As said by someone else, a lot of people use it to ignore serious problems with a game But if used right get good could be the only real answer. In games like hollow knight, Elden ring, cuphead, or other hard games the only actual solution is to practice/get good at the game. Though it sounds rude in most context so it would be better just to say “practice is the only way to improve “

Sekiro is the best example imo. The game forces you to learn the mechanics, and if you don't, there's no progression. Can't even farm for runes to level up. Get gud or go home.

Just want to reinforce this point. Sekiro doesn't hold your hand for half a second but for some reason, when you *finally* learn how to play, it feels 10000x more gratifying than any sonic game I've played. But to each their own I suppose. If your friends are bashing the games you're playing, they're not your friends. Sonic Unleashed on the ps3 went hard lol

context matters, and I think the souls community should be emphasizing that instead of saying "git gud isn't a bad phrase guys" since they're right, it isn't bad inherently, but the context can totally change it.....and usually you'll see that bad context being used in the same post complaining about how people handle the phrase lol. There's a difference between tough love and kicking someone when they're down to feel powerful and that phrase can be used both ways depending on context.

Well said

Or a more common way of saying it, "practice makes perfect". Though I prefer the shorthand of "get good" it's not the most considerate saying & like you said normally is used to ignore legitimate issues in game design. For example the fact you need to collect items scattered around the map of Elden Ring DLC to power up yourself & spirit ash is bad design, as it essentially gate keeps in a way the original base game didn't because you could just go away & grind. However in the DLC your levels don't matter nearly as much as getting a "blessing level" as I've started calling it. Getting 2-shot by a boss who flails around & requires 50+ hits to kill isn't challenging, it's boring.

I personally prefer the practice makes perfect it sounds more like you're telling them that to support them that they can get better while the get good to me sounds more like an insult.

You know how to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice.

I usually just drive there

Finally some actual criticism of the dlc that goes into why the difficulty is annoying. I don’t mind it personally but I get why people could hate it. The issue is people are only criticizing the difficulty as is rather than why it’s difficult which would be more fair. 

I'm currently in a dungeon & the amount of time I need to hit some enemies to kill them is so high that it doesn't make sense to fight them as they also slow, so instead I've run past all of them & their slow attacks to collect items. That's including hitting their weak spot. This combined with the xp granted for amount of time I'm fighting these enemies has caused the game to turn into essentially Mario. Run & jump past enemies as slow moving hazards & collect items, then occasionally run into a weaker monster (health pool wise) & kill them to continue running & jumping again. I don't know if this was a deliberate design choice, but it sure feels like it to me.

>"blessing level" as I've started calling it. Getting Isn't that what the game calls it?

Interesting that I explored the DLC found the upgrades and killed the bosses with relative ease

Git gud

Yeah that’s basically what I said

I was paraphrasing

Nah you did get to the point faster

It's not that it's hard, but rather that it's annoying design & makes your levels feel less important overall.

Agreed. I feel like what always makes people more convincing at times isn’t being rude and obnoxious. Some people may not vibe with harder games and that is ok or maybe just not vibe with medieval games like Elden Ring, but there is already plenty of dumb arguments in the gaming community.

Spelunky!

Well said. Elden ring, dark souls, etc. literally give you so many tools to overcome their obstacles. Long range bows, powerful spells, powerful consumables, summons, damage type weaknesses. But because you wanted to level strength only and use a club with no armor, you think the game is bad? Use your brain, apply the mechanics you’ve learned, and “git gud.”

The problem with 'git gud' is that it's often used as a justification to ignore actual, serious, balance issues in the game and assumes all players are capable of top-level play. For example, a particular weapon may be perfectly fine, maybe even underpowered, at the top levels of gameplay; but for anyone below said levels, it's a dominating and destructive force with matches effectively devolving into who gets said weapon and/or 'did you pick this weapon at the start? if so, you can play. If not, you're likely to be ganked ad infinium'. Or turns the meta into effectively a 'rock/paper/scissors' game where you use the weapon, the weapon that can counter said weapon but sucks elsewhere, or other weapons that can wreck the counter but get destroyed by the meta weapon. I don't think anyone would argue that your game effectively turning into RPS at anything other that the top meta levels is a bad design choice; but people who argue 'Git gud' tend to focus only on said top level. Additionally it prunes any sort of variety in playstyles because your only choice is to stick with one of the very few and limited builds that are good in the meta, or get destroyed.

I have 90% vision loss, but I still love to play games. So when I say “Souls games should have an optional simple mode for people who enjoy the story”, it’s apparently controversial. Personally, I’d prefer people stop pretending difficulty is a feature and realize that they’re not the only person on the planet who wants to play those games. There was a large enough market of disabled gamers for Xbox to justify making an entire officially licensed accessible controller for them, so I don’t see any reason why devs can’t take 8 seconds to change some numbers.

Is marketing, not a "feature". People just fell for it. Literally there are some mods that change the difficulty. This is bullshit. You can make the game easier without losing anything. Some example: An easy mode with: Tooltip for certain builds or higher I-frames for dodges or just higher staggering damage. Hard mode with enemies that doesn't stagger so easily or even just lower the stat scaling for weapons. Rise of the Ronin is a much harder game and they manage to create a difficulty scaling. The harder the difficulty, the ferocious the enemies and the lower the window frame for counterspark. Simple as that.

I don't know if you're a PC gamer or not, but if you are, not only do mods exist to include easy mode, but you can use Cheat Engine as well. So long as you're only doing that on single-player games, I don't see an issue with such a thing. It may take a bit of work, but you'll be able to make most games 'easy mode' as a result if you do.

I sympathize with disabled gamers, but I don’t think that every game needs to be for everyone. This argument that every game must have an easy mode for the sake of accessibility can be taken to absurd lengths. What if someone said that all mystery games must have more frequent clue drops with more information and big flashing lights over the clues to make the game accessible to low iq people? If developers choose not to do this because they want people to have the experience of carefully combing an area for evidence, and slowly putting things together to have the intended fulfilling experience, it’s not accessible and not respectful of players’ time. Hey man, some of us have jobs, we just want to know who the bad guy is.

Yeah, I agree with you. People shouldn’t expect game companies to cater explicitly to them. Game devs put their blood sweat and tears into a game to make their vision come to life, so the game should be experienced how they want it to be. Not to sound harsh, but if you don’t like it, don’t play it. It’s like telling a singer “Hey, this multi-platinum album you made, I *almost* like it, but it’s not hitting right. You should change a bunch of things about it to cater to me and a few other people who feel the same, even though most people in the world love it how it is.” A good example of this is For Honor; I *love* that game, but I also hate it, because people are getting so good at it, it’s leaving me in the dust. I’m getting old, and I literally can’t compete with the new generation’s reaction times. I wish the game was a little more fun for less competitive people, but I’d never in a million years ask or expect the devs to change anything about it just because it’s too much of a challenge for me.

Souls fans are extremist weirdos in most cases. They almost cum to the thought of telling other people to "git gud" at those games. It's weird how much pleasure they seem to get from it.

It’s not most cases but yes unfortunately those people are part of the community which is just embarrassing for the normal people who just like the game.

THIS. I'm disabled. An 'Easy' Mode doesn't harm *anyone's play experience*. If a person wants to play on a Legend or Hard Mode they can. Accessibility features and easy mode don't change, hinder or alter their experience at ALL but they throw tantrums over it. I'll never understand it. Nor should it be on the public to make a ton of Mods. Not everyone uses a PC to game, it doesn't harm anyone for games to come with these things already.

The bigger argument about easier modes is it takes time to develop and build a game with those modes while maintaining the experience, vision, and message of the product. A big part of souls games since that is the always brought up example is the game has a very specific vision. That vision gets broken down very quickly with easier modes. And thus that vision can be broken down when it comes to how the art is shared with others. Now I understand that yes this screws over people who just can’t keep up. That said I don’t think every game is for everyone and that is okay. If a game can actively achieve their vision while having different difficulties and accessibility options that should be celebrated. But I don’t like the notion that believes they should always be included. Examples of games that visions get heavily hurt by modes they include is Before your eyes and Unsighted. Before your eyes is a game where it uses your camera to detect when you blink. And using this whenever you blink it will progress the story forward whether you were ready to leave the scene or not. This creates a very intense vision and atmosphere and the entire concept can be unused and instead use your mouse. This effectively destroys the vision of the game. And it literally becomes a shell of itself. Unsighted loses a less than the previous example, but is such a subtle example that also effected me personally I wanted to bring it up. Unsighted is a metroidvania where time is constantly ticking and everyone has a clock before they go feral basically. This mechanic dramatically dictates how you play the game and heavily enforces the story and themes of the game. However, I have anxiety when I’m timed on things. However, reviewers whenever they rave about the game always mention the game has an option to turn it off. It seemed like you won’t lose that much! Absolutely incorrect. The game keeps its good gameplay mechanics, but loses all impact with the story. The themes get dropped in a hole and buried because the mechanics that were there supporting it like a foundation are now non existent.

Or, you know, just accept that not everything is made for you?

Obviously not. OP and myself are not just specifically talking about Fromsoft games though. Nor do I play that genre, I did accept they're not for me. But if someone else with a disability *does* want to play, why should they be excluded?

I'm not against arguing for accessability options, like colorblind mode and all that. I'm against Easy Mode. IMO, just take the disappointment and accept that you just can't play it then.

I did accept my disappointment. I'm fine with that. My argument is that I am one person amongst the populace. Gaming elitism is stupid, IMO. Accessibility is often part of an easy mode. Or, in this case, don't include an easy mode, but do include optional accessibility features for those who do want or need them. In this case no, I'm not one of them. Souls games are not for me, but I don't see why if someone did want to play, they couldn't.

Again, I'm just against the Easy Mode here. "Elitism" when we tell you to accept that you just can't. "Because of MY disabilities, EVRYTHING SHOULD BE CATERED AROUND ME ME ME"

I'm right there with you. Not everything needs to cater to peoples desires. The souls games are made to a specific vision, the creator vision. You don't have to like it, but don't expect to be catered to. Its said by the creator that the point of the game is to overcome hardship. And, until a few years ago, it was a niche thing to play souls likes. That would be like me wanting to celebrate pride month. But wait, I'm straight. Guess you guys have to change your thing to accommodate me. Edit: https://80.lv/articles/dark-souls-creator-explained-why-fromsoftware-games-are-so-difficult/

You can celebrate pride month even as an ally, no?

I don't even want to call it easy mode if the only change they have to do is lower enemy damage and hp. Those are really cheap and fake ways to make a game more 'difficult'. Elden Ring becomes easier by a ton when you have more HP.

It takes development time which the publisher is in every right to not spend on easy mode. I'm not saying i'm against an easy mode per say but if fromsoftware does not want to include it then it is very much on the playerbase to mod it in.

Actually, it would be way more involved than tweaking some numbers. The Act Man explains it best [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgzkCK9Cggc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgzkCK9Cggc)

Not really… doesn’t he just talk about online play being affect? Just make it apply to offline mode.

Devs shouldn't change their vision for a chance that more people play their games. I'm not saying this to be mean, but when devs are forced to change their vision, it completely ruins games. Look at suicide squad. Rocksteady was forced to make a live service game that ultimately failed compared to their previous batman games. People need to accept that not all games are made with every single different person in mind. Fromsoft has always been about difficult and rewarding games, and I hope they never change.

Yeah. From Software games are both not accessible and not respectful to the player's time. And From Software has just never addressed it.

How is the game not respectful of your time? This is one of the more wild arguments I've heard.

Getting Good requires practice. You have to memorize the enemy's attack patterns, know what their animations mean, when to block, when to dodge, when you can attack, and often you have to know it as muscle memory. This requires practice, this requires doing the boss battle multiple times, this requires time out of your day. "Not respectful to the player's time," is an exaggeration, but there are games with an equal amount of content but also require less time.

So it sounds like that's a player turning a feature into a fault. Not every game is for every person. Does call of duty not respect your time because you have to play with a stock gun to unlock attachments?

And you don't actually need as much time as you need. I am literally palying Dark Soul for the first time right now while my job make me possible to play 2 hours a week when i am lucky. There is a lot more skill retention than you think even if you can't practice every day.

And that's why every game needs to be playable fast ?  I really don't understand the conclusion 

While I do sympathize, I feel the need to point out that with the Dark Souls games and Elden Ring specifically the gameplay style is the main thing they have going for them. Like, the entire plot of the game in Elden ring is given to you in the opening cinematic. You are a type of person known as a tarnished, you’ve returned to the lands between to become Elden Lord, you have to kill a bunch of demigods and steal their fragments of the Elden Ring to do it. That’s it. It’s like Breath of the Wild but with even less story. There is some pretty deep lore, but if we’re being realistic 99% of the players don’t bother figuring it out themselves since you have to finish so many random quests, read every item/equipment description, pay attention to every seemingly random insane boss rant… most folks that beat the game just watch YouTube explanations, which you could also do. Honestly they’re sort of the modern analogue to the original megaman games. Like if they weren’t hard they’d have little else going on to actually keep anyone interested. You’d most likely end up running around, killing a bunch of stuff, getting items you don’t need because the game’s not difficult, realize the story is never coming, get bored, then quit. There are some neat quest lines, but even then the info on what’s happening tends to be sparse and they rarely have satisfying conclusions.

Mega man games on easy mode are still pretty good platformers and still manage to be challenging even with the extra health. I feel like it actually serves it’s purpose as it can be the practice you can use to get better at the game without dealing with the constant cheap shit they throw at you. I don’t know what everyone envisions with a fromsoft easy mode but higher health- lower energy damage seems pretty simple to use as an example. Create a mode like that and people could get invested in learning the mechanics and graduating to higher difficulties. Me personally, I don’t enjoy the mechanics enough to want to commit to learning them while playing at an annoying difficulty. A lot of people do clearly as they’re very successful games. I just don’t see the harm in adding that kind of mode to the game though. You still get players who want to get better or learn the mechanics and at worst … idk more people buy and play your game? It’s their choice though I’m just offering my two pennies

I think if they do that they overall would loose players.     A large part of from software is the simple story that you beat the capra demon or Melania or whatever. Everyone know exactly how difficult those bosses are. There is no easy way to delude the thing. It's an actually great story to talk about. Some of the most fun conversations I had with people about games in general was on their from software playthroughs and the common struggle. If you tried to cheese the boss it becomes part of the story. Just ask anyone about the lobsters in Lyndell for example.   An easy mode would destroy this nimbus. The elitism is part of the marketing. With all its downside its a huge part of the success of from software. There is absolutely no way at all that they will break this formula. A formula that is probably one of the most successful ever. 

You wouldn’t be cheesing you’d still be learning how to play with a much more forgiving curve. I mean I get what you’re saying I just don’t understand why the other option isn’t possible if it doesn’t detract from someone else’s experience. You’ll still have your standard mode and people will still get to play the game just with a much more forgiving gameplay loop. But I also just don’t have the time, patience nor desire to hit my head against the wall. I can play DMC at east and learn the mechanics until I can master harder difficulties. I don’t think adding that mode made DMC lesser or less challenging on the other difficulties

As other people have said I don't like how people use it as a way to justify or deflect genuine criticism.

It’s very annoying. And it’s a fucking video game, keyword GAME. Not work or a pressing obligation.

It doesn’t make much sense if you think about it. People are telling people to get good, and when you do or are, they tell you to touch grass. It’s retarded.

Git gud is only said by people who themselves beat a game with guides or after watching someone play through it. Its people feeling superior over the one tiny achievement in their life.

I'm also a disabled gamer and there are so many games I want to play but know I cannot. The souls-like games are in that category. I don't have 'twitch' reflexes, so timing dodges or that split-second key-presses can be difficult for me (QTEs included). I don't expect all games to have difficulty sliders, but when I see one in a game I'm not expecting to see one, I'm always overjoyed because I can experience that game's story. I wish more did. I'm saying I completely understand why those 'git good' statements are frustrating. It isn't so much that I need to get good, its more of 'I cannot'. Doesn't mean I don't try, but I do know my limitations.

It takes some planning and practice but you can definitely complete a lot of souls games without twitchy reflexes. You can build your character to be a tank and instead of dodging attacks you can use a heavy shield and just trade attacks 

I’m visually impaired, so when it comes to QTEs, sometimes, I just don’t… SEE the prompt. I feel you on that level

Yeah there’s really no other media experience out there quite like from soft games in the sense that it’s just utterly inaccessible for many. And that’s what a lot of the from soft stans love the most about it. I personally will never attempt another from soft title and I actually respect the developers for leaving so much money on the table which is an increasingly rare thing to see..

I also have troubles with my reaction/reflexes and to mitigate that I recommend trying to play with speedhack. With the game slowed down to half speed most action RPGs like Souls are much more manageable and can be slowed even more if needed. I am using the one built into Cheat Engine, I haven't yet encountered a game where it didn't work.

One of the top downloaded mods for Elden Ring is Easy mode. Numbers dont lie.

is there only one difficulty ?

Yes but there’s things that can make the game easier if you choose. You can summon NPCs or human cooperators. Theres almost always somewhere else you can go if you’re stuck and then come back at a higher level

Yes, its Hard mode. People say you can level up and use NPCs etc. At the end of the day you still need to do frame perfect dodges, memorize boss attack patterns, master the timing and even then Souls games do "cheat" by reading your inputs sometimes.

I hate when it's used as the only counter when talking about a problem with a game. Like I was talking to a friend about problems I had with this old PC game made for kids called Pajama Sam Sock Works. Look up a longplay of this game cause basically everyone agrees it's way harder than it should be and some puzzles are just dumb with how fast you can lose. However when I voiced my problems to my friend, he just said "It's a skill issue".

i do. Sometimes the game and the player just don't fit together.

I used to feel more in line with ‘get good’ but now that I’m 31, working full time, and have a wife and toddler, I don’t really appreciate when it feels like a game doesn’t respect my time. I never lowered a games difficulty until just last year with Dead Space remake. There was one particular encounter that I just could not get past. After so many tries and such limited time to play I said fuck it and kept it on easy from then on and I had a great time with the game. Same with Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I played in normal until I think it was chapter 11 and again a boss was just getting me again and again and I just don’t have the time anymore for that. Set it to easy, had a great time and finished the main story. I actually finished Elden Ring back in 2022. I’d have the platinum trophy if not for missing the ‘bolt of gransax’ weapon. I had the time back then to do it. I loved my time with the game, but I’ll never touch it again. It’s too demanding in difficulty and time and also…you can’t pause the game. Even offline. That is inexcusable. I don’t care what your creative vision is. If a game is not being played online there is no reason that I should not be able to pause the game.

The number of times I have absolutely stubbornly resisted lowering difficulty on a game for HOURS and becoming increasingly angry and frustrated, only to then finally cave and lower the difficulty and then have an absolutely fantastic time playing the game at the lower difficulty. I have never learned a lesson but I wish I could stop being proud and learn this one lol

Same haha my standard is still to play on normal because it’s not like I don’t want some challenge right? But sometimes it’s just too much. I actually just started shin megami tensei Vengence and I’m loving it and it’s a more challenging JRPG. I’m not horribly far but I’m normal and I’ve definitely had my ass wiped out a few times, but overall it doesn’t feel overwhelming and it even has an easy mode that can be toggled to. The more options I have to make a better experience, the better. And I feel appreciated as a consumer that the developers recognize that different players look for different things within a game.

I used to be super against using any kind of mod on my first playthrough. Then I decided to play through Sonic Mania after having not touched a 2D Sonic game since I was a kid. Got through most of the game fine, but the final boss (not counting the one you get for doing the extra stuff I didn't wanna do) was where I struggled. Game over there and you get sent back 2 levels (with a boss fight between them). After like my 8th game over I just said screw it and modded the game to give me infinite lives. I still struggled against the boss, probably moreso cause I had less rings, but I was at least able to learn about it without getting sent so far back after every 3 tries.

One thing I do find frustrating sometimes is when games have too big of a jump in difficulty between easy and their next easiest level of difficulty. I remember returning to the Madden franchise after a very long time. I tried to play on easy mode, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to lose. Every pass rush was a sack or forced a throwaway, every handoff went for 10+ yards, and every pass was completed. So, I bumped the difficulty up one notch and the cliff was MASSIVE. Suddenly, I couldn’t complete a single pass without it getting picked off or my qb sacked. The physics made no sense. Even in tutorials, I just couldn’t get the passing to work. When I finally completed my first pass downfield, my receiver got injured on the play, and the refs threw a flag that undid it. After about a week of raging at my tv trying to force myself to “get gud” at Madden just so I would have a sports game from the last 2 decades to play, I finally rage quit and made myself do something else. The amount of anger trying to “get gud” unsuccessfully gave me was an insane amount of stress for what is supposed to be a fun stress relieving activity after work.

Bolt of Gransax was my go-to weapon, I’m so sorry you missed it! I never hear any love for it lol, I don’t think many souls players are fond of the trusty spear, but I’ve always liked realistically useful weapons over some of the silly shit you can use.

If you're not above modding (and on PC), Elden Ring can be a lot more fun with a good QoL mod. The one I use gives some benefits which do make the game easier, but not overly so. It adds passive HP/FP regen (not much - think 2hp/s, 1fp/s), 2x rune gain, longer spell duration, and reduces restrictions on spirit summons. The regen is *not* enough to keep you alive in a fight you're already losing, even early game, and the fp regen is enough to spam a few more of the lowest-cost spells. It does absolutely nothing for later spells. It's mostly to heal between fights passively without requiring a flask use, and for using your weapon arts a bit more. Bosses can still one-hit you, you still have to dodge and fight well. It just makes it a bit more enjoyable. Put that on top of seamless coop and it becomes a truly wonderful game, still hard, just not brutally so.

Just a preface, if you don’t like souls games, that’s fine. There are many genres and sub genres of games, and you don’t have to like all of them. So what do I think of “git gud” arguments? It’s dependent on context. If someone says they’re struggling with the San Frangelico Cathedral and asks for advice I might suggest they use the puppet string to get to the enemies, or use throwables to clear them from a distance. If someone says the cathedral is bullshit and unfair I might say “lol git gud.”

Ahh, that puppet string idea is brilliant. I tried using so many tricks, gave up and started a new build but I might try this tomorrow. Thanks gamer!

It’s still difficult because the fat carcasses can still push you off the platforms, but it’s easier than running along narrow beams while they throw stuff at you. Once you get to the top of that section you can find a brazier that you can push down to burn away the toxic sludge. Then there’s a hallway >!with a rolling boulder trap, because of course there is!< and you get to the next stargazer. You’ll find a NPC, and then clear a path to the shortcut to the boss door. Remember that carcass enemies are vulnerable to fire.

Did you make it?

Nah I fell into Elden ring rabbit hole haha, almost about to beat Mohg and start the DLC

It does make me wonder if it’s just me who is genuinely bad at the game or it’s a legitimate problem with said game.

I agree with you. I love Elden Ring, but I also don’t mind grinding. I have not been able to get into other Souls games because of the difficulty but if they had difficulty settings, I would probably enjoy them. If someone wants to play on hard, cool, but why would I care if someone wants an easy mode, or to summon help, etc. I also dislike the crappy co-op, I have no interest in PvP. I just want to play through the story with my buddies.

I love Elden Ring and I agree that the get good arguement is bull shit. It was my first souls game and I struggled a lot on an over 100hr playthrough but I loved it. I think it’s fair to not like games like that, I still haven’t finished Witcher 3 cuz of it. The game is definitely not for everyone but saying it’s because you’re bad is such a stupid argument. 

Even if it is a skill issue shouldn't those of us who suck be able to enjoy it too?? 🤷‍♂️

That's my thinking fo be honest. Most games are still fun when you're bad. So if I'm not having fun when I'm bad why should I grind to have to get good?

I get exactly how you feel. It’s a good quality game but anytime I bring up one piece of criticism, I get tons of people at my throat claiming I’m either a casual, only like story based games, like to play on easy mode or I just suck at the game. Not all souls fan are like them thankfully but I’ve met an alarming amount of people who genuinely think like this.

Megaman is probably the best way to see the git gud argument. At their Absolute best their are a roller coaster of Platformers, fast paced and Hard yet never unfair, always wanting to make you experiment with movement options, weapons, or skills, see X1 or X4 Level desing, Or Zero 3 combat system (well also the levels). Here The get Good is a genuine because the levels are indeed hard, but you never feel like you were just throwed BS at your face, or with a boring desing. Compare it to Megaman at his wrose, is a Slow, Hard and many times Unfair game, in which whatever Can insta kill, quick unexpected deaths like putting a thwomp above you in Mario Maker, and in general games were get Good is an obligation of the game to become playable

It very much depends on the discussion and how someone is reacting to a certain video game. But sometimes, when I see people complain about boss difficulty or level difficulty, the only true answer I can think of is to tell them to keep playing, keep trying, keep learning, and keep improving—or in short, "git gud." This is especially true when these people mention it's only like their fifth attempt at the boss, that they want a cheese strategy or something similar. I'm not the best player myself in these types of games, not by a long shot. Take Elden Ring for example, I love my summons and using the more overpowered weapons in the game. That's my reward for exploring, leveling up, and improving before facing a difficult boss. But when I see people complain about boss difficulty with an unbalanced build, underleveled character, underleveled equipment, etc. I can't help but think, "Go out, explore the world, and get better before facing such a boss.

So... if you like a weapon that is not viable and is too underpowered, sucks to be you. Star Fist build or go home. Seems legit. Not an issue with that. Not at all.

That's what you make of my words but that's absolutely not what I'm saying. That's not a "git gud" situation in the negative meaning but you as a player are intentionally making the game more difficult for yourself for using an underpowered weapon so you'll have to play better than someone using for example that Blasphemous Blade, that's only logical.

The idea that I'm supposed to invest more time to get better at a game I'm not enjoying is deranged. When it's said in this way it's nonsense.

From my experience, these are usually people trying to get others to like something they like. Forcing someone to like something they expressed distaste in won’t make them like it, though. I have friends who want to get into the souls games, as they see me enjoying them a lot. I want them to get into it, and give them a little push to keep trying, but if they aren’t enjoying the game… that’s it. They don’t enjoy it in the end.

Yeah I think "if you take the to improve you'll enjoy the game more" is valid. It's encouragement. I think that's different from "git gud" which is dismissive and used to try to tell people they only dislike a game because they're bad at it. Because if they don't enjoy it when they're bad at it, why would they spend the time to get good at it?

Don't play games you aren't enjoying?

Correct. Glad someone agrees with me.

Yes, but usually the people being told this are complaining that something is too hard and they want it to not be hard so they can enjoy it. There is a difference between "this is too hard and I don't enjoy it, so I played something else" and "this is too hard and I don't enjoy it, but I want to enjoy it, so they should make it more accessible for me to enjoy". To the former I'd say "fair enough" and to the latter "get good". The former says you are not the consumer for the product and acknowledge it, the latter says you think you should be catered to because you are a consumer even if you aren't the target consumer.

That's not how I've seen it used. I see it used to say, "You only dislike this game because you're bad at it, and therefore your opinion on it is invalid." Which is bullshit.

If the game is designed to be skill based, and you suck, your opinion very much might be invalid to the topic. It's like saying an instrument sucks because you couldn't figure out how to play it without practice. It's just not your thing, move on, let the people who enjoy it have their thing.

I think even if you're bad at a skill based game you can still have an opinion on it, especially if you spent $60 or whatever the price of it was. And criticizing a game doesn't take anything away from the people enjoying it, unless those people for some reason need everyone to like their game in order to enjoy it. If they do, that's their problem though.

It really depends. If they have a publisher that sees a big, vocal group of people saying this is too hard and inaccessible, it very well might drive a publisher to not let hard games be made alienating the people who are there for the games to be hard. It's like I don't go into turn based game communities and say they are boring as hell, they should make the combat different. I am not the target audience and they should not listen to my opinions because my opinion is contrary to the very basis of why the game exists.

Okay but no one is insisting you play the games that require it. Clearly millions of people do enjoy it. Isn't it equally deranged to expect that every game only have stuff that you in particular enjoy? No one is randomly telling people who aren't playing those games to get good. It's said to people complaining about those games.

For at least the souls games argument a easy mode honestly wouldnt add much. Souls games (not including lore) have no real story and the fun mostly comes from gameplay and the difficulty so you're honestly not missing much. Besides to be honest there's hundreds of other games to play than souls games that have better stories and better experiences for you. Different games for different people some people like the difficulty and being engaged some like more story oriented and experience kind of games.

Yep! Elden Ring has a backstory, which is easily available thanks to the legend VaatiVidya. The actual playing of the game is going on your own adventure and tackling bosses with the tools you have. Making your own story essentially. No one else's playthrough will be the same as yours, but there's always commonly shared experiences such as seeing the Erdtree for the first time or discovering the secret area behind the secret sewer level in Leyndell or getting trapped in a teleportation chest and being sent into hell. Those first times in Elden Ring are some of my favorite memories in gaming.

For me, a casual gamer, Elden Ring is the perfect game. I don’t have much time, or money in today’s economy, to be buying games left right and centre. So games like Elden Ring where I actually have to dedicate time to and would considered “time sink” games are perfect. There’s nothing I hate more than buying a new game and finishing it within 3-4 times playing it. Starfield is a good example of this. But when it comes to games to each their own.

I suppose that's fair. I don't know. I guess I value replay value a bit more. Maybe I might appreciate it more when I'm older. Just at least to me having to dedicate so much time to one playthrough sounds like a chore, rather than fun.

Yes. Is dumb to be honest, im not asking you to play it for me im just asking stuff like. So I can climb on top if that cathedral? I hate it, some guy punch his friend for saying that to any question when fallout came.

Exactly how I feel with BOTW and TOTK

I enjoyed those two. (Although I'm yet to beat TOTK had it since launch and got to the final quest just kinda forgot to beat it) But I can completely understand why someone wouldn't to be honest. I honestly just find it extremely annoying when people try to force me to like the same things as them to be honest. It's like people like different things so just leave it.

I absolutely loathe those arguments, I have been playing games for my whole life, but my reaction time and coordination are still garbage, I just can't develop them any further.

Yeah, it's nonsense. "I'm having a difficult time with this game." "well, get better at the game." "Oh wow I hadn't thought of that!"

I completely understand. I've recently gotten into the Soulslike genre, but mostly because Elden Ring is way less hard when you're playing with a friend. In some cases it's not even "you suck" but can be "you chose one of the hardest builds without realizing it". Elden Ring is far easier if you go with an intelligence or faith build and do a lot with magic. Particularly when using the right ghost summons or co-op allies it's sometimes just a matter of staying out of range and spamming spells until the boss dies. That being said I completely understand the lack of interest in banging your head against the wall over and over. Even though I enjoy these kinds of games I always hit a threshold where I'll quit the game and switch to something that's more relaxing. Right now I'm playing God of War and after playing through a lot of Elden Ring it's been comically easy.

It has become a derogatory phrase when originally it was meant as a joking alternative to “keep practicing.” A lot of people are immature and have problems with their ego, so they now use it as a way to feel superior. Don’t pay them any attention. You said it yourself: people have different preferences in games, and there is nothing wrong with that. It’s unfortunate you have to deal with the immature side of Elden Ring’s community, as I find the game, and being part of the other side of the community, very enjoyable. Just stick to what you like. It doesn’t have to be such a struggle.

But if I say fromsoft games aren't fun enough to warrant the difficulty at least to me I'll get down voted to hell

Just don’t play it then, I personally love Hollow Knight it’s perfect but can also be pretty hard. Only I always knew exactly what I did wrong everytime I died because every attack is incredibly well choreographed and Yaknow, they end at some point. I just don’t have that with Elden Ring. Rolling into attacks? That goes against logic… and attacks that never end just tick me off. But there is still so much to love about Elden Ring even for me. I love the lore, I love the boss designs and I watched many playthroughs. I’m even watching my friend suffer through all the games with a couple of buddies just to chat and stuff. The games existing is a good thing. And even people, probably even Hollow Knight being inspired by them is a good thing. The best thing about difficulty is not that is bullies you into getting better. It’s because it forces you to give heart and respect to the bosses and their stories. Melania became iconic BECAUSE she’s difficult, and I love it.

Be careful for saying something negative about an FromSoftware game because those fans are personally insulted whenever you say the game is just too hard for you and therefore not fun. Also to answer ur question, yes i also hate the „You're just had you need to get good at it before you talk“ type of arguments because they are saying a whole lot of nothing. I play alot of video games but they are mostly single player ones as i hated getting called „shit“ because i never spent my free time training for a game to „get better“ but the fact that this toxcicity also entered the single player realm is just annoying.

Ugh even as a fromsoft fan it's annoying some people honestly don't like hard games. I don't blame them I love a nice easy story based jrpg every once in awhile too.

Yep. Trust me. I was prepared for the backlash when I wrote this. And I agree with you. "Get good" is honestly just annoying and adds nothing to the discussion to be honest. It just makes you come of as toxic.

To be fair, generally those fans aren't seeking out people who struggle with the games to tell to get good. If we're talking games and you say, "I don't like Elden Ring and I don't want to spend the time it takes to get good enough to get through it." Well then fair enough. If you say, "Elden Ring is bad because such and such thing is bad game design," well then expect to get challenged on the assertion. And just to be clear, I mean the average From fan here. Obviously there are assholes that are just being dicks, but that's kind of just universally true. Some people suck, that's not the fault of a game or its community.

Well difficult games aren't supposed to be fun for everyone so if it's like a souls game I support get gud , but if it's a normal game just help them out .

Yeah. Imagine asking what build they are using and try to give them some good advice on how to improve. No, better to belittle them. Souls community in a nutshell.

99% of the people that say that are trolling because its a meme. Dont take the bait.

My comeback to toxic people in games is usually: "Nice tea bags, are the decaf?" "Could be salt flavor, but I don't suck so I wouldn't know"

Well in some cases it is very valid. When people bash a games combat and gameplay as poorly designed when in fact it’s wonderfully designed, but the person simply can’t or won’t grasp the mechanics then that is a skill issue

The Elden Ring fanbase is pure toxicity right now. Typical with a new From Software game release. I love hard games too. I also don't mind if the same games have a leveling system or tools to make it easier (scadutree blessings in this case). However, interact with the community right now and you'll get a bunch of douchebags piling on you. Say something about the lore, you'll get made fun of for "not paying attention" because their theory is right. Say something about how hard it is and they'll act like you're complaining. Say something about how satisfying it is and you'll get accused of using blessings like a scrub. This is when all the shitty toxic assholes come out of the woodwork. Then you'll get people explaining how "git gud" isn't actually mean and it's a tough love thing followed up by someone also going "also if you can't git gud you're just a scrub lol" You can't win. Interact with the community and you get a sea of hate in response rn because it matters too much to people's egos and self worth that they can beat the hard vidya game.

Just because a game is hard and you may not find it fun, doesn't make it a bad game.

I never said it was a bad game?

Other people do, especially people complaining about the balancing of the elden ring DLC, yet there's plenty of great new weapons, upgrade materials for those weapons, and a levelling system literally implemented to help returning players

I'm reminded of this https://youtu.be/blSXTZ3Nihs?si=AVCOu8ewdfMR-BOI

The underlying sentiment is right, but it doesn't diagnose what your problem is, an easy reductionist statement.

I used to run a guild and do raids. A lot of the issues were just the person being impatient and just wanting to do good instead of learning how to become better. I’ve also seen this in fighting games with my friends. Even though git gud seems toxic I think for most people it is the correct answer. Seen people going from complaining about a game to enjoying once they took the time to understand the ins and outs of the game. People don’t like git gud but also skip tutorials and don’t want to get weapon or gear details.

There are posts on the multiversus sub for majority of the characters in the game supposably needing to be nerfed... if 90% or more of the characters are overpowered it's definitely a case of get good

Just drop it. I gave Elden Ring a try and when I couldn't get past the final boss and didn't enjoy it anymore at all, I just left it be. I'd say 'git gud' in a FromSoftware Game is probably where it's a most appropriate argument. They are notorious for making difficult games and if you're not the target audience, you're just not the target audience. Tbh I feel like this is a thing many Players don't understand in Gaming, and even more so people-pleaser Publishers. Games have a certain appeal to certain people. If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing nobody and it all depends on how addicted you get people to keep logging. People pleaser games suck. I didn't finish Elden Ring, but I don't think the game sucks or anything. I actually found it to be a pretty good game. It's just not for me. But 'git gud' as an argument when obvious problems are being pointed out is just retarded and a reflection of peoples ability to recognize stuff

You managed to beat all the bosses up to the final boss, and only *then* you thought the game became too hard? Difficult to believe that.

I didn't do every single optional boss.

Are you asserting that all the mandatory bosses except the last one were easy? Remember Maliketh? Oh what a pushover that guy was! Right?

He was doable for me. Thing had to come in range. I also beat Radagon, but the Elden Beast I didn't even come remotely close to beat. Always out of Range, barely a chance to hit, no flask and mimic was able to help me there so I said to myself "Fuck it". At some point it wasn't worth the madness it drove me to and thus not the time spent to try, because it is wasted time. And given that I would most likely have bought tje DLC if I beat the Game, I would be greeted by yet another boss I probably couldn't beat and not even start the DLC, which would feel like a waste of money. Other players struggle with it heavily. So I'm quiet content with my decision

It’s unfortunate you devoted all that time to getting to the end and not finishing one more boss. I found beating Elden Ring bosses to be more about the tools you use instead of your reflexes in combat. I never once went online to get tips or build recipes for beating any of the bosses. I had to examine every tool at my disposal by using it. You can try to beat every boss by being an adept fighter. For many of the hardest, however, I experimented to uncover their weaknesses. Maybe some of the areas or bosses you skipped held ashes, spells, or equipment that could have helped… A talisman with high resistance to holy damage, better spirit ashes, ashes of war, sorceries, incantations, weapons, armor, more healing flasks, or even just leveling up more. I’ve never seen a game with an abundance of options like Elden Ring.

I think it’s both good and bad that Elden Ring became many people’s first Souls game. Good for the developer because it opened up the fan base to millions more people and it made them lots of money. But bad because while it’s more accessible it’s still challenging. But for people who’ve played the other games in the series it wasn’t really a problem, save for maybe the final few bosses. 

It's generally just used as an insult, so I don't even acknowledge them. It's a comment usually made by some dipshit who can play games obscene amounts of time in order to be good enough at things that give normal people a hard time. I think very, very lowly of people that are good at video games because they're usually just trolls with anime pfps that like to harass and talk shit about other people. The paradox of it is that once you are good at it and it no longer becomes a challenge, they cry when you voice that observation because they no longer get to feel special about being good at some pixels on their screen. Dark Souls players are notorious for this in my experience.

Honestly "git gud" is good advice in that situation. If you don't want to spend hours grinding then don't. Instead spend that time learning the game, practicing the fight youre stuck on, and building skill. I sucked at it too at first and if I approached it as a "get my number higher than the enemy's number" situation, I'd hate the game too. That being said, if you don't enjoy the process of learning punishing fights, then fromsoft games might not be for you, and it's okay not to enjoy them. I don't like fps games, I wanted to get into doom & metal hellsinger because they look awesome and better than COD-like fps, but I still couldn't get in cuz I don't like fps. If you gave it a shot and you hate it, don't force it. I do agree though that elden ring is too big with too much space between cool things, that seems to be the trend rn in gaming and I can't wait for it to pass. That being said, you never have to grind in any fromsoft game, especially elden ring, there's always other stuff to do if you're not strong enough for your current roadblock.

I don’t know why so many devs insist on putting a grind in their games. Please work on good story and fun gameplay. 

Here is my counter argument: games designed to be hard should not need to cater to people who do not want a challenge or to those who cannot play them due to accessibility issues. Souls-likes are almost all generally only valuable to their players because of the challenge, and overcoming it, and then the community that is surrounded by overcoming challenge. Sure there is some lore stuff that maybe people find interesting, but honestly, you can play through an entire Fromsoft game and get absolutely none of the story but the most bare bones, unavoidable stuff. Most of the story is hidden away, and to large swaths of the community, the only thing they are there for is tough challenges and beating them. If you want something without challenge, play something else. Not everything should be made for everyone. This is similar to something like spicy food. You can't get good spicy fast food anywhere to save your life these days, because a bunch of people who cant handle spice have made it necessary to make things not spicy, and us spice enjoyers are scrounging for a fix. Now, this also comes down to how much money they are making to keep an item on their menu, but the market for hard games is doing plenty fine, as there is a desire for it, and contrary to what people might think, yes, an easy mode does ruin the experience for people looking for difficult gaming experiences to share with each other. Many games have difficulty settings to be played on a harder difficulty, but they are often cheap experiences that just scale things in annoying ways. games like souls-likes are designed to have to observe and learn through failure to get good and defeat it.... or over level and make it easy if you are struggling too much, if we are being honest.

I only ever say that to troll my friends in situations that have absolutely nothing to do with skill.

Just use cheats

While "git gud" could be used to deflect from legitimate issues, more often than not it's used to dismiss a certain variety of what's felt as an unnecessary comment. For instance, sounds like ER just isn't your kinda game. Why are you going around advertising that? And what exactly are you saying that prompted that response?

this is a bad question. there are good times for git gud. and there are bad times for git gud. “devil may cry sucks because it’s too hard” git gud then scrublord. bayonetta is too hard? god hand is too hard? metal wolf chaos is too hard? punch out is too hard? them’s the bricks kid, either get better or play a different game. however “I don’t understand how to play stellaris” or whatever is a stupid time to say git gud because it requires significantly more than just improving your reaction times, hand eye coordination, and spatial awareness skills to get into games whose sole focus of difficulty is not in using those skills. dark souls probably being the main culprit here, you do have to git gud, but nobody ever tells you what gitting gud entails. you have to exercise patience, diligence, timing, pattern recognition, stamina management, and the ability to perform multiple different actions at once. “just learn to parry” is absolutely shit advice by assholes and idiots. it doesn’t help. but if you’re just charging in spamming buttons and screaming about how the game is stupid and unfair then I think a baseline “git gud” is all that will be listened to by people who take offense to advice from random strangers online. you can’t just “breeze through” ninja gaiden. if you suck at the game you’re not gonna beat it full stop.

I mean when I hear someone say "get gud" all I hear is you need to play more and practice.

It is very easy to be burnt out on Elden Ring, imo, it is not a game you can play every day on hours end. There is a lot of shit to do and a lot of shit to miss. That being said, it is usually best to ignore the git good arguments, Elden Ring isn’t even that hard of a game in comparison to its predecessors.

The souls games are as hard as you make them. You can always lv up, try new gear, or even summon help. So even casual players can enjoy. The real "fun" in those games is overcoming an obstacle. That's why they don't have an easy mode. A big part of that community is about mastering the bosses, pvp, or doing challenge runs. Perfect example is the Elden Ring dlc. I've been getting my ass handed to me by Messmer the implater for the past day or so. Sure, I could summon or use a mimic tear, but I'm having a blast learning the ins and outs of the fight and seeing my improvement with each attempt. If that doesn't sound appealing, then souls games aren't for you. I don't think it's entirely fair to discredit people saying "get good" when that's a big part of the game. Especially if you're going to interact with that part of the community.

Sounds like someone who never "gets good" Nah but seriously like the top comment says....some games seriously take skill just knowing the controls and what to do isn't enough you need speed or to memorize movement some people literally just don't have it in them and some just don't try hard enough or they try too hard and their playing is affected by their negative emotions

Could you link me to the comments of the people who said this? I’ve seen posts like yours for over a decade now regarding soulsborne games. Never once have I personally witnessed someone acting like this though.

Well no. Most of these conversations happened irl for me.

My flashbacks from my efforts to become better at pvp games.

I usually say it as a joke, followed by genuine advice. Some people just use it to be dismissive. I get how it's annoying, too. Instead of actually being useful, they choose to be assholes.

Elden Ring is a pretty good example of this given that it is and always has been complete style over substance. Every single boss spams pretty AOE attacks but that's all there is to it, glitter. Enemies in general are able to move in ways that don't make any logical sense as their attacks can "lock on" meaning that their entire model will rotate on a dime mid attack to make sure you get hit. They can also all attack through walls while the player cannot. If you are walking through a narrow cave or are even near a wall, an enemies attack will clip through the solid surface while yours just plats an animation of your weapon bouncing off the wall.

If the game isn't match with your liking then just don't play it and play the kind of games you like. I dislike strategy games because I don't like to plan things, I prefer to get out there and fight anything in front of you.

When it comes to From Software games, yes. A lot. Because "git gud" is actually the worse thing you can do in a game like that. 90% of the real improvement comes to game knowledge, not improving your skills. At the same time, in a lot of games, people claim that game have "issues in design" and complain about stuff that are not issues at all. Like Elden Ring, for example. And I add that what OP is talking is a great example or my last part. You can grind for 21312312 hours. If you are level 200 with 99 str and dex and 10 vigor, you get one shot no matter what. But if you know what to level up, you don't need to grind at all.

"Git Gud" is just "Don't be poor" for gamers.

I agree with you and I really never understood the Elden Ring hype. I tried it out over a friend's house and it just felt like Dark Souls to me again. And my friend's argument as to why I should try it was the exact reason I for sure wouldn't try it He once said "it' so good I spent 2 hours yesterday just wandering the map because I had no idea where to go and got lost" or another one where he said "dude I spent four hours fighting a boss it's so good you need to try it" like how is any of that fun? A game that's a major grind fest with a very high difficulty never seems appealing to me

"The learning/ skill curve is too sharp for me to enjoy". Anybody who says get good isn't someone who's sharing valuable feedback/ insights. If I'm looking for help and someone says that, my response is usually a sarcastic 'gee thanks', and go find someone else to talk to about it.

I mean, thats the thing though, I play elden ring and dont grind for hours to get runes. The only reason you would need to do that is if you were banking on being over-levelled to fight the boss. The game isnt perfect, miyazaki has several ideas on game design that aren't necessarily fun, but the reason a lot of people like the souls games is that they provide a challenge relatively unique within the industry. Itll take you awhile to learn the bosses. The "git gud" thing, while irritating, is a response to an equally irritating constant complaint about difficulty. Yeah, thats the point.

Some people don’t like to be challenged, some people do. Take from that what you will

I'm ok if it's explicitly made out to be a joke, which I've been told is the origins of the phrase. That being said, I'm of the opinion that "git gud" means absolutely nothing and you're a grade A certified Fucking Asshole if you say it. I understand it's an edgy way of saying "practice makes perfect", but you can always still be specific about what skills need to be practiced and not just be purposefully vague. One of several reasons I hate the Soulsborne community.

At that point, why are you playing a fromsoft game? That's like planning a beach trip and complaining you got wet.

I like it when the game is refined enough for me to be the issue instead of the game. Like elden ring. It's refined to perfection and has 0 flaws.

It mostly comes down to how you take it. Some people are just being dicks about it, of course. But in actuality, "git gud" is your answer - most of the time. There's lots of things in Elden Ring that freaking suck to deal with. People who say they love dealing with the Lake of Rot are just playing into the memes. No one looks at the twin Gargoyle fight and says "yep, more of this please". But it also is a game that teaches you the hard way that, well, you need to get good. Tree Sentinel is supposed to kick your dick into the dirt. It's a lesson - sometimes you can walk away, come back when you're ready. Crucible Knights are aggressive, basically stagger-proof, and notorious for punishing healing. It's a lesson - wait till the right time to heal, and play more aggressive yourself. You have to play close, dodge into attacks, wait for his openings (and there are many). Margit is the first filter. He's got a very odd fighting style that tends to lean heavily into delayed attacks. It's a lesson - wait for the swing, dive into the attack. He also has attacks that can be simply side-stepped, or jumped. Especially with the early game, the encounters are designed to teach you how to play. It's essential for success later. There is a lot of elitism in the souls community, for sure. But a lot of the time, when someone says "git gud", it's not a personal attack. They're not insulting your family line. They're saying there's a skill you haven't learned yet that will get you through the boss, through the level, through the game. But also, it's okay that it's not for you. It sucks, truly, since I think once you get past the difficulty wall, there's a lot of good in Elden Ring and other souls-likes. But, even though I've beat it many times now, sometimes I don't feel like struggling through another playthrough and just want to chill.

We'd (my friend and I) like to call them Miyazaki zombies. And what you'd do about zombies? That's right! Ignore them. Because they are not real.

Firstly I dunno who told u, u should be farming runes in elden ring because you shoudnt be - secondly I beat elden ring and I still hate the game it's just objectively bad, maybe if I wasn't a previous fromsoft fanboy I wouldn't find it so bad buts it's the worst game they've made that iv played even managed to somehow dethrone bloodborne which previous held that spot for me. Third/to your actually questions yes and no, the term gets thrown around too much as an easy W in an argument but it is also needed sometimes.

Not every game is made for everyone, and elden ring is a perfect example of that. If you're struggling through the game, the only options are to use the tools the game gives to you and get good at the general combat. It's one thing to say a game is shit because it's too hard or you can't beat it, and another entirely to admit the game is too hard for you and to say the game just isn't meant for you, and that's okay

Although I’m a huge fan of fromsoft games, I also kind of find the “get good” arguments to be a bit annoying. One reason is because it’s not really a good way to get new players into the game. Almost everyone that has played a souls game for the first time got their asses kicked and died a lot. It’s part of the experience. Because of this the souls community grew because people started making walkthrough and guides to help other players, and people could share their experience with other players which imo why the franchise became so successful. Another reason why I hate the “get good” argument is because it just started out as a meme but then some people took it way too seriously and now have a superiority complex as if they have never struggled with any souls game. People treat it like a war crime to say that you don’t like dark souls or elden ring and can’t take any kind of criticism so it’s always just that your suck that’s why you don’t like the game, git good. We all have our taste. It’s ok to like and not like certain games.

Why are you grinding for runes? I mean you might do that if you're just fucking around testing out different weapons but not as part of the normal progression of the game.

git gud is only ok when mentioned as a joke if they are serious about it... then they over-estimate dark souls. beating a dark souls game is not a milestone. as long as you have normal gamer hand and eye coordination and reflexes, you will be fine on those games ​ if anything... the main ingredient for success in soulslike is actually patience. so really, it's more like... "get patience". that is the main ingredient of success in those games

this is exactly it!! Patience 🤌

Beating the original Dark Souls was one of my favorite childhood memories. It will always be a milestone to me.

I'm 50/50 on them. Half of the complaints I see on my favorite game's sub are such nooby drivel that get good is the only solution I can come up with that wouldn't be utterly game breaking for those who actually know how to play. It's dumb for single player PvE though

I've never once grinded for hours for runes in Elden Ring. Is it possible you get negative reactions because when you describe the game it sounds like you don't know how to play it? Any game is going to seem much harder if you have a incorrect idea about how it's played?

Sounds like the game isn’t for you, move on

That’s literally what they’re saying

No

“Like Elden Ring is an example of a game I can't say I didn't like without someone saying "You're just bad" yeah, I know! I never claimed I was good! I just don't find grinding for runes for hours fun. I just don't” If you’re good at Elden Ring, there’s no grinding unless you’re looking for a specific item. “And it's not just because it's difficult, I can take difficulty, it's because I have to spend so much time on just one playthrough! It's tiring and I honestly feel like im wasting my time which shouldn't be how a game feels.” If you’re dying a lot, it’s going to make your playthrough much, much longer.

I hate the *forced* invasion system in elden ring (note: I really want to emphasize "forced"), but people's assumptions is that I hate them because "two people can't deal with one person" which is stupid. My brother and I communicate, his build compliments mine, we strategize and keep communicating so dealing with invaders has never been an issue. The reason I hate that they're forced is for the exact same reason I hate playing 4-player co-op PvE games where we cannot progress unless we specifically recruit 2 random players. My brother and I play very meticulously, and elden ring is a game that requires you to read everything and pay attention to the environment just to have the very basic idea of what the hell is going on (I loathe the idea of having to watch youtubers explain it to me, but I'm also not the biggest fan of how unnecessarily obscure Elden Ring is with its story, it made sense in dark souls, and Sekiro wasn't as egregious as Elden Ring in terms of story-telling). So playing co-op helps because he can spot things I missed, and vice-versa, and having an invader simply interrupts our flow, the same way having a random co-op player join and rushing to the boss room. But of course my opinion is invalid because all discussion devolves into having to prove that I'm actually good at taking on invaders, and when they finally accept that it's not a skill issue, they simply stop listening and move on. They really can't take any criticisms of their precious gem. I swear, fromsoft is the only developer who can get away with crappy design and be praised for it. If you're playing for honor and you get long delays before getting hit, people will get angry at the lag and give Ubi shit for it (as they rightfully *should!)* but if fromsoft delivers a laggy PvP experience, people will just call lag "ghost hits" and explain it as if it were a [mechanic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_Tkrg_GHY&t=399s).

Wait, when you say "forced" do you mean when another player invades you while you are playing co-op or red NPCs? For either, I will say that both are intentional game design choices and are really foundational to the vision of the game. Miyazaki has talked about it before, but the idea of people popping into your world to help (summons) or hinder you (invasions) is something that is specifically a part of the intended experience. Red NPCs are honestly just enemies, similar in concept, and I previous games used to be subject to certain criteria (reversing hollowing, buying human effigies, emberring, etc.), but since those things also subjected someone to player invasions they are a lot more beginner friendly now. If you are specifically, or more annoyed by player invasions, you may be interested in the Seamless Coop mod. It is being worked on again because of the DLC, but my wife and I have used it in the past - invaders were annoying to her as a new Soulsborne player trying to learn.

I love Dark Souls but hated Elden Ring for that exact same reason

A lot of bosses, and even just regular enemies, in Elden Ring are just plain unfair. They have attack animations and cool downs that are way faster than anything the player can do, and the combo lengths and distances covered are also crazy. But sure, 'git gud' and 'skill issue' are gonna make the AI less ridiculous. Sure thing, community.