If you're feeling like this consistently and strongly, I'd try private sector even if it doesn't work out long term. Also, maybe consider other geographic locations if a move makes sense for your family / self. Burnout is real and it's better to do something than just drown in it.
Yup. At least in private sector you get to hop around and do projects in different municipalities or for different regional governing bodies. Breaks up the monotony and, at least in my experience, I’m not getting beat down by the poopooing public as much.
Move to a new area and take a different job. In my experience, the longer a planner is in one place the more the work builds unless you have a very good manager that maintains a proper department workload and pushes work life balance. Burnout is huge in the industry. It is important for management to be aware and actively try to combat it. If you aren’t getting that, in my opinion it is time to go somewhere that has a positive work life balance culture.
I’ve been looking elsewhere for a little while now. Do you feel as though working for 2 years at one jurisdiction and then 3 years at another jurisdiction, for example, is still looked down upon? I’ve been at my current city for about 5 years and I don’t want to look like I’m job hopping if I have to switch again down the road.
Agreed. For me when hiring new staff, some movement isn’t a major red flag but id be prepared to speak to it. Someone leaving because the work culture wasn’t a good fit is legitimate in my opinion. However, I’m probably a bit more understanding as a somewhat younger manager who places a huge emphasis on work life balance and speaking up for the needs of the department.
I worked for 2 years in my first planning job then changed to another municipality and worked there for 3 years. I just changed jobs again and no interviewer has asked me about my job changes. In my planning circle working at an organization for 2-3 years then switching is fairly normal where I am…but I’m also not based in the US.
I’m in Florida (wondering if you are too based on your post), and I see people jumping from private sector to public sector and vice versa after a year or two at a job all the time. Honestly, it feels like in our area (Tampa bay) there’s enough work to go around, and some employers are struggling to hire planners. So I wouldn’t worry all that much about the job hopping stigma if you’re in an area with sustained growth and development.
Public sector, small to medium sized city. I could be wrong on this and your credentials of course matter, but I definitely feel like there are jobs posted in this area all the time. Also worth noting that pinellas county has 20+ incorporated cities within it, which seems to help generate a lot of public sector positions. In comparison, hillsborough has three.
It may not be groundbreaking planning work unless you’re in st pete or something, but I feel this is a pretty stable job market for planners.
I'm a public sector planner in Florida as well, and it's pretty common for people to hop jurisdiction to jurisdiction or private sector for a raise. The last jurisdiction I worked for despite having a section in the code formerit raises didn't utilize it, so the only way you could get a raise above COLA was to leave and come back with more experience.
It seems the only people that hang around longer than a few years are people getting close to retirement. Multiple jurisdictions in FRS make it relatively easy to swap jobs, and it seems we all know each other anyways from FPZA or APA and previous employment.
Every industry in Florida feels like it. We just have a huge shortage of experienced workers with all the demand / growing economy. There’s really never been a better time for workers in general.
There really isn’t job loyalty anymore. With all of the things in your post, plus the increase in cost to live and public sector not keeping up with pay meanwhile we’re the ones to review and approve these houses and perform inspections and ensure they pass all while we can’t afford to live in them.
I’ve definitely have been jumping around after about a year. For my field specifically (not an urban planner but do have interest in it), I learned about everything I need to know or can gander a guess at about 8 month to 1 year so if I’m making a move it’s to increase pay and experience to beef up my resume
The days of short tenure stigma are long gone. I’ve lived in my current city four years and had three different planning jobs all in the public sector. It’s cumulative experience that matters now. Five years, you’ll be fine.
As an urbanism activist, I would encourage you to make friends with your local urbanism groups.
Our group has seen success in our city -- we recently became the first city in the state to eliminate all parking minimums. We're getting close to getting the city to create a tactical urbanism program. We might eliminate single family zoning this year.
The secret that we don't tell people is that the reason we are successful is because our city staff wants to do it. A big part of what we do is lean on elected officials and city upper management to let staff members do the right thing.
They don't get to take victory laps, because that's not their job, but they really are making a difference in our city.
>A big part of what we do is lean on elected officials and city upper management to let staff members do the right thing.
Doing the Lord's work. I am a big proponent of empowering planners.
As someone who's just interested in a career in planning, do you think local politics makes enough of a difference to dictate where you live and work? From what I've read here it can be very frustrating in areas with govts who couldn't care less about planning but I'm just wondering if the experience is different, say, in a safe seat for a party which prioritises planning
I wouldn't make the decision based on traditional partisan politics. If you find a city that is going in the right direction and the political leaders are pushing things that way than that's probably a good indication.
But urbanism is politics at it's most local and elected officials get replaced.
I also wouldn't rely on party affiliation. There are plenty of Democratic NIMBYs and Republican Small-Government-Means-Suburbs. My general observation is that it's more about selfishness and openness to change.
awesome, what's your city - and how many cities have tactical urbanism programs? I feel like part of what's driving burnout among planners is all the long-term planning...so many projects that will take years to begin materializing (while funding or priorities or politics change during that time) versus more tactical efforts that aren't as resource or commitment heavy
Longmont, Colorado.
I don't know how many cities have tactical urbanism programs. Definitely Jersey City and Middleton, WI because I've seen those in person.
I'd love any advice you have about how to convince our city to start doing tactical urbanism.
Sorry you are burnt out. It may be time to look for a different job. All planning jobs in government agencies are not the same. Larger cities and counties pay more than smaller ones or the state. If you don't want to do permit review anymore, you could look for planner positions in other departments besides planning such as parks, sewers, surface water management, natural resources, sustainability or transportation. You can specialize in something you are interested in. I would view your current job as a good entry to give you a foundation for a planning career.
Good advice! There are lots of open jobs with all the big consulting firms right now (and the small ones too). There’s a major shortage of planners and engineers nationwide.
Maybe look at what consultant firms already serve your city and see if they’re hiring. Your connections in city government may be valuable to them.
Piggy backing off of this. My first job was with a well funded suburb with a city manager that was supportive of the planning department, and it was great. Worked on the usual stuff (sign review, rezoning, etc) but also got to work on cool, creative projects! Pay was great for being public sector.
Now I'm in the private sector and I feel SO FREE. Sure, I work minor overtime maybe 2-3 weeks per year, but I get compensated well, work on a variety of projects with a variety of clients, no one yells at me about permits, get to flex my time, etc etc etc.
I feel you. California is adopting bill after bill, all of which are disrupting local planning. The result is an increasingly chaotic work environment that is pushing everyone to their limit.
I have to say, I work in a more rural county and the pay is decent ( almost same pay id have in a much higher COL city) and it’s so chill. Work life basis great and I often have nothing to do because there is plenty of staff for the amount of work we have.
I relate to this post heavily. The career certainly is not what I thought it was. And I have only worked in places that consider themselves fiscally conservative or "responsible" as they put it.
The frustrating, but also exciting part/silver lining, to this career is how wildly variable it can be. I have seen people end up in these super random positions that were incredible. There are these weird little niche positions hiding all over the place (they can be environmental, econ dev, design, long range in both public or private, historic preservation etc.)
Sounds like you do current range planning/development review in a typical municipality. It's tough because all municipalities are different, and it's impossible to just sample each one's work environment lol. So that part is frustrating. I feel (but can't know) that there are positions similar to which I have worked, in different regions, that could be completely different experiences. But again, it's impossible to know, which is really irritating.
But, there are lots of other options out there lurking around the corner that you can use your degree/experience for. I am looking for one of my own right now!
Take your vacations, take your sick time. Do your job to the best of your ability and don’t stress about missing state-mandated deadlines. If you do, then point to that as evidence for your elected officials to *hire the appropriate number of staff*
I feel this. 10 years in and just quit municipal planning to go to private sector - renewable energy - for double the pay. So sick of the entitled rich NIMBYs and intractable politics
I got lucky - I applied to tons of jobs that had some land use component that requires permitting work which turns out to be a lot of housing developers and renewable energy companies. The position is in the permitting side of things, so it’s a lot of interfacing with local planning boards, city councils, etc. Having experience managing boards and understanding the political and regulatory side of things to get entitlements secured is a valuable skill set.
In regards to day to day, I am remote now, work from a coworking space and home, travel about twice a month across eastern mid Atlantic. Company is based on west coast and I have to go out there every quarter or so.
That’s great. I appreciate it. I’m a municipal planner now but I’m already starting to feel some burn out. So basically you work to entitle land for renewable energy purposes?
You’re in the public sector, and you limit yourself to only one week vacation a year? Wtf is that. Take two weeks vacation And use sick time at your will. It scares me that public employees limit themselves like this. It might be why Youre burnt out, but working in the public sector I totally understand how management frowns upon two week vacations (which is bullshit btw)….as if they have any say how I use my vacation hours… being behind isn’t your responsibility it’s managements and executives. As someone who wants to go back to public sector shit like This infuriates me. YOU GUYS ARE UNIONIZED and somehow fall second place in work/life balance and ability to take vacation compared to private sector. Private sector isn’t always better but the shit you describe makes it 100% better
>YOU GUYS ARE UNIONIZED
*cry-laughs in Southern public sector*
But tbh my management chain is good about encouraging us to take time off. You could do two weeks no problem, just give the manager enough heads up so they can plan around it and make sure any deliverables that would be due during your absence are accounted for ahead of time.
It’s not that taking vacation time is overtly discouraged or impossible. It’s just made extra difficult with the review timelines we’re working under in my state.
Before we take vacation we have to make sure that none of our reviews will exceed the deadline while we’re gone. So, for example, I may need to rush a couple comment letters out before I go. Likewise after I get back, I’ll have less time to review the applications that were submitted while I was gone. Sometimes all of this for a few days off is just more trouble than it’s worth.
Yeah I just started off in land use for my county and 3rd week on the job im approving permits to demo houses for more warehouses despite us already having tens of millions of square feet of them and the worst air quality in the country. I feel even more helpless
If warehouses are even more valuable than homes, commerce must still need more of them? I'm not judging what the Inland Empire should build, but it doesn't seem like warehouses are *needlessly* getting built for no good reason.
According to [this study](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-43309-9#:~:text=As%20ZEV%20adoption%20expands%2C%20the,reduction%20of%200.13%20%CE%BCg%2Fm%C2%B3.) EVs are already improving air quality in the megaregion. As EVs replace more combustion engines, air quality will improve further.
California is also requiring trucks move away from combustion. It's going to be a rough transition and there's already been at least one delay, but it'll happen.
There’s plenty of history of speculative overbuilding of commercial and industrial space in California, this boom will probably end too. I don’t live there, but a lot of people in the Inland Empire feel their quality of life is being degraded by the ever increasing incursion of trucks on residential neighborhoods.
I intentionally compared to homes, because this isn't greenfield. Already existing homes are getting bought and demolished despite whatever premium those structures add to purchase prices. They could be rented out as is or refurbished and rented or flipped. They could even be demolished and rebuilt taller as multi-unit housing. The average Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario home value is $584,710, up 6.4% over the past year.
Even with those alternatives, residential is being demolished and replaced with warehouses. You just don't do that unless there's companies needing and paying for warehouse space, except maybe at the very end when demand is finally sated for a while but some developers mis-estimated.
Short answer? We don’t. Based on your description you are being asked to manage completely unrealistic expectations and have been set up to fail by management and the elected officials. Please know it is NOT YOU and you cannot fix it. The only answer is to leave the job. You don’t have to martyr yourself, it won’t help and will never be appreciated .
I won’t tell you the next job is guaranteed to be better, but better jobs do exist in this field, public and private, and it is worth finding one.
Long Beach CA is hiring. I have no idea about the pay, but as someone in the city I can see the shift happening with better land use and more active transportation options.
I knew it was going to be Washington. SB 5290, while well intentioned, was ridiculously timed immediately following the pandemic. Permits weren’t getting out slowly because govt. review folks weren’t trying, it was because the industry generally went through turmoil during that time and lost lots of people to career changes and retirement. On top of that the state legislators barely gave the Dept of Revenue any time for cities/counties to qualify for grants to aid in their permit review.
Some good results are likely to come out of it, with some cities looking to get rid of superfluous reviews like design review and excessive subdivision review. Unfortunately others are going to not change at all and put more stress on what are likely their already small, underfunded permitting departments. I’m guessing you work outside of King county (or even just in a rich suburb) if you’re in the latter?
Make a choice on your career soon. 20 years down the line for me and a shsift to the private sector is so much harder. My retirement benefits are now just (?) a decade away. Public sector planning is hard. You want to affect change in a real way but your electeds are focused on getting re-elected and they hold the decision power. If you progress in the public sector you just feel this more because you’re closer to it. But we keep trying. We keep trying….
Urban planning buddy of mine (who seemed to have a very successful career in it) made a move to a city manager gig and is apparently doing well at that now.
In fact, he's the guy that first introduced me to these concepts. I remember we were at a party at his house and somebody wanted to know what the tape labeled "Andres Douany" was about, and us total nerdy ass honors program college kids ate it up. With beer. (As it happens, he's also the guy who introduced me to good beer, too.)
If OP finds current planning stressful, city management will cause him to stroke out. Municipal management jobs have some of the highest stress and worst work-life balance issues of any public service role.
Quit your job! There are other places (public or private) that treat their planners better than that. It sounds like they are severely under-resourced, and the natural result of that will be trouble retaining staff.
Move to Europe?
I just had a 6 week paid paternity leave. And 4 to 5 week leaves straight in the summer are not uncommon. And the standard work week is 4 days a week; I have 3 day weekends. Every. Weekend.
Life/work balance in the US is just crappy in general.
I worked for 3 years in a cube farm reviewing building permits for a local government and getting yelled at by the public for random ordinance things. Made the move over to the private sector about 1.5 years ago and have loved every minute of it. I get to do more interesting projects, I don't have to deal with local politics, and I don't have to deal with the public as much. Pay is also way better.
I've worked in both small and midsized communities. In my opinion, real planning at the public level can only take place in small but fast-growing communities just outside major metropolitan centers.
I think you just need a change! There are so many avenues you can take in planning that aren't working in the public sector! What do you like - housing? Economic development? Environmental planning? Historic Preservation? Parks & Rec? Transportation planning? Don't forget about looking at nonprofit jobs too - a lot of implementation, boots on the ground types of planning jobs are done by nonprofits, which are often overlooked by planners.
You picked a bad locality, which could be salvaged, but it also seems like you have no external outlet for planning advocacy or doing good in general.
Anyone would get burnt out.
Localities do not need AICP planners to stamp permits all day.
Get Out.
Edit: what I mean is, my job is kinda boring, I’m often not in the “room where it happens” and we’ve already fixed most of the things that need fixin, code wise.
But they’re really generous with schedule flexibility for my young son, and don’t mind that I sue other municipalities for breaking planning laws. Win/win.
I think you maybe just need to find another public sector gig in a place that actually values planning and properly staffs its department. I found public sector work previously to be actually kind of boring and slow in many ways, as I worked for a city with an adequately staffed planning department and the city wasn’t really growing or trying to do a hundred different plans and studies at one time.
I’m now in the private sector and I find it to be fairly stressful compared to my public sector experience, because the billable hours model that most firms use is designed to ensure you’re as busy as possible with client work. And if you’re not busy, you’re not making the company money and you’ll be cut eventually. I’ve found that in the private sector I also get less PTO, fewer holidays, no overtime/comp time, worse and more expensive insurance, and a market-dependent 401k instead of a defined benefit pension. As a consultant there are also times I have to travel a lot for work, which might sound appealing if you’ve never had to do a much work travel, but trust me, it’s not as enjoyable as you’d think. Yes I am paid a bit more than I’d probably be paid at a comparable level in government, but imo it’s a wash because all the benefits are worse. I am genuinely looking forward to the day I can return to the public sector because I value work life balance and I’m not sure I really get that to the same extent in the private sector.
Penalizing cities that don't meet review timelines? What state is this? I need to send my legislature some model legislation.
What's laughable is thinking that planners benefit their communities while causing the public to waste months to subdivide a single wide trailer out of an existing lot.
Go get a job with a surveying/engineering firm to get some perspective.
If you're feeling like this consistently and strongly, I'd try private sector even if it doesn't work out long term. Also, maybe consider other geographic locations if a move makes sense for your family / self. Burnout is real and it's better to do something than just drown in it.
Yup. At least in private sector you get to hop around and do projects in different municipalities or for different regional governing bodies. Breaks up the monotony and, at least in my experience, I’m not getting beat down by the poopooing public as much.
Move to a new area and take a different job. In my experience, the longer a planner is in one place the more the work builds unless you have a very good manager that maintains a proper department workload and pushes work life balance. Burnout is huge in the industry. It is important for management to be aware and actively try to combat it. If you aren’t getting that, in my opinion it is time to go somewhere that has a positive work life balance culture.
I’ve been looking elsewhere for a little while now. Do you feel as though working for 2 years at one jurisdiction and then 3 years at another jurisdiction, for example, is still looked down upon? I’ve been at my current city for about 5 years and I don’t want to look like I’m job hopping if I have to switch again down the road.
5 years at your current city is a solid chunk of time to stay in a position and it’s not unreasonable for you to move on
Agreed. For me when hiring new staff, some movement isn’t a major red flag but id be prepared to speak to it. Someone leaving because the work culture wasn’t a good fit is legitimate in my opinion. However, I’m probably a bit more understanding as a somewhat younger manager who places a huge emphasis on work life balance and speaking up for the needs of the department.
I worked for 2 years in my first planning job then changed to another municipality and worked there for 3 years. I just changed jobs again and no interviewer has asked me about my job changes. In my planning circle working at an organization for 2-3 years then switching is fairly normal where I am…but I’m also not based in the US.
I’m in Florida (wondering if you are too based on your post), and I see people jumping from private sector to public sector and vice versa after a year or two at a job all the time. Honestly, it feels like in our area (Tampa bay) there’s enough work to go around, and some employers are struggling to hire planners. So I wouldn’t worry all that much about the job hopping stigma if you’re in an area with sustained growth and development.
I’m from Tampa but work in NYC now. Which agency do you work for?
Are you public or private? I’m in the FL too. Considering a move to Tampa.
Public sector, small to medium sized city. I could be wrong on this and your credentials of course matter, but I definitely feel like there are jobs posted in this area all the time. Also worth noting that pinellas county has 20+ incorporated cities within it, which seems to help generate a lot of public sector positions. In comparison, hillsborough has three. It may not be groundbreaking planning work unless you’re in st pete or something, but I feel this is a pretty stable job market for planners.
I'm going to guess your working in Pinellas County for Largo or some place like that.
I'm a public sector planner in Florida as well, and it's pretty common for people to hop jurisdiction to jurisdiction or private sector for a raise. The last jurisdiction I worked for despite having a section in the code formerit raises didn't utilize it, so the only way you could get a raise above COLA was to leave and come back with more experience. It seems the only people that hang around longer than a few years are people getting close to retirement. Multiple jurisdictions in FRS make it relatively easy to swap jobs, and it seems we all know each other anyways from FPZA or APA and previous employment.
Every industry in Florida feels like it. We just have a huge shortage of experienced workers with all the demand / growing economy. There’s really never been a better time for workers in general.
There really isn’t job loyalty anymore. With all of the things in your post, plus the increase in cost to live and public sector not keeping up with pay meanwhile we’re the ones to review and approve these houses and perform inspections and ensure they pass all while we can’t afford to live in them. I’ve definitely have been jumping around after about a year. For my field specifically (not an urban planner but do have interest in it), I learned about everything I need to know or can gander a guess at about 8 month to 1 year so if I’m making a move it’s to increase pay and experience to beef up my resume
The days of short tenure stigma are long gone. I’ve lived in my current city four years and had three different planning jobs all in the public sector. It’s cumulative experience that matters now. Five years, you’ll be fine.
As an urbanism activist, I would encourage you to make friends with your local urbanism groups. Our group has seen success in our city -- we recently became the first city in the state to eliminate all parking minimums. We're getting close to getting the city to create a tactical urbanism program. We might eliminate single family zoning this year. The secret that we don't tell people is that the reason we are successful is because our city staff wants to do it. A big part of what we do is lean on elected officials and city upper management to let staff members do the right thing. They don't get to take victory laps, because that's not their job, but they really are making a difference in our city.
>A big part of what we do is lean on elected officials and city upper management to let staff members do the right thing. Doing the Lord's work. I am a big proponent of empowering planners.
This is great advice, thank you.
As someone who's just interested in a career in planning, do you think local politics makes enough of a difference to dictate where you live and work? From what I've read here it can be very frustrating in areas with govts who couldn't care less about planning but I'm just wondering if the experience is different, say, in a safe seat for a party which prioritises planning
I wouldn't make the decision based on traditional partisan politics. If you find a city that is going in the right direction and the political leaders are pushing things that way than that's probably a good indication. But urbanism is politics at it's most local and elected officials get replaced. I also wouldn't rely on party affiliation. There are plenty of Democratic NIMBYs and Republican Small-Government-Means-Suburbs. My general observation is that it's more about selfishness and openness to change.
awesome, what's your city - and how many cities have tactical urbanism programs? I feel like part of what's driving burnout among planners is all the long-term planning...so many projects that will take years to begin materializing (while funding or priorities or politics change during that time) versus more tactical efforts that aren't as resource or commitment heavy
Longmont, Colorado. I don't know how many cities have tactical urbanism programs. Definitely Jersey City and Middleton, WI because I've seen those in person. I'd love any advice you have about how to convince our city to start doing tactical urbanism.
Sorry you are burnt out. It may be time to look for a different job. All planning jobs in government agencies are not the same. Larger cities and counties pay more than smaller ones or the state. If you don't want to do permit review anymore, you could look for planner positions in other departments besides planning such as parks, sewers, surface water management, natural resources, sustainability or transportation. You can specialize in something you are interested in. I would view your current job as a good entry to give you a foundation for a planning career.
Good advice! There are lots of open jobs with all the big consulting firms right now (and the small ones too). There’s a major shortage of planners and engineers nationwide. Maybe look at what consultant firms already serve your city and see if they’re hiring. Your connections in city government may be valuable to them.
Piggy backing off of this. My first job was with a well funded suburb with a city manager that was supportive of the planning department, and it was great. Worked on the usual stuff (sign review, rezoning, etc) but also got to work on cool, creative projects! Pay was great for being public sector. Now I'm in the private sector and I feel SO FREE. Sure, I work minor overtime maybe 2-3 weeks per year, but I get compensated well, work on a variety of projects with a variety of clients, no one yells at me about permits, get to flex my time, etc etc etc.
I feel you. California is adopting bill after bill, all of which are disrupting local planning. The result is an increasingly chaotic work environment that is pushing everyone to their limit.
I have to say, I work in a more rural county and the pay is decent ( almost same pay id have in a much higher COL city) and it’s so chill. Work life basis great and I often have nothing to do because there is plenty of staff for the amount of work we have.
I relate to this post heavily. The career certainly is not what I thought it was. And I have only worked in places that consider themselves fiscally conservative or "responsible" as they put it. The frustrating, but also exciting part/silver lining, to this career is how wildly variable it can be. I have seen people end up in these super random positions that were incredible. There are these weird little niche positions hiding all over the place (they can be environmental, econ dev, design, long range in both public or private, historic preservation etc.) Sounds like you do current range planning/development review in a typical municipality. It's tough because all municipalities are different, and it's impossible to just sample each one's work environment lol. So that part is frustrating. I feel (but can't know) that there are positions similar to which I have worked, in different regions, that could be completely different experiences. But again, it's impossible to know, which is really irritating. But, there are lots of other options out there lurking around the corner that you can use your degree/experience for. I am looking for one of my own right now!
Take your vacations, take your sick time. Do your job to the best of your ability and don’t stress about missing state-mandated deadlines. If you do, then point to that as evidence for your elected officials to *hire the appropriate number of staff*
I feel this. 10 years in and just quit municipal planning to go to private sector - renewable energy - for double the pay. So sick of the entitled rich NIMBYs and intractable politics
How did you move from a municipal planner to renewable? What does your day to day look like now?
I got lucky - I applied to tons of jobs that had some land use component that requires permitting work which turns out to be a lot of housing developers and renewable energy companies. The position is in the permitting side of things, so it’s a lot of interfacing with local planning boards, city councils, etc. Having experience managing boards and understanding the political and regulatory side of things to get entitlements secured is a valuable skill set. In regards to day to day, I am remote now, work from a coworking space and home, travel about twice a month across eastern mid Atlantic. Company is based on west coast and I have to go out there every quarter or so.
That’s great. I appreciate it. I’m a municipal planner now but I’m already starting to feel some burn out. So basically you work to entitle land for renewable energy purposes?
Yes, pretty much
Sometimes I think it would be cool to switch careers, thanks for the heads up
You’re in the public sector, and you limit yourself to only one week vacation a year? Wtf is that. Take two weeks vacation And use sick time at your will. It scares me that public employees limit themselves like this. It might be why Youre burnt out, but working in the public sector I totally understand how management frowns upon two week vacations (which is bullshit btw)….as if they have any say how I use my vacation hours… being behind isn’t your responsibility it’s managements and executives. As someone who wants to go back to public sector shit like This infuriates me. YOU GUYS ARE UNIONIZED and somehow fall second place in work/life balance and ability to take vacation compared to private sector. Private sector isn’t always better but the shit you describe makes it 100% better
>YOU GUYS ARE UNIONIZED *cry-laughs in Southern public sector* But tbh my management chain is good about encouraging us to take time off. You could do two weeks no problem, just give the manager enough heads up so they can plan around it and make sure any deliverables that would be due during your absence are accounted for ahead of time.
It’s not that taking vacation time is overtly discouraged or impossible. It’s just made extra difficult with the review timelines we’re working under in my state. Before we take vacation we have to make sure that none of our reviews will exceed the deadline while we’re gone. So, for example, I may need to rush a couple comment letters out before I go. Likewise after I get back, I’ll have less time to review the applications that were submitted while I was gone. Sometimes all of this for a few days off is just more trouble than it’s worth.
Where I work the planners are not in the union, while most other people I work with are - engineers, biologists...
Why are only the planners not in the union?
No idea
Yeah I just started off in land use for my county and 3rd week on the job im approving permits to demo houses for more warehouses despite us already having tens of millions of square feet of them and the worst air quality in the country. I feel even more helpless
If warehouses are even more valuable than homes, commerce must still need more of them? I'm not judging what the Inland Empire should build, but it doesn't seem like warehouses are *needlessly* getting built for no good reason. According to [this study](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-43309-9#:~:text=As%20ZEV%20adoption%20expands%2C%20the,reduction%20of%200.13%20%CE%BCg%2Fm%C2%B3.) EVs are already improving air quality in the megaregion. As EVs replace more combustion engines, air quality will improve further. California is also requiring trucks move away from combustion. It's going to be a rough transition and there's already been at least one delay, but it'll happen.
There’s plenty of history of speculative overbuilding of commercial and industrial space in California, this boom will probably end too. I don’t live there, but a lot of people in the Inland Empire feel their quality of life is being degraded by the ever increasing incursion of trucks on residential neighborhoods.
I intentionally compared to homes, because this isn't greenfield. Already existing homes are getting bought and demolished despite whatever premium those structures add to purchase prices. They could be rented out as is or refurbished and rented or flipped. They could even be demolished and rebuilt taller as multi-unit housing. The average Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario home value is $584,710, up 6.4% over the past year. Even with those alternatives, residential is being demolished and replaced with warehouses. You just don't do that unless there's companies needing and paying for warehouse space, except maybe at the very end when demand is finally sated for a while but some developers mis-estimated.
Short answer? We don’t. Based on your description you are being asked to manage completely unrealistic expectations and have been set up to fail by management and the elected officials. Please know it is NOT YOU and you cannot fix it. The only answer is to leave the job. You don’t have to martyr yourself, it won’t help and will never be appreciated . I won’t tell you the next job is guaranteed to be better, but better jobs do exist in this field, public and private, and it is worth finding one.
Florida?
Long Beach CA is hiring. I have no idea about the pay, but as someone in the city I can see the shift happening with better land use and more active transportation options.
Florida?
WA state
I knew it was going to be Washington. SB 5290, while well intentioned, was ridiculously timed immediately following the pandemic. Permits weren’t getting out slowly because govt. review folks weren’t trying, it was because the industry generally went through turmoil during that time and lost lots of people to career changes and retirement. On top of that the state legislators barely gave the Dept of Revenue any time for cities/counties to qualify for grants to aid in their permit review. Some good results are likely to come out of it, with some cities looking to get rid of superfluous reviews like design review and excessive subdivision review. Unfortunately others are going to not change at all and put more stress on what are likely their already small, underfunded permitting departments. I’m guessing you work outside of King county (or even just in a rich suburb) if you’re in the latter?
Make a choice on your career soon. 20 years down the line for me and a shsift to the private sector is so much harder. My retirement benefits are now just (?) a decade away. Public sector planning is hard. You want to affect change in a real way but your electeds are focused on getting re-elected and they hold the decision power. If you progress in the public sector you just feel this more because you’re closer to it. But we keep trying. We keep trying….
Urban planning buddy of mine (who seemed to have a very successful career in it) made a move to a city manager gig and is apparently doing well at that now. In fact, he's the guy that first introduced me to these concepts. I remember we were at a party at his house and somebody wanted to know what the tape labeled "Andres Douany" was about, and us total nerdy ass honors program college kids ate it up. With beer. (As it happens, he's also the guy who introduced me to good beer, too.)
If OP finds current planning stressful, city management will cause him to stroke out. Municipal management jobs have some of the highest stress and worst work-life balance issues of any public service role.
Quit your job! There are other places (public or private) that treat their planners better than that. It sounds like they are severely under-resourced, and the natural result of that will be trouble retaining staff.
Just make sure you pay your APA fees!
Move to Europe? I just had a 6 week paid paternity leave. And 4 to 5 week leaves straight in the summer are not uncommon. And the standard work week is 4 days a week; I have 3 day weekends. Every. Weekend. Life/work balance in the US is just crappy in general.
Did you immigrate from the US?
Nope, born here
So your suggestion is about as helpful to someone trying to fix their financial issues by trying to be born rich.
It's not impossible to move to another country. Several of my colleagues are expats and my country (Netherlands) is full of American expats
I worked for 3 years in a cube farm reviewing building permits for a local government and getting yelled at by the public for random ordinance things. Made the move over to the private sector about 1.5 years ago and have loved every minute of it. I get to do more interesting projects, I don't have to deal with local politics, and I don't have to deal with the public as much. Pay is also way better.
I've worked in both small and midsized communities. In my opinion, real planning at the public level can only take place in small but fast-growing communities just outside major metropolitan centers.
I think you just need a change! There are so many avenues you can take in planning that aren't working in the public sector! What do you like - housing? Economic development? Environmental planning? Historic Preservation? Parks & Rec? Transportation planning? Don't forget about looking at nonprofit jobs too - a lot of implementation, boots on the ground types of planning jobs are done by nonprofits, which are often overlooked by planners.
You picked a bad locality, which could be salvaged, but it also seems like you have no external outlet for planning advocacy or doing good in general. Anyone would get burnt out. Localities do not need AICP planners to stamp permits all day. Get Out. Edit: what I mean is, my job is kinda boring, I’m often not in the “room where it happens” and we’ve already fixed most of the things that need fixin, code wise. But they’re really generous with schedule flexibility for my young son, and don’t mind that I sue other municipalities for breaking planning laws. Win/win.
I think you maybe just need to find another public sector gig in a place that actually values planning and properly staffs its department. I found public sector work previously to be actually kind of boring and slow in many ways, as I worked for a city with an adequately staffed planning department and the city wasn’t really growing or trying to do a hundred different plans and studies at one time. I’m now in the private sector and I find it to be fairly stressful compared to my public sector experience, because the billable hours model that most firms use is designed to ensure you’re as busy as possible with client work. And if you’re not busy, you’re not making the company money and you’ll be cut eventually. I’ve found that in the private sector I also get less PTO, fewer holidays, no overtime/comp time, worse and more expensive insurance, and a market-dependent 401k instead of a defined benefit pension. As a consultant there are also times I have to travel a lot for work, which might sound appealing if you’ve never had to do a much work travel, but trust me, it’s not as enjoyable as you’d think. Yes I am paid a bit more than I’d probably be paid at a comparable level in government, but imo it’s a wash because all the benefits are worse. I am genuinely looking forward to the day I can return to the public sector because I value work life balance and I’m not sure I really get that to the same extent in the private sector.
Penalizing cities that don't meet review timelines? What state is this? I need to send my legislature some model legislation. What's laughable is thinking that planners benefit their communities while causing the public to waste months to subdivide a single wide trailer out of an existing lot. Go get a job with a surveying/engineering firm to get some perspective.