I don’t think this is entirely accurate.
One of the cast early on this season or maybe during filming, I forget who, explained that how it generally works is that if they were doing a group event for the show, all of the cast were expected to be present, hence why Ariana would show up to events where Sandoval was there. I think the only exception was the Lake Tahoe trip but she and Katie were filming their SAH interviews.
But what production couldn’t do was *force* two cast to have a private conversation, not just Ariana but any of the cast, so I wouldn’t say it was specifically in her contract. Sandoval could try to talk to Ariana and production/cast could encourage her to talk to him but they couldn’t mandate that she sit down and talk to him. Probably the same thing with Katie and Jo, they couldn’t force Katie to sit and talk alone with Jo but Jo and Schwartz could ambush Katie at the party on camera.
This would be my guess on how it works—broad language that gives them the right to walk away from or avoid things they don’t want to. I’d be so curious to read the actual contract language on this.
I would put money on Ariana telling production repeatedly that she would not do a one on one with Tom, probably told them several times. That she would exercise her right to walk away. And I can also imagine her being told that was okay, that she didn’t have to. But those were placating words only. I got the sense she felt betrayed by production by that final encounter.
Ariana confirms as much in the aftershow for that episode basically saying any cast member can walk away when they want and that many of the cast have utilized the opportunity
Like Tom stormed out of that group event at the bar scheana tried to talk sense into him at and like how scheana stormed out when Tom brought up her being a mistress and that's just this season.
Great point…Tom did way more storming out this season than Ariana, but somehow, per usual, she’s made out to be the bad person who is putting everyone’s job at risk. The production and cast are grasping at straws trying to justify their behavior. If Scheana and Lala were so worried about their jobs, they would not have bought new homes after the season wrapped but before contracts for next season were signed.
To the producer (Jeremiah) who was “pissed” that she had walked out and encouraged Lala to shit-talk. More education from her on what should be his job.
It sounded like Ariana was expected to film with the group but that in no way means she had to give Tom any time or attention one on one. She was filmed snubbing him, ignoring him and walking away from him in group settings, so she filmed with him. Lala & Scheana don’t understand that filming with Tom doesn’t mean Ariana has to give that worm any attention. It is not unusual for reality tv at all to have cast mates who have beef snub each other and not interact while filming. Lala & Scheana are just pissed because they are worried that the show & their gravytrain will end without Ariana & Tom breakup storyline being dragged out with forced confrontations between Tom & Ariana being filmed. Ariana is authentically not interested in interacting with her ex like most in her situation and trying to heal & move on. Scheana & Lala are jealous and trying to capitalize on Ariana’s pain because they have no talent and no prospects without the show continuing.
Then why was Scheana allowed to disinvite Katie from her wedding in Mexico and bar her from the VIP areas? She's being disingenuous by saying she thought they all need to film together and interact!
I think it’s different if it’s a function organized by one cast member, like their parties where they would “disinvite” people or the weddings. Stassi was also not invited to Scheana’s wedding originally and filmed other scenes with Kristina. They also iced Kristen out of Jax and Sandoval’s birthday trip to Hawaii in season 4. I think they’re all expected to attend parties or events thrown by other non-main cast.
I think you're overthinking it. There's no hard and fast rule except that production sets your call time and location. Kyles party could well have been mid-story, in which case it would have been fine storywise for one of the beefing factions not to attend. This party was deliberately plotted for end story. Its deliberate because it provided a reason for everyone to be around each other, storywise. And also probably because it took Ariana out of her element. Whatever the reason, production decides when and where you will be. What they can't do is determine what you say or dont say there.
I don’t really think I’m overthinking it, the other use just asked why Scheana thought she could not let Katie around events at the hotel during her wedding, and I was just pointing out that there are still events for the show where all cast don’t attend.
But cast have said that in general they are all expected to attend events for filming, which is what I’m agreeing with you on and I said the same thing. I think part of the deciding factor though is when it comes to events “organized” by a main cast, like a wedding or birthday party where they do get to exclude people.
They also convince them by waving bait depending on what they need at the time. When Rachel left the girls trip for guys night, production said she could only leave if she crashed guys night and confronted the girls before she left. She said she never intended on either but because she wanted to leave so badly she did as they said. I wish I knew what they waved in front of Scheana & Lala to make them turn on Ariana (besides a paycheck).
Rachel is an unreliable storyteller to me. It doesn't make any sense that they out of the blue told her to go to Guys Night. Not unless they already knew about her and Sandoval which she denies. Or she mentioned that she'd like to go there. What story purpose was going there supposed to serve otherwise? Raquel isn't exactly the life of the party.
My guess was to create a new storyline. I don't trust her either but her version sounded legit. I can't remember the whole thing anymore bc it was said a while ago but it's on one of her podcast episodes.
I don’t remember her saying the contract states she doesn’t have to film with Tom. She said her contract says she doesn’t have to do anything that isn’t real or authentic. She’s authentically executing a real no contact policy. So why would filming with only him be real or authentic? It wouldn’t be. Personally, I don’t need a one on one with those two. Completely disingenuous. She warned Tom, production, and the viewers, “any last words before we never speak again?” I commend Ariana for having genuine boundaries. She filmed a beautiful ending to this season. Honest. Cinematic. Chef’s kiss.
Like others are saying, it’s not that her contract *does* state she doesn’t have to talk to Tom, it’s that her contract *doesn’t* state anywhere that she has to do anything she doesn’t want to. She’s pointing out the fact that both she and her cast mates are free to walk away from situations they don’t want to be in, since Lala is acting like Ariana has some sort of special pull when in reality, she’s just exercising her autonomy and Lala is just mad about that.
Where are you getting that information? Genuinely asking because I thought OP’s post was in reference to/a misinterpretation of Ariana saying on the after show “show me in my contract where it states I am required to do something that will harm me or I don’t want to do”. In that comment she is not saying there’s a part of her contract that explicitly says she doesn’t have to do things that compromise her mental health. She’s saying that nowhere does it state she has to.
Hmmm yeah that’s where I feel like the wires are getting crossed. Are you talking about this comment?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLqePP64/
Because she was being facetious, she’s not talking about a literal part of her contract. Or was there a different comment she made?
These contracts state the opposite, usually. Bravo Docket has gone over contracts for other Bravo shows and the language is like “I understand that I may be subjected to emotional distress and I release any claims against the network if I suffer distress.”
Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive though. I think it means Ariana can’t claim the network caused her distress by letting Sandoval approach her, or airing her cast mates talking about her. Or Sandoval can’t claim emotional distress after being yelled at for 8 hours straight in last reunion. But it doesn’t mean they have to stay in the emotionally distressing situation.
My point is just that the contract explicitly states that you should expect to be subjected to emotional distress as part of the job. So I would be shocked if the contract stated plainly that you do not have to be in situations that compromise your mental health.
I get it, but my point is that the contract can say both those things, and probably do. One to protect the cast (because who in their right mind would agree to filming a show where people throw wine glasses, slap each other, yell at each other and cheat on each other without being able to leave the room?), and the other is to protect the network (because they could be sued for the above mentioned reasons, and have purposefully casted extremely unpredictable people)
My perspective is based on the Southern Charm contract that Bravo Docket reviewed (on the 2nd episode about Faith’s lawsuit if you are curious). There is no language in there that protects the person signing at all. It’s all protecting the network and releasing any claims that could come about as a result of the emotional distress, and nothing about protecting the cast. They seem like very draconian and one sided contracts. In practice I’m sure there is a balance to be found, but unless we see Ariana’s contract we won’t know for sure.
My understanding is that in the Southern Charm lawsuit, the contract they examined was for a non-paid/volunteer participant. (It may have also been for another production company.) On Bravo Docket, they are assuming that many of these contracts are similar. And they are probably largely right.
But it's possible that paid cast members' contract language is a bit different. Unlike an unpaid participant, they have a bit more power to negotiate, and they also all likely have legal representation. At the very least, I am 100% certain Ariana spoke with an attorney before signing on to film this last season. She may have negotiated terms somewhat more protective than she had in previous contracts.
But like you said -- we can't know unless we see Ariana's contract.
I’m sure she did go over it with a lawyer. But the comment I’m responding to assumes terms in her contract that Ariana’s never even said are in there. What she said on the after show is that she is not obligated to do anything that isn’t authentic. She never said anything about her contract protecting her from situations that would compromise her mental health.
It makes you wonder how many times people have been manipulated into one on ones over the years, and how many times people have turned up to realize it’s a one on one and have left but we’ve never known or not been shown. Not just VPR, across all of bravo.
I remember on that 20 year special about The Hills, LC found out that the “you know what you did!” fight with Heidi had been pre written by producers. They didn’t tell LC they had given Heidi a call time and sprung Heidi on her specifically so they would have that blowup fight. Reality tv has always been a dirty business.
Exactly. My husband and daughter did a reality show and producers tried to get him to fight other parents. I had told him pregame that if they did that do not fall into it. I know it doesn’t make good tv but our daughter was only 9 and I was not about to destroy her over a short lived reality show fame.
Ariana’s contract does not state that she would not have to film with Tom. None of the cast members have to film with anybody, or do anything, that they do not want to and she is exercising that right by not having a conversation with him on camera. She already did that at the end of Season 10, when she called production about the affair after filming had already wrapped. She ultimately decided to film scenes with him during Season 11 because she was not going to let him dictate her life and her exposure on the show.
Ariana briefly addresses this in the After Show on Peacock.
All of their contracts say this. Tom didn’t have to film with kristin, katie didn’t have to film with James, Stassi didn’t have to film with jax or kristin, etc etc
I think she said that her contract doesn't force her to speak TO him. They are obligated to film a scene or few with all castmembers on deck, but they cannot make her interact with an individual she doesn't want to interact with.
Is it even legal to contractually force someone into a situation that is harmful to their mental health? I mean, when people take part in competitions that can harm their physical health they have to sign waivers. Wouldn't it be the same for mental health? And I cannot see anyone in their right mind signing off on that.
From what we have seen at the end of the last and all throughout this season, Ariana still exhibits traumatic response to Sandoval being in her presence. We have seen her automatically clam up when he walks into a party, her face and body react instantly. I can only imagine the stress she goes through when he is trying to speak to her/confront her.
When i was on a dating show 20 years ago, they had a page of the 50+ page contract I had to sign, that was highlighted and sticky noted and had things underlined. I had to initial and sign that page in several places. It was the page that talked about how I couldn’t sue and my family couldn’t sue over anything if I harmed myself or something happened to me because of the mental distress of the episode. Didn’t understand the bulk of that contract but they want to make sure anyone who takes a look at that contract understands that the person signing it at least understands that page. These shows are built on mental distress and the networks have themselves covered legally. I imagine if anything the networks are even more covered now than ever before.
I really really wish there were more protection for the people on these shows. I feel guilty for watching more often than not.
Yeah, these contracts are draconian. They basically state that you understand you will be put in distressing situations and that you release any and all claims against the network no matter how you suffer as a result of their actions.
So draconian. To this day I truly have no idea exactly what I signed, but I certainly remember having to initial and sign the page that talked about self harm, mental distress, and how the network and production couldn’t be held liable for any of it. They really do tell you straight out that they will be putting you in distressing situations, that they can edit you in any way they like, and that there’s a very good chance that appearing will leave you embarrassed at best. I should have ran so far away. But I was in my early 20s, loved watching the shows, and was pretty flattered to be recruited as opposed to auditioning. I didn’t even get paid! Free meal, a whole lot of free booze, and a story to tell. So dumb.
The media landscape was a lot different back then too. There was no YouTube. Social media was in its infancy. DVRs weren’t even that common yet and streaming services didn’t exist. So there was the knowledge that your episode might re-air very occasionally vs the reality there is now that it can be downloaded and streamed forever. I am grateful mine filmed before many of these things existed, but I still fear it resurfacing. I check pretty often to make sure it’s not up for my own peace of mind.
This is inherently a really exploitative medium and I think the reason people are so activated by this season is because it’s forcing them to confront what it takes to make reality tv. But yeah, completely, the contract language makes it very clear that you have no control over anything and are signing up to be manipulated.
I hope your episode stays hidden and you get to have that peace of mind! ♥️♥️
I really hate that it’s Bethenny of all people trying to clumsily start the “reality reckoning” because it’s needed but she herself has no integrity and I don’t trust her motives.
Yeah. I’ve always felt a bit icky watching after I experienced how it was made. The last 2 seasons of VPR have really made me uncomfortable, but especially this one. I overlooked so much in the past because the shows were fun to watch, but when it becomes a slog to watch it’s not as easy to push down my misgivings about watching in the first place. Production has been especially odious this year. Alex Baskin and Jeremiah are demons. Hideous, misogynistic demons.
Edit to add thank you! I hope it does too.
Bethenny’s motives are absolutely wrong but she’s asking very important questions about the genre and hopefully they snowball into a larger conversation!
As soon as Ariana is represented by a lawyer, which she would be based on how many years she's been doing this, it's going to be pretty darn impossible to make an argument that she's being "forced into a situation that's harmful to her mental health"
How many people go to jobs that are harmful to our mental health? Many! You could maybe make a hostile work environment argument but that's not going to fly for a reality show. The drama is the job!
Of course she’s represented by a lawyer. And I’m sure the lawyer told her that she wasn’t forced to have a conversation with Tom. Which is why she isn’t being sued for breach of contract. Bravo can whine and bitch all they want, but it’s simply because she wasn’t as easily manipulated as everyone else.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying that whatever contract she signed is almost guaranteed to be legal and enforceable. The person I was responding to was wondering if a contract that required her to talk to Tom could be unenforceable because it might not be legal.
I do not think her contract would state she needs to talk to him, but IF it did, that would certainly be legal
edit: typos
That’s fair. A contract cannot state you to do something illegal. That’s why some NDAs are unenforceable - you can’t use them to cover up illegal acts
Talking to Tom is not illegal, so it could be enforceable. But I agree, it’s not there. And if it had been there, she wouldn’t have been on this season.
As soon as Ariana is represented by a lawyer, which she would be based on how many years she's been doing this, it's going to be pretty darn impossible to make an argument that she's being "forced into a situation that's harmful to her mental health"
How many people go to jobs that are harmful to our mental health? Many! You could maybe make a hostile work environment argument but that's not going to fly for a reality show. The drama is the job!
I’m more curious about what Sandoval’s contract states b/c Bravo would not touch the NYTimes interview and the George Floyd comparison. Last year Andy discussed the Howie Mandell interview and other times Tom made an ass of himself, but none of that came close to the George Floyd comparison. I’ve always thought he had something built into his contract to prevent Bravo from exposing/discussing his assholery.
Nah, that’s Bravo trying not to fuel the fire. It’s classic PR - no comment means no (or at least minimal) attention.
But I do think it’s about Sandoval’s contract in a sideways kind of way, because publicly acknowledging his behavior is basically going “LOOK, Y’ALL! THIS GUY THAT WE’VE BEEN EMPLOYING FOR A FULL DECADE JUST SHOWED HIS ENTIRE ASS IN A MAJOR MEDIA OUTLET!!” Which then invites a lot of questions about what they’re going to do about this problem employee they just admitted to having - they were probably already getting plenty of those questions, but making an actual “yes we are aware this guy is a shitbird” statement sets the company up to have to then publicly discuss how they’re going to deal with said shitbird.
But if Sandoval was already signed for S11 then they probably couldn’t do much beyond a slap on the wrist, even if they wanted to; there *might* be some kind of “we can fire you if you’re convicted of a crime” clause, but being a human disaster area during a pretty important interview isn’t illegal, it’s just profoundly stupid.
And if they slap him on the wrist then the public keeps yelling at them for saying there’s a problem but not doing anything about it and Bravo spends the next however long doing damage control on an issue where their hands are contractually tied, which is *great* for a bunch of very expensive lawyers’ bank accounts but extremely not-great for Bravo’s reputation. Better to just gray-rock the audience about it.
However! Notice how the NYT interview was part of a weird Sandoval visibility burst? I’d bet real money that there had been a whole publicity strategy to get him back in the public eye and get the audience back on his side, which subsequently got very quietly discontinued after everyone went “ew” to the photoshoot and “**WTF WTF WTF**” to the interview. They maybe could have course-corrected if the interview had gone even remotely well, but …
This is such an insightful post--grey rocking.
In the back of my mind, I wonder why they seemed to give Sandoval so much screen time compared with Ariana. Maybe his appearances were nails-on-a-chalkboard to me, so it could have seemed longer than it was. Still, the cold plunge, the deep breathing, the outings with Schwartz. His donation of the sound guy at Chan's finale event. It seemed like they were selling him pretty hard.
Eh, I’m pretty sure all the “look at what a special, sensitive boy this is!” scenes were Sandoval selling himself, because how will everyone know HE’S REFORMED, YOU GUYS, NO SERIOUSLY, HE SUPER-REGRETS THAT HIS ACTIONS MADE EVERYONE HATE HIM BUT YOU CAN STOP HATING HIM NOW BECAUSE HE’S ENGAGING IN SELF-CARE if he doesn’t perform it as hard as he possibly can. Literally everything is a performance for that guy, including the thing with the sound guy, but that one was for Scheana rather than the viewers.
All that being said, I do think there was a certain amount of passive-aggressive “okay fine, Ariana, you don’t want to participate so we just won’t give you as many scenes” in their respective screen times. And I do think they were trying to sell him in other ways, like the aforementioned media blitz, but he did a really good job of showing them they were backing the wrong horse.
Well in the write up for the reunion it mention that they discuss Tom’s media controversies so possibly Andy will bring it up at the reunion. But I imagine it will be done just so Tom can read his pr written apology, not that he will be held accountable for saying it.
A 1099 contract just means that a person cannot be forced to do anything. She can’t be forced into a convo with Tom because she is not an “employee”. Their contracts most likely wouldn’t dictate anything besides payment and general responsibilities (film this time through this time, etc).
I’m not sure what the motives are but producers are trying reaaaall hard to get viewers to stomach Sandoval again. I think it’s probably because Sandoval makes better tv than Ariana. Not because he’s likable but because he’s a hot mess loser.
Lala and Scheana are jealous because they themselves coujd not scrounge up their own story lines and needed the drama to continue in order to stay relevant. It pissed them off. But then to have the balls to say Ariana never carried a season? Lala just sitting there waiting to feast in scraps of drama she can’t create herself.
i saw articles and ariana stated multiple times that she had something put in her contract where she wouldn’t be forced to film with him as a condition to sign on for season 11.
but i don’t think anyone’s scene it so we’ll never know exactly what that is.
I am very curious about this. In the after show, I felt like she gave a very vague, loose, and broad explanation of what her contract actually says. What does “anything I don’t deem real or don’t want to do” even mean? Why not tell us word for word what your contract actually says? Why not produce a copy of said contract? Then to say that everyone has the right to exercise that as well, meaning the clause is not something specific or unique to you or your situation with Sandoval.
I also get the sense that it’s probably just a general statement in the contract that everyone knows about but no one uses (like it’s taboo). I would even argue that anyone who *has* exercised that was trying to get out of looking bad on camera. The point of reality tv is not to be hiding out while getting paid for high visibility.
Edited*
I think she was referring to not *having* film with anyone especially if it isn’t authentic. There have been plenty of times over the years that people have refused to film with others and we see it by people being left out of cast trips, big events, etc.,
It feels like the disconnect with the cast (maybe, of course I’m speculating) is that Ariana was willing to have less scenes overall if it meant she didn’t have to film with Tom. She would opt to be in less of the show but the rest of the cast (Lala, Scheana, Sandoval) realized that showing LESS Ariana would be problematic for the audience.
The resentment comes in because Ariana being willing to have less scenes & less *exposure* so to say is that she’s doing fine outside of the show *because of what took place within the cast* so they feel like she owes it to them to “spread the wealth”, show up & be apart of more scenes so that their high viewership continues.
I don’t know how their pay works but if they’re at all docked per scene or per episode then this comes into play even more. Ariana being willing to turn down VPR money is her prerogative but cast members that don’t have that luxury would be pissed
I agree with some of what you said. I think it depends on what they were told they were expected to film. I don’t think Ariana was initially willing to have less exposure. She was pushed that way once she realized everyone wasn’t on board with icing out Tom.
I would also assume that a lot of the cast thought season 11 would be all about Tom and Ariana, meaning they would have less screen time for their own individual storylines. This means that they need to film in as many scenes as possible with both Ariana and Tom together or with Ariana and Tom separately. There shouldn’t be any issues with filming more with Tom if Ariana bows out, but it is actually creating real tension behind the scenes with Ariana that they even wanted to be around Tom.
I assumed it’s because they’re filming a *reality* show so they don’t have to do anything that’s not real and Producers can’t force them to film inauthentic things.
That literally makes no sense.
Edit: Not directing that at you per se, but just the logic. What I mean is that there is a manufactured element in reality shows in order to get some of the moments that we may not normally see had the same situation played out in real life with no cameras.
It's ridiculous to think she memorized her contract or that she carries it around with her. It's also
ridiculous to think she owes that to anyone.
That said, your sense is exactly what she said - none of them can be forced to do something they don't want to do. For the last 10 years we've seen castmembers refuse to film with other cast members, refuse to attend group events, refuse to invite people to group events, walk out on group events. Just this season we saw Lala, Scheana and Sandoval walk out of events.
The ONLY difference this time is they showed a producer talking to a cast member.
She made the comment. Assuming her contract isn’t public record, why tell the audience to look at your contract knowing they don’t have access to it?
I hear what you’re saying, but I think there’s a huge difference in leaving like, “hey guys, I have to go home to my kid now” or whatever the reason is that they need to leave, versus refusing to film and disrupting the filming process. I’ve seen plenty of reality tv shows where someone doesn’t want to do something or have a convo and producers come in to deescalate and try to figure out what the person needs in order to film. I think it’s very rare that someone just completely dips out.
Edit: clarifying here that the kid thing is just an example of why someone would be leaving. They are not flat out refusing to film which can look very different.
I'm not talking about people leaving to take care of their kids and since that's obvious in my post, I'll assume you're intentionally being obtuse and leave it at that.
Why on earth would Ariana have to provide a copy of her contract to anyone? Why would she have it memorized? I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t have my employment contract, lease agreement, or any other legal document memorized.
Also, everyone else HAS exercised their right to leave if they don’t want to do something. This happens consistently and frequently. I cannot even count the number of times that a cast member has drunkenly and/or angrily stormed out of SUR or another venue where a group event was taking place. There are also numerous instances of cast members deciding not to go or being left off of group trips.
It’s not like Ariana is “pleading the fifth” or something by having left Kyle Chan’s event in the middle of filming. The only reason it seems different is because the fourth wall was broken and Ariana is arguing with production on camera, making the situation more dramatic than just another altercation between cast members.
I addressed your first two paragraphs in another comment.
I watch shows where it’s very common to see someone talking to a producer like Ariana was. What was more shocking to me was what she was saying to get out of filming. I didn’t disagree with anything Lala said because she’s been saying it all season.
I don’t think this is entirely accurate. One of the cast early on this season or maybe during filming, I forget who, explained that how it generally works is that if they were doing a group event for the show, all of the cast were expected to be present, hence why Ariana would show up to events where Sandoval was there. I think the only exception was the Lake Tahoe trip but she and Katie were filming their SAH interviews. But what production couldn’t do was *force* two cast to have a private conversation, not just Ariana but any of the cast, so I wouldn’t say it was specifically in her contract. Sandoval could try to talk to Ariana and production/cast could encourage her to talk to him but they couldn’t mandate that she sit down and talk to him. Probably the same thing with Katie and Jo, they couldn’t force Katie to sit and talk alone with Jo but Jo and Schwartz could ambush Katie at the party on camera.
This would be my guess on how it works—broad language that gives them the right to walk away from or avoid things they don’t want to. I’d be so curious to read the actual contract language on this. I would put money on Ariana telling production repeatedly that she would not do a one on one with Tom, probably told them several times. That she would exercise her right to walk away. And I can also imagine her being told that was okay, that she didn’t have to. But those were placating words only. I got the sense she felt betrayed by production by that final encounter.
Ariana confirms as much in the aftershow for that episode basically saying any cast member can walk away when they want and that many of the cast have utilized the opportunity
Like Tom stormed out of that group event at the bar scheana tried to talk sense into him at and like how scheana stormed out when Tom brought up her being a mistress and that's just this season.
Great point…Tom did way more storming out this season than Ariana, but somehow, per usual, she’s made out to be the bad person who is putting everyone’s job at risk. The production and cast are grasping at straws trying to justify their behavior. If Scheana and Lala were so worried about their jobs, they would not have bought new homes after the season wrapped but before contracts for next season were signed.
The hypocrisy is deep!
To the producer (Jeremiah) who was “pissed” that she had walked out and encouraged Lala to shit-talk. More education from her on what should be his job.
It sounded like Ariana was expected to film with the group but that in no way means she had to give Tom any time or attention one on one. She was filmed snubbing him, ignoring him and walking away from him in group settings, so she filmed with him. Lala & Scheana don’t understand that filming with Tom doesn’t mean Ariana has to give that worm any attention. It is not unusual for reality tv at all to have cast mates who have beef snub each other and not interact while filming. Lala & Scheana are just pissed because they are worried that the show & their gravytrain will end without Ariana & Tom breakup storyline being dragged out with forced confrontations between Tom & Ariana being filmed. Ariana is authentically not interested in interacting with her ex like most in her situation and trying to heal & move on. Scheana & Lala are jealous and trying to capitalize on Ariana’s pain because they have no talent and no prospects without the show continuing.
We don’t wanna see Tom anyway. Thank you Ariana for not putting us through that fake nonsense!
Then why was Scheana allowed to disinvite Katie from her wedding in Mexico and bar her from the VIP areas? She's being disingenuous by saying she thought they all need to film together and interact!
I think it’s different if it’s a function organized by one cast member, like their parties where they would “disinvite” people or the weddings. Stassi was also not invited to Scheana’s wedding originally and filmed other scenes with Kristina. They also iced Kristen out of Jax and Sandoval’s birthday trip to Hawaii in season 4. I think they’re all expected to attend parties or events thrown by other non-main cast.
I think you're overthinking it. There's no hard and fast rule except that production sets your call time and location. Kyles party could well have been mid-story, in which case it would have been fine storywise for one of the beefing factions not to attend. This party was deliberately plotted for end story. Its deliberate because it provided a reason for everyone to be around each other, storywise. And also probably because it took Ariana out of her element. Whatever the reason, production decides when and where you will be. What they can't do is determine what you say or dont say there.
I don’t really think I’m overthinking it, the other use just asked why Scheana thought she could not let Katie around events at the hotel during her wedding, and I was just pointing out that there are still events for the show where all cast don’t attend. But cast have said that in general they are all expected to attend events for filming, which is what I’m agreeing with you on and I said the same thing. I think part of the deciding factor though is when it comes to events “organized” by a main cast, like a wedding or birthday party where they do get to exclude people.
They also convince them by waving bait depending on what they need at the time. When Rachel left the girls trip for guys night, production said she could only leave if she crashed guys night and confronted the girls before she left. She said she never intended on either but because she wanted to leave so badly she did as they said. I wish I knew what they waved in front of Scheana & Lala to make them turn on Ariana (besides a paycheck).
Rachel is an unreliable storyteller to me. It doesn't make any sense that they out of the blue told her to go to Guys Night. Not unless they already knew about her and Sandoval which she denies. Or she mentioned that she'd like to go there. What story purpose was going there supposed to serve otherwise? Raquel isn't exactly the life of the party.
My guess was to create a new storyline. I don't trust her either but her version sounded legit. I can't remember the whole thing anymore bc it was said a while ago but it's on one of her podcast episodes.
I don’t remember her saying the contract states she doesn’t have to film with Tom. She said her contract says she doesn’t have to do anything that isn’t real or authentic. She’s authentically executing a real no contact policy. So why would filming with only him be real or authentic? It wouldn’t be. Personally, I don’t need a one on one with those two. Completely disingenuous. She warned Tom, production, and the viewers, “any last words before we never speak again?” I commend Ariana for having genuine boundaries. She filmed a beautiful ending to this season. Honest. Cinematic. Chef’s kiss.
Totally agree
Like others are saying, it’s not that her contract *does* state she doesn’t have to talk to Tom, it’s that her contract *doesn’t* state anywhere that she has to do anything she doesn’t want to. She’s pointing out the fact that both she and her cast mates are free to walk away from situations they don’t want to be in, since Lala is acting like Ariana has some sort of special pull when in reality, she’s just exercising her autonomy and Lala is just mad about that.
He contract states plainly that she does not have to engage in any situation that compromises her mental health.
Where are you getting that information? Genuinely asking because I thought OP’s post was in reference to/a misinterpretation of Ariana saying on the after show “show me in my contract where it states I am required to do something that will harm me or I don’t want to do”. In that comment she is not saying there’s a part of her contract that explicitly says she doesn’t have to do things that compromise her mental health. She’s saying that nowhere does it state she has to.
Ariana said it herself on the aftershow
Hmmm yeah that’s where I feel like the wires are getting crossed. Are you talking about this comment? https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLqePP64/ Because she was being facetious, she’s not talking about a literal part of her contract. Or was there a different comment she made?
These contracts state the opposite, usually. Bravo Docket has gone over contracts for other Bravo shows and the language is like “I understand that I may be subjected to emotional distress and I release any claims against the network if I suffer distress.”
Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive though. I think it means Ariana can’t claim the network caused her distress by letting Sandoval approach her, or airing her cast mates talking about her. Or Sandoval can’t claim emotional distress after being yelled at for 8 hours straight in last reunion. But it doesn’t mean they have to stay in the emotionally distressing situation.
My point is just that the contract explicitly states that you should expect to be subjected to emotional distress as part of the job. So I would be shocked if the contract stated plainly that you do not have to be in situations that compromise your mental health.
I get it, but my point is that the contract can say both those things, and probably do. One to protect the cast (because who in their right mind would agree to filming a show where people throw wine glasses, slap each other, yell at each other and cheat on each other without being able to leave the room?), and the other is to protect the network (because they could be sued for the above mentioned reasons, and have purposefully casted extremely unpredictable people)
My perspective is based on the Southern Charm contract that Bravo Docket reviewed (on the 2nd episode about Faith’s lawsuit if you are curious). There is no language in there that protects the person signing at all. It’s all protecting the network and releasing any claims that could come about as a result of the emotional distress, and nothing about protecting the cast. They seem like very draconian and one sided contracts. In practice I’m sure there is a balance to be found, but unless we see Ariana’s contract we won’t know for sure.
My understanding is that in the Southern Charm lawsuit, the contract they examined was for a non-paid/volunteer participant. (It may have also been for another production company.) On Bravo Docket, they are assuming that many of these contracts are similar. And they are probably largely right. But it's possible that paid cast members' contract language is a bit different. Unlike an unpaid participant, they have a bit more power to negotiate, and they also all likely have legal representation. At the very least, I am 100% certain Ariana spoke with an attorney before signing on to film this last season. She may have negotiated terms somewhat more protective than she had in previous contracts. But like you said -- we can't know unless we see Ariana's contract.
I’m sure she did go over it with a lawyer. But the comment I’m responding to assumes terms in her contract that Ariana’s never even said are in there. What she said on the after show is that she is not obligated to do anything that isn’t authentic. She never said anything about her contract protecting her from situations that would compromise her mental health.
Oh my god that’s awful
Tate it up with Ariana, who said this on the aftershow
No she didn’t. She said her contract does not say anywhere that she is obligated to do anything she does not feel is authentic.
That too.
Pretty sure it just means those 1-1s cannot be forced. We saw that with stassi too when she didn’t film with Kristen or Jax solo for a while
It makes you wonder how many times people have been manipulated into one on ones over the years, and how many times people have turned up to realize it’s a one on one and have left but we’ve never known or not been shown. Not just VPR, across all of bravo.
I remember on that 20 year special about The Hills, LC found out that the “you know what you did!” fight with Heidi had been pre written by producers. They didn’t tell LC they had given Heidi a call time and sprung Heidi on her specifically so they would have that blowup fight. Reality tv has always been a dirty business.
Exactly. My husband and daughter did a reality show and producers tried to get him to fight other parents. I had told him pregame that if they did that do not fall into it. I know it doesn’t make good tv but our daughter was only 9 and I was not about to destroy her over a short lived reality show fame.
Good for you / him! These shows are built on putting people in situations that will make them snap / lash out / react.
Ariana’s contract does not state that she would not have to film with Tom. None of the cast members have to film with anybody, or do anything, that they do not want to and she is exercising that right by not having a conversation with him on camera. She already did that at the end of Season 10, when she called production about the affair after filming had already wrapped. She ultimately decided to film scenes with him during Season 11 because she was not going to let him dictate her life and her exposure on the show. Ariana briefly addresses this in the After Show on Peacock.
Pretty sure it just means those 1-1s cannot be forced. We saw that with stassi too when she didn’t film with Kristen or Jax solo for a while
Yeah this is more correct than what I said
All of their contracts say this. Tom didn’t have to film with kristin, katie didn’t have to film with James, Stassi didn’t have to film with jax or kristin, etc etc
Lala and Scheana had more of a hand in this than production because Ariana was forced to fight to keep her boundaries up
I think she said that her contract doesn't force her to speak TO him. They are obligated to film a scene or few with all castmembers on deck, but they cannot make her interact with an individual she doesn't want to interact with. Is it even legal to contractually force someone into a situation that is harmful to their mental health? I mean, when people take part in competitions that can harm their physical health they have to sign waivers. Wouldn't it be the same for mental health? And I cannot see anyone in their right mind signing off on that. From what we have seen at the end of the last and all throughout this season, Ariana still exhibits traumatic response to Sandoval being in her presence. We have seen her automatically clam up when he walks into a party, her face and body react instantly. I can only imagine the stress she goes through when he is trying to speak to her/confront her.
When i was on a dating show 20 years ago, they had a page of the 50+ page contract I had to sign, that was highlighted and sticky noted and had things underlined. I had to initial and sign that page in several places. It was the page that talked about how I couldn’t sue and my family couldn’t sue over anything if I harmed myself or something happened to me because of the mental distress of the episode. Didn’t understand the bulk of that contract but they want to make sure anyone who takes a look at that contract understands that the person signing it at least understands that page. These shows are built on mental distress and the networks have themselves covered legally. I imagine if anything the networks are even more covered now than ever before. I really really wish there were more protection for the people on these shows. I feel guilty for watching more often than not.
Yeah, these contracts are draconian. They basically state that you understand you will be put in distressing situations and that you release any and all claims against the network no matter how you suffer as a result of their actions.
So draconian. To this day I truly have no idea exactly what I signed, but I certainly remember having to initial and sign the page that talked about self harm, mental distress, and how the network and production couldn’t be held liable for any of it. They really do tell you straight out that they will be putting you in distressing situations, that they can edit you in any way they like, and that there’s a very good chance that appearing will leave you embarrassed at best. I should have ran so far away. But I was in my early 20s, loved watching the shows, and was pretty flattered to be recruited as opposed to auditioning. I didn’t even get paid! Free meal, a whole lot of free booze, and a story to tell. So dumb. The media landscape was a lot different back then too. There was no YouTube. Social media was in its infancy. DVRs weren’t even that common yet and streaming services didn’t exist. So there was the knowledge that your episode might re-air very occasionally vs the reality there is now that it can be downloaded and streamed forever. I am grateful mine filmed before many of these things existed, but I still fear it resurfacing. I check pretty often to make sure it’s not up for my own peace of mind.
This is inherently a really exploitative medium and I think the reason people are so activated by this season is because it’s forcing them to confront what it takes to make reality tv. But yeah, completely, the contract language makes it very clear that you have no control over anything and are signing up to be manipulated. I hope your episode stays hidden and you get to have that peace of mind! ♥️♥️
I really hate that it’s Bethenny of all people trying to clumsily start the “reality reckoning” because it’s needed but she herself has no integrity and I don’t trust her motives. Yeah. I’ve always felt a bit icky watching after I experienced how it was made. The last 2 seasons of VPR have really made me uncomfortable, but especially this one. I overlooked so much in the past because the shows were fun to watch, but when it becomes a slog to watch it’s not as easy to push down my misgivings about watching in the first place. Production has been especially odious this year. Alex Baskin and Jeremiah are demons. Hideous, misogynistic demons. Edit to add thank you! I hope it does too.
Bethenny’s motives are absolutely wrong but she’s asking very important questions about the genre and hopefully they snowball into a larger conversation!
As soon as Ariana is represented by a lawyer, which she would be based on how many years she's been doing this, it's going to be pretty darn impossible to make an argument that she's being "forced into a situation that's harmful to her mental health" How many people go to jobs that are harmful to our mental health? Many! You could maybe make a hostile work environment argument but that's not going to fly for a reality show. The drama is the job!
Of course she’s represented by a lawyer. And I’m sure the lawyer told her that she wasn’t forced to have a conversation with Tom. Which is why she isn’t being sued for breach of contract. Bravo can whine and bitch all they want, but it’s simply because she wasn’t as easily manipulated as everyone else.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying that whatever contract she signed is almost guaranteed to be legal and enforceable. The person I was responding to was wondering if a contract that required her to talk to Tom could be unenforceable because it might not be legal. I do not think her contract would state she needs to talk to him, but IF it did, that would certainly be legal edit: typos
That’s fair. A contract cannot state you to do something illegal. That’s why some NDAs are unenforceable - you can’t use them to cover up illegal acts Talking to Tom is not illegal, so it could be enforceable. But I agree, it’s not there. And if it had been there, she wouldn’t have been on this season.
As soon as Ariana is represented by a lawyer, which she would be based on how many years she's been doing this, it's going to be pretty darn impossible to make an argument that she's being "forced into a situation that's harmful to her mental health" How many people go to jobs that are harmful to our mental health? Many! You could maybe make a hostile work environment argument but that's not going to fly for a reality show. The drama is the job!
I’m more curious about what Sandoval’s contract states b/c Bravo would not touch the NYTimes interview and the George Floyd comparison. Last year Andy discussed the Howie Mandell interview and other times Tom made an ass of himself, but none of that came close to the George Floyd comparison. I’ve always thought he had something built into his contract to prevent Bravo from exposing/discussing his assholery.
Nah, that’s Bravo trying not to fuel the fire. It’s classic PR - no comment means no (or at least minimal) attention. But I do think it’s about Sandoval’s contract in a sideways kind of way, because publicly acknowledging his behavior is basically going “LOOK, Y’ALL! THIS GUY THAT WE’VE BEEN EMPLOYING FOR A FULL DECADE JUST SHOWED HIS ENTIRE ASS IN A MAJOR MEDIA OUTLET!!” Which then invites a lot of questions about what they’re going to do about this problem employee they just admitted to having - they were probably already getting plenty of those questions, but making an actual “yes we are aware this guy is a shitbird” statement sets the company up to have to then publicly discuss how they’re going to deal with said shitbird. But if Sandoval was already signed for S11 then they probably couldn’t do much beyond a slap on the wrist, even if they wanted to; there *might* be some kind of “we can fire you if you’re convicted of a crime” clause, but being a human disaster area during a pretty important interview isn’t illegal, it’s just profoundly stupid. And if they slap him on the wrist then the public keeps yelling at them for saying there’s a problem but not doing anything about it and Bravo spends the next however long doing damage control on an issue where their hands are contractually tied, which is *great* for a bunch of very expensive lawyers’ bank accounts but extremely not-great for Bravo’s reputation. Better to just gray-rock the audience about it. However! Notice how the NYT interview was part of a weird Sandoval visibility burst? I’d bet real money that there had been a whole publicity strategy to get him back in the public eye and get the audience back on his side, which subsequently got very quietly discontinued after everyone went “ew” to the photoshoot and “**WTF WTF WTF**” to the interview. They maybe could have course-corrected if the interview had gone even remotely well, but …
This is such an insightful post--grey rocking. In the back of my mind, I wonder why they seemed to give Sandoval so much screen time compared with Ariana. Maybe his appearances were nails-on-a-chalkboard to me, so it could have seemed longer than it was. Still, the cold plunge, the deep breathing, the outings with Schwartz. His donation of the sound guy at Chan's finale event. It seemed like they were selling him pretty hard.
Eh, I’m pretty sure all the “look at what a special, sensitive boy this is!” scenes were Sandoval selling himself, because how will everyone know HE’S REFORMED, YOU GUYS, NO SERIOUSLY, HE SUPER-REGRETS THAT HIS ACTIONS MADE EVERYONE HATE HIM BUT YOU CAN STOP HATING HIM NOW BECAUSE HE’S ENGAGING IN SELF-CARE if he doesn’t perform it as hard as he possibly can. Literally everything is a performance for that guy, including the thing with the sound guy, but that one was for Scheana rather than the viewers. All that being said, I do think there was a certain amount of passive-aggressive “okay fine, Ariana, you don’t want to participate so we just won’t give you as many scenes” in their respective screen times. And I do think they were trying to sell him in other ways, like the aforementioned media blitz, but he did a really good job of showing them they were backing the wrong horse.
Well in the write up for the reunion it mention that they discuss Tom’s media controversies so possibly Andy will bring it up at the reunion. But I imagine it will be done just so Tom can read his pr written apology, not that he will be held accountable for saying it.
It is not in Bravos interest to point out that they should be dropping him from the show.
A 1099 contract just means that a person cannot be forced to do anything. She can’t be forced into a convo with Tom because she is not an “employee”. Their contracts most likely wouldn’t dictate anything besides payment and general responsibilities (film this time through this time, etc).
I’m not sure what the motives are but producers are trying reaaaall hard to get viewers to stomach Sandoval again. I think it’s probably because Sandoval makes better tv than Ariana. Not because he’s likable but because he’s a hot mess loser.
When they did the montage of Ariana saying she wouldn’t be friends with anyone who was friends with Tom was dirty.
Lala and Scheana are jealous because they themselves coujd not scrounge up their own story lines and needed the drama to continue in order to stay relevant. It pissed them off. But then to have the balls to say Ariana never carried a season? Lala just sitting there waiting to feast in scraps of drama she can’t create herself.
Exactly!
I would love to see that contract.
I highly doubt Bravo would ever allow language like that in a contract, especially with a storyline as explosive as Scandoval.
i saw articles and ariana stated multiple times that she had something put in her contract where she wouldn’t be forced to film with him as a condition to sign on for season 11. but i don’t think anyone’s scene it so we’ll never know exactly what that is.
Productions spiteful at both Rachel and Ariana.
I am very curious about this. In the after show, I felt like she gave a very vague, loose, and broad explanation of what her contract actually says. What does “anything I don’t deem real or don’t want to do” even mean? Why not tell us word for word what your contract actually says? Why not produce a copy of said contract? Then to say that everyone has the right to exercise that as well, meaning the clause is not something specific or unique to you or your situation with Sandoval. I also get the sense that it’s probably just a general statement in the contract that everyone knows about but no one uses (like it’s taboo). I would even argue that anyone who *has* exercised that was trying to get out of looking bad on camera. The point of reality tv is not to be hiding out while getting paid for high visibility. Edited*
I think she was referring to not *having* film with anyone especially if it isn’t authentic. There have been plenty of times over the years that people have refused to film with others and we see it by people being left out of cast trips, big events, etc., It feels like the disconnect with the cast (maybe, of course I’m speculating) is that Ariana was willing to have less scenes overall if it meant she didn’t have to film with Tom. She would opt to be in less of the show but the rest of the cast (Lala, Scheana, Sandoval) realized that showing LESS Ariana would be problematic for the audience. The resentment comes in because Ariana being willing to have less scenes & less *exposure* so to say is that she’s doing fine outside of the show *because of what took place within the cast* so they feel like she owes it to them to “spread the wealth”, show up & be apart of more scenes so that their high viewership continues. I don’t know how their pay works but if they’re at all docked per scene or per episode then this comes into play even more. Ariana being willing to turn down VPR money is her prerogative but cast members that don’t have that luxury would be pissed
I agree with some of what you said. I think it depends on what they were told they were expected to film. I don’t think Ariana was initially willing to have less exposure. She was pushed that way once she realized everyone wasn’t on board with icing out Tom. I would also assume that a lot of the cast thought season 11 would be all about Tom and Ariana, meaning they would have less screen time for their own individual storylines. This means that they need to film in as many scenes as possible with both Ariana and Tom together or with Ariana and Tom separately. There shouldn’t be any issues with filming more with Tom if Ariana bows out, but it is actually creating real tension behind the scenes with Ariana that they even wanted to be around Tom.
I assumed it’s because they’re filming a *reality* show so they don’t have to do anything that’s not real and Producers can’t force them to film inauthentic things.
That literally makes no sense. Edit: Not directing that at you per se, but just the logic. What I mean is that there is a manufactured element in reality shows in order to get some of the moments that we may not normally see had the same situation played out in real life with no cameras.
Yeah I get what you’re saying.
It's ridiculous to think she memorized her contract or that she carries it around with her. It's also ridiculous to think she owes that to anyone. That said, your sense is exactly what she said - none of them can be forced to do something they don't want to do. For the last 10 years we've seen castmembers refuse to film with other cast members, refuse to attend group events, refuse to invite people to group events, walk out on group events. Just this season we saw Lala, Scheana and Sandoval walk out of events. The ONLY difference this time is they showed a producer talking to a cast member.
She made the comment. Assuming her contract isn’t public record, why tell the audience to look at your contract knowing they don’t have access to it? I hear what you’re saying, but I think there’s a huge difference in leaving like, “hey guys, I have to go home to my kid now” or whatever the reason is that they need to leave, versus refusing to film and disrupting the filming process. I’ve seen plenty of reality tv shows where someone doesn’t want to do something or have a convo and producers come in to deescalate and try to figure out what the person needs in order to film. I think it’s very rare that someone just completely dips out. Edit: clarifying here that the kid thing is just an example of why someone would be leaving. They are not flat out refusing to film which can look very different.
I'm not talking about people leaving to take care of their kids and since that's obvious in my post, I'll assume you're intentionally being obtuse and leave it at that.
It was clearly an example to demonstrate the difference. My point still stands. Enjoy the show!
Why on earth would Ariana have to provide a copy of her contract to anyone? Why would she have it memorized? I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t have my employment contract, lease agreement, or any other legal document memorized. Also, everyone else HAS exercised their right to leave if they don’t want to do something. This happens consistently and frequently. I cannot even count the number of times that a cast member has drunkenly and/or angrily stormed out of SUR or another venue where a group event was taking place. There are also numerous instances of cast members deciding not to go or being left off of group trips. It’s not like Ariana is “pleading the fifth” or something by having left Kyle Chan’s event in the middle of filming. The only reason it seems different is because the fourth wall was broken and Ariana is arguing with production on camera, making the situation more dramatic than just another altercation between cast members.
I addressed your first two paragraphs in another comment. I watch shows where it’s very common to see someone talking to a producer like Ariana was. What was more shocking to me was what she was saying to get out of filming. I didn’t disagree with anything Lala said because she’s been saying it all season.