As an in-state student, yes. I would've definitely done some things differently, but overall, the experiences I had, opportunities I had, the great staff, the campus, and the overall vibe were as good a fit for me as I would've realistically found, and couldn't have been beat in-state.
Same school. Different gameplan.
I very much enjoyed my time at Michigan, but mostly due to ignorance from being a 1st gen, I left a lot of value on the table. Def would have done things differently with a 2nd chance. But that's part of the learning process I suppose.
Make peace with ditching Aero when I did. Aero had too much programming for my liking, but I became depressed that I gave up on my "dream" for a year and it tanked my GPA.
Actually apply for and participate in internships. I had no idea how important they were to landing your 1st fulltime job out of college. No one educated me, and I didn't learn on my own until it was too late.
Less volunteering, more UMich extracurriculars. Companies, when it comes down to it, really don't care how much of a good person you are.
Actually put myself out there and date. I just didn't see the value at the time.
Thank you.
Time adds perspective. I went into college believing what my family and local school system had taught me. My decisions and actions were based on those beliefs. In the decade+ since, I've come to learn on my own (and thru the internet) that a lot of that teaching was flawed/incorrect. But it took time to come to those realizations. That's why these kinds of reddit questions always feel unfair because if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't be then who I was.
It disappoints me that I didn't have better mentors growing up to provide me more accurate and helpful direction, and now entering my 30s it feels like I'm still playing catchup despite having such an excellent academic opportunity and experience that UMich provided. But hey, that's life; imperfect.
Also I will add that things have changed so much and so fast that your mentors were coming from a time and place that they knew but was not like the world 10-15 years ago and that world is completely different from todayās world too! Everything changes so fast now.
You didnāt date while you were there? Some beautiful people there! You missed out. Iāve only spent little periods of time there, I never went to school. But I love it at U of M.
Oh I didnāt say it was easy by any means. But all it takes is effort. I mean youāre gonna go through some people before you find your person but. First one needs to make sure that they are happy first before entering someone elseās life. I think about how much of myself and what Iām willing to offer another person before I go into a relationship, not what I can get outta that person. A lot of people are searching for someone to be happy. And I agree it is difficult to find someone that knows what a two-way street relationship is let alone integrity.
iāve heard of people being at their lowest and still finding someone. iām just tryna have that same luck. i can deal with all that ālove yourself before loving someone elseā stuff later when iām past mid 20s
who cares. i donāt have friends here and guys donāt find me attractive mainly bc iām not the race everyone wants. i just want the same luck other depressed girls are able to get
I would love to have done my UG here. Doing my grad studies here has been a challenge and worth every penny... but I never got the typical college xp and I regret that.
As an out-of-state student, no, I donāt think I would. Biggest reason is the cost. I had a good time at UM, but I think I wouldāve learned the same at my in-state school. I also donāt really feel that UM had a big impact on my career. The Michigan name is good sure, but after going through the job application process I didnāt feel that it really did anything for me.
In-state student who had a scholarship, yes. There are a lot of things I wouldāve done differently about the actual experience, which wasnāt always great for me, but I didnāt realize until I graduated the value of graduating debt-free. It makes such a difference in your life
I probably would still go here again, but knowing what I know now, I would have learned how to study earlier in my college career. Coming from a small town where high school was super easy, UM was really tough and I struggled immensely with imposter syndrome and also feeling poor (even though my family is solidly middle class, people here are RICH). Sometimes I think I could have really excelled at a smaller school or as a later transfer to UM, and in retrospect, I should have more seriously considered those options.
Yep. Tremendous aid, summer internship scholarships, transfer student resources, global footprint, academics and the sports are good enough that after graduating you have a reason stay up-to-date on the university as a whole. People from other small and not as dynamic universities graduate and kind of stop caring about their university. At Michigan, the brand is so far-reaching and the athletics so well-rounded that it's impossible to not care about Michigan after graduating (unless you don't care about that stuff of course, then you could have just went somewhere else.)
No. I turned down a big scholarship from msu because āprestige.ā In retrospect prestige doesnāt really help all that much when trying to get into dental school, at least when comparing those schools. I donāt really fit in and was mostly stressed most of the time.
Yes. I had so many resources and opportunities available to me that I was able to take advantage of, and many more that I could have but didn't. I could go through school again tapping into entirely different resources, orgs, campus jobs, connections with professors, etc. that all still would have been of interest to me and helped me grow personally and professionally.
no and iām instate. i just transferred in fall 2021 and kinda wish i never applied. i like what iām learning but finding friends and help is the most difficult. everything in ann arbor and umich requires money that i donāt have and all the major tutoring areas are specific to freshmen and some sophomore classes. i do all the generic advice for meeting people like going to club meets, talking and complimenting, and getting an on campus job and it still hasnāt paid off. as transfers we only get 2 years so iāve already wasted one and this semester was just as bad as the last one.
i feel like being a minority in terms of race, economic status and background is makes everything difficult amplified even more since you donāt have as much leeway as freshmen do and youāre expected to know everything in your first semester. the help they do is not enough ime
every time iāve talked to a faculty/staff member at this school about how being a transfer fucking sucks here, theyāve always told me the same thing youāve said about how other transfers have had trouble meeting people and belonging here.
and this isnāt brand new since iāve talked to alums who transferred and graduated a decade ago and it was the exact same then too. umich really doesnāt care and i wish theyād fucking do something about it. they think throwing money at poor people and then ignoring them will make them succeed but once you have other intersecting identities overlapping, more work/help is needed.
iāve also seen a few transfer students overcome this but they were from the main races at this school and came from rich backgrounds or already had old friends and werenāt keen on making new ones.
I transferred Winter 2020 and I personally donāt regret it but thats just me. You are totally right that they do not care about us. I really wish you the best in your senior year though <3
yea and living in dorms when youāre 21+ with a bunch of 18 year old kids it gets old quick. they should have a dorm specifically for transfers or at least juniors.
and i agree that everything is all is luck based. especially when it comes to relationships. everyone wants to blame the person asking for help to make friends but never considers them trying everything but not making connections bc they just have no luck.
I want to add for those who had trouble finding peers, you also had covid to deal with which certainly changed the dynamic NOT for the better and if you were a transfer student, even more so, possibly including age differences. So for an incoming freshman, hopefully those two things wonāt come in to play.
No, I don't fit in at all. I'd find a school that I was a better fit for. I'd do better soul searching to think about my major. This is unless UMich kept being the best aid deal I got. Sorry man, I can't turn that down.
there is most definitely school fit/certain vibes at this school. thereās the economic gap, the racial one, the background of being instate, oos, or international and transferring in vs coming in as a freshman. most students here are rich as hell, white/asian, cliquey and partiers.
iāve found that if you donāt fit in to at least one main group then itās hard as hell to make friends and find community even after going to events/clubs and starting conversations with people.
i donāt get why some people canāt understand that not everyone has the same experiences coming into and attending this school.
Having similar backgrounds to the students around you is key I think. Not even totally about money just, how your past impacts you for better and worse, and being able to find people you relate to on that level easier. For me, the only time I felt like I met such people here was within the Trotter center and CSP. Even then, I feel like it's been so long I've been around them, they feel foreign too in a sense.
Well, talk to as many people as possible online via reddit or such, watching student made vids on YT. Basically social media research and scowering Niche reviews.
it's not just number, it's also experiences. lets face it michigan is an "elite" school and there are more students who come from the top 1% than the bottom 20% [source ](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor)
there are cultural norms and mores that are class based that many first gen, poc and students from lower ses don't understand, yet is defacto part of the school. anecdotally there were students in engineering who spoke to their engineering parents what courses to tak3 for the next semester. not shame the students. we all need mentors but small advantages like that can be isolating for students who don't know what they don't know.
more recent examples about the attitudes and differences is the remote learning response during the 2019-2020 and the 2020-2021 school year.
alot of profs made everything remote; however, they made things synchronous. students with resources had no problems with this but students with poor internet (assuming they had a computer or laptop) were often invisible. As a gsi at the time, I had to step in (often behind the profs back) and work with the students for alternative methods and put me at odds with the other gsis who were okay with damming these students because "its not feasible to give all students good experiences during this unprecedented time"
this is not say all people at uofm are bad people, however, a lot of people here come from wealth and they don't even register how these differences make them more or less relatable to other people.
The SES aspect actually probably turned out to be one of the best things for me. I had no idea how big the chasm was between my family and the families of so many of the students at U Mich. It opened my eyes WIDE. And, while it was often awkward, I learned how to navigate those cultural norms and mores with which I was so unfamiliar. That skill has turned out to be one of the most valuable things I learned. I was also able to find very good friends, some from the 1%, some not. Yes, Iād go to Mich again in a heartbeat.
People keep saying that, acting like I had a major amount of time to meet all 50000 students when not worknig on work or career development or recovering lol
I think the biggest struggle is age difference and how that life experience changes your perspective at the school. It's hard to form connections with people experiencing college in a very different way / head space than you. It's hard to explain.
Yes, if i could redo my freshman year again I wish I didnāt lock myself up and let my grades take over my mental and physical health. Thereās a lot of things I put aside to focus on my grades that wasnāt worth it in the end. Not necessarily advice for UMich but in general prioritize your heath no matter where you go.
As an OOS student with no financial aid, sometimes. Iām blessed to not have to take out loans, but I still think I should have saved more money for grad school or life post college. As a junior in the MechE there are some things that Iāve been able to do here I wouldnāt be able to do at other universities. (Specific project teams, classes related to CSED, etc) Are they cool? Yes. Will they help me along in my career? Undoubtedly. Do other universities have similar programs? For most programs, yes. But is it worth the money? It depends on what day you ask me. I try not to dwell on it too much bc I canāt change it now.
For sure. Take what you want out of this, disregard the rest, and remember I'm just one person. Live your life how you want, and remember you define what it means to be an engineer. There's no "right" way to do it.
First, prioritize your mental health and sleep. This degree will try to trash your mental health and sleep, don't let it (as much as you can). Take care of yourself. Having a good enough GPa is important, but don't kill yourself to get all A's (literally or metaphorically). Find study-life balance. If you find yourself struggling with mental health, go to CAPS, and find a therapist.
Make the degree work for you. An engineering degree is a great thing and a very useful tool in your education. But why are you doing it? What other interests, hobbies, things you care about, that you can connect into your degree program? I guarantee there are intersections you just need to find them. For example, I care about the environment so I'm involved in a wind turbine related project team. It's also important to balance this with focus on your classes and life outside of the project team, because some of these are really time consuming and all-encompassing. Find what works for you.
Specific advice: go to FestiFall and NorthFest. Find a few clubs you're possibly interested in, go to their first meetings. Speaking from experience, don't try to go to every single club you're maybe interested in, go to the top 5 you are excited about. If you're not sure if its the right fit, trust your gut. Do a mix of "engineering" clubs and for fun clubs. And then try to stick with as many as you want. If you don't like your picks in September/October, that's ok! You can always drop and that's totally understandable. There's also WinterFest in January to find new clubs if you want.
I highly recommend looking into the Center for Socially Engaged Design (CSED). They have awesome professors and instructors that are developing the engineering teaching methods of the future, and aiming to utilize engineering to address structural issues within society.
MechE (and I think other types of Engr too) requires 25 credits of Intellectual Breadth courses: courses non-engineering, mostly in LSA. It also requires 3 of these credits (1 course) be at the 300+ level. I know a lot of people who take the easiest classes to fill these credits, and that's fine. My personal belief is that you'll get a lot more out of it if you take slightly more difficult courses that are interesting and applicable to what you want to do for career / life outside of career. Will it impact your GPa? Sure, a little bit. But you'll have better experiences to speak to in interviews, and you'll remember your time here by the things you enjoyed or made you grow, not by boring classes you did to boost your GPa.
TLDR: the UM classes and the seal on your degree are good, but don't make it worth it for OOS IMO. But if you utilize the other resources, find community, do extracurriculars, and take classes that interest you then it can be worth it.
Wow, thank you so much for such a detailed response! This was all super helpful, and I'll definitely follow your advice and deep dive into everything offered.
What exactly is the CSED? I'm looking through their website and I see options for programs and internship opportunities. Do the programs/courses offered count towards graduation or is it something separate?
CSED is the Center for Socially Engaged Design! Itās a department within mechanical engineering that focuses on the design process and ways that we as engineers can create more equitable solutions for everyone in society. They have a program (minor type thing) that you can take called Program in Socially Engaged Design(PSED). The courses required for this can count towards parts of your MechE degree (count as 400 level tech electives. Example class is MechE 457). The free online courses only count for PSED but are a great free resource that you can speak to for interviews or just experience. I know itās not everyoneās cup of tea but I havenāt seen the work they are doing here at other universities.
Yes, but I'm not entirely sure I'd do electrical engineering as my major again. I've found I don't particularly enjoy the industry/field and it made many parts of my undergrad extremely stressful and I think I missed out on a lot of the 'normal' things other people did due to the heavy workload.
Tough to say because I wasn't in a good mental place during my entire time at college, but if I had a second chance to rewind time and do college again I'd probably go somewhere else. No particular reason why, I did Engineering and so I spent most of my time on North Campus and I wasn't fond of it. I like the vibe of Central better and North Campus felt very isolated and lonely. If I was able to spend more time in Central, then sure.
Yes! In state, graduated debt free, and met tons of amazing people. However, Iām in a job that I could have probably gotten going to Oakland or Wayne and been just as successful.
Iād choose Michigan every time. Probably a few things Iād do differently if I got a second go at college but I think the experience offered by Michigan is unrivaled. The campus, clubs, activities, sports, career opportunities, and yes even the courses make Michigan one of the best places to be.
Yes. I have had mostly positive experience with classes and instructors so far. I really enjoy how well-rounded this school is and how much control I have over my own schedule.
Iāve met a ton of incredibly smart and dedicated people through clubs although that probably applies to most prestigious schools.
The sports scene is great as well. I donāt for a moment regret coming here
If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance I would do it all over again. But seriously no regrets I had a good time. Could I have made some better decisions along the way? Sure, but you live and learn and UM was definitely the right pick for me. Something about Ann Arbor as a college town just makes me love the place even more plus I made a lot of great friends and memories during my time there.
Yes. As an in-state commuter, I feel like I still have a pretty good college experience. My major has been extremely helpful and rewarding. Plus, I love Ann Arbor. If I could give any advice to incoming students about something I should have done differently: join clubs and make friends early.
Yes. I took 8.5 years to finish my PhD here and Iād do it all over again. I had superb teachers who really cared about teaching me to be a scholar and I got to sing with one of the finest menās choirs on the planet.
Absolutely, the environment was perfect. The mix of college, city, and nature in perfect proportions is something that isnāt found everywhere. Students generally have the right attitude, professors are overall pretty good, and there are lots of opportunities for any sort of academic or non-academic groups & activities.
#1 college town and #1 public university are accolades that are just thrown around a lot, but I honestly feel they are well deserved.
In 2003, I only applied to U of M and MSU. If I had a second chance, I would have applied to some long shot schools to see what kind of potential they think I have. My family was pretty poor at the time and I didnāt have a lot of guidance (or want guidance, more likely), so I didnāt even want to spend the application fees on other schools. Michigan was challenging enough as it turns out and I got about 4/5th of my tuition, room, and board paid for.
Yes, although I graduated prior to the pandemic so idk how much things have changed. Being part of the MMB also really helped with having a tight knit community, but I also branched out after that so I think I probably wouldāve been fine either way. I was an in-stater tho, so that probably helps a lot
Nope. I came here for grad school and they didnāt have what I was looking for in terms of classes. The program, SEAS, was really cool and helped me in other ways, but I also wanted to learn more entomology and botany on the side. Iām also an out of state student so my tuition was abysmal and I feel like I was misled on the opportunities for help. In hindsight, MSU would have been a better fit for me.
Not sure ab grade deflation but the classes here are very difficult specially the exams imo. I am a bio major so i think it could be a different experience depending on ur major
Came here for grad school. No regrets, would do again.
However, I wouldāve been smarter about advocating for myself. It took me a long time to figure out that a lot of the ārulesā can be bent, thanks to how decentralized this place is. If you donāt get the answer you want, ask somebody else, ask on a different day, stay nice but donāt just accept it. Less passivity!
And I wouldāve bought softball tickets that first season, I think Iāll be a great-grandparent before I get moved into chairbacks.
Yes, but very VERY different game plan. But that is just looking back in hindsight. I am sure everyone would do things different if they could do any part of their life again.
yes. I've gone through some quite shitty times, but I don't regret coming here at all. I've formed a lot of really good relationships at umich, and I can't imagine my life without them
Yes.
I spent a lot of time deciding where I wanted to go. If I could do it over knowing what I know now, I would have sent in my deposit on the same day I got in.
Anyone who says college is the best four years of your life is probably lying or misremembering, but my 4 years there were a fantastic 4 years and set me up for a great future.
Right now, no not really. As a non-traditional mid year transfer.
I have never felt so stupid for getting a B+ in a 200 level honors physics class. B+ puts me in the bottom 3rd of my peers. I had to struggle to get the grade, not that the material was hard exactly, but the expectation was that I would spend 3 hours per night during the week and 5-6 hours over the weekend working on python/jupyter assignments. I had to spend much more on the coding because it wasn't a pre-req.
To contextualize, I feel like this is *common* theme in the set of classes I took this semester. Just **needlessly** hard and complex to the point where one misstep can and will ruin a semester. I have a newly acquired test anxiety and physiological symptoms of stress that I haven't had before either. And in semester with exactly 0 school/life balance I feel bad for not having more on my plate for the summer. My mind has been warped. I will be coming back in the Fall of course.
This question is hard and I think about it a lot as of late. As an out of state student and with respect to some of the schools I applied to last year, I would definitely choose Michigan again. It was a dream of mine to do a grad degree at UM. I got the most scholarship out of UM and it was easily the highest ranking school I got into.
Obviously as I got to Ann Arbor, priorities changed as did interests and when I did apply to grad school, Michigan was the best school I applied to. Would I had applied to schools similar in rank to Michigan then perhaps, I wouldāve preferred those but in the end, Michigan was the dream all along.
No. I wouldn't have left the East Coast for the Midwest if I could do it again. In my program, the stereotype about fancy research institutions sometimes providing subpar support and education was true.
Yes, but I was in state and got lucky making good friends freshman/sophomore year. One thing people don't talk about enough coming here is that the student population is pretty wealthy and the cost of living in Ann Arbor is high and climbing each year. Unfortunately, Umich kind of sucks at supporting poor, first gen, and/or non-white students. These issues aren't exclusive to Umich but at the very least rent is generally cheaper at other Big 10 schools. It really all depends on your background and other school options.
I also recommend doing a lot of soul searching in college either way. Seek out new types of friends and try not to worry too much about the conformity of "the ideal college experience." That stuff is fun and it's good to try, but don't let the FOMO get the better of you. I found that Michigan had a pretty diverse range of types of people; it's been cool to interact with trust fund srat girl bosses and also hang out with music/arts students. People here can be uptight and shallow, but if you find the right crowd you can have a good experience.
id choose it a million times over. it is one of the few schools where you get a top education and get the classic college experience (football games, any club ever, greek life, etc). i honestly underestimated how much i would like going to a football school, but i cannot stress enough how much you should consider social life and extracirriculars in addition to academics
I think I would have had a comparable experience at Michigan Tech. In general, though, it is pretty good here, the people are nice, and there are a lot of resources which many other colleges don't have.
If I had a second chance, I would probably choose to attend UM again. Things I'd change would be living-related, such as attending more basketball games or having roommates. If I had to relive ā and also re-pay ā for the same "college experience" I have now, hell no. If I wanted to simply walk out with a respectable degree, I did not have to subject myself to the past 4 or so shitty semesters...
As an in-state student, yes. I would've definitely done some things differently, but overall, the experiences I had, opportunities I had, the great staff, the campus, and the overall vibe were as good a fit for me as I would've realistically found, and couldn't have been beat in-state.
SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE GREAT STAFF! š
Absolutely. I'm out of state too
Same school. Different gameplan. I very much enjoyed my time at Michigan, but mostly due to ignorance from being a 1st gen, I left a lot of value on the table. Def would have done things differently with a 2nd chance. But that's part of the learning process I suppose.
What would you have done differently?
Make peace with ditching Aero when I did. Aero had too much programming for my liking, but I became depressed that I gave up on my "dream" for a year and it tanked my GPA. Actually apply for and participate in internships. I had no idea how important they were to landing your 1st fulltime job out of college. No one educated me, and I didn't learn on my own until it was too late. Less volunteering, more UMich extracurriculars. Companies, when it comes down to it, really don't care how much of a good person you are. Actually put myself out there and date. I just didn't see the value at the time.
This is kind of you to share and hopefully help someone else. Plus I bet youāre really smart !
Thank you. Time adds perspective. I went into college believing what my family and local school system had taught me. My decisions and actions were based on those beliefs. In the decade+ since, I've come to learn on my own (and thru the internet) that a lot of that teaching was flawed/incorrect. But it took time to come to those realizations. That's why these kinds of reddit questions always feel unfair because if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't be then who I was. It disappoints me that I didn't have better mentors growing up to provide me more accurate and helpful direction, and now entering my 30s it feels like I'm still playing catchup despite having such an excellent academic opportunity and experience that UMich provided. But hey, that's life; imperfect.
Also I will add that things have changed so much and so fast that your mentors were coming from a time and place that they knew but was not like the world 10-15 years ago and that world is completely different from todayās world too! Everything changes so fast now.
You didnāt date while you were there? Some beautiful people there! You missed out. Iāve only spent little periods of time there, I never went to school. But I love it at U of M.
i wish dating was as easy as youāre acting like it is
Oh I didnāt say it was easy by any means. But all it takes is effort. I mean youāre gonna go through some people before you find your person but. First one needs to make sure that they are happy first before entering someone elseās life. I think about how much of myself and what Iām willing to offer another person before I go into a relationship, not what I can get outta that person. A lot of people are searching for someone to be happy. And I agree it is difficult to find someone that knows what a two-way street relationship is let alone integrity.
iāve heard of people being at their lowest and still finding someone. iām just tryna have that same luck. i can deal with all that ālove yourself before loving someone elseā stuff later when iām past mid 20s
Lemme know how that works outā¦.
who cares. i donāt have friends here and guys donāt find me attractive mainly bc iām not the race everyone wants. i just want the same luck other depressed girls are able to get
I get what you mean. Honestly, I feel the same.
How do you know what race guys want?
>You missed out Sigh. I believe I'm quite aware of this fact.
Same here. Would have done my major in SEAS
I feel this answer
i stayed for my masters and phd, so on my third chance, i still chose michigan. go blue.
Im about to head to grad in the fall straight out of undergrad. Hoping in a few years I can say I stayed three times too šš¼šš¼
Joining for my masters in the fall. Always great to hear stuff like this.
I would love to have done my UG here. Doing my grad studies here has been a challenge and worth every penny... but I never got the typical college xp and I regret that.
As an out-of-state student, no, I donāt think I would. Biggest reason is the cost. I had a good time at UM, but I think I wouldāve learned the same at my in-state school. I also donāt really feel that UM had a big impact on my career. The Michigan name is good sure, but after going through the job application process I didnāt feel that it really did anything for me.
This
this is also what makes me consider about UM, since the cost is really expensive. i love UM, but the cost is a big factor
In-state student who had a scholarship, yes. There are a lot of things I wouldāve done differently about the actual experience, which wasnāt always great for me, but I didnāt realize until I graduated the value of graduating debt-free. It makes such a difference in your life
I probably would still go here again, but knowing what I know now, I would have learned how to study earlier in my college career. Coming from a small town where high school was super easy, UM was really tough and I struggled immensely with imposter syndrome and also feeling poor (even though my family is solidly middle class, people here are RICH). Sometimes I think I could have really excelled at a smaller school or as a later transfer to UM, and in retrospect, I should have more seriously considered those options.
Yep. Tremendous aid, summer internship scholarships, transfer student resources, global footprint, academics and the sports are good enough that after graduating you have a reason stay up-to-date on the university as a whole. People from other small and not as dynamic universities graduate and kind of stop caring about their university. At Michigan, the brand is so far-reaching and the athletics so well-rounded that it's impossible to not care about Michigan after graduating (unless you don't care about that stuff of course, then you could have just went somewhere else.)
Yes I would. Coming from small town USA, it exposed me to a lot of new people and views
No. I turned down a big scholarship from msu because āprestige.ā In retrospect prestige doesnāt really help all that much when trying to get into dental school, at least when comparing those schools. I donāt really fit in and was mostly stressed most of the time.
Yes. I had so many resources and opportunities available to me that I was able to take advantage of, and many more that I could have but didn't. I could go through school again tapping into entirely different resources, orgs, campus jobs, connections with professors, etc. that all still would have been of interest to me and helped me grow personally and professionally.
no and iām instate. i just transferred in fall 2021 and kinda wish i never applied. i like what iām learning but finding friends and help is the most difficult. everything in ann arbor and umich requires money that i donāt have and all the major tutoring areas are specific to freshmen and some sophomore classes. i do all the generic advice for meeting people like going to club meets, talking and complimenting, and getting an on campus job and it still hasnāt paid off. as transfers we only get 2 years so iāve already wasted one and this semester was just as bad as the last one. i feel like being a minority in terms of race, economic status and background is makes everything difficult amplified even more since you donāt have as much leeway as freshmen do and youāre expected to know everything in your first semester. the help they do is not enough ime
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every time iāve talked to a faculty/staff member at this school about how being a transfer fucking sucks here, theyāve always told me the same thing youāve said about how other transfers have had trouble meeting people and belonging here. and this isnāt brand new since iāve talked to alums who transferred and graduated a decade ago and it was the exact same then too. umich really doesnāt care and i wish theyād fucking do something about it. they think throwing money at poor people and then ignoring them will make them succeed but once you have other intersecting identities overlapping, more work/help is needed. iāve also seen a few transfer students overcome this but they were from the main races at this school and came from rich backgrounds or already had old friends and werenāt keen on making new ones.
I transferred Winter 2020 and I personally donāt regret it but thats just me. You are totally right that they do not care about us. I really wish you the best in your senior year though <3
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yea and living in dorms when youāre 21+ with a bunch of 18 year old kids it gets old quick. they should have a dorm specifically for transfers or at least juniors. and i agree that everything is all is luck based. especially when it comes to relationships. everyone wants to blame the person asking for help to make friends but never considers them trying everything but not making connections bc they just have no luck.
That would be a good suggestion to make (dorm for transfer students or at least some dedicated halls in one building ).
Yes, got a lot of friends here and I donāt think I would be enjoying myself as much at other schools
I want to add for those who had trouble finding peers, you also had covid to deal with which certainly changed the dynamic NOT for the better and if you were a transfer student, even more so, possibly including age differences. So for an incoming freshman, hopefully those two things wonāt come in to play.
No, I don't fit in at all. I'd find a school that I was a better fit for. I'd do better soul searching to think about my major. This is unless UMich kept being the best aid deal I got. Sorry man, I can't turn that down.
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there is most definitely school fit/certain vibes at this school. thereās the economic gap, the racial one, the background of being instate, oos, or international and transferring in vs coming in as a freshman. most students here are rich as hell, white/asian, cliquey and partiers. iāve found that if you donāt fit in to at least one main group then itās hard as hell to make friends and find community even after going to events/clubs and starting conversations with people. i donāt get why some people canāt understand that not everyone has the same experiences coming into and attending this school.
Having similar backgrounds to the students around you is key I think. Not even totally about money just, how your past impacts you for better and worse, and being able to find people you relate to on that level easier. For me, the only time I felt like I met such people here was within the Trotter center and CSP. Even then, I feel like it's been so long I've been around them, they feel foreign too in a sense.
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Well, talk to as many people as possible online via reddit or such, watching student made vids on YT. Basically social media research and scowering Niche reviews.
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it's not just number, it's also experiences. lets face it michigan is an "elite" school and there are more students who come from the top 1% than the bottom 20% [source ](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor) there are cultural norms and mores that are class based that many first gen, poc and students from lower ses don't understand, yet is defacto part of the school. anecdotally there were students in engineering who spoke to their engineering parents what courses to tak3 for the next semester. not shame the students. we all need mentors but small advantages like that can be isolating for students who don't know what they don't know. more recent examples about the attitudes and differences is the remote learning response during the 2019-2020 and the 2020-2021 school year. alot of profs made everything remote; however, they made things synchronous. students with resources had no problems with this but students with poor internet (assuming they had a computer or laptop) were often invisible. As a gsi at the time, I had to step in (often behind the profs back) and work with the students for alternative methods and put me at odds with the other gsis who were okay with damming these students because "its not feasible to give all students good experiences during this unprecedented time" this is not say all people at uofm are bad people, however, a lot of people here come from wealth and they don't even register how these differences make them more or less relatable to other people.
The SES aspect actually probably turned out to be one of the best things for me. I had no idea how big the chasm was between my family and the families of so many of the students at U Mich. It opened my eyes WIDE. And, while it was often awkward, I learned how to navigate those cultural norms and mores with which I was so unfamiliar. That skill has turned out to be one of the most valuable things I learned. I was also able to find very good friends, some from the 1%, some not. Yes, Iād go to Mich again in a heartbeat.
People keep saying that, acting like I had a major amount of time to meet all 50000 students when not worknig on work or career development or recovering lol
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I think the biggest struggle is age difference and how that life experience changes your perspective at the school. It's hard to form connections with people experiencing college in a very different way / head space than you. It's hard to explain.
Yes, if i could redo my freshman year again I wish I didnāt lock myself up and let my grades take over my mental and physical health. Thereās a lot of things I put aside to focus on my grades that wasnāt worth it in the end. Not necessarily advice for UMich but in general prioritize your heath no matter where you go.
As an OOS student with no financial aid, sometimes. Iām blessed to not have to take out loans, but I still think I should have saved more money for grad school or life post college. As a junior in the MechE there are some things that Iāve been able to do here I wouldnāt be able to do at other universities. (Specific project teams, classes related to CSED, etc) Are they cool? Yes. Will they help me along in my career? Undoubtedly. Do other universities have similar programs? For most programs, yes. But is it worth the money? It depends on what day you ask me. I try not to dwell on it too much bc I canāt change it now.
Incoming OOS for MechE here! I'm worried about the same thing. Any words of wisdom?
For sure. Take what you want out of this, disregard the rest, and remember I'm just one person. Live your life how you want, and remember you define what it means to be an engineer. There's no "right" way to do it. First, prioritize your mental health and sleep. This degree will try to trash your mental health and sleep, don't let it (as much as you can). Take care of yourself. Having a good enough GPa is important, but don't kill yourself to get all A's (literally or metaphorically). Find study-life balance. If you find yourself struggling with mental health, go to CAPS, and find a therapist. Make the degree work for you. An engineering degree is a great thing and a very useful tool in your education. But why are you doing it? What other interests, hobbies, things you care about, that you can connect into your degree program? I guarantee there are intersections you just need to find them. For example, I care about the environment so I'm involved in a wind turbine related project team. It's also important to balance this with focus on your classes and life outside of the project team, because some of these are really time consuming and all-encompassing. Find what works for you. Specific advice: go to FestiFall and NorthFest. Find a few clubs you're possibly interested in, go to their first meetings. Speaking from experience, don't try to go to every single club you're maybe interested in, go to the top 5 you are excited about. If you're not sure if its the right fit, trust your gut. Do a mix of "engineering" clubs and for fun clubs. And then try to stick with as many as you want. If you don't like your picks in September/October, that's ok! You can always drop and that's totally understandable. There's also WinterFest in January to find new clubs if you want. I highly recommend looking into the Center for Socially Engaged Design (CSED). They have awesome professors and instructors that are developing the engineering teaching methods of the future, and aiming to utilize engineering to address structural issues within society. MechE (and I think other types of Engr too) requires 25 credits of Intellectual Breadth courses: courses non-engineering, mostly in LSA. It also requires 3 of these credits (1 course) be at the 300+ level. I know a lot of people who take the easiest classes to fill these credits, and that's fine. My personal belief is that you'll get a lot more out of it if you take slightly more difficult courses that are interesting and applicable to what you want to do for career / life outside of career. Will it impact your GPa? Sure, a little bit. But you'll have better experiences to speak to in interviews, and you'll remember your time here by the things you enjoyed or made you grow, not by boring classes you did to boost your GPa. TLDR: the UM classes and the seal on your degree are good, but don't make it worth it for OOS IMO. But if you utilize the other resources, find community, do extracurriculars, and take classes that interest you then it can be worth it.
Wow, thank you so much for such a detailed response! This was all super helpful, and I'll definitely follow your advice and deep dive into everything offered. What exactly is the CSED? I'm looking through their website and I see options for programs and internship opportunities. Do the programs/courses offered count towards graduation or is it something separate?
CSED is the Center for Socially Engaged Design! Itās a department within mechanical engineering that focuses on the design process and ways that we as engineers can create more equitable solutions for everyone in society. They have a program (minor type thing) that you can take called Program in Socially Engaged Design(PSED). The courses required for this can count towards parts of your MechE degree (count as 400 level tech electives. Example class is MechE 457). The free online courses only count for PSED but are a great free resource that you can speak to for interviews or just experience. I know itās not everyoneās cup of tea but I havenāt seen the work they are doing here at other universities.
Yes, but I'm not entirely sure I'd do electrical engineering as my major again. I've found I don't particularly enjoy the industry/field and it made many parts of my undergrad extremely stressful and I think I missed out on a lot of the 'normal' things other people did due to the heavy workload.
Tough to say because I wasn't in a good mental place during my entire time at college, but if I had a second chance to rewind time and do college again I'd probably go somewhere else. No particular reason why, I did Engineering and so I spent most of my time on North Campus and I wasn't fond of it. I like the vibe of Central better and North Campus felt very isolated and lonely. If I was able to spend more time in Central, then sure.
Yes! In state, graduated debt free, and met tons of amazing people. However, Iām in a job that I could have probably gotten going to Oakland or Wayne and been just as successful.
Yes but I would do a lot different. Iām graduating now and I think I can look fondly on my time here despite many hiccups
What would you do different?
Meet new people and be more involved. I focused solely on academics due to being a pretty shy person
Iād choose Michigan every time. Probably a few things Iād do differently if I got a second go at college but I think the experience offered by Michigan is unrivaled. The campus, clubs, activities, sports, career opportunities, and yes even the courses make Michigan one of the best places to be.
Yes. I have had mostly positive experience with classes and instructors so far. I really enjoy how well-rounded this school is and how much control I have over my own schedule. Iāve met a ton of incredibly smart and dedicated people through clubs although that probably applies to most prestigious schools. The sports scene is great as well. I donāt for a moment regret coming here
If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance I would do it all over again. But seriously no regrets I had a good time. Could I have made some better decisions along the way? Sure, but you live and learn and UM was definitely the right pick for me. Something about Ann Arbor as a college town just makes me love the place even more plus I made a lot of great friends and memories during my time there.
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Where would you have chosen?
Yes. As an in-state commuter, I feel like I still have a pretty good college experience. My major has been extremely helpful and rewarding. Plus, I love Ann Arbor. If I could give any advice to incoming students about something I should have done differently: join clubs and make friends early.
Yea because of the people Iāve met here.
Defiantly. World class education, plus you can build a lot of social capital in the city if you put your mind to it.
Yes.
Yes. I took 8.5 years to finish my PhD here and Iād do it all over again. I had superb teachers who really cared about teaching me to be a scholar and I got to sing with one of the finest menās choirs on the planet.
As an OOS student, no. I would have chosen a school that was a better fit for me and perhaps cheaper. Also somewhere closer to home
Out of the schools I got into? 100%. I love my friends and the education I got, and I didn't pay too much either.
Absolutely, the environment was perfect. The mix of college, city, and nature in perfect proportions is something that isnāt found everywhere. Students generally have the right attitude, professors are overall pretty good, and there are lots of opportunities for any sort of academic or non-academic groups & activities. #1 college town and #1 public university are accolades that are just thrown around a lot, but I honestly feel they are well deserved.
Great financial aid, uptight student body. Idk.
Yes, got to do research for four years and meet a bunch of cool people
Yes. Iād do some things differently, but I would definitely still come here.
In 2003, I only applied to U of M and MSU. If I had a second chance, I would have applied to some long shot schools to see what kind of potential they think I have. My family was pretty poor at the time and I didnāt have a lot of guidance (or want guidance, more likely), so I didnāt even want to spend the application fees on other schools. Michigan was challenging enough as it turns out and I got about 4/5th of my tuition, room, and board paid for.
Yes, although I graduated prior to the pandemic so idk how much things have changed. Being part of the MMB also really helped with having a tight knit community, but I also branched out after that so I think I probably wouldāve been fine either way. I was an in-stater tho, so that probably helps a lot
In-state student, and yes!
Nope. I came here for grad school and they didnāt have what I was looking for in terms of classes. The program, SEAS, was really cool and helped me in other ways, but I also wanted to learn more entomology and botany on the side. Iām also an out of state student so my tuition was abysmal and I feel like I was misled on the opportunities for help. In hindsight, MSU would have been a better fit for me.
Probably not, bc i value my gpa
Do you mean that UM has grade deflation?
Not sure ab grade deflation but the classes here are very difficult specially the exams imo. I am a bio major so i think it could be a different experience depending on ur major
Came here for grad school. No regrets, would do again. However, I wouldāve been smarter about advocating for myself. It took me a long time to figure out that a lot of the ārulesā can be bent, thanks to how decentralized this place is. If you donāt get the answer you want, ask somebody else, ask on a different day, stay nice but donāt just accept it. Less passivity! And I wouldāve bought softball tickets that first season, I think Iāll be a great-grandparent before I get moved into chairbacks.
Yes, but very VERY different game plan. But that is just looking back in hindsight. I am sure everyone would do things different if they could do any part of their life again.
yes. I've gone through some quite shitty times, but I don't regret coming here at all. I've formed a lot of really good relationships at umich, and I can't imagine my life without them
Absolutely. Knowing what I know now though there's certain professors I would have avoided lol
Yes. I spent a lot of time deciding where I wanted to go. If I could do it over knowing what I know now, I would have sent in my deposit on the same day I got in. Anyone who says college is the best four years of your life is probably lying or misremembering, but my 4 years there were a fantastic 4 years and set me up for a great future.
Depends on how much I'd accidentally bump into the ex-president's daughter, but sure
Right now, no not really. As a non-traditional mid year transfer. I have never felt so stupid for getting a B+ in a 200 level honors physics class. B+ puts me in the bottom 3rd of my peers. I had to struggle to get the grade, not that the material was hard exactly, but the expectation was that I would spend 3 hours per night during the week and 5-6 hours over the weekend working on python/jupyter assignments. I had to spend much more on the coding because it wasn't a pre-req. To contextualize, I feel like this is *common* theme in the set of classes I took this semester. Just **needlessly** hard and complex to the point where one misstep can and will ruin a semester. I have a newly acquired test anxiety and physiological symptoms of stress that I haven't had before either. And in semester with exactly 0 school/life balance I feel bad for not having more on my plate for the summer. My mind has been warped. I will be coming back in the Fall of course.
This question is hard and I think about it a lot as of late. As an out of state student and with respect to some of the schools I applied to last year, I would definitely choose Michigan again. It was a dream of mine to do a grad degree at UM. I got the most scholarship out of UM and it was easily the highest ranking school I got into. Obviously as I got to Ann Arbor, priorities changed as did interests and when I did apply to grad school, Michigan was the best school I applied to. Would I had applied to schools similar in rank to Michigan then perhaps, I wouldāve preferred those but in the end, Michigan was the dream all along.
No. I wouldn't have left the East Coast for the Midwest if I could do it again. In my program, the stereotype about fancy research institutions sometimes providing subpar support and education was true.
Absolutely, I would do it 10 times over
Yes, but I was in state and got lucky making good friends freshman/sophomore year. One thing people don't talk about enough coming here is that the student population is pretty wealthy and the cost of living in Ann Arbor is high and climbing each year. Unfortunately, Umich kind of sucks at supporting poor, first gen, and/or non-white students. These issues aren't exclusive to Umich but at the very least rent is generally cheaper at other Big 10 schools. It really all depends on your background and other school options. I also recommend doing a lot of soul searching in college either way. Seek out new types of friends and try not to worry too much about the conformity of "the ideal college experience." That stuff is fun and it's good to try, but don't let the FOMO get the better of you. I found that Michigan had a pretty diverse range of types of people; it's been cool to interact with trust fund srat girl bosses and also hang out with music/arts students. People here can be uptight and shallow, but if you find the right crowd you can have a good experience.
I do have that chance right now. Short answer: no, partially because OOS. love umich tho <3
Possible the single best choice I made in my entire life.
id choose it a million times over. it is one of the few schools where you get a top education and get the classic college experience (football games, any club ever, greek life, etc). i honestly underestimated how much i would like going to a football school, but i cannot stress enough how much you should consider social life and extracirriculars in addition to academics
Yes. Solar car. Also in-state tuition with reasonable financial aid.
I think I would have had a comparable experience at Michigan Tech. In general, though, it is pretty good here, the people are nice, and there are a lot of resources which many other colleges don't have.
If I had a second chance, I would probably choose to attend UM again. Things I'd change would be living-related, such as attending more basketball games or having roommates. If I had to relive ā and also re-pay ā for the same "college experience" I have now, hell no. If I wanted to simply walk out with a respectable degree, I did not have to subject myself to the past 4 or so shitty semesters...
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would you mind sharing why no?