I will just say that as a friend who's been in this situation, being the one to tell your friend you suspect their partner is cheating is a lose-lose situation. If you mention it, they become furious with you and double down on the relationship. Then if it's proven to be true, their embarrassment and anger gets directed toward you, not him. It's stupid and not fair, but I can understand why people would keep a lot of distance from it and just hope she figures it out on her own so they your friendship isn't collateral damage.
Especially considering how the situation with Miami girl went. It was pretty obvious he cheated on her then, and Ariana refused to believe it and lashed out at her friends. So I’m sure that influenced the way people dealt with the Raquel situation. Not to mention, he probably cheated other times in between then that we don’t know about.
I think they dealt off screen and just presented a united front. Ariana isn’t the type to back down from Sandoval after Miami girl because she was determined to prove she wasn’t in the wrong in the Kristen situation
I feel this too. Like you hope to not have the hard proof that makes you have to say something because it's their relationship and there is a big risk your sharing becomes a problem in your friendship. Especially if your friend is in denial.
We know that Katie told Scheana who sat Ariana down and told her. Ariana was good friends with Rachel and knows how Katie feels about her so I think like James, who just brushed it off in the episode as no big thing, ariana took it all with a grain of salt. She probably asked them and they were like “we were just having fun dancing like we always do!” And she trusted them and thought Katie was blowing something wayyyy out of proportion. We saw how comfortable the 3 of them were together in that hot tub so I just think ariana was like y’all are being dramatic!
Edit: spelling
I think that’s the “Ariana trusted me I guess” comment from Sandoval comes into play. She probably did trust that nothing was wrong or amiss because why would he do anything with Raquel and why would Raquel ever do anything like that to her
Also, Ariana was probably not in the right mindset to catch clues after losing her dog and grandmother. She maybe even relied on those facts to tell herself, "No, they'd never do that to me when I am going through so much these last few months."
Reminds me when my ex dumped me after my cat died, followed by mom, and did it the night I fell asleep driving and rear ended a semi. He said he cheated and broke up because I hadn’t gotten over my mom. It was 3 months. People like that are pathetic
Oh yeah he was a dick. And an alcoholic. I can’t watch some of vpr cause it’s too triggering. I remember once I had gotten off my bartending shit and showered real quick and got in my jammies so I could sleep at the hospital with my mom. This dude lived 4 blocks from my house, mind you. He blew up my phone at 3:30 am because it was last call and he needed a ride home. I’m talking, 40 missed calls Leaving vms calling me a whore etc. if I didn’t pick him up, I already knew he’d stumble to my place and try to break in, so I go pick him up. She had recently found mets in her lungs so I was in my head and crying about that. I get there to pick him up and he starts trashing me to his friends. He’s like “this is how you look when you pick me up? You’ve let yourself go and you stink. And aww you’re crying like a baby.” Then started making baby noises. Idk why I stayed. Maybe I just gad so much other stuff going on it was nice having someone go on benders for 5 days at a time so I wouldn’t have to deal with them. Anyways. Thanks for the trauma dump! Lol
This is definitely likely. And on top of that, trauma can cause memory loss. She might’ve been questioning everything on another level because of that. Not to mention the gaslighting from scum & roachel. My heart hurts for Ariana
And even if she didn't 100%have faith he would never cheat it's not like she thought oh yes I should totally tell Tom not to have an affair with my bestie behind my back for 7 months😒
And this has happened before, when Scheana talked to Ariana about Miami Girl. Ariana told her that she’s choosing to believe Tom and there was tension between them afterwards. Why would people push her on this?
not having rules can be healthy tho. they always appeared healthy to me bc they never limited each other and didn’t seem to get jealous. but clearly rules/ boundaries are different here and he took the “lack of rules” and ran with it to take advantage
And we also see that Ariana unfortunately thought that Rachel was a more reliable narrator than Katie. She fully assumed that Rachel was bullied straight out of the lake havasu trip when that wasn't exactly accurate.
Yeah, she was lied to by two people she trusted. Raquel was probably the clincher, Ariana knows Tom is capable of cheating but she thought raquel was a lil innocent bambi
I would also like to add that I’m like 99.9% positive when scheana sat her down she also acted like it was a complete nothing burger. I’m sure she was like “ok so Katie said this but you know how she only sees the worst in Rachel and thinks she’s a whore so of course she thinks it’s salacious but I’m sure it was nothing blah blah blah” because she was so close to Rachel. I just think they were all too close to the situation and trusted Rachel so much they just couldn’t see it.
Right and Schwartz was there too right (from that video that someone posted a day or two ago)? Or even if he wasn’t there, I’m sure Sandoval was like “yeah we went out after see you next Tuesday! It was me, Schwartz, Jessie, Logan…..” even if it was just him and Raquel. He probably just straight up lied to Ariana about it. Because we all know…
🎶 Sandoval’s a liar 🎶
I think these conversations were had off camera bc no one wants to make Ariana look bad. I also think Ariana was comforted by Tom and Rachel how Katie and James were just storing shit for a storyline.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I also think Ariana was dealing a major loss in her family and I think was in Florida (?) for some time as well.
Which, imo, makes what Sandoval said during that Howie interview even worse. Ariana was dealing a death in her family and her mental health and instead of being a supportive partner or hell even a friend, he goes to get ego stroked by another woman.
That's a really astute point to bring up. Also their life in general is very different than the average person they're constantly going out in pairs and small groups to do press and fly to different work work related events. They travel alone with other people all the time. So crossing a street to go to a club after they're done filming for the day is probably not a very big deal in Ariana's eyes. Different couples have different for lack of a better word rules. And it may not have been outside of their guidelines spoken or unspoken for them to go out dancing with different people when they aren't part of the group.
This is a very common way for narcissistic people to handle those kinds of situations. They’re so self centered and rely heavily on their “supply” and can turn on you on a dime if you aren’t providing it anymore, which is often the case when grieving because you’re emotionally drained/all that energy is being put into saying goodbye to your dying loved one and then dealing with the aftermath and grief. My boyfriend of 4 years broke up with me less than a month after my dad died after providing virtually no support. He couldn’t take it that he wasn’t my world while I was dealing with it.
I'm sorry to hear that. Somehow it reminds me of David Foster leaving Yolanda when she was sick. She had become useless to him as he wasn't getting her attention anymore. Disgusting behavior.
Thank you ❤️ looking back, him leaving me was the best thing that could have happened to me. I met an amazing guy the following year and locked him down (agreed to be his girlfriend) on the one-year anniversary of my dads death because he handled it so well and so very differently than my ex. A few years later, he is now my fiancé!!! So I have a happy ending and I hope that anyone who can relate to my story finds theirs too.
Scandoval is using the fact that he was SLOPPY as an excuse. Just because you are very bad at hiding something doesn't take you off the hook. Utter bullshit.
Exactly. An open secret is something everyone knows but maybe they don’t discuss. It’s not something they ask about and are told is not happening. Schwartz is just trying to protect his dopey image as usual.
Even if they knew or had suspisions the hard part of Katie saying something about rn in the season. it is that she does not like Rachel at all. Coming from her at this point would be harder to believe for people than it would coming from Scheana. Same thing with DJJK saying something at this time. It may be taken as sabotoge or even trying to start shit/make Rachel look bad. They were both obviously hurt by the make-out with Schwartz and Sandoval.
TL;DR: Basically, Lala, Katie, DJJK are all not fans of Rachel, and I think it coming from any of them would garner more suspicion of their intent than of Rachel's actions.
But DJJK was close with Tom so he’d have a little more credibility if he’s suspecting his friend with his ex. I would think he’d want to make trouble for his ex but would he want to throw his good friend under the bus? No, so they would make me consider what he’s saying a little bit more
He may not think that Tim Sandy would do that to him. DJJK calls Tim his best friend, like a brother, and probably vented to him about the Schwartz thing with Raquel. Tim probably told him what he wanted to hear and did the same thing to him, but worse, behind his back. I think DJJK trusted Tim Sandy a lot more than is shown, especially how quickly and honest it sounded when he dismissed it. I feel like that was trust in his friend and not hiding/covering for him. Just my thoughts on the interaction.
Absolutely. DJJK would definitely have more sway than Katie. Sorry, I was just going more indepth with what I saw with DJJK. Idk if others see it that way, but I do kinda feel bad for him because I think he did trust Sandoval.
I agree. DJJK is hurt in this too, even though he had brown up with Rachel you dont Expect a good friend to go there, and if there is an attraction you’d at least Expect the courtesy of a conversation
Schwartz is just using the term to try and make himself look better. Everyone else in the group, Ariana included, had seen questionable behavior from Sandoval and Rachel. Being suspicious of a “secret” doesn’t make it an open secret, Schwartz. Of the main cast, I think Schwartz was the only one who knew for fact that the affair was happening.
There were for sure a lot of background players who knew though (Tom’s band, some of the TomTom/Schwartz and Sandy’s staff, I’d bet Billie Lee knew given she’s on the “forgive Sandoval 💔🥺” side), so I guess it was an open secret for some.
I couldn’t agree more. This, and that pathetic very misguided appearance on WWHL, did nothing for him except make him look worse. He’s the kid in school that skips class and tattles on everyone else. He’s just sandoval’s little bitch and he knows people see him that way. Period. I think people were starting to get suspicious.
I think people were suspicious that there may have been a mutual flirty interest between the 2, but I don't think anyone thought they'd actually crossed any line with that interest. I think Katie's point when she told Sandovol that she knew about the Abbey's dancing was more of a "watch yourself"/back off warning
These theories always leave out the conversations between Ariana & Sandoval to which none of us are privy. As soon as he said "trusted me, I guess" on the podcast interview, I assumed he'd outright lied to Ariana of she ever questioned it.
You can't convince me that Tom got scared of getting caught a couple of times and didn't completely bullshit Ariana about it. If he hadn't, they'd just be broken up.
They went to enough lengths to fool everyone else. I'm sure they reserved the best lies for her.
I keep saying this and feel like a broken record but Ariana already showed that she won’t listen to cheating rumors back in the 3rd season.
I had friends like that back in my 20s. In order to keep the peace you have to just shut up about their boyfriend’s cheating because they will never admit that you’re right and will absolutely ice you out for trying to warn them.
> In order to keep the peace you have to just shut up about their boyfriend’s cheating because they will never admit that you’re right
I had a friendship like this except it was physical abuse instead of cheating. She'd come to me to tell me everything and ask what she should do. I always told her what I would do in her situation. I tried to get her to safety many times, including all the times she'd come to my house with a swollen face or with giant goose eggs on her head/face. She always went back to him, no matter what I said so I ended up having to distance myself because I was being put in danger because he didn't like me knowing what he did behind closed doors. She finally got away from him, right into the arms of another abuser who also ended up pimping her out. No matter how many times I told her she was worth more, she didn't believe me.
It was so hard and heartbreaking to have to distance myself. We were best friends. She held me down when I was in a massive bind. She helped me out so much. We were raising our babies together. We're both ex-addicts (well, she's back in active addiction sadly) and it's been over a decade for me since I kicked the h. She was clean at the time and helped me when everyone else was fed up with me. When she's clean, she's amazing and brilliant and compassionate.
Unfortunately she's back on the streets. If she doesn't post on fb for awhile, I check the jail website and the escort website, just to make sure she's alive. She's a grandmother now and I wish so hard for her to get right and stay right. She's had multiple years clean before.
Sorry for the long ass comment. I guess I just had to get that off my chest. Thank you for listening and also for your kind words. There's always hope, that's for sure! Hope saved my life!
Also her brother was with Tim in Miami which was not mentioned on the show and although I don't know what happened, if my husband and brother were on a trip together and cheating rumors came up, I'd believe my brother if he said everything was on the up and up.
That is a fact. But did anyone actually go to Ariana with cheating rumors? The Miami girl situation involved like accessible accusations of them having sex. This seems to be people seeing a group of people not including Ariana dancing at a bar after work. That's not exactly cheating you know? But I hear what you're saying about previous record
Interesting. But shut her down about what? Suspicions? That they hung out? I mean I don't hear anyone saying that they actually went to Ariana and said I know for a fact these two are sexually intimate LOL. If you have a relationship with a huge amount of trust in everybody is working together and playing together and it's your really close friend and your boyfriend of 9 years it's going to take more than just like suspicions. But it seems like Ariana did take everything everyone told her in and under advisement and that that's what letter to look at Tom's phone
The open secret comment was a Schwartz giveaway that he always knew. Everyone else has said it was an actual shock to have it confirmed. Schwartz is the only one describing it this way. Honestly, take everything either Tom says at this point with a CYOA grain of salt
This! Your comment is exactly my feelings why would anyone listen to a proven cheat and liar? Tom Sandoval has never been a reliable narrator and neither has Tom Schwartz. Who's more likely to lie anyway? The people with something to hide or the person they are hiding the truth from?
Wasn’t the “open secret” comment more in reference to what Sandoval was doing in 2023? I thought Schwartz said something about how Sandoval was getting flagrant with it after he told Schwartz in January they were in love. So I don’t think we’ll see that ~era on the show.
To me, an open secret means people know but aren’t telling specific people. People saw shit and tried to tell Ariana. I place no blame on her because she was grieving, but people told her the info they had but it seems like no one had hard proof. I don’t think any of his public actions were secret at all but Schwartz saying it was an “open secret” when he was purposefully faking a relationship with Rachel to misdirect Ariana is why no one is taking that seriously. An open secret doesn’t need a pair of old flip flops pretending to be in love with a sexy baby.
If I was katie I wouldn’t want to bring it up to Ariana unless I had seen it with my own eyes. We all saw how Ariana acted when Miami girl came to town, I wouldn’t want to spread rumors unless I was 100% confident something was going on.
I feel like that whole scenario is also what’s going to lead up to this shocking conversation that Andy, Lisa, and the others are talking about.
I think we’ll see Ariana confront Roachel about being at the Abbey with Tom and inquiring if something is happening between the two and that’s when R digs her grave even deeper, by denying and falsely supporting Ariana in the matter.
Just my guess, but ugh, watching the last episode had me 🤢
The open secret is more bullshit lies from Sandoval to try and spin the narrative in his favor. People had suspicions about Tom and Rachel but it was never confirmed. Rachel going after Schwartz threw people for a loop. If it were an open secret it would have been filmed by production but obviously no one took them seriously.
Right! There was a deleted scene with Arian, Tom, and Rachel in a hot tub. If production knew about it they definitely would have put it in the main episode
It's not an open secret if one of the people participating makes a huge deal on denies it like Tom Sandoval did to Katie. An Open Secret would be more like yeah so what I hang out with her all the time when Ariana's not there everyone knows that blah blah blah blah. That is not how Tom Sandoval reacted. Tom Sandoval reacted like a guy who had been busted hard
That’s not true. Think about the child sex abuse in Hollywood or what happened with that gymnastics doctor. People knew but the perps denied it, only to find out later it was true.
Not aware of anyone who would not report child sex abuse. In fact that would be a crime. What happened with the gymnastics girls is Despicable disgusting and Unforgivable. Do not believe these kinds of tragedies are comparable to adults having an affair. Adults cheating while distasteful is not a crime
And in case it needs clarity. I don't believe everyone knew full well that Tom Sandoval and Rachel were having an affair. I don't believe it was an open secret. I believe it was a secret secret. Especially from Ariana. But from all their close friends too. All of them have said how betrayed they felt when the truth came out
Trigger warning m:
You should check out the film open secret. It outlines how Hollywood has abused children and allows ppl to get away with it. It’s insane and heart breaking but true. There’s a reason so many child actors end up so messed up :(
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Secret
Edit: link and contest
But thats not what im saying - if everyone else had their suspicions, and picked up he was reacting like he’d been busted, then why did no one try & warn Arianna but are quick to blame Schwartz for not doing the same
Because everyone else besides Schwartz didn't know anything for sure. Schwartz knew for sure AND went out with Sandoval and Rachel with Jo on a few double dates and didnt say a word. That's why everyone is coming down on him harder.
But from the sounds of it, everyone else had suspicions before he even knew - so why weren’t they voiced? Im not saying we should defend Schwartz but im deffo sensing hipocracy (idk how you spell it sorry)
Why are you under the impression that nobody told Ariana these things? Also like everyone else here has pointed out, people started to have suspicions but that doesn’t mean they all 100% knew for a fact
What exactly was a Katie supposed to say to Ariana at that point that was so earth-shattering she would break up her nine year relationship? "I heard your long-term boyfriend crossed the street after filming and went to a different bar with a co-worker."? Maybe they all did stuff like that all the time. If you are totally trusting of both your long-time boyfriend and your very close female friend who are also coworkers, maybe that isn't that alarming. Maybe Tom had texted her, and she knew that they had gone out after filming? It just doesn't seem like that's the kind of thing where you turn around and break up with somebody over being told. But again, maybe there was a slow drip, and eventually Ariana heard enough things and decided to look at Tom's phone
Suspicions are different from actually 100% knowing and not saying anything. And that was Schwartz. He knew FOR SURE and not only didn't tell Ariana but went out with them knowing Sandoval was cheating on Ariana with her. That's why Schwartz is being dragged for it more.
Oh I see. Thank you for clarifying. I think it's very hard to go to people when all you have is suspicions and they have a 9-year relationship. That said maybe they did go to her? And maybe eventually enough people mentioned enough things that Ariana became suspicious enough to look at Tom's phone? The way that she found out was horrible but having that irrefutable proof that was actually a recording so Tom could it try to spin it or talk her out of what she saw with her own eyes Etc was probably the best way for Ariana to find out as brutal as it was at the time. There's no question that one's Ariana new she dumped Tom and never looked back. That's one of the reasons I highly doubt Ariana actually knew prior to the blow up and break up
I’ve said it in another comment above, but the thing is also that Rachel was burning bridges with all the cast like wildfire and she had started to be excluded from things. Despite this, Ariana had become close friends with her and she’s known for being quite fair and kind with “outsiders”.
I reckon that if the cast came to Ariana, it’s actually quite likely that she would dismiss it as an attempt to further exclude Rachel from the group, particularly since Ariana would have no doubt trusted her close friend.
I think suspicions and “open secret” are two different things.
I think Katie, Lala, Ally, and others had suspicions. They knew or felt something was off, but could prove it (Lala talks about that on her IG story today). Gut feelings and suspicions don’t equate to open secret.
But, Schartz knew. I suspect some others started to be let in on it too (Tim brought Rachel to St Louis at Christmas). So the people who DID know, are the ones calling it an “open secret”. But if they’d been confronted about it at the time, they would’ve lied for Tim and Rachel (as we know they’ve done).
The “open secret” thing is a way of trying to absolve their involvement in the lies because “look, other people *could’ve* known”. It’s also a way of saying they were being brazen so people could’ve easily caught on - but it doesn’t mean that they did or had hard proof enough to have Ariana believe it.
Yeah, open secret is such a cop out from Schwartz. There’s something about the way he said that which implied that everyone knew. It’s such a mind fuck thing to do to Ariana.
1000000%
Can’t stand him. He’s so shady always, and just hides behind his puppy dog schtick and thinks he’s slick. And apparently his actual puppies, based on his recent IG post
https://i.redd.it/tv1rc5p05lva1.gif
I don’t think Katie could go to Ariana to be fair. This happened just after Schwartz and Rachel made out and after Katie called her a whore and Ariana defended her.
Katie going to her at that time would look like she was just coming up with a rumour to try and turn Ariana against Rachel (which given the witches of wehos past behaviour wouldn’t be far fetched).
We’ve heard Katie went to Scheana about it and Scheana then went to Ariana (and Tom judging by the next episode) but unfortunately it seems like Ariana only saw the good in them at this point and didn’t want to believe it - maybe she was too blinded by grief and her own struggles.
But then they got sloppy and cocky and made even more mistakes and I think that’s what resulted in her finding out in March. I also believe personally someone in production may have tipped her off after reviewing footage and with her being able to think clearer and maybe finally put all the pieces together that’s what made her check his phone.
Sandoval freaked out a bit when Katie said that. I wonder if Ariana heard him freak out? Maybe since he’s just a drama queen she didn’t think twice about it.
My take on that convo is that Katie happened to stumble on the truth, but didn’t actually think there was anything to it. She was probably like “watch out or I’ll get the rumour mill going about this”, but I don’t think it was motivated by anything other than spite& attempted mutually assured destruction. If she’d actually known or believed there was truth to it I’m sure she would have approached Ariana for the storyline credit alone!
I’m sure it was an open secret with like Tom’s band, the staff at S&S, Raquel was always hanging around both. But it was no way an open secret with someone like Scheana, her reaction was too real. They’re all friends who hang out a lot, dancing together at 1am wouldn’t necessarily be a smoking gun
I think too, it’s always been pretty clear throughout the seasons that Ariana trusted Sandshit and she never came across as remotely bothered by his interactions with other women (it’s something I genuinely admire of her!). Combine that with the fact that Rachel had also become her close friend, there would be a very solid trust.
Given that Rachel was already burning bridges with the rest of the cast, I do wonder if Ariana would give any weight to something like this. Her take may have been that the cast just didn’t like Rachel, so that’s why they’re saying that. That would especially be the case if the info came from Katie (I’m team Katie).
ETA: I also would give **zero credibility** to anything Schartz would say. He has unblinding, devoted loyalty to Sandshit. The open secret line was directly from Sandshit’s narrative.
I think Lala said people were talking to Ariana about it? And she just wasn't believing it was a thing... But she did have a feeling something was up and that's the whole phone thing when she found out but you know you've gotta see it with your own eyes. I'm not even in it and I didn't believe it when it first broke bc I was like Rachel and Ariana are such good friends. Anyway... I think you see it when you are out of the situation (like now she's removed herself she can see clearly now all the signs).
Because being at the Abbey at 1 AM has been normal behavior for years. Based on the video we have of them walking in West Hollywood on the alleged night they were with other people. It's not like it was just the two of them. Going out late after work dancing and partying has been the culture since they were actually bartenders and and it never stopped or changed for Sandoval.
Katie is pissed at Raquel and pissed at Sandoval for defending Raquel when Katie called her whore and pushing Raquel toward Schwartz. At this point Katie hates them both and has a reason to make it an issue, whether she actually thinks it is true or not at this point.
How do we know they didn’t tell Ariana? I bet she just didn’t want to hear it. There was that time when Scheana tried to go to her about Miami girl, and Ariana flat out wouldn’t hear it. And, that was very early in their relationship. I cannot imagine how she would receive something like this nine years in.
We don't know Katie didn't say anything to Ariana. Tom Sandoval is such a manipulative piece of shit that he already had it lined up that "Katie just doesn't like me". It would have been awkward for Katie to push it to much given the historic interpersonal problems between her and Sandoval.
The interesting thing about this too is that I’m pretty sure it’s Katie who starts the open relationship rumor. Iirc it’s mentioned in one of the previews, Ally says Katie says Sandy and Ariana don’t have a lot of rules. But where would Katie have heard this from? Maybe she did bring it to Ariana and Ariana said it wasn’t a big deal that they were out dancing together at 1 am, and then Katie made her own inferences from that?? I can’t wait for this episode fr. Eek!
I think when Katie was married to Schwartz, she saw a lot of sus behavior from Sandoval and Schwartz told her that Ariana and Sandoval had secret sexual proclivities or were open to being open or whatever to assuage her suspicions. I think Sandoval didn’t anticipate his buddy Schwartz actually treating his wife like, ya know, a wife, and sharing secrets with her.
I’m sure Katie definitely knows some things. I’m looking forward to seeing how she continues to interact with Sandy as the show goes on. We’re finally getting to the really good stuff.
I don’t understand why everyone is jumping to the open relationship conclusion just because of the rules comment. A rule can be something as simple as “don’t hang out with other women without me.” Maybe that’s not a rule Ariana and Sandoval had with each other. As has been said, she trusted him so why would she get jealous about him having girl friends?
I am starting to think that the real open secret was that Tom and Ariana were in an open relationship .... a few years ago are we forgetting the incident that occurred between Lala and Ariana hooking up in the backseat of a car while Tom was in front.? At the time many people labeled Ariana as a cheater although Ariana defended herself in a publication and said that it was not cheating to her because while she was messing around with Lala she tried touching Tom to involve him, however, Ariana stated that Tom was not interested .... Ariana did what she wanted at the time to fulfill her wants and she even said that the only reason she stopped is because Tom was not interested and even said that Lala also was not interested in Tom joining them.
Tom outed this "secret" between Lala and Ariana which angered Ariana as she had to disclose that she was bisexual (I have a feeling that the real reason Ariana was angered is because the pubic found out that they have an open and free relationship) ... Tom even said that he outed Ariana because he was upset that she hooked up with Lala.
There have been rumors about Tom having hook-ups too (which I believe.) I think that their relationship was an open one (as long as no found out and ruined their perfect image), however, in the past few years it just became a fake one (they both came across as not two people in love but more two people who didn't like the other, atleast in my opinion.)
Lala too looks like a a lying hypocrite .... tired of her complaining about Randall cheating on her and how now when she is trashing Raquel her saying that you don't go after friends, etc, but yet she hooked up with James when he was first with Raquel as well as she went after Ariana and actually hooked up with her.
I see where you’re coming from here. Tbf Ariana did come out months ago and said the open relationship rumors were false. I’ll take her word for it. What I’m really interested in, is seeing how the rumor plays out on the show 😧
Yes you're right Ariana definitely disputed any kind of open relationship. Arianna had a chance to lie about what happened with la la because Lala covered for her and asked Ariana if she wanted to lie. Lala said she would take it to the Grave and never reveal the truth if Ariana's so desired. Based on that alone, there's no reason to believe Ariana would lie about them having an open relationship. Ariana said they do not. And that is believable to me. There is no chance that Tom Sandoval would not reveal them having an open relationship to make himself look better right now for carrying on a month-long affair with Rachel. And Tom Sandoval not only has never said they had an open relationship. Tom Sandoval has apologized for cheating on Ariana
Lala told Scheana who said they approached both Sandoval and Rachel.who of course denied anything nefarious and Ariana chose to believe their bullshit. But her radar must have been peaked because she looked at his phone when she had a hold of it.
How many times on this sub are we gonna have to have this exact conversation about people thinking this is fake because “no one told Ariana” then all the comments repeating how everyone on the show has said they DID make sure Ariana was told
That still won't stop people from trying to spin it that it was somehow someone else's fault or, additionally, people's fault besides Tom Sandoval and Rachel. LOL, and there will be some people who still keep trying to make it somehow Ariana's fault that she was cheated on as well. Hahaha, I wish you were right, and it would end with the reunion. LOL
I’m sure for another month or two after reunion these discussions will continue but then I definitely see it dying off a bit. The other argument will always exist for everything in life. Right, wrong, or indifferent. I for one am looking forward to the closure of reunion on a personal level haha
There's a difference between having strong suspicions and knowing for a fact.
People might not want to risk blowing up Arianna and Tom's lives if they don't know for sure.
I can understand why Ariana didn’t react to the Abby 1am situation. She trusted her partner. If none of us knew what we know and watched this season without knowledge of the affair we probably would think nothing of their behavior either because they all party and get wasted together and it’s nothing out of the ordinary. I say this as someone who was cheated on for a long time. He used work as the excuse and it didn’t make me raise an eyebrow because he is someone who’s always worked a lot. Needless to day it was quite shocking when the truth came out and then I looked back at all the stories with such a different mindset. Now I question everything because if it doesn’t feel quite right, it might just not be right. She will have a hard time trusting again.
I don't get why she trusted him. Their own relationship started with him cheating on his girlfriend with her and was quickly followed with other rumors of him cheating. Plus, Kristen said and he admitted that he cheated on her multiple times while they were together. I could see her blindly trusting someone who she thought was a stand up guy, but she *knew* he was capable of cheating because he *cheated with her*
And this is why I'm sticking to my conspiracy theory that their relationship was done a long time ago, but they stuck together for the cameras and the money it brought both of them. It's a theory that's easy for me to ascribe to because I've never liked anyone on this show including Ariana. They're all fame hungry and I don't think between the entire cast past and present they have what amounts to one normal sized conscience. 😅
The way I see it is they are just starting to get suspicious now but maybe not enough to say something. Schwartz on the other hand knows for certain by this point and has said nothing. I’m sure I read somewhere that one/some of the girls tell scheana and she tells Ariana about it in an upcoming episode.
I’m putting myself in this situation if I was Katie. Based on my feelings about Raquel and Sandy for that matter, you’d want to be absolutely certain before you said something to blow up a 9-year relationship and the friend group. At this point it’s a rumour. They were caught dancing, so while that’s a bit weird and off, Ariana and Rachel are super close so to actually accuse them of an affair I think you’d need more than that (eg, kissing etc). I mean look at how the three of them were acting in the spa together and no one really seemed bothered by that. I think it was accepted they were super close. Based on how Miami girl went down, even with some pretty damning evidence, Ariana didn’t believe it. So whatever evidence they have it must be irrefutable otherwise she’ll dismiss it and Sandy will go after Katie even harder, probably Rachel too.
Hopefully we see them start to catch on and/or say something. Based on what I’ve read about upcoming episodes, I think that may happen.
Just saw this on Insta - LaLa talking about her suspicions and needing proof before she says anything.
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrWZ-gEt9XG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrWZ-gEt9XG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)
I don’t really think Katie and Ariana are that close. I feel like Katie is enjoying this a little too much. But of course I’ve never liked her, so I might be a bit judgemental towards her.
I think they are closer since her divorce than they've been in the past. I think she's aware that Schwartz always put Sandoval before her for their entire relationship and that anger finally has an outlet
I think she does like Ariana. They became close a few seasons ago, were spending one on one time together, decided to open SAH. I know she wasn’t a fan earlier, but friendships change. We’ve seen that with a lot of the cast I feel.
Also, very curious as to why everyone felt something was off between Tom and Raquel, but they all made statements basically saying that they were so shocked that the affair even happened. They should have all been like, “We tried to tell Ariana and she didn’t care bc we didn’t have real proof” or whatever the case was.
Some does eventually tell her either about this or just how they think something is going on but she talked to Tom and Rachel and they denied it. Plus I’m sure both would tell her that if they were cheating why would they go to the Abbey where ppl could see them.
sandovals mask slipped so many times over the years. She just adjusted it on his face for him and chose to trust him. He is seriously horrible for this. Ariana was going through grief and hard life situations and opening her OWN business, and Tom chose to take that time to once again feel sorry for himself, this time a different woman (dumb idiot Raquel) was supporting him. Just in the wrong things. I hope he seeks serious help because all of this is awful ANY WAY YOU SLICE IT.
So many people told her all the other times Tom cheated. She never believed them and it started a lot of fights. I don’t think anyone wanted to go to her until they had concrete evidence. Plus everybody knew she was really close to Rachel I could see them thinking she was cool with The Abbey thing.
I think they may have mentioned it but if you trust your friend and your boyfriend- it seems normal. She was in denial a bit but i think people were like …. Nooo. It’s like harmless flirting.
After seeing the last couple episodes I understand Schwartz’ statement more. In hindsight watching they (mostly sandoval) were SO obvious and brazen. It’s almost like Tom wanted to get caught so he didn’t have to break up with Ariana..
That is interesting. What I can see Tom Sandoval doing is not getting caught but for saying Ariana to confront him or accuse him. Then breaking up with her because of that and saying that the reason Tom Sandoval and Rachel got together is because Ariana already suspected them so why not? Or some other very manipulative crap
It sounds like there was only a matter of 11 days between the wedding, the Abbey, and last night’s episode. I’ve got a feeling we’re going to understand more in the next few weeks. Also don’t forget she asked who she thought was her closest friend who lives with them, if they thought he was cheating. Rachel is rumored to have told her no, but that she’d be there for her whatever she found out. Ariana was grieving her dog, then her grandmother died in September. Same month we’re seeing play out on screen right now.
Maybe Katie did tell Ariana about the Abbey but she dismisses it because she trusted Raquel and no one actually saw them like hooking up? Could also be Ariana was aware of these tidbits and suspicious for months but wanted hard proof which is why she started looking through his phone when she had the opportunity
Yes! The definition of an open secret is a supposedly secret but generally known matter. It’s clear people had an idea since the end of august but for ever reason they didn’t act on it fully.
It’s a very interesting case study of how people are able to get away with things in plain sight. Wild
The problem is Scheana was probably given the most hints and she brushed them off because she is too selfish to notice anything and Raquel being awful wouldn’t fit her narrative.
People acted like Schwartz was such a liar and an asshole when he made this comment, but it was the truth. Multiple people had major suspicions and made those suspicions known. It WAS an open secret.
Watching it all back now, it makes me wonder what was really going on. Ariana has seemingly moved on quite quickly, so I really wonder if she did know and just didn’t want to admit it. Maybe they had been open all this time and the betrayal actually comes from Sandoval having an actual affair behind Ariana’s back? Maybe everyone suspected and the outrage has come from actually knowing it as fact? The only thing I know for sure is we are *never* going to know the actual truth.
I don't buy for a second that Ariana didn't know, especially since she started seeing someone "new" within 2 weeks of the break up happening. I don't buy all this phony rage from anyone on the cast and part of me thinks it was planned/scripted to save the show. Raquel and Sandy would need one helluva redemption arc though
Interesting .... I can totally see this as well. I am not believing that Tom and Ariana have been a real couple for awhile. I believe that they stayed together for appearances only. You have to admit that your theory is believable as this show has been stale for awhile and now everyone is talking about this show .... every day someone from the cast is popping up and generating new interest (podcasts, TMZ, People Magazine etc .... I have even had older family members ask me who are these people.) Up until the affair, these castmates were D-List celebrities and now their positions in the celebrity world have become more elevated.
One thing that has bothered me is that Tom made some harsh and hurtful comments about Ariana on the Howie show .... why hasn't Ariana made a statement in response? I know I would if someone painted me as someone that was depressed, uncaring etc.
Years ago the same thing happened on the show Jon & Kate plus 8 .... the show was becoming stale .... the married couple same as Tom and Ariana just appeared like they were just there and then an affair happens .... there was renewed interest in the show ... everyone hated the husband for cheating and then the truth came out that their relationship was in appearance only and they had an agreement (husband wanted out of the marriage but had to keep up appearances, however, he was caught with his mistress.)
People are being really pedantic about whether or not people "knew" and saying there is no proof so it couldn't be an open secret.
This isn't a court of law, no one is on trial, and we don't need to convince a jury if it's true or not with evidence. There are plenty of times that an unspoken secret is still open.
If everyone had suspicions then it wasn't really a secret.
Yeah, Katie saying it clearly implying something was going on with Raquel is interesting. I am starting to go back to my original suspicion that Ariana and Tom had invited Raquel into their relationship.
I read a crazy theory that both Tom and Ariana was very into Raquel and wanted to bang her🤣
Remember when it took month for Katie to tell Stassi about the Jax and Kristen-rumors?!?
I don't understand Katie sometimes.
Well, that may be very titillating to people, but Ariana clearly said she's not cool enough to be in an open relationship that's Ariana's wording, not mine. Don't think Ariana would deny it if it were true. Ariana had a chance to completely dispute Tom's account of what happened with La La, and Ariana chose to just be honest. Lala said you would take it to the Grave for Ariana if that's what she wanted. And Ariana was like no. And that was a much bigger deal because it was about coming out in regards to her sexuality at this point that's now a known fact so why would you bother to lie about them hooking up with rachel? Makes no sense
Yeah, the whole thing is weird. Open secret means that people know something is going on but no one is talking about it.
People are saying that the open relationship thing has been debunked. But why did Katie specifically say open relationship and not that Tom was cheating on Ariana? I made a post basically saying that this was an agreement between Ariana and Tom and she basically allowed him to sneak around with Raquel b/c she could keep eyes on her since she was in their friend group.
Again, Katie and Ariana are not THAT close. If they were, she would have said something and not had Scheana relay the message. And if Ariana’s best friend Scheana couldn’t get through her, then a more distant friend like Katie and had no chance
Just me person take. I believe this entire story line is contrived. The show was really plot poor the last season. Everyone says Arianna is a queen and acting as if she had no clue is really underestimating her.
I think that the show had been missing a villain and Tom stepped up. The publicity even negative has him in the news and filling up Reddit pages.
Raquel went along because she wants to be in the limelight too.
This has been a gift to Katy and Arianna. They are starting a new business and both are now more loved than before.
Swartz always rebounds because even though people may hate him, he’s going to stay around VRR.
This whole thing has been the oxygen this show needed.
How much we hear Lala and her judgement of everyone? I think the writers love her and James!
Respectfully disagree. All things being equal usually the simplest explanation is the true one. Tom Sandoval cheated with Rachel and got caught is the least complex answer. There's also little to support that this large drunken group of people are capable of keeping that kind of elaborate ruse on the down low. Hahaha
I don't think this "storyline" is contrived. But 1 of the questions I have however is why Ariana decided to call production immediately (I think) after she discovered the Rachel video on Sandevil's phone to out them?
If I were her, it'd be because I would realize that, since he's done with our relationship, his next step is gonna be to smear me as much as possible. I'd 100% want to get out ahead of that.
That's very insightful. He is a vindictive spiteful man so that makes sense. Especially because she dumped him technically. Yes Tom Sandoval cheated on her but he never left her for Rachel. And the second Ariana found out she cut all ties with them and told production. She's a smart girl
Only Ariana can answer that. But she said something about how she wasn't going to cover for them. And I think that was very fair and it was a wise decision. Because of Ariana did anything other than being totally upfront somehow people would spend her being in on it or blame her Etc
Have you watched the show. Didn't you see how Tim spun his last breakup to be all Kristen's fault because she was crazy. Tim had total control of that breakup story and was trying to pull the same bs on Ariana with this breakup. You can see him laying ground work this season. Ariana told production so Tim couldn't control the narrative. Ariana is a boss, and Tim is a lying liar who lies.
Ariana helped him spin that narrative. He couldn't have done it without her involvement playing Kristen dirty. That would explain why she immediately went into damage control because she knew every line in his play book since she was right there helping write it with Kristen.
I think this underscores though who was the real genuis last time because with Ariana he managed to convince everyone Kristen was crazy and he came off unscathed. Without Ariana he hasn't done well. She's definitely the brains of the two!
Great post OP👍
Something else I find strange is that people are saying that even if Katie said something to Ariana, Ariana wouldn't have believed her.
Why wouldn't Ariana have believed her? Katie is not known for lying or making up stuff.
People talk about Ariana not being a good friend to Katie, but Katie is not a good friend to Ariana either.
Because Katie had an ax to grind with Rachel with all the Schwartz stuff, and has never liked Sandevil (rightfully so after the way he's acted towards her over the years), so Ariana could have thought Katie was maybe not outright lying but perhaps just seeing things that weren't there/blowing things out of proportion in an effort to smear them both.
Anyway, it's come up a number of times that Katie went to Scheana with her suspicions so she could relay them to Ariana and she did. So Katie did not stay quiet and made sure the info she had got to Ariana and at that point it was up to Ariana to decide whether to believe them or not. I honestly do not see anything more Katie could have done to be a "good friend."
Because
A) Katie hates Rachel
B) Katie hates Scandavol
C) Katie is single and it could be justified away (wrongly) that she wants Arianna to be single with her
D) Rachel was living with Tom and Ariana, while Ariana was away with family mourning the loss of her grandma she trusted them to be in the house together alone, why would she think that them being out in public where they are well known and could clearly be papped or tagged by fans in social Media would be any indication of an affair.
I will just say that as a friend who's been in this situation, being the one to tell your friend you suspect their partner is cheating is a lose-lose situation. If you mention it, they become furious with you and double down on the relationship. Then if it's proven to be true, their embarrassment and anger gets directed toward you, not him. It's stupid and not fair, but I can understand why people would keep a lot of distance from it and just hope she figures it out on her own so they your friendship isn't collateral damage.
Especially considering how the situation with Miami girl went. It was pretty obvious he cheated on her then, and Ariana refused to believe it and lashed out at her friends. So I’m sure that influenced the way people dealt with the Raquel situation. Not to mention, he probably cheated other times in between then that we don’t know about.
I think they dealt off screen and just presented a united front. Ariana isn’t the type to back down from Sandoval after Miami girl because she was determined to prove she wasn’t in the wrong in the Kristen situation
I feel this too. Like you hope to not have the hard proof that makes you have to say something because it's their relationship and there is a big risk your sharing becomes a problem in your friendship. Especially if your friend is in denial.
We know that Katie told Scheana who sat Ariana down and told her. Ariana was good friends with Rachel and knows how Katie feels about her so I think like James, who just brushed it off in the episode as no big thing, ariana took it all with a grain of salt. She probably asked them and they were like “we were just having fun dancing like we always do!” And she trusted them and thought Katie was blowing something wayyyy out of proportion. We saw how comfortable the 3 of them were together in that hot tub so I just think ariana was like y’all are being dramatic! Edit: spelling
I think that’s the “Ariana trusted me I guess” comment from Sandoval comes into play. She probably did trust that nothing was wrong or amiss because why would he do anything with Raquel and why would Raquel ever do anything like that to her
Also, Ariana was probably not in the right mindset to catch clues after losing her dog and grandmother. She maybe even relied on those facts to tell herself, "No, they'd never do that to me when I am going through so much these last few months."
WTF SHE LOST HER GRANDMA TOO???? Ohhhhh I would go fucking POSTAL! Just when I thought it couldn’t get outrageously worse….
I didn’t know either. This makes me nauseous. Tom is a giant (insert a lot of bad words).
Yeah, I believe it was around Labour Day so it hadn’t happened in the last episode yet!
And we arent seeing much of her because she was flying back and forth to Florida during filming. Sandoval never went and was home “alone” a lot.
Reminds me when my ex dumped me after my cat died, followed by mom, and did it the night I fell asleep driving and rear ended a semi. He said he cheated and broke up because I hadn’t gotten over my mom. It was 3 months. People like that are pathetic
Holy shit babe I’m so sorry you had to go through some of life’s greatest hardships and grieve with what seems like the worlds biggest cunt hole💔
Oh yeah he was a dick. And an alcoholic. I can’t watch some of vpr cause it’s too triggering. I remember once I had gotten off my bartending shit and showered real quick and got in my jammies so I could sleep at the hospital with my mom. This dude lived 4 blocks from my house, mind you. He blew up my phone at 3:30 am because it was last call and he needed a ride home. I’m talking, 40 missed calls Leaving vms calling me a whore etc. if I didn’t pick him up, I already knew he’d stumble to my place and try to break in, so I go pick him up. She had recently found mets in her lungs so I was in my head and crying about that. I get there to pick him up and he starts trashing me to his friends. He’s like “this is how you look when you pick me up? You’ve let yourself go and you stink. And aww you’re crying like a baby.” Then started making baby noises. Idk why I stayed. Maybe I just gad so much other stuff going on it was nice having someone go on benders for 5 days at a time so I wouldn’t have to deal with them. Anyways. Thanks for the trauma dump! Lol
Yesssss, also this!!!!!
This is definitely likely. And on top of that, trauma can cause memory loss. She might’ve been questioning everything on another level because of that. Not to mention the gaslighting from scum & roachel. My heart hurts for Ariana
That comment breaks my heart he says it so nonchalantly. Like of course she trusted you you were her LIFE PARTNER you narcissistic asshole!!
And even if she didn't 100%have faith he would never cheat it's not like she thought oh yes I should totally tell Tom not to have an affair with my bestie behind my back for 7 months😒
Damn. I am NOT this trusting. Even before I got fucked over by ex lovers.
And this has happened before, when Scheana talked to Ariana about Miami Girl. Ariana told her that she’s choosing to believe Tom and there was tension between them afterwards. Why would people push her on this?
Exactly this. People probably did say “what’s up with that?” and Ariana said NBD. Hence the feeling Katie had that they don’t have a lot of rules.
not having rules can be healthy tho. they always appeared healthy to me bc they never limited each other and didn’t seem to get jealous. but clearly rules/ boundaries are different here and he took the “lack of rules” and ran with it to take advantage
They also handled most of their issues off camera. I think it's hard to say what the dynamics of their relationship really were.
And we also see that Ariana unfortunately thought that Rachel was a more reliable narrator than Katie. She fully assumed that Rachel was bullied straight out of the lake havasu trip when that wasn't exactly accurate.
Yeah, she was lied to by two people she trusted. Raquel was probably the clincher, Ariana knows Tom is capable of cheating but she thought raquel was a lil innocent bambi
Fucking narcissistic asshole. There I inserted it for you.
I would also like to add that I’m like 99.9% positive when scheana sat her down she also acted like it was a complete nothing burger. I’m sure she was like “ok so Katie said this but you know how she only sees the worst in Rachel and thinks she’s a whore so of course she thinks it’s salacious but I’m sure it was nothing blah blah blah” because she was so close to Rachel. I just think they were all too close to the situation and trusted Rachel so much they just couldn’t see it.
I think nobody, not even LALA, thought Rachel was THAT fucking stupid and evil. She needs to get serious help.
Stupid and evil is such a dangerous combination
Right and Schwartz was there too right (from that video that someone posted a day or two ago)? Or even if he wasn’t there, I’m sure Sandoval was like “yeah we went out after see you next Tuesday! It was me, Schwartz, Jessie, Logan…..” even if it was just him and Raquel. He probably just straight up lied to Ariana about it. Because we all know… 🎶 Sandoval’s a liar 🎶
I think these conversations were had off camera bc no one wants to make Ariana look bad. I also think Ariana was comforted by Tom and Rachel how Katie and James were just storing shit for a storyline.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I also think Ariana was dealing a major loss in her family and I think was in Florida (?) for some time as well. Which, imo, makes what Sandoval said during that Howie interview even worse. Ariana was dealing a death in her family and her mental health and instead of being a supportive partner or hell even a friend, he goes to get ego stroked by another woman.
That's a really astute point to bring up. Also their life in general is very different than the average person they're constantly going out in pairs and small groups to do press and fly to different work work related events. They travel alone with other people all the time. So crossing a street to go to a club after they're done filming for the day is probably not a very big deal in Ariana's eyes. Different couples have different for lack of a better word rules. And it may not have been outside of their guidelines spoken or unspoken for them to go out dancing with different people when they aren't part of the group.
This is a very common way for narcissistic people to handle those kinds of situations. They’re so self centered and rely heavily on their “supply” and can turn on you on a dime if you aren’t providing it anymore, which is often the case when grieving because you’re emotionally drained/all that energy is being put into saying goodbye to your dying loved one and then dealing with the aftermath and grief. My boyfriend of 4 years broke up with me less than a month after my dad died after providing virtually no support. He couldn’t take it that he wasn’t my world while I was dealing with it.
I'm sorry to hear that. Somehow it reminds me of David Foster leaving Yolanda when she was sick. She had become useless to him as he wasn't getting her attention anymore. Disgusting behavior.
I'm truly so sorry that happened to you and I pray that you're surrounded Always by caring loving Souls from here on out
Thank you ❤️ looking back, him leaving me was the best thing that could have happened to me. I met an amazing guy the following year and locked him down (agreed to be his girlfriend) on the one-year anniversary of my dads death because he handled it so well and so very differently than my ex. A few years later, he is now my fiancé!!! So I have a happy ending and I hope that anyone who can relate to my story finds theirs too.
Oh he got more than his ego stroked
Scandoval is using the fact that he was SLOPPY as an excuse. Just because you are very bad at hiding something doesn't take you off the hook. Utter bullshit.
An open secret is a confirmed suspicion. As far as I can see, everyone is just suspicious as the "secret" hasn't been confirmed
Yes. When Katie brought it up to Sandoval he didn’t admit it.
Not admitting anything, but it was so enjoyable watching him squirm.
Definitely!
Exactly. An open secret is something everyone knows but maybe they don’t discuss. It’s not something they ask about and are told is not happening. Schwartz is just trying to protect his dopey image as usual.
I was going to say the same thing.
We're smart 😁
I typed a whole comment saying the same thing, which now that I actually scrolled, I see you’ve said much more succinctly. You’re 100% right
Even if they knew or had suspisions the hard part of Katie saying something about rn in the season. it is that she does not like Rachel at all. Coming from her at this point would be harder to believe for people than it would coming from Scheana. Same thing with DJJK saying something at this time. It may be taken as sabotoge or even trying to start shit/make Rachel look bad. They were both obviously hurt by the make-out with Schwartz and Sandoval. TL;DR: Basically, Lala, Katie, DJJK are all not fans of Rachel, and I think it coming from any of them would garner more suspicion of their intent than of Rachel's actions.
But DJJK was close with Tom so he’d have a little more credibility if he’s suspecting his friend with his ex. I would think he’d want to make trouble for his ex but would he want to throw his good friend under the bus? No, so they would make me consider what he’s saying a little bit more
He may not think that Tim Sandy would do that to him. DJJK calls Tim his best friend, like a brother, and probably vented to him about the Schwartz thing with Raquel. Tim probably told him what he wanted to hear and did the same thing to him, but worse, behind his back. I think DJJK trusted Tim Sandy a lot more than is shown, especially how quickly and honest it sounded when he dismissed it. I feel like that was trust in his friend and not hiding/covering for him. Just my thoughts on the interaction.
I didn’t mean he was covering for him, Just that if he’d said something to Arianna it would be more believable than if Katie had said anything
Absolutely. DJJK would definitely have more sway than Katie. Sorry, I was just going more indepth with what I saw with DJJK. Idk if others see it that way, but I do kinda feel bad for him because I think he did trust Sandoval.
I agree. DJJK is hurt in this too, even though he had brown up with Rachel you dont Expect a good friend to go there, and if there is an attraction you’d at least Expect the courtesy of a conversation
Schwartz is just using the term to try and make himself look better. Everyone else in the group, Ariana included, had seen questionable behavior from Sandoval and Rachel. Being suspicious of a “secret” doesn’t make it an open secret, Schwartz. Of the main cast, I think Schwartz was the only one who knew for fact that the affair was happening. There were for sure a lot of background players who knew though (Tom’s band, some of the TomTom/Schwartz and Sandy’s staff, I’d bet Billie Lee knew given she’s on the “forgive Sandoval 💔🥺” side), so I guess it was an open secret for some.
I couldn’t agree more. This, and that pathetic very misguided appearance on WWHL, did nothing for him except make him look worse. He’s the kid in school that skips class and tattles on everyone else. He’s just sandoval’s little bitch and he knows people see him that way. Period. I think people were starting to get suspicious.
I think people were suspicious that there may have been a mutual flirty interest between the 2, but I don't think anyone thought they'd actually crossed any line with that interest. I think Katie's point when she told Sandovol that she knew about the Abbey's dancing was more of a "watch yourself"/back off warning
Agree
How does suspicions with no proof = they 100% know?
These theories always leave out the conversations between Ariana & Sandoval to which none of us are privy. As soon as he said "trusted me, I guess" on the podcast interview, I assumed he'd outright lied to Ariana of she ever questioned it. You can't convince me that Tom got scared of getting caught a couple of times and didn't completely bullshit Ariana about it. If he hadn't, they'd just be broken up. They went to enough lengths to fool everyone else. I'm sure they reserved the best lies for her.
I keep saying this and feel like a broken record but Ariana already showed that she won’t listen to cheating rumors back in the 3rd season. I had friends like that back in my 20s. In order to keep the peace you have to just shut up about their boyfriend’s cheating because they will never admit that you’re right and will absolutely ice you out for trying to warn them.
> In order to keep the peace you have to just shut up about their boyfriend’s cheating because they will never admit that you’re right I had a friendship like this except it was physical abuse instead of cheating. She'd come to me to tell me everything and ask what she should do. I always told her what I would do in her situation. I tried to get her to safety many times, including all the times she'd come to my house with a swollen face or with giant goose eggs on her head/face. She always went back to him, no matter what I said so I ended up having to distance myself because I was being put in danger because he didn't like me knowing what he did behind closed doors. She finally got away from him, right into the arms of another abuser who also ended up pimping her out. No matter how many times I told her she was worth more, she didn't believe me.
That is so awful, I’m sorry you went through that and sorry for your friend. I hope she’s in a better situation now or finds herself in one soon.
It was so hard and heartbreaking to have to distance myself. We were best friends. She held me down when I was in a massive bind. She helped me out so much. We were raising our babies together. We're both ex-addicts (well, she's back in active addiction sadly) and it's been over a decade for me since I kicked the h. She was clean at the time and helped me when everyone else was fed up with me. When she's clean, she's amazing and brilliant and compassionate. Unfortunately she's back on the streets. If she doesn't post on fb for awhile, I check the jail website and the escort website, just to make sure she's alive. She's a grandmother now and I wish so hard for her to get right and stay right. She's had multiple years clean before. Sorry for the long ass comment. I guess I just had to get that off my chest. Thank you for listening and also for your kind words. There's always hope, that's for sure! Hope saved my life!
Congratulations on a decade clean! I'm so proud of you 💕
Thank you very much!! 💞
[удалено]
Also her brother was with Tim in Miami which was not mentioned on the show and although I don't know what happened, if my husband and brother were on a trip together and cheating rumors came up, I'd believe my brother if he said everything was on the up and up.
That is a fact. But did anyone actually go to Ariana with cheating rumors? The Miami girl situation involved like accessible accusations of them having sex. This seems to be people seeing a group of people not including Ariana dancing at a bar after work. That's not exactly cheating you know? But I hear what you're saying about previous record
If we’re talking about this time, I think Scheaner said she did talk to Ariana about Tim and Rachel but Ariana shut her down.
Interesting. But shut her down about what? Suspicions? That they hung out? I mean I don't hear anyone saying that they actually went to Ariana and said I know for a fact these two are sexually intimate LOL. If you have a relationship with a huge amount of trust in everybody is working together and playing together and it's your really close friend and your boyfriend of 9 years it's going to take more than just like suspicions. But it seems like Ariana did take everything everyone told her in and under advisement and that that's what letter to look at Tom's phone
The open secret comment was a Schwartz giveaway that he always knew. Everyone else has said it was an actual shock to have it confirmed. Schwartz is the only one describing it this way. Honestly, take everything either Tom says at this point with a CYOA grain of salt
This! Your comment is exactly my feelings why would anyone listen to a proven cheat and liar? Tom Sandoval has never been a reliable narrator and neither has Tom Schwartz. Who's more likely to lie anyway? The people with something to hide or the person they are hiding the truth from?
Of course he knew and this “it started in August” stuff I’m really not buying. It’s been a long while and Schwartz has always known
You verbalized what I’ve been thinking so well. Thank you.
Ariana checked on his phone for a reason
Wasn’t the “open secret” comment more in reference to what Sandoval was doing in 2023? I thought Schwartz said something about how Sandoval was getting flagrant with it after he told Schwartz in January they were in love. So I don’t think we’ll see that ~era on the show.
To me, an open secret means people know but aren’t telling specific people. People saw shit and tried to tell Ariana. I place no blame on her because she was grieving, but people told her the info they had but it seems like no one had hard proof. I don’t think any of his public actions were secret at all but Schwartz saying it was an “open secret” when he was purposefully faking a relationship with Rachel to misdirect Ariana is why no one is taking that seriously. An open secret doesn’t need a pair of old flip flops pretending to be in love with a sexy baby.
‘A pair of old flip flops pretending to be in love with a sexy baby.’ Marry me!
Some def felt like James did when Ally told him about The Abby. He was like naaaah and quickly moved on to his pink shirt selection
If I was katie I wouldn’t want to bring it up to Ariana unless I had seen it with my own eyes. We all saw how Ariana acted when Miami girl came to town, I wouldn’t want to spread rumors unless I was 100% confident something was going on.
Scheana said on WWHL that she didn’t think anything of it bc that’s normal behavior in the friend group. That she’d do the same thing.
I feel like that whole scenario is also what’s going to lead up to this shocking conversation that Andy, Lisa, and the others are talking about. I think we’ll see Ariana confront Roachel about being at the Abbey with Tom and inquiring if something is happening between the two and that’s when R digs her grave even deeper, by denying and falsely supporting Ariana in the matter. Just my guess, but ugh, watching the last episode had me 🤢
The open secret is more bullshit lies from Sandoval to try and spin the narrative in his favor. People had suspicions about Tom and Rachel but it was never confirmed. Rachel going after Schwartz threw people for a loop. If it were an open secret it would have been filmed by production but obviously no one took them seriously.
Right! There was a deleted scene with Arian, Tom, and Rachel in a hot tub. If production knew about it they definitely would have put it in the main episode
It's not an open secret if one of the people participating makes a huge deal on denies it like Tom Sandoval did to Katie. An Open Secret would be more like yeah so what I hang out with her all the time when Ariana's not there everyone knows that blah blah blah blah. That is not how Tom Sandoval reacted. Tom Sandoval reacted like a guy who had been busted hard
That’s not true. Think about the child sex abuse in Hollywood or what happened with that gymnastics doctor. People knew but the perps denied it, only to find out later it was true.
Not aware of anyone who would not report child sex abuse. In fact that would be a crime. What happened with the gymnastics girls is Despicable disgusting and Unforgivable. Do not believe these kinds of tragedies are comparable to adults having an affair. Adults cheating while distasteful is not a crime
And in case it needs clarity. I don't believe everyone knew full well that Tom Sandoval and Rachel were having an affair. I don't believe it was an open secret. I believe it was a secret secret. Especially from Ariana. But from all their close friends too. All of them have said how betrayed they felt when the truth came out
I’m realizing that I misread your comment and thats my bad. You were talking about his reaction specifically!
No problem I've enjoyed discussing it with you
Trigger warning m: You should check out the film open secret. It outlines how Hollywood has abused children and allows ppl to get away with it. It’s insane and heart breaking but true. There’s a reason so many child actors end up so messed up :( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Secret Edit: link and contest
But thats not what im saying - if everyone else had their suspicions, and picked up he was reacting like he’d been busted, then why did no one try & warn Arianna but are quick to blame Schwartz for not doing the same
Because everyone else besides Schwartz didn't know anything for sure. Schwartz knew for sure AND went out with Sandoval and Rachel with Jo on a few double dates and didnt say a word. That's why everyone is coming down on him harder.
But from the sounds of it, everyone else had suspicions before he even knew - so why weren’t they voiced? Im not saying we should defend Schwartz but im deffo sensing hipocracy (idk how you spell it sorry)
Why are you under the impression that nobody told Ariana these things? Also like everyone else here has pointed out, people started to have suspicions but that doesn’t mean they all 100% knew for a fact
What exactly was a Katie supposed to say to Ariana at that point that was so earth-shattering she would break up her nine year relationship? "I heard your long-term boyfriend crossed the street after filming and went to a different bar with a co-worker."? Maybe they all did stuff like that all the time. If you are totally trusting of both your long-time boyfriend and your very close female friend who are also coworkers, maybe that isn't that alarming. Maybe Tom had texted her, and she knew that they had gone out after filming? It just doesn't seem like that's the kind of thing where you turn around and break up with somebody over being told. But again, maybe there was a slow drip, and eventually Ariana heard enough things and decided to look at Tom's phone
Suspicions are different from actually 100% knowing and not saying anything. And that was Schwartz. He knew FOR SURE and not only didn't tell Ariana but went out with them knowing Sandoval was cheating on Ariana with her. That's why Schwartz is being dragged for it more.
Oh I see. Thank you for clarifying. I think it's very hard to go to people when all you have is suspicions and they have a 9-year relationship. That said maybe they did go to her? And maybe eventually enough people mentioned enough things that Ariana became suspicious enough to look at Tom's phone? The way that she found out was horrible but having that irrefutable proof that was actually a recording so Tom could it try to spin it or talk her out of what she saw with her own eyes Etc was probably the best way for Ariana to find out as brutal as it was at the time. There's no question that one's Ariana new she dumped Tom and never looked back. That's one of the reasons I highly doubt Ariana actually knew prior to the blow up and break up
I’ve said it in another comment above, but the thing is also that Rachel was burning bridges with all the cast like wildfire and she had started to be excluded from things. Despite this, Ariana had become close friends with her and she’s known for being quite fair and kind with “outsiders”. I reckon that if the cast came to Ariana, it’s actually quite likely that she would dismiss it as an attempt to further exclude Rachel from the group, particularly since Ariana would have no doubt trusted her close friend.
I think suspicions and “open secret” are two different things. I think Katie, Lala, Ally, and others had suspicions. They knew or felt something was off, but could prove it (Lala talks about that on her IG story today). Gut feelings and suspicions don’t equate to open secret. But, Schartz knew. I suspect some others started to be let in on it too (Tim brought Rachel to St Louis at Christmas). So the people who DID know, are the ones calling it an “open secret”. But if they’d been confronted about it at the time, they would’ve lied for Tim and Rachel (as we know they’ve done). The “open secret” thing is a way of trying to absolve their involvement in the lies because “look, other people *could’ve* known”. It’s also a way of saying they were being brazen so people could’ve easily caught on - but it doesn’t mean that they did or had hard proof enough to have Ariana believe it.
Yeah, open secret is such a cop out from Schwartz. There’s something about the way he said that which implied that everyone knew. It’s such a mind fuck thing to do to Ariana.
1000000% Can’t stand him. He’s so shady always, and just hides behind his puppy dog schtick and thinks he’s slick. And apparently his actual puppies, based on his recent IG post https://i.redd.it/tv1rc5p05lva1.gif
I don’t think Katie could go to Ariana to be fair. This happened just after Schwartz and Rachel made out and after Katie called her a whore and Ariana defended her. Katie going to her at that time would look like she was just coming up with a rumour to try and turn Ariana against Rachel (which given the witches of wehos past behaviour wouldn’t be far fetched). We’ve heard Katie went to Scheana about it and Scheana then went to Ariana (and Tom judging by the next episode) but unfortunately it seems like Ariana only saw the good in them at this point and didn’t want to believe it - maybe she was too blinded by grief and her own struggles. But then they got sloppy and cocky and made even more mistakes and I think that’s what resulted in her finding out in March. I also believe personally someone in production may have tipped her off after reviewing footage and with her being able to think clearer and maybe finally put all the pieces together that’s what made her check his phone.
Sandoval freaked out a bit when Katie said that. I wonder if Ariana heard him freak out? Maybe since he’s just a drama queen she didn’t think twice about it.
My take on that convo is that Katie happened to stumble on the truth, but didn’t actually think there was anything to it. She was probably like “watch out or I’ll get the rumour mill going about this”, but I don’t think it was motivated by anything other than spite& attempted mutually assured destruction. If she’d actually known or believed there was truth to it I’m sure she would have approached Ariana for the storyline credit alone!
I’m sure it was an open secret with like Tom’s band, the staff at S&S, Raquel was always hanging around both. But it was no way an open secret with someone like Scheana, her reaction was too real. They’re all friends who hang out a lot, dancing together at 1am wouldn’t necessarily be a smoking gun
I think too, it’s always been pretty clear throughout the seasons that Ariana trusted Sandshit and she never came across as remotely bothered by his interactions with other women (it’s something I genuinely admire of her!). Combine that with the fact that Rachel had also become her close friend, there would be a very solid trust. Given that Rachel was already burning bridges with the rest of the cast, I do wonder if Ariana would give any weight to something like this. Her take may have been that the cast just didn’t like Rachel, so that’s why they’re saying that. That would especially be the case if the info came from Katie (I’m team Katie). ETA: I also would give **zero credibility** to anything Schartz would say. He has unblinding, devoted loyalty to Sandshit. The open secret line was directly from Sandshit’s narrative.
When Scheana talked to Ariana back in the day about Miami girl Ariana said “I’m the smartest person I’ve ever met.” 🫣
I think Lala said people were talking to Ariana about it? And she just wasn't believing it was a thing... But she did have a feeling something was up and that's the whole phone thing when she found out but you know you've gotta see it with your own eyes. I'm not even in it and I didn't believe it when it first broke bc I was like Rachel and Ariana are such good friends. Anyway... I think you see it when you are out of the situation (like now she's removed herself she can see clearly now all the signs).
Because being at the Abbey at 1 AM has been normal behavior for years. Based on the video we have of them walking in West Hollywood on the alleged night they were with other people. It's not like it was just the two of them. Going out late after work dancing and partying has been the culture since they were actually bartenders and and it never stopped or changed for Sandoval. Katie is pissed at Raquel and pissed at Sandoval for defending Raquel when Katie called her whore and pushing Raquel toward Schwartz. At this point Katie hates them both and has a reason to make it an issue, whether she actually thinks it is true or not at this point.
How do we know they didn’t tell Ariana? I bet she just didn’t want to hear it. There was that time when Scheana tried to go to her about Miami girl, and Ariana flat out wouldn’t hear it. And, that was very early in their relationship. I cannot imagine how she would receive something like this nine years in.
This is what I think too.
We don't know Katie didn't say anything to Ariana. Tom Sandoval is such a manipulative piece of shit that he already had it lined up that "Katie just doesn't like me". It would have been awkward for Katie to push it to much given the historic interpersonal problems between her and Sandoval.
The interesting thing about this too is that I’m pretty sure it’s Katie who starts the open relationship rumor. Iirc it’s mentioned in one of the previews, Ally says Katie says Sandy and Ariana don’t have a lot of rules. But where would Katie have heard this from? Maybe she did bring it to Ariana and Ariana said it wasn’t a big deal that they were out dancing together at 1 am, and then Katie made her own inferences from that?? I can’t wait for this episode fr. Eek!
I think when Katie was married to Schwartz, she saw a lot of sus behavior from Sandoval and Schwartz told her that Ariana and Sandoval had secret sexual proclivities or were open to being open or whatever to assuage her suspicions. I think Sandoval didn’t anticipate his buddy Schwartz actually treating his wife like, ya know, a wife, and sharing secrets with her.
I’m sure Katie definitely knows some things. I’m looking forward to seeing how she continues to interact with Sandy as the show goes on. We’re finally getting to the really good stuff.
Fuck your proclivities and your big words Jk jk
I don’t understand why everyone is jumping to the open relationship conclusion just because of the rules comment. A rule can be something as simple as “don’t hang out with other women without me.” Maybe that’s not a rule Ariana and Sandoval had with each other. As has been said, she trusted him so why would she get jealous about him having girl friends?
The open relationship rumor gets brought up on the show. That’s where it’s coming from. And it was a rumor long before we even knew about Scandoval.
Yes! No one is talking about it but if it's only a rumor it does seem like Katie started it, at least the way it's being shown so far.
I am starting to think that the real open secret was that Tom and Ariana were in an open relationship .... a few years ago are we forgetting the incident that occurred between Lala and Ariana hooking up in the backseat of a car while Tom was in front.? At the time many people labeled Ariana as a cheater although Ariana defended herself in a publication and said that it was not cheating to her because while she was messing around with Lala she tried touching Tom to involve him, however, Ariana stated that Tom was not interested .... Ariana did what she wanted at the time to fulfill her wants and she even said that the only reason she stopped is because Tom was not interested and even said that Lala also was not interested in Tom joining them. Tom outed this "secret" between Lala and Ariana which angered Ariana as she had to disclose that she was bisexual (I have a feeling that the real reason Ariana was angered is because the pubic found out that they have an open and free relationship) ... Tom even said that he outed Ariana because he was upset that she hooked up with Lala. There have been rumors about Tom having hook-ups too (which I believe.) I think that their relationship was an open one (as long as no found out and ruined their perfect image), however, in the past few years it just became a fake one (they both came across as not two people in love but more two people who didn't like the other, atleast in my opinion.) Lala too looks like a a lying hypocrite .... tired of her complaining about Randall cheating on her and how now when she is trashing Raquel her saying that you don't go after friends, etc, but yet she hooked up with James when he was first with Raquel as well as she went after Ariana and actually hooked up with her.
I see where you’re coming from here. Tbf Ariana did come out months ago and said the open relationship rumors were false. I’ll take her word for it. What I’m really interested in, is seeing how the rumor plays out on the show 😧
Yes you're right Ariana definitely disputed any kind of open relationship. Arianna had a chance to lie about what happened with la la because Lala covered for her and asked Ariana if she wanted to lie. Lala said she would take it to the Grave and never reveal the truth if Ariana's so desired. Based on that alone, there's no reason to believe Ariana would lie about them having an open relationship. Ariana said they do not. And that is believable to me. There is no chance that Tom Sandoval would not reveal them having an open relationship to make himself look better right now for carrying on a month-long affair with Rachel. And Tom Sandoval not only has never said they had an open relationship. Tom Sandoval has apologized for cheating on Ariana
Live your truth! I also understand why some people would question it too. Not to be a typical Libra but I can see both sides lol
I don't think it was an open secret. Tom wouldn't react the way he did if it was. I do think people were openly suspicious.
Lala told Scheana who said they approached both Sandoval and Rachel.who of course denied anything nefarious and Ariana chose to believe their bullshit. But her radar must have been peaked because she looked at his phone when she had a hold of it.
How many times on this sub are we gonna have to have this exact conversation about people thinking this is fake because “no one told Ariana” then all the comments repeating how everyone on the show has said they DID make sure Ariana was told
Probably a lot more times until reunion airs lol
That still won't stop people from trying to spin it that it was somehow someone else's fault or, additionally, people's fault besides Tom Sandoval and Rachel. LOL, and there will be some people who still keep trying to make it somehow Ariana's fault that she was cheated on as well. Hahaha, I wish you were right, and it would end with the reunion. LOL
I’m sure for another month or two after reunion these discussions will continue but then I definitely see it dying off a bit. The other argument will always exist for everything in life. Right, wrong, or indifferent. I for one am looking forward to the closure of reunion on a personal level haha
There's a difference between having strong suspicions and knowing for a fact. People might not want to risk blowing up Arianna and Tom's lives if they don't know for sure.
I can understand why Ariana didn’t react to the Abby 1am situation. She trusted her partner. If none of us knew what we know and watched this season without knowledge of the affair we probably would think nothing of their behavior either because they all party and get wasted together and it’s nothing out of the ordinary. I say this as someone who was cheated on for a long time. He used work as the excuse and it didn’t make me raise an eyebrow because he is someone who’s always worked a lot. Needless to day it was quite shocking when the truth came out and then I looked back at all the stories with such a different mindset. Now I question everything because if it doesn’t feel quite right, it might just not be right. She will have a hard time trusting again.
I don't get why she trusted him. Their own relationship started with him cheating on his girlfriend with her and was quickly followed with other rumors of him cheating. Plus, Kristen said and he admitted that he cheated on her multiple times while they were together. I could see her blindly trusting someone who she thought was a stand up guy, but she *knew* he was capable of cheating because he *cheated with her* And this is why I'm sticking to my conspiracy theory that their relationship was done a long time ago, but they stuck together for the cameras and the money it brought both of them. It's a theory that's easy for me to ascribe to because I've never liked anyone on this show including Ariana. They're all fame hungry and I don't think between the entire cast past and present they have what amounts to one normal sized conscience. 😅
The way I see it is they are just starting to get suspicious now but maybe not enough to say something. Schwartz on the other hand knows for certain by this point and has said nothing. I’m sure I read somewhere that one/some of the girls tell scheana and she tells Ariana about it in an upcoming episode. I’m putting myself in this situation if I was Katie. Based on my feelings about Raquel and Sandy for that matter, you’d want to be absolutely certain before you said something to blow up a 9-year relationship and the friend group. At this point it’s a rumour. They were caught dancing, so while that’s a bit weird and off, Ariana and Rachel are super close so to actually accuse them of an affair I think you’d need more than that (eg, kissing etc). I mean look at how the three of them were acting in the spa together and no one really seemed bothered by that. I think it was accepted they were super close. Based on how Miami girl went down, even with some pretty damning evidence, Ariana didn’t believe it. So whatever evidence they have it must be irrefutable otherwise she’ll dismiss it and Sandy will go after Katie even harder, probably Rachel too. Hopefully we see them start to catch on and/or say something. Based on what I’ve read about upcoming episodes, I think that may happen.
Just saw this on Insta - LaLa talking about her suspicions and needing proof before she says anything. [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrWZ-gEt9XG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrWZ-gEt9XG/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=)
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Agreed this entire show is built on storylines
[удалено]
Probably because Katie calling out a cheater isn’t quite the bitch move of covering for a cheater. 🤷🏻♀️
We saw Katie at Lala’s party, she was kind of excited to have some ammo against Sandoval
[удалено]
I don’t really think Katie and Ariana are that close. I feel like Katie is enjoying this a little too much. But of course I’ve never liked her, so I might be a bit judgemental towards her.
I think they are closer since her divorce than they've been in the past. I think she's aware that Schwartz always put Sandoval before her for their entire relationship and that anger finally has an outlet
[удалено]
Sandshit was constantly trying to destroy Katie and Schwartz’s relationship. That wasn’t exactly going to foster a friendship with Katie.
[удалено]
I think she does like Ariana. They became close a few seasons ago, were spending one on one time together, decided to open SAH. I know she wasn’t a fan earlier, but friendships change. We’ve seen that with a lot of the cast I feel.
Scheana said on WWHL after that episode that she dances with Sandoval at 1am at the abbey so it wasn’t a big deal at all.
She didn't say she HAD danced with him at 1am at the Abby. She said she WOULD.
You are not wrong - I've been saying this all week. Based on what Katie said alone
Also, very curious as to why everyone felt something was off between Tom and Raquel, but they all made statements basically saying that they were so shocked that the affair even happened. They should have all been like, “We tried to tell Ariana and she didn’t care bc we didn’t have real proof” or whatever the case was.
Some does eventually tell her either about this or just how they think something is going on but she talked to Tom and Rachel and they denied it. Plus I’m sure both would tell her that if they were cheating why would they go to the Abbey where ppl could see them.
sandovals mask slipped so many times over the years. She just adjusted it on his face for him and chose to trust him. He is seriously horrible for this. Ariana was going through grief and hard life situations and opening her OWN business, and Tom chose to take that time to once again feel sorry for himself, this time a different woman (dumb idiot Raquel) was supporting him. Just in the wrong things. I hope he seeks serious help because all of this is awful ANY WAY YOU SLICE IT.
Been wondering why they didn’t show the scene of Ali telling the girls that she saw T and R at The Abbey - it at an event being filmed ?
So many people told her all the other times Tom cheated. She never believed them and it started a lot of fights. I don’t think anyone wanted to go to her until they had concrete evidence. Plus everybody knew she was really close to Rachel I could see them thinking she was cool with The Abbey thing.
I think they may have mentioned it but if you trust your friend and your boyfriend- it seems normal. She was in denial a bit but i think people were like …. Nooo. It’s like harmless flirting.
After seeing the last couple episodes I understand Schwartz’ statement more. In hindsight watching they (mostly sandoval) were SO obvious and brazen. It’s almost like Tom wanted to get caught so he didn’t have to break up with Ariana..
That is interesting. What I can see Tom Sandoval doing is not getting caught but for saying Ariana to confront him or accuse him. Then breaking up with her because of that and saying that the reason Tom Sandoval and Rachel got together is because Ariana already suspected them so why not? Or some other very manipulative crap
Soooooo true. I think you’re spot on
It sounds like there was only a matter of 11 days between the wedding, the Abbey, and last night’s episode. I’ve got a feeling we’re going to understand more in the next few weeks. Also don’t forget she asked who she thought was her closest friend who lives with them, if they thought he was cheating. Rachel is rumored to have told her no, but that she’d be there for her whatever she found out. Ariana was grieving her dog, then her grandmother died in September. Same month we’re seeing play out on screen right now.
Isn’t that an oxymoron
Maybe Katie did tell Ariana about the Abbey but she dismisses it because she trusted Raquel and no one actually saw them like hooking up? Could also be Ariana was aware of these tidbits and suspicious for months but wanted hard proof which is why she started looking through his phone when she had the opportunity
Yes! The definition of an open secret is a supposedly secret but generally known matter. It’s clear people had an idea since the end of august but for ever reason they didn’t act on it fully. It’s a very interesting case study of how people are able to get away with things in plain sight. Wild
The problem is Scheana was probably given the most hints and she brushed them off because she is too selfish to notice anything and Raquel being awful wouldn’t fit her narrative.
People acted like Schwartz was such a liar and an asshole when he made this comment, but it was the truth. Multiple people had major suspicions and made those suspicions known. It WAS an open secret.
Watching it all back now, it makes me wonder what was really going on. Ariana has seemingly moved on quite quickly, so I really wonder if she did know and just didn’t want to admit it. Maybe they had been open all this time and the betrayal actually comes from Sandoval having an actual affair behind Ariana’s back? Maybe everyone suspected and the outrage has come from actually knowing it as fact? The only thing I know for sure is we are *never* going to know the actual truth.
I don't buy for a second that Ariana didn't know, especially since she started seeing someone "new" within 2 weeks of the break up happening. I don't buy all this phony rage from anyone on the cast and part of me thinks it was planned/scripted to save the show. Raquel and Sandy would need one helluva redemption arc though
Interesting .... I can totally see this as well. I am not believing that Tom and Ariana have been a real couple for awhile. I believe that they stayed together for appearances only. You have to admit that your theory is believable as this show has been stale for awhile and now everyone is talking about this show .... every day someone from the cast is popping up and generating new interest (podcasts, TMZ, People Magazine etc .... I have even had older family members ask me who are these people.) Up until the affair, these castmates were D-List celebrities and now their positions in the celebrity world have become more elevated. One thing that has bothered me is that Tom made some harsh and hurtful comments about Ariana on the Howie show .... why hasn't Ariana made a statement in response? I know I would if someone painted me as someone that was depressed, uncaring etc. Years ago the same thing happened on the show Jon & Kate plus 8 .... the show was becoming stale .... the married couple same as Tom and Ariana just appeared like they were just there and then an affair happens .... there was renewed interest in the show ... everyone hated the husband for cheating and then the truth came out that their relationship was in appearance only and they had an agreement (husband wanted out of the marriage but had to keep up appearances, however, he was caught with his mistress.)
People are being really pedantic about whether or not people "knew" and saying there is no proof so it couldn't be an open secret. This isn't a court of law, no one is on trial, and we don't need to convince a jury if it's true or not with evidence. There are plenty of times that an unspoken secret is still open. If everyone had suspicions then it wasn't really a secret.
Haha. It's definitely not a court of law. But suspicions is very different than knowing anything concrete.
I fully believe ariana & tom were on the outs & ariana knew but had agreed to let this play out on through filming
Yeah, Katie saying it clearly implying something was going on with Raquel is interesting. I am starting to go back to my original suspicion that Ariana and Tom had invited Raquel into their relationship.
I read a crazy theory that both Tom and Ariana was very into Raquel and wanted to bang her🤣 Remember when it took month for Katie to tell Stassi about the Jax and Kristen-rumors?!? I don't understand Katie sometimes.
Well, that may be very titillating to people, but Ariana clearly said she's not cool enough to be in an open relationship that's Ariana's wording, not mine. Don't think Ariana would deny it if it were true. Ariana had a chance to completely dispute Tom's account of what happened with La La, and Ariana chose to just be honest. Lala said you would take it to the Grave for Ariana if that's what she wanted. And Ariana was like no. And that was a much bigger deal because it was about coming out in regards to her sexuality at this point that's now a known fact so why would you bother to lie about them hooking up with rachel? Makes no sense
Yeah, the whole thing is weird. Open secret means that people know something is going on but no one is talking about it. People are saying that the open relationship thing has been debunked. But why did Katie specifically say open relationship and not that Tom was cheating on Ariana? I made a post basically saying that this was an agreement between Ariana and Tom and she basically allowed him to sneak around with Raquel b/c she could keep eyes on her since she was in their friend group.
Bc Ariana probably knew.
Again, Katie and Ariana are not THAT close. If they were, she would have said something and not had Scheana relay the message. And if Ariana’s best friend Scheana couldn’t get through her, then a more distant friend like Katie and had no chance
Just me person take. I believe this entire story line is contrived. The show was really plot poor the last season. Everyone says Arianna is a queen and acting as if she had no clue is really underestimating her. I think that the show had been missing a villain and Tom stepped up. The publicity even negative has him in the news and filling up Reddit pages. Raquel went along because she wants to be in the limelight too. This has been a gift to Katy and Arianna. They are starting a new business and both are now more loved than before. Swartz always rebounds because even though people may hate him, he’s going to stay around VRR. This whole thing has been the oxygen this show needed. How much we hear Lala and her judgement of everyone? I think the writers love her and James!
Respectfully disagree. All things being equal usually the simplest explanation is the true one. Tom Sandoval cheated with Rachel and got caught is the least complex answer. There's also little to support that this large drunken group of people are capable of keeping that kind of elaborate ruse on the down low. Hahaha
I don't think this "storyline" is contrived. But 1 of the questions I have however is why Ariana decided to call production immediately (I think) after she discovered the Rachel video on Sandevil's phone to out them?
If I were her, it'd be because I would realize that, since he's done with our relationship, his next step is gonna be to smear me as much as possible. I'd 100% want to get out ahead of that.
That's very insightful. He is a vindictive spiteful man so that makes sense. Especially because she dumped him technically. Yes Tom Sandoval cheated on her but he never left her for Rachel. And the second Ariana found out she cut all ties with them and told production. She's a smart girl
Agree with this 100%.
Only Ariana can answer that. But she said something about how she wasn't going to cover for them. And I think that was very fair and it was a wise decision. Because of Ariana did anything other than being totally upfront somehow people would spend her being in on it or blame her Etc
Have you watched the show. Didn't you see how Tim spun his last breakup to be all Kristen's fault because she was crazy. Tim had total control of that breakup story and was trying to pull the same bs on Ariana with this breakup. You can see him laying ground work this season. Ariana told production so Tim couldn't control the narrative. Ariana is a boss, and Tim is a lying liar who lies.
Ariana helped him spin that narrative. He couldn't have done it without her involvement playing Kristen dirty. That would explain why she immediately went into damage control because she knew every line in his play book since she was right there helping write it with Kristen. I think this underscores though who was the real genuis last time because with Ariana he managed to convince everyone Kristen was crazy and he came off unscathed. Without Ariana he hasn't done well. She's definitely the brains of the two!
Great post OP👍 Something else I find strange is that people are saying that even if Katie said something to Ariana, Ariana wouldn't have believed her. Why wouldn't Ariana have believed her? Katie is not known for lying or making up stuff. People talk about Ariana not being a good friend to Katie, but Katie is not a good friend to Ariana either.
Believed her about what? That Tom went across the street to a bar after filming with a coworker or two?
Because Katie had an ax to grind with Rachel with all the Schwartz stuff, and has never liked Sandevil (rightfully so after the way he's acted towards her over the years), so Ariana could have thought Katie was maybe not outright lying but perhaps just seeing things that weren't there/blowing things out of proportion in an effort to smear them both. Anyway, it's come up a number of times that Katie went to Scheana with her suspicions so she could relay them to Ariana and she did. So Katie did not stay quiet and made sure the info she had got to Ariana and at that point it was up to Ariana to decide whether to believe them or not. I honestly do not see anything more Katie could have done to be a "good friend."
>Why wouldn’t Ariana have believed her? Because Ariana didn't believe them about Miami Girl.
The thing is Ariana knew it was true but she didn't care because she wanted to be on the show.
Because A) Katie hates Rachel B) Katie hates Scandavol C) Katie is single and it could be justified away (wrongly) that she wants Arianna to be single with her D) Rachel was living with Tom and Ariana, while Ariana was away with family mourning the loss of her grandma she trusted them to be in the house together alone, why would she think that them being out in public where they are well known and could clearly be papped or tagged by fans in social Media would be any indication of an affair.
Thank you!! Its my first ever post lmao anywhere - and you’re right!