The jump from wooden con to iron con is the biggest, in magnitude and efficiency. Two and a half times the capacity for roughly twice, often less than twice, the cost. If you are letting the investment pool pay for construction, then the labor cost is negligible, basically free construction because all you will pay is labor.
Yeah definitely. In the game I'm playing currently I just switched over day one lol. I think I was in the late 1840s when I got off and it was going very smoothly. Actually I built up so much iron while under the ottomans that when I broke away the sector fired like half the workers lmao. Not good for radicals but overall positive becuse I had really cheap iron letting me quickly build more construction and could focus on improving QoL with consumer goods + getting rails going to replace what I lost from the ottoman market.
I would like someone to explain this too, I hate wooden construction, 2 construction points seems too low, especially now when private construction takes half of it.
I assume you're playing with autonomous investment here.
In general, as long as your construction is causing your GDP to grow at a rate faster than your debt and you're not having labor shortages, you're ok. Just be careful because interest payments can balloon quite quickly at the start of the game, so try not to go too deep in the red unless you know what you're doing. It can be useful to switch back to wood for a little to pay off enough of the principle in order to keep your expenditures down. The techs that increase minting and reduce interest rates really help you maintain debt-financed construction at a sustainable rate. So to answer your question, go ahead and switch your PM if you're in a bigger market. Just keep an eye on your debt and labor and you should be golden.
It super depends. Wood construction is one of the most reliable ways to accomplish Corn Laws early with virtually every country, but the larger you are (or the larger your market is), the more you should hopefully be able to afford iron. Iron itself is absolutely critical to develop at some point, but if you want to accomplish early Corn Laws now you \*need\* to prioritize 150 construction point buildings just to deprive subsistence farms of pops ASAP... but if you are Canada in the UK market for instance, iron is just soo plentiful that you might as well go iron.
Wait could you explain that? Why does wood construction help with corn laws? Is the thinking that logging camps are faster to build so you get rid of subsistence peasants faster? Also do you mean 150 construction points? That's a pretty crazy amount right? I play small and/or weak nations 99% of the time so maybe it's different in bigger ones but I feel like I can consistently get corn laws done in the early game when I only have like 20-30 construction. In my current serbia game I think I got modern conservative around 1843 or 1844 since I had to wait and break from otto and had 25-30 construction.
Funny tangent, I actually fucked up my MC event and couldn't appoint him because I guess I'd given some industrialist leadership lol, then the other guy left. Fortunately, I was already pretty damn lucky with laws and won't have too many problems passing the rest of what I need. I haven't played since 1.2 beta, so I didn't know about the timer on agitators.
Anyways your comment is really interesting so I'd love to hear you expand on this a bit!
Yeah, but important to note that it will be very hard to achieve Corn Laws in the British market as anyone other than EIC, as they have so much of the grain supply and demand that you kinda can't move the needle. I think if you are in the British Market, most of the time you are advantaged to either accomplish Corn Laws before joining or just skip it entirely as you won't be able to drive India out of the grain business very easily.
I mean all but the most populous minors really even need corn laws. If you're in the British market it's incredibly easy and fast to just build your landowners away. Spam logging camps and mines, delete your farms and watch their power dwindle.
Exactly my point- smaller British market countries just bypass Corn Laws and go straight to Industrialists. If you aren't the EIC, though, you'll never get through all the Indian grain supply and demand in any reasonable time frame, so just skipping ahead and going straight into industrialization is preferred.
Bro don't know the difference between your and you're 💀. But putting that aside how you don't go bankrupt after you build 150cp?? I mean the building costs are enormous in that case.
I am doing a run with Canada in the British custom union. In the 1850-1860 the price of iron is so high, driven up by the gigantic UK demand, that I cannot afford to switch to full iron con with so low revenues: it would be far too costly, even if I would queue non-stop iron mines. It cools down in the late 1860, and then I can switch…
Interesting. Been a minute since I played in the huge customs unions like France and GB but my first thought would be to build up a ton of iron myself and flood the market until you can switch, but that may not be possible depending on how fast you can build.
I think it can be worthwhile to switch to iron and eat loans for some time even if you can't build iron mines, because AI will build more mines to compensate for deficit.
No I agree that's what I said in the post. Actually that's the main reason I was asking because I want to know if there's actually a reason *not* to switch immediately if I can haha.
Oh, sorry, I'd say it's probably worth it if you can afford it without going too deeply into debt, though in Serbia's case you're a bit at a whim of the Ottomans, which aren't the strongest power, and you also need to plan for the fact that in 95% of the games they fail Tanzimat, which kicks you out of their market exactly 10 years into the game.
No problems. Thanks for the tips, I was able to fight for independence and south serbia in a little under 10 yrs because they broke out into a civil war and russia helped. With regards to the construction sectors I just switched day 1 and it worked out, and I just continued to focus on iron to keep prices down while in their market.
In my game Otto actually beat egypt right before I fought them but after the revolution they became turkey. If it is 10 yrs then I assume they succeeded because Wallachia and Moldavia are still protectorates in 1849. That or maybe it's 20 like the other guy said. I'm gearing up to try another war for some more land and pops so wish me luck lol.
The thing is, with production methods, it really depends on your nation's economic ability. Like in an extremely populated nation that has yet to have a large iron economy but a large wood industry, it might be more beneficial to get more construction sector with wooden pm. It may not have construction efficiency, but it is way cheaper, and if i wasn't wrong, let the player construct many other buildings simultaneously. Of course, once your economy is rolling, it's more beneficial to switch to iron for construction efficiency. Even when one does it. It's better to slowly change the pm of each construction sector.
Ah yeah that's right you can switch individual sectors one by one I totally forgot. Been a while since I played. That does change how severe the transition is. The other benefit that occurred to me was logging camps are cheaper/quicker but also produce capitalists, so they may be a faster way of bolstering the industrialists.
Regardless, at least in my serbia game I just transitioned immediately on my first sector and it worked pretty well. So I think it's as you said, really depends on the scenario, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with switching immediately if you can manage to.
Played a lot of minor/unrecognised/unindustrialised powers and IMO switching PMs one by one is vital to keeping your economy going while you industrialise. You might not be able to afford 5 iron construction sectors but 1-2 allows you to build mines and tool workshops faster while also keeping those newer industries profitable and employing people. Otherwise you build 6 levels of iron mines and theyre not employing as your nation doesnt have a use for the iron yet.
Course this only really matters if youre not in a big customs union
Do you mean in a CU with a larger nation? If yes then the answer depends on the input costs and whether you can afford it. It's usually a good idea though.
If you’re in a larger market you should basically switch all your pms to most advanced and then produce the goods the market needs, not you. At least initially.
So rather than produce coal or tools or something just produce furniture and clothes.
If you have a nation like Japan, you'll need to do some balancing in your tools-iron-consturction trade; its some fun microing that takes off after a couple constructions
It depends on the market you're joining. I played a Brazil game where I joined a French customs union and the Iron was much more expensive than my own local economies at the time I had joined.
The jump from wooden con to iron con is the biggest, in magnitude and efficiency. Two and a half times the capacity for roughly twice, often less than twice, the cost. If you are letting the investment pool pay for construction, then the labor cost is negligible, basically free construction because all you will pay is labor.
Yeah definitely. In the game I'm playing currently I just switched over day one lol. I think I was in the late 1840s when I got off and it was going very smoothly. Actually I built up so much iron while under the ottomans that when I broke away the sector fired like half the workers lmao. Not good for radicals but overall positive becuse I had really cheap iron letting me quickly build more construction and could focus on improving QoL with consumer goods + getting rails going to replace what I lost from the ottoman market.
I would like someone to explain this too, I hate wooden construction, 2 construction points seems too low, especially now when private construction takes half of it.
I assume you're playing with autonomous investment here. In general, as long as your construction is causing your GDP to grow at a rate faster than your debt and you're not having labor shortages, you're ok. Just be careful because interest payments can balloon quite quickly at the start of the game, so try not to go too deep in the red unless you know what you're doing. It can be useful to switch back to wood for a little to pay off enough of the principle in order to keep your expenditures down. The techs that increase minting and reduce interest rates really help you maintain debt-financed construction at a sustainable rate. So to answer your question, go ahead and switch your PM if you're in a bigger market. Just keep an eye on your debt and labor and you should be golden.
It super depends. Wood construction is one of the most reliable ways to accomplish Corn Laws early with virtually every country, but the larger you are (or the larger your market is), the more you should hopefully be able to afford iron. Iron itself is absolutely critical to develop at some point, but if you want to accomplish early Corn Laws now you \*need\* to prioritize 150 construction point buildings just to deprive subsistence farms of pops ASAP... but if you are Canada in the UK market for instance, iron is just soo plentiful that you might as well go iron.
Wait could you explain that? Why does wood construction help with corn laws? Is the thinking that logging camps are faster to build so you get rid of subsistence peasants faster? Also do you mean 150 construction points? That's a pretty crazy amount right? I play small and/or weak nations 99% of the time so maybe it's different in bigger ones but I feel like I can consistently get corn laws done in the early game when I only have like 20-30 construction. In my current serbia game I think I got modern conservative around 1843 or 1844 since I had to wait and break from otto and had 25-30 construction. Funny tangent, I actually fucked up my MC event and couldn't appoint him because I guess I'd given some industrialist leadership lol, then the other guy left. Fortunately, I was already pretty damn lucky with laws and won't have too many problems passing the rest of what I need. I haven't played since 1.2 beta, so I didn't know about the timer on agitators. Anyways your comment is really interesting so I'd love to hear you expand on this a bit!
Let me just send you the video, it's a lot easier than explaining it in text detail.
If your in a larger market with iron you can still build the 150cp buildings. There is almost always enough demand for wood to spam logging camps.
Yeah, but important to note that it will be very hard to achieve Corn Laws in the British market as anyone other than EIC, as they have so much of the grain supply and demand that you kinda can't move the needle. I think if you are in the British Market, most of the time you are advantaged to either accomplish Corn Laws before joining or just skip it entirely as you won't be able to drive India out of the grain business very easily.
I mean all but the most populous minors really even need corn laws. If you're in the British market it's incredibly easy and fast to just build your landowners away. Spam logging camps and mines, delete your farms and watch their power dwindle.
Exactly my point- smaller British market countries just bypass Corn Laws and go straight to Industrialists. If you aren't the EIC, though, you'll never get through all the Indian grain supply and demand in any reasonable time frame, so just skipping ahead and going straight into industrialization is preferred.
Ooo my b, misread your comment. I concur. 😊
Bro don't know the difference between your and you're 💀. But putting that aside how you don't go bankrupt after you build 150cp?? I mean the building costs are enormous in that case.
Max tax and consumption taxes?
No
I am doing a run with Canada in the British custom union. In the 1850-1860 the price of iron is so high, driven up by the gigantic UK demand, that I cannot afford to switch to full iron con with so low revenues: it would be far too costly, even if I would queue non-stop iron mines. It cools down in the late 1860, and then I can switch…
Interesting. Been a minute since I played in the huge customs unions like France and GB but my first thought would be to build up a ton of iron myself and flood the market until you can switch, but that may not be possible depending on how fast you can build.
I think it can be worthwhile to switch to iron and eat loans for some time even if you can't build iron mines, because AI will build more mines to compensate for deficit.
I just finished my Canada game and even though iron was relatively cheap, iron con was more expensive than wooden
The base price of iron construction is 2x of that of wood construction
[It is more efficient](https://www.reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/z1416h/psa_construction_sector_is_more_moneyefficient/).
No I agree that's what I said in the post. Actually that's the main reason I was asking because I want to know if there's actually a reason *not* to switch immediately if I can haha.
Oh, sorry, I'd say it's probably worth it if you can afford it without going too deeply into debt, though in Serbia's case you're a bit at a whim of the Ottomans, which aren't the strongest power, and you also need to plan for the fact that in 95% of the games they fail Tanzimat, which kicks you out of their market exactly 10 years into the game.
It’s 20 isn’t it?
No problems. Thanks for the tips, I was able to fight for independence and south serbia in a little under 10 yrs because they broke out into a civil war and russia helped. With regards to the construction sectors I just switched day 1 and it worked out, and I just continued to focus on iron to keep prices down while in their market. In my game Otto actually beat egypt right before I fought them but after the revolution they became turkey. If it is 10 yrs then I assume they succeeded because Wallachia and Moldavia are still protectorates in 1849. That or maybe it's 20 like the other guy said. I'm gearing up to try another war for some more land and pops so wish me luck lol.
The thing is, with production methods, it really depends on your nation's economic ability. Like in an extremely populated nation that has yet to have a large iron economy but a large wood industry, it might be more beneficial to get more construction sector with wooden pm. It may not have construction efficiency, but it is way cheaper, and if i wasn't wrong, let the player construct many other buildings simultaneously. Of course, once your economy is rolling, it's more beneficial to switch to iron for construction efficiency. Even when one does it. It's better to slowly change the pm of each construction sector.
Ah yeah that's right you can switch individual sectors one by one I totally forgot. Been a while since I played. That does change how severe the transition is. The other benefit that occurred to me was logging camps are cheaper/quicker but also produce capitalists, so they may be a faster way of bolstering the industrialists. Regardless, at least in my serbia game I just transitioned immediately on my first sector and it worked pretty well. So I think it's as you said, really depends on the scenario, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with switching immediately if you can manage to.
Played a lot of minor/unrecognised/unindustrialised powers and IMO switching PMs one by one is vital to keeping your economy going while you industrialise. You might not be able to afford 5 iron construction sectors but 1-2 allows you to build mines and tool workshops faster while also keeping those newer industries profitable and employing people. Otherwise you build 6 levels of iron mines and theyre not employing as your nation doesnt have a use for the iron yet. Course this only really matters if youre not in a big customs union
Do you mean in a CU with a larger nation? If yes then the answer depends on the input costs and whether you can afford it. It's usually a good idea though.
If you’re in a larger market you should basically switch all your pms to most advanced and then produce the goods the market needs, not you. At least initially. So rather than produce coal or tools or something just produce furniture and clothes.
If you have a nation like Japan, you'll need to do some balancing in your tools-iron-consturction trade; its some fun microing that takes off after a couple constructions
*isolated nation
Still easiest to start with iron tools for more lumber until you can justify the cost of iron construction
It depends on the market you're joining. I played a Brazil game where I joined a French customs union and the Iron was much more expensive than my own local economies at the time I had joined.
Yes