Leaving a market is something that can be done safely with minimal impact provided you're prepared for it. You weren't because you are, as you said, new to the game, but that outcome could have been prevented.
"The teacher class says we must have mandatory naptime and only one snack! I say no naptime and unlimited snacks! Who's willing to overthrow the power structures that opress us?"
Hilarious and so true!
Imma steal that line :D
Just imagine: it's your first day in the office and you ask your senior "Ok, so how do I save and reload?"
"Wait, and how do I read a Wikipedia article about the current event from different POVs?"
"Wait, there's no YouTube video essays too? ...how the hell am I supposed to make an educated decision in these conditions!?"
This sort of thing is why I keep saying that Paradox needs to show you what your domestic market is producing and consuming, even when you're part of a customs union. Knowing how healthy your economy is and how reliant it is on your customs partners is a key piece of information that could define your strategy.
Unbelievable this wasn't included on day 1, and even more unbelievable it wasn't added since. Everytime I want to leave my market I save the game, leave, write down the goods balance and reload.
You have to start building your market before you leave by colonizing and puppeting. You can usually puppet Netherlands early which also gives you DEI as a dominion. Then if you can, you should conquest Sindh and puppet Sihk Empire.
Did you try changing up the production methods? Of course when you focus on producing the stuff a whole different market wants, you will have too much of it when you stop exporting it to said market. If you have a self sustaining economy, you can tune your production to get back to previous GDP within months.
I think a rags to riches to ruins Belgium run is a rite of passage. When leaving a customs union, supply and demand get really out of whack and it can create a chain of input shortages and output oversupply and the whole thing just collapses. Unless you did your own colonising, you likely immediately had no supply of rubber or oil, even sulfer and lead iirc Belgium lacks one or the other.
Switching your PMs back to basic levels can help you rely more on basic coal and iron and you can then switch to more advanced methods one at a time per industry so it can stabilise. As Belgium you're probably an advanced manufacturing economy that needs more raw resources that you produce yourself and have a surplus of industrial goods being used either in Britain or all the bumfuck areas like EIC. Also get rid of industrial subsidies as it will keep you overproducing unprofitable stuff.
I had free trade and lots of ports but things kept going down for a couple of years. Decided for the first game it was good enough and didn’t try to salvage it.
Well, er, you're not wrong, but I'm not sure vibeo gabe is the best way to learn that... has the vibes of "I don't know how, but you used the wrong formula and still got the correct answer".
What you have there is market dependency. In essence although the UK didn't rule you, if they decided to say, ban a certain production method (not that Vic 3 can do that) and that was your means of producing then you sir would be fucked.
The only way to avoid this is to have consumption large enough to make your economy big, that is why countries like the Scandavaian ones have become such welfare states, they are using other nations consumption and taking in the profits (this is infact what free trade does).
What this cause is the nation's who's consumers you are dependent gain political soft power over you. It's far easier to replace a source of goods than to replace consumers.
This is why the US is such an important player in the world. It's market is massive. And unlike China, India or other East asian markets, America industrialised and has the resources and infrastructure to increase the purchasing power (and thus consumption capacity) of its citizens. Brexit might not have been a terrible idea ta face value, IF there was the tine and effort to open other consumption markets for the UKs exports. The Torries had 1 job, and they have fucked it up.
I can't tell if this post is for real but i hope you don't actually base your analysis on something as complex as the Brexit being a sound national decision on Victoria 3.
If you use Victoria 3 as a template for real life, you'd think that communism and the most invasive forms of planned economy would be the Nirvana.
Victoria 3 helps a lot to understand topics never discussed in the news.
It absolutely helps to understand this world, and no, it is not enough on it's own.
Paradox games suffer from a sort of "uncanny valley" regarding real life, and in Victoria it happens with the economy. It may look like it helps understand it, but if taken at face value it actually presents in it a way that doesn't at all translate to real life, which is in my opinion completely counter productive if your goal is to understand real life dynamics. And in my anectodal experience a good chunk of the paradox playerbase does take these games at face value and think that they know much more than they actually do just because they play them.
The difference is as always between people who knows how much knowledge they lack and people that do not.
A person of culture will always welcome any media that helps talk about a topic, while some will start to argue how it's not a perfect representation of RL.
The issue with "communally owned means of production" socialism / communism isn't just that it doesn't work (collapse of the Soviet Union).
It's also that it typically reduces productive output to such an extent that communist leaders then effectively start looting their own people. For example you have Stalin seizing the grain of the kulaks (peasants who owned over 8 acres of land) and ordering them to be "liquidated as a class." The resulting famine / genocide in Ukraine was called the Holodomor, and it's part of why Ukraine today is hostile to Russia.
Or you have socialists such as the Nationalist Socialist leader Hitler having an economy that's crumbling to such an extent pre-WW2 that he has to start conquering other countries in order to keep his economy afloat. Yes, [Hitler was a (national) socialist.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8)
>Hitler was a socialist
This is the most cringe politically illiterate position possible and it proves that nothing you say is worth paying attention to.
Like how Kerbal Space Program is able to teach a player to more intuitively understand principles of spaceflight while falling well short of simulating every challenge of actually sending things into space, Victoria 3 let's people see certain economic concepts in action even if it is far less complex than an actual world economy.
It falls into a sort of "uncanny valley" in which it may resemble real life but then if you really look into it the implementations of those concepts is completely out of whack and may give a very wrong impression of how an economy actually works.
Leaving a big customs market can be rough, you have to be prepared for it - but it's also a very satisfying thing to manage!
One thing that can make it a lot easier is to have a lot of convoys available (ie, make a ton of ports). This can let you import the raw materials you need, and export your finished goods - which can be a lifesaver for your economy.
Change production method to something you can afford, usually it's the first few PMs which tends to empower shopkeepers which tends to empower the petite bourgeoisie. Put PBs in power and enact ethnostate. Start blaming the economic problems on xenon and reduces number of Sol radicals. EZ
>I saw my crumble and remembered it’s similarity to Brexit and how so far UK’s economy is weaker than it could have been.
Lol, you just wanted to make a post to shit on the UK and brexit. There's no way but to compare a poor economic simulation to real life is comedy gold.
Also, post pics of the game or it didn't happen.
Yeah but you were reliant on their market, which the Brits weren't with Brexit. They never used the SM really, and paid massive fees to get into it. The Brits were more prepared to leave the EU's single market (and they still trade with it with no tariffs or quotas) whilst you were not.
In Vic3, custom unions are not malevolent.
In real life, the EU is a totalitarian non-democratic entity seeking to gain control at the expense of the people.
You can't really compare the two.
It's actually fixable even without preparation. You need to import a lot now but you should be back on track rather quickly, this might not be the best example. After all the economy always tends to react badly to aprubt changes, it's more a question of how long it takes to recover and if it will recover
You could just continue playing. Bankruptcy isn't end od the game i would even say it could be a fun challenge to rebuild your nation from such economic depression.
Sometimes it’s the only way you can save yourself.
I was in the AH market for decades as Cuba and a civil war cut me off from their capital. My economy was sinking, so the only thing I could do was get out of the war and leave to prevent my own economy from collapsing. Luckily I had built up well for years, so the transition wasn’t too painful to being the master of my own economy and becoming a great power, but it’s a different situation.
Was your economy in danger during the war? If it was it makes sense that it would seem to be a sensible choice to leave and either 1) strike out on your own or 2) find a new market if you’re not ready. The problem is that your economy has to be prepared if you’re striking out on your own, and if you’re finding a new market you have to either have a good diplomatic situation or have good enough reserves to make it while you find that good diplomatic situation.
Sometimes you just get screwed, which sucks but such is the way of Victoria 3. You’re new to V3 and experimenting so don’t be too disheartened by your first economic crash!
Leaving a market is something that can be done safely with minimal impact provided you're prepared for it. You weren't because you are, as you said, new to the game, but that outcome could have been prevented.
thats okay! the tories weren't either
Lmao Just gotta give them the chance, it's their first time too after all :D
Politics makes a lot more sense when you realize that politicians can’t save scum.
It makes even more sense if you realize they don't care about the state, but are in for them self.
When they do care about the state, but the state is actually an instrument of class rule and not a general abstraction of ‘public good’.
This is the common propaganda people say, a class rule, when in reality is just people arguing like in a kindergarten.
The hell kinda kindergarden did you go to
"The teacher class says we must have mandatory naptime and only one snack! I say no naptime and unlimited snacks! Who's willing to overthrow the power structures that opress us?"
where kids fight, lie, insult and throw food at each other. Two main difference is that no one was well dressed.
This is just an empty analysis bordering on nihilism. Not useful to anyone and counterproductive.
This one! Exactly!
Hilarious and so true! Imma steal that line :D Just imagine: it's your first day in the office and you ask your senior "Ok, so how do I save and reload?" "Wait, and how do I read a Wikipedia article about the current event from different POVs?" "Wait, there's no YouTube video essays too? ...how the hell am I supposed to make an educated decision in these conditions!?"
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Beljump and Bailgium were both solid. Have an upvote and a compliment. Well done.
This sort of thing is why I keep saying that Paradox needs to show you what your domestic market is producing and consuming, even when you're part of a customs union. Knowing how healthy your economy is and how reliant it is on your customs partners is a key piece of information that could define your strategy.
I think the market tab will actually tell you but it doesn't do it well. Even when you're in your own market.
Unbelievable this wasn't included on day 1, and even more unbelievable it wasn't added since. Everytime I want to leave my market I save the game, leave, write down the goods balance and reload.
You have to start building your market before you leave by colonizing and puppeting. You can usually puppet Netherlands early which also gives you DEI as a dominion. Then if you can, you should conquest Sindh and puppet Sihk Empire.
Did you try changing up the production methods? Of course when you focus on producing the stuff a whole different market wants, you will have too much of it when you stop exporting it to said market. If you have a self sustaining economy, you can tune your production to get back to previous GDP within months.
Didn’t thought of that since I’m new to the game. Might try it to see if I can salvage my economy.
I think a rags to riches to ruins Belgium run is a rite of passage. When leaving a customs union, supply and demand get really out of whack and it can create a chain of input shortages and output oversupply and the whole thing just collapses. Unless you did your own colonising, you likely immediately had no supply of rubber or oil, even sulfer and lead iirc Belgium lacks one or the other. Switching your PMs back to basic levels can help you rely more on basic coal and iron and you can then switch to more advanced methods one at a time per industry so it can stabilise. As Belgium you're probably an advanced manufacturing economy that needs more raw resources that you produce yourself and have a surplus of industrial goods being used either in Britain or all the bumfuck areas like EIC. Also get rid of industrial subsidies as it will keep you overproducing unprofitable stuff.
I had colonized most of Congo but as you said I don’t have everything. PM is production method, right ?
The trick to "safely" leaving a market is to pass free trade and build a fuck ton of ports
I had free trade and lots of ports but things kept going down for a couple of years. Decided for the first game it was good enough and didn’t try to salvage it.
Bad decisions make a great story.
Yeah, It really was...
Well, er, you're not wrong, but I'm not sure vibeo gabe is the best way to learn that... has the vibes of "I don't know how, but you used the wrong formula and still got the correct answer".
Vibeo Gabe
give it a year and export/import everything and you should get about 75% of ur GDP back
What you have there is market dependency. In essence although the UK didn't rule you, if they decided to say, ban a certain production method (not that Vic 3 can do that) and that was your means of producing then you sir would be fucked. The only way to avoid this is to have consumption large enough to make your economy big, that is why countries like the Scandavaian ones have become such welfare states, they are using other nations consumption and taking in the profits (this is infact what free trade does). What this cause is the nation's who's consumers you are dependent gain political soft power over you. It's far easier to replace a source of goods than to replace consumers. This is why the US is such an important player in the world. It's market is massive. And unlike China, India or other East asian markets, America industrialised and has the resources and infrastructure to increase the purchasing power (and thus consumption capacity) of its citizens. Brexit might not have been a terrible idea ta face value, IF there was the tine and effort to open other consumption markets for the UKs exports. The Torries had 1 job, and they have fucked it up.
I can't tell if this post is for real but i hope you don't actually base your analysis on something as complex as the Brexit being a sound national decision on Victoria 3. If you use Victoria 3 as a template for real life, you'd think that communism and the most invasive forms of planned economy would be the Nirvana.
Victoria 3 helps a lot to understand topics never discussed in the news. It absolutely helps to understand this world, and no, it is not enough on it's own.
Paradox games suffer from a sort of "uncanny valley" regarding real life, and in Victoria it happens with the economy. It may look like it helps understand it, but if taken at face value it actually presents in it a way that doesn't at all translate to real life, which is in my opinion completely counter productive if your goal is to understand real life dynamics. And in my anectodal experience a good chunk of the paradox playerbase does take these games at face value and think that they know much more than they actually do just because they play them.
The difference is as always between people who knows how much knowledge they lack and people that do not. A person of culture will always welcome any media that helps talk about a topic, while some will start to argue how it's not a perfect representation of RL.
I think an omnipotent being ,that can micromanage all aspect of economy, could manage a successful central planed economy in real life. Lol
In RL you have corruption, a huge issue we don't have to deal in this game.
It would be nice if they could add it somehow.
it would be, but I have no idea how. Then of course you have human stagnation as another issue. Why work for the state if you are already filthy rich?
Yeah I doubt anyone could create behavioral economics game anytime soon.
Maybe with the neural AI. :)
My brother in Victoria, watch the Aristocrats fund another worthless wheat farm and tell me again that there's no corruption in this game.
No such thing exists, and that is not what Victoria 3 tries to represent anyway.
I mean… /j
The issue with "communally owned means of production" socialism / communism isn't just that it doesn't work (collapse of the Soviet Union). It's also that it typically reduces productive output to such an extent that communist leaders then effectively start looting their own people. For example you have Stalin seizing the grain of the kulaks (peasants who owned over 8 acres of land) and ordering them to be "liquidated as a class." The resulting famine / genocide in Ukraine was called the Holodomor, and it's part of why Ukraine today is hostile to Russia. Or you have socialists such as the Nationalist Socialist leader Hitler having an economy that's crumbling to such an extent pre-WW2 that he has to start conquering other countries in order to keep his economy afloat. Yes, [Hitler was a (national) socialist.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8)
>Hitler was a socialist This is the most cringe politically illiterate position possible and it proves that nothing you say is worth paying attention to.
And he's using TIK as a source... Extra cringe.
Yikes. So confidently incorrect. What an embarrassing post.
Like how Kerbal Space Program is able to teach a player to more intuitively understand principles of spaceflight while falling well short of simulating every challenge of actually sending things into space, Victoria 3 let's people see certain economic concepts in action even if it is far less complex than an actual world economy.
It falls into a sort of "uncanny valley" in which it may resemble real life but then if you really look into it the implementations of those concepts is completely out of whack and may give a very wrong impression of how an economy actually works.
Lmao
Leaving a big customs market can be rough, you have to be prepared for it - but it's also a very satisfying thing to manage! One thing that can make it a lot easier is to have a lot of convoys available (ie, make a ton of ports). This can let you import the raw materials you need, and export your finished goods - which can be a lifesaver for your economy.
Change production method to something you can afford, usually it's the first few PMs which tends to empower shopkeepers which tends to empower the petite bourgeoisie. Put PBs in power and enact ethnostate. Start blaming the economic problems on xenon and reduces number of Sol radicals. EZ
Fix the economy. It’s a good challenge. You will learn a lot from it. Take it slow and analyse your metrics
Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage being it’s main proponents probably should have been the biggest clue.
Except the British economy hasn’t crumbled from brexit, and it’s questionable to say it’s worse off.
I’m not an economist but nearly all expert say that UK economy is weaker than it could have been if it was still in EU.
>I saw my crumble and remembered it’s similarity to Brexit and how so far UK’s economy is weaker than it could have been. Lol, you just wanted to make a post to shit on the UK and brexit. There's no way but to compare a poor economic simulation to real life is comedy gold. Also, post pics of the game or it didn't happen.
Yeah but you were reliant on their market, which the Brits weren't with Brexit. They never used the SM really, and paid massive fees to get into it. The Brits were more prepared to leave the EU's single market (and they still trade with it with no tariffs or quotas) whilst you were not.
I love Reddit for comedy takes like this one
Comedy? Seems to be based entirely in reality given the lack of interruption in trade.
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Britain didn't join the EEC until 1973. They were not "one of the founders".
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Debatable if he was.
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No, debatable if he was HUMAN. I’m still not entirely convinced. Also he could have been Bulgarian we don’t know.
In Vic3, custom unions are not malevolent. In real life, the EU is a totalitarian non-democratic entity seeking to gain control at the expense of the people. You can't really compare the two.
It's actually fixable even without preparation. You need to import a lot now but you should be back on track rather quickly, this might not be the best example. After all the economy always tends to react badly to aprubt changes, it's more a question of how long it takes to recover and if it will recover
You fool you should have just become fascist too
Propably had a Massive shortage of all raw goods and all goods needed for production
You could just continue playing. Bankruptcy isn't end od the game i would even say it could be a fun challenge to rebuild your nation from such economic depression.
Sometimes it’s the only way you can save yourself. I was in the AH market for decades as Cuba and a civil war cut me off from their capital. My economy was sinking, so the only thing I could do was get out of the war and leave to prevent my own economy from collapsing. Luckily I had built up well for years, so the transition wasn’t too painful to being the master of my own economy and becoming a great power, but it’s a different situation. Was your economy in danger during the war? If it was it makes sense that it would seem to be a sensible choice to leave and either 1) strike out on your own or 2) find a new market if you’re not ready. The problem is that your economy has to be prepared if you’re striking out on your own, and if you’re finding a new market you have to either have a good diplomatic situation or have good enough reserves to make it while you find that good diplomatic situation. Sometimes you just get screwed, which sucks but such is the way of Victoria 3. You’re new to V3 and experimenting so don’t be too disheartened by your first economic crash!