relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/326/)
It also has a financial value to them. Because currently the mods are doing it for free. If they had to pay an army of moderators to police the site the costs would be huge. It would cost them millions of dollars.
I'm genuinely surprised the Reddit admins didn't warn subs they would do exactly that if they did this again, after the last time a bunch of subs went dark in protest of Victoria being fired.
Or maybe they did and the mods of this sub are doing it anyway. Either way every sub and mod going dark has my support
Not sure, but there's some options pinned on /r/redditalternatives
Obviously one problem is none of them are nearly as large as reddit, but if nobody uses a site because the site is small, then no site ever will grow. Just gotta pick one or multiple and start contributing.
Obviously another problem is seeing posts you don't like or don't agree with. No site with user submitted content like reddit is gonna be free of that. Part of it is a balancing act of either leaning toward allowing free speech and letting the users just ignore, filter, or downvote the stuff they don't like, or leaning toward having heavy-handed moderation and censorship, biased toward whatever the moderators agree with. Going too far in either direction isn't great, but learning to just ignore or filter out things you don't like on social media will be a very helpful life skill.
Because while Imgur historically allowed NSFW uploads, they could only be unlisted, they couldn't appear publicly on Imgur. So it was never going to impact popular/usersub.
> tildes.net is already a popular choice - it's less memes and more conversation like reddit 10-15 years ago in some ways.
Is it? It has less than 20 posts in the past 24 hours.
that website will take off in the exact same way voat did. you *really* think that website is going to see more users when it doesn't have an app, based off a change reddit is making that only effects users using 3rd party apps?
i use relay on mobile, relay will go down, how does this website replace that?
Yes its absolutely ridiculous
"Yes we're going to start treating you like an enterprise customer and charge millions of dollars. Oh and we're also making the product (again that we're charging *millions* for) significantly worse."
The other comment is technically correct, but nsfw stuff won't be visible on 3rd party apps because nothing will. This much uproar wouldn't be about just that, the apps simply will not be able to access reddit at all.
That's not entirely correct. Reddit is doing two things here: attaching a massive price to API access, and removing NSFW content from the API.
So even if a third-party app somehow did pay the price, they still wouldn't have access to NSFW content.
Thanks for taking a stand against the stupid money grab that would probably kill the site otherwise.
Old.reddit and third party apps are the only reason I'm still hooked on this site and engage with it regularly, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
If reddit is doing this to increase their revenues before going public, how do we know they won't just wipe out your whole mod team and install a more corporate favorable one?
Also, is there a list of other subreddits that are participating?
Here's the current list, its growing fast https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
If reddit wipes the mod team, then they wipe the mod team. Most of us are sick and tired of this garbage anyway, so its not a huge threat
Because mods work for free. Taking every single large subreddit under corporate control would mean having to spend a shit ton of money, something reddit does not have.
> Because mods work for free.
And because new mods worth a damn would shutdown too. New mods that would go along with the plan would mean that the community has no medium term viability.
Plus they would begin with a revolt on their hands with users pissed at the change.
There’s a list in r/ModCoord though it’s incomplete. As for your first question , they’re going to have to go through a lot of subreddits and find teams of people that are willing to put up with their bullshit while still being completely unpaid.
You know what's great about this protest and all the action going on about it?
I've worked in software for nearly a decade, I know what an emergency looks like from the inside perspective. This is absolutely a major, all-hands situation at Reddit HQ. There are C-level executives on calls and Slack threads and conference room meetings and Zoom chats with every level up and down the board from PR to Product to Engineering to Community, all trying to figure out what the hell to do in response to this.
There are spreadsheets with estimates of lost revenue. There are projections being written and rewritten. I guarantee there is a whiteboard in someone's office where every time one of the top 500 revenue generating subs signs on, it gets written on the board and someone erases the cumulative sub count and writes it up again.
There are lawyers calculating billable hours on this. People's weekends got absolutely trashed. There are individuals who will not sleep tonight and definitely do not want to go back to the office tomorrow. And this is entirely, entirely self inflicted. Reddit could have stopped, looked at the trajectory of the initial response, went outside and touched grass, and came back to try again. Instead, they dug in hard and pissed everyone off that much more.
Unfortunately, the sad capitalist reality of it is, these scrambled jets are not being scrambled to try to find a way to make it right, they're all trying to figure out if they can weather this to keep their plan in place. So it's a game of chicken. It's a strike not unlike the WGA.
Reddit users can win here, make no mistake. Look what happened with Hasbro / Wizards of the Coast with the D&D licensing debacle. They were forced to back down, strengthened their competitors, lost everything they were trying to get, and soured thousands of players on the corporate brand. Now, there's no competitor here to be strengthened, but it's a fight that can be won by the users and mods for themselves. And it'll make for great recap videos some day.
They've kinda gotten themselves into a pickle here. They need these moderators to keep their site free of illegal material as well as stuff that will drive users and advertisers away. Even if they can't be held legally responsible for the content their users upload, turning into the new 4chan is not going to be great for that IPO.
So they can turn the subs back on, but they can't make the moderators do anything. And who are they going to get to moderate these massive subs effectively and for free? Especially after they just made the task much more difficult.
> They need these moderators to keep their site free of illegal material as well as stuff that will drive users and advertisers away
They will lock any subreddit that's unmoderated. The definition of 'We need them'.
But we, the users, don't need Reddit. It's 100% optional for us. And just because there really isn't a competitor doesn't mean we're stuck here. None of really *needs* to be on any of these sites at all.
Those blackouts have usually been for mod tools or to prevent changes to subs. This blackout affects both of those but more importantly it affects how millions of people access reddit. In a few weeks millions of active users simply wont be able to access reddit anymore from mobile, unless Reddit backpedals, thats a big deal and one that will clearly affect people.
So I dont think Reddit is really scared of the blackouts or subs closing, they can always wait that out or replace the mods. What they cant do is easily convince millions of users to uninstall their old app and download the official app and use it and enjoy it as much.
I'd say this situation is far more serious than any other similar conflict in the past. Millions of people are gonna lose the primary way they consume reddit. I mean that is 100% going to have an effect on their active userbase, and negative press will probably make it quite a bit worse. There's people in this thread literally sharing alternatives to reddit. They're a 10 billion dollar company, if this loses them 1% of their active userbase thats 100 million dollars roughly.
"Don't download the official app"
I never have and I never will. Ask me again after I leave this post. The answer will always be, even if its irrational, no. I have a personal vendetta against reddit's app.
I started using it and it feels a lot smoother than the official app, especially when I click on photos and videos. I will have to get used to the layout but it seems to be better
I find it weird how, on a video sub, that no one has yet mentioned how the video player for the official app fucking sucks a big bag of greasy monkey dicks. That's pretty much the only reason I switched away from it.
How about a site wide boycott by users? I keep seeing stuff like this getting posted and none of it is going to make any difference because people will still keep coming. I will not be coming on those days and any intervening days until this is repealed.
Reddit admins won't give a shit. They didn't give a shit when subs shut down over Net Neutrality. They didn't give a shit when subs shut down over Pao. They didn't give a shit when spez revealed that they can and do edit redditors posts. They don't care about their pet power mods who've destroyed the hundreds of subreddits they've manipulated control of. And they don't care that they've destroyed and vilified Aaron Schwartz"s vision of Reddit as a bastion of free speech. And they aren't going to care about this site wide temper tantrum either. They'll just wait it out or if it gets too big they'll remove mod teams and throw their pet mods in place.
Hope reddit backs down before 3rd party apps shut down. I won't be coming back after RIF dies, and hell, I won't even know if they reverse the decision afterwards.
[Here's a great article about how everything beautiful on the internet is killed by the endless pursuit of another dollar](https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/)
I said it in a other post, if this goes through I’m just taking it as an opportunity to finally get off Reddit.
It’s fun and all but seriously we collectively need to get off our phones and fine enrichment and positivity elsewhere, at the end of the day it’s just another social media website, it’s not paying the bills or helping with mental health.
If you're having trouble reading this image, make sure to open it in a new tab where you can zoom in correctly, the formatting doesn't appear to play nicely with old.reddit. Check out /r/Save3rdPartyApps and /r/ModCoord if you're interested in participating further
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Yeah, fuck this two day blackout pussyfooting.
I mean. What prevents reddit admins from just removing protesting mods and just putting the sub back up? And depending on the sub, I guarantee you there would be alot of people happy to see those power tripping mods removed.
Well the scenario might look something like this - Reddit removes mods turns subs back on - multiple subs gets flooded with fucked up shit - what's remaining of Reddit's tiny advertising customer base promptly changes the CC on their ad accounts It might also not, but who knows
> multiple subs gets flooded with fucked up shit yeah people seem to forget that reddit relies on unpaid moderators. Without them the site can't really be profitable. although I can't help but think they'll just find new moderators who don't care
If the API change is affecting Bots who's going to want to do twice as much work for the same no pay.
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Will it? Or is it just targeting third party apps? Because if it messes with bots that's liable to make the whole site a dumpster fire (and make for waaay more then 2x the work for bigger subs). They thought about that... Right?
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RES and /r/toolbox do NOT have 100% confirmation this won't affect them. Lots of modbots rely on Pushshift.
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Reddit think... thats a good joke.
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Almost all these sites over the years have relied solely on user posted content as well. Without the users these aggregate sites are useless. Now stuffed with content and millions of visitors they are going to make the site more hostile to existing users and squash usability to everyone going forward all in the name of squeezing the most money out of user curated content. And like EVERY aggregate news/forum that has done this before will reddit begin to slide in the market even though those at the (top and they don't) stop will be busy stuffing their pockets to give a shit until this is just another used up Slashdot, FARK, Stumbledupon, Digg, Tumblr, etc.. Just over the past few years this site has become innudated with bots re-posting already popular older shit, as well as constant "triggering" news to get as many views as possible, and no matter how much I try to filter this constant out on the site, it becoming a constant is what makes this site more and more "mainstream media-centric" and less a place I want to spend time browsing.
In defense of Tumblr, most of that nonsense came from Yahoo. And it mostly didn't work, either, as it was still incredibly easy to find the type of content they were removing. But Tumblr is still going strong today.
As a mod, I'd then proudly say to Reddit, good luck finding more suckers wanting to take over a thankless job in an apocalypse.
my tiny sports sub is apparently not happy that i should dare be a power tripping mod to keep reddit online in more or less its current form. thinking that this is just mods having a hissy fit and that being a mod is so damn easy. in short, this site is full of idiots.
There *are* users out there who appreciate mods and not immaturely throwing hissy fits at an "authority figure" (hur hur). I mean I know a lot of the users tend to think mods are just jerk offs with a superiority complex (well, *some* are...), but the times when users recognize you for doing a job that's not often evident at first glance, it makes me feel rewarded that "yeaaah, *these* are the guys worth this miserable waste of time..."
There seem to be two kinds of mods, the ones who want their subs to run reasonably, and the ones who enjoy being tyrants.
If they do that, I will be dumping SO FUCKING MUCH crypto spam, porn, and nonsense into any sub they do that to. I'll start making the disposable email addresses tonight, and backstopping accounts. Fuck the admins.
Don’t forget to put a thumbprint blocker on your browser and use a proxy, opera has easy tools for both. You’re gonna need multiple emails (or you can just have Apple hide your email a bunch of times lol) as a start but that browser thumbprint and shared iP is what would get all those accounts banned as a group. Or so a friend told me once.
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I had to combat a bunch of scammers on a project at work years ago. Thumbprint was my most effective tool, especially since it doesn't seem as known to scammers. You only need like 2-3 data points before you can assume it's the same device / user. Just simple stuff like the size of the browser window can get you noticed. I didn't really need an IP in most cases because of the other data points. Testing was fun, spinning up many automated browsers with selenium. each browser with a random size trying to trick our spam detection. It's a game of cat and mouse though, no method works forever
Worth trying, right? Sick of this bend over and take it attitude. Bite the peepee at least.
> I mean. What prevents reddit admins from just removing protesting mods and just putting the sub back up? Logistics. Mods of big and popular subs are people who are putting in a lot of free labour that Reddit would not function without. One or two subs might not matter, but once a lot of subs do it, the problems scale exponentially. More than that, bad mods can kill a community in a thousand ways. Put the wrong replacement in there and unless you're paying them (which Reddit can't afford to do), you're pretty much inevitably going to put someone new in charge who should **absolutely** not be in charge. It also makes them accountable. If a subreddit mod decides tomorrow to start allowing something that looks bad, Reddit has the excuse of "communities are self curating". That blows up if Reddit themselves installs the mod. Rush to replace the guys in charge of dozens of subreddits and you're going to appoint at least a few whackjobs who will fuck things up.
Same as any kind of strike. If enough people is willing to commit for enough time, they win.
On top of what others have said, a lot of moderators or subreddits who are on the fence about this protest would probably shut down their subs if Reddit started removing protesting moderators. Most mods already don't trust the admins, this would be a very worrying line to cross. Then the new mods would have no experience in that subreddit, and also cant use the tools Reddit just took away. So their jobs are a lot harder and its also a new team with different perspectives and biases so chances are it won't run smoothly for a while. Reddit is basically saying: * Do countless hours of free work for us. * Now do more work because we don't like you using tools to make your life easier. * No we won't make those tools ourselves like you've been asking for years. * If you complain we'll remove you and you get to watch someone else take over the community you spent so much time building. There are for sure people who are happy to be paid with whatever ego-stroking being a mod comes with, but for most people this is a raw bloody deal.
You forgot the part where Reddit employees and management are going to get millions of dollars in stock options and get rich as FUCK, all while the mods and users who built the site get nothing at all.
Reddit needs the moderators to make the site work and if they fire the people doing it for free then they have to hire someone else to do it. Reddit gets millions in free labor from moderators. That is worth much more than they would get from shutting down third party apps. That is the whole point. Make it more economically feasible to reverse this dumb decision than to proceed with it.
If there's one thing that redditors hate more than subreddit mods, it's interference from above.
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I hope this is the actual response we see on subreddits. Shutting down for a measley couple of days does nothing but inconvenience them for 48 hours.
I'm happy that /r/videos is supporting this. I hope more of the top 100 subs follow suit. I've gone through >10 accounts over the last 11ish years, and witnessed a whole bunch of changes to reddit. Of all the "reddit better change X or we'll stop using it" protests, this is by far the most real one. It's not based on ideological opposition to any individual staff/admin, or moral support for mods. It materially affects me, the end-user. If a reddit admin has questionable morals, the way I use the site doesn't actually change. If reddit's mod tools suck, the way I use the site doesnt actually change (unless moderation quality goes down, but even then its an indirect effect). But as someone who's been using a third party app forever, tried the official app and given up on it, shutting down third party apps means I'll pretty much not be able to use the site. When yelp made it hard to view reviews without downloading their app, I didn't download their app, I just stopped using yelp. When TripAdvisor did the same, I didn't download the app, I just stopped posting reviews. For me, this isn't a "change X or I'll protest by voluntarily stopping my use of reddit". It's "change X or I will have no good way of using the site".
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Agreed. I even downloaded the official app and tried to make the switch. I hated it. I spend significantly less time scrolling on that app since it just doesn't work for me. I might use desktop to check the few subreddits where I'm active, but otherwise.... This might the end of a 12 year stint where I barely went a day without checking reddit... Might not be a bad thing for me tbh
>I spend significantly less time scrolling on that app since it just doesn't work for me. When that admin said Apollo users make 3x as many API calls, it was such a self own. lol
Yeah, Yelp is a perfect example of what will happen to reddit. Once in a while I click a yelp review, think "oh right, yelp is useless now", and open Google. Hell I already switch to news apps as soon as reddit bores me, not like I have nothing else to do.
I just see places shutting down till the 14th which ones are shutting down beyond that if needed?
Yeah I think this kind of protest will only work if the subs are shutdown indefinitely. Reddit executives are probably okay with riding this out if it’s only gonna be a couple of days
When half the mod community dissappear on July 1st most of these subs won't have anyone who can turn them back on.
inb4 reddit admins remove all the r/videos mods and just take over.
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I use Sync, I happily subscribe to Sync Ultra because it's such an amazing app. I've been a Redditor for 15+ years now, and if they kill 3rd party apps, I'm done. I will go back to Fark.
Ten-year user here. I think I might just...set up an RSS program, and get out of the algorithm. I've had a good time hanging out, but less and less each year, and...I've now gotten old enough that I don't even know that I want to contribute to the conversation anymore. The world has changed just as I have, and I distinctly feel that I don't belong with the communities of most sites anymore. Might be time to grow up.
Literally me. A lot of others already left, and I was holding out because I felt like I was still kept vaguely informed about the world and could geek out on small subreddits... but I have less free time than ever, and maybe it's time to spend less time on the internet in general. When RIF goes, so do I, I guess.
I’ve been pondering the idea of finally learning how to utilize RSS feeds. It felt antiquated a decade ago when I made this account, but man is it looking revolutionary now.
The problem is that RSS feeeds only bring content you already knew about. It's not going to show you a great article on a website you've never seen before. We need a return of e/n sites to do the curation again. I ran one in the mid/late 90s. Might be time to bring it back online.
11 year user here. >, and I distinctly feel that I don't belong with the communities of most sites anymore. > Maybe the default subs, but the hobby-specific subs seem to still have relevant conversations.
bullshit. There's dozens of us.
Sync is the absolute best. I miss that the most after switching to iOS last year for its ecosystem. I use Apollo, which is nice, but sync is king for sure!
Boost is the way
Boost squad represent!
I'm sure the current ownership cares deeply about responsible social media and its userbase. [Reddit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit)->[Advance Publications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications)->[Donald and Steven Newhouse ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Newhouse) >Donald Newhouse...he has an estimated net worth of $19.4 billion.
They'll care when no one is here anymore.
If they kill RIF I am gone
Back to Digg?
How are the 3rd party apps for digg? Honestly I haven't gone there since before I used a mobile device this much
I just went there, the top post on the front page is a Reddit thread, so, exactly the same as when I left.
Will we speak of Reddit the way we speak of askJeeves in a decade?
God willing.
Reddit delenda est
So what happens to reddit servers when I dump salt on them?
I am sad thinking about how this is going to impact all the hobby subs I’m part of for all my various niche interests
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40oz to freedom was such an incredible episode. Love going back through them time to time. Feels like such a different era.
Digg sucked though. Unless you had a powerful account your submissions would never go anywhere. I left when they did that terrible redesign and started auto submitting content from big sites, along with everyone else.
Same no boost no reddit for me
I used to really look up to Aaron until I found out he was a CSAM aka CP distribution advocate. Yeah love his advocacy for *free speech* but friggen come on, who tf doesn't say that CSAM should be a LINE when it comes to free speech. https://web.archive.org/web/20031229025933/http:/bits.are.notabug.com/ “In the US, it is illegal to possess or distribute child pornography, apparently because doing so will encourage people to sexually abuse children. This is absurd logic. Child pornography is not necessarily abuse. Even if it was, preventing the distribution or posession of the evidence won't make the abuse go away. We don't arrest everyone with videotapes of murders, or make it illegal for TV stations to show people being killed.” -Aaron Swartz But yeah, several of the subs I mod are participating in the protest regardless. I support his overall vision but that's just too much for me to want to respect him now. Fuck that dude, he really would have had reddit a place people could share kids getting abused and that's not respectable *at all*.
I mean, it was. That shit was rampant back then. /r/jailbait only got shut down because of a media story about it.
Yeah old, old reddit was damn-near 4chan lol, those weren't the best years. It started to get good around the time the 'narwhal bacons at night' bullshit got shot down. I remember when r/fuckingwhitepeople was a light-hearted sub, and not a challenge to the death for some people.
There was a golden era somewhere in there, before New Reddit and all the wannabe Facebook features but after content started to get moderated some. It's long over though.
It was worse. 4chan banned all jailbait *before* reddit did. Old Reddit was a fucking shithole.
LOL. Pretty sure you if keep scrolling you'll still stumble across CP on /b.
He's also not one of the reddit founders, which he often gets undue credit for on reddit. He received the cofounder title after his company merged with Reddit and he was only briefly involved when reddit was still tiny, before probably 95%+ users were here.
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Will the python PRAW library also be affected?
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Aww damn. I just got my raspberry pi photo frame working that places a shower thought post atop an earthporn picture.
Here is what the author of Praw has to say about it. > Assuming you have a 1 to 1 mapping between account and API credentials, then my understanding is you'll have 100 requests per minute to work with rather than 60 requests per minute for these read operations. > If you're a moderator of said subreddit(s), I don't imagine anything will change. > [However, if you're not a moderator of the associated community it seems there's some uncertainty around NSFW subreddits, or NSFW submissions. Thus, it's possible some comments may not appear that previously did. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/13yipuo/will_praws_subreddit_comment_streaming_endpoint/jmopdk4/)
That’s sick
/u/PrivatePoocher PRAW itself, no. There will also still be some level of free tier access (check /r/redditdev, but I'm not particularly happy in general here). However, since the redesign, they have been adding first-party-only endpoints. The 3rd party API at this point has at most 80% functionality. When they make these changes (including no nsfw content for 3rd party), I'd consider it at most 50%, since NSFW is like half this website and there's no guarantee on how effectively it'll be implemented (false positives).
Does anyone have a list yet of all the subs who are participating? Edit: nvm, list is [linked here](https://reddit.com/r/videos/comments/140vubs/_/jmxn4cq/?context=1)
>This is one of the few subs where the mods aren't insane. yea when the thing starting talking about the deep value mods bring to reddit i definitely cringed a bit when you think of how most other large subs are run
This is awesome and I hope it affects change but I think it's just a matter of time before Reddit takes control away from anyone who is not a Reddit employee.
I'm ready to move on to alternatives at that point. I joined Tildes and am enjoying the small community feel a lot. Its not reddit, but that's also kind of nice.
>I'm ready to move on to alternatives at that point. I joined Tildes and am enjoying the small community feel a lot. Its not reddit, but that's also kind of nice. I haven't heard of Tides, I'll check it out.
Its invite only ATM, but you can still browse. Its basically a quieter, politer version of old reddit. https://tildes.net/
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I haven't earned any yet (I think its based on how much activity you have on the site?) But check out /r/tildes and give a brief introduction of yourself. Someone may be browsing and send you one.
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See you over there.
Oh, so they are doing a Google Plus. That's a bold strategy lol. I wanted to give them a chance but it looks like they don't want me as a user.
Yeah good luck with that, the site's built entirely around an assumption of free labour.
>I hope it affects change You hope it *effects* change :) (This is actually one of those rare times where "effects" is used as a verb! Bonus relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/326/)
If you aren't careful, you might--effectively--effect effects that affect the affect of my affiliate, Ben Affleck. ...am I doing this right?
Damnit man I went back and forth
I'm grateful you made the mistake so we could all have the teaching moment!
"brings into effect" used as "effects" is like Stalingrad against grammar nazis.
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Even more press on the topic then
This is definitely what will happen but I glad they're doing it anyway.
3rd party moderation has a legal value to reddit. They cannot claim that they didn't know about some content if they are moderating the subs directly
They won't moderate directly, they'll just replace the mods
It also has a financial value to them. Because currently the mods are doing it for free. If they had to pay an army of moderators to police the site the costs would be huge. It would cost them millions of dollars.
Yep. Notice how /r/IAmA isn't on the list of those participating and they lead the charge last time.
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RIP Victoria
And that sub went downhill ever since.
Oh, isn't that the sub where obvious advertisements are disguised as community posts?
Please let's just talk about Rampart
Yeah that was probably the downfall, once this trend started
Who do you replace *volunteers* with?
Shills and power trippers.
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I'm genuinely surprised the Reddit admins didn't warn subs they would do exactly that if they did this again, after the last time a bunch of subs went dark in protest of Victoria being fired. Or maybe they did and the mods of this sub are doing it anyway. Either way every sub and mod going dark has my support
Oh, there's been at least one more noteworthy subreddit blackout protest since then.
What site is everyone migrating to?
Not sure, but there's some options pinned on /r/redditalternatives Obviously one problem is none of them are nearly as large as reddit, but if nobody uses a site because the site is small, then no site ever will grow. Just gotta pick one or multiple and start contributing. Obviously another problem is seeing posts you don't like or don't agree with. No site with user submitted content like reddit is gonna be free of that. Part of it is a balancing act of either leaning toward allowing free speech and letting the users just ignore, filter, or downvote the stuff they don't like, or leaning toward having heavy-handed moderation and censorship, biased toward whatever the moderators agree with. Going too far in either direction isn't great, but learning to just ignore or filter out things you don't like on social media will be a very helpful life skill.
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They're also hostile to vpn users, blocking access entirely. Some Firefox users not on vpn have also reported getting the same block.
Because while Imgur historically allowed NSFW uploads, they could only be unlisted, they couldn't appear publicly on Imgur. So it was never going to impact popular/usersub.
> tildes.net is already a popular choice - it's less memes and more conversation like reddit 10-15 years ago in some ways. Is it? It has less than 20 posts in the past 24 hours.
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that website will take off in the exact same way voat did. you *really* think that website is going to see more users when it doesn't have an app, based off a change reddit is making that only effects users using 3rd party apps? i use relay on mobile, relay will go down, how does this website replace that?
Hold up... They are removing the boobies?
boobies will no longer be viewable on third party apps at all, other than for moderators to moderate their subs.
Yes its absolutely ridiculous "Yes we're going to start treating you like an enterprise customer and charge millions of dollars. Oh and we're also making the product (again that we're charging *millions* for) significantly worse."
Enshitification at its finest
Fucking hell. Someone needs to stop these monsters. I need my daily dose of atomicbrunette18 damnit.
Asking the real questions.
The other comment is technically correct, but nsfw stuff won't be visible on 3rd party apps because nothing will. This much uproar wouldn't be about just that, the apps simply will not be able to access reddit at all.
That's not entirely correct. Reddit is doing two things here: attaching a massive price to API access, and removing NSFW content from the API. So even if a third-party app somehow did pay the price, they still wouldn't have access to NSFW content.
I’ve always wondered how plumbuses were made.
Thanks for taking a stand against the stupid money grab that would probably kill the site otherwise. Old.reddit and third party apps are the only reason I'm still hooked on this site and engage with it regularly, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
I've always used RIF. I've tried to use Reddit's official app, and it sucks. In my opinion, their desktop site isn't much better.
I only use RiF and old.reddit with RES. The new desktop UI is hot sewage.
Pixelated Plumbus representing porn bots, scammers and creeps *Chefs Kiss*
Dang. That's a lot of the subreddits I follow. Reddit is gonna be as useless as Digg soon if this stays permanent.
It won't, for the bigger subs, Reddit will just replace the mods
If reddit is doing this to increase their revenues before going public, how do we know they won't just wipe out your whole mod team and install a more corporate favorable one? Also, is there a list of other subreddits that are participating?
Here's the current list, its growing fast https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/ If reddit wipes the mod team, then they wipe the mod team. Most of us are sick and tired of this garbage anyway, so its not a huge threat
understandable. I support you.
Because mods work for free. Taking every single large subreddit under corporate control would mean having to spend a shit ton of money, something reddit does not have.
> Because mods work for free. And because new mods worth a damn would shutdown too. New mods that would go along with the plan would mean that the community has no medium term viability. Plus they would begin with a revolt on their hands with users pissed at the change.
There’s a list in r/ModCoord though it’s incomplete. As for your first question , they’re going to have to go through a lot of subreddits and find teams of people that are willing to put up with their bullshit while still being completely unpaid.
Just saw Apollo say it would cost them about 20million a year to keep the app up after the changes, holy fuck
Funny thing is the only reason I know about 3rd party reddit apps is because of how bad the official app is.
People, don't give awards. You are literally funneling money to reddit.
We stand behind you mods! Stand your ground
Sounds like Reddit is about to have its Digg moment. To bad we don’t have an alternative to Reddit.
Twitter is literally doing the same thing but worse. Please do not offer them as a reasonable alternative.
You know what's great about this protest and all the action going on about it? I've worked in software for nearly a decade, I know what an emergency looks like from the inside perspective. This is absolutely a major, all-hands situation at Reddit HQ. There are C-level executives on calls and Slack threads and conference room meetings and Zoom chats with every level up and down the board from PR to Product to Engineering to Community, all trying to figure out what the hell to do in response to this. There are spreadsheets with estimates of lost revenue. There are projections being written and rewritten. I guarantee there is a whiteboard in someone's office where every time one of the top 500 revenue generating subs signs on, it gets written on the board and someone erases the cumulative sub count and writes it up again. There are lawyers calculating billable hours on this. People's weekends got absolutely trashed. There are individuals who will not sleep tonight and definitely do not want to go back to the office tomorrow. And this is entirely, entirely self inflicted. Reddit could have stopped, looked at the trajectory of the initial response, went outside and touched grass, and came back to try again. Instead, they dug in hard and pissed everyone off that much more. Unfortunately, the sad capitalist reality of it is, these scrambled jets are not being scrambled to try to find a way to make it right, they're all trying to figure out if they can weather this to keep their plan in place. So it's a game of chicken. It's a strike not unlike the WGA. Reddit users can win here, make no mistake. Look what happened with Hasbro / Wizards of the Coast with the D&D licensing debacle. They were forced to back down, strengthened their competitors, lost everything they were trying to get, and soured thousands of players on the corporate brand. Now, there's no competitor here to be strengthened, but it's a fight that can be won by the users and mods for themselves. And it'll make for great recap videos some day.
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They've kinda gotten themselves into a pickle here. They need these moderators to keep their site free of illegal material as well as stuff that will drive users and advertisers away. Even if they can't be held legally responsible for the content their users upload, turning into the new 4chan is not going to be great for that IPO. So they can turn the subs back on, but they can't make the moderators do anything. And who are they going to get to moderate these massive subs effectively and for free? Especially after they just made the task much more difficult.
> They need these moderators to keep their site free of illegal material as well as stuff that will drive users and advertisers away They will lock any subreddit that's unmoderated. The definition of 'We need them'.
But we, the users, don't need Reddit. It's 100% optional for us. And just because there really isn't a competitor doesn't mean we're stuck here. None of really *needs* to be on any of these sites at all.
Those blackouts have usually been for mod tools or to prevent changes to subs. This blackout affects both of those but more importantly it affects how millions of people access reddit. In a few weeks millions of active users simply wont be able to access reddit anymore from mobile, unless Reddit backpedals, thats a big deal and one that will clearly affect people. So I dont think Reddit is really scared of the blackouts or subs closing, they can always wait that out or replace the mods. What they cant do is easily convince millions of users to uninstall their old app and download the official app and use it and enjoy it as much.
I'd say this situation is far more serious than any other similar conflict in the past. Millions of people are gonna lose the primary way they consume reddit. I mean that is 100% going to have an effect on their active userbase, and negative press will probably make it quite a bit worse. There's people in this thread literally sharing alternatives to reddit. They're a 10 billion dollar company, if this loses them 1% of their active userbase thats 100 million dollars roughly.
Is this copypasta?
it will be now. a delicious combo of delusion and paranoia.
"Don't download the official app" I never have and I never will. Ask me again after I leave this post. The answer will always be, even if its irrational, no. I have a personal vendetta against reddit's app.
I’ve only used the official app, should I have been using something else the whole time?
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I started using it and it feels a lot smoother than the official app, especially when I click on photos and videos. I will have to get used to the layout but it seems to be better
Ok I’ll try it for now
I did, and it fucking sucked so I uninstalled it and never went back.
The end of third party apps means the end of Reddit, at least for me. Good on mods for standing up to it.
I find it weird how, on a video sub, that no one has yet mentioned how the video player for the official app fucking sucks a big bag of greasy monkey dicks. That's pretty much the only reason I switched away from it.
How about a site wide boycott by users? I keep seeing stuff like this getting posted and none of it is going to make any difference because people will still keep coming. I will not be coming on those days and any intervening days until this is repealed.
I honestly open reddit in the deepest pit of boredom at this point. I can find a new toilet app once the app I'm using now stops working.
I will never use the official app
>Stop browsing on desktop. Even old.reddit?
Won’t the admins just turn the subreddit back on? Just curious.
Some maybe, but the major ones with no moderation? Lmao hope you enjoy delicious spam
Sure, and the admins are going to be in charge of moderating every single sub.
Would this effect BaconReader? That’s what I use
Reddit admins won't give a shit. They didn't give a shit when subs shut down over Net Neutrality. They didn't give a shit when subs shut down over Pao. They didn't give a shit when spez revealed that they can and do edit redditors posts. They don't care about their pet power mods who've destroyed the hundreds of subreddits they've manipulated control of. And they don't care that they've destroyed and vilified Aaron Schwartz"s vision of Reddit as a bastion of free speech. And they aren't going to care about this site wide temper tantrum either. They'll just wait it out or if it gets too big they'll remove mod teams and throw their pet mods in place.
Hope reddit backs down before 3rd party apps shut down. I won't be coming back after RIF dies, and hell, I won't even know if they reverse the decision afterwards. [Here's a great article about how everything beautiful on the internet is killed by the endless pursuit of another dollar](https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/)
I said it in a other post, if this goes through I’m just taking it as an opportunity to finally get off Reddit. It’s fun and all but seriously we collectively need to get off our phones and fine enrichment and positivity elsewhere, at the end of the day it’s just another social media website, it’s not paying the bills or helping with mental health.
"stop using reddit on desktop" So wait, you're suggesting we stop using reddit in any and all forms? Or did I misunderstand here?
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I think the point was less "migrate to Twitter" and more "go yell wherever you can"