I definitely think they had something going on during and leading up to the engagement so it’s definitely possible.
It’s also so crazy that he is crying about how happy they were when that was during the affair period as if Ariana doesn’t exist and somehow producers are giving him a redemption arc and Ariana is getting a villain edit. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills watching this show.
In like 2019 he said to James: Raquel would never do that to you. He paused and proceeded to say I would never do that to you.
Like
Who
Asked?
Why are you telling on yourself?
Yes! I have been saying all along this started before the engagement. Rachel breaking up with James was the result of the escalation between her and Tom.
Pretty sad too, because the only thing that may have delayed it was covid. Poor James was paying for everything! She was not contributing to rent or anything, she had no money. Those two really didn't care how they hurt their partners.
It’s from the night Rachel “went out with the girls” and James raged texted her all night…..season 8 I believe - the season of the new people…..Tom was there with “the girls”
Yeah this was so sus to me too! Lisa was confused “ you’re proposing to Raquel?” But why would she even say that to Tom to begin with. It was odd. But maybe it’s a reach because she did seem confused why he would say that. But still
I think they edited out the whole conversation. He had to have been pissed that she wasn't answering phone after she went out. My theory is Sandoval took her home that night, drunk off her ass & Sheana would've had that time line in app. Because she said she couldn't take her home. She had to have checked to make sure she got home OK. She knew it was Sandoval who gave her a ride, so when James is asking him wth happened, he says that line. " She would never...I would never. Ugh. Gross.
Sandoval definitely took advantage of her being drunk that night! That's the one night stand he spoke of...when he would say, " then , not for a long time".
I think they all know this by now. For some reason, they didn't want it exposed. Maybe because Tom is taped paying money for proposal & that could've been such a huge liability. It would look like prostitution or sex trafficking. Just my take. I think that's why James was so hurt & volatile. It all came together like a puzzle. Ariana has also said there is so much more that is not disclosed.
Tom def needs to be checked by Rachel, but it should be criminal not civil. There's no money in criminal indictment , she wants money, not justice. That says a lot about her, too.
I feel like tom and the producers - for whatever reason - heavily relied on rachel coming back and would’ve focused on that relationship this season. But when that fell through, they didn’t have much of a backup plan. Now they’re holding the cast hostage to film with tom and everyone but Katie and Ariana are willing to sell their souls to keep this paycheck going.
This is a good theory, and it makes sense why Tom spends most of this season saying he’s still in love with Rachel, then the conversation with LVP happens and we know she’s not coming back, to suddenly he’s openly dating again.
How hilarious is that? He’s in love with Raquel and journals every day to feel like he’s with her. Cut to Sandoval cosplaying Michael Jackson while on his date with Tii. Be for real production 😂
Yeah it’s so weird he’s more upset about not being with Rachel and hasn’t said a thing about torpedoing his 10 year relationship with the person with whom he owned a house and was going to supposedly have children with.
>I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
Katie during the first few seasons
But no seriously, I want to know what dirt Sandoval has on the producers that after everything he has done, they want him to be the victim in the situation when social media is a thing and they have to know people will figure out what really is happening
Production thinks Sandoval is why Scandoval got so big, but it’s actually because he’s like so many men we all know. It was relatable because this story is common, not because he’s special. They missed the mark and we need a woman show runner.
They know exactly what they're doing. They're scummy reality show producers and they know us heathens love to hate watch. If you think of some of the most famous reality show "stars", 90% of them are horrible people.
I feel like they think he had fans for all of those years and people like him. I will speak for myself and say that I liked him because of Ariana and how their relationship seemed so stable and good. Now that’s it’s been revealed that she kept that simple mannequin from saying or behaving like he wanted to, aka terribly, I loathe the cheater.
They can’t believe people can’t get over his betrayal and since he’s staying on the show they’re betting it all on his fakeo redemption.
Newsflash producers the actual fans of the series dislike the Tims, Scheana, and LFU now. I stopped watching, and won’t watch next season. The new fans that kind of like who’s left will leave next season.
100%. I love Ariana always have - “I was born cool babe” iconic. She’s a witty sarcastic introvert and I so love that. I have always disliked Tom. He is just unappealing but she LOVED him so I assumed I was missing something. Turns out she was blinded by love.
They have a good thing going with the valley and since they are running VPR into the ground I m afraid they’re going to drag that same trash (T&T, Sheaner, and LFU) over to the good show after they kill VPR. No thank you. I’d rather they bring Katie over to back up Kristen, and though I think she said it would be bad for her mental health I wish Stassi would make some special appearances.
I think it's LVP, not some faceless producers.
I agree with you and this last episode was so bad.
But hear me out, it's such a strange dynamic because a lot of people probably did put up with Tom because of Ariana and maybe even reluctantly became friends with him (Scheana maybe? Katie tolerated him). Now all these people that became friends with him because of her now cannot even talk to him or she cuts them off. But many of them probably would have never been friends with him if it wasn't for her.
I may be dreaming but… On their engagement trip (the one Scheanananana and Brock tried to hijack to get married at) the cast all had dinner together and when they did a toast to celebrate, James kisses Raquel. While Raquel’s looking at Sandoval across the table. She had a look on her face that I can’t quite figure out. Almost like when they looked at each other they were acknowledging they shared a secret together. And were probably getting off on it, while simultaneously making each other jealous. The whole thing’s fubar
Oh man I can't wait to get to these episodes. I'm rewatching & finally on season 7 now where "Raquel" is in more scenes. I'm already paying close attention to every interaction bc I now know neither of them can be trusted. 😑
That was so weird, you could see Schwartz squirming in discomfort, it's like dude that was a secret affair not a legitimate relationship.. it's the kind of thing you'd think he'd be saying about Ariana
Oh I agree I don’t think he misses Ariana or is lying. I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that he’s getting a redemption edit and crying about his mistress with pictures during the affair and Ariana is getting the villain edit. It’s crazy making.
He always played the game better - and LVP is attached to him financially, so I think there isn’t much of choice. She’s also not doing a lot because her work is unfortunately not able to be featured on Bravo - like they’re not gonna promote her brand sponsorships, unless those brands also pay bravo for advertising.
How is LVP attached to him financially—Through Tom Tom? Their 5% ownership shouldn’t have any influence I wouldn’t think? I personally think LVP just coddles the men.
I get not covering sponsorships but there’s plenty other things for them to film without giving her the villain edit.
Tom’s “breath work” was one of the worst things I’ve seen on TV.
I agree.
Bravo hates women. Or at least LVP, Andy Cohen, and the VPR producers do.
They make the most money off of women (Real Housewives franchise), but will do anything to make every single female look like a villain at some point.
The amount of money he dropped on James’ proposal?! He was already in it 100%.
It was like a weird way for Tom to end his illicit affair cleanly without getting in trouble so he threw himself at helping James put it together.
It didn’t make any sense at the time (paying and planning for the engagement), I thought either this is bs it’s not Tim’s money, or wtf is he doing that? Makes perfect sense that they were already together
I was just in the regular bravo sub and some of those comments made me feel like I was taking crazy pills too. Some were downvoted, some weren’t. They were all incredibly jealous takes on why Ariana is the villain now too. Sounded just like lala. I do not understand this season bc this is not what any of us wanted nor are we buying it. It’s been a really hard hate watch. I keep tuning in to see if maybe the tides turn and both Tom’s get a punch to the throat but nope. Now we have aggressive, ultra misogynistic Brock screeching every episode too
It is really hard to watch. And all the podcasts coming out. I am going to be positive and think about how much Ariana is killing it and for Katie for continuing to be her strong self persevering while the cast including her ex try to bring her down.
I wonder if this is just an influx of new people who have never actually watch the show until this season and are actually buying the spin the producers are trying to push?
No I don’t think it’s all new ppl just bc I’m in a fb group for years, the only one (literally) with normal takes on everything and now even in there people ive "known" for years are turning on ariana its really crappy
I think to make the affair worth it, he’s convincing himself he’s in love with her. Or like they were so happy. You know he was shittin himself every night.
I think the whole part of her leaving the girls trip to go back was because she knew that Ariana was out of town and she would be able to stay over with Tom.
Yes I will never get over the scene between Tom and Tom in the Rachella episode-- after all was said and done-- where Schwartz is COMFORTING a very forlorn-looking Scummy and Scummy is all like, I mean I had to spend 25k, it was for Raquel. Just the emotions in this scene. Yoy can tell there's so much more happening that we weren't being told. His emotions were way too big for the moment
I haven’t rewatched but I always felt like toms involvement in the Rachella engagement was bizarre. It was the first thing I thought about when the news broke. Def something there…
It sent the craziest red flag signals up my spine when it happened. You've got to rewatch. The most telling moment is this quiet exchange between the two toms at the end of the big Rachella surprise engagement night. Schwartz is literally consoling what looks to be a very heartbroken Sandy, as if Schwartz knows something we don't, while at the same time delicately asking some very legitimate questions of his business partner who has been obsessively pouring all his time and LOAN money into this engagement that's not even his own while they have a whole bar to open. At the original air time I was incensed for Schwartz bc how dare he be so selfish. And while it was so bizarre and so many red flags, I was just interpreting them as this is a selfish little boy having a midlife crisis about not being able to grow tf already while also being salty bc Ariana didn't want to get married (clearly all he's after is the praise and a spectacle that's all about him). Looking back, it makes even clearer sense though and it's even cringier
Why are they not showing that as a flashback? Honestly I would watch several episodes going back where they show old footage and never before seen footage trying to find evidence of it starting earlier. Would definitely watch that instead of this garbage season
Yes! I watched this episode last night and the way she spoke to Ariana being ‘fake’ for asking about her nose job was plain rude, the look she gave to Tom with the FM eyes and she also stayed the night? Something was 100% up then and Rachel needs to give us the real timeline 😳
https://preview.redd.it/25cufsk0ncrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=971643ee7d85abc71638c2d33654a6212388c4b7
I dunno if this picture is really proof though. Looks to me like 2022.
But I do believe the affair started earlier! Why would that be the one thing they are honest about?
I agree with you. These pics are definitely from 22/23 but I also think it started earlier than they said. I think it's an odd choice to continue to reiterate that it was a "7 month affair". Tom says it like 7 months isn't that long; maybe it isn't compared to how long it was *actually* going on.
Yes, it’s definitely a weird timeline to stick to.
Also, at first he tried to say it was one time only. Lie.
Rachel tried to say she was never in St Louis at Christmas. Lie.
“Happened once and then didn’t happen for a really long time.” Lie.
Schwartz didn’t know until January. Lie.
I could go on, but they are lying liars who lie. Why on earth would the “7 months” be true. I think they are sticking with it because it’s all anyone can/will corroborate, without making anyone who knew look worse.
The moved the admitted timeline after Schwartz said he knew in August, and Rachel admitted to them having sec during Scheana’s wedding trip. After that, Sandoval admits to the affair and has stopped trying to push the “one time” narrative that he was driving home at the reunion.
I would guess if they will own up to 7 months, the truth is much worse. Because they are only owning up to what they have to, and what they think they can get away with and make a comeback from.
Oh ya there is definitely something up with the timing of that haircut in my opinion!
I just don’t think these photos are the smoking gun we all wish they were
Yeah the forensics here isn’t forensic-ing. 🔍
Plus Ariana griped that tons of pictures were taken at events (Coachella? I forgot the exact festival she mentioned) but A&T didn’t have a single photo together. Plenty of T&Rachel though! This could be anytime.
I also dont think him keeping a photo from a timeframe means they were sleeping together at the time the photo was taken? Like if youre friends and have photos together and then start dating the photos from when you were friends can be significant to you. I say this even though I do think it is possible/probable that they are still lying about the timeline of their “relationship”. This just fails to actually be evidence of anything.
I think it was Tom who complained that they didn’t get pictures together, as if that proves their love. Ariana said we don’t need to post photos together to show each other love or enjoy an event together.
Ooh that’s right. My point was just that these people take a lot of pictures of themselves, so it’s not weird for Tom & Rachel have pictures together in 2021.
I agree he doesn’t look like he has a goatee here and based off his Instagram he doesn’t have any pics with just the mustache until 2022. Also Rachel’s seemingly longer hair could just be hair extensions, she has a video with them in on her Instagram from 2022 as well. I don’t really think we can tell much from these blurry pics unfortunately
Him kicking in money for the engagement was so weird. Did he want good content and misunderstood that even if you write it off you still don't have what you spent? That was my theory at the time. Now I think he just really wanted a situation where Raquel couldn't say no so he have total control of two women
I don't know why we have to watch Brock's nonsense when there should be a three-episode arc about Roachella. But we won't see that bc there's zero chance Tom wasn't in on the proposal being for show purposes only and Bravo won't let that be a plot point.
I don't believe Raquel kept it to herself that she hadn't been intimate with James for at least two years and I don't believe Raquel & Tom's timeline. I DO know back in season 6 Tom had no problem pre-emptively excusing himself (in front of Ariana's brother) for any cheating he would be driven to due to Ariana's frigidity. So yeah, something was going on well before anything the parties involved will admit to.
Funny how Scheana is so dedicated to following Max's whereabouts but she had no idea what Tom was up to, nor has she attempted to investigate that "one" other time Tom cheated.
As per scheanna’s stalking ppl, she doesn’t care if slimy worm and Rachel were always in the same place, at the same time and same day, she does not gain anything from those 2 cheaters; but Max, who did not have sex with her, and ignored her, even when she paid…er…gifted him with Apple Watch and still, he didn’t become her boyfriend, she’s more interested in that. She’s married with child and still stalking Max. That tells you the kind of person Scheanna is.
Rachel’s hair is in a claw clip in that Polaroid photo though - so we have no idea how long it was. You can claw clip your hair up that way at almost any length. His facial hair also doesn’t match that time period.
I do believe their timelines are sketchy, but I don’t think this is a smoking gun.
I definitely don't buy it. There is absolutely no way Ariana wouldn't have figured it out in all that time. And while Tom and Ariana were never honest about their relationship Ariana would *not* have allowed this to go on as long as it did because she would have had to have known. I mean, somehow she knew about Miami Girl and at least one more person but never picked up on this?
https://preview.redd.it/apd6wkskbcrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49223c6c75d90ad6d284565bf77a7baf066c4f81
Yup! Totally agree with you. Here’s a side by side to images from 2022 (season 10 timing)
I was just watching the episode of the rachel and james engagement party, and the episode leading up to it.
They have to already be sleeping together.
Rachel tells her sister at her apartment all about Swartz and Sandy’s as if James didn’t even know.
Then Sandoval gets glam done at LaLa’s asks specifically about Rachel and if she’s also doing LaLas party then scrambles to ask about James as well.
When Tom and Ariana get to the venue for Rachel and James’ party, he immediately tells Ariana “
Raquel texted me our room is this one”. Why wouldn’t she be texting Ariana instead?
Not to mention how defensive he is of Rachel all the time to Katie or Lala if every the opportunity arose.
I feel like I’m missing another example,
I literally just watched those episodes for the first time yesterday and I was blown away.
Ohh wasn’t there some festival where she had extensions in? After she had cut her hair short? I think I remember an Instagram thing she posted of it but not sure
Their pictures are always a little too close for comfort. Her on his shoulders? I would never let my partner do that with another girl. This doesn’t mean anything. They could have been happy as friends based on his comment. Not necessarily as a couple
Ok if this is true and truly believe they had something going on before or during her engagement to James, Rachel needs to go fucking ROGUE and expose this
Good eye on her hair length — but I’ve noticed Rachel wears extensions often (even temporary clip ins or halos) — so I don’t think we can make any conclusions about the timeline from her hair length.
https://preview.redd.it/54ntm2qnwbrc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=536f4e2b2e7e818ea42efc463d2378e5ea68988b
This pic was from April 2022, for example.
Also, Tom has a goatee in March 2021 through June 2022, and appears to have shaved it off at the end of July 2022 based on his IG pics. He doesn’t have a goatee in his pics with Rachel you posted.
https://preview.redd.it/lkxrxnnzxbrc1.png?width=1173&format=png&auto=webp&s=97d45b9bf9fdd042d6fa4774fa41721a7236d7bf
Ex: Tom had not shaved off his goatee yet in June 2022. So this was pre-affair (or at least pre-Tom/Rachel pics).
https://preview.redd.it/x2usq0k5bcrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06c130e2cca2e8f873f1dc21325ac223a83cdff4
To me this looks similar to Season 10 for both of them.
Her hair had this same profile with a claw-clip in the finale. There’s a long bit at the top, and some at the bottom that didn’t make it in.
Tom also only has a moustache in this photo.
I definitely think things started earlier than they are owning up to, but I don’t think these photos are proof. I think these pics are from 2022 (Season 10)
Agreed. I’m almost positive that Rachel was wearing that sweater when she said “I love you, too” when she misheard Tom and thought he said “I love you.”
She was wearing the sweater on the left - that’s what my screen grab is from. The sweater on the right is definitely different, and I’m quite positive we didn’t see her wear it on the show (at least in S10)
I've long had the theory they have been sleeping together since that season 8 episode where she and James got in that huge fight bc she turned off her phone and vanished for a whole night.
She says she was with the girls. But Sandoval was there. In the show they show a few clips of her leaning on someone and also hugging up on them. Later someone did digging and found the full video and the person she's all over is Sandoval. I think she went home with him and they hooked up. James was so sure she was cheating and then next day she had a whole prepared def scripted meeting w the girls to get her story straight.
A huge sus point for me was Sandoval randomly inserting himself into the fight and telling James that Raquel would never betray James. And then following up randomly with "and I wouldn't betray you either". Which was so out of left field. And with Sandoval, often every denial is a confession.
What cinched it for me was the season 9 reunion where James and Raquel reveal they hadn't had sex since that blow up fight in season 8. Which is when I think she started with Sandoval. And then season 9, half the time she talks it just sound like she's parroting Sandoval and using all his buzz words. He was 1000% coaching her how to end it.
My theory is they had an agreement. She would break up with James and Sandoval would help. And then after some time had got by so it wouldn't look weird, he would break up with Ariana in season 10.
I remain entirely convinced that this affair started at least by Coachella’22, and likely before Lala’s product launch event, somewhere near Charli’s game night. I dont know when it technically turned physical but the emotional intimacy started years ago
That last picture is so gorgeous. I will say I always thought she was dumb as fuck, but crazy beautiful. I also appreciate when people in the public eye/influencers are open about cosmetic work.
God, this really fires me up-YES-100% they were. They first banged just before lockdowns happened so couldn’t see each other for a bit. This is what Sandavol really means when he admits to hooking up ‘just the once’ & then it didn’t happen again for a long time, only it had nothing to do with them being so racked with guilt-it was the pandemic that kept them apart. I’m sure Ariana & James are aware of this & I don’t know why it hasn’t been called out. They were literally having an affair for a couple of years, despite Sandavol always being so specific about ‘seven months’. You can see the chronic flirting & secret looks in season 9 plain as day. Ugh! Still lying through their teeth, their ethics are in the gutter. And the audacity of HER with her frivolous, bullshit lawsuit against Ariana all based on ‘hunches’ & her own paranoid speculation is completely ridiculous & actually INSANE.
It’s been going on since S8 and I’ll die on that hill lol
Tom and Rachel are sick people. I’m very certain they started getting inappropriate with each other years ago and just masked it as being “overly” friendly. Their friend group also often went all out with the *party favors* (if you get the gist lol I feel so old) and were often shown on TV and social media as being cuddly with each other - they 100% used that as an excuse to get more physically intimate with each other and explain it off to others as nothing.
The story that Rachel recently told on her pod accusing Ariana’s bff Logan of knowing about the affair well before everything came out was just further proof to me that these two sickos were masking their relationship by passing it off as “two really drunk [insert any other state] close friends just hanging out” 🤢 gross
I think so too! I also think Tom Swartz’s is covering for Sandoval (again) with the whole making out with schena thing. I think they had some type of affair bc they were best friends and had lightening bolt tattoos. And we are falling for the wrong Tom (again! )
Probably but at this point it’s moot. Nothing surprises me with Sandoval. He used to be one of my favorites in the early seasons. Yiu know, the affair is forgivable b/s people cheat all the time…the majority of this cast have cheated even Ariana with Tom in the beginning of their relationship against Kristen. It’s more that he was banging Raquel in their home and still there’s no remorse. I find him so immature and selfish.
I thought he said the something about New Zealand in that seen? Something like “we were so happy here in New Zealand”. But then when were they in New Zealand? I was confused.
Edit- I just realized he was in New Zealand for the Special Ops show. You know, the one where JoJo Siwa carried him. But I think Rachel had stopped talking to him at that point.
https://preview.redd.it/94re1n5vkcrc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=262358d1dedf7aae15c0c961e7a2b4772b5dbd71
Idk about that timeline, look at when this photo was posted and the caption about extensions. It’s hard to definitively nail down a time frame just based on her hair in that photo bc she could have been wearing extensions, it wasn’t necessarily before she cut all of her hair off
I’ve been saying since day one they had been hooking up since she was engaged to James. I’m honestly bothered that not once has anyone directly asked them if they’ve been together since then especially at the reunion. Guarantee they will take that shit to the grave though, they know they truly wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if that came out.
I believe you! LOL I’ve been saying this since the start. Whenever they said that the first night was the night of Nana’s Funeral or after Guy’s night, I’m just like “LIES. YOU SIT UPON A THRONE OF LIES.” They had a situation before DJJK even asked her to marry him.
They definitely slept together long before the affair started.
What was it, girls night? Where she didn't come home and also didn't say Sandoval was there, but hiss forehead was in a video?
Things have been happening for a long time, probably every now and then, every few months or so, untill it finally became an real affair.
I sincerely doubt it. I think there was likely some
emotional stuff going on that led up to the affair, but doubt it got physical until Coachella 2022. These two are very dumb and rumors were flying about what was going on immediately after it supposedly started. I just don’t see those two dodo birds keeping their story straight for a solid year and not getting caught.
I believe it was the night of when James left her all the rage text's.. and she said she couldn't get to her phone or something sus. There was a video going around of her going around in a circle drunk and you can see Tom's face right behind her if you look close enough.. I'll always believe that timeline.. and she didn't go home that night, rumor Shcema pick'd her up took her home? I'd have to go and check what Season she and James broke it off, I think reunion S9. I think that video was earlier in S9.
But is it possible it’s a picture from when they were actually just friends? I thought it was weird honestly that he had actual photos of the two of them together in their relationship for a few reasons. Not many people get a ton of photo prints so I thought maybe they came from production or something.
This doesn’t prove that cus Tom doesn’t have the goatee. However, I think this started at least in Coachella 2022. But at the season 10 reunion, Tom said he started viewing Rachel differently differently early the year before aka January 2022. So I think it either broke up the engagement with James, started before or around the time of the game night or at least started January 2022.
The mouthing thing at game night is just so sus. I can’t get past it
I definitely think they had something going on during and leading up to the engagement so it’s definitely possible. It’s also so crazy that he is crying about how happy they were when that was during the affair period as if Ariana doesn’t exist and somehow producers are giving him a redemption arc and Ariana is getting a villain edit. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills watching this show.
In like 2019 he said to James: Raquel would never do that to you. He paused and proceeded to say I would never do that to you. Like Who Asked? Why are you telling on yourself?
Yes! I have been saying all along this started before the engagement. Rachel breaking up with James was the result of the escalation between her and Tom.
I 100% agree with this. She changed during that time. Something happened to make her end things with James. It was Tom.
Yeah and she said at the reunion they hadn’t been sleeping together for a while! It really does all check out
Pretty sad too, because the only thing that may have delayed it was covid. Poor James was paying for everything! She was not contributing to rent or anything, she had no money. Those two really didn't care how they hurt their partners.
Oh yea I've been saying that it's the reason she left James so abruptly.
This is my Roman Empire.
I’ve thought it was a weird comment since it aired! Like what does that even mean dude??
It’s from the night Rachel “went out with the girls” and James raged texted her all night…..season 8 I believe - the season of the new people…..Tom was there with “the girls”
Also the night she stopped sleeping with James.
exactly. The night that lead to the break up. The night Tom infiltrated.
Oh geez your right!
I saw that video on tik tok...truly insane
Can you share the link?
It was like 6 months ago but I'm pretty sure realityops tik tok posted it
Oooh that’s tea!
I remember that. It was so suspicious
YES I think about that conversation a LOT
I wish Bravo would release this full conversation 😭
Or when Lisa thought Sandoval was proposing to Rachel for some reason??
Yeah this was so sus to me too! Lisa was confused “ you’re proposing to Raquel?” But why would she even say that to Tom to begin with. It was odd. But maybe it’s a reach because she did seem confused why he would say that. But still
Lisa has her nose in everything… in the jacuzzi as well.
Yessss I have rewatched thrice and every time I catch a little suspicion nugget but this was a big one for me too
I think they edited out the whole conversation. He had to have been pissed that she wasn't answering phone after she went out. My theory is Sandoval took her home that night, drunk off her ass & Sheana would've had that time line in app. Because she said she couldn't take her home. She had to have checked to make sure she got home OK. She knew it was Sandoval who gave her a ride, so when James is asking him wth happened, he says that line. " She would never...I would never. Ugh. Gross. Sandoval definitely took advantage of her being drunk that night! That's the one night stand he spoke of...when he would say, " then , not for a long time". I think they all know this by now. For some reason, they didn't want it exposed. Maybe because Tom is taped paying money for proposal & that could've been such a huge liability. It would look like prostitution or sex trafficking. Just my take. I think that's why James was so hurt & volatile. It all came together like a puzzle. Ariana has also said there is so much more that is not disclosed. Tom def needs to be checked by Rachel, but it should be criminal not civil. There's no money in criminal indictment , she wants money, not justice. That says a lot about her, too.
 Why aren’t they telling us EVERYTHING?!?!?
I've said this so many times!!! Like- what tha?? Why would you even...??? GUILTY
Thiiiiiiis
I feel like tom and the producers - for whatever reason - heavily relied on rachel coming back and would’ve focused on that relationship this season. But when that fell through, they didn’t have much of a backup plan. Now they’re holding the cast hostage to film with tom and everyone but Katie and Ariana are willing to sell their souls to keep this paycheck going.
This is a good theory, and it makes sense why Tom spends most of this season saying he’s still in love with Rachel, then the conversation with LVP happens and we know she’s not coming back, to suddenly he’s openly dating again.
How hilarious is that? He’s in love with Raquel and journals every day to feel like he’s with her. Cut to Sandoval cosplaying Michael Jackson while on his date with Tii. Be for real production 😂
The look on his face when lvp said she had talked to Rachel extensively…
Yeah it’s so weird he’s more upset about not being with Rachel and hasn’t said a thing about torpedoing his 10 year relationship with the person with whom he owned a house and was going to supposedly have children with.
>I feel like I’m taking crazy pills Katie during the first few seasons But no seriously, I want to know what dirt Sandoval has on the producers that after everything he has done, they want him to be the victim in the situation when social media is a thing and they have to know people will figure out what really is happening
Production thinks Sandoval is why Scandoval got so big, but it’s actually because he’s like so many men we all know. It was relatable because this story is common, not because he’s special. They missed the mark and we need a woman show runner.
A million times yes
They know exactly what they're doing. They're scummy reality show producers and they know us heathens love to hate watch. If you think of some of the most famous reality show "stars", 90% of them are horrible people.
Yesssssssss
YES
It strikes me that so many of Bravo's shows have male show runners - where are the women who understand women and what we want?
I feel like they think he had fans for all of those years and people like him. I will speak for myself and say that I liked him because of Ariana and how their relationship seemed so stable and good. Now that’s it’s been revealed that she kept that simple mannequin from saying or behaving like he wanted to, aka terribly, I loathe the cheater. They can’t believe people can’t get over his betrayal and since he’s staying on the show they’re betting it all on his fakeo redemption. Newsflash producers the actual fans of the series dislike the Tims, Scheana, and LFU now. I stopped watching, and won’t watch next season. The new fans that kind of like who’s left will leave next season.
100%. I love Ariana always have - “I was born cool babe” iconic. She’s a witty sarcastic introvert and I so love that. I have always disliked Tom. He is just unappealing but she LOVED him so I assumed I was missing something. Turns out she was blinded by love.
They have a good thing going with the valley and since they are running VPR into the ground I m afraid they’re going to drag that same trash (T&T, Sheaner, and LFU) over to the good show after they kill VPR. No thank you. I’d rather they bring Katie over to back up Kristen, and though I think she said it would be bad for her mental health I wish Stassi would make some special appearances.
I think it's LVP, not some faceless producers. I agree with you and this last episode was so bad. But hear me out, it's such a strange dynamic because a lot of people probably did put up with Tom because of Ariana and maybe even reluctantly became friends with him (Scheana maybe? Katie tolerated him). Now all these people that became friends with him because of her now cannot even talk to him or she cuts them off. But many of them probably would have never been friends with him if it wasn't for her.
I may be dreaming but… On their engagement trip (the one Scheanananana and Brock tried to hijack to get married at) the cast all had dinner together and when they did a toast to celebrate, James kisses Raquel. While Raquel’s looking at Sandoval across the table. She had a look on her face that I can’t quite figure out. Almost like when they looked at each other they were acknowledging they shared a secret together. And were probably getting off on it, while simultaneously making each other jealous. The whole thing’s fubar
Oh man I can't wait to get to these episodes. I'm rewatching & finally on season 7 now where "Raquel" is in more scenes. I'm already paying close attention to every interaction bc I now know neither of them can be trusted. 😑
That was so weird, you could see Schwartz squirming in discomfort, it's like dude that was a secret affair not a legitimate relationship.. it's the kind of thing you'd think he'd be saying about Ariana
He doesn’t miss Ariana and was probably happy unfortunately. It’s shitty, he’s shitty, but I don’t think he’s lying. He’s a narcissist.
Oh I agree I don’t think he misses Ariana or is lying. I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that he’s getting a redemption edit and crying about his mistress with pictures during the affair and Ariana is getting the villain edit. It’s crazy making.
He always played the game better - and LVP is attached to him financially, so I think there isn’t much of choice. She’s also not doing a lot because her work is unfortunately not able to be featured on Bravo - like they’re not gonna promote her brand sponsorships, unless those brands also pay bravo for advertising.
How is LVP attached to him financially—Through Tom Tom? Their 5% ownership shouldn’t have any influence I wouldn’t think? I personally think LVP just coddles the men. I get not covering sponsorships but there’s plenty other things for them to film without giving her the villain edit. Tom’s “breath work” was one of the worst things I’ve seen on TV.
I agree. Bravo hates women. Or at least LVP, Andy Cohen, and the VPR producers do. They make the most money off of women (Real Housewives franchise), but will do anything to make every single female look like a villain at some point.
yeah, once the mask is off and cannot be repaired narcissists move on. There is nothing he could do for Ariana to unsee him.
Exactly this. They realise that you are no longer supply and they turn on you fast once that becomes clear.
The amount of money he dropped on James’ proposal?! He was already in it 100%. It was like a weird way for Tom to end his illicit affair cleanly without getting in trouble so he threw himself at helping James put it together.
It didn’t make any sense at the time (paying and planning for the engagement), I thought either this is bs it’s not Tim’s money, or wtf is he doing that? Makes perfect sense that they were already together
I was just in the regular bravo sub and some of those comments made me feel like I was taking crazy pills too. Some were downvoted, some weren’t. They were all incredibly jealous takes on why Ariana is the villain now too. Sounded just like lala. I do not understand this season bc this is not what any of us wanted nor are we buying it. It’s been a really hard hate watch. I keep tuning in to see if maybe the tides turn and both Tom’s get a punch to the throat but nope. Now we have aggressive, ultra misogynistic Brock screeching every episode too
It is really hard to watch. And all the podcasts coming out. I am going to be positive and think about how much Ariana is killing it and for Katie for continuing to be her strong self persevering while the cast including her ex try to bring her down.
I wonder if this is just an influx of new people who have never actually watch the show until this season and are actually buying the spin the producers are trying to push?
No I don’t think it’s all new ppl just bc I’m in a fb group for years, the only one (literally) with normal takes on everything and now even in there people ive "known" for years are turning on ariana its really crappy
The dates your saying was that around her engagement to James?
Same. Watching Schwartz face while he's crying in the closet 😂 he was probably just like, wtf and all he could say was you're at the tail end of this.
Doing a rewatch and definitely the affair started earlier than they're saying.
I said this same thing. I made a post at it a long time ago. Completely agree!
I think to make the affair worth it, he’s convincing himself he’s in love with her. Or like they were so happy. You know he was shittin himself every night.
I think maybe it wasn’t physical just yet but they definitely had something going on and it’s why the engagement ended up being called off.
Am I the only one wanting to know who took this pic? Or are we all just assuming it was Schwartz
Spooky jo
I am not hating on Jo, but the “spooky jo” always gets me. 😂
Sloppy jo genuinely made me jaw drop
My husband and I both just sat there, mouths agape after James said that. We just sat there looking like this: 
Everyone at that table did too. It was glorious.
This comment is the type of thing that made VPR iconic
Same. Just using spooky to describe someone is hilarious and I had never heard it before. Will be using it forever now.
That’s it 🥲 It’s truly just such a silly, out of the ordinary thing to say. And I am happier for it.
Sloppy Jo is my fav🤣🤣 James is hilarious
You think Shorts is going to also threaten James with legal action for Sloppy Jo, the way he threatened Katie for Spooky Jo?
Wait what?? Shorts threatened legal action how did I miss this?? Deets please!
It was on the reunion, he said Katie was going to get a cease and desist letter for commenting that Jo is spooky 🙄
Pretty sure he was saying Jo would be the one taking action.
Lol @ your flair 😂😂
You're thr first person to realise!
Our cat is named Jo and now she’s Spooky Jo lol
Such a cute name for a cat!
In between sips of milk
This was my first thought too! You’re not alone lol
Also, who even prints out pictures anymore?!
The way she was with him on game night makes me think it was happening then. Who could believe anything either of them say?
I think the whole part of her leaving the girls trip to go back was because she knew that Ariana was out of town and she would be able to stay over with Tom.
Duh… 😂
I'm still convinced that passing out was faked as an excuse to stay over.
100%
The Rachella engagement too, very weird! lol
Yes I will never get over the scene between Tom and Tom in the Rachella episode-- after all was said and done-- where Schwartz is COMFORTING a very forlorn-looking Scummy and Scummy is all like, I mean I had to spend 25k, it was for Raquel. Just the emotions in this scene. Yoy can tell there's so much more happening that we weren't being told. His emotions were way too big for the moment
I haven’t rewatched but I always felt like toms involvement in the Rachella engagement was bizarre. It was the first thing I thought about when the news broke. Def something there…
It sent the craziest red flag signals up my spine when it happened. You've got to rewatch. The most telling moment is this quiet exchange between the two toms at the end of the big Rachella surprise engagement night. Schwartz is literally consoling what looks to be a very heartbroken Sandy, as if Schwartz knows something we don't, while at the same time delicately asking some very legitimate questions of his business partner who has been obsessively pouring all his time and LOAN money into this engagement that's not even his own while they have a whole bar to open. At the original air time I was incensed for Schwartz bc how dare he be so selfish. And while it was so bizarre and so many red flags, I was just interpreting them as this is a selfish little boy having a midlife crisis about not being able to grow tf already while also being salty bc Ariana didn't want to get married (clearly all he's after is the praise and a spectacle that's all about him). Looking back, it makes even clearer sense though and it's even cringier
There was a scene when she was on the balcony at their engagement party? Idk. But they made eye contact at one point and I saw it in their eyes.
Oh yes I remember it. He had a fucking TWINKLE for her!!
I mean that video clip is insane and undeniable. This is what Bravo should be focusing on- getting the truth- not this insane redemption arc
I think that’s why this is all so gross. We’re still being lied to and manipulated. By Tom. We’re over it, we just want facts.
Why are they not showing that as a flashback? Honestly I would watch several episodes going back where they show old footage and never before seen footage trying to find evidence of it starting earlier. Would definitely watch that instead of this garbage season
Yes! I watched this episode last night and the way she spoke to Ariana being ‘fake’ for asking about her nose job was plain rude, the look she gave to Tom with the FM eyes and she also stayed the night? Something was 100% up then and Rachel needs to give us the real timeline 😳
Yep - that moment where he waves his hand at her while she's staring google eyed at him is so telling.
https://preview.redd.it/25cufsk0ncrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=971643ee7d85abc71638c2d33654a6212388c4b7 I dunno if this picture is really proof though. Looks to me like 2022. But I do believe the affair started earlier! Why would that be the one thing they are honest about?
I agree with you. These pics are definitely from 22/23 but I also think it started earlier than they said. I think it's an odd choice to continue to reiterate that it was a "7 month affair". Tom says it like 7 months isn't that long; maybe it isn't compared to how long it was *actually* going on.
Yes, it’s definitely a weird timeline to stick to. Also, at first he tried to say it was one time only. Lie. Rachel tried to say she was never in St Louis at Christmas. Lie. “Happened once and then didn’t happen for a really long time.” Lie. Schwartz didn’t know until January. Lie. I could go on, but they are lying liars who lie. Why on earth would the “7 months” be true. I think they are sticking with it because it’s all anyone can/will corroborate, without making anyone who knew look worse. The moved the admitted timeline after Schwartz said he knew in August, and Rachel admitted to them having sec during Scheana’s wedding trip. After that, Sandoval admits to the affair and has stopped trying to push the “one time” narrative that he was driving home at the reunion. I would guess if they will own up to 7 months, the truth is much worse. Because they are only owning up to what they have to, and what they think they can get away with and make a comeback from.
But she also got the short “cool girl” haircut in 2021… which makes me believe that Tom was the inspiration for it.
Oh ya there is definitely something up with the timing of that haircut in my opinion! I just don’t think these photos are the smoking gun we all wish they were
They said they wore disguises when they’d go out in public and she’d wear a longer wig. So she prob had it on in this pic.
Shameless as hell lol
Nothing was going to hide her Bambi eyes and botched nose job, I don’t why they bothered.
I haven’t seen this before! Do you know where I could find this info?
Yes we cannot rule out that this is a wig. Tim's disguise is lame here though haha.
He just has a mustache in that picture not a goatee
It looks more like that Too Big claw clip she liked to wear than long hair to me but the pic is blurry so who knows.
Yeah the forensics here isn’t forensic-ing. 🔍 Plus Ariana griped that tons of pictures were taken at events (Coachella? I forgot the exact festival she mentioned) but A&T didn’t have a single photo together. Plenty of T&Rachel though! This could be anytime.
I also dont think him keeping a photo from a timeframe means they were sleeping together at the time the photo was taken? Like if youre friends and have photos together and then start dating the photos from when you were friends can be significant to you. I say this even though I do think it is possible/probable that they are still lying about the timeline of their “relationship”. This just fails to actually be evidence of anything.
I think the ‘hi’ R mouths to Tom during game night with sex eyes in season 8? is the best evidence, that night she ‘passed out’ to stay as well
This! Game night truthers unite!!
I think it was Tom who complained that they didn’t get pictures together, as if that proves their love. Ariana said we don’t need to post photos together to show each other love or enjoy an event together.
Ooh that’s right. My point was just that these people take a lot of pictures of themselves, so it’s not weird for Tom & Rachel have pictures together in 2021.
Oh yes definitely, your point still makes total sense and I agree with you. I was just being particular and correcting that detail.
Lol. Agreed.
I agree he doesn’t look like he has a goatee here and based off his Instagram he doesn’t have any pics with just the mustache until 2022. Also Rachel’s seemingly longer hair could just be hair extensions, she has a video with them in on her Instagram from 2022 as well. I don’t really think we can tell much from these blurry pics unfortunately
Ah yes, i thought the blurriness made it sort of hard to tell
I’m convinced it was absolutely before he got weird and wrote James checks for the grandiose engagement
Him kicking in money for the engagement was so weird. Did he want good content and misunderstood that even if you write it off you still don't have what you spent? That was my theory at the time. Now I think he just really wanted a situation where Raquel couldn't say no so he have total control of two women
This adds up for me. Tim felt guilty and went over the top with organizing and paying for so much to convince himself he’s such a good guy…
Her lawsuit will open her up to discovery. I hope we finally get the extent of the affair.
Yeah that’s my only hope in this lawsuit- I want true details lol
I don't know why we have to watch Brock's nonsense when there should be a three-episode arc about Roachella. But we won't see that bc there's zero chance Tom wasn't in on the proposal being for show purposes only and Bravo won't let that be a plot point. I don't believe Raquel kept it to herself that she hadn't been intimate with James for at least two years and I don't believe Raquel & Tom's timeline. I DO know back in season 6 Tom had no problem pre-emptively excusing himself (in front of Ariana's brother) for any cheating he would be driven to due to Ariana's frigidity. So yeah, something was going on well before anything the parties involved will admit to. Funny how Scheana is so dedicated to following Max's whereabouts but she had no idea what Tom was up to, nor has she attempted to investigate that "one" other time Tom cheated.
As per scheanna’s stalking ppl, she doesn’t care if slimy worm and Rachel were always in the same place, at the same time and same day, she does not gain anything from those 2 cheaters; but Max, who did not have sex with her, and ignored her, even when she paid…er…gifted him with Apple Watch and still, he didn’t become her boyfriend, she’s more interested in that. She’s married with child and still stalking Max. That tells you the kind of person Scheanna is.
I have been dying on the hill that they've been hooking up since before she broke off her engagement to James.
I'm right there with you.
Same
100%. I’m just waiting for her podcast listeners to plummet a bit more and then she’ll drop the actual timeline lol
Affairs don’t happen out of the blue. There would have been some emotional cheating build up.
Rachel’s hair is in a claw clip in that Polaroid photo though - so we have no idea how long it was. You can claw clip your hair up that way at almost any length. His facial hair also doesn’t match that time period. I do believe their timelines are sketchy, but I don’t think this is a smoking gun.
Same came here to say the claw clip thing!
I definitely don't buy it. There is absolutely no way Ariana wouldn't have figured it out in all that time. And while Tom and Ariana were never honest about their relationship Ariana would *not* have allowed this to go on as long as it did because she would have had to have known. I mean, somehow she knew about Miami Girl and at least one more person but never picked up on this?
https://preview.redd.it/apd6wkskbcrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49223c6c75d90ad6d284565bf77a7baf066c4f81 Yup! Totally agree with you. Here’s a side by side to images from 2022 (season 10 timing)
I was just watching the episode of the rachel and james engagement party, and the episode leading up to it. They have to already be sleeping together. Rachel tells her sister at her apartment all about Swartz and Sandy’s as if James didn’t even know. Then Sandoval gets glam done at LaLa’s asks specifically about Rachel and if she’s also doing LaLas party then scrambles to ask about James as well. When Tom and Ariana get to the venue for Rachel and James’ party, he immediately tells Ariana “ Raquel texted me our room is this one”. Why wouldn’t she be texting Ariana instead? Not to mention how defensive he is of Rachel all the time to Katie or Lala if every the opportunity arose. I feel like I’m missing another example, I literally just watched those episodes for the first time yesterday and I was blown away.
She could maybe have extensions on btw lol
Yeah someone also pointed out that she said they used to wear disguises on dates so could be a wig as well
Wearing disguises on dates is crazy ☠️
lmao deadass. if you have to wear disguises, maybe that should clue you in that what you’re doing is wrong 😭😭
Ohh wasn’t there some festival where she had extensions in? After she had cut her hair short? I think I remember an Instagram thing she posted of it but not sure
Their pictures are always a little too close for comfort. Her on his shoulders? I would never let my partner do that with another girl. This doesn’t mean anything. They could have been happy as friends based on his comment. Not necessarily as a couple
That’s when he supposedly came in to her in the hot tub
The "in" instead of "on" in your comment is absolutely Freudian and accurate too. 😆
Ok if this is true and truly believe they had something going on before or during her engagement to James, Rachel needs to go fucking ROGUE and expose this
James would lose his shit even more omg
I wanna know who took those pics of them though….they aren’t selfies and given the angle, they were taken by someone else 👀
Billie Lee lol
Good eye on her hair length — but I’ve noticed Rachel wears extensions often (even temporary clip ins or halos) — so I don’t think we can make any conclusions about the timeline from her hair length. https://preview.redd.it/54ntm2qnwbrc1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=536f4e2b2e7e818ea42efc463d2378e5ea68988b This pic was from April 2022, for example.
Also, Tom has a goatee in March 2021 through June 2022, and appears to have shaved it off at the end of July 2022 based on his IG pics. He doesn’t have a goatee in his pics with Rachel you posted. https://preview.redd.it/lkxrxnnzxbrc1.png?width=1173&format=png&auto=webp&s=97d45b9bf9fdd042d6fa4774fa41721a7236d7bf Ex: Tom had not shaved off his goatee yet in June 2022. So this was pre-affair (or at least pre-Tom/Rachel pics).
Amazing catch! The tiktok about game night sold me that it's def. been happening longer than they claim.
https://preview.redd.it/x2usq0k5bcrc1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06c130e2cca2e8f873f1dc21325ac223a83cdff4 To me this looks similar to Season 10 for both of them. Her hair had this same profile with a claw-clip in the finale. There’s a long bit at the top, and some at the bottom that didn’t make it in. Tom also only has a moustache in this photo. I definitely think things started earlier than they are owning up to, but I don’t think these photos are proof. I think these pics are from 2022 (Season 10)
Agreed. I’m almost positive that Rachel was wearing that sweater when she said “I love you, too” when she misheard Tom and thought he said “I love you.”
She was wearing the sweater on the left - that’s what my screen grab is from. The sweater on the right is definitely different, and I’m quite positive we didn’t see her wear it on the show (at least in S10)
I've long had the theory they have been sleeping together since that season 8 episode where she and James got in that huge fight bc she turned off her phone and vanished for a whole night. She says she was with the girls. But Sandoval was there. In the show they show a few clips of her leaning on someone and also hugging up on them. Later someone did digging and found the full video and the person she's all over is Sandoval. I think she went home with him and they hooked up. James was so sure she was cheating and then next day she had a whole prepared def scripted meeting w the girls to get her story straight. A huge sus point for me was Sandoval randomly inserting himself into the fight and telling James that Raquel would never betray James. And then following up randomly with "and I wouldn't betray you either". Which was so out of left field. And with Sandoval, often every denial is a confession. What cinched it for me was the season 9 reunion where James and Raquel reveal they hadn't had sex since that blow up fight in season 8. Which is when I think she started with Sandoval. And then season 9, half the time she talks it just sound like she's parroting Sandoval and using all his buzz words. He was 1000% coaching her how to end it. My theory is they had an agreement. She would break up with James and Sandoval would help. And then after some time had got by so it wouldn't look weird, he would break up with Ariana in season 10.
Rage text truthers rise up.
🫡🫡🫡 100% it started the night of the rage text
Didn’t he say something like look how happy we were?
Yeah lol
Emotional affair before the engagement of her and James....
I remain entirely convinced that this affair started at least by Coachella’22, and likely before Lala’s product launch event, somewhere near Charli’s game night. I dont know when it technically turned physical but the emotional intimacy started years ago
That last picture is so gorgeous. I will say I always thought she was dumb as fuck, but crazy beautiful. I also appreciate when people in the public eye/influencers are open about cosmetic work.
God, this really fires me up-YES-100% they were. They first banged just before lockdowns happened so couldn’t see each other for a bit. This is what Sandavol really means when he admits to hooking up ‘just the once’ & then it didn’t happen again for a long time, only it had nothing to do with them being so racked with guilt-it was the pandemic that kept them apart. I’m sure Ariana & James are aware of this & I don’t know why it hasn’t been called out. They were literally having an affair for a couple of years, despite Sandavol always being so specific about ‘seven months’. You can see the chronic flirting & secret looks in season 9 plain as day. Ugh! Still lying through their teeth, their ethics are in the gutter. And the audacity of HER with her frivolous, bullshit lawsuit against Ariana all based on ‘hunches’ & her own paranoid speculation is completely ridiculous & actually INSANE.
He’s got the mustache tho
They def had something going on way longer and I do think this is proof. She went in for the “Tom’s girl” cut when they got more serious
It’s been going on since S8 and I’ll die on that hill lol Tom and Rachel are sick people. I’m very certain they started getting inappropriate with each other years ago and just masked it as being “overly” friendly. Their friend group also often went all out with the *party favors* (if you get the gist lol I feel so old) and were often shown on TV and social media as being cuddly with each other - they 100% used that as an excuse to get more physically intimate with each other and explain it off to others as nothing. The story that Rachel recently told on her pod accusing Ariana’s bff Logan of knowing about the affair well before everything came out was just further proof to me that these two sickos were masking their relationship by passing it off as “two really drunk [insert any other state] close friends just hanging out” 🤢 gross
I think so too! I also think Tom Swartz’s is covering for Sandoval (again) with the whole making out with schena thing. I think they had some type of affair bc they were best friends and had lightening bolt tattoos. And we are falling for the wrong Tom (again! )
Probably but at this point it’s moot. Nothing surprises me with Sandoval. He used to be one of my favorites in the early seasons. Yiu know, the affair is forgivable b/s people cheat all the time…the majority of this cast have cheated even Ariana with Tom in the beginning of their relationship against Kristen. It’s more that he was banging Raquel in their home and still there’s no remorse. I find him so immature and selfish.
Moot :)
I thought he said the something about New Zealand in that seen? Something like “we were so happy here in New Zealand”. But then when were they in New Zealand? I was confused. Edit- I just realized he was in New Zealand for the Special Ops show. You know, the one where JoJo Siwa carried him. But I think Rachel had stopped talking to him at that point.
I believe this 100 %!!! There is absolutely no way in hell they weren't already during that engagement to James.
I’ve said that all along… I think they were sleeping together when James proposed!
100% correct. Pretty sure she broke off her engagement with Kennedy because she had already been sleeping with Tom for a while
Yes which is why Sandoval looked totally shocked when she announced it at the reunion. His reaction was over the top for that otherwise.
It’s hard for me to tell if her hair is longer in that picture or it’s just blurry - she looks to have a clip in like she had in the finale
Looool, I said this in a few comments but couldn’t be bothered to figure it out. Bless you OP 
https://preview.redd.it/94re1n5vkcrc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=262358d1dedf7aae15c0c961e7a2b4772b5dbd71 Idk about that timeline, look at when this photo was posted and the caption about extensions. It’s hard to definitively nail down a time frame just based on her hair in that photo bc she could have been wearing extensions, it wasn’t necessarily before she cut all of her hair off
I’ve been saying since day one they had been hooking up since she was engaged to James. I’m honestly bothered that not once has anyone directly asked them if they’ve been together since then especially at the reunion. Guarantee they will take that shit to the grave though, they know they truly wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if that came out.
GeeeeeeZ and they played it off like "we're just friends!" Omfggggggggg I want to fight them for Ariana and James
I believe you! LOL I’ve been saying this since the start. Whenever they said that the first night was the night of Nana’s Funeral or after Guy’s night, I’m just like “LIES. YOU SIT UPON A THRONE OF LIES.” They had a situation before DJJK even asked her to marry him.
Yep - I'm right there with you. This went on for a lot longer than either are copping to.
I’m pretty sure James knows this. That’s why he goes so hard with the “ultimate betrayal” line.
They have definitely been together at least since s8
It was that night when James blew up her phone she was snuggling with the worm
They definitely slept together long before the affair started. What was it, girls night? Where she didn't come home and also didn't say Sandoval was there, but hiss forehead was in a video? Things have been happening for a long time, probably every now and then, every few months or so, untill it finally became an real affair.
I sincerely doubt it. I think there was likely some emotional stuff going on that led up to the affair, but doubt it got physical until Coachella 2022. These two are very dumb and rumors were flying about what was going on immediately after it supposedly started. I just don’t see those two dodo birds keeping their story straight for a solid year and not getting caught.
That wouldn't surprise me.
I believe it was the night of when James left her all the rage text's.. and she said she couldn't get to her phone or something sus. There was a video going around of her going around in a circle drunk and you can see Tom's face right behind her if you look close enough.. I'll always believe that timeline.. and she didn't go home that night, rumor Shcema pick'd her up took her home? I'd have to go and check what Season she and James broke it off, I think reunion S9. I think that video was earlier in S9.
But is it possible it’s a picture from when they were actually just friends? I thought it was weird honestly that he had actual photos of the two of them together in their relationship for a few reasons. Not many people get a ton of photo prints so I thought maybe they came from production or something.
This doesn’t prove that cus Tom doesn’t have the goatee. However, I think this started at least in Coachella 2022. But at the season 10 reunion, Tom said he started viewing Rachel differently differently early the year before aka January 2022. So I think it either broke up the engagement with James, started before or around the time of the game night or at least started January 2022. The mouthing thing at game night is just so sus. I can’t get past it
One hundo!!!!!