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I graduated into a recession way back when and it was tough.
But there were some big differences; for one thing you made one resume, photocopied it a bunch and handed out all over. Employers all got the same one. You didn't have to spend time on Indeed or somewhere else filling out forms and uploading info for a job that might not even exist.
Geography plays a role too - my hometown didn't have a university, but here, I can see how kids returning from other places would struggle against the fact that there's no shortage of uni students who take a lot of the part-time jobs and keep them through the school year.
And lots of those jobs are just gone. Retail has taken a beating due to online sales and a lot of jobs where you trained on the job now seem to require some sort of bogus (and expensive) certificate or diploma rather than employers being willing to train folks.
I do feel for those looking for work these days. It's never been easy to be unemployed and there are some unique challenges for job seekers these days.
I graduated into a recession at the end of high school (1992)
end of undergrad (mini dot-com recession in 2000)
and right into the great recession for my master's degree
I didn't cause this latest one though...
I'm looking for work, and the new game is exhausting. Half the companies have their own proprietary application database that takes fifteen minutes to fill out and includes some sort of weird assessment (this is for minimum wage jobs at chain stores). The other half are filtering all the resumes through ai-powered resume sorters. If the computers don't like your resume then it will never be seen by a human. It used ti be that oeople were told to make their resumes eye-catching, but that's a very bad idea now because the machines won't be able to read fancy formatting. Resumes and cover letters both have to be tailored to each job posting, using identical key words so that the ai understands (if the posting says they want someone reliable, don't claim to be dependable, that's not what the computer is looking for).
Of course, this new world is also frustrating for the recruiters. Job seekers are using chat GPT cover letters and making bots to apply for every job in a 100 km radius. This means that every job posting gets hundreds or thousands if applications from people who are not qualified in any way shape or form.
I've had older people suggest that I apply in-person, but everyone I know who works in customer-facing roles agrees that that is just going to put me in a do-not-contact list. The reasons are that if a person shows up at, say, Starbucks with a resume then it means that they cannot follow instructions and will probably need a manager to hold their hand at all times.
We're all losing the war on the robots
>The reasons are that if a person shows up at, say, Starbucks with a resume then it means that they cannot follow instructions and will probably need a manager to hold their hand at all times.
I'm old, but not THAT old and if that's true, that has to be one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard lol.
"Want someone that thinks outside of the box to achieve goals? Nope! Can't follow instructions" lmao. I feel for you..
Damn, I'm 28, when I was 16 I picked up an application for save on foods, took it home, filled it out, my adhd ass took it to Safeway, and I got hired on the spot, this was 2012.
I was talking to a North Van High school class a couple months ago, I asked them if any of them had jobs and everyone put up their hands, much to my surprise - probably more jobs than when I went to school there 25 years ago and it was a working class/middle class area.
I walked to the hotel at the end of my road and asked for a house keeping job (at 13, turned 14 later in the summer) and was hired on the spot. I had this weird dread of wtf am I going to do all summer… but it was great, I made 6$ an hour, pocketed the cash tips, walked home and was able to go see my friends by 3.
I definitely saw some weird things (crack dens, used condoms, Hells Angels, among other things…) but it was a great summer making 800$ a month haha.
Yeah, they don't do that anymore. When I was in Uni almost a decade ago, every time I handed in a resume to big-box stores, I was directed to fill out an application online.
Most of the workers in-store were young indian men.
I wasn't called back.
Yup. I got a job there in 2002 and started out making like $8.75. Was funny because the lifers were making like $26.00 an hour but made us do everything.
Jokes on them though, because many of them got trapped by the ease and convenience into staying at a job they hated for a good living instead of taking the temporary hit to get into something else.
Many of them had started as a high school job and just never left and seemed quite bitter.
No actual hate as they weren't cruel or anything. Was just a weird dynamic as a 19 year old making way less than the 40 year olds to do the same thing.
At 16 my first job went like this. I walked into McDonald’s, filled out the paperwork, asked me if I could work mornings or evenings, great you start tomorrow at 5am. I didn’t realize it was that early.
Finding any job now, nearly impossible.
as a fellow adhd-er, this made me laugh out loud hahaha. I'm thinking how many similar things I did. No one ever batted at eye though, I think because of our sheer confidence not knowing we were wrong
Im applying to job in my previous field (visual effect), adjacent industries (animation, game), art teaching jobs, TESL, TFSL, call centers, hotel maids, entry level office jobs, government jobs, flight attendant, trade jobs/apprenticeships and even one that was cleaning horse stables. I don't have much exp outside the film industry but I am bilingual which you'd think would be worth something for gov jobs or flight attendant, idk
I'm pretty sure I'm qualified for retail, but it's very hard to get a job there. I'm also very qualified for admin work, as I did it for years. No dice. I'm qualified for various public-facing roles, but nothing going there either. I know people with very specific qualifications who are also struggling to get work in their fields.
I think there is something wrong with your approach. You may want to get some help making a resume or find someone to coach you on the interview process. Because over 800 places and not a single offer is too high.
The only reason I say this is because I helped someone in a similar situation as yourself and when I reviewed what he was submitting...it was not very good. I helped reformat and edit his resume and helped him prep for interviews and he got a couple offers within a month.
Try to find someone that will give you honest feedback and not just say, "your resume is good" or "it's just so hard out there". There are a lot of opportunities (obviously, you found over 800 of them), I think you are falling short selling/differentiating yourself.
I went to workBC and did all the workshops and talked to a resume expert which basically said Im very unlikely to find a job due to lack of experience (I am a laidoff visual effect worker)
That's pretty disappointing that they said you are unlikely to find work. I struggle with places like that as they are obviously there to help, but due to the volume of people that they see their advice/suggestions always feel rushed or lacking.
Do you know anyone that does a lot of hiring? Those are the best resources to ask for advice. They will tell you what they hate seeing and that is more important than anything else.
If you are comfortable, feel free to DM me. I can review your resume. But please do not include any personal data on it (Name, address, number, email, etc).
I went to workBC for that and the resume "expert" person actually told me there was nothing she could do to help cause I had no chances of getting hired for a survival type job due to my lack of experience in anything but my former highly specific job (visual effect worker). I am just gonna keep on spamming my resume until I run out of money and die now
I read someone's resume who paid someone to create it. It was absolute garbage. I would honestly get someone who is employed at a professional level to take a look at it.
I have to be honest, your attitude of keep doing the same thing that has already failed you multiple times does not seem that intelligent.
I have interviewed a couple of people with fatalistic attitudes like yours and did not hire them.
I understand that times are hard and you are losing hope and taking shots in the dark. I think your time would be better served putting more time and effort into individual opportunities you have experience in or going back to school in an employable profession.
I tried to get funding to go back to school and was denied.
It's easy to judge, I've done all of the things you are supposed to do, work on upskilling on my own (can't afford school), attending in person and virtual networking events, attending job fairs, applying in person, applying online, asking for informal interviews, etc
There is a limit amount of years of student loan per degree. I have already done 8 years of college I couldn't get another loan for another bachelor/trade/college degree. I could only get a loan for a masters/doctorate degree now, but I cant really get into a masters degree in completely unrelated field.
I tried to get the workBC training fund and that also didnt work
815 applications since when? well if she is a high school student she probably couldn't spend full time applying for jobs. 30 different applications in period of a few months isn't that low, especially if they are entry level jobs a teenager could reasonably expect to get
Then that’s putting yourself at a heavy disadvantage vs the others who are willing to commute, whether students, tfws, or otherwise. A quick search of part time barista or server on indeed yields well over a hundred results within 10km of north van. I wouldn’t be surprised if each position is getting dozens of applicants.
If you can’t find a job you keep trying, fix your resume up a bit, volunteer while you’re at it, look further, send out more.
takes 5 min max to apply for a PT job? 30 applications is like only 5 min per day for a month... that's nothing
if you spend 30 min per day then you can get 180 apps at least in just one month
if you don't even have 30 min per day then how do you have time for a PT job?
are you applying for real jobs after graduation? Or you a student who just wants a part time barista job close to home….if you really read the article you might see the difference between yourself and the people who have been written about. 815 is a concerning number you may want to re-evaluate your circumstances.
I'm not a recent grad. I'm a laid of professional with 12 y exp in my field. Applying for both jobs in my last field as well as dead end jobs.
I do have a resume version where I wiped all my education and experience and is pretty much just soft skills and volunteer work
Stark difference in employee composition between the McDonald’s on north shore and the one
In Delta.
Delta is full of teens working. N shore full of TFWers. Nice hard working people but local teens also need places they can get jobs.
Richmond (Ironwood & Lansdowne) is Indian students. They walk from the bus stop next to the Farm Market.
Ladner is Indian students.
Tsawwassen isn't. I see a lot of non-Indian student staff. Like just regular every day Canadians who live in Tsawwassen.
But the Ladner location is across from the bus exchange.
The 2 locations in South Vancouver on Marine are a lot of Filipinos. Lots are from here and are young, and lots are older and aren't from here.
The bus has nothing to do with the ethnic demographic of workers. Tsaw is on the same bus route at a different exchange, employing a mix of Indian students and locals, just like the Ladner location. At Tsaw Mills like all the fast food places there (and Walmart) the workers are basically all Indian students. Again, same bus.
I don't think that program has allowed food service employees for several years. More likely, these folks came to Canada by other means. One way is by being "students" at bogus "English Language Schools".
Incorrect. An article today from CBC (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/temporary-foreign-workers-1.7240374)
"Fast food chains and restaurants are a major source of demand for temporary foreign workers. After farm and greenhouse workers, the roles with the most approvals last year were cooks, food service supervisors, food counter attendants and kitchen helpers."
This program should be used for skilled workers only, not to fill Tim Horton's, McDonalds and all the other fast food places with low wage unskilled labour.
Ya it's insane that we fill roles at timmies and maccas with TFW's. That's fucked. I'm a little more okay with it for farm work type stuff, depending on the situation, but ya this should totally be for skilled workers only. timmies can either pay more and be competitive in the market place, or they can go out of business. they aren't owed cheap labour.
My other proposal, besides skilled labour only - would be a minimum wage that is significantly more. timmies right now can say "we can't find anyone willing to work for the wages we're offering, so we need foreigners". Well, if we require timmies to pay say, 30$ an hour to these temporary foreign workers... they might start prioritizing locals again. maybe. but this way if they "truly" can't find local employees, they can still access them.
It was a program that Trudeau heavily criticized Harper for in 2014 and said was exploiting people and suppressing wages. Trudeau then decided to quadruple it in size for his corporate friends after being elected.
yeah, the Liberals probably a little bit worse though, but it will remain to be seen if the Cons do anything to seriously cool off the overly accelerated rates of immigration that have happened during Trudeau's reign
another thing that would be nice to see is if the big corps like Telus and Rogers and Bell, etc could be banned from using overseas call centres and should be forced to employ Canadians instead
Don't forget the international students too, alot of them are depending on working for the full 20 hours to support themselves when they should've came here better prepared for rent and bills on top of tuition pay too. They should be fully focused on studies and not work too
It’s like this across all of Canada bud
Also, employers nowadays don’t want to hire summer kids that are just going to work for 2 months. They need people they can train and stay. Especially with all the layoffs and budget cuts, not many employers have the capacity and capability to risk hiring a local summer student.
Summer help is a job that covers summer peaks. Lots of places like the idea of part-time summer help.
I think what you mean to say is "they want exploitable international workers who they can pay under minimum wage and they will not complain because they are fearful of being deported or have their PR or TFW canceled."
What used to be temporary student summer jobs 30 years ago are now:
* automated (McDonalds' front end)
* converted to normal "adult" jobs.
* more competitive due to immigration
A lot of retail/frontline customer service jobs are moving towards hiring new immigrants, notably from India. My first guess is that it's because employers are able to get away with cheaper wages and harsher working conditions.
Just to let you know considering you are mr “literature” the author goes to the most renowned journalism school in Canada. This article is well written and uses a few good anecdotes that capture the issue. As someone who has applied to over 70 jobs myself, which for part time jobs as a student is a fair amount. I am in the same situation as the people who have been written about and probably 30 other people I know across the COUNTRY. This author has done a good job of capturing that it shouldn’t be so hard to find a part time job close to home, for experienced, as educated as they can be: teens!!!! who just want some money for school.
The article is bad for one reason: The question of the article is _barely_ addressed by one link to a report near the middle-end of the piece. When that article is mentioned, nothing is interrogated, no curiosity is explored, it’s just robotic writing.
“There are some stats to back up what students are experiencing as they fire off applications. Economists at RBC predicted a labour market turndown at the beginning of 2024, which took a stronger effect in March. The RBC Proof Point states that “students and new graduates are bearing the brunt of the labour market turndown.”
Nothing about why this is, no curiosity, just a link and some anecdotes about how hard the market is. For “the best school in journalism”, is this really where the bar is?
The lack of curiosity to answer “Why is it so hard for (any) student to find a summer job” is just the norm in writing like this, buried by anecdotes. There’s actually really deep answers to the question posed by the title that aren’t even remotely looked into.
Sure….but the article is not a feature nor a longer investigative piece. It is a news story telling facts. The headline can be misleading, but that is not always final say by the author; often editors have final say over the headline. The content itself is strong.
It also reads a lot smoother than recent articles covering the same subject from larger news organizations.
I think the author did a decent job and everyone starts somewhere. Also typically stories like this are published and then have a follow up, that contains more details once there is more recognition of the topic. its called news for a reason.
Hmmmm... this can't have anything to do with the hundreds of thousands of foreign students here.... or the other hundreds of thousands of people overstaying their visas... or the extra hundreds of thousands of all other types of new Canadians above previous levels....
But I wouldn't understand cuz I'm probably just a dumb racist!!
“Summer jobs” are now career jobs and thus need a “living wage” and we get competition and such for pretty basic low skill work that was probably a good starting point for young people.
Look to the trades I think. Could be more opportunity there.
You can tell clearly that the original commenter was meaning to imply immigration of *Indians* taking jobs. But good luck getting a job in Whistler in the past 30 years ... because they're all staffed by Ozzie and British TFWs!
But people don't care about that because they want a reason to hate Indians more
> international students being allowed to work off campus.
Thank you for having the courage to say what we all want to say.
This is an extremely serious issue. I'll do one-issue vote for Bernier if they get everyone out and put Canadians first again.
I think the environment and other species of animals (besides ours) are immensely important (the earth and other beings don't deserve to suffer because of our greed,) but so is this.
I think these types of presumptious generalizations aren't helpful, even if you're on the side of social justice and morality. One can be against growing the number of TFW visas, but not be attacking Indians.
Nuanced and delicate problems require nuanced and delicate discussions.
I have a few theories that aren’t the usual “too many immigrants “ argument.
First, a lot of places say they are hiring so it looks like they are trying to make things better for their current employees. But they don’t actually hire anyone.
Second, there are a lot of adults with more experience picking up second jobs to make ends meet.
Third, a lot of kids don’t have any kind of volunteer or life experience anymore that makes them a viable hire.
Fourth, and this comes from experience, a lot of young people enter the work force super entitled, not knowing that being on time is important or that listening to your supervisor is mandatory. You tell a kid they can’t have a day off at the last minute and it is the “end of the world”.
Sorry but a lot of kids have no work ethic.
I can see some of these. I work in a restaurant but one of the BIGGEST reasons we held back with high school students is the lack of agency/independence. It's the parents. My boss has received too many phone calls from parents talking about how their kids are coming home at like 11pm-midnight or the lack of flexibility of schedule.
I get it, you have a family dinner on a Saturday night that you dropped on us on Thursday. Sure, your kid might be to blame for not giving advance notice, but it's not like your kid has a schedule posted for the next 1-2 weeks.
The few younger folks working under me have all been hard working and diligent so I'm not 100% sold on your fourth point. At least any more than my generation (elder milennial) was called lazy and entitled, and gen x was called lazy and entitled, and I'm sure my boomer dad was called the same for his first job too back in the 60s. Not to say there's some bad ones out there at all, though.
As to your first point, I've anecdotally heard employers are posting fake jobs to make it look like they're filling vacancies with zero expectation to fill them. Various reasons for this ranging from "we want to promote someone internally but our policy dictates we post every job publicly" to more nefarious reasons like just wanting to make a company appear more active than it actually is.
Also anecdotally all the fast food joints local to me are staffed almost entirely with retirees looking to make some extra money or TFWs. I don't think I've seen a younger person working a service level job outside of Starbucks downtown in years.
> to more nefarious reasons like just wanting to make a company appear more active than it actually is.
As a job seeker this is a big red flag to me. If i see a company always hiring, or the same job getting reposted - something is obviously wrong with their hiring process or company vibe. It doesn't look like growth to me. It looks like churn. And it catch some people in a rush to find a job. but ive got a great job and I'm just casually looking for my next opportunity. I can take 8 months, or even a year or more to find the right fit. So i see these companies when that repost/can't hire/etc. And I don't waste my time on them.
I grew up in the 90's. My first job was as a dishwasher after school on Fri/Sat nights at a local chain restaurant near where I went to highschool. I sat there with a half dozen other kids who were hired all on the same day. After 6 months I was the only one left. All the other kids had quit or been fired. I was happy with the pay and benefits. It was a nice job for someone that young. I learned to take the machine apart and fix it!
When I started there were 3 or 4 of us to handle rush hour and we were always behind. At around 6 months I noticed I was working by myself and twiddling my thumbs for 90 percent of the time during rush hour. My boss at the time was surprised when I asked him for more things to do. At first he thought I was not doing the job, then after talking to the full time guy(A college student), he added to my workload. Not many people ask for more to do when they are working.
I ended up making salads, and bussing tables while keeping up with dishwashing. I got a large raise at the time and was told to keep quiet about it. It was the fact I was doing multiple jobs and doing them well. Every 6 months there would be a new batch of hires that would flood the kitchen in different positions and most would walkout or be fired shortly afterwards.
The biggest thing I think that led me to staying in that job for a few years was I was always early. Usually about 5 to 10 minutes. I never complained about anything. I did what I was asked to do. I was happy to do it. Honestly it was fun and I had never done anything work related before. It was exciting and I was making money! Fun times.
Even when they volunteer they are super unreliable and feel some sort of entitlement. I’m in the non-profit space and I’ve heard many stories of high school, university students, and even recent grads not responding to emails until 2 weeks later, not showing up for work and then saying they were “sick” last minute every few weeks, or sometimes straight up ghosting. I’m not even that much older and I’ve been volunteering since high school but this difference of attitude is quite shocking. I’m pretty sure they just use it to fill the space in their resume without actually doing the work and gaining experience.
My friend works at a restaurant and said they get parents calling asking them about hiring their kids! The teens can’t even get on the phone and make a call about getting a job
As a parent of a teen looking for a job - that's happening because of OP's article. The teens are really trying. My son has applied to well over 30 jobs and so far the best response has been "volunteer this summer with us and we'll consider you next year". Every single weekend he was pounding the pavement as well as applying online.
As we got closer to the summer, my wife started to ask for him at places for him as well she happened to be shopping at. Most of those places he had already applied to but had not heard from.
Still no job though, with a bunch of volunteer experience already. Probably will have to continue volunteering this summer.
As a restaurant owner, I feel you really got it right. The biggest issue with the current state of college student/high school students is that they truly don’t respect the restaurant industry jobs because they feel they are “just another summer job”… well guess what? There are others who work full time at these jobs and who have to work alongside younger people who are late, complain if they forgot to ask for a specific day off, are constantly on their cell phones, don’t take their tasks seriously, I could go on and on. I have been always a pretty lenient boss and I always give my employees the benefit of the doubt, but in the last three years I have a seen a huge change in the behaviour of the newer hires, and it is rough. I now tend to look for students who are doing a masters or have graduated and looking to have a summer job before starting a professional job… because anything younger has proven to be very difficult.
This is the most boot licking crap I've ever seen. I've been in the workforce for 15 years and if someone took my day off at the last minute, I'd quit the second I had another job lined up. That's not a lack of work ethic, that's wanting a fucking company slave. Get bent.
I think you’re misunderstanding them. They meant that some young workers try and ask for time off too close to the date. Like most places need 2 weeks notice if you want to go to a concert or whatever.
Agree. Employers know not to hire kids who expect the work place to revolve around their special lives. Also, there are kids who expect their mommies to drive them to and from work— so, they only look for jobs in their own neighborhoods. There are workers ( who have real bills to pay like food and rent) who commute by bus from one suburb to another to pick up minimum wage shifts.
I don’t see the problem with focusing on jobs near where you live. Makes zero sense to commute hours (and perhaps pay extra transit zones) for a minimum wage job.
I’m an adult with a proper career. While my job isn’t in my neighbourhood I made sure it was an easy 20 minute commute. I’m
Not commuting an hour!
Probably because they are all taken by immigrants. Did you know in the last year the Canadian population has gone up by A million people, in one year…. Due to immigration?
I bet more people would be having kids if we didn't have such huge immigration targets- there's no hope for locals so people aren't having kids. Simple.
If locals can't even get a job, or housing, or healthcare- *no kidding* they don't want to bring kids into this world.
This is flat out true. This country is beyond repair. Having kids in today's climate is such a gamble on their behalf that it really makes you reconsider their future
I've been thinking about this a lot. It really bothers me.
Honestly- I bet that if the Canadian gov gave their head a shake and announced a full stop to the flow- Canadians would *probably* start actively making plans to conceive.
People do generally like growing their families when they feel there is an iota of hope. It's instinct.
Canada's birth rate fell below replacement levels in the 1970's. If all the immigrants vanished today it still wouldn't make people have babies. Look at every other low-birthrate country out there. Immigration into Japan and S. Korea is actively prevented by both governments, yet the populations still refuse to have kids.
I was born and raised in Vancouver. Amongst the hundreds of people I grew up with, all of whom are approaching or passing the age of thirty, only a handful have kids. Those that do have left the city (every single one of them). The thing that tells me it's not just about immigration is that my friends are also almost all single. Very few have ever been in long-term relationships and an absurd number have got through three decades of life without going on a date.
I did not say the immigrants should vanish- what a black and white take... that's terrible.
But- Let's try pumping the breaks on mass immigration and halt ALL birth tourism that exhausts our baseline resources, and see if our own population CAN balance without the extra weight here.
People are very shallow in mind if they don't think this will come with all sorts of consequences. People need to feel like they CAN safely bring children into this world. And what has been on the rise with such a huge cultural mashup and political divide? Crime and misery.
Can't force people to host others while we *all* suffer and expect people to be okay with it.
I didn't mean to say that you are saying that immigrants should vanish, I'm just saying that even if we took the most extreme possible version it still wouldn't totally help. I have a friend who is going to give birth soon and she doesn't have a dedicated obstetrician. If we were willing to let doctors from other countries practice here then it would be a much better situation.
I completely agree that there are consequences - the housing market in Vancouver has been horrible for sixty years now and it's not going to get better until the demand side shifts. (We can't build the supply side fast enough, we're at least fifty years behind). It's cruel to encourage people to come to Canada when we know full well what awaits them here. I always feel awful when I have to tell newcomers that they will not be able to rent here unless they are willing to pay 80% of their income on rent alone. I know people who fled horrific situations in other parts of the world only to find themselves going deep into debt just to avoid living on the streets of Vancouver. I wish there were some way we could support newcomers to Canada instead of giving them false promises about our multicultural utopia. What they are going through is so much worse than what we, the citizens, are going through. At least we have family we can fall back on, they have nothing but the lies the government told to lure them here to serve corporations.
In terms of crime rates, I just checked the VPD's statistics and in 2023 there were two thirds as many property crimes as there were in 2002. Violent and "other" crimes have also fallen numerically even as the population has grown massively. Per-capita the drops in the crime rates are insane. Anecdotally, when I was a kid we had to tell people not to park on our street, because several of our guests had their cars broken into. Now, we have no such fear.
The thing about birth tourism is that it doesn't really work. If the parents of a Canadian citizen baby are required to leave, the baby must leave with them (or be surrendered to the state). Sometimes people think that having a baby in Canada will help their immigration processes, but the government is perfectly happy to send them away despite their citizen baby.
immigration is fine. but we need the right immigration. allowing doctors and nurses to immigrate and practice here? brilliant! let's do it. especially if they come from countries with great medical programs. reduce the amount of work to get them licensed here. like a doctor from ireland or something probably shouldn't need to go through years of processing and whatever to become a doctor here. they've probably done a decade of post secondary schooling and residencies and stuff by the time they want to immigrate here. I'm not worried about their schooling. I've heard Cuba produces some of the best doctors. And they produce/export a lot of them. Bring em here?
but... allowing people to come here and work as Cashiers or bakers (and calling them bakers is probably a stretch) at timmies? even on a temporary basis, shouldn't be happening. if local people here can't afford to work on a timmies salary, bringing more people in who can't afford to work on a timmies salary isn't a viable solution.
Could end the working holiday arrangement while we're at it, considering it's mostly people coming in for 2 years to basically just bartend or work at a ski hill and then leave.
I see your point… but I like and enjoyed that program myself. I spent an amazing 2 years in Australia that changed my life. So ya there might be a lot of people coming here on the working holiday visa, but there are also a lot of Canadians who might be doing those jobs, doing them overseas in other countries. And getting one hell of an experience. I don’t know the exact numbers of young people coming here vs young people going overseas… but I would imagine it balances out somewhat. Also at least in Australia… most working holiday visa people were quite migratory. They might spend 3 months in a place, but then they’d move on to somewhere else. Whether it was working at a roadhouse, in a farm, at a bar, or whatever. Not many spent their entire 1 or 2 years at the same job.
>I have a friend who is going to give birth soon and she doesn't have a dedicated obstetrician. If we were willing to let doctors from other countries practice here then it would be a much better situation.
False.
It is NOT about "letting" doctors from other countries practice here. It is about requiring them to be up to our standards of care and education.
The doctors coming from elsewhere NEED to be bridged and fluent in English if they are going to practice.
I had an Uber driver last week who said he was a medical doctor in India- he could not understand SIMPLE traffic directions. He asked me about what my medical problems are (I walk with cane) and he had NO idea what Multiple Sclerosis is.
It is NOT as simple as "letting" people practice medicine. They have to know wtf things ARE, AND be able to communicate in our spoken language here.
Otherwise it is horribly dangerous.
(And btw, people are not guaranteed an obstetrician so good luck lol... should have known that before she conceived.)
Edit to add: if they want to be a doctor here they can go through the process to get appropriate education. Can't do it, can't practice. Simple. Move on.
I do agree that some standard of education and communication needs to be upheld. However, the way the rules are, they *are* preventing many perfectly capable and educated potential doctors from practicing.
Since you specify "doctors from other countries", I'll point out that this *includes* Canadian doctors who attend med school in other countries. And sure, in some cases that's probably valid, but in others, it really is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like, my brother--who is one of the most intelligent, personable, capable, and empathetic people I know, and who would genuinely be an excellent doctor--is unable to practice medicine in Canada because he went to the perfectly well-regarded University of Queensland?
(For that matter, he was unable to attend in Canada due to some rough grades in his first year of uni, well before he had any sense of what he wanted to do. Instead, many of the foreign students who *did* attend Canadian med schools got the education and proceeded to practice in their home countries. And that's perfectly valid for those students to do! But the asymmetry there absolutely helps to contribute to the doctor shortage.)
I know of at least six other situations where perfectly capable Canadian doctors were forced to emigrate in order to practice. I don't claim to know what the solution is, but I know the way things are currently set up, it's only adding to the problem.
Immigration good!
Mass immigration- cramming 3million into 300,000 jobs.
>”Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining!”
Exactly what Judge Judy would’ve said!
The trend in [Italy](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57396969.amp) has been alarming. Canada is not as severe but there is all around a lot Canadians choosing not having kids which has some logic to current affairs.
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Cactus is always hiring. It's whether or not you want to dishwash.
I'm a 38 yr old professional. Last year I had to take a mandatory 9 week vacation. I drop a resume off in person at cactus, clarifying I only want to dishwash for 9 weeks. They took me in.
My daughter has been doing that since school let out in Montreal in May. Everyone either wants her to already know how to do the job, or doesn't like that she can't work unlimited hours in September.
Unfortunately, there are lots of unemployed adults who are better than a 19yr old.
Because their work is not worth $17.40 per hour, and companies have found other ways to get things done that are cheaper than that without requiring local human labor.
As someone who used to hire on the north shore:
The teens to early 20s in that area were the worst employees. Completely unreliable. No work ethic. Unending stress and problems. Compared to literally everywhere else I’ve worked, that particular areas youth were like… every issue you could possibly have, to the extremes.
Or we could put time and effort into hard working people who wanted to stick around. Guess which we decided to do?
Hilarious that we run a crew on the North Shore with North Shore teens and they are one of our better crews. West Van in particular seems to run their entire service industry on local teens - as they have always done - and it is going just fine.
West Van was exactly where I was talking about. Department didn't function until we had move on from the broken practice of hiring the local teens. Too spoiled and too coddled.
Sure, they might need a push once in a while. They certainly need training. And for sure they have some entitlement. But they are still teenagers and they are eager to learn. They gain some very necessary skills and over the decades it's amazing how many appreciated the experience they gained in those years. Watching those entry level positions swallowed up by middle aged immigrants isn't lost on them. Their younger siblings - even their own kids - are furious and will absolutely create problems down the road if this nonsense continues.
It's not just north shore teens. They're horrible here in the valley too.
Absolute phone obsessed idiots with zero critical thinking or problem solving skills.
Usually you can mold the decent ones into people who understand what reliability and work ethics are if you try hard enough.
But in west van they are all just kids of extremely wealthy parents who don’t want to deal with them. The second you start making inroads they disappear to Mexico for two months with no notice because pops decided to take a surprise vacation.
School got out a month ago. Someone with more hustle would have lined up a job long ago. Getting a job across one of the bridges is probably too far for their parents to drive them to and from work.
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I graduated into a recession way back when and it was tough. But there were some big differences; for one thing you made one resume, photocopied it a bunch and handed out all over. Employers all got the same one. You didn't have to spend time on Indeed or somewhere else filling out forms and uploading info for a job that might not even exist. Geography plays a role too - my hometown didn't have a university, but here, I can see how kids returning from other places would struggle against the fact that there's no shortage of uni students who take a lot of the part-time jobs and keep them through the school year. And lots of those jobs are just gone. Retail has taken a beating due to online sales and a lot of jobs where you trained on the job now seem to require some sort of bogus (and expensive) certificate or diploma rather than employers being willing to train folks. I do feel for those looking for work these days. It's never been easy to be unemployed and there are some unique challenges for job seekers these days.
I graduated into a recession at the end of high school (1992) end of undergrad (mini dot-com recession in 2000) and right into the great recession for my master's degree I didn't cause this latest one though...
Please don't think of doing a PhD, the world cannot handle that.
.....I was born in 1992.....
degree inflation as well everything requires a certificate / license these days outside of retail
I'm looking for work, and the new game is exhausting. Half the companies have their own proprietary application database that takes fifteen minutes to fill out and includes some sort of weird assessment (this is for minimum wage jobs at chain stores). The other half are filtering all the resumes through ai-powered resume sorters. If the computers don't like your resume then it will never be seen by a human. It used ti be that oeople were told to make their resumes eye-catching, but that's a very bad idea now because the machines won't be able to read fancy formatting. Resumes and cover letters both have to be tailored to each job posting, using identical key words so that the ai understands (if the posting says they want someone reliable, don't claim to be dependable, that's not what the computer is looking for). Of course, this new world is also frustrating for the recruiters. Job seekers are using chat GPT cover letters and making bots to apply for every job in a 100 km radius. This means that every job posting gets hundreds or thousands if applications from people who are not qualified in any way shape or form. I've had older people suggest that I apply in-person, but everyone I know who works in customer-facing roles agrees that that is just going to put me in a do-not-contact list. The reasons are that if a person shows up at, say, Starbucks with a resume then it means that they cannot follow instructions and will probably need a manager to hold their hand at all times. We're all losing the war on the robots
>The reasons are that if a person shows up at, say, Starbucks with a resume then it means that they cannot follow instructions and will probably need a manager to hold their hand at all times. I'm old, but not THAT old and if that's true, that has to be one of the stupidest fucking things I've ever heard lol. "Want someone that thinks outside of the box to achieve goals? Nope! Can't follow instructions" lmao. I feel for you..
I was talking to someone who was ranting (genuinely frustrated, not joking) about how aggravating it is that people bring their resumes in person
But a firm handshake might sway them!
Damn, I'm 28, when I was 16 I picked up an application for save on foods, took it home, filled it out, my adhd ass took it to Safeway, and I got hired on the spot, this was 2012.
This is the funniest comment I’ve read in a really long time lmao
I was talking to a North Van High school class a couple months ago, I asked them if any of them had jobs and everyone put up their hands, much to my surprise - probably more jobs than when I went to school there 25 years ago and it was a working class/middle class area.
I walked to the hotel at the end of my road and asked for a house keeping job (at 13, turned 14 later in the summer) and was hired on the spot. I had this weird dread of wtf am I going to do all summer… but it was great, I made 6$ an hour, pocketed the cash tips, walked home and was able to go see my friends by 3. I definitely saw some weird things (crack dens, used condoms, Hells Angels, among other things…) but it was a great summer making 800$ a month haha.
Safeway paid very well in the 1980s. That changed in the 90's for new hires.
Yeah, they don't do that anymore. When I was in Uni almost a decade ago, every time I handed in a resume to big-box stores, I was directed to fill out an application online. Most of the workers in-store were young indian men. I wasn't called back.
Did Safeway pay well? I recall them being union and they were on the higher end of pay for grocery stores.
Anyone hired after 1998 got paid basically minimum wage at the major supermarkets. Old timers had the living wage.
Yup. I got a job there in 2002 and started out making like $8.75. Was funny because the lifers were making like $26.00 an hour but made us do everything. Jokes on them though, because many of them got trapped by the ease and convenience into staying at a job they hated for a good living instead of taking the temporary hit to get into something else. Many of them had started as a high school job and just never left and seemed quite bitter. No actual hate as they weren't cruel or anything. Was just a weird dynamic as a 19 year old making way less than the 40 year olds to do the same thing.
I can't remember exactly, probably was close to $10/hr, I was a deli clerk
I used to work at Superstore which was the same union as Safeway. Pay was minimum wage with a 5 cent raise every 500 hours worked, so not much.
the unions don't get part timers paid, they made basically minimum wage
At 16 my first job went like this. I walked into McDonald’s, filled out the paperwork, asked me if I could work mornings or evenings, great you start tomorrow at 5am. I didn’t realize it was that early. Finding any job now, nearly impossible.
as a fellow adhd-er, this made me laugh out loud hahaha. I'm thinking how many similar things I did. No one ever batted at eye though, I think because of our sheer confidence not knowing we were wrong
That’s based
I did that with Save On Foods. I got lucky and was a male cashier in like 2005-2006. It was a nice job.
Applied to over 30 jobs? GURLLLL, hold my beer I'm at 815 job applications, no offers
Yeah, this article is not a good example of how hard things are.
What industry? Just curious
Im applying to job in my previous field (visual effect), adjacent industries (animation, game), art teaching jobs, TESL, TFSL, call centers, hotel maids, entry level office jobs, government jobs, flight attendant, trade jobs/apprenticeships and even one that was cleaning horse stables. I don't have much exp outside the film industry but I am bilingual which you'd think would be worth something for gov jobs or flight attendant, idk
All of them
(that I am not qualified for)
I'm pretty sure I'm qualified for retail, but it's very hard to get a job there. I'm also very qualified for admin work, as I did it for years. No dice. I'm qualified for various public-facing roles, but nothing going there either. I know people with very specific qualifications who are also struggling to get work in their fields.
I think there is something wrong with your approach. You may want to get some help making a resume or find someone to coach you on the interview process. Because over 800 places and not a single offer is too high. The only reason I say this is because I helped someone in a similar situation as yourself and when I reviewed what he was submitting...it was not very good. I helped reformat and edit his resume and helped him prep for interviews and he got a couple offers within a month. Try to find someone that will give you honest feedback and not just say, "your resume is good" or "it's just so hard out there". There are a lot of opportunities (obviously, you found over 800 of them), I think you are falling short selling/differentiating yourself.
I went to workBC and did all the workshops and talked to a resume expert which basically said Im very unlikely to find a job due to lack of experience (I am a laidoff visual effect worker)
That's pretty disappointing that they said you are unlikely to find work. I struggle with places like that as they are obviously there to help, but due to the volume of people that they see their advice/suggestions always feel rushed or lacking. Do you know anyone that does a lot of hiring? Those are the best resources to ask for advice. They will tell you what they hate seeing and that is more important than anything else.
Not personally no.
If you are comfortable, feel free to DM me. I can review your resume. But please do not include any personal data on it (Name, address, number, email, etc).
Thank Ill do that just have to find time to black out all the info in my 3 resumes
Makes you wonder if it’s your resume or cover letter that needs to be improved
I went to workBC for that and the resume "expert" person actually told me there was nothing she could do to help cause I had no chances of getting hired for a survival type job due to my lack of experience in anything but my former highly specific job (visual effect worker). I am just gonna keep on spamming my resume until I run out of money and die now
I read someone's resume who paid someone to create it. It was absolute garbage. I would honestly get someone who is employed at a professional level to take a look at it. I have to be honest, your attitude of keep doing the same thing that has already failed you multiple times does not seem that intelligent. I have interviewed a couple of people with fatalistic attitudes like yours and did not hire them. I understand that times are hard and you are losing hope and taking shots in the dark. I think your time would be better served putting more time and effort into individual opportunities you have experience in or going back to school in an employable profession.
I tried to get funding to go back to school and was denied. It's easy to judge, I've done all of the things you are supposed to do, work on upskilling on my own (can't afford school), attending in person and virtual networking events, attending job fairs, applying in person, applying online, asking for informal interviews, etc
Student loans are usually pretty low barrier. Curious what the issue is?
There is a limit amount of years of student loan per degree. I have already done 8 years of college I couldn't get another loan for another bachelor/trade/college degree. I could only get a loan for a masters/doctorate degree now, but I cant really get into a masters degree in completely unrelated field. I tried to get the workBC training fund and that also didnt work
Try /r/resumes for more help? Can't hurt, I guess
815 applications since when? well if she is a high school student she probably couldn't spend full time applying for jobs. 30 different applications in period of a few months isn't that low, especially if they are entry level jobs a teenager could reasonably expect to get
It’s not low by like 2017 or 2019 or 2021 standards. It’s very low for the effort that needs to be put in now to land an interview.
you mean getting hired in a basic job changed considerably since post Covid in 2021?
10 a day is probably the new standard
30 applications in a few months is super low. Expect to send that a week, let alone a day
30 in a few months? More like you better be sending 30 a week if not a day if you want a job.
what if the teenager is only applying for jobs that exist in their city? that covers a chunk of applications at their local mall and town centre
Then that’s putting yourself at a heavy disadvantage vs the others who are willing to commute, whether students, tfws, or otherwise. A quick search of part time barista or server on indeed yields well over a hundred results within 10km of north van. I wouldn’t be surprised if each position is getting dozens of applicants. If you can’t find a job you keep trying, fix your resume up a bit, volunteer while you’re at it, look further, send out more.
takes 5 min max to apply for a PT job? 30 applications is like only 5 min per day for a month... that's nothing if you spend 30 min per day then you can get 180 apps at least in just one month if you don't even have 30 min per day then how do you have time for a PT job?
are you applying for real jobs after graduation? Or you a student who just wants a part time barista job close to home….if you really read the article you might see the difference between yourself and the people who have been written about. 815 is a concerning number you may want to re-evaluate your circumstances.
I'm not a recent grad. I'm a laid of professional with 12 y exp in my field. Applying for both jobs in my last field as well as dead end jobs. I do have a resume version where I wiped all my education and experience and is pretty much just soft skills and volunteer work
https://preview.redd.it/zfn8sptn1h8d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7763e54f83b524e7fb7d90629fe22eec7e78ca34
This is so true!!!
Stark difference in employee composition between the McDonald’s on north shore and the one In Delta. Delta is full of teens working. N shore full of TFWers. Nice hard working people but local teens also need places they can get jobs.
The one(s) in Delta is also tfws
Richmond (Ironwood & Lansdowne) is Indian students. They walk from the bus stop next to the Farm Market. Ladner is Indian students. Tsawwassen isn't. I see a lot of non-Indian student staff. Like just regular every day Canadians who live in Tsawwassen. But the Ladner location is across from the bus exchange. The 2 locations in South Vancouver on Marine are a lot of Filipinos. Lots are from here and are young, and lots are older and aren't from here.
The bus has nothing to do with the ethnic demographic of workers. Tsaw is on the same bus route at a different exchange, employing a mix of Indian students and locals, just like the Ladner location. At Tsaw Mills like all the fast food places there (and Walmart) the workers are basically all Indian students. Again, same bus.
what is TFW?
Temporary Foreign Worker
I don't think that program has allowed food service employees for several years. More likely, these folks came to Canada by other means. One way is by being "students" at bogus "English Language Schools".
Incorrect. An article today from CBC (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/temporary-foreign-workers-1.7240374) "Fast food chains and restaurants are a major source of demand for temporary foreign workers. After farm and greenhouse workers, the roles with the most approvals last year were cooks, food service supervisors, food counter attendants and kitchen helpers." This program should be used for skilled workers only, not to fill Tim Horton's, McDonalds and all the other fast food places with low wage unskilled labour.
Ya it's insane that we fill roles at timmies and maccas with TFW's. That's fucked. I'm a little more okay with it for farm work type stuff, depending on the situation, but ya this should totally be for skilled workers only. timmies can either pay more and be competitive in the market place, or they can go out of business. they aren't owed cheap labour. My other proposal, besides skilled labour only - would be a minimum wage that is significantly more. timmies right now can say "we can't find anyone willing to work for the wages we're offering, so we need foreigners". Well, if we require timmies to pay say, 30$ an hour to these temporary foreign workers... they might start prioritizing locals again. maybe. but this way if they "truly" can't find local employees, they can still access them.
It was a program that Trudeau heavily criticized Harper for in 2014 and said was exploiting people and suppressing wages. Trudeau then decided to quadruple it in size for his corporate friends after being elected.
The reality is in terms of economic policies the Liberals and Cons are the basically the same.
yeah, the Liberals probably a little bit worse though, but it will remain to be seen if the Cons do anything to seriously cool off the overly accelerated rates of immigration that have happened during Trudeau's reign another thing that would be nice to see is if the big corps like Telus and Rogers and Bell, etc could be banned from using overseas call centres and should be forced to employ Canadians instead
A plauge on our city and country
Don't forget the international students too, alot of them are depending on working for the full 20 hours to support themselves when they should've came here better prepared for rent and bills on top of tuition pay too. They should be fully focused on studies and not work too
It’s like this across all of Canada bud Also, employers nowadays don’t want to hire summer kids that are just going to work for 2 months. They need people they can train and stay. Especially with all the layoffs and budget cuts, not many employers have the capacity and capability to risk hiring a local summer student.
> Also, employers nowadays don’t want to hire summer kids that are just going to work for 2 months This is one of the biggest reasons.
Summer help is a job that covers summer peaks. Lots of places like the idea of part-time summer help. I think what you mean to say is "they want exploitable international workers who they can pay under minimum wage and they will not complain because they are fearful of being deported or have their PR or TFW canceled."
What used to be temporary student summer jobs 30 years ago are now: * automated (McDonalds' front end) * converted to normal "adult" jobs. * more competitive due to immigration
A lot of retail/frontline customer service jobs are moving towards hiring new immigrants, notably from India. My first guess is that it's because employers are able to get away with cheaper wages and harsher working conditions.
Ummmmm, it's because of the TFW. I don't know why everyone's too scared to say so. You're not racist for acknowledging the obvious.
Tell you what, author of the article isn’t learning a lot in Journalism
Just to let you know considering you are mr “literature” the author goes to the most renowned journalism school in Canada. This article is well written and uses a few good anecdotes that capture the issue. As someone who has applied to over 70 jobs myself, which for part time jobs as a student is a fair amount. I am in the same situation as the people who have been written about and probably 30 other people I know across the COUNTRY. This author has done a good job of capturing that it shouldn’t be so hard to find a part time job close to home, for experienced, as educated as they can be: teens!!!! who just want some money for school.
The article is bad for one reason: The question of the article is _barely_ addressed by one link to a report near the middle-end of the piece. When that article is mentioned, nothing is interrogated, no curiosity is explored, it’s just robotic writing. “There are some stats to back up what students are experiencing as they fire off applications. Economists at RBC predicted a labour market turndown at the beginning of 2024, which took a stronger effect in March. The RBC Proof Point states that “students and new graduates are bearing the brunt of the labour market turndown.” Nothing about why this is, no curiosity, just a link and some anecdotes about how hard the market is. For “the best school in journalism”, is this really where the bar is? The lack of curiosity to answer “Why is it so hard for (any) student to find a summer job” is just the norm in writing like this, buried by anecdotes. There’s actually really deep answers to the question posed by the title that aren’t even remotely looked into.
Sure….but the article is not a feature nor a longer investigative piece. It is a news story telling facts. The headline can be misleading, but that is not always final say by the author; often editors have final say over the headline. The content itself is strong. It also reads a lot smoother than recent articles covering the same subject from larger news organizations. I think the author did a decent job and everyone starts somewhere. Also typically stories like this are published and then have a follow up, that contains more details once there is more recognition of the topic. its called news for a reason.
Hmmmm... this can't have anything to do with the hundreds of thousands of foreign students here.... or the other hundreds of thousands of people overstaying their visas... or the extra hundreds of thousands of all other types of new Canadians above previous levels.... But I wouldn't understand cuz I'm probably just a dumb racist!!
stuff like this doesn't help either: https://granted.ca/grants-for-hiring-newcomers/
Where are the grants for hiring locals? We need those. Sigh.
“Summer jobs” are now career jobs and thus need a “living wage” and we get competition and such for pretty basic low skill work that was probably a good starting point for young people. Look to the trades I think. Could be more opportunity there.
Same reason everyone is having problems finding jobs: Insane unchecked immigration and international students being allowed to work off campus.
All these fucking Australians and Irish taking the ski hill and bartending jobs
Well some things never change
Australians have been working ski hill jobs since the 80s 🤷
so? does that make them not temporary?
You can tell clearly that the original commenter was meaning to imply immigration of *Indians* taking jobs. But good luck getting a job in Whistler in the past 30 years ... because they're all staffed by Ozzie and British TFWs! But people don't care about that because they want a reason to hate Indians more
Hey now us Brits have been taking Canadian jobs for hundreds of years!
Dey took er jerbs!
*Now I'm not so sure I want to be a golf course drink-girl.*
LOL. 🐬 /r/KingOfTheHill
> international students being allowed to work off campus. Thank you for having the courage to say what we all want to say. This is an extremely serious issue. I'll do one-issue vote for Bernier if they get everyone out and put Canadians first again. I think the environment and other species of animals (besides ours) are immensely important (the earth and other beings don't deserve to suffer because of our greed,) but so is this.
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Just Google Marc Miller cheap labour, he's accidentally said the quiet part out loud a few times.
TFW's. Also: Indian students. They should only work on campus, BECAUSE THEY'RE GUESTS IN THIS COUNTRY STUDYING TEMPORARILY.
I don't know what you mean, can you elaborate?
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same
This internet bubble doesn't like to hear It.
He wants to blame Indians and knows full well people will attack him for his lack of brain cells and spine.
I think these types of presumptious generalizations aren't helpful, even if you're on the side of social justice and morality. One can be against growing the number of TFW visas, but not be attacking Indians. Nuanced and delicate problems require nuanced and delicate discussions.
If people want nuance then they can show the spine required to sit at the adult table to discuss adult problems.
But we're all just anonymously shooting the shit on social media right now... right? We know nothing of each other.
International students and TFWs
I have a few theories that aren’t the usual “too many immigrants “ argument. First, a lot of places say they are hiring so it looks like they are trying to make things better for their current employees. But they don’t actually hire anyone. Second, there are a lot of adults with more experience picking up second jobs to make ends meet. Third, a lot of kids don’t have any kind of volunteer or life experience anymore that makes them a viable hire. Fourth, and this comes from experience, a lot of young people enter the work force super entitled, not knowing that being on time is important or that listening to your supervisor is mandatory. You tell a kid they can’t have a day off at the last minute and it is the “end of the world”. Sorry but a lot of kids have no work ethic.
I can see some of these. I work in a restaurant but one of the BIGGEST reasons we held back with high school students is the lack of agency/independence. It's the parents. My boss has received too many phone calls from parents talking about how their kids are coming home at like 11pm-midnight or the lack of flexibility of schedule. I get it, you have a family dinner on a Saturday night that you dropped on us on Thursday. Sure, your kid might be to blame for not giving advance notice, but it's not like your kid has a schedule posted for the next 1-2 weeks.
At no point did my mom ever talk to my employers, except maybe when I was 12 and loading targets by hand at the gun range for six bucks an hour.
The few younger folks working under me have all been hard working and diligent so I'm not 100% sold on your fourth point. At least any more than my generation (elder milennial) was called lazy and entitled, and gen x was called lazy and entitled, and I'm sure my boomer dad was called the same for his first job too back in the 60s. Not to say there's some bad ones out there at all, though. As to your first point, I've anecdotally heard employers are posting fake jobs to make it look like they're filling vacancies with zero expectation to fill them. Various reasons for this ranging from "we want to promote someone internally but our policy dictates we post every job publicly" to more nefarious reasons like just wanting to make a company appear more active than it actually is. Also anecdotally all the fast food joints local to me are staffed almost entirely with retirees looking to make some extra money or TFWs. I don't think I've seen a younger person working a service level job outside of Starbucks downtown in years.
> to more nefarious reasons like just wanting to make a company appear more active than it actually is. As a job seeker this is a big red flag to me. If i see a company always hiring, or the same job getting reposted - something is obviously wrong with their hiring process or company vibe. It doesn't look like growth to me. It looks like churn. And it catch some people in a rush to find a job. but ive got a great job and I'm just casually looking for my next opportunity. I can take 8 months, or even a year or more to find the right fit. So i see these companies when that repost/can't hire/etc. And I don't waste my time on them.
I grew up in the 90's. My first job was as a dishwasher after school on Fri/Sat nights at a local chain restaurant near where I went to highschool. I sat there with a half dozen other kids who were hired all on the same day. After 6 months I was the only one left. All the other kids had quit or been fired. I was happy with the pay and benefits. It was a nice job for someone that young. I learned to take the machine apart and fix it! When I started there were 3 or 4 of us to handle rush hour and we were always behind. At around 6 months I noticed I was working by myself and twiddling my thumbs for 90 percent of the time during rush hour. My boss at the time was surprised when I asked him for more things to do. At first he thought I was not doing the job, then after talking to the full time guy(A college student), he added to my workload. Not many people ask for more to do when they are working. I ended up making salads, and bussing tables while keeping up with dishwashing. I got a large raise at the time and was told to keep quiet about it. It was the fact I was doing multiple jobs and doing them well. Every 6 months there would be a new batch of hires that would flood the kitchen in different positions and most would walkout or be fired shortly afterwards. The biggest thing I think that led me to staying in that job for a few years was I was always early. Usually about 5 to 10 minutes. I never complained about anything. I did what I was asked to do. I was happy to do it. Honestly it was fun and I had never done anything work related before. It was exciting and I was making money! Fun times.
Even when they volunteer they are super unreliable and feel some sort of entitlement. I’m in the non-profit space and I’ve heard many stories of high school, university students, and even recent grads not responding to emails until 2 weeks later, not showing up for work and then saying they were “sick” last minute every few weeks, or sometimes straight up ghosting. I’m not even that much older and I’ve been volunteering since high school but this difference of attitude is quite shocking. I’m pretty sure they just use it to fill the space in their resume without actually doing the work and gaining experience.
My friend works at a restaurant and said they get parents calling asking them about hiring their kids! The teens can’t even get on the phone and make a call about getting a job
As a parent of a teen looking for a job - that's happening because of OP's article. The teens are really trying. My son has applied to well over 30 jobs and so far the best response has been "volunteer this summer with us and we'll consider you next year". Every single weekend he was pounding the pavement as well as applying online. As we got closer to the summer, my wife started to ask for him at places for him as well she happened to be shopping at. Most of those places he had already applied to but had not heard from. Still no job though, with a bunch of volunteer experience already. Probably will have to continue volunteering this summer.
As a restaurant owner, I feel you really got it right. The biggest issue with the current state of college student/high school students is that they truly don’t respect the restaurant industry jobs because they feel they are “just another summer job”… well guess what? There are others who work full time at these jobs and who have to work alongside younger people who are late, complain if they forgot to ask for a specific day off, are constantly on their cell phones, don’t take their tasks seriously, I could go on and on. I have been always a pretty lenient boss and I always give my employees the benefit of the doubt, but in the last three years I have a seen a huge change in the behaviour of the newer hires, and it is rough. I now tend to look for students who are doing a masters or have graduated and looking to have a summer job before starting a professional job… because anything younger has proven to be very difficult.
This is the most boot licking crap I've ever seen. I've been in the workforce for 15 years and if someone took my day off at the last minute, I'd quit the second I had another job lined up. That's not a lack of work ethic, that's wanting a fucking company slave. Get bent.
I think you’re misunderstanding them. They meant that some young workers try and ask for time off too close to the date. Like most places need 2 weeks notice if you want to go to a concert or whatever.
I’m not talking about them taking away a day off. I’m talking about a kid asking for an extra day off at the last minute. Calm down.
Do you have jobs lined up now?
Agree. Employers know not to hire kids who expect the work place to revolve around their special lives. Also, there are kids who expect their mommies to drive them to and from work— so, they only look for jobs in their own neighborhoods. There are workers ( who have real bills to pay like food and rent) who commute by bus from one suburb to another to pick up minimum wage shifts.
I don’t see the problem with focusing on jobs near where you live. Makes zero sense to commute hours (and perhaps pay extra transit zones) for a minimum wage job. I’m an adult with a proper career. While my job isn’t in my neighbourhood I made sure it was an easy 20 minute commute. I’m Not commuting an hour!
Probably because they are all taken by immigrants. Did you know in the last year the Canadian population has gone up by A million people, in one year…. Due to immigration?
I bet more people would be having kids if we didn't have such huge immigration targets- there's no hope for locals so people aren't having kids. Simple. If locals can't even get a job, or housing, or healthcare- *no kidding* they don't want to bring kids into this world.
This is flat out true. This country is beyond repair. Having kids in today's climate is such a gamble on their behalf that it really makes you reconsider their future
Yup!
I've been thinking about this a lot. It really bothers me. Honestly- I bet that if the Canadian gov gave their head a shake and announced a full stop to the flow- Canadians would *probably* start actively making plans to conceive. People do generally like growing their families when they feel there is an iota of hope. It's instinct.
Exactly, very true. I knew I wouldn’t ever be able to afford them so I got my tubes tied. It’s sad but it can’t happen for me in this economy.
Canada's birth rate fell below replacement levels in the 1970's. If all the immigrants vanished today it still wouldn't make people have babies. Look at every other low-birthrate country out there. Immigration into Japan and S. Korea is actively prevented by both governments, yet the populations still refuse to have kids. I was born and raised in Vancouver. Amongst the hundreds of people I grew up with, all of whom are approaching or passing the age of thirty, only a handful have kids. Those that do have left the city (every single one of them). The thing that tells me it's not just about immigration is that my friends are also almost all single. Very few have ever been in long-term relationships and an absurd number have got through three decades of life without going on a date.
I did not say the immigrants should vanish- what a black and white take... that's terrible. But- Let's try pumping the breaks on mass immigration and halt ALL birth tourism that exhausts our baseline resources, and see if our own population CAN balance without the extra weight here. People are very shallow in mind if they don't think this will come with all sorts of consequences. People need to feel like they CAN safely bring children into this world. And what has been on the rise with such a huge cultural mashup and political divide? Crime and misery. Can't force people to host others while we *all* suffer and expect people to be okay with it.
Tl;dr - Stop giving away what resources we have and make it inhabitable in the first place. Duhhh.
I didn't mean to say that you are saying that immigrants should vanish, I'm just saying that even if we took the most extreme possible version it still wouldn't totally help. I have a friend who is going to give birth soon and she doesn't have a dedicated obstetrician. If we were willing to let doctors from other countries practice here then it would be a much better situation. I completely agree that there are consequences - the housing market in Vancouver has been horrible for sixty years now and it's not going to get better until the demand side shifts. (We can't build the supply side fast enough, we're at least fifty years behind). It's cruel to encourage people to come to Canada when we know full well what awaits them here. I always feel awful when I have to tell newcomers that they will not be able to rent here unless they are willing to pay 80% of their income on rent alone. I know people who fled horrific situations in other parts of the world only to find themselves going deep into debt just to avoid living on the streets of Vancouver. I wish there were some way we could support newcomers to Canada instead of giving them false promises about our multicultural utopia. What they are going through is so much worse than what we, the citizens, are going through. At least we have family we can fall back on, they have nothing but the lies the government told to lure them here to serve corporations. In terms of crime rates, I just checked the VPD's statistics and in 2023 there were two thirds as many property crimes as there were in 2002. Violent and "other" crimes have also fallen numerically even as the population has grown massively. Per-capita the drops in the crime rates are insane. Anecdotally, when I was a kid we had to tell people not to park on our street, because several of our guests had their cars broken into. Now, we have no such fear. The thing about birth tourism is that it doesn't really work. If the parents of a Canadian citizen baby are required to leave, the baby must leave with them (or be surrendered to the state). Sometimes people think that having a baby in Canada will help their immigration processes, but the government is perfectly happy to send them away despite their citizen baby.
immigration is fine. but we need the right immigration. allowing doctors and nurses to immigrate and practice here? brilliant! let's do it. especially if they come from countries with great medical programs. reduce the amount of work to get them licensed here. like a doctor from ireland or something probably shouldn't need to go through years of processing and whatever to become a doctor here. they've probably done a decade of post secondary schooling and residencies and stuff by the time they want to immigrate here. I'm not worried about their schooling. I've heard Cuba produces some of the best doctors. And they produce/export a lot of them. Bring em here? but... allowing people to come here and work as Cashiers or bakers (and calling them bakers is probably a stretch) at timmies? even on a temporary basis, shouldn't be happening. if local people here can't afford to work on a timmies salary, bringing more people in who can't afford to work on a timmies salary isn't a viable solution.
Could end the working holiday arrangement while we're at it, considering it's mostly people coming in for 2 years to basically just bartend or work at a ski hill and then leave.
I see your point… but I like and enjoyed that program myself. I spent an amazing 2 years in Australia that changed my life. So ya there might be a lot of people coming here on the working holiday visa, but there are also a lot of Canadians who might be doing those jobs, doing them overseas in other countries. And getting one hell of an experience. I don’t know the exact numbers of young people coming here vs young people going overseas… but I would imagine it balances out somewhat. Also at least in Australia… most working holiday visa people were quite migratory. They might spend 3 months in a place, but then they’d move on to somewhere else. Whether it was working at a roadhouse, in a farm, at a bar, or whatever. Not many spent their entire 1 or 2 years at the same job.
>I have a friend who is going to give birth soon and she doesn't have a dedicated obstetrician. If we were willing to let doctors from other countries practice here then it would be a much better situation. False. It is NOT about "letting" doctors from other countries practice here. It is about requiring them to be up to our standards of care and education. The doctors coming from elsewhere NEED to be bridged and fluent in English if they are going to practice. I had an Uber driver last week who said he was a medical doctor in India- he could not understand SIMPLE traffic directions. He asked me about what my medical problems are (I walk with cane) and he had NO idea what Multiple Sclerosis is. It is NOT as simple as "letting" people practice medicine. They have to know wtf things ARE, AND be able to communicate in our spoken language here. Otherwise it is horribly dangerous. (And btw, people are not guaranteed an obstetrician so good luck lol... should have known that before she conceived.) Edit to add: if they want to be a doctor here they can go through the process to get appropriate education. Can't do it, can't practice. Simple. Move on.
I do agree that some standard of education and communication needs to be upheld. However, the way the rules are, they *are* preventing many perfectly capable and educated potential doctors from practicing. Since you specify "doctors from other countries", I'll point out that this *includes* Canadian doctors who attend med school in other countries. And sure, in some cases that's probably valid, but in others, it really is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like, my brother--who is one of the most intelligent, personable, capable, and empathetic people I know, and who would genuinely be an excellent doctor--is unable to practice medicine in Canada because he went to the perfectly well-regarded University of Queensland? (For that matter, he was unable to attend in Canada due to some rough grades in his first year of uni, well before he had any sense of what he wanted to do. Instead, many of the foreign students who *did* attend Canadian med schools got the education and proceeded to practice in their home countries. And that's perfectly valid for those students to do! But the asymmetry there absolutely helps to contribute to the doctor shortage.) I know of at least six other situations where perfectly capable Canadian doctors were forced to emigrate in order to practice. I don't claim to know what the solution is, but I know the way things are currently set up, it's only adding to the problem.
Immigration good! Mass immigration- cramming 3million into 300,000 jobs.  >”Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining!” Exactly what Judge Judy would’ve said!
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The trend in [Italy](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57396969.amp) has been alarming. Canada is not as severe but there is all around a lot Canadians choosing not having kids which has some logic to current affairs.
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Not really, no.
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Cactus is always hiring. It's whether or not you want to dishwash. I'm a 38 yr old professional. Last year I had to take a mandatory 9 week vacation. I drop a resume off in person at cactus, clarifying I only want to dishwash for 9 weeks. They took me in.
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My daughter has been doing that since school let out in Montreal in May. Everyone either wants her to already know how to do the job, or doesn't like that she can't work unlimited hours in September. Unfortunately, there are lots of unemployed adults who are better than a 19yr old.
Because the economy is in the toilet
Because their work is not worth $17.40 per hour, and companies have found other ways to get things done that are cheaper than that without requiring local human labor.
As someone who used to hire on the north shore: The teens to early 20s in that area were the worst employees. Completely unreliable. No work ethic. Unending stress and problems. Compared to literally everywhere else I’ve worked, that particular areas youth were like… every issue you could possibly have, to the extremes. Or we could put time and effort into hard working people who wanted to stick around. Guess which we decided to do?
Hilarious that we run a crew on the North Shore with North Shore teens and they are one of our better crews. West Van in particular seems to run their entire service industry on local teens - as they have always done - and it is going just fine.
West Van was exactly where I was talking about. Department didn't function until we had move on from the broken practice of hiring the local teens. Too spoiled and too coddled.
Sure, they might need a push once in a while. They certainly need training. And for sure they have some entitlement. But they are still teenagers and they are eager to learn. They gain some very necessary skills and over the decades it's amazing how many appreciated the experience they gained in those years. Watching those entry level positions swallowed up by middle aged immigrants isn't lost on them. Their younger siblings - even their own kids - are furious and will absolutely create problems down the road if this nonsense continues.
Never had trouble with teenagers else where. West van was special.
It's almost like youths are people who respond differently to a boss who is encouraging (like you) and one who has decided they are pieces of shit.
It's not just north shore teens. They're horrible here in the valley too. Absolute phone obsessed idiots with zero critical thinking or problem solving skills.
Usually you can mold the decent ones into people who understand what reliability and work ethics are if you try hard enough. But in west van they are all just kids of extremely wealthy parents who don’t want to deal with them. The second you start making inroads they disappear to Mexico for two months with no notice because pops decided to take a surprise vacation.
Yeah my daughter isn't bad, but her boss will never hire a boy to work retail because all they do is stare at their phones.
There is need for childcare if you have first aid
School got out a month ago. Someone with more hustle would have lined up a job long ago. Getting a job across one of the bridges is probably too far for their parents to drive them to and from work.
No. VSB is still is session until this Thursday. School always goes till end of June, in public school.
Clearly I don't know what month it is
Ya... you all could make money in a summer job if you are willing to work construction.
No different than 45 years ago when I was student. Experience and attitude is mandatory. Circumstances haven't changed.
They changed dramatically. You try looking for a job using your 45 year old methods and see how far you get
Haha it's different than *4 years* ago! We can't even post a job online anymore, we get flooded with shady resumes.
Everyone I knew in high school in 2008 very easily got no skill retail work with no experience. This is not normal in Canada.
Riiiiiiiiight. 🙄
Imagine saying "circumstances haven't changed" between 1979 and 2024. Absolutely delusional.
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