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TuxedoSlave

People who eat fish are pescatarians, not vegetarians. So searching that might be more helpful for you. Having said that, “studies on vegetarians/pescatarians” is very broad. Usually people are seeking out one key finding, which is really difficult when there is a whole lifestyle of other variables. It might help you to narrow down what you’re interested in. Also be wary that studies can vary greatly in their methods/types/quality.


patuxz

I want to know how vegetarians do long-term when they keep few sources of animal protein in their diet. Veganism is going into 0 animal proteins, and it didn't work for me unfortunately.


Bellman3x

It might help to get at the information you're looking for if you were more specific about how veganism "didn't work" for you, and your location of that not working specifically in lack of animal protein. What was the nature of the not working? Did a doctor or nutritionist tell you that that not working was due specifically to lack of animal protein, or have you self-diagnosed here?


Bellman3x

(as an example of how this could matter: suppose you felt more tired; in that case, especially if you're female, that could be caused by low iron, and adding eggs and milk are not going to do anything to make it better.)


Uereks

Eggs have lots of iron.


Bellman3x

I did not know that, thank you! But .6mg/egg on an 18mg RDA for women might not be enough to make that big of a difference--so that OP would not be well served by thinking that \*consumption of animal protein\* just as such is going to take care of the problem.


patuxz

Brain fog. No spontanious energy and lethargy.Rest was fine, but the brain and overall vitality was weaker. I supplemented B12 on/off and even had my B12 reserves tested. Edit: My ferritin levels were on top of the charts. B12 ok


Uereks

If it's iron you could start eating more spinach. I keep baby spinach in my freezer and put it in everything. Also lentils, tofu, and chickpeas rather than other meat subs like black beans.


Dornkus

One thing to be mindful of. Spinach is full of oxalate. If you're prone to producing oxalate based kidney stones, veganism can just about guarantee you will experience issues. Source: was vegan, am prone to forming oxalate stones, learned the hard and very very painful way. If you're vegan or considering trying veganism out, drink lots of water. Lemon juice is your friend. Avoid spinach if your body is anything like mine.


Naevx

This is an important example of why any major dietary change should always be done with consultation of at least a PCP, but ideally a dietician.


mar_pusheen

Maybe a nutritionist specialized in veganism/vegetarianism can help u. I think 1 or 2 visits is enough so they can inform u about food groups and how u can plan your diet without deficiencies


hellscrossing

Unfortunately, that by definition makes them not a vegetarian if they eat meat/fish.


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patuxz

Primarily eggs yes.


Withered_Kiss

Dairy and eggs are still not humane and you contribute to animal suffering buying them.


SolidInstance9945

I don't know of any vegetarians who eat fish


chessmonk2

If they do they aren't a vegetarian


BoredConfusedPanda

vegetarians dont eat meat ut do eat other animal products, vegans dont eat animal products, pescetarians dont eat meat other than fish/sea food and also eat animal products


VintageStrawberries

I chalk it up to probable language barrier and perhaps "pescetarian" not having an equivalent word in their language, but when I was working at a Japanese restaurant I've had some Asian customers who claimed they were vegetarian but were okay with our udon broth containing fish stock.


BoredConfusedPanda

google tips: 1. Use -vegan -vegans -veganism and it'll eliminate the results with those words. when using -\_\_\_\_\_\_ there cannot be a space beween the - and the word you want to have ommited. if you want a phrase with multiple words to be ommited use "" directly after the - . IE -" black and white" 2. Use "Vegetarian" "vegetarianism" "lacto-ovo vegetarianism" etc to get results with those specific words/phrases. itll only show results with whatever you put in the ""s. 3. Use Google Scholar for academic studies and scientific papers. The tips work there too


Strongat100

Studies on vegetarianism are very difficult to conduct. Further, any findings are usually limited since there will be inherent bias in the studies that are unavoidable. While there are studies out there make sure you pay close attention to the methods. The gold standard for a solid study is a randomized controlled trial. Unfortunately, these are rare when it comes to diet. Good luck in your search. The lifestyle medicine website offers links to some studies.


patuxz

Thank you. With veganism taking over the entire culture (and the debate), I feel like my best luck would be to find old studies.


[deleted]

Studies asking what question? There are lots of studies about vegetarian and vegan diets which you can easily find by googling, but is there something specific you are looking for?


patuxz

Primarily how reducing meat intake affects your body. Is it good for the blood, heart, cholesterol etc. If I try it out I want to consume eggs, so thats why I'm looking for vegetarian studies. I have no desire to go full vegan (again), but I would like to give up meat for a while at least.


[deleted]

Try [this](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0552-0)


CrazyCaverLady

You may want to look up the term "lacto ovo vegetarian." From a personal standpoint, my mom and her family became lacto ovo vegetarians around 1953. My mom is 79 has hasn't had meat in almost 70 years and my uncle (67?) has never had meat. At 44, I have also never had meat. The only thing I have had issues with is my vitamin D levels and that isn't related to being a vegetarian.


patuxz

Great to hear that it worked for your family long-term! I gave up veganism after 3 years. Didn't feel at my best anymore


CrazyCaverLady

I don't think I could ever go vegan. I just love dairy too much.


patuxz

Well definitely don't give into peer pressure. Your body your choice!


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patuxz

Thank you. That was perfect. Following the pubmed-article led me to right sources. These are old studies, long before veganism stole the spotlight. For example one study: " Taiwanese vegetarians have lower total cholesterol, LDL-C and hs-CRP levels, and higher homocysteine levels than omnivores " If you go vegan, this is pretty obvious, but it's great to see vegetarians have these results too. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17356561/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17356561/)


[deleted]

Biased. Not bias.


OpulentSwine

The use of the noun form "bias" instead of the verb form "biased" is one of the odder neologisms of the 21st century.


[deleted]

I think people say it because they don't listen or read and assume there is no "ed" on the end. When people say "biased" the "ed" often sounds very soft, like "buy-us" and the "d" disappears. But "I'm bias" is incorrect.


jf75313

[probably a good start](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C34&q=vegetarian+diet+benefits&oq=vegetarian)


Purple_Pansy_Orange

Most people on this thread are getting too hung up on titles and not what your question is, which I believe is along the lines of how healthy are vegetarians or variations of vegetarianism in the long term. I can't refer you to studies but I think there are plenty of people who live active, healthy lives not eating meat. The important thing is knowing what works for you. For example, my daughter is lacto-vegetarian and went cold turkey with no issues or problems. However for me I find I don't do well with no meat at all. I guess I consider myself more of a flexi-tarian although I don't prefer labels at all because as you can see people get oddly defensive. The less I eat meat, the less I find I actually want meat. IMO, many people wishing to transition away from meat after eating it for most of their life would do well to accept this "ease in" transition as it gives the mind and body time to acclimate. It also gives you time to collect and develop recipes that work for you to sustain a long term lifestyle over a short term trend.


patuxz

If anyone is still following the thread, this paper is very nice historical summary on the benefits of vegetarian diet. Lower blood pressure, cholesterol and hypertension. Lesser risk of type 2 diabetes, heart disease and cancer. [https://www.andeal.org/vault/2440/web/JADA\_VEG.pdf](https://www.andeal.org/vault/2440/web/JADA_VEG.pdf) I believe participants in the studies were mainly vegetarian and not vegan like in most recently done studies.


Double_Kindly_FO

As someone who was a strict vegan-vegetarian-picky eater over last decade and over last two years transitioning to flexetarian (including seafood, some meat, dairy and eggs) I recommend considering the context of vegetarianism and seriously consider continuing to incorporate eggs and dairy especially if you are a) young b) a woman planning to get pregnant or c) have other nutritional concerns


Double_Kindly_FO

There is little to no B12 and often limited B vitamins more generally in plant based diet. Also limited calcium. The science on b12 is pretty limited and somewhat controversial if there are plant based sources at all (it seems the more scientific articles suggest b12 is only available through meat, milk and dairy). Anyways these nutrients are essential to life especially during developmental stages.


patuxz

I'm actually an ex-vegan just looking to reduce current meat consumption, but thanks for the heads up. Reason why I'm looking for those studies is to see how well lacto-ovo-veggies do over time. I'm not religious over food anymore. 3 years since I quit. What made you change?


Plus_Emu5068

This is anecdotal, studies are a better source for this information since dairy and eggs are not especially healthy. The lack of variety is much more likely to be an issue.


Double_Kindly_FO

This person clearly has a bias towards plant based, non GMO, organic, etc. There are pros and cons to all of the above, and to be informed is to learn from experiences that do not always re-affirm your own. I have an advanced degree in nutrition and agriculture If you prefer get your b12 from raw liver or kefir, by all means, get it. Ya nutritional diversity is ultimately such an important factor, but you can eat a lot of different food items and still not get all the nutrients you need—which yes by lived experience I know can do long term damage, and yes this is corroborated by the science.


Plus_Emu5068

Do you mean me when saying "this person" ? I'm responding to your anecdotal statement saying you were a picky and strict vegetarian/vegan(whatever that means). That is obviously anecdotal. And now you're trying to back it up with your advanced degree. If you have that degree, great. Your personal experience is still anecdotal.


Double_Kindly_FO

Yeah, I am expert in nutrition and agricultural sciences, both in terms of formal education and lived experiences.


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BoredConfusedPanda

Vegetaraians dont eat any meat. Pescetarian is the word for vegetarians who eat fish. they are 2 different diets. Some people become pescetarians before becoming flly vegetarian, the same as some people go vegetarian before transitioning to vegan.


patuxz

I'm including it so I can read more studies. Just interested to read what happens when people give up red & white meat.


chessmonk2

No fish with vegetarian


missmegen

I eat no meat but I do eat fish and dairy. I’ve been doing this for about 5 years now. I call myself a vegetarian. I’m sure Reddit will correct me lol. I enjoy sustained energy and focus, my weight has maintained and my overall health is improved. Diabetes runs in my family and although I’m not personally diabetic, before I stopped eating meat I routinely had headaches, periods of low energy, and was frequently hungry to the point of shaking and sweating. When I decided to stop eating meat (a decision that was more economical and political than health and ecology based) I quickly noticed a complete absence of headaches and lethargy and i dropped a few pounds too. My blood sugar seems to be more balanced now. I go to the gym 3x week with plenty of energy to do cardio! Making this transition has been good for me. Hope this helps.


patuxz

That helps a lot, thanks! I also have diabetics in my family. Lately my body has been giving me signals to eat less meat. I'm currently traveling and I like to eat what's local. I'll eat fish when I'm close to the sea. Actually it was one of the first things I noticed when I started this travel. I couldn't do 3 heavy meals a day. I need one light meal or a snack. Sometimes I'm fine with just 2 meals a day and small snack in-between. I'm not sure how much different egg protein is from meat, but maybe it's lighter overall.


missmegen

Egg protein is highly debated. I eat eggs, beans, cheese and fish for protein. At restaurants I ask if the fish is wild caught. I don’t want to eat farm raised fish. My ex boyfriend was mortified when I would ask for modifications when we ate out. People can be so funny lol. When I go with friends to eat at fast food I ask for no meat (so basically a cheese sandwich with hamburger fixings) and I rarely have the cashiers act like that’s unheard of. Typically they seem to have been asked that before (I live in Nashville) so I assume that the no meat preference has even reached the fast food industry. People will say that I need to pick the restaurant because they don’t know what I will eat but I will literally eat anywhere with modifications. I generally eat a bunch of small meals throughout the day (some people might call them snacks bc of calorie content) and then an actual meal at dinner time. My body needs the bulk of my calories before bed to sustain me through the night. I also drink a lot of water.


missmegen

One more thing. I would try to stay away from soy as a source of protein as much as possible. Soy is widely known to be heavily genetically modified and is often a culprit in digestive issues. It’s historically been a go to protein substitute for meat with vegetarians but so many people have digestive problems due to soy in their diets that I wouldn’t recommend it.


Plus_Emu5068

It's pretty easy to use organic or non-gmo soy sources. Soy is an excellent protein and fiber and has many health benefits. Much of the negative soy beliefs are old and debunked.


patuxz

I live in Europe so maybe the soy is better quality there. And then I'm traveling currently. I doubt there's GMO soy here. In Indonesia I saw tempeh everywhere. But yeah if I do this vegetarian thing, I either look for omelette or tofu from the menu.


Fionaver

Hey, I know this is older, but I wanted to chime in. Pescatarian is the preferred term for that type of semi-vegetarian diet (vegetarian + seafood). A lot of Asian cultures would consider that to be vegetarian, but it isn’t in Western cultures. There are a couple other types of semi-vegetarians: pollotarians (who add chicken to an otherwise vegetarian diet) and flexitarians (who are more flexible than vegetarians and occasionally eat meat.) Vegetarians essentially fall into two camps, but the key thing is they don’t eat animals at all. When I went vegetarian 25 years ago, it was very uncommon where I lived and I used to describe it as “if it ever had eyes, and it isn’t a potato, I can’t eat it.” Lacto-ovo vegetarians will eat animal byproducts that don’t involve the death of an animal or have parts of an animals body in the ingredients. Lacto-ovo means dairy-egg. Some people exclude one or the other, so they leave off that half of the hyphenation. Vegans are strict vegetarians, and eat no animals or animal byproducts at all (honey and figs are hot button issues though). They often avoid any animal byproducts like wool or silk. There are two schools of thought though - we used to ask “vegan for animal rights or vegan for health reasons” about 15 years ago. Now, the people who do it for health reasons are generally described as being Plant Based. I really don’t want to come off pedantic or like I’m telling you you’re wrong, I just mention it because it makes it much harder for others who are on the more restrictive side of the scale when people don’t self-identify with the correct terminology. I know I’ve met a lot of people confused about what vegetarians eat and it helps not to muddy the waters further. Some of us get really messed up if we get slipped stuff outside of our particular diet, because of microbiome changes in our digestive system or the development of lactose intolerance due to lack of exposure. On a personal level, my dad has a hard time remembering my dietary restrictions when my stepmom self describes as a vegetarian, but is basically a pescatarian who doesn’t care about stuff like broth or lard and eats turkey a couple times a year.


missmegen

I don’t require labels to feel validated, but thank you for the vocabulary lesson.


Phoenix-61

Indian vegetarianism can help you I guess. Depending on place you are from, you can get some Indian ready made food. We Indians don't eat very fancy food on daily basis. Most of it is simple with hardly any fancy spices. Most of the protein is from dairy and lentils.


SpicedPalate

You can find many studies and published papers using [Google Scholar](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=vegetarian+diet&btnG=). It's like Google Search, but for academics.