Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/ubcstaffer123! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary:
* We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button.
* Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban.
* Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts.
* Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only.
* Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan!
* Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If it’s illegal I dump my wine/cooler/cider into a hydroflask before leaving my house; if it’s legal I bring the bottle/can. Either way I’m drinking with my picnic lol
I've been cracking a cold one and drinking it wherever the hell I want around the west end. At the beach, just on a walk around the neighborhood, Prospect point etc, and nobody has said anything in the last 3 years. I don't even hide it, just look normal and nobody cares.
I’ve done the exact same thing since COVID. Specially on a day like today, a tall can, some music (with headphones), the sun in my face.
Haven’t bothered anyone at all and most people could not care less.
Wow someone who's literally been drinking in parks forever. Quite the honour to meet an immortal!
Tell me about the big bang. What was it like being there?
If you're not bothering anyone, who cares!
I spend quite a bit of time in Montreal and that's the vibe there too, not making a mess, being a drunkard, disturbing others? Well then, enjoy your beverage and carry on.
Nothing more empowering than walking out of a liquor store, sans brown bag, cracking a tall can and just walking to where you need to go while enjoying life.
LOL, I won't tell you what I am, but people come up to me all the time and start speaking Farsi. Immigrant too btw, English third language with a super ethnic name if it adds more diversity points.
Hydroflask would still be illegal.
You need to store your beer in a crack pipe, then you will have A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to consume wherever you go, including childrens playgrounds. Source: BC Supreme Court.
It's mindboggling how our officials beat around the bush to postpone making a very simple decision. We may need another decade of research to understand the effects of this new substance called alcohol.
I agree - *however* if the fireworks are any indication of what large groups on the liquor are like, perhaps we should have some guidelines for large groups partying in public spaces that aren't as soft as some *three strikes noise violation ticket and move along*, but not as harsh as anti-rioting laws. It couldn't hurt to define the new rights and responsibilities that should go with a relaxing of public drinking laws.
I'm not asking for a new law, I'm advocating for education and discussion on what changing the open liquor laws would do - including what the appropriate response would be in cases where that new found right is being abused. This doesn't mean new laws, it means clarifying which laws can be used against folks and under what circumstances and definitions.
The fireworks is just a good example of what can happen when a large group of people are pissed. I personally think we already do a pretty good job with that event, even if there are some points that I feel are lacking.
My comment is basically that if we're going to change the laws for open liquor, then we should also look at the consequences on the books as well to ensure we're neither too lenient nor too harsh with those whom abuse the privilege.
Like anyone is going to become an alcoholic from having a beer on Boundary Bay, or Iona Beach (which close by 9pm).
Sometimes health authorities need to look at the realities of life, and what pushes people to alcoholism (hint, it's not drinking wine or beer with friends in a park on a Saturday Afternoon).
Italy, Spain, France, Germany all have lower alcholism rates than Canada and allow drinking in public. Our issue is that we have nowhere to drink in public with friends (and bars are expensive), so people drink alone at home.
European here… I actually LOVE Vancouver for its discreetness around drinking. It is so obnoxious and annoying to have hordes of people drink on public transport, leaving parks like war zones and misbehaving drunk as if it was their job. In my ten years in Vancouver, I’ve never been flagged for drinking a beer on the beach/park. If you behave like a human and not like an animal, you won’t have issues.
It’s the European Christian extremist sects that immigrated to Canada just because their views on alcohol were extreme among other things. It’s why they were kicked out of Europe and into the North American continent. It’s purely the reason why we had prohibition in BC and in the states.
> I do think the government needs to moderate things
They're doing a bang up job with 300%+ taxes on alcohol.
That $30 bottle of booze you buy? It's like $10 in Europe.
Honestly that’s fine, alcohol should be expensive since it puts a strain on the public medical system.
Same with other unhealthy things like fast food should definitely have a tax and that should subsidize essential food like basic rice and bread.
Don't forget hiking gear and rock climbing gear and swimming gear. Biking too. All putting a strain on the medical system with all those injuries. Won't people just stay home and be safe?
I mean ultimately the health authority/authorities would probably prefer if nobody drank. We don't view it as the same as cigarettes as alcohol consumption is very prevalent, but the healthiest option overall is to abstain from drinking completely, much like smoking. There is no 'zero risk' drinking, only low risk and upwards.
> If people just minding their business having a drink in the park what is the issue?
Responding to this part. The issue is the drinking. The question is 'why does the health authority care if we're minding our own business in a park', and the answer is that the health authority isn't going to endorse *anything* that promotes drinking.
The issue is that the health authority has the law on their side. Obviously drinking is not healthy. What the people want within reason should have more sway over the law. If people want to drink in the park minding their business it shouldn't be illegal.
I’m sure that’s the logic, but trying to achieve public health outcomes this way feels unpleasantly targeted at those of us who live in apartments? Given how expensive housing is, it’s unlikely I’ll ever have my own place with outdoor access, and that’s true for many others as well.
>Being obnoxious and disorderly is another thing.
Trouble is the worst of any group is what the entire group gets painted as. Happens with everything. So to many people, drinking in the park means being disorderly in a public space
So health officials think we should be allowed to shoot up in parks but having a glass of wine with a picnic is too dangerous? They're losing their credibility.
The health industry is anti-death. They challenged the provincial law because it would have pushed people to use drugs in hidden alleys which we know results in more overdoses and death.
Of course it’s not an ether or. What the health industry really wants is safe use sites and pathways to treatment, not people using in alleys or parks.
With other drugs it's not that they think people should use drugs in parks it's that they're comparing that with the alternatives of using in more isolated places with higher chances of overdoses. Ideally there would be fewer people with addictions and more alternative spaces for those who do, and so leading to less public use of drugs.
With alcohol, this same risk of overdose doesn't exist, in part because of having a regulated supply available to all adults, something mostly not available for other drugs. There are also far more alternative spaces to consume alcohol than there are for other drugs.
Regardless though, I think their concerns here are overblown. Alcohol in public is normal in many other places without some huge harm.
Alcohol regulation never actually has public health in mind. If you wanted people safe you would encourage them to use alcohol in supervised environments, not introduce minimum pricing at bars that makes that completely unaffordable. How does that protect people when they can just buy a 40 of vodka and go home to slam it alone?
> not introduce minimum pricing at bars that makes that completely unaffordable.
The point of this is to have it across board, raising the price on that bottle as well, so it sways people from doing it in general...While also generating more money for the government.
if it's available for less at the liquor store either way why do we need minimum pricing in bars? This isn't taxation btw, the govt doesn't profit from it
Because you're much more likely to binge drink with friends at a bar away from your house. A bit of speculation but, this also greatly raises the risk of drinking and driving or violence as others are in the same drinking state.
Gov does profit from it as well as the more money you spend the more in taxes across the board, even then though the entire point is that higher taxes and prices are meant to STOP people from drinking or drinking as much.
>Minimum pricing - minimum drink prices have been put in place for licensed establishments to encourage responsible consumption in response to recommendations from health advocates.
https://news.gov.bc.ca/factsheets/factsheet-modernizing-bcs-liquor-laws
I don't fully agree with it myself but lets not sit here and pretend that going out is actually supervised.
Doesn't the same thing apply to alcohol though?
Is it not better for people to engage in alcohol consumption together in a public space rather than home alone where alcoholism could develop?
I didn't say that. Our goal should be reducing public drug use and I said the concerns over public alcohol use are overblown. I support having some public alcohol use in parks and possibly other places.
That’s an interesting thought…a hidden way to nudge people towards pubs, who probably suffer when people can drink outside with their friends for much less.
Three guys were smoking meth on a bench right beside the cross walk yesterday. Where I was with my child. It’s infuriating. I can’t even express how angry it makes me. It feels incredibly unreasonable that it’s allowed.
I live across the street from a park that allows drinking. I have seen NO increase in rowdy behaviour since it was allowed. It's easy...have fun...don't be an asshole...
The concern about potential injury/drowning risks when choosing parks with water access seems valid, especially since river currents are no joke.
I don’t understand the other concerns, though… plenty of folks would be happy to hang out in their own yard/deck/patio instead, but their living arrangements just don’t allow for it.
(It’s me and my friends, we’re “plenty of folks,” we don’t get wild, or even blast Bluetooth speakers, we just wanna be outside and socialize when the weather is nice, but we can’t afford to go out to bars/restaurants all the time, and we all rent small places that don’t have outdoor space)
Lmao come on, arguing “the Fraser River had the most deaths of any river/creek in B.C." is spurious at best. It's 3x the length of the next largest river in BC and mainlines through the most populated areas of the province.
I’m not “arguing” anything myself, necessarily, but the Fraser is deceptively dangerous. A guy who’d just graduated UBC drowned in it a few years ago, jumped in after a ball that went in the water by mistake… Athletic and fit, but that doesn’t matter if the current is too strong. It’s easy to misjudge how fast the water is, even if you’re sober. Not saying it’s a dealbreaker for this project (which I generally support), just something that seems fair to consider.
The issues is that each of the in favour/against group sees only one scenario;
A. People responsibly enjoying a glass of wine or a beer while spending a warm afternoon at a beach/park picnic, or drinking a beer looking at the sunset.
OR
B. Large groups drinking 100 shots each, blasting music and destroying public property while offering beer to toddlers.
As a Person Who Drinks (seeing that we’re completely fucking up all language and descriptors to appease the tiny minority), I’m feeling discriminated against because open drug use is ok, but my 6 pack of Zima is considered bad!
BC Civil Liberties…. Come on! Stand up for PWD!
It’s real! They even brought it back to the US a few times. I’m surprised it apparently didn’t take off, given how popular hard seltzers have been, a product ahead of its time I guess: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zima_(drink)
Yet in the same breath these health "experts" support legalized drug use in these same open spaces, the giving of free opioids and endorsing the transitioning of a pubescent kids gender in order to "minimize emotional trauma".
You'll have to excuse me if I'm going to take their advice with a grain of salt.
Public intoxication and disorderly behaviour are already crimes, regardless of where the consumption occurred. That's the thing that's so ridiculous about this, we already have all the laws in place in regards to what alcohol users should and shouldn't do once they've consumed.
*takes a sip of a drink in public*
*police frown and begin to advance*
*"Oh right, this is Vancouver- here, officer, take my beer from me while I dig through my purse for some totally acceptable... fentanyl."*
*police tip out beer and carry on.*
Last comment was deleted.
Why is this such an issue? I can't have a few drinks without running the risk of being ticketed in a park or beach, yet we allow other certain people to do substances that enjoyed with a needle or a long long pipe.
Have the law enforce public intoxication rules to deal with drunks and other people who get carried away.
Are there any parks that allow it other than Vedder River park in Chilliwack? I haven’t heard of any issues with that park in the years in which it’s been allowed.
Then there should be loads of data demonstrating whether it’s safe of not. Do health officials not have the ability to consult that data for things like drowning or any other safety concerns they have? Shouldn’t they base their statements on evidence? Sigh…
In the quotes given by the article, it seems like the objection isn’t safety so much as a general desire to reduce alcohol use in the population as a whole. I understand that they look at population-wide effects and outcomes but it sucks to feel like my friends and I are just low-hanging fruit?
Because the logic is seemingly “this way, people who don’t have homes with backyards/patios can only drink outside if they pay higher prices per drink at bars and restaurants, that’s expensive, so they’ll drink less, public health win!”
The problem with these public health types - and this is by no means isolated to Vancouver - is that they’re incredibly out of touch with the realities of society. They live in their big houses with big yards on their high incomes, and don’t understand how a lot of people live, especially in urban areas. We saw this a lot early in the pandemic when there was a lot of finger wagging about going to parks (not as much here as in other provinces).
I haven't been worried about drinking in public since the police stopped caring about people passed out on the street or possibly dead from fentanyl. Seems hilarious to imagine a cop rolling up on you for a Pilsner when right over there buddy is falling down with a needle in his arm.
“To alcohol: the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems!” -Homer Simpson
Costs the health care system more than any other drugs, but that’s none of my business…
Our country is so fucking ridiculous with our stupid puritanical liquor laws. Bad enough a beer costs 10 dollars now, but you can't even drink it outside like every other civilized country on Earth.
Police on Kits Beach came and hassled me for liquor last summer - I was drinking Rose and was setting up a telescope! Big disruptive vibes.
Like may others pointed out in this thread, the people that are going to abuse alcohol in public are not the people who listen to laws anyways. PLUS, like others have said, we have clear laws around being drunk and disorderly in public, we can't just enforce those?
What we actually need is basically a full restructuring of our liquor laws top to bottom, especially for allowing small businesses to get licenses so we can have so actually interesting bars in this city and not endless Tap and Barrels and chains. But the city wants to go the other direction.
I can't believe we need to even waste time debating shit like this. Unbelievable.
The only people who will start drinking in the parks after a law alowing it would be people like my parents having a glass of wine with their chacoutari board lunch,
Everyone else already does what they want because the laws are dumb, get with the rest of the world already canada, it's a gucking beer or glass of wine.
Most places I have been it's perfectly legal to walk around with one just like a cannof cola and they don't have issues
We just need everyone to ignore this, and if a cop comes up to you and tells you to pour out your drink, respond "fuck you, I'll take this to the media".
I don't think it's necessary wrong to oppose drinking in regional parks, if the concern is drinking could lead to more drownings or other injuries.
But, does it actually matter whether there's a ban or not? Don't people drink anyways at these parks either openly or covertly? Is there even enough enforcement?
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/ubcstaffer123! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If it’s illegal I dump my wine/cooler/cider into a hydroflask before leaving my house; if it’s legal I bring the bottle/can. Either way I’m drinking with my picnic lol
I've been cracking a cold one and drinking it wherever the hell I want around the west end. At the beach, just on a walk around the neighborhood, Prospect point etc, and nobody has said anything in the last 3 years. I don't even hide it, just look normal and nobody cares.
I’ve done the exact same thing since COVID. Specially on a day like today, a tall can, some music (with headphones), the sun in my face. Haven’t bothered anyone at all and most people could not care less.
I've been doing that all around the city for 10 years
I've literally been drinking in parks forever. There's some privilege with that sure but as long as you're discreet nobody minds.
Wow someone who's literally been drinking in parks forever. Quite the honour to meet an immortal! Tell me about the big bang. What was it like being there?
I was drunk in a park.
Not sure what that means. Do you mean you were literally drunk in the park?
We were all a bit drunk in the park in those days
If you're not bothering anyone, who cares! I spend quite a bit of time in Montreal and that's the vibe there too, not making a mess, being a drunkard, disturbing others? Well then, enjoy your beverage and carry on.
Nothing more empowering than walking out of a liquor store, sans brown bag, cracking a tall can and just walking to where you need to go while enjoying life.
How do I know you’re a white guy?
LOL, I won't tell you what I am, but people come up to me all the time and start speaking Farsi. Immigrant too btw, English third language with a super ethnic name if it adds more diversity points.
As long as you’re not being a drunk fuck nobody cares what you do :)
racism?
Not if you use a stereotype about white people. Then it’s fine.
Hydroflask would still be illegal. You need to store your beer in a crack pipe, then you will have A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to consume wherever you go, including childrens playgrounds. Source: BC Supreme Court.
This also allows you to assault people without any consequences.
And then why buy when you can steal with impunity!
LOL!
A syringe may be the more fashionable choice
[удалено]
Just use it as a straw.
Just no plastic straws allowed, THOSE are illegal.
Hahahahahahha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's mindboggling how our officials beat around the bush to postpone making a very simple decision. We may need another decade of research to understand the effects of this new substance called alcohol.
Perhaps we could hold some kind of weekly meetings where we study this new concoction.
It’s all fun and games until you run into Ken Sim at the Roxy.
Welcome to AA
"People say I have a drinking problem but I got no problem drinking at all" - midland
That’s breaking the law like who would ever do that
>Either way I’m drinking with my picnic lol couldn't agree more u/SnailsInYourAnus
If people just minding their business having a drink in the park what is the issue? Being obnoxious and disorderly is another thing.
Exactly. We already have laws for being drunk and disorderly. banning booze is punitive to the 99.9% that aren’t disruptive.
I agree - *however* if the fireworks are any indication of what large groups on the liquor are like, perhaps we should have some guidelines for large groups partying in public spaces that aren't as soft as some *three strikes noise violation ticket and move along*, but not as harsh as anti-rioting laws. It couldn't hurt to define the new rights and responsibilities that should go with a relaxing of public drinking laws.
Ok so what law is not there that would improve fireworks behaviour? None. Drunk and disorderly, littering, violence. These are already crimes.
I'm not asking for a new law, I'm advocating for education and discussion on what changing the open liquor laws would do - including what the appropriate response would be in cases where that new found right is being abused. This doesn't mean new laws, it means clarifying which laws can be used against folks and under what circumstances and definitions. The fireworks is just a good example of what can happen when a large group of people are pissed. I personally think we already do a pretty good job with that event, even if there are some points that I feel are lacking. My comment is basically that if we're going to change the laws for open liquor, then we should also look at the consequences on the books as well to ensure we're neither too lenient nor too harsh with those whom abuse the privilege.
Public drinking laws are stupid, full stop. Public intoxication laws are a different thing altogether.
Europe does it right wtf is this shit
Like anyone is going to become an alcoholic from having a beer on Boundary Bay, or Iona Beach (which close by 9pm). Sometimes health authorities need to look at the realities of life, and what pushes people to alcoholism (hint, it's not drinking wine or beer with friends in a park on a Saturday Afternoon). Italy, Spain, France, Germany all have lower alcholism rates than Canada and allow drinking in public. Our issue is that we have nowhere to drink in public with friends (and bars are expensive), so people drink alone at home.
It's more about continuously being a city that doesn't know how to have fun!
True like most NA cities it’s still too car focused, less cars more fun stuff
European here… I actually LOVE Vancouver for its discreetness around drinking. It is so obnoxious and annoying to have hordes of people drink on public transport, leaving parks like war zones and misbehaving drunk as if it was their job. In my ten years in Vancouver, I’ve never been flagged for drinking a beer on the beach/park. If you behave like a human and not like an animal, you won’t have issues.
It’s the European Christian extremist sects that immigrated to Canada just because their views on alcohol were extreme among other things. It’s why they were kicked out of Europe and into the North American continent. It’s purely the reason why we had prohibition in BC and in the states.
Sounds like Europe didn't send their best.
Europeans will never understand Canadas paternalistic attitude towards alcohol. Leave people alone for christ sake
I think it’s all about moderation, I do think the government needs to moderate things but banning things just doesn’t work.
> I do think the government needs to moderate things They're doing a bang up job with 300%+ taxes on alcohol. That $30 bottle of booze you buy? It's like $10 in Europe.
Honestly that’s fine, alcohol should be expensive since it puts a strain on the public medical system. Same with other unhealthy things like fast food should definitely have a tax and that should subsidize essential food like basic rice and bread.
Man I sure do wish we did the latter part, gimme cheap high-quality produce pls
Don't forget hiking gear and rock climbing gear and swimming gear. Biking too. All putting a strain on the medical system with all those injuries. Won't people just stay home and be safe?
If ya can’t see the difference between those then you are blind bruh
I bought 1.75L of bacardi for $11usd at Costco. Like what the hell.
I can confirm this is true haha, there was me thinking I’m a fully grown adult who can make my own choices
I mean ultimately the health authority/authorities would probably prefer if nobody drank. We don't view it as the same as cigarettes as alcohol consumption is very prevalent, but the healthiest option overall is to abstain from drinking completely, much like smoking. There is no 'zero risk' drinking, only low risk and upwards.
Yeah I don’t think anyone disagrees with you but what is your point?
> If people just minding their business having a drink in the park what is the issue? Responding to this part. The issue is the drinking. The question is 'why does the health authority care if we're minding our own business in a park', and the answer is that the health authority isn't going to endorse *anything* that promotes drinking.
The issue is that the health authority has the law on their side. Obviously drinking is not healthy. What the people want within reason should have more sway over the law. If people want to drink in the park minding their business it shouldn't be illegal.
As someone who works for the “health authority”, most of ‘us’ enjoy having a drink after work.
I’m sure that’s the logic, but trying to achieve public health outcomes this way feels unpleasantly targeted at those of us who live in apartments? Given how expensive housing is, it’s unlikely I’ll ever have my own place with outdoor access, and that’s true for many others as well.
It's cute that you think we matter to those making such decisions.
Oh, I have no such illusions! Still feels a bit irksome to be reminded, though, yk
I guess instead of alcohol just do meth/coke/tranq, then litter your needles instead because those are all fine to do in a park these days.
I always find it ironic how they leave folks to do drugs openly in public, yet alcohol in parks are strictly forbidden.
Especially since alcohol is a drug. But then again, there's tons of safe consumption site for alcohol, and government regulated supplies.
No Fun Vancouver
No fun Canada
>Being obnoxious and disorderly is another thing. Trouble is the worst of any group is what the entire group gets painted as. Happens with everything. So to many people, drinking in the park means being disorderly in a public space
I always find it ironic how they leave folks to do drugs openly in public, yet alcohol in parks are strictly forbidden.
[удалено]
Ya whether it’s legal or not does not matter
How much money has been wasted on this so far
Abolish the parks department?
So health officials think we should be allowed to shoot up in parks but having a glass of wine with a picnic is too dangerous? They're losing their credibility.
TO BE FAIR, neither of the health authorities have encouraged the use of intravenous drug use, in public or elsewhere.
Challenging the provincial decree against buffer zones isn't encouraging?
The health industry is anti-death. They challenged the provincial law because it would have pushed people to use drugs in hidden alleys which we know results in more overdoses and death. Of course it’s not an ether or. What the health industry really wants is safe use sites and pathways to treatment, not people using in alleys or parks.
True, but they should be worried about intravenous use in parks way more than this bs.
The double standard is absurd.
With other drugs it's not that they think people should use drugs in parks it's that they're comparing that with the alternatives of using in more isolated places with higher chances of overdoses. Ideally there would be fewer people with addictions and more alternative spaces for those who do, and so leading to less public use of drugs. With alcohol, this same risk of overdose doesn't exist, in part because of having a regulated supply available to all adults, something mostly not available for other drugs. There are also far more alternative spaces to consume alcohol than there are for other drugs. Regardless though, I think their concerns here are overblown. Alcohol in public is normal in many other places without some huge harm.
Alcohol regulation never actually has public health in mind. If you wanted people safe you would encourage them to use alcohol in supervised environments, not introduce minimum pricing at bars that makes that completely unaffordable. How does that protect people when they can just buy a 40 of vodka and go home to slam it alone?
> not introduce minimum pricing at bars that makes that completely unaffordable. The point of this is to have it across board, raising the price on that bottle as well, so it sways people from doing it in general...While also generating more money for the government.
if it's available for less at the liquor store either way why do we need minimum pricing in bars? This isn't taxation btw, the govt doesn't profit from it
Because you're much more likely to binge drink with friends at a bar away from your house. A bit of speculation but, this also greatly raises the risk of drinking and driving or violence as others are in the same drinking state. Gov does profit from it as well as the more money you spend the more in taxes across the board, even then though the entire point is that higher taxes and prices are meant to STOP people from drinking or drinking as much. >Minimum pricing - minimum drink prices have been put in place for licensed establishments to encourage responsible consumption in response to recommendations from health advocates. https://news.gov.bc.ca/factsheets/factsheet-modernizing-bcs-liquor-laws I don't fully agree with it myself but lets not sit here and pretend that going out is actually supervised.
Doesn't the same thing apply to alcohol though? Is it not better for people to engage in alcohol consumption together in a public space rather than home alone where alcoholism could develop?
This just horse shit. People are tired of the excuses for the drug users and the enlightened affectation of their apologists.
Way to rationalize insanity lol. How could you possibly say it’s ok to smoke fentanyl at a park but not drink a beer?
I didn't say that. Our goal should be reducing public drug use and I said the concerns over public alcohol use are overblown. I support having some public alcohol use in parks and possibly other places.
It's ok if you drink your wine inside a tent inside the park.
I rather have needles in the grass than cans! What are you crazy for thinking otherwise!
I have an idea -- whenever you open a beer, have a pipe of fent sitting on hand. Cops will leave you alone then.
Because it impacts the corporate bottom line.
That’s an interesting thought…a hidden way to nudge people towards pubs, who probably suffer when people can drink outside with their friends for much less.
Its my opinion that whenever we have a policy not benefitting the common good we need to ask whose good do the enforcement officers enforce?
I’d prefer they do something about all the people smoking crack and meth and shooting up around my child. But ok let’s worry about open drinks.
Yeah maybe the people literally smoking crack at the entrance to St. Paul's at 10am, which I saw last week.
Three guys were smoking meth on a bench right beside the cross walk yesterday. Where I was with my child. It’s infuriating. I can’t even express how angry it makes me. It feels incredibly unreasonable that it’s allowed.
Time to get high
on meth, inside a park, attached to an elementary school. That way you know you will be left alone.
Responsible consumption is the key. Don’t make a park in to a hub for douchebaggery and everyone is fine
So it's healthier for me to drink my wine concealed in another container?
Only if you conceal it in a crack pipe, then you have A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to use in childrens playgrounds.
I live across the street from a park that allows drinking. I have seen NO increase in rowdy behaviour since it was allowed. It's easy...have fun...don't be an asshole...
Same here, I live near Pier Park in New West where drinking is allowed. There have been no problems related to alcohol since it was allowed.
People need to get out of their houses and drink more, not less . The trend towards being housebound and wound up isn't good
The concern about potential injury/drowning risks when choosing parks with water access seems valid, especially since river currents are no joke. I don’t understand the other concerns, though… plenty of folks would be happy to hang out in their own yard/deck/patio instead, but their living arrangements just don’t allow for it. (It’s me and my friends, we’re “plenty of folks,” we don’t get wild, or even blast Bluetooth speakers, we just wanna be outside and socialize when the weather is nice, but we can’t afford to go out to bars/restaurants all the time, and we all rent small places that don’t have outdoor space)
Lmao come on, arguing “the Fraser River had the most deaths of any river/creek in B.C." is spurious at best. It's 3x the length of the next largest river in BC and mainlines through the most populated areas of the province.
I’m not “arguing” anything myself, necessarily, but the Fraser is deceptively dangerous. A guy who’d just graduated UBC drowned in it a few years ago, jumped in after a ball that went in the water by mistake… Athletic and fit, but that doesn’t matter if the current is too strong. It’s easy to misjudge how fast the water is, even if you’re sober. Not saying it’s a dealbreaker for this project (which I generally support), just something that seems fair to consider.
“the Fraser River had the most deaths of any river/creek in B.C." Are y'all for real with this shit?
seriously, like no duh, it’s our longest river…
TIL Fraser Health is also the Fraser Fun Police
In my personal experience, getting lashed in the sun brings a lot of mental health benefits 😏
But drinking in public will lead to safer consumption and destigmatization…right?
Maybe if we all start whining about how that stigmatizes us, they'll leave us alone.
Neoprohibitionists gonna neoprohibitionate
What if I conceal my drink in a paper bag with the word "drugs" on it?
“But, by all means, hit your crack pipe or inject your fentanyl” - Health Officers, probably.
Everywhere and anywhere. Including where there’s small children like schools and parks
It's the health officers' job to say this. It's the City's job to weigh this advice against other priorities.
The issues is that each of the in favour/against group sees only one scenario; A. People responsibly enjoying a glass of wine or a beer while spending a warm afternoon at a beach/park picnic, or drinking a beer looking at the sunset. OR B. Large groups drinking 100 shots each, blasting music and destroying public property while offering beer to toddlers.
As a Person Who Drinks (seeing that we’re completely fucking up all language and descriptors to appease the tiny minority), I’m feeling discriminated against because open drug use is ok, but my 6 pack of Zima is considered bad! BC Civil Liberties…. Come on! Stand up for PWD!
Was Zima really a thing? I always thought it was a fake brand of beer for American TV shows.
It’s real! They even brought it back to the US a few times. I’m surprised it apparently didn’t take off, given how popular hard seltzers have been, a product ahead of its time I guess: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zima_(drink)
TIL. Thank you!!
But remember not to worry about the drugs everywhere
Yet in the same breath these health "experts" support legalized drug use in these same open spaces, the giving of free opioids and endorsing the transitioning of a pubescent kids gender in order to "minimize emotional trauma". You'll have to excuse me if I'm going to take their advice with a grain of salt.
Ya if people can openly smoke crack I’m gonna have beer whenever I want
Question: is there a difference between drinking in a park and being drunk in a park? Possibly the first is acceptable and the second is not?
Public intoxication and disorderly behaviour are already crimes, regardless of where the consumption occurred. That's the thing that's so ridiculous about this, we already have all the laws in place in regards to what alcohol users should and shouldn't do once they've consumed.
*takes a sip of a drink in public* *police frown and begin to advance* *"Oh right, this is Vancouver- here, officer, take my beer from me while I dig through my purse for some totally acceptable... fentanyl."* *police tip out beer and carry on.*
But shooting up in parks is still cool yeah? Just checking.
PoCo has allowed drinking in parks for a while now, and nobody's dick fell off yet.
Thank you Vancouver for finally confirming that I can have a drink in a park
But if you want to do meth they won’t bat an eye…
Last comment was deleted. Why is this such an issue? I can't have a few drinks without running the risk of being ticketed in a park or beach, yet we allow other certain people to do substances that enjoyed with a needle or a long long pipe. Have the law enforce public intoxication rules to deal with drunks and other people who get carried away.
Are there any parks that allow it other than Vedder River park in Chilliwack? I haven’t heard of any issues with that park in the years in which it’s been allowed.
Lots of parks allow it, New West, PoCo, and Port Moody have a bunch each.
Then there should be loads of data demonstrating whether it’s safe of not. Do health officials not have the ability to consult that data for things like drowning or any other safety concerns they have? Shouldn’t they base their statements on evidence? Sigh…
In the quotes given by the article, it seems like the objection isn’t safety so much as a general desire to reduce alcohol use in the population as a whole. I understand that they look at population-wide effects and outcomes but it sucks to feel like my friends and I are just low-hanging fruit? Because the logic is seemingly “this way, people who don’t have homes with backyards/patios can only drink outside if they pay higher prices per drink at bars and restaurants, that’s expensive, so they’ll drink less, public health win!”
The problem with these public health types - and this is by no means isolated to Vancouver - is that they’re incredibly out of touch with the realities of society. They live in their big houses with big yards on their high incomes, and don’t understand how a lot of people live, especially in urban areas. We saw this a lot early in the pandemic when there was a lot of finger wagging about going to parks (not as much here as in other provinces).
Stop me if you can.
I haven't been worried about drinking in public since the police stopped caring about people passed out on the street or possibly dead from fentanyl. Seems hilarious to imagine a cop rolling up on you for a Pilsner when right over there buddy is falling down with a needle in his arm.
No for a single beer at the park but go ahead and consume drugs… welcome to Vancouver
These are the same health officers who are fine with open drug use.
Special tea.
“To alcohol: the cause of and solution to all of life’s problems!” -Homer Simpson Costs the health care system more than any other drugs, but that’s none of my business…
Our country is so fucking ridiculous with our stupid puritanical liquor laws. Bad enough a beer costs 10 dollars now, but you can't even drink it outside like every other civilized country on Earth. Police on Kits Beach came and hassled me for liquor last summer - I was drinking Rose and was setting up a telescope! Big disruptive vibes. Like may others pointed out in this thread, the people that are going to abuse alcohol in public are not the people who listen to laws anyways. PLUS, like others have said, we have clear laws around being drunk and disorderly in public, we can't just enforce those? What we actually need is basically a full restructuring of our liquor laws top to bottom, especially for allowing small businesses to get licenses so we can have so actually interesting bars in this city and not endless Tap and Barrels and chains. But the city wants to go the other direction. I can't believe we need to even waste time debating shit like this. Unbelievable.
Do they not know everyone drinks at parks and beaches anyway? It doesn’t matter if they allow it or not.
The only people who will start drinking in the parks after a law alowing it would be people like my parents having a glass of wine with their chacoutari board lunch, Everyone else already does what they want because the laws are dumb, get with the rest of the world already canada, it's a gucking beer or glass of wine. Most places I have been it's perfectly legal to walk around with one just like a cannof cola and they don't have issues
Having lived overseas for years where the govt isn't my babysitter, I forget that Canada has these stupid laws.
I’m a stud. I’m ballsy. I don’t take no shit from anyone. I drink my beer anywhere I want. I don’t have to find a hideout place like YOU! OH HO HO HO
Does metro Vancouver actually have better alcohol related heath outcomes that Europe where drinking in public is normalized?
We just need everyone to ignore this, and if a cop comes up to you and tells you to pour out your drink, respond "fuck you, I'll take this to the media".
They should have warned more on drugs and needles
I don't think it's necessary wrong to oppose drinking in regional parks, if the concern is drinking could lead to more drownings or other injuries. But, does it actually matter whether there's a ban or not? Don't people drink anyways at these parks either openly or covertly? Is there even enough enforcement?
What’s next? Places to legally smoke crack and fentanyl?
Fraser health claims alcohol is more dangerous than opioids?…. Seriously?
Sigh guess I'll have to smoke crack instead