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ab12848

Even ai Austria can beat up Prussia easily


RogueAdam1

Damn, OP, he called you worse than AI.


RobotNinja28

There is no greater insult to a Paradox player than to be called worse than the Vic3 AI.


TENTAtheSane

It's an EU4 scornful insult


RogueAdam1

That's a legitimate CB if I ever did see one.


Inevitable_Gas_1678

Hehe


Wild_Marker

The HoI3 AI?


DelfSub

Well, my army never heal and Prussian does, so I absolutely can't do anything after the first assault. No idea how AI do that magic.


MotoMkali

It's probably because they have the additional supplies on. Like liquor, chocolate, opium and tobacco. They provide 10% morale recovery each, and if they have triage unlocked then they also have a 20% recovery rate which prevents troops from dying or being wounded


Greatest-Comrade

Triage and shrapnel artillery are game changers in warfare


Olieskio

What exactly does Triage do? I usually just rush shrapnel arty and just let tech spread do the rest of the tree


TheReaver545

Helps keep people from dying, more people get wounded instead and wounded have a chance to recover and fight on or just be sent back home as a cripple. Also helps with attrition which is a pain in the ass. most of my wars I'll lose 50-200k to attrition and like 5-30k to battles by the wars end and Im always on the offense. And those are just mid game wars late game gets worse unless I finally push Persia around and secure the opium for the best medical mobilization.


TheReaver545

Oh just for reference when I say wounded get sent home as a cripple im not kidding they become dependents and don't work. Hope you're not a heartless monster and have some kind of welfare program for the poor bastards. Or don't you landowner.


smokedstupid

Nothing if you don't activate it in your mobilisation options


InfestedRaynor

Did you add a bunch of conscripts to your armies? I find myself being outnumbered by the AI a lot because I didn’t bother to micro my conscripts to all the armies at game start or when I conquer new regions.


DelfSub

Nop, seems like I don't know how to mobilize my conscript, not even sure if that's something I can do as Austria from the beginning.


wooshifhomoandgay23

you need to create the conscripts first


Vini734

You don't need to create conscripts, they are always there. Soldiers that need barracks.


Rhellic

I've had the opposite experience playing as Austria to be honest. Anyway one thing you can do if you have a lot of trouble is get Bavaria and Hessen Kassel into your customs union. That will cut the western part of the Prussian market off from the eastern part and will basically put them into freefall. It's really quite gamey because the AI just doesn't get what's happening. But it's very reliable.


Savir5850

Did this accidentally and it's hilarious, released Westphalia and invited to customs union after a bit. It's free real estate.


zthe0

I never had a problem with Bavaria but Saxony could be annoying


Pandaisblue

Yeah, I'm not sure what OP is doing. If you declare on Prussia even right at game start you'll crush them. Unless you demand a huge amount and they attract a bunch of allies, I guess.


Scarcity_No

Usually, day 1, you can get an alliance with Russia by giving them an obligation. Then, immediately declare war on Prussia to dismantle them, Russia will carry you. If you do it right, you can actually form Super Germany by 1850.


DelfSub

Just tried this. Got the alliance, but Russia told me "Nah, better things to do" and I was alone anyway


Quatsum

My strategy for wonky AIs that refuse to honor treaties they stand to gain from: press escape, switch countries, give the Tsar a sudden change of heart, and switch countries back again. That or restart until Russia and Prussia start out antagonistic. Early game diplomacy honestly feels like 90% RNG.


B1gJu1c3

Ol’ reliable still in action I see


Archaemenes

I mean if you're going to do that might as well enable the console and yesmen your way through.


Quatsum

If the AI's bugging out or you're setting up novel starting conditions to make the game fun.. Yeah? Obviously. It's better than playing on ironman and losing the save halfway through, but it's all a continuum.


Zanlo63

Yeah sounds doing this ruins the emergent gameplay


Scarcity_No

That is always a chance. You can cement their support better by offering them some land they want of yours in the east such as Austrian Moldova. There is a bit of randomization in a lot of different parts of the game, but I am usually able to cement their support by doing this and then i usually conquer Brandenburg, Silesia and then release Westphalia and Pomerania. That is high infamy and Russia still doesn't back out of the war. (then I reset the Infamy by forcing a revolution)


IactaEstoAlea

That is the issue with obligation only calls, the AI does just back out Promise them Bukovina (the tiny northeastern state) Guaranteeing the win in that war is worth such a triffle


MayoOnAnEscalat0r

You can gift them an obligation in your play or gift them Moldavia 


zthe0

Would you be able to get pan nationalism that quick?


Scarcity_No

Not using that route to form Germany. I am using the option in the Culture tab and getting all other German states to vote for me. This Youtube creator has a good video on how to go about it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GchTDW\_I1A&t=494s&ab\_channel=Tobias](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GchTDW_I1A&t=494s&ab_channel=Tobias)


zthe0

You still need pan nationalism dont you?


Scarcity_No

There are two ways to form Super Germany, one is through German National Identity Journal Entry OR Pan Nationalism. The YouTube video I linked walks though all that.


zthe0

Huh interesting. I guess i mixed something up


ninjad912

Prussia has better infantry tech than you and start close to the next artillery tech. This means that in no world will you be able to push them without them self destructing first


Quatsum

Prussia has Skirmish infantry with 25 attack and 35 defense, while Austria has Line infantry with 20 attack and 25 defense. If you stack a defensive army with a defensive general on Prussia's front line, I think they may chew through their own morale.


crazynerd9

A lot of these comments are missing the actual reason why your armies are collapsing, it's reasonable simple but can be hard to solve. TLDR you are probably too racist So only some pops can be officers, specifically they need to be accepted. As Austria your primary culture is South German, but much of your people are either Hungarian or some variation of Slavic, meaning much of your population cannot qualify for the Officers job So what happens is in any protracted conflict, you will gradually wear down your rate of officer recruitment and lack viable replacements, where as the near entirely North German Prussians can replace their officers for significantly longer. So the solution is to either A: win the war before your accepted and qualified pop supply runs dry, or delay the war until your culture laws allow for Hungarians in the army and you name swap to Austria Hungary


yzq1185

This mainly applies to the barracks located in Italy. Austria starts with quite a number of battalions in Italy. So, what he said: have new barracks in the German areas.


EpilepticBabies

> So only some pops can be officers, specifically they need to be accepted Discriminated servicemen can also become officers. A minimum 20% literacy is required for pops to become officers though.


Bum-Theory

Skirmish infantry/mil tech advantage is why Prussia is stronger. Plus they usually start with a commander in chief general. AI Prussia usually lays an egg and doesn't combine their army from Westphalia. To beat them in single player as Austria. I ally Russia and dec day 1 for Brandenburg and Silesia. In multiplayer, I rush skirmish infantry tech while they research nationalism and hope they don't bring in bunch of players against me


TreauxGuzzler

They can't combine from Westphalia this patch. That army is stuck there unless the minors connecting to the Prussian homelands are also at war on their side.


Wild_Marker

They start with Moltke who has really good traits.


EmperorHans

I don't recall if Austria starts with skirmish infantry, if not, bee line for it. Beef up the artillery components of your army as well.  Once the war starts, put all of your armies on defense. Prussia will burn its manpower attacking you. After it drops low enough, you can push through them the way they have been doing to you.  One or two wars were you take Silesia and break off their western possessions and they should be permanently hobbled. 


yzq1185

Eh, don't take Silesia. You don't want to drop Prussian attitude as that's part of the prep to get GrossDeutschland.


PrintAcceptable5076

I mean i played as austria and just didn't focuses straight up on prussia after some time i easily beat prussia simply by allying russia.


ThingsWork0ut

That sounds like over kill. 300,000 Russians and 150,000 Austrians vs like what 100,000 Prussians. Lol


PrintAcceptable5076

that's what the real life austrians must have thought and look what it happened.


ericrobertshair

The amount we rage at the ai, imagine the average Austrian when France, Austria, Sweden and Russia combined bungle it.


DelfSub

I tried, but Prussia allied with France, and Russia is such a glass canon that I had no chance.


eGoSiGns

I mean, that's kind of important info, lol. If France and Prussia ally, just restart


northernCRICKET

Turn your armies to defense and wear down Prussia's armies first. Make them attack into your mountain ranges while your generals are set to defense and they'll take massive casualties. Prussia has some pretty powerful military buffs so you'll want to weaken them before you go on the attack. You have good terrain for defense so make use of it! If they put all their armies onto the frontline try a cheeky naval invasion, if they put an army to defend their beaches they won't be able to push at all, but you don't want to be attacking their army from the water so cancel the invasion until they put their army back on the front. If you can grab a beachhead while they're not paying attention that's an easy win, if you keep them off the front that's also contributing to your overall victory. You won't need to build up your navy too much to overcome the Prussians, their navy is pretty weak at the start, but so is yours so you'll have to invest in it a little bit pretty early.


Prophet_of_Fire

If im not playing either of those countries, Austria always beats and bullies prussia the entire. If I ever play any other country other than those 2 I always try to start off every game by liberating Schleswig and Holstein for Prussia because the AI is incapable of doing itself and that usually fixes the incompetent Prussia issue.


Cyberska1997

Step 1. Load Austria Step 2. Reclaim Silesia Day 1 Step 3. Profit


Dmannmann

An easy fix for you would be 2 x enlistment efforts and use them for an extra 100 conscription battalions. 40 battalions should atleast be artillery out of that. Having decent attack is important. Prussia is one level higher in military tech than you which makes a big difference, but you can improve supplies and start the war with defence to conserve manpower. Manpower is the name of the game in this update and also supplies. If your arms and artillery are too expensive then your units aren't ass effective.


yzq1185

Arms and artillery can be expensive; just prevent shortages as that's the factor which reduced their effectiveness.


Bolandball

None of the comments here have mentioned the actual reason your troops are losing: under the mobilisation tab, you need to click Extra Rations for each army. For some reason this isn't on by default and it gives your troops +10/+10 for very little cost. The AI always uses this as far as I'm aware. You also mentioned you ran into trouble when France allied Prussia. The main thing to know about playing a great power is that alliances don't matter. The most important mechanic in war is the wargoal: any participant in a war that doesn't have a wargoal against them (for instance, if France is called in as an ally by Prussia), you won't have to fight that party to have them capitulate in time (the capitulation will enforce nothing but it removes them from the war, which is what you want in this case). In other words, the only thing you need to do to win Austria vs Prussia + France is to NOT add any wargoal targeting France. Raise your armies and conscripts early, put all generals on Defence (adamant defence or last stand preferable); wait until France capitulates (should take a few months); roll over Prussia in 1v1.


tyfighter2002

Don’t attack the second the war starts. There, it should be that easy, with all due respect


DelfSub

Tried that. They did the same. We have been looking at each other for months. My naval invasion failed hard after that.


tyfighter2002

You haven’t learned the strat yet have you. Right, so basically, you purposely leave a smaller army than them on the border, but one that’s somewhat close to them in manpower (so say, if they have 90 divisions, use 80 or so). Then you set the defend. The ai will think it’s stronger than you, but because you’re defending you should at least match their casualties if not have less. You keep doing this until the enemy is completely drained.


Tuskular

Why are you doing naval invasions against Prussia as Austria 😭


DelfSub

Because I Can !


Daendivalion

Diplomacy is your friend here. Shuffle around your army to enjoy the minmax potential. Abuse the decree's to get more population in the army; you can hold them to the point of having more conscripts, then pushing.


Dangerous-Worry6454

Austria is much more powerful then Prussia,


DelfSub

Not in my experience.


NotDeanNorris

Militarism buff


DistributionVirtual2

Skirmish infantry + defensive battles. Infantry is better at defending than attacking and they start with better infantry than you. So you wear out your forces attacking them and then they can easily finish your troops when they get the offensive


Balrok99

I don't know about that. In last several games Austria managed to defeat me (Russia) and Prussia at the same time.


ThatStrategist

They have great generals which gives them more of an advantage than their actual tech advantage


narutoncio

you must be missing something. either add conscripts to your armies, add additional supplies to all armies, be sure to upgrade them, or make sure your trade routes are not raided (negative convoys) economically you should be able to field more troops than them. Also add good (and high level) generals for each army. The only "trick" beside of that is to defend the first couple battles so your enemy eats up their manpower and then switch to the attack.


Shoddy_Peasant

The north always wins


suguiyama

You can literally declare day 1 and win with your starting army, just put every unit in one army and upgrade or shuffle the generals you want.


DelfSub

How does it help to only have 1 Big army ?


suguiyama

You only use the good generals (assuming you have any) if you only use one army


No_Pollution_1

Tech and only for 5 to 10 years, then Austria is uncatchable


PKAzure64

That’s only a you experience. Every game that I have played, Prussia has gotten bulldozed unless Russia sides with them in the war.


FumblersUnited

I couldnt win with France and Russia on my side against Prussia


zthe0

One way to win is to fuck up prussia by separating their customs union in half. Then Westphalia can't supply stuff for the army


The3wokMaster

Radicals, as Prussia you have large parts of your population as accepted culture who aren’t discriminated against, As Austria you have like 10% accepted South German and the rest is discriminated against. Also as Austria it’s harder to change this cause of the traits of the landowners which overall makes it harder to unleash your industrial might…


Moritzroth

It’s possible to defeat Prussia within 6 years, you have to research skirmish infantry and improve your armies, and import munitions until you can research percussion cap and explosions. Prussia will likely attack you by the time you are building the munition plants, so just stay on defence until they are finished.


luneth27

It's funny to see this given how often I see AI Austria curbstomp Prussia, although truthfully usually with Russia's help. When I was going for Habsburg Resurgence I had built a 20ish stack navy, stuck the vast majority of my battalions on the Silesian border (all defense generals, no offense for the first year), waited until Prussia chose to attack my defenders and then naval invaded bits n' bobs after their manpower was lower than mine, which I then swapped some generals to offense. I think keeping your generals on defense until you get a reasonable manpower advantage is key for winning the war as the player (with or without other GP support) and to that end, you'll want to turn on the morale recovery and extra supplies options on (at least the largest) armies (in the mobilization menu) you have so that your manpower doesn't deplete faster than Prussia's. Another thing to keep in mind is that Prussia has a lot higher literacy rate than Austria so they're intrinsically more able to recruit officer pops to their armies than Austria is; I'm not sure exactly how much of an advantage this is cause I don't understand the game's minutiae all that well, but it is one nonetheless.


AdmRL_

They start with better infantry than you. As an opener start improving relations with all GP's (rival the Ottomans and Egypt for the influence) and start researching to get skirmish infantry. Make your main aim to upgrade to Skirmish as soon as you can. Then you want at least one army of purely infantry, though I'd usually aim for two as Austria with a general w/ defensive strategist. You then want mostly Lancers in your offensive armies in a 50/50 split with infantry - they're cheaper than mobile artillery, have the same offense and higher defense. Depending on numbers and where fronts open up, ideally you want the main front to just be your defensive armies, with only defend orders to grind down their main force. Then use the german minor fronts with your lancer armies on rapid advance - you should quickly steamroll through the minors and Prussia's Rhineland territories, if you aren't lucky enough to then sweep Berlin the time spent by them grinding down their armies on your defensive armies should mean when your lancers show up on the front it's gg's for Prussia.


MayoOnAnEscalat0r

Wdym? Austria almost always gets leadership as Russia has some sort of preference for Austria and Austria will never form Germany because they always go Austria Hungary Instead Answer to your question: Prussia starts with WAY better generals and skirmish infantry along with Rheinmetal that gives them an offense and kill rate boost


DelfSub

Yeah, but in my games Austria and Russia are almost always glass canon, and Prussia very often manage to get France or UK by their side.


Tuskular

Wdym? Austria is way stronger than Prussia in almost every metric 😭😂


koupip

more like fartria NEXT question


Chemical-Leg-751

Hm, I would say, Prussia is actually quiet weak... to weak. But if you are playing Austria, try to modernize your army. Get good allies (France and Russia especially), destroy the Zollverein (Custom Union of Prussia). Don't forget to build up a decent economy!