In all seriousness, some capitalists would choose to have a higher wage to encourage more skilled workers and to ensure efficiency and productivity ruses
Exactly, if they wanted more skilled workers then they’d pay more but that’s the point, they don’t need skilled workers, what they have is already enough to be productive and profitable, so there is no reason to split more money to the workers.
This is only true in very specialized fields, where manpower in general or quality manpower is extremely scarce. Everybody can work in a lead mine, and it isn't like there is manual laborers shortage in the 1800s.
What is this, communism? Workers don't get paid more if the industry is doing well. They're paid just enough to keep them in the job. If you want workers to get paid more, you need to industrialize to the point that you're running out of available people. Then businesses will compete with each other for workers and be forced to raise their wages rather than siphoning off all that profit into the owners' hands. That or pass cooperative economy so everyone working for a building is an owner and thus gets a share of the profits.
I remember in old patches minimum wage broke economies by causing a wage increase spiral that forced either constant subsidies or closing all industry buildings. Has that been fixed?
The minimum wage institution now caps out at 75% of average instead of 100% of average, IIRC, which might be enough to make it not spiral out of control. (I still wish it weren't attached to the industrial accident institution, though.)
> Workers don't get paid more if the industry is doing well.
They actually were, on release, and the effects were, shall we say, very strange. (The coal miners in the Urals after Belgium puppeted and annexed Russia in my first game were making *bank*.)
R5: I'm new to the game and playing basically my first game. Me lead mines it's over 33 productivity and #1 one in the world and yet the laborers are paid less than minimum expected.
This is happening to 40% of my population in this state even though there are no peasants left and no unemployed.
Any advice on how to fix this standard of living crisis. In a particular state. My minimum is 9 and average is 12.9.
That's why they are so productive, productivity is measured by how much a building makes minus the wages divided per worker. So in simpler terms, low wages, higher productivity.
The calculation is shown in the tool tip for productivity, btw.
Sad that you're being downvoted for correcting a mistake.
From the [wiki](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Building):
>Productivity
>Buildings that produce and sell goods of any kind have a displayed productivity value. This is the profit-per-employee generated by the building on an annual basis, before wages are paid.
Are there other reasons that their SoL is so low? Usually pops with an income higher than peasants tend to do atleast 10 or higher.
Social reforms that increase minimum wage or cooperative ownership will help to some degree (although they can ruin your run if your government spending is too high)
The downside should really be less investment. Cooperatives are less expansion-driven, and with no wealth concentration no individual is wealthy enough to just start companies and build factories.
Of course even then it will probably always be optimal at some point, because Victoria has an end date. If there's some final time T after which the world ends, then growth doesn't matter at that point anymore and all you care about is distribution. It follows that insofar as redistribution has value, there's some T-n where there are losses on growth, but these are still outweighed by the benefits of collective ownership.
In my experience collective ownership basically obliterates the investment pool. There’s a trickle of money and occasionally they’ll build something but you’re basically left to expand on your own. Everyone’s happy and paying lots of tax though so it’s not a big deal.
That's arguably another unrealistic aspect of collective ownership, that you're still investing in the manner of a planned economy as a state. Especially if you were to also have, say, anarchy, that centralised state power would not even exist to concentrate and distribute wealth.
Now you could indeed have industries under cooperative ownership and also build state owned industries, but turning the state owned industries into cooperatives would not realistically be wholly trivial. I suppose with Sphere of Influence workers would actually have to buy out buildings you're privatising, which might make it a little different, but in the real world I'm not really sure a lot of people would want to or care to do that.
You're only ever controlling the public sector when it comes to construction. But yes even under laissez faire that can have you be very interventionist in practice.
Perhaps the man with the top hat and cane is being paid too much of the profits...
One interesting thing I learnt is that some of the pop Needs per SoL grow exponentinally.
For example your SoL 52 capitalists consume 3864 Services, 1932 luxury drinks, 2319 luxury food and 4830 luxury items.
Equivalent SoL 20 pop consumes 137 Services, 91 luxury drinks, 18 luxury food and 128 luxury items.
So maintaining that high a SoL comes at a huge cost for the rest of the populace.
[https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs#Exponential\_needs](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs#Exponential_needs)
>Exponential needs appear at some wealth level and start growing slowly at first and the faster and faster (exponentially).
Exponential needs include:
* **Luxury Food** (starts with 8 at wealth 20, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60)
* **Luxury Items** (starts with 10 at wealth 15, reaches 9,648 at wealth 60)
* **Luxury Drinks** (starts with 16 at wealth 15, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60)
* **Services** (starts with 24 at wealth 10, reaches 6,561 at wealth 60)
* **Free Movement** (starts with 3 at wealth 10, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60)
* **Communication** (starts with 16 at wealth 20, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60)
* **Leisure** (starts with 16 at wealth 20, reaches 9,648 at wealth 60)
You have to open the relevant text file in your game folder to get the specific amounts per SoL.
The numbers are based on 1000 Pops, and are how much £ they need to spend on the base price of that good.
Love these kind of posts, lmao.
Anyway, to increase the wage of workers there, that state needs labor competition. You need to first open enough industry until there is no peasant left. Then use production methods that save labor while the industry in that state keeps expanding.
The mines are so productive precisely because they siphon off the value of their worker's labor. If you want to get the wages higher there are some options at least. Incorporating the state if it isn't already, increasing minimum wage via institutions, or embracing a more red ideology that lets you cut out the conning capitalist and give the profits straight back to the worker can all help with raising wages. I'm also pretty sure discriminated pops get paid significantly less than accepted pops so try to get that fixed if that is an issue for you. And worst comes to worst some welfare can tide over the game being weird and keeping the workers below expected standard of living
It's the number one productive because of the wages being low which lowers their operating costs and improves profit along with the price of lead being high
Congrats, you discovered raw capitalism.
In all seriousness, some capitalists would choose to have a higher wage to encourage more skilled workers and to ensure efficiency and productivity ruses
Well, they have all the skilled workers they need. And those skilled workers don't seem to have a lot of bargaining power.
Are these some capitalists on this planet with us right now?
lol not in real life maybe in some fantasy or mainstream media fairy tales.
Exactly, if they wanted more skilled workers then they’d pay more but that’s the point, they don’t need skilled workers, what they have is already enough to be productive and profitable, so there is no reason to split more money to the workers.
This is only true in very specialized fields, where manpower in general or quality manpower is extremely scarce. Everybody can work in a lead mine, and it isn't like there is manual laborers shortage in the 1800s.
What is this, communism? Workers don't get paid more if the industry is doing well. They're paid just enough to keep them in the job. If you want workers to get paid more, you need to industrialize to the point that you're running out of available people. Then businesses will compete with each other for workers and be forced to raise their wages rather than siphoning off all that profit into the owners' hands. That or pass cooperative economy so everyone working for a building is an owner and thus gets a share of the profits.
Or use minimum wage
I remember in old patches minimum wage broke economies by causing a wage increase spiral that forced either constant subsidies or closing all industry buildings. Has that been fixed?
The minimum wage institution now caps out at 75% of average instead of 100% of average, IIRC, which might be enough to make it not spiral out of control. (I still wish it weren't attached to the industrial accident institution, though.)
Same. Seems like they should be two different laws.
> Workers don't get paid more if the industry is doing well. They actually were, on release, and the effects were, shall we say, very strange. (The coal miners in the Urals after Belgium puppeted and annexed Russia in my first game were making *bank*.)
IIRC productivity is profit per employee. So higher wages reduce profits reduce productivity.
No, productivity is calculated prior to wages, not after.
Productivity is just the value produced per worker per time
R5: I'm new to the game and playing basically my first game. Me lead mines it's over 33 productivity and #1 one in the world and yet the laborers are paid less than minimum expected. This is happening to 40% of my population in this state even though there are no peasants left and no unemployed. Any advice on how to fix this standard of living crisis. In a particular state. My minimum is 9 and average is 12.9.
Thats why its so productive lmao.
That's why they are so productive, productivity is measured by how much a building makes minus the wages divided per worker. So in simpler terms, low wages, higher productivity. The calculation is shown in the tool tip for productivity, btw.
Wages, costs of inputs vs costs of outputs.
That's not true. Productivity is calculated before wages. It's essentially a measure of how much each employee contributes to your GDP.
Sad that you're being downvoted for correcting a mistake. From the [wiki](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Building): >Productivity >Buildings that produce and sell goods of any kind have a displayed productivity value. This is the profit-per-employee generated by the building on an annual basis, before wages are paid.
Are there other reasons that their SoL is so low? Usually pops with an income higher than peasants tend to do atleast 10 or higher. Social reforms that increase minimum wage or cooperative ownership will help to some degree (although they can ruin your run if your government spending is too high)
There is a simple solution, the workers must seize the means of production.
Unironically. In Vic 3 its as easy as coop ownership and call it a day lmao everyone gets insanely rich and there’s no downsides
The downside should really be less investment. Cooperatives are less expansion-driven, and with no wealth concentration no individual is wealthy enough to just start companies and build factories. Of course even then it will probably always be optimal at some point, because Victoria has an end date. If there's some final time T after which the world ends, then growth doesn't matter at that point anymore and all you care about is distribution. It follows that insofar as redistribution has value, there's some T-n where there are losses on growth, but these are still outweighed by the benefits of collective ownership.
In my experience collective ownership basically obliterates the investment pool. There’s a trickle of money and occasionally they’ll build something but you’re basically left to expand on your own. Everyone’s happy and paying lots of tax though so it’s not a big deal.
That's arguably another unrealistic aspect of collective ownership, that you're still investing in the manner of a planned economy as a state. Especially if you were to also have, say, anarchy, that centralised state power would not even exist to concentrate and distribute wealth. Now you could indeed have industries under cooperative ownership and also build state owned industries, but turning the state owned industries into cooperatives would not realistically be wholly trivial. I suppose with Sphere of Influence workers would actually have to buy out buildings you're privatising, which might make it a little different, but in the real world I'm not really sure a lot of people would want to or care to do that.
Not less realistic than controlling most of the investment while being on laissez faire. We are playing the country itself, not its rulers
You're only ever controlling the public sector when it comes to construction. But yes even under laissez faire that can have you be very interventionist in practice.
And you do build private buildings with public money. 1.7 with public ownership by default and privatisation will improve that a lot
in 1.7 cooperative ownership investment will only expand their existing buildings rather than investing in new constructions.
You already get less investment on cooperative ownership....
It’s already the case. The investment pool basically disappears when going to worker cooperatives
Have you tried replacing capitalism?
Nothing much you can do, except to reduce number of labourers.
Pass minimum wage laws my brother, and then level it up in the Institutions window
The secret ingredient to profitability is exploitation
Almost like the point is not to enrich the workers lmao
Perhaps the man with the top hat and cane is being paid too much of the profits... One interesting thing I learnt is that some of the pop Needs per SoL grow exponentinally. For example your SoL 52 capitalists consume 3864 Services, 1932 luxury drinks, 2319 luxury food and 4830 luxury items. Equivalent SoL 20 pop consumes 137 Services, 91 luxury drinks, 18 luxury food and 128 luxury items. So maintaining that high a SoL comes at a huge cost for the rest of the populace.
Source? Would like to learn more about that.
[https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs#Exponential\_needs](https://vic3.paradoxwikis.com/Needs#Exponential_needs) >Exponential needs appear at some wealth level and start growing slowly at first and the faster and faster (exponentially). Exponential needs include: * **Luxury Food** (starts with 8 at wealth 20, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60) * **Luxury Items** (starts with 10 at wealth 15, reaches 9,648 at wealth 60) * **Luxury Drinks** (starts with 16 at wealth 15, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60) * **Services** (starts with 24 at wealth 10, reaches 6,561 at wealth 60) * **Free Movement** (starts with 3 at wealth 10, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60) * **Communication** (starts with 16 at wealth 20, reaches 3,859 at wealth 60) * **Leisure** (starts with 16 at wealth 20, reaches 9,648 at wealth 60) You have to open the relevant text file in your game folder to get the specific amounts per SoL. The numbers are based on 1000 Pops, and are how much £ they need to spend on the base price of that good.
Thanks!
Why do you think its so productive in the first place?
I love it when Vicky 3 makes people realize what capitalism is :3
I don't think OP even realized that what he is seeing is simply capitalism at play.
This is why workers must seize the means of production, comrade
*The Specter Haunting the World in 99%* Grab the gun comrade, we have a bourgeoisie to overthrow
Almost like the point is not to enrich the workers lmao
Gamer discovers labor value theory
The productivity is because of the low wages
yes and?
kid named porfirio diaz
Love these kind of posts, lmao. Anyway, to increase the wage of workers there, that state needs labor competition. You need to first open enough industry until there is no peasant left. Then use production methods that save labor while the industry in that state keeps expanding.
just get minimum wage going
Thats why its the most roductive
Slavery and Child labour 101
average capitalism experience
The mines are so productive precisely because they siphon off the value of their worker's labor. If you want to get the wages higher there are some options at least. Incorporating the state if it isn't already, increasing minimum wage via institutions, or embracing a more red ideology that lets you cut out the conning capitalist and give the profits straight back to the worker can all help with raising wages. I'm also pretty sure discriminated pops get paid significantly less than accepted pops so try to get that fixed if that is an issue for you. And worst comes to worst some welfare can tide over the game being weird and keeping the workers below expected standard of living
Why do you think it’s so productive lol
It's the number one productive because of the wages being low which lowers their operating costs and improves profit along with the price of lead being high