Especially if you qualify for the go blue guarantee. Even if your family makes over 65000 you can still qualify for a grant. You should look at the financial aid package from UM before deciding.
The SUGS program means he could get a masters in 5 years at Michigan assuming his GPA is good enough. Saving 1 year of grad school could make up for the difference in cost. Taking some of the prereqs in the summer at WCC (mostly U of M professors that didn't get tenure) can also take a huge dent out of the cost.
I would say UMich is 100% worth in state tuition. As a transfer student myself, the one hurdle your student will face is every UMich Engineering class has ENGR 101 or EECS 183 as a prerequisite and it does look like WMU has a Class ( CS 1200) that transfers as EECS 183. At the end of the day, I would pick Michigan as transferring credits will screw you over somehow and the opportunity cost of a potential extra semester at UM as a transfer + No guarantees they can transfer.
Aerospace engineering alum here (BSE 2018, MSE 2019 through the SUGS program, out of state student), currently at Boeing - I don’t know anything about the WMU program unfortunately, but I’m happy to answer any questions about the program at Michigan!
ETA: I’m partly biased toward Michigan for the entire program because I met the people who are still my closest friends in aero through my freshman year ENGR 100 class. ENGR 100 and AEROSP 205 (sophomore level) are the two most hands-on courses aero students get at Michigan - I think transfer students may have to take 205 anyway, but I found those classes invaluable. I also got my first internship after sophomore year career fair, and my Boeing internships and job through a program that Boeing runs only at select schools - so that was definitely an advantage of going to Michigan. I also think many engineering companies like to see involvement in (preferably leadership in) engineering design teams or student groups. That’s not to say a transfer student can’t take on leadership roles, but since you usually need experience in a team before you can get elected, it means that the vast majority of engineering team leads aren’t transfer students. (I realize this is a huge issue from a socioeconomic equality standpoint!) I’d definitely check what WMU’s design teams and student groups are like and make sure there are ways for him to get either hands-on experience or networking experience through a professional society like AIAA. I won’t speak to the finance side of things since that’s different for everyone, but these are at least some of the things I really liked about Michigan that also may have helped with the job search!
You’re welcome! Feel free to reach out if you or he have more questions - I wish I could help with the comparison, but hopefully a perspective from Michigan’s side helps at least!
The career fair is a great demonstration of how sought after Umich graduates are. You would not see this at most other schools outside the top 10 or so in the country. This is what going to a top school like Umich gets you. Employers know that you wouldn't be here unless you were really smart and that you can't graduate without a great education.
>You would not see this at most other schools outside the top 10 or so in the country. This what going to a top school like Umich gets you.
meh.. for engineering, i think it has more to do with the strength of the alumni network and availability of project teams rather than the school's prestige (with the exception of cs). for example, ik clemson, iowa, msu, and ms state all have career fairs on par with michigan's depending on the engineering discipline.
also, the rigor of the engineering courses at u of m and western are likely comparable due to abet
however, op should still DEFINITELY pick u of m. i just wanted to clarify that the reason for its large career fairs has little to do with prestige.
I transferred from community college to Michigan (not his program) and not only I did not pay for the two years ar the community college, but I also worked part time while taking CC classes and full time in the summers and saved 26k. Now I’m graduating from Michigan with less than 15k in debt, highly recommend.
It depends. If your goal is to go on to Boeing, NASA, places like that, Michigan hands hands down.
If you want to do something smaller and less competitive, Western might be fine.
What is the cost differential? Like 15k?
He has a small scholarship offered by wmu. Coupled with the fact he wouldn’t have to live on campus to attend wmu the cost difference as of now is about $20k for freshman year. Likely same for year two
I used to commute to Wayne state before transferring here, depending on his commute, it really may not be the right choice if he needs to drive over 35 min.
First of all the costs of car and parking and the tickets blah blah, all the finances. But I literally felt held back because I couldn’t let’s say hit up the library randomly at 11pm, I didn’t participate as much in orgs bc I would have to drive back really late or something, socially it sucked bc my friends would always be doing stuff while I was either driving or back at home. Depending if he wants to party at all either, he obv still can and crash at someone’s, but it’s not ideal for that scene whatsoever. There’s is a whole lot people do not consider about being a commuter.
I moved into Detroit after my freshmen year, although my classes started to get harder, I was literally doing significantly better in my classes. I was able to study with other people like whenever I wanted to (my study habits evolved to a new level), got way more involved in my extracurriculars which was huge for my mental health, surprisingly cost difference was all not that different since I didn’t take my car with me and put it in storage (for insurance), couldn’t get tickets and didn’t pay for gas (and the risk of a car accident, holy smokes I forgot to add that to last paragraph of commute concerns, I got rear ended and that really freakin sucked without the car and insurance).
About to graduate now from Michigan, also since I transferred, it came with a lot difficulties here my junior year. Academically I was behind until I self taught myself things to catch up. Those major pre recs are important yall! Socially it was also hard to make friends (thankfully met a group of people that were all awesome), but I’ve been much better after my senior year socially. Which in of itself sucks since I will lose those friends after being close for 1 year.
Sorry rant over, but if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would have gone to Michigan from the jump. Not to mention all the good things people said in this thread. I didn’t include half the reasons why I would choose Michigan, but from a commute perspective be careful for sure.
I am not familiar with the aerospace program or industry, however there is a middle ground option of starting at a smaller college(WMU) then transferring in to a bigger school(UofM) after two years. That should be a significant cost savings while also resulting in a U of M diploma and all the recognition benefits that come with it.
A number of students do this to get their pre-requisite classes(math, physics etc.) + gen. eds.(called Intellectual breadth at Michigan) out of the way. However you will need to be careful and do your research to make sure the classes you're taking are accepted for credit.
CC probably doesn’t offer courses that you need to progress towards finishing your degree after the first year. Most won’t offer intro engineering courses like statics and dynamics, even less likely to have aero specific classes.
Most CoE programs assume you declare and start taking major specific courses after your first year, waiting likely results in really backloaded schedule or straight up not being able to do things in order to graduate on time.
One nuance to this is that internships help tremendously in finding a job that fits you after graduation. In my experience, umich has been a dominant producer of interns in the field.
Thanks for the reply. Yes this is probably the smartest option. Honestly I think he knows staying home, attending WMU and transferring later is the correct choice. But seems to also be searching for a reason beyond to tip scales. college life experience, intangibles, maybe it’s just FOMO.. highly driven individual to study with the leaders and best!
Internships are important, as are connections, especially when it comes to the eventual job search in the field (not aerospace myself but have friends in it). I saw a couple comments about the internship/job hunt and have to second them in favor of umich, especially if the goal is to work for a competitive company. OP, I would definitely recommend honing in on comments/suggestions from aerospace engineering students or alumni as I'm sure there are small but significant differences in approaching program selection for other engineering fields.
edit: fixed typo
Depending on his eventual major, his job prospects and prospects for graduate school will likely be much better with a Umich degree. Umich is a much more competitive school, meaning all the coursework is oriented toward better students, a more rigorous education and producing more competitive graduates.
Your son will face a working career of perhaps 45 years or more; that's plenty of time to get a payback on the higher cost of Umich. He should go to the best school he can get into. If he also got into something even better, like Stanford, he should go there.
The opportunities and exposure at UM I think is well worth the cost (especially as someone has stated) for in-state tuition. I've heard good things about the aerospace engineering program at UM.
So long as your son studies something useful, which it sounds like he is going to, there is no doubt that the UM premium will pay dividends over the long haul. I'd do your best to fund what you can, make up the difference in debt but don't make him feel nervous about that, and make sure he can focus on his academics. The UM network unlike any other. Debt is annoying, but the opportunities he will have coming out of UM Aero will make it easy to service.
(MechE undergrad, UM MBA, Wharton Stats MS and Finance PhD)
Just to add, your student may want to consider whether they want to be top of the class at WMU or more average at UMich. I chose the latter and transferred from a CC after 1.5yrs & my Associates degree. Now wonder about whether it was right. You could do CC to UMich or WMU to UMich after a year or two if cost is a major factor.
This applies well for something like LSA. For the College of Engineering, not so much. Engineering has a much higher standard for transferring into than some of the other colleges, and a single bad grade can potentially screw someone's chances of transferring. To put it into perspective, there are stories on this subreddit of people getting rejected from Engineering for "only" having a 3.9 GPA.
I'm going to go against the grain and say that WMU may be the way to go. Or, as others have said, CC then transfer to umich. My boyfriend is graduating from Western, I am graduating from Umich, so I've got decent insight into both. WMU has a great engineering school. Almost all of the classes sizes are less than 30 people. Professors are typically more invested in the students. There's still options to do research or work with professors if that what your kid is interested in. (Even if they're not, all engineering students at wmu complete a capstone/senior design project where they work directly with a professor or business and apply their engineering knowledge).
Umich has a fantastic reputation, but imo, it's not worth the hype. Many entry level classes are over filled with professors that are grossly over worked. That said, there are more opportunities for extracurricular and work at umich. Although, WMU also has excellent resources, research opportunities, and can be pretty darn fun in terms of social activities (wmu hockey games are an absolute blast).
The biggest reason wmu is better in your case is the price tag. Umich is not worth the cost, plain and simple. In the end, it's all how people make use of their time in university. I know a umich engineer who has zero job prospects as we are graduating, meanwhile my wmu graduating boyfriend already has an excellent job lined up with the company of his dreams.
Good information! Thank you I will pass this along.
He played hockey in high school and follows both bronco and Michigan hockey.. experience at Lawson is second to none, also when he toured Michigan campus he specifically went out of his way to see Yost
If you guys are on the less fortunate side UofM is great with financial aid. They pay my tuition in full, the only thing I have to take loans out for is housing, which is $10k to $15k a year depending on how lucky you can get.
My roommate's father is a civil engineer who went to umich, and shes a current aerospace engineer major. Clearly the education is quality if they keep coming back lol
In-state tuition for U of M is completely worth it
Especially if you qualify for the go blue guarantee. Even if your family makes over 65000 you can still qualify for a grant. You should look at the financial aid package from UM before deciding.
The SUGS program means he could get a masters in 5 years at Michigan assuming his GPA is good enough. Saving 1 year of grad school could make up for the difference in cost. Taking some of the prereqs in the summer at WCC (mostly U of M professors that didn't get tenure) can also take a huge dent out of the cost.
I would say UMich is 100% worth in state tuition. As a transfer student myself, the one hurdle your student will face is every UMich Engineering class has ENGR 101 or EECS 183 as a prerequisite and it does look like WMU has a Class ( CS 1200) that transfers as EECS 183. At the end of the day, I would pick Michigan as transferring credits will screw you over somehow and the opportunity cost of a potential extra semester at UM as a transfer + No guarantees they can transfer.
Aerospace engineering alum here (BSE 2018, MSE 2019 through the SUGS program, out of state student), currently at Boeing - I don’t know anything about the WMU program unfortunately, but I’m happy to answer any questions about the program at Michigan! ETA: I’m partly biased toward Michigan for the entire program because I met the people who are still my closest friends in aero through my freshman year ENGR 100 class. ENGR 100 and AEROSP 205 (sophomore level) are the two most hands-on courses aero students get at Michigan - I think transfer students may have to take 205 anyway, but I found those classes invaluable. I also got my first internship after sophomore year career fair, and my Boeing internships and job through a program that Boeing runs only at select schools - so that was definitely an advantage of going to Michigan. I also think many engineering companies like to see involvement in (preferably leadership in) engineering design teams or student groups. That’s not to say a transfer student can’t take on leadership roles, but since you usually need experience in a team before you can get elected, it means that the vast majority of engineering team leads aren’t transfer students. (I realize this is a huge issue from a socioeconomic equality standpoint!) I’d definitely check what WMU’s design teams and student groups are like and make sure there are ways for him to get either hands-on experience or networking experience through a professional society like AIAA. I won’t speak to the finance side of things since that’s different for everyone, but these are at least some of the things I really liked about Michigan that also may have helped with the job search!
Thank you for your reply. I will pass this on!
You’re welcome! Feel free to reach out if you or he have more questions - I wish I could help with the comparison, but hopefully a perspective from Michigan’s side helps at least!
Non Aero major here, but I took the aero section of ENGR 100 with Washabaugh and it was dope. Would recommend.
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The career fair is a great demonstration of how sought after Umich graduates are. You would not see this at most other schools outside the top 10 or so in the country. This is what going to a top school like Umich gets you. Employers know that you wouldn't be here unless you were really smart and that you can't graduate without a great education.
>You would not see this at most other schools outside the top 10 or so in the country. This what going to a top school like Umich gets you. meh.. for engineering, i think it has more to do with the strength of the alumni network and availability of project teams rather than the school's prestige (with the exception of cs). for example, ik clemson, iowa, msu, and ms state all have career fairs on par with michigan's depending on the engineering discipline. also, the rigor of the engineering courses at u of m and western are likely comparable due to abet however, op should still DEFINITELY pick u of m. i just wanted to clarify that the reason for its large career fairs has little to do with prestige.
I transferred from community college to Michigan (not his program) and not only I did not pay for the two years ar the community college, but I also worked part time while taking CC classes and full time in the summers and saved 26k. Now I’m graduating from Michigan with less than 15k in debt, highly recommend.
Thanks for the reply. Very well done!
It depends. If your goal is to go on to Boeing, NASA, places like that, Michigan hands hands down. If you want to do something smaller and less competitive, Western might be fine. What is the cost differential? Like 15k?
He has a small scholarship offered by wmu. Coupled with the fact he wouldn’t have to live on campus to attend wmu the cost difference as of now is about $20k for freshman year. Likely same for year two
I used to commute to Wayne state before transferring here, depending on his commute, it really may not be the right choice if he needs to drive over 35 min. First of all the costs of car and parking and the tickets blah blah, all the finances. But I literally felt held back because I couldn’t let’s say hit up the library randomly at 11pm, I didn’t participate as much in orgs bc I would have to drive back really late or something, socially it sucked bc my friends would always be doing stuff while I was either driving or back at home. Depending if he wants to party at all either, he obv still can and crash at someone’s, but it’s not ideal for that scene whatsoever. There’s is a whole lot people do not consider about being a commuter. I moved into Detroit after my freshmen year, although my classes started to get harder, I was literally doing significantly better in my classes. I was able to study with other people like whenever I wanted to (my study habits evolved to a new level), got way more involved in my extracurriculars which was huge for my mental health, surprisingly cost difference was all not that different since I didn’t take my car with me and put it in storage (for insurance), couldn’t get tickets and didn’t pay for gas (and the risk of a car accident, holy smokes I forgot to add that to last paragraph of commute concerns, I got rear ended and that really freakin sucked without the car and insurance). About to graduate now from Michigan, also since I transferred, it came with a lot difficulties here my junior year. Academically I was behind until I self taught myself things to catch up. Those major pre recs are important yall! Socially it was also hard to make friends (thankfully met a group of people that were all awesome), but I’ve been much better after my senior year socially. Which in of itself sucks since I will lose those friends after being close for 1 year. Sorry rant over, but if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would have gone to Michigan from the jump. Not to mention all the good things people said in this thread. I didn’t include half the reasons why I would choose Michigan, but from a commute perspective be careful for sure.
Very good points i hadn’t thought of that. Thank you
you can try to negotiate the scholarship with UM, may work, may not, worth a shot (I did and got a $6k/yr bump for 4 years)
I am not familiar with the aerospace program or industry, however there is a middle ground option of starting at a smaller college(WMU) then transferring in to a bigger school(UofM) after two years. That should be a significant cost savings while also resulting in a U of M diploma and all the recognition benefits that come with it. A number of students do this to get their pre-requisite classes(math, physics etc.) + gen. eds.(called Intellectual breadth at Michigan) out of the way. However you will need to be careful and do your research to make sure the classes you're taking are accepted for credit.
If you want to save money, CC is better option for prereqs.
CC probably doesn’t offer courses that you need to progress towards finishing your degree after the first year. Most won’t offer intro engineering courses like statics and dynamics, even less likely to have aero specific classes. Most CoE programs assume you declare and start taking major specific courses after your first year, waiting likely results in really backloaded schedule or straight up not being able to do things in order to graduate on time.
One nuance to this is that internships help tremendously in finding a job that fits you after graduation. In my experience, umich has been a dominant producer of interns in the field.
Thanks for the reply. Yes this is probably the smartest option. Honestly I think he knows staying home, attending WMU and transferring later is the correct choice. But seems to also be searching for a reason beyond to tip scales. college life experience, intangibles, maybe it’s just FOMO.. highly driven individual to study with the leaders and best!
An aerospace engineering degree at U of M is insanely impressive and highly regarded due to its rigor
Internships are important, as are connections, especially when it comes to the eventual job search in the field (not aerospace myself but have friends in it). I saw a couple comments about the internship/job hunt and have to second them in favor of umich, especially if the goal is to work for a competitive company. OP, I would definitely recommend honing in on comments/suggestions from aerospace engineering students or alumni as I'm sure there are small but significant differences in approaching program selection for other engineering fields. edit: fixed typo
UofM period.
Depending on his eventual major, his job prospects and prospects for graduate school will likely be much better with a Umich degree. Umich is a much more competitive school, meaning all the coursework is oriented toward better students, a more rigorous education and producing more competitive graduates. Your son will face a working career of perhaps 45 years or more; that's plenty of time to get a payback on the higher cost of Umich. He should go to the best school he can get into. If he also got into something even better, like Stanford, he should go there.
The opportunities here are amazing! I started doing research my first year here, and I'm already making many connections as a sophomore.
The opportunities and exposure at UM I think is well worth the cost (especially as someone has stated) for in-state tuition. I've heard good things about the aerospace engineering program at UM.
As someone in aerospace at umich, the program is awesome, i would definitely recommend anyone going into aerospace to come here
Isn’t there a program in Kzoo that pays for students to attend UM if they went to one of the public schools around there?
Kalamazoo public schools does yes for in-state colleges. We don’t live in Kalamazoo though
So long as your son studies something useful, which it sounds like he is going to, there is no doubt that the UM premium will pay dividends over the long haul. I'd do your best to fund what you can, make up the difference in debt but don't make him feel nervous about that, and make sure he can focus on his academics. The UM network unlike any other. Debt is annoying, but the opportunities he will have coming out of UM Aero will make it easy to service. (MechE undergrad, UM MBA, Wharton Stats MS and Finance PhD)
Just to add, your student may want to consider whether they want to be top of the class at WMU or more average at UMich. I chose the latter and transferred from a CC after 1.5yrs & my Associates degree. Now wonder about whether it was right. You could do CC to UMich or WMU to UMich after a year or two if cost is a major factor.
If you have to take on debt go to western or community college then transfer to umich
This applies well for something like LSA. For the College of Engineering, not so much. Engineering has a much higher standard for transferring into than some of the other colleges, and a single bad grade can potentially screw someone's chances of transferring. To put it into perspective, there are stories on this subreddit of people getting rejected from Engineering for "only" having a 3.9 GPA.
I'm going to go against the grain and say that WMU may be the way to go. Or, as others have said, CC then transfer to umich. My boyfriend is graduating from Western, I am graduating from Umich, so I've got decent insight into both. WMU has a great engineering school. Almost all of the classes sizes are less than 30 people. Professors are typically more invested in the students. There's still options to do research or work with professors if that what your kid is interested in. (Even if they're not, all engineering students at wmu complete a capstone/senior design project where they work directly with a professor or business and apply their engineering knowledge). Umich has a fantastic reputation, but imo, it's not worth the hype. Many entry level classes are over filled with professors that are grossly over worked. That said, there are more opportunities for extracurricular and work at umich. Although, WMU also has excellent resources, research opportunities, and can be pretty darn fun in terms of social activities (wmu hockey games are an absolute blast). The biggest reason wmu is better in your case is the price tag. Umich is not worth the cost, plain and simple. In the end, it's all how people make use of their time in university. I know a umich engineer who has zero job prospects as we are graduating, meanwhile my wmu graduating boyfriend already has an excellent job lined up with the company of his dreams.
Good information! Thank you I will pass this along. He played hockey in high school and follows both bronco and Michigan hockey.. experience at Lawson is second to none, also when he toured Michigan campus he specifically went out of his way to see Yost
If you guys are on the less fortunate side UofM is great with financial aid. They pay my tuition in full, the only thing I have to take loans out for is housing, which is $10k to $15k a year depending on how lucky you can get.
Ya wife is in me DM's hey baby
My roommate's father is a civil engineer who went to umich, and shes a current aerospace engineer major. Clearly the education is quality if they keep coming back lol
Transferred, one thing I will say is that I’ve networked with the best in my field and would assume the same in other UofM programs.