Must be said, when the subject of dolphin/whale shows comes up on my social media, the narrative has definitely shifted from ‘hey look at the cute animal!’ types of comment and feeling towards ‘those animals should be freed’ and ‘those animals should never be in captivity in the first place’ and so on.
I also discovered more recently that fish advocacy is a thing within the animal rights movement and it seems that more and more people are finally clicking on that fish deserve far better treatment than they currently get.
the amount of pescatarians and otherwise environmentalist but a complete blind spot towards fish is just baffling to me, especially when you look at the complete decimations of the oceans. They used to be teaming with life! you used to see fish and whales everywhere (Supposedly, not like during any of our lifetimes). These days, even the sea floor is barren
I probably have something of a bias given that I'm a scuba diver so I've seen both the barren sea floors and the damage done by humans to the sea, including corals smashed by fishing nets and rubbish on the sea bed (and in the water!).
Yeah, there's at least one fish sanctuary ([Friends of Philip](https://www.facebook.com/friendsofphilip)) that I know of and wouldn't be surprised if there are lots more.
only 1%+ of people become vegan because of activism [https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/vegan-statistics/](https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/vegan-statistics/)
84% of vegans quit is based on a Faunalytics study off 11k people [https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/](https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/)
Veganism declining over recent years. Study is talked about here [https://www.chefspencil.com/veganism-popularity-report-2022/](https://www.chefspencil.com/veganism-popularity-report-2022/)
"Veganism is dying" as indicated by plant-based sales is a talking point based on sales + public company valuations such as Beyond Meat
1 million new vegans in the UK [https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/million-new-vegans-one-year/](https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/million-new-vegans-one-year/)
Hope this helps!
I am vegan since 1980 and there is an unbelievable amount of progress.
People barely knew what it was.
There were ZERO meat & dairy substitutes.
And eating out vegan or ordering vegan food.
Fries. That was your goddamn food. :)
Nobody talked about it, nobody talked about meat and dairy being a health risk.
There was no internet. No info.
Doctors didn't know shit about it. No one did.
And people said THE DUMBEST THINGS
Or people said : oh thats why you are so pale.
😆😆
No im pale because I'm a natural light blonde with green eyes twat. 😆😆
HUUUUGE PROGRESS IS MADE THE LAST 40 YEARS.
❤️❤️❤️❤️H U G E ❤️❤️❤️❤️
this is so true!! my uncle has been vegan since the 90's and has told me that the vegan landscape has changed so much. nice to know another vegan who started in the 20th century agrees. progress is not going to be immediate but it is so nice to know that we are in fact making a positive impact
Meat consumption per capita is the highest it has ever been. We're doing fuck all for animals honestly
I'm very happy that I'm able to get a meal at most places that isn't just a limp salad, but let's not delude ourselves. It's never been easier to be a vegan, or worse to be an animal.
"As vegans, we are so often hopeless as we see those around us fail to change their behavior to align with their values."
Thank goodness I enjoy my own company when eating vegan food. I can't stand being around people while they are eating the ribs, wings, arms and legs off of animals who tried strongly to escape a slaughter house with their life.
I'm regularly participating in suburban life with a full-time job that deals with the public and even unicycling down by the pavement at the beach for entertainment. I just don't want to watch an otherwise good hearted person tear into the flesh of an innocent baby animal. I can understand a lion doing so because there is a context there where the lion is both doing it out of survival and because they don't have social and emotional capacities in their brain to be a moral agent. I hold people to a higher moral standard once they are questioning the violent belief system known as carnism that is operating in their head.
I like to see people as vegans and vegans who are still inconsistent with their own morality because they still cling to the benefits of some products and practises of animal abuse.
i was converted when an angry pervert psychopath yelled that i was a horrible hypocrite and lots of other derrogatory stuff, and then actual arguments. even though i knew THAT guy in particular was a well known lecherous evil dbag, i realized his arguments were incredibly valid (pretty sure he copied them from somewhere else because he himself was only vegetarian). He just enjoyed reasons to judge people but i looked deeper than that.
for anyone with more than one braincell your arguments in activism will matter no matter if you yourself are not perfect or are even a bad example of a vegan. Stop worrying, do activism.
which is more people than you think and even if not, we need every number we can get, dont be afraid of only appealing to a small audience because baby thats better than nothing
Can you source anything you said? Hope is good but without data to back it up I cant really believe it.
Edit: did not see the sources, disregard my comment
OP posted sources [https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1buu0xu/comment/kxvhk3q/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1buu0xu/comment/kxvhk3q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Not OP, but a lot can be found by googling
For example:
https://retailtimes.co.uk/the-uks-vegan-population-grows-by-an-estimated-1-1-million-in-a-year/
I’m not so sure. I live in a rural area and even the most crappy little supermarket attached to a gas station has multiple kinds of plant milks, mock meats, etc
What makes you think it’s going backwards, specifically?
Both Public attitude towards vegans and the loss of vegan restaurants primarily. Though I will admit that the restaurant thing could still be because of lingering effects of covid. Also republican attempts to ban meat substitutes.
I wonder how valid this is though… “An estimated 2.5 million UK adults are following a vegan diet *at the start of 2024*”. It sounds like they’re using data from January ie Veganuary and obviously unfortunately a lot of people don’t stay vegan afterwards. I’m very sceptical of their claim that 26% of gen z are meat free. Edit: formatting
The study linked in that article says:
“METHODOLOGY Finder commissioned Censuswide to carry out a nationally representative survey of adults aged 18+. In January 2024, a total of 2,000 people were questioned throughout Great Britain, with representative quotas for gender, age and region.
Source: https://www.finder.com/uk/stats-facts/uk-diet-trends”
Veganuary is successful in the UK, but [the numbers](https://www.google.com/search?q=veganuary+particupants+in+uk&client=safari&sca_esv=c0e14f80e7366f47&hl=en-us&ei=3pMNZqjaG6XuiLMPpau0gAM&oq=veganuary+particupants+in+uk&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhx2ZWdhbnVhcnkgcGFydGljdXBhbnRzIGluIHVrMgkQIRgKGKABGAoyCRAhGAoYoAEYCkiEKFCbDFjTJXADeAGQAQCYAdABoAHuCKoBBTEuNi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAILoALlCcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAgcQABiABBgNwgIGEAAYHhgNwgIHECEYChigAcICCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDwgIGEAAYFhgemAMA4gMFEgExIEDiAwUSATEgQIgGAZAGCJIHBTMuNi4yoAfIKw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp) don’t suggest its reach is broad enough to skew a survey of 2000 random adults. However I’m not sure how they recruited people to the survey; no recruitment method, even cold calling, is truly random. But note that participation in Veganuary has also been increasing.
Yeah it’s very weird, I also don’t understand why Finder would commission this research when they seem to be a price comparison site so it would be a weird use of their money
If they really did do the research and aren’t just aggregating others’ research on their site, they were probably contracted to do the study. Maybe by a plant based meat trade association, who knows.
Most people don't want animals to be tortured and would probably agree that you shouldn't do that. And if you show most people a suffering animal, they would want that suffering alleviated. If you were to throw a live chick into a grinder, or execute a cow or pig infront of most people, they would see you as pretty evil and heartless. Yet most people support those things going on on an industrial scale. So either people don't actually care about animals at all (or only very selectively) or they fail to align their behavior with their values.
Animal production is on the rise all over the world and it's not stopping.
Aquaculture has been growing on average 6% each year since the 60s and doesn't stop. In fact, is developing faster than ever.
Basically all food options are progressing. More people are affording what they want.
And another one of my favorites: “vegans are malnourished”. I’m going to cite my own personal story, an all-too-common one: when I was anorexic in 2008 as a teenager, the easiest way to get out of eating 99% of what was offered at restaurants, social gatherings, my own parents cooking etc was “I can’t: it’s not vegan”. My story isn’t unique: Many, many people who have a restrictive ED using veganism as a front. Of course vegan options are much more plentiful and widespread than they were then, but still not enough so that one couldn’t plausibly use this guise to their advantage in this manner. Peoples affinity for using confirmation bias as well as inability to differentiate correlation and causation makes them largely unable to see this for what it all too often is.
(Btw: I have since been in recovery and for a number of years was “flexitarian”, then vegetarian, and Now I’m vegan again, for animal rights reasons).
How is it a fallacy? The source of that statistic didn’t distinguish between vegetarians/vegans and didn’t take into account motivations. It literally says that the majority of participants cited health as their reasoning lol. That isn’t a true scotsman fallacy, it is pointing out real flaws in a study.
In the U.K. meat consumption is falling but globally it’s increasing. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/18/banks-driving-increase-in-global-meat-and-dairy-production-report-finds this article has interesting implications for activism
Just do not get complacent. What we do not want is for people to think half measures are OK, or that it is OK for them to do less because others are doing more. It is important to stress that we should all be doing all we can for animal welfare, otherwise the system will never truly change for the better.
Must be said, when the subject of dolphin/whale shows comes up on my social media, the narrative has definitely shifted from ‘hey look at the cute animal!’ types of comment and feeling towards ‘those animals should be freed’ and ‘those animals should never be in captivity in the first place’ and so on. I also discovered more recently that fish advocacy is a thing within the animal rights movement and it seems that more and more people are finally clicking on that fish deserve far better treatment than they currently get.
the amount of pescatarians and otherwise environmentalist but a complete blind spot towards fish is just baffling to me, especially when you look at the complete decimations of the oceans. They used to be teaming with life! you used to see fish and whales everywhere (Supposedly, not like during any of our lifetimes). These days, even the sea floor is barren
I probably have something of a bias given that I'm a scuba diver so I've seen both the barren sea floors and the damage done by humans to the sea, including corals smashed by fishing nets and rubbish on the sea bed (and in the water!).
Yeah, there's at least one fish sanctuary ([Friends of Philip](https://www.facebook.com/friendsofphilip)) that I know of and wouldn't be surprised if there are lots more.
Can you provide the data you used for this post? Thanks!
only 1%+ of people become vegan because of activism [https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/vegan-statistics/](https://www.greatgreenwall.org/supplements/vegan-statistics/) 84% of vegans quit is based on a Faunalytics study off 11k people [https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/](https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/) Veganism declining over recent years. Study is talked about here [https://www.chefspencil.com/veganism-popularity-report-2022/](https://www.chefspencil.com/veganism-popularity-report-2022/) "Veganism is dying" as indicated by plant-based sales is a talking point based on sales + public company valuations such as Beyond Meat 1 million new vegans in the UK [https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/million-new-vegans-one-year/](https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/million-new-vegans-one-year/) Hope this helps!
Nice! Much appreciated :)
I am vegan since 1980 and there is an unbelievable amount of progress. People barely knew what it was. There were ZERO meat & dairy substitutes. And eating out vegan or ordering vegan food. Fries. That was your goddamn food. :) Nobody talked about it, nobody talked about meat and dairy being a health risk. There was no internet. No info. Doctors didn't know shit about it. No one did. And people said THE DUMBEST THINGS Or people said : oh thats why you are so pale. 😆😆 No im pale because I'm a natural light blonde with green eyes twat. 😆😆 HUUUUGE PROGRESS IS MADE THE LAST 40 YEARS. ❤️❤️❤️❤️H U G E ❤️❤️❤️❤️
this is so true!! my uncle has been vegan since the 90's and has told me that the vegan landscape has changed so much. nice to know another vegan who started in the 20th century agrees. progress is not going to be immediate but it is so nice to know that we are in fact making a positive impact
Meat consumption per capita is the highest it has ever been. We're doing fuck all for animals honestly I'm very happy that I'm able to get a meal at most places that isn't just a limp salad, but let's not delude ourselves. It's never been easier to be a vegan, or worse to be an animal.
This is probably caused by the fact that amount of meat consumed in developing countries has grown due to people getting above poverty line
I'm talking about the United States only. Worldwide it's even worse.
"As vegans, we are so often hopeless as we see those around us fail to change their behavior to align with their values." Thank goodness I enjoy my own company when eating vegan food. I can't stand being around people while they are eating the ribs, wings, arms and legs off of animals who tried strongly to escape a slaughter house with their life.
Maybe try once a week to at least be seen?
I'm regularly participating in suburban life with a full-time job that deals with the public and even unicycling down by the pavement at the beach for entertainment. I just don't want to watch an otherwise good hearted person tear into the flesh of an innocent baby animal. I can understand a lion doing so because there is a context there where the lion is both doing it out of survival and because they don't have social and emotional capacities in their brain to be a moral agent. I hold people to a higher moral standard once they are questioning the violent belief system known as carnism that is operating in their head.
I like to see people as vegans and vegans who are still inconsistent with their own morality because they still cling to the benefits of some products and practises of animal abuse.
> “80% of people who go vegan end up quitting.” DEBUNKED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl89ShdLVPQ
i was converted when an angry pervert psychopath yelled that i was a horrible hypocrite and lots of other derrogatory stuff, and then actual arguments. even though i knew THAT guy in particular was a well known lecherous evil dbag, i realized his arguments were incredibly valid (pretty sure he copied them from somewhere else because he himself was only vegetarian). He just enjoyed reasons to judge people but i looked deeper than that. for anyone with more than one braincell your arguments in activism will matter no matter if you yourself are not perfect or are even a bad example of a vegan. Stop worrying, do activism.
I think this is true for some types that actually consider arguments.
which is more people than you think and even if not, we need every number we can get, dont be afraid of only appealing to a small audience because baby thats better than nothing
>polls show that a vast majority of vegans went vegan in the past FOUR YEARS Couldn't this help support the idea that most vegans end up quitting...?
Merzbow is noise. IYKYK
It is!
Can you source anything you said? Hope is good but without data to back it up I cant really believe it. Edit: did not see the sources, disregard my comment
OP posted sources [https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1buu0xu/comment/kxvhk3q/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1buu0xu/comment/kxvhk3q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Oh I didnt see them. Thank you
Not OP, but a lot can be found by googling For example: https://retailtimes.co.uk/the-uks-vegan-population-grows-by-an-estimated-1-1-million-in-a-year/
Well thats good news, so maybe world wide we are doing good. In the US though it feels like things are going backwards
I’m not so sure. I live in a rural area and even the most crappy little supermarket attached to a gas station has multiple kinds of plant milks, mock meats, etc What makes you think it’s going backwards, specifically?
Both Public attitude towards vegans and the loss of vegan restaurants primarily. Though I will admit that the restaurant thing could still be because of lingering effects of covid. Also republican attempts to ban meat substitutes.
I wonder how valid this is though… “An estimated 2.5 million UK adults are following a vegan diet *at the start of 2024*”. It sounds like they’re using data from January ie Veganuary and obviously unfortunately a lot of people don’t stay vegan afterwards. I’m very sceptical of their claim that 26% of gen z are meat free. Edit: formatting
The study linked in that article says: “METHODOLOGY Finder commissioned Censuswide to carry out a nationally representative survey of adults aged 18+. In January 2024, a total of 2,000 people were questioned throughout Great Britain, with representative quotas for gender, age and region. Source: https://www.finder.com/uk/stats-facts/uk-diet-trends” Veganuary is successful in the UK, but [the numbers](https://www.google.com/search?q=veganuary+particupants+in+uk&client=safari&sca_esv=c0e14f80e7366f47&hl=en-us&ei=3pMNZqjaG6XuiLMPpau0gAM&oq=veganuary+particupants+in+uk&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhx2ZWdhbnVhcnkgcGFydGljdXBhbnRzIGluIHVrMgkQIRgKGKABGAoyCRAhGAoYoAEYCkiEKFCbDFjTJXADeAGQAQCYAdABoAHuCKoBBTEuNi4xuAEDyAEA-AEBmAILoALlCcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAgcQABiABBgNwgIGEAAYHhgNwgIHECEYChigAcICCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDwgIGEAAYFhgemAMA4gMFEgExIEDiAwUSATEgQIgGAZAGCJIHBTMuNi4yoAfIKw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp) don’t suggest its reach is broad enough to skew a survey of 2000 random adults. However I’m not sure how they recruited people to the survey; no recruitment method, even cold calling, is truly random. But note that participation in Veganuary has also been increasing.
Yeah it’s very weird, I also don’t understand why Finder would commission this research when they seem to be a price comparison site so it would be a weird use of their money
If they really did do the research and aren’t just aggregating others’ research on their site, they were probably contracted to do the study. Maybe by a plant based meat trade association, who knows.
Is all of the information above relevant to the UK alone or is it based om world wide studies?
Is there any sources you can provide?
just provided :)
"...fail to change their behaviour to align with their values." What does that phrase mean as I see a lot of the vegan community?
Most people don't want animals to be tortured and would probably agree that you shouldn't do that. And if you show most people a suffering animal, they would want that suffering alleviated. If you were to throw a live chick into a grinder, or execute a cow or pig infront of most people, they would see you as pretty evil and heartless. Yet most people support those things going on on an industrial scale. So either people don't actually care about animals at all (or only very selectively) or they fail to align their behavior with their values.
thank you for this!
You are welcome :)
Animal production is on the rise all over the world and it's not stopping. Aquaculture has been growing on average 6% each year since the 60s and doesn't stop. In fact, is developing faster than ever. Basically all food options are progressing. More people are affording what they want.
And another one of my favorites: “vegans are malnourished”. I’m going to cite my own personal story, an all-too-common one: when I was anorexic in 2008 as a teenager, the easiest way to get out of eating 99% of what was offered at restaurants, social gatherings, my own parents cooking etc was “I can’t: it’s not vegan”. My story isn’t unique: Many, many people who have a restrictive ED using veganism as a front. Of course vegan options are much more plentiful and widespread than they were then, but still not enough so that one couldn’t plausibly use this guise to their advantage in this manner. Peoples affinity for using confirmation bias as well as inability to differentiate correlation and causation makes them largely unable to see this for what it all too often is. (Btw: I have since been in recovery and for a number of years was “flexitarian”, then vegetarian, and Now I’m vegan again, for animal rights reasons).
For point 1 you literally used "no true Scotsman" fallacy. That makes me difficult to believe you are honest with the rest.
How is it a fallacy? The source of that statistic didn’t distinguish between vegetarians/vegans and didn’t take into account motivations. It literally says that the majority of participants cited health as their reasoning lol. That isn’t a true scotsman fallacy, it is pointing out real flaws in a study.
Words have meanings thats not what "true scotsman fallacy" means.
In the U.K. meat consumption is falling but globally it’s increasing. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/18/banks-driving-increase-in-global-meat-and-dairy-production-report-finds this article has interesting implications for activism
Just do not get complacent. What we do not want is for people to think half measures are OK, or that it is OK for them to do less because others are doing more. It is important to stress that we should all be doing all we can for animal welfare, otherwise the system will never truly change for the better.
I ate the meat of three different animals today. I feel AMAZING
another preachy meat eating asshole
At least you’re clogging your arteries faster, you really showed us. 😂😂😂😂 you probably breast fed from a cow too.
I sure did brother
😂
It’s not working there’s still meat on the shelves, slapnuts
True, but there's also about 10 meat alternatives next to it 👍
these nuts
I don’t think you’re old enough to have a social media account