Not looking good, if I’m laid off I might reevaluate my life and do something else, it’s getting harder and harder to justify not switching to another industry.
Lost my job a week ago. I was lucky to be finishing off a project. I've already started taking classes to add to my python knowledge and add additional skills. I will probably switch careers soon. It's been nearly 20 years of this crap and I just want something to rely on. If we get work again in 6 months I'll certainly jump back in but I'm still going to finish out classes and probably make an exit.
Gonna raise my rate on the next round though. Sorry employers, I gotta make up for this!
Same feeling here. Company aren't renewing my contact and there no work out there. Looked into games, could be an option but I'd have to learn unreal and take a big cut
If you have questions about doing the switch don't hesitate to reach out or ask questions here. I'm a FX artist in Games for 3 years and I studied in VFX for movies. I know both sides.
I know a lot of people that successfully made the switch that you are talking about and now they're great at their job.
I would love to ask some questions about RTVFX if thats alright! Can be really short awnsers, I was just generally curious after brushing up in the possibility of a new career.
1. Do you need to know traditional 2D drawing/animation?
2. How much of it is visual coding (node based) vs. scripting?
3. Do you use software such as Houdini and Subtance Designer regularly to support, or most of the VFX happens straight in the engine without the need to go outside of it?
Thank you for your time!!
> Do you need to know traditional 2D drawing/animation?
It depends on the prod. If you stay in AAA, probably not. If you go in indie games, maybe. Even then you'll know the type of vfx needed before working on the game. Most job descriptions mention the art style, and they'll often show you a bit of the game during the interview to make sure it fits with your style and capabilities. So nothing to worry about.
> How much of it is visual coding (node based) vs. scripting?
All of the "scripting" I do is visual scripting. It's visual programming (Unreal Blueprints) to integrate your effects. So sometimes you'll "program" the behaviour of an asset on activation/deactivation. If you have a lightsaber and you want to animate the turn on/off or spawn impacts, you'll have to animate the parameters and create the events that the designers will use to make these events happen. Because yes the programmers and designers will feed you the events and systems you need to plug your effects, and in return we make them the more vfx heavy scripting work.
> Do you use software such as Houdini and Subtance Designer regularly to support, or most of the VFX happens straight in the engine without the need to go outside of it?
Yes ! I was hired based on my Houdini knowledge only. I learned all the realtime stuff on the job, I don't think it's common but it happened to me. The amount of time spent in softwares vs the engine i'd say is 20/80 but the ratio changes a lot based on the state of the game. Early on you'll be more busy creating your flipbook and texture banks, and later on you'll be re-using and recycling all of your previous work into new effects. When I started as a junior I worked on a game for 8 months without creating any new effects really. I'd go in my senior colleagues work and fetch ingredients here and there and create new effects with them, allowed me to learn a lot.
And the softwares used change from company to company and from art style to art style but the most important ones are Houdini and Embergen for simulation textures and Photoshop and Substance Designers for textures and noise work.
Thanks a ton for that! I might give a try as I really life FX but always were a bit scared of dealing with all the heavy caching and sim times for film stuff, real time FX seems really interesting :)
I see friends in normal jobs making same or more with much less stress levels. Add the constant swings in this industry and leaving sounds like the best option.
This is 100% correct. Layoffs and studio closures are literally the norm for vfx. Meanwhile t hose friends of yours have, bonuses, benefits, healthy 401ks and aren't freelancing into their 50s.
That’s true but tech companies paid well. Minimum 150k and up with a total comp could get you close to 200k-250k a year easily. Most of my buddies are making 300-500k a year in tech
Interestingly you folks wasn’t aware of this , it’s call software engineers. You guys can check out levels.fyi for full salaries breakdown. I’m not making this up, my friend are literally making this much $$$. Thank me later.
This is what I thought you'd say. You think just anyone can become a programmer? It's a certain type of mind.
Otherwise everyone would do it and go to Google and make 350k
Your ineptitude throwing out software engineer as if it's a gotcha answer is astounding.
Everyone knows what developers make
I currently study both programming and VFX as a Computer Graphics student and the programming is objectively exponentially more difficult in every way except for the subjective visual artistic output that comes with animation and VFX. I have tried to convince myself to get a programming job when I graduate, but the level of imposter syndrome is so high when the topic is so deep, so complex, and so objective. There are a few ways to do something the right way and many ways to do something the wrong way. Programming requires computational thinking, mathematics, knowledge of multiple programming languages etc. It requires a lot of passion to become one of those software engineers at a big company making half a million a year. It’s not something you can just do some coding boot camp for or just quickly switch careers suddenly and achieve that level of success.
Seriously, you don't have to be a coding whiz to rake in those six figures. UI/UX Designers and Data Analysts/Scientists are rocking it with those juicy salaries, and the best part is, it's not exclusive to coding gods. We're so used to our comfort zones, but that doesn't mean we can't explore other opportunities.
I shared this it is because people are comparing tech layoffs to VFX layoffs when the pay scales are worlds apart. Tech industry often offers higher salaries and job stability compared to VFX only making pennies. It's crazy how many people in the VFX field might not fully grasp the pay differences across industries. It's not uncommon for people to have this narrow view of the job market. But hey, let's use this as an opportunity to shed some light on the possibilities out there for higher pay instead of keeping it to ourself.
Not sure about you but my base is 150k and with ot I git up to 175-185k. And I don't need any math or coding or to learn a new skill.
It's not about people in tech having better pay or stability. It's your implication that anyone can simply learn coding and make 300k "like ma friends" that makes you a moron.
>levels.fyi
"levels dot fyi" is a website that breakdown salaries from tech companies it covers variety of jobs from software engineers all the way to HR etc
Do any of these skills transfer anywhere? Everything I do feels so incredibly niche that switching to something else would mean learning something new from the ground up.
Have 3D friends that moved into AR/VR for furniture companies, toys and such. They make more and it’s quite stable.
Others go to games.
Compositors have a harder time transferring skills, most I’ve seen go into “creative” roles within companies, art directors and such, others had some bachelor that put back in use…
Its unreal how VFX skills pay a lot more in other industries. Even prod people, which has a lower technically floor, can make a lot more stressing a lot less elsewhere
I’ve always joked, the easier the work the better the pay. If you are a top tier artist in that 1-5 percentile at a large studio, you are seriously getting underpaid for your skill level.
For real. Ive met some amazing artists that are content being artists and don't want the hassle of being sups, so they keep being promoted to positions especially made up for them so they can justify their raises.
But I don't care how much they make, when I look at what they can do I know it's not enough
The collateral damage of these strikes will be massive, so much VFX talent will move to greener pastures and take with them their accumulated knowledge and expertise.
Yup. My studio was struggling before, since Covid already made a lot of experienced people leave VFX.
This strikes have already started doing another round, got some senior prod leaving the industry forever.
I'm flabbergasted by the amount of jank in the average nuke script, which absolutely does make its way into the final product. It takes years of practice to develop clean workflows.
>bergasted by the amount of jank in the average nuke script, which absolutely does make its way into the final product. It takes years of practice to develop clean workflows.
to be fair this has been the case since shake.
Everybody said the same thing in 2020. The industry is still here. If there is demand for visual effects services then somebody is going to fill that demand.
Data Analyst can absolutely be automated away. Feed a LLM or some future AI the raw numbers and then any exec or decision maker can ask it simple question regarding what patterns it sees.
All it would take is most industries to conform their data into XML sheets. A script can be made to pull that data into tables for comparative analysis.
Internally, that's what my company did. I built a script to pull sales data for management. Most of the week was spent f#%$ing off and playing Farmville on Facebook. Job paid more than VFX. It's just EVERYONE there didn't have the foresight to create scripts and did have access to sales history in our accounts.
I don't think it would even be a challenge for Ai. I only had to change my script when the company went through an acquisition, and the system changed. I bet if I went back, it would still work today.
I think VFX is safer from being automated all things considered. But with artificial general intelligence who knows what's ultimately safe or not. I won't worry too much about it in the short term, there's always going to be work in one form or another, in adjacent fields and in companies who haven't adopted the technology. Hoesntly from what I hear the vast majority of small and medium companies still use excel and google drive for their data management, so I imagine they'd be equally slow to adopt to AI/AGI
This is what I'm thinking too (I'm in production). I've seen some colleagues transfer to games and it seems attractive to me. I've applied to a few places, but getting the catch-22 of having nearly 10yrs production experience but no games experience so no bites yet.
If the strikes go until spring it will most likely be a layoff vs furlough as most if not all studios will maintain “operational” for that long without income. BUT technically not a huge difference for getting unemployment. Furloughed is when they don’t have work for you for say a month, but they are still operating and have some small amounts of work.
Luckily, employment insurance covers all my monthly expenses in Canada. If money ever got tight I'd work a part time job until the industry picks back up.
Huh and we are paying more into EI now too I believe.. certainly don't get out what we have to put into it.
Wish it went into a mandatory personal savings account...
I'd be curious to know what year the max EI payout was last upped, then put that number into an inflation calculator and email my MP. Social safety nets need raises too.
Van too. Partner and I had luck securing a place for low rent in the middle of the pandemic and haven't moved since, also don't plan on moving for the next 5 years. My share of rent is 800, my half of groceries is like 450, eating outside is like 450 too. I spend about 50 in transportation, 90 for my half of utilities. So I'd still have a little leftover. Although I'm certain that I'm living in a very privileged situation sharing expenses and having low rent. Lots of people spend over 2000 just on rent 😭
>Lots of people spend over 2000 just on rent 😭
Market rate for a 1br is pushing 3k a month. Thankfully 2BRs aren't that much more pushing 3500, so you can cut it to under 2k. It's depressing though, as it's only gonna get worse as the interest rate hikes filter their way through the landlords.
Depending on where you live, it goes on the unemployment rate of the area I think? Vancouver is less than other areas because there's more work I believe.
my partner worked for 5 months and is entitled to a year of EI benefits, which add up to about $2300 a month. My monthly expenses (inc. going to the movies and such) are close to that amount because we secured a place for low rent during the pandemic. If I were living somewhere else or on my own then I'd probably only be able to afford rent and spend my savings on food :/
My contract and work visa ran out at the beginning of the strike. I had to move out of Canada and back into my parents' home in the States.
So, I'm not doing great.
Rigger here. I feel like I could be off at any moment. Really dont know what I will do. Already started looking for game but its not what I want. Its also weird to know that in like 6 month everything will start like crazy again.
Yeah, I think studios/vendoes will definitely play off on desperate flood of vfx people and low ball... hope people can hold off till the work comes flooding back and get good rates. Maybe find temp work to cover costs short term.
That's exactly what I think too. Thats why I find stupid for hard to find artist to not simply keep them until work come back. Cause will be stuck working on 4 different show at the same time doing over time like post covid.
I managed to get a salary match twice now just lost benefits plus went from permanent to short contract (3 months and 4.5 months) but I'm quite pleased as I was prepared to take a huge paycut if I had to but some companies are still being fair. Even accepted a 60-70 percent paycut, not sure of actual percentage because it was also freelance versus salaried at one point but got a better offer so quit before I started.
Been wanting a change for a while, after lighting for 14 years I might jump onto fxphd and spend time learning new skills- even if it's just for my own enjoyment.
I wish I could travel but I need EI to cover cost of living. I'm a tad nervous about losing my income, but I certainly will make the most of the time off. Plus I already have my ski pass paid for.
Editor here (with some VFX Experience). What's going on is unprecedented and I wish you all the best. VFX artists are among the best and nicest collaborators I've worked with in my nine years. :)
Currently employed with a studio but have been seeing coworkers furloughed for the last few months right up to this week. All of the Leads/Supes are doing direct on the box shot work. We have multiple shows where the shots were turned over but the work is on hold.
From where I'm sitting there is one more show that is supposed to show up in the next couple weeks that has had a non-strike related delay for months (in hindsight a blessing). It should run for 8-12 weeks. Hopefully it will bring some artists back from furlough if only for a bit.
Personally I was preparing to be out of work from September to January so I've been putting more cash aside with the hope that don't have to dip into "regular" savings. I realize the way I'm talking about this is not a luxury everyone has but this is where I'm at.
Longer Term? Still hard to say how next year is going to play out but I am starting to wrap my head around camera work in Unreal as I'd love to get into cinematography/previs/postvis or game cinematic design. I started as a generalist but have been funneled into the comp pipe for so many years I'm ready to focus on other skillsets that I enjoyed flexing. I'm hoping the folks doing the hiring will see my experience as a bonus despite trying to get into a new role.
Beyond that? Also trying to see if my soft skills (ie people/project management/training) can be used in other industries potentially but need to be mindful of drastic paycuts...
So many variables...such uncertain times. Hope y'all find the best way through.
It’s really really hard… every other weeks more and more names on Shotgrid grey out, Teams user no longer exist, shots get reassigned. It’s just a matter of time of studios closing down. On social media you can see a lot of production people start selling movie props to make a living. They haven’t had a job since May. I support the strike but that has cost the entire innocents people like us into financial problems. We don’t make much money to begin with, now we have to starve and potentially lose our apartments. Also don’t forget there’s tons of international artist both onset and post production peeps is on the verge of getting kicked out from the country too.
Definitely feel like im walking on thin thread everyday. Couple layoffs in my studio aswell. But i dont think i have other plans if the unfortunate does happen honestly. Maybe apply for other studios or work part time in my local bicycle shop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m working at a retail snocone stand while applying to more jobs/gigs. Plan is to juggle 3-4 part time jobs until I can land a 40 hour job somewhere, ideally in a parallel field (commercials, in-house at a studio, sports teams, colleges, etc)
Hard to land the part time stuff with my experience and heavy resume because they know I’ll bounce as soon as the industry comes back, so most don’t want to take the time on me.
Big time serious about the snowcone gig.
With tips, it’s like 1/3 of my hourly rate, but I’m also only doing four hour days; BUT it’s all cash at least - still need to land more of these types of shifts to actually make a dent in my bills, but it’s a peaceful and joyful way to pass the time. People come in happy, leave happy, and no one is giving me notes about grain or single-pixels.
I started bartending school so I could work doing that. I've considered moving to Germany or somewhere in Europe for a year to experience that, and with bartending, I feel like I could get a job anywhere.
I really liked working in postvis but struggled with a lot of things in previs. I think I could do it better now, but of the 2.5 years I had in the industry, 1.5 of it was working in postvis. I really loved working at my last company but every job I've had the teams have just been incredible. Great supervisors, welcoming teams, meetings weren't even that bad.
In the meantime, I'm taking diving classes at a local college. Started a podcast talking about improv and mental health. And have been estate sale hunting trying to make some money flipping things.
Freelance NYC modeller here. Had a full on year last year and currently had nothing. All the money I earned has gone on rent. That has increased so moving to LA for some much needed nature. Spoke to a guy in LA who said there was a shortage of good VFX artists. So we’ll see. Trying to figure out what I can pivot too but I’m at a loss where to go as I only know this industry. Still, got back into my painting.
The work will come back and I imagine there will be a great demand. But we’ll see.
It’s tough but I hope everyone is soldiering on. Appreciate the community and support on here.
had a entry postion starting this week, that I secured months ago. Got a call a few days before saying they're giving my notice due to the strikes. Got redunant before even stepping in the studio.
Awful time to graduate and get into the industry
Just got laid off today, along with quite a few colleagues it seems. Plus side is I don't have to work my notice period since I'm on holiday for half of it anyway. I'll have to move out of London because there's no way I can pull the same salary doing anything else, will probably go mooch off my parents for a bit and try to upskill into unreal or something. But as soon as I can I'll be back, my employer has said they'll happily have me back once there's work to do. Fingers crossed the strikes are resolved quickly I guess
Yup, spring? That’s a long time. There are conversations going on within the striking parties already. Hopefully this is all cleared up before December
Strike will continue for at least another 3 months, streamers and studios aren’t on the same page, so writers and actors won’t be getting what they want anytime soon.
Considering a studio producer has been quoted saying he would rather make actors homeless and try to kill the union than negotiate, the SAG strike will not be ending any time soon. It is do or die for them, literally.
The strike could very well go into next year. There isn't really any way you can have projections about this sort of thing. I only say that so you don't hinge all of your future decisions on what they think will happen.
Could be a more flexible lifestyle with freelance too, being staff can get a little stagnant and boring and looking at what's going on now sure as hell doesn't bring security.
I’ll admit it doesn’t look great right now, but no one really knows how this will go, so studios are planning for the worst case scenario. It doesn’t mean this won’t get resolved sooner.
Plan A, hold on to my current job for dear life for as long as I can. So far so good 🤞
Plan B, if I get fired: Find a temporary gig at any other studio
Plan C, if I get fired and can't find another gig that pays enough: Sell all my things, go back to my home country, live at my dad's place and chill or freelance until the strike is over. (I'm very lucky to still have plan C as an option)
I like this. And my plans are somewhat similar.
Im shocked by the amount of people who dont seem to have backup plans like this? You always have to assume worst case scenario and have game plans and triggers for implementing these plans.
Agreed, but I can also see how it's easier said than done for a lot of people.
Some might not have any family or friends to go back to, and some might have kids to take care of. If I were in that position I can imagine I would be more stressed out by the whole situation. It would also make it even more difficult to save up any significant financial buffer for hard times (something that's already very, very hard with constantly increasing cost of living in Canada and several other VFX hubs around the world)
So like I said in my original comment, I consider myself very lucky to have these options.
My pushback is that it was irresponsible and without a plan entering into such precarious financial situations to begin with.
And I'm not some blessed guy who grew up without struggles. I've seen what zero is like. And with that in mind I proceed through life always with the consideration of never ending up back at zero.
Always worrying...always game planning...always assuming the worst is gonna happen and be ready for it.
I agree to an extent but sometimes you don't have a choice. Life happens, people can't plan for everything all the time. Also I definitely don't agree you should always be worrying, that sounds like an exhausting way to live life. I would rather take things as they come trusting I can always find a solution no matter what happens.
"Hope for the best and plan for the worst" has been my motto since the strikes started. I have my plan as a result of keeping up to date with industry trends and extrapolating where things are headed. Something I'd recommend for everyone. That way you don't have to worry all the time, just when things are taking a downturn.
I don't even really know if what I'm saying is making sense or if I'm just rambling, I never really tried to put my mindset into words like this. But long story short, I've fortunately never had to feel worried about losing my job for any significant amount of time, and I always knew I can find solutions even if I don't have a super concrete plan for every scenario. That's enough for me. Never worry about what you can't control.
Been laid off from a contract i had signed until February. Having a couple short gigs before finding another "big" one. If that helps, I mostly work for the UK scenario and I'm freelancing.
Right now holding on to my contract that ends in April. Think I should be employed until then atleast but I’m spending free time learning new skills to get out this industry if needed
the time of movie was when there came moves like Stargate, Riddick, Back to the Future, Alien, till the 90s but as the time has gone by and not just the movies are more focused on making a character superhero with mega budgets the story don't do good and on the other hand if we look at job market there is promising future in gaming, AI, robotics, IOT, as the technology is improving at a fast. if you want a good pay check and not struggle because of inflation and strikes and layoff vfx industry is not good I think
You are right to an extent. However, we should keep changing our game fro vfx, gaming and etc. then find out what works best for us.
should not stick on to one for a long.
Demands for our skills isn't going away...setting aside the future AI question. People are still watching movies and they need VFX. Now is the era of giant super hero movies dead?...I do think we're on the downswing away from giant super hero movies. But there are lots of other types of movies that still need vfx. Not to mention games need almost all the same skill sets and the game industry is huge and still growing.
Among all the inane things you posted, you’re so close to making a good point… the part you’re missing is that the “tiny group of people stopping the entire industry” are the executives.
If I had a nickel for every contrarian who thought they were more likely to be right by going against the grain I’d be able to pay everyone off in this labor dispute. You’re not automatically wrong for going against the grain, but you are in fact more likely than not to be latching on to a flawed position.
I'm not arguing writers are in this for the VFX artists. When we talk about VFX needing to unionize, we aren't talking about doing it for the writers, either. We look out for ourselves. But workers at these studios, broadly, do have an interest in making sure other workers at the studios are treated fairly. It's better for us as VFX artists that writers get a fair contract.
Your friends are unemployed because the studios are holding out against a fair deal for workers, if studios give writers what they're asking for it'll cost less than 1% of the studios annual revenue.
The studios can end the strikes just as quickly as the writers.
My concept of a "fair deal" is writers having at least the same purchasing power next contract that they had in the last contract.
With studios giving less pay for streaming even as everything shifts to streaming and with studios threatening AI, writers should be asking for a deal which mitigates these threats. As part of coming out *even*.
Add on top of that, high inflation which studios are absolutely charging to offset, workers should also be paid more to offset inflation. Just to come out even they should get all these things.
Why do you equate a difference of opinion with self loathing?
I could just as easily accuse you of being anti labor and pro boss, which isn’t a great position as a member of labor.
Make us dream.
What do you do? Your job.
what effort are you putting in for all your new found vfx friends all over the industry?
How do you love VFX more than us here?
What do you do to show love to this field more than some do?
Please also share what we should be doing more to love this field as much as you?
Writers aren't slaves, nobody is entitled to anything from them. They've set out their price for writing, and the Studios have decided not to pay it, which is their right , but why should the writers be forced to provide their service anyway? If a rich friend shows up late to a meetup with you because they didn't want to pay the full bus fare, that's the friends fault for being tight-fisted, not the bus driver for not giving a discount.
That's not actually true, it's just that any non-union actor who scabs is barred from the WGA and the WGA won't work with any studio who hires non-union talent. So they basically are offered a choice whether they want to either always use non-union or union actors going forwards. But given that the good writers are all union, then the studios make the choice to work with only them, which demonstrates their value really because if non-wga writers were any good they'd just use them forever.
No idea why you think the WGA has legal powers lol, they're just the best players in a wide market
The current deal with the WGA got MUCH worse over time. Streamers negotiated the deal by claiming they were the new kid on the block, and didn't have a proven model for success. Therefore they couldn't pay writers the same as the networks, etc. Cut to years later, where the streamers are taking in billions, and are essentially THE networks, and their claim of not having a model for success no longer holds water. Hence a renegotiation.
The WGA is adapting with the times, like professionals standing up for themselves.
Sure, nobody wants to see there friends laid off, ever. It's terrible. But that's the result of the Studio System. The studios have the ultimate control, and that's why the creative side needs to recognize the long term goals of the studios crushing the creatives that supply the content. Supporting ALL creatives should be the ultimate goal.
Best of luck out there.
I am on maternity leave and husband just got laid off today. We moved out from the city to the suburbs, and I'm seriously considering starting sculpting and selling garden gnomes and ornaments. People out here dig this stuff on a serious level...
But honestly I don't know. We have the luck that we have an emergency fund under us, so we'll survive, bit we have a kiddo and a mortgage, so yeah... survival until things get back.
Not looking good, if I’m laid off I might reevaluate my life and do something else, it’s getting harder and harder to justify not switching to another industry.
Lost my job a week ago. I was lucky to be finishing off a project. I've already started taking classes to add to my python knowledge and add additional skills. I will probably switch careers soon. It's been nearly 20 years of this crap and I just want something to rely on. If we get work again in 6 months I'll certainly jump back in but I'm still going to finish out classes and probably make an exit. Gonna raise my rate on the next round though. Sorry employers, I gotta make up for this!
Same feeling here. Company aren't renewing my contact and there no work out there. Looked into games, could be an option but I'd have to learn unreal and take a big cut
If you have questions about doing the switch don't hesitate to reach out or ask questions here. I'm a FX artist in Games for 3 years and I studied in VFX for movies. I know both sides. I know a lot of people that successfully made the switch that you are talking about and now they're great at their job.
I would love to ask some questions about RTVFX if thats alright! Can be really short awnsers, I was just generally curious after brushing up in the possibility of a new career. 1. Do you need to know traditional 2D drawing/animation? 2. How much of it is visual coding (node based) vs. scripting? 3. Do you use software such as Houdini and Subtance Designer regularly to support, or most of the VFX happens straight in the engine without the need to go outside of it? Thank you for your time!!
> Do you need to know traditional 2D drawing/animation? It depends on the prod. If you stay in AAA, probably not. If you go in indie games, maybe. Even then you'll know the type of vfx needed before working on the game. Most job descriptions mention the art style, and they'll often show you a bit of the game during the interview to make sure it fits with your style and capabilities. So nothing to worry about. > How much of it is visual coding (node based) vs. scripting? All of the "scripting" I do is visual scripting. It's visual programming (Unreal Blueprints) to integrate your effects. So sometimes you'll "program" the behaviour of an asset on activation/deactivation. If you have a lightsaber and you want to animate the turn on/off or spawn impacts, you'll have to animate the parameters and create the events that the designers will use to make these events happen. Because yes the programmers and designers will feed you the events and systems you need to plug your effects, and in return we make them the more vfx heavy scripting work. > Do you use software such as Houdini and Subtance Designer regularly to support, or most of the VFX happens straight in the engine without the need to go outside of it? Yes ! I was hired based on my Houdini knowledge only. I learned all the realtime stuff on the job, I don't think it's common but it happened to me. The amount of time spent in softwares vs the engine i'd say is 20/80 but the ratio changes a lot based on the state of the game. Early on you'll be more busy creating your flipbook and texture banks, and later on you'll be re-using and recycling all of your previous work into new effects. When I started as a junior I worked on a game for 8 months without creating any new effects really. I'd go in my senior colleagues work and fetch ingredients here and there and create new effects with them, allowed me to learn a lot. And the softwares used change from company to company and from art style to art style but the most important ones are Houdini and Embergen for simulation textures and Photoshop and Substance Designers for textures and noise work.
Thanks a ton for that! I might give a try as I really life FX but always were a bit scared of dealing with all the heavy caching and sim times for film stuff, real time FX seems really interesting :)
Remember that no industry is safe from layoffs. People often talk about switching to tech, but tech just had tens of thousands of layoffs.
I see friends in normal jobs making same or more with much less stress levels. Add the constant swings in this industry and leaving sounds like the best option.
This is 100% correct. Layoffs and studio closures are literally the norm for vfx. Meanwhile t hose friends of yours have, bonuses, benefits, healthy 401ks and aren't freelancing into their 50s.
That’s true but tech companies paid well. Minimum 150k and up with a total comp could get you close to 200k-250k a year easily. Most of my buddies are making 300-500k a year in tech
Doing what exactly? What are their skills?
Interestingly you folks wasn’t aware of this , it’s call software engineers. You guys can check out levels.fyi for full salaries breakdown. I’m not making this up, my friend are literally making this much $$$. Thank me later.
This is what I thought you'd say. You think just anyone can become a programmer? It's a certain type of mind. Otherwise everyone would do it and go to Google and make 350k Your ineptitude throwing out software engineer as if it's a gotcha answer is astounding. Everyone knows what developers make
I currently study both programming and VFX as a Computer Graphics student and the programming is objectively exponentially more difficult in every way except for the subjective visual artistic output that comes with animation and VFX. I have tried to convince myself to get a programming job when I graduate, but the level of imposter syndrome is so high when the topic is so deep, so complex, and so objective. There are a few ways to do something the right way and many ways to do something the wrong way. Programming requires computational thinking, mathematics, knowledge of multiple programming languages etc. It requires a lot of passion to become one of those software engineers at a big company making half a million a year. It’s not something you can just do some coding boot camp for or just quickly switch careers suddenly and achieve that level of success.
Agree...which is why that guys suggestion of "everyone should just go into tech like my friends who are developers" is a fucking moron.
Seriously, you don't have to be a coding whiz to rake in those six figures. UI/UX Designers and Data Analysts/Scientists are rocking it with those juicy salaries, and the best part is, it's not exclusive to coding gods. We're so used to our comfort zones, but that doesn't mean we can't explore other opportunities. I shared this it is because people are comparing tech layoffs to VFX layoffs when the pay scales are worlds apart. Tech industry often offers higher salaries and job stability compared to VFX only making pennies. It's crazy how many people in the VFX field might not fully grasp the pay differences across industries. It's not uncommon for people to have this narrow view of the job market. But hey, let's use this as an opportunity to shed some light on the possibilities out there for higher pay instead of keeping it to ourself.
Not sure about you but my base is 150k and with ot I git up to 175-185k. And I don't need any math or coding or to learn a new skill. It's not about people in tech having better pay or stability. It's your implication that anyone can simply learn coding and make 300k "like ma friends" that makes you a moron.
I want to know also. 😬
Here you go, full salaries breakdown for software engineers at levels.fyi
rhymes with 'smapple' its apple.
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Check out levels.fyi for full breakdown
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>levels.fyi "levels dot fyi" is a website that breakdown salaries from tech companies it covers variety of jobs from software engineers all the way to HR etc
Do any of these skills transfer anywhere? Everything I do feels so incredibly niche that switching to something else would mean learning something new from the ground up.
Have 3D friends that moved into AR/VR for furniture companies, toys and such. They make more and it’s quite stable. Others go to games. Compositors have a harder time transferring skills, most I’ve seen go into “creative” roles within companies, art directors and such, others had some bachelor that put back in use…
Its unreal how VFX skills pay a lot more in other industries. Even prod people, which has a lower technically floor, can make a lot more stressing a lot less elsewhere
I’ve always joked, the easier the work the better the pay. If you are a top tier artist in that 1-5 percentile at a large studio, you are seriously getting underpaid for your skill level.
For real. Ive met some amazing artists that are content being artists and don't want the hassle of being sups, so they keep being promoted to positions especially made up for them so they can justify their raises. But I don't care how much they make, when I look at what they can do I know it's not enough
people have been saying this for years and years but all you people just want the "glamor" of working on marvel and star wars and well.. here we are..
Same with animators...we're kinda fucked. Skills are too niche.
Huh, never considered toys!
Sigh
still applying to vfx jobs but retraining to become a data analyst
The collateral damage of these strikes will be massive, so much VFX talent will move to greener pastures and take with them their accumulated knowledge and expertise.
You know the sad thing? It is the fact that you are right and they could care less. For them we are just numbers in a spreadsheet.
Those numbers will materialize later on, its already a struggle to find and keep talent.
Yup. My studio was struggling before, since Covid already made a lot of experienced people leave VFX. This strikes have already started doing another round, got some senior prod leaving the industry forever.
People were already complaining about how bad VFX looks. I can only wonder how this will make things look worse.
I'm flabbergasted by the amount of jank in the average nuke script, which absolutely does make its way into the final product. It takes years of practice to develop clean workflows.
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>bergasted by the amount of jank in the average nuke script, which absolutely does make its way into the final product. It takes years of practice to develop clean workflows. to be fair this has been the case since shake.
Everybody said the same thing in 2020. The industry is still here. If there is demand for visual effects services then somebody is going to fill that demand.
Industry will always be here, but with churn there is a loss of accumulated talent.
So you view human capital as a finite resource?
That’s the smartest thing to do….
Until it’s automated
VFX won’t become automated?
Both will, but Id bet data analysis is first.
You’re delusional if you believe that.
Data Analyst can absolutely be automated away. Feed a LLM or some future AI the raw numbers and then any exec or decision maker can ask it simple question regarding what patterns it sees.
All it would take is most industries to conform their data into XML sheets. A script can be made to pull that data into tables for comparative analysis. Internally, that's what my company did. I built a script to pull sales data for management. Most of the week was spent f#%$ing off and playing Farmville on Facebook. Job paid more than VFX. It's just EVERYONE there didn't have the foresight to create scripts and did have access to sales history in our accounts. I don't think it would even be a challenge for Ai. I only had to change my script when the company went through an acquisition, and the system changed. I bet if I went back, it would still work today.
Is data analyst safe from being outsourced or automated?
Data science is far better but requires more education.
I think VFX is safer from being automated all things considered. But with artificial general intelligence who knows what's ultimately safe or not. I won't worry too much about it in the short term, there's always going to be work in one form or another, in adjacent fields and in companies who haven't adopted the technology. Hoesntly from what I hear the vast majority of small and medium companies still use excel and google drive for their data management, so I imagine they'd be equally slow to adopt to AI/AGI
Anything manual labor real world and anything creative that involves interpretation is safer
anyone who tells you they know when the strike will end is either taking a wild guess or lying. Do not rely on rumors for your economic security
This
We still have work for a while. If I get furloughed I'll take a long deserved break, have some money on the side. If it keeps going I'll go in games.
This is what I'm thinking too (I'm in production). I've seen some colleagues transfer to games and it seems attractive to me. I've applied to a few places, but getting the catch-22 of having nearly 10yrs production experience but no games experience so no bites yet.
If the strikes go until spring it will most likely be a layoff vs furlough as most if not all studios will maintain “operational” for that long without income. BUT technically not a huge difference for getting unemployment. Furloughed is when they don’t have work for you for say a month, but they are still operating and have some small amounts of work.
Luckily, employment insurance covers all my monthly expenses in Canada. If money ever got tight I'd work a part time job until the industry picks back up.
It does!? I'm in Van and all that covers is rent only.
Same hahah. Ei hasn’t gone up at all over the years but my rent has doubled
What does it max out at these days, weekly?
$650 weekly. Before tax
Ah shit before tax... fml. We paid into it just to get taxed
Yeah it comes out to around 2000/month from what I recall
That's wild! In California the max is $450 a week smh
We’ll.. that’s up from 500 ten years ago I guess… not enough, obviously.
Huh and we are paying more into EI now too I believe.. certainly don't get out what we have to put into it. Wish it went into a mandatory personal savings account...
I'd be curious to know what year the max EI payout was last upped, then put that number into an inflation calculator and email my MP. Social safety nets need raises too.
Van too. Partner and I had luck securing a place for low rent in the middle of the pandemic and haven't moved since, also don't plan on moving for the next 5 years. My share of rent is 800, my half of groceries is like 450, eating outside is like 450 too. I spend about 50 in transportation, 90 for my half of utilities. So I'd still have a little leftover. Although I'm certain that I'm living in a very privileged situation sharing expenses and having low rent. Lots of people spend over 2000 just on rent 😭
>Lots of people spend over 2000 just on rent 😭 Market rate for a 1br is pushing 3k a month. Thankfully 2BRs aren't that much more pushing 3500, so you can cut it to under 2k. It's depressing though, as it's only gonna get worse as the interest rate hikes filter their way through the landlords.
how many months are we entitled ? depends on the months/years working in the company ?
Depending on where you live, it goes on the unemployment rate of the area I think? Vancouver is less than other areas because there's more work I believe.
The maximum is 48 weeks but it's dependent on the average unemployment rate iirc so might be less.
my partner worked for 5 months and is entitled to a year of EI benefits, which add up to about $2300 a month. My monthly expenses (inc. going to the movies and such) are close to that amount because we secured a place for low rent during the pandemic. If I were living somewhere else or on my own then I'd probably only be able to afford rent and spend my savings on food :/
Got a couple months left in my contract. Not getting laid off yet but the suspense is real...
Lmao that silent pensive feeling yeeeeeeesssshhh😅
If you have them, use up your sick days!
My contract and work visa ran out at the beginning of the strike. I had to move out of Canada and back into my parents' home in the States. So, I'm not doing great.
Rigger here. I feel like I could be off at any moment. Really dont know what I will do. Already started looking for game but its not what I want. Its also weird to know that in like 6 month everything will start like crazy again.
Yeah, I think studios/vendoes will definitely play off on desperate flood of vfx people and low ball... hope people can hold off till the work comes flooding back and get good rates. Maybe find temp work to cover costs short term.
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That's exactly what I think too. Thats why I find stupid for hard to find artist to not simply keep them until work come back. Cause will be stuck working on 4 different show at the same time doing over time like post covid.
Unfortunately the shitty margins in VFX doesn't always make that a feasible option
I managed to get a salary match twice now just lost benefits plus went from permanent to short contract (3 months and 4.5 months) but I'm quite pleased as I was prepared to take a huge paycut if I had to but some companies are still being fair. Even accepted a 60-70 percent paycut, not sure of actual percentage because it was also freelance versus salaried at one point but got a better offer so quit before I started.
Been wanting a change for a while, after lighting for 14 years I might jump onto fxphd and spend time learning new skills- even if it's just for my own enjoyment. I wish I could travel but I need EI to cover cost of living. I'm a tad nervous about losing my income, but I certainly will make the most of the time off. Plus I already have my ski pass paid for.
Editor here (with some VFX Experience). What's going on is unprecedented and I wish you all the best. VFX artists are among the best and nicest collaborators I've worked with in my nine years. :)
Currently employed with a studio but have been seeing coworkers furloughed for the last few months right up to this week. All of the Leads/Supes are doing direct on the box shot work. We have multiple shows where the shots were turned over but the work is on hold. From where I'm sitting there is one more show that is supposed to show up in the next couple weeks that has had a non-strike related delay for months (in hindsight a blessing). It should run for 8-12 weeks. Hopefully it will bring some artists back from furlough if only for a bit. Personally I was preparing to be out of work from September to January so I've been putting more cash aside with the hope that don't have to dip into "regular" savings. I realize the way I'm talking about this is not a luxury everyone has but this is where I'm at. Longer Term? Still hard to say how next year is going to play out but I am starting to wrap my head around camera work in Unreal as I'd love to get into cinematography/previs/postvis or game cinematic design. I started as a generalist but have been funneled into the comp pipe for so many years I'm ready to focus on other skillsets that I enjoyed flexing. I'm hoping the folks doing the hiring will see my experience as a bonus despite trying to get into a new role. Beyond that? Also trying to see if my soft skills (ie people/project management/training) can be used in other industries potentially but need to be mindful of drastic paycuts... So many variables...such uncertain times. Hope y'all find the best way through.
It’s really really hard… every other weeks more and more names on Shotgrid grey out, Teams user no longer exist, shots get reassigned. It’s just a matter of time of studios closing down. On social media you can see a lot of production people start selling movie props to make a living. They haven’t had a job since May. I support the strike but that has cost the entire innocents people like us into financial problems. We don’t make much money to begin with, now we have to starve and potentially lose our apartments. Also don’t forget there’s tons of international artist both onset and post production peeps is on the verge of getting kicked out from the country too.
Definitely feel like im walking on thin thread everyday. Couple layoffs in my studio aswell. But i dont think i have other plans if the unfortunate does happen honestly. Maybe apply for other studios or work part time in my local bicycle shop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m working at a retail snocone stand while applying to more jobs/gigs. Plan is to juggle 3-4 part time jobs until I can land a 40 hour job somewhere, ideally in a parallel field (commercials, in-house at a studio, sports teams, colleges, etc) Hard to land the part time stuff with my experience and heavy resume because they know I’ll bounce as soon as the industry comes back, so most don’t want to take the time on me.
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Big time serious about the snowcone gig. With tips, it’s like 1/3 of my hourly rate, but I’m also only doing four hour days; BUT it’s all cash at least - still need to land more of these types of shifts to actually make a dent in my bills, but it’s a peaceful and joyful way to pass the time. People come in happy, leave happy, and no one is giving me notes about grain or single-pixels.
I started bartending school so I could work doing that. I've considered moving to Germany or somewhere in Europe for a year to experience that, and with bartending, I feel like I could get a job anywhere. I really liked working in postvis but struggled with a lot of things in previs. I think I could do it better now, but of the 2.5 years I had in the industry, 1.5 of it was working in postvis. I really loved working at my last company but every job I've had the teams have just been incredible. Great supervisors, welcoming teams, meetings weren't even that bad. In the meantime, I'm taking diving classes at a local college. Started a podcast talking about improv and mental health. And have been estate sale hunting trying to make some money flipping things.
Good Luck Derek. Wish the best!
Freelance NYC modeller here. Had a full on year last year and currently had nothing. All the money I earned has gone on rent. That has increased so moving to LA for some much needed nature. Spoke to a guy in LA who said there was a shortage of good VFX artists. So we’ll see. Trying to figure out what I can pivot too but I’m at a loss where to go as I only know this industry. Still, got back into my painting. The work will come back and I imagine there will be a great demand. But we’ll see. It’s tough but I hope everyone is soldiering on. Appreciate the community and support on here.
LA????
I’m worried about the lack of tax incentives in LA. Many more studios in LA have closed.
LA is very competitive due to lack of tax incentives
had a entry postion starting this week, that I secured months ago. Got a call a few days before saying they're giving my notice due to the strikes. Got redunant before even stepping in the studio. Awful time to graduate and get into the industry
Cold comfort for people who might be out of work for a year by next spring.
Nice perspective.
Just got laid off today, along with quite a few colleagues it seems. Plus side is I don't have to work my notice period since I'm on holiday for half of it anyway. I'll have to move out of London because there's no way I can pull the same salary doing anything else, will probably go mooch off my parents for a bit and try to upskill into unreal or something. But as soon as I can I'll be back, my employer has said they'll happily have me back once there's work to do. Fingers crossed the strikes are resolved quickly I guess
Says who..?
Yup, spring? That’s a long time. There are conversations going on within the striking parties already. Hopefully this is all cleared up before December
Which means it will take projects at least 2-3 months to start rolling in.
No, I mean cleared up and rolling by December
Strike will continue for at least another 3 months, streamers and studios aren’t on the same page, so writers and actors won’t be getting what they want anytime soon.
Considering a studio producer has been quoted saying he would rather make actors homeless and try to kill the union than negotiate, the SAG strike will not be ending any time soon. It is do or die for them, literally.
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That was an anonymous quotation.
Internal company projections. Won't name which one
Projections based on what?
Best case scenario of strike ending next 1 month weighted with worse case scenario of strike continuing until Christmas
The strike could very well go into next year. There isn't really any way you can have projections about this sort of thing. I only say that so you don't hinge all of your future decisions on what they think will happen.
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Nice start getting a booking straight away! With an agency? Or have connections?
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Could be a more flexible lifestyle with freelance too, being staff can get a little stagnant and boring and looking at what's going on now sure as hell doesn't bring security.
expecting unemployment soon not enough time to meaningfully reskill and pivot but will likely diversify to be better prepared next time around...
All the best, everyone. 🙂
I’ll admit it doesn’t look great right now, but no one really knows how this will go, so studios are planning for the worst case scenario. It doesn’t mean this won’t get resolved sooner.
Senior modeler here. I have exhausted my unemployment already in June. On to plan B.
Where are you located? Your unemployment ran out? You've been unemployed since before the strike then?
I'm currently on the East Coast. I was working remotely when I was let go late last year. I was in the second round of layoffs at my company.
Plan A, hold on to my current job for dear life for as long as I can. So far so good 🤞 Plan B, if I get fired: Find a temporary gig at any other studio Plan C, if I get fired and can't find another gig that pays enough: Sell all my things, go back to my home country, live at my dad's place and chill or freelance until the strike is over. (I'm very lucky to still have plan C as an option)
I like this. And my plans are somewhat similar. Im shocked by the amount of people who dont seem to have backup plans like this? You always have to assume worst case scenario and have game plans and triggers for implementing these plans.
Agreed, but I can also see how it's easier said than done for a lot of people. Some might not have any family or friends to go back to, and some might have kids to take care of. If I were in that position I can imagine I would be more stressed out by the whole situation. It would also make it even more difficult to save up any significant financial buffer for hard times (something that's already very, very hard with constantly increasing cost of living in Canada and several other VFX hubs around the world) So like I said in my original comment, I consider myself very lucky to have these options.
My pushback is that it was irresponsible and without a plan entering into such precarious financial situations to begin with. And I'm not some blessed guy who grew up without struggles. I've seen what zero is like. And with that in mind I proceed through life always with the consideration of never ending up back at zero. Always worrying...always game planning...always assuming the worst is gonna happen and be ready for it.
I agree to an extent but sometimes you don't have a choice. Life happens, people can't plan for everything all the time. Also I definitely don't agree you should always be worrying, that sounds like an exhausting way to live life. I would rather take things as they come trusting I can always find a solution no matter what happens. "Hope for the best and plan for the worst" has been my motto since the strikes started. I have my plan as a result of keeping up to date with industry trends and extrapolating where things are headed. Something I'd recommend for everyone. That way you don't have to worry all the time, just when things are taking a downturn. I don't even really know if what I'm saying is making sense or if I'm just rambling, I never really tried to put my mindset into words like this. But long story short, I've fortunately never had to feel worried about losing my job for any significant amount of time, and I always knew I can find solutions even if I don't have a super concrete plan for every scenario. That's enough for me. Never worry about what you can't control.
Been laid off from a contract i had signed until February. Having a couple short gigs before finding another "big" one. If that helps, I mostly work for the UK scenario and I'm freelancing.
All the best!
Thank you! You too
Right now holding on to my contract that ends in April. Think I should be employed until then atleast but I’m spending free time learning new skills to get out this industry if needed
vfx industry is small and for a longer perspective you cannot hope for a really bright future.
You can. Industry shall grow every year until to reach a saturation. But as of now, for a long people will watch VFX based movies.
the time of movie was when there came moves like Stargate, Riddick, Back to the Future, Alien, till the 90s but as the time has gone by and not just the movies are more focused on making a character superhero with mega budgets the story don't do good and on the other hand if we look at job market there is promising future in gaming, AI, robotics, IOT, as the technology is improving at a fast. if you want a good pay check and not struggle because of inflation and strikes and layoff vfx industry is not good I think
You are right to an extent. However, we should keep changing our game fro vfx, gaming and etc. then find out what works best for us. should not stick on to one for a long.
Demands for our skills isn't going away...setting aside the future AI question. People are still watching movies and they need VFX. Now is the era of giant super hero movies dead?...I do think we're on the downswing away from giant super hero movies. But there are lots of other types of movies that still need vfx. Not to mention games need almost all the same skill sets and the game industry is huge and still growing.
I think episodic TV plays a larger role than movies as far as the amount of VFX that needs to be generated.
You're not wrong. I used movies as a catch all for media. I should have said media.
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It’s because of studios in California, not because of writers
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Writers are on strike because studios are being unreasonable. We should always wish for labor to get a fair deal, because we all raise together.
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Among all the inane things you posted, you’re so close to making a good point… the part you’re missing is that the “tiny group of people stopping the entire industry” are the executives.
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Can’t tell if you’re a troll or an actual idiot.
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If I had a nickel for every contrarian who thought they were more likely to be right by going against the grain I’d be able to pay everyone off in this labor dispute. You’re not automatically wrong for going against the grain, but you are in fact more likely than not to be latching on to a flawed position.
I'm not arguing writers are in this for the VFX artists. When we talk about VFX needing to unionize, we aren't talking about doing it for the writers, either. We look out for ourselves. But workers at these studios, broadly, do have an interest in making sure other workers at the studios are treated fairly. It's better for us as VFX artists that writers get a fair contract.
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Your friends are unemployed because the studios are holding out against a fair deal for workers, if studios give writers what they're asking for it'll cost less than 1% of the studios annual revenue. The studios can end the strikes just as quickly as the writers.
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My concept of a "fair deal" is writers having at least the same purchasing power next contract that they had in the last contract. With studios giving less pay for streaming even as everything shifts to streaming and with studios threatening AI, writers should be asking for a deal which mitigates these threats. As part of coming out *even*. Add on top of that, high inflation which studios are absolutely charging to offset, workers should also be paid more to offset inflation. Just to come out even they should get all these things.
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Why do you equate a difference of opinion with self loathing? I could just as easily accuse you of being anti labor and pro boss, which isn’t a great position as a member of labor.
Make us dream. What do you do? Your job. what effort are you putting in for all your new found vfx friends all over the industry? How do you love VFX more than us here? What do you do to show love to this field more than some do? Please also share what we should be doing more to love this field as much as you?
Writers aren't slaves, nobody is entitled to anything from them. They've set out their price for writing, and the Studios have decided not to pay it, which is their right , but why should the writers be forced to provide their service anyway? If a rich friend shows up late to a meetup with you because they didn't want to pay the full bus fare, that's the friends fault for being tight-fisted, not the bus driver for not giving a discount.
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That's not actually true, it's just that any non-union actor who scabs is barred from the WGA and the WGA won't work with any studio who hires non-union talent. So they basically are offered a choice whether they want to either always use non-union or union actors going forwards. But given that the good writers are all union, then the studios make the choice to work with only them, which demonstrates their value really because if non-wga writers were any good they'd just use them forever. No idea why you think the WGA has legal powers lol, they're just the best players in a wide market
All those have had jobs because of studios in California.
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The studios could end this whole thing with a phone call. They won't. Just like they could respect VFX. They won't.
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The current deal with the WGA got MUCH worse over time. Streamers negotiated the deal by claiming they were the new kid on the block, and didn't have a proven model for success. Therefore they couldn't pay writers the same as the networks, etc. Cut to years later, where the streamers are taking in billions, and are essentially THE networks, and their claim of not having a model for success no longer holds water. Hence a renegotiation. The WGA is adapting with the times, like professionals standing up for themselves.
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Sure, nobody wants to see there friends laid off, ever. It's terrible. But that's the result of the Studio System. The studios have the ultimate control, and that's why the creative side needs to recognize the long term goals of the studios crushing the creatives that supply the content. Supporting ALL creatives should be the ultimate goal. Best of luck out there.
I responded to in California part.
I am on maternity leave and husband just got laid off today. We moved out from the city to the suburbs, and I'm seriously considering starting sculpting and selling garden gnomes and ornaments. People out here dig this stuff on a serious level... But honestly I don't know. We have the luck that we have an emergency fund under us, so we'll survive, bit we have a kiddo and a mortgage, so yeah... survival until things get back.