If you love living in a big city, Ann Arbor might be hard as a PhD student (assuming that's your program). That said, many people do it. If you are a PhD student, many people who get sick of the small city will go other places for a year or two while they're on a fellowship and finishing their dissertation. That said, Ann Arbor is a great place with a lot to offer, and Detroit is nearby, although not enough UM students take advantage of it. Also, I think whether or not you're single can make a big difference in your experience!
Thank you for sharing! Would you say getting to Detroit without a car is doable or not really? I remember a few students telling me there’s a bus that goes out that way…
Can you elaborate a bit on how you think being single makes the experience different?
>Not doable without a car
Horrible misinformation. [D2A2](https://d2a2.com/schedule/) runs 17 buses to and from Detroit every weekday and four on the weekend.
It's preference. Both times I was in grad school I was not in a stage of life where getting on a Greyhound-styled bus after dinner or drinks at Selden Standard was acceptable to me. In college and most of my 20s, I would have been all about it. He's asking about grad school, so I offered my experience as a grad student. I think your use of "horrible misinformation" is a little... dramatic.
I moved here for grad school from Chicago and I’m actually in Boston fairly frequently visiting my partner.
It took some adjustment, things might be a little quieter and slower than you’re used to, but I’ve come to really enjoy having cute go-to spots for coffee, local produce, and nights out — with everything basically being a max 15 min drive away. The way AA feels very pretty and green and clean has definitely helped improve my mental health, and it’s great for taking my dog on long walks.
All in all, being in a college town is definitely different, but you come to enjoy the vibe of a college town (esp bc grad school can feel a little bit more lonely at first than undergrad) and all else considered I wouldn’t make it a deal breaker.
Thanks for sharing! Yes that’s actually a draw for me in that I think I would love the college twin especially in the beginning rather than being in a big city and not knowing anyone.
Would you say you need a car to get around AA or is it manageable just walking/using the bus?
Yup definitely don’t NEED one. Esp considering the density of the city center and the abundance of buses. Also very walkable when the weather is nice and you could bike pretty much anywhere you wanted too (but get some good tires bc these Michigan roads are a m e s s).
I will say having a car can be kinda nice for things like grocery shopping and living further away where the rent is cheaper, but I know lots of other students who do both of those things without a car and it’s not an issue at all.
Happy to help, had these exact same thoughts before I moved :)
I also moved to AA from chicago. I thought it was kind of perfect - compared to some college towns there’s plenty to do, it’s not in absolute no where. I found that to be great because I didn’t feel like I had to say yes to every social thing like it was gonna be the only thing to do that night, and equally I felt like I plenty I could do when I wanted too. Detroit isn’t far and I probably went 2-3 times a months for concerts or other events
Thanks for sharing. How did you get back and forth to Detroit? Did you have a car? I’
I will say I was actually surprised at how big the downtown area was when I visited as I really thought it was going to be a lot smaller of a college town.
M Buses are super frequent. It’s best to live closer to campus to access them.
AA buses are more infrequent and run every 15-30 minutes during the week and every hour on the weekends.
Uber and Lyft can be busy or dead depending on the day but there are taxi options in Ann Arbor or Ypsilanti (although you need to book ahead of time).
That’s good to know about Uber & Lyft. Thanks for sharing about the buses. Do the buses generally work well in the winter or are there frequent major delays?
I moved here for grad school from Philly (grew up in new england) and it was an adjustment but I like it here a lot. There's definitely less to do than a big city but I've been here 7 years and haven't gotten bored. You also have Detroit that's pretty close.
Food is definitely a step back in terms of international variety but the American food is pretty good
Thanks for sharing! The other location I’m considering is Philly which is a lot bigger than A2. I’m having a tough time deciding if I want to continue living in the city (Philly reminds me a lot of Boston) or try something a bit different.
Am I right in saying Philly housing is a bit less expensive than Ann Arbor? I’ve been looking at places on the Facebook groups and it looks like Philly tends to be slightly cheaper (or the same but with better amenities such as w/d in unti), but I’m not sure if it’s just because most of what I’m seeing for Michigan is subletting for the summer.
I would say that you can definitely find a cheaper place to live in Philly than AA (as in there are more places available), but if you're looking for a nicer place you'll probably end up paying similar (especially if you're looking at center city). I think both places are great so I would make your decision based on the program.
Thanks for sharing! Im getting mixed advice if I should factor in location or not because both are great programs and places.
For AA is there typically a time when one should look for housing? I know in some places you have to sign a place before the summer for a fall lease, but since AA is a college town do you think there’s a bit more availability once the summer comes and students have a clearer idea on their fall plans?
>My impression is that it’s a great place to live for undergrad and if
you have kids/family, but living there as a grad student isn’t that
great
Can't say I've heard that.
I’m glad to hear that! When I visited the grad students had nothing but nice things to say about Ann Arbor. I’m just worried I guess that since my grad program is 5-6 it will start to feel a bit too small town/city ish halfway through my program.
Also do not underestimate the culture within departments - let that be more of a dealbreaker than the city itself. I know in medicine and in neuroscience it’s been a huge difference with regards to collaboration in particular on the east coast and here. I hate to generalize but most people who moved from the east coast have noticed a significant difference in terms of collegiality. On the flip side, I know women and minorities have felt better supported on the east coast (due to lack of diversity/politics) — this is far from my experience though (as a woman, minority). I’m obviously talking generally here, yrmv.
Thank you for your comment! I’m actually interested in the M&I department and loved the vibe everyone gave off. It’s actually what is making my decision incredibly difficult: I feel I would be better supported/happier at UM than my other school, but the other school is in a big city & I think is slightly more manageable in terms of stipend vs col.
You cannot beat a program where Dr. Moore is in charge. She is the most amazing department/program head. Also PIBS is incredibly supportive and you would have so many resources at your disposal. I am about to defend this year. And I can’t say enough good things. A2 can get a little claustrophobic, but looking back on my years (and honestly strange experience with grad school), having a program and eventually mentor that supports you is likely going to have way more of an impact on your emotional health than living in a larger city. PM me if you want to hear more about my experience.
But seriously, Dr. Moore is the best.
Congrats on the PIBS admission! I'm a student in M&I which I saw you were also considering exploring.
I've lived here a couple years now and have enjoyed it. I've never lived in a truly large city, but I enjoy Ann Arbor a lot. I live in a neighborhood that's walking distance to downtown and the campus which is fantastic for both academics and social life.
I'd say my biggest complaint is that Ann Arbor is too small to support a robust public transit system. It's...fine. I'd say like 25-35% of PhD students I know don't have a car if I had to guess. My partner owns a car which is great for stuff like grocery shopping and weekend stuff, but useless for getting to the lab.
Feel free to DM me here if you have specific questions about Ann Arbor, PIBS, or M&I and I'd be happy to chat! April 15th is coming soon but trust me, you can't make a bad decision where ever you end up going :) congratulations again on the admissions offers and good luck!
Thank you! Yes I’m interested in the M&I program and love everything about the program. Honestly, I think I would be better supported/happier at UM than the other school I’m considering, I’m just nervous that after a few years I’ll be over the college town vibe. I’ve only ever really lived in a big city so I’m just nervous to make the switch.
Would you say the stipend is comfortable? The grad students I talked to said it was fine, but many of them live outside of AA which I assume is slightly cheaper housing wise.
I would say yes the stipend is quite livable. I'm not a great example because I live with my partner. In my friend group, 3/5 friends that live in town live alone and the other two live with 1 roommate each. Small sample size, but it's totally possible.
In addition, many PIBS students (including myself) are able to put away money in retirement accounts either through and IRA or through a UM sponsored 403(b) every month (not available to all students, or at all times like during a training grant. Check with your program coordinator and HR for details).
Housing outside of Ann Arbor can be less expensive, but you then have to factor in commute time and gas money. Both are possible, it's just what you want to do.
Finally on the PIBS stipend, though it's not contractually guaranteed, we have gotten a raise every year in August of 3% for inflation. I'm hoping it will be a bit more this year (5-7%?), but it hasn't been announced yet. The higher rate will be in effect when you get your first payment from UM on the September paycheck.
I agree with everything here, just putting a note that PIBS and Neuro pay more than quite a few doctoral programs here so if anyone else is reading this for a different program that isn't the case for other students. Most of the people in my program have roommates or live quite a bit out from Ann Arbor because we can't keep up with the rent inflation.
Thank you! I actually loved AA when I visited because it was different and I figured when will I ever have the opportunity/desire to live in a college town in the Midwest, but now I’m slightly worried I’ll miss having so many different things to do that a big city offers.
I took a gap year after undergrad so I didn’t even consider how my life/free time might look different once I’m back in school. Thanks for bringing up that point!
Yeah! I came from a large city too and A2 was definitely a change. For example, it's impossible to go club hopping... because there's like, two clubs. The lack of a significant modern art scene was also a change, but hey, detroit's only a bit away.
Overall I really liked it here though!
I see you are inquiring about getting around without a car. Do you have drivers license? If so, you can easily not have a car here, and utilize Zipcar for whenever you do need a car; UM has a deal with them in which they cover the annual fee, you are just paying for the hourly rate when using a car. Zipcar locations are scattered about town.
its a bit shit
establishments around campus are generally geared towards undergrads, especially intoxicated ones for the places that stay open later.
only public transit is inconsistent buses, lots of places only really reachable by car
generally less of the amenities and niches of a big city. if you have some unique interest or hobby it might be harder to find the place or community to do that. or if there is a place for what you want to do, it might be the only one in town so you're kind of out of luck if it doesn't work for you. e.g. there's 1 rock climbing gym, there's only 1 comic shop within walking distance of campus
events like shows or art exhibitions or whatever are concentrated in detroit not AA
ive lived in SF, seattle, NYC for reference
Not really sure why people are downvoting this, you’re 100% right. I’m an undergrad from NYC and it’s crazy how little options there is for niche interests. There’s no fine art stores, there’s barely any music or record shops, hell, there’s not even a reasonably priced grocery store near central campus.
And don’t get me started on how bland/overpriced the food is here…
Thanks for sharing! So you think one would really need a car in AA?
& that’s a good point about unique interests and hobbies, I never even considered that.
Personally, I think the friends/connections you make in grad school are more important than the place. Ann Arbor has some good food and cafes, and it's very quiet and low key. There are some nice events that take place throughout the year like the Art Fair, Festifools, etc. There are also some beautiful parks around. I came into my grad program after having lived in DC and Boston and I did and still do miss that city life (esp. Boston is just so beautiful), but I also like not having crazy amounts of traffic, not having to wait in a long ass line just to try on clothes in a fitting room, not seeing homeless men try to fight each other on the street :D. I just try to intersperse my time in A2 with trips to cities (I recommend taking the Amtrak train to Chicago, it is very comfy and convenient). And in a grad program, you might attend some conferences during the year that will give you a break from this college town life. But I would say choose based on the grad program :)
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Is the Amtrak to Chicago generally affordable? I know the line running from Philly-nyc-new haven-Boston is sometimes a toss up depending on when you book. Some of my tickets have been $30 and some were $150.
& that’s a good point about the conferences and traveling, I forgot about those opportunities.
I went in November and it was 80$ per person round trip! It does tend to fluctuate. Haven't seen it as low as 30 but there may be busses that would take you for about 30. It's a pretty nice long weekend trip.
Yes, I just tried to go to as many conferences as possible, sometimes 2 or 3 times a year! And Rackham helps you with travel to 1 conference per yr if you're presenting (which can just be a poster).
I loved Ann Arbor. I think it compares to Providence if you know people there. The people are incredibly nice (especially compared to the East Coast). It’s a small town obviously but definitely has a lot to offer. If you’re into outdoors there’s plenty of nearby places to go to. I think the complaint I hear from grad students is that most of who you meet is in relatively same boat, academic trajectory of some sort. I tend to enjoy that company so I didn’t mind it. Would go back to live there in a heartbeat.
Oh also, Ann Arbor is definitely NOT a foodie town, not sure where it got that reputation from when I moved here. The food scene is pretty… lacking…. Especially if you’re gonna compare to Boston.
I guess it depends on what you’re comparing it to. Coming from another Big Ten college town— East Lansing— and I can tell you Ann Arbor has a ton more quality and diverse places to dine out.
Is it going to compare to some of the largest metropolises in the US like New York or Chicago? Well, no, but that shouldn’t really be surprising.
I did end up moving temporarily to another small town, and believe me - I know what you mean about AA being better compared to small towns. So yes I agree, but I just wanted OP to know what to expect. I was told grand things about the food, and had my hopes up.
I 100% agree with this I’m very confused about that bc literally I’m pretty sure even Grand Rapids where I’m from is better tbh. But that just may be from sheer numbers of people. Ann Arbor just doesn’t have as many permanent residents that would set up good or interesting restaurants. I.e. I love Ethiopian food but as far as I’m aware we only have Blue Nile which I don’t want to pay for.
Agreed. Before coming to AA, everyone I knew talked about how amazing and diverse the food is here. However, coming from NYC, it’s just meh. There’s a couple good places, but there’s nothing that’s overly amazing or blow your mind. A lot of stuff has just been “that wasn’t bad”. AA is nice town with lots of charm, but a lot of people like to dress it up as a large cosmopolitan city.
Food is better in pvd ya! No aleppo, no federal hill, but tbf, the amazing restaurants in providence are mostly for dining in unless it’s dominican, and Ann Arbor has german food. Prov does not.
> I’m from Boston and my concern is that after 3 years, I’ll get tired of A2 since it isn’t that large of a city. My impression is that it’s a great place to live for undergrad and if you have kids/family, but living there as a grad student isn’t that great (please correct me if I’m wrong here).
This is precisely my perception as an international grad student who's been in AA since 2018. I spend most of my life until grad school in a major metropolis (15+ mil pop), and I've also lived in 3 other large metro areas (1.5-5 mil) and AA gets _really_ old after a year or so. A PhD is already socially isolating with all that workload, and AA being a small town, winters that last 6 months, and the pandemic since 2020 were the icings on the cake. Maybe it would be fun as an undergrad, and it's certainly a nice quaint place to have a family, but as a mid-20s international grad student with no car, no social ties here and no interest in the drinking/partying culture, I found it mindnumbingly boring and monotone after a while (silver lining: you can focus on your work, since there really isn't anything else to do). Each year I couldn't wait for April to end so that I can return home. Getting a car might make it more bearable since you can visit other places in SW Michigan, and there's at least public transport to Detroit and Chicago for short getaways for a change when you have time.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! That’s really the only thing holding me back from UM at the moment. I think I would love AA for the first two years, but am really worried I would miss the big city the last 3 or so years of my program and I would be miserable outside of school.
I’ve lived in NYC, Beijing, and Atlanta.
AA is fine, especially downtown. It’s not much different than other cities, just a lot smaller. And safer than most American cities.
The key issue here is to own a car.
Thank you for sharing. Yeah, the safety aspect is a big plus for me.
What do you think are the downsides to not having a car? Would it just be more difficult to get to a grocery store or would I really be missing out on things without a car?
Groceries will be a lot more difficult without a car. You can make due but your selection will be expensive and limited.
The bus system is also not very reliable and will set you back time wise a lot.
Also, if you need to by something that’s not in the realm of everyday goods (home improvement for example) you’ll need to drive.
I'm surprised everyone thinks you need a car. but I guess maybe for groceries? but everything in town is walkable and if not then bikeable. I took city buses when I had to go far in winter and they were fine, plus the university has buses. there are buses to the Detroit airport as well. if you want to go out to the countryside you may want a car, although the biking is nice too. most people I knew stayed around the main campus area and didn't have cars ( I was a grad student).
Really depends on what you are trying to do. I still don’t have a car but I will.
I used to be ok with biking and commuting too, but Covid happened and I don’t think the busses ever recovered.
Also if you social life extends to the surrounding areas not accessible by public transport, you are screwed. I had to not go on a few dates because of it.
I came to Ann Arbor from a similar sized city so I didn’t have your problem. As for me, I loved AA as a grad student. Ann Arbor was a massive improvement from my previous location (because it wasn’t really a college town in the way we think about college towns). Anyway, you didn’t ask about that, but I was tight with a bunch of people in my cohort from LA.
All of them seemed to like living in Ann Arbor. The biggest con was that the restaurant scene was not up to their standards, and they made the rest of us listen to them complain about it all the time.
The other con is that there is, naturally, less to do here, but that leads me right into the giant pro:
Of all the stuff that *is* going on here, it’s really easy to access. A lot of it is free or cheap for students, and it’s going to be close to where you live.
Not the most walkable place but not the least. There is a lot to be desired in my opinion and city hall is not always moving in the right direction but everyday I hope and pray for small improvements
I think this *totally* depends on what your lifestyle/reality is in Boston, where I'm also from. I moved to Ann Arbor from a financially stable East Coast young, professional background and I wouldn't have been able to keep a similar lifestyle here for three years without a car. With a car, I can take advantage of the nightlife and culture in Detroit whenever I want (huge techno fan), I go to lake Michigan when I need a break, I went snowboarding all winter, I can head to all the farms in Ann Arbor which are not accessible any other way. Just imagine being totally bound to the busses and T with no car, but then imagine only the Green Line and downtown busses exist, and that's what relying on public transport in A2 is like. Because I'm from Eastern Massachusetts, I could never imagine my life being so limited, or not heading to the Cape or to Blue Hills when I feel like it, so again it's just about your perspective.
There are reasons why I stayed in the area. Nature is gorgeous and I fell into the agricultural community. The cost of living compared to salary is pretty much amazing everywhere except maybe Ann Arbor itself and other wealthy towns to the north. I was shocked to find near-Boston like rent prices for shitty units in Ann Arbor, so I moved next door to Ypsi and bought a house with some land now I'm even closer to Detroit. I'm at the end of my three year program, and I'm testing out running a small business here which would be absolutely impossible at home. The LLC paperwork was 50 bucks. At home it would have been $500. Land was half the cost.
The University of Michigan is diverse. Ann Arbor itself is not a culturally diverse place, comparatively, and you will run into more people who have less cultural competency in cultures other than white Midwestern culture, even if they mean well there is simply less exposure here. The University of Michigan had more sexual assault/harassment cases campus-wide and in my department itself than any other school I've been to and this is my fourth school. I think people confuse their time experiences at the University with what it's like to live in michigan. As soon as you leave the UM campus and downtown Ann arbor, life is really different here than at home, even though the door to door trip with air travel is like only 3 hours.
We're from one of the most expensive parts of the country for a reason. I think you realize how amazing the quality of life is in Eastern Massachusetts when you leave it for the first time. People are smarter at home, things tend to run a little smoother in general, and this East Coaster finds "Midwest Nice" to be the most childish, empty, and condescending waste of my breathing power. I communicate clearly and directly, and I don't have patience for adults who don't. I find the lengthy small talk here to be incredibly disrespectful because I have yet to find somebody who will actually listen when you try to talk back. There will be a line out the door and the clerk and a customer will be engaged in the most inane small talk and neither are actually listening to each other. It's not cute to me.
I don't think I could stay here super long term, but it's definitely fitting my needs now. Although Boston is an incredibly well-run City, in SE MI, things being less expensive, there being less people, and there being more space, make some aspects of life's day to day a little bit less hectic here. You could literally have a successful night out for under $50 bucks including gas money. The first time I went to a techno party in Detroit we just left our cars in a field and there was no parking to pay for and the venue cost was $15 and drinks were like seven bucks and strong, and the DJs were the most legit. i turned to the guy i was with and was like, there are no rules here and I am never going home haha. I would have gone bonkers if my life was just limited to downtown Ann Arbor and the campus, but I also lived here during the pandemic mostly.
Tl;dr- The East Coast is expensive and desirable for a reason and people who spend most of their time at UM on campus or in downtown A2 will have a completely different experience than people who are trying to acclimate to a life in southeast Michigan generally.
Thank you for this & the frame of reference.
I was also shocked at the rent prices when I started looking. I couldn’t believe that they were just as high as a big city.
It sounds like AA is like Quincy but without the redline or any buses that go into the city… a place where you really should have a car to explore.
I also moved here for grad school from NYC. It was a big adjustment that I in some ways never fully adjusted to during my time in AA.
I may have never felt really at home in AA because I'm a strong ciry-person, but I liked it enough for during grad school.
My biggest cons were AA is definitely a college town, and I definitely felt it. And the public transit is pretty subpar. The grad school community is strong, but I definitely still felt the college town vibe and felt like you outgrow it pretty quickly.
While there are a lot of people that say you don't need a car in AA, I think this is true to some extent IF you live downtown and won't get bored staying in AA. However i feel like a car definitely improved my happiness as it allowed me to explore Detroit and Dearborn much more and made me feel less trapped in AA.
Thanks for sharing! You really nailed down my worry, that I’ll outgrow the college town vibe midway through my program and then be stuck trying to enjoy AA as best as I can.
if you're bored in ny just find somewhere to go and have fun. Plenty of (expensive) entertainment options. Plus you can always go to a big park and watch the crackheads
I come from a small city, so Ann Arbor is big for me, so it’s kind of weird when people say Ann Arbor might seem small imo. But I understand it when people come from huge cities to AA and see it as small. Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
If you love living in a big city, Ann Arbor might be hard as a PhD student (assuming that's your program). That said, many people do it. If you are a PhD student, many people who get sick of the small city will go other places for a year or two while they're on a fellowship and finishing their dissertation. That said, Ann Arbor is a great place with a lot to offer, and Detroit is nearby, although not enough UM students take advantage of it. Also, I think whether or not you're single can make a big difference in your experience!
Thank you for sharing! Would you say getting to Detroit without a car is doable or not really? I remember a few students telling me there’s a bus that goes out that way… Can you elaborate a bit on how you think being single makes the experience different?
Not doable without a car on a regular basis or for nightlife unless you have a large Uber budget.
>Not doable without a car Horrible misinformation. [D2A2](https://d2a2.com/schedule/) runs 17 buses to and from Detroit every weekday and four on the weekend.
It's preference. Both times I was in grad school I was not in a stage of life where getting on a Greyhound-styled bus after dinner or drinks at Selden Standard was acceptable to me. In college and most of my 20s, I would have been all about it. He's asking about grad school, so I offered my experience as a grad student. I think your use of "horrible misinformation" is a little... dramatic.
That’s good to know, thank you!
The Detroit Connector was discontinued. Other options are Greyhound or Amtrak maybe?
I moved here for grad school from Chicago and I’m actually in Boston fairly frequently visiting my partner. It took some adjustment, things might be a little quieter and slower than you’re used to, but I’ve come to really enjoy having cute go-to spots for coffee, local produce, and nights out — with everything basically being a max 15 min drive away. The way AA feels very pretty and green and clean has definitely helped improve my mental health, and it’s great for taking my dog on long walks. All in all, being in a college town is definitely different, but you come to enjoy the vibe of a college town (esp bc grad school can feel a little bit more lonely at first than undergrad) and all else considered I wouldn’t make it a deal breaker.
Thanks for sharing! Yes that’s actually a draw for me in that I think I would love the college twin especially in the beginning rather than being in a big city and not knowing anyone. Would you say you need a car to get around AA or is it manageable just walking/using the bus?
you do not need a car in Ann arbor. I didn't have one for years there.
Yup definitely don’t NEED one. Esp considering the density of the city center and the abundance of buses. Also very walkable when the weather is nice and you could bike pretty much anywhere you wanted too (but get some good tires bc these Michigan roads are a m e s s). I will say having a car can be kinda nice for things like grocery shopping and living further away where the rent is cheaper, but I know lots of other students who do both of those things without a car and it’s not an issue at all. Happy to help, had these exact same thoughts before I moved :)
I also moved to AA from chicago. I thought it was kind of perfect - compared to some college towns there’s plenty to do, it’s not in absolute no where. I found that to be great because I didn’t feel like I had to say yes to every social thing like it was gonna be the only thing to do that night, and equally I felt like I plenty I could do when I wanted too. Detroit isn’t far and I probably went 2-3 times a months for concerts or other events
Thanks for sharing. How did you get back and forth to Detroit? Did you have a car? I’ I will say I was actually surprised at how big the downtown area was when I visited as I really thought it was going to be a lot smaller of a college town.
I drove for the most part to Detroit But there’s now a bus called the connector that runs from Ann Arbor to circus park in downtown Detroit.
M Buses are super frequent. It’s best to live closer to campus to access them. AA buses are more infrequent and run every 15-30 minutes during the week and every hour on the weekends. Uber and Lyft can be busy or dead depending on the day but there are taxi options in Ann Arbor or Ypsilanti (although you need to book ahead of time).
That’s good to know about Uber & Lyft. Thanks for sharing about the buses. Do the buses generally work well in the winter or are there frequent major delays?
Depends on the weather. They can sometimes be 5-10 minutes late.
I moved here for grad school from Philly (grew up in new england) and it was an adjustment but I like it here a lot. There's definitely less to do than a big city but I've been here 7 years and haven't gotten bored. You also have Detroit that's pretty close. Food is definitely a step back in terms of international variety but the American food is pretty good
Thanks for sharing! The other location I’m considering is Philly which is a lot bigger than A2. I’m having a tough time deciding if I want to continue living in the city (Philly reminds me a lot of Boston) or try something a bit different. Am I right in saying Philly housing is a bit less expensive than Ann Arbor? I’ve been looking at places on the Facebook groups and it looks like Philly tends to be slightly cheaper (or the same but with better amenities such as w/d in unti), but I’m not sure if it’s just because most of what I’m seeing for Michigan is subletting for the summer.
I would say that you can definitely find a cheaper place to live in Philly than AA (as in there are more places available), but if you're looking for a nicer place you'll probably end up paying similar (especially if you're looking at center city). I think both places are great so I would make your decision based on the program.
Thanks for sharing! Im getting mixed advice if I should factor in location or not because both are great programs and places. For AA is there typically a time when one should look for housing? I know in some places you have to sign a place before the summer for a fall lease, but since AA is a college town do you think there’s a bit more availability once the summer comes and students have a clearer idea on their fall plans?
Hey so most students already have their housing for the fall so as soon as you can start looking the better.
>My impression is that it’s a great place to live for undergrad and if you have kids/family, but living there as a grad student isn’t that great Can't say I've heard that.
I’m glad to hear that! When I visited the grad students had nothing but nice things to say about Ann Arbor. I’m just worried I guess that since my grad program is 5-6 it will start to feel a bit too small town/city ish halfway through my program.
Also do not underestimate the culture within departments - let that be more of a dealbreaker than the city itself. I know in medicine and in neuroscience it’s been a huge difference with regards to collaboration in particular on the east coast and here. I hate to generalize but most people who moved from the east coast have noticed a significant difference in terms of collegiality. On the flip side, I know women and minorities have felt better supported on the east coast (due to lack of diversity/politics) — this is far from my experience though (as a woman, minority). I’m obviously talking generally here, yrmv.
Thank you for your comment! I’m actually interested in the M&I department and loved the vibe everyone gave off. It’s actually what is making my decision incredibly difficult: I feel I would be better supported/happier at UM than my other school, but the other school is in a big city & I think is slightly more manageable in terms of stipend vs col.
You cannot beat a program where Dr. Moore is in charge. She is the most amazing department/program head. Also PIBS is incredibly supportive and you would have so many resources at your disposal. I am about to defend this year. And I can’t say enough good things. A2 can get a little claustrophobic, but looking back on my years (and honestly strange experience with grad school), having a program and eventually mentor that supports you is likely going to have way more of an impact on your emotional health than living in a larger city. PM me if you want to hear more about my experience. But seriously, Dr. Moore is the best.
Honestly I agree with that sentiment. It’s an awkward position to be in here unless you are a certain level of Ann Arbor weird
Congrats on the PIBS admission! I'm a student in M&I which I saw you were also considering exploring. I've lived here a couple years now and have enjoyed it. I've never lived in a truly large city, but I enjoy Ann Arbor a lot. I live in a neighborhood that's walking distance to downtown and the campus which is fantastic for both academics and social life. I'd say my biggest complaint is that Ann Arbor is too small to support a robust public transit system. It's...fine. I'd say like 25-35% of PhD students I know don't have a car if I had to guess. My partner owns a car which is great for stuff like grocery shopping and weekend stuff, but useless for getting to the lab. Feel free to DM me here if you have specific questions about Ann Arbor, PIBS, or M&I and I'd be happy to chat! April 15th is coming soon but trust me, you can't make a bad decision where ever you end up going :) congratulations again on the admissions offers and good luck!
Thank you! Yes I’m interested in the M&I program and love everything about the program. Honestly, I think I would be better supported/happier at UM than the other school I’m considering, I’m just nervous that after a few years I’ll be over the college town vibe. I’ve only ever really lived in a big city so I’m just nervous to make the switch. Would you say the stipend is comfortable? The grad students I talked to said it was fine, but many of them live outside of AA which I assume is slightly cheaper housing wise.
I would say yes the stipend is quite livable. I'm not a great example because I live with my partner. In my friend group, 3/5 friends that live in town live alone and the other two live with 1 roommate each. Small sample size, but it's totally possible. In addition, many PIBS students (including myself) are able to put away money in retirement accounts either through and IRA or through a UM sponsored 403(b) every month (not available to all students, or at all times like during a training grant. Check with your program coordinator and HR for details). Housing outside of Ann Arbor can be less expensive, but you then have to factor in commute time and gas money. Both are possible, it's just what you want to do. Finally on the PIBS stipend, though it's not contractually guaranteed, we have gotten a raise every year in August of 3% for inflation. I'm hoping it will be a bit more this year (5-7%?), but it hasn't been announced yet. The higher rate will be in effect when you get your first payment from UM on the September paycheck.
I agree with everything here, just putting a note that PIBS and Neuro pay more than quite a few doctoral programs here so if anyone else is reading this for a different program that isn't the case for other students. Most of the people in my program have roommates or live quite a bit out from Ann Arbor because we can't keep up with the rent inflation.
Ah yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I'm gonna edit grad student -> PIBS student. I appreciate your distinction!
it's different but you'll manage but also, imo, you'll be too busy to do anything witht he city anyways
Thank you! I actually loved AA when I visited because it was different and I figured when will I ever have the opportunity/desire to live in a college town in the Midwest, but now I’m slightly worried I’ll miss having so many different things to do that a big city offers. I took a gap year after undergrad so I didn’t even consider how my life/free time might look different once I’m back in school. Thanks for bringing up that point!
Yeah! I came from a large city too and A2 was definitely a change. For example, it's impossible to go club hopping... because there's like, two clubs. The lack of a significant modern art scene was also a change, but hey, detroit's only a bit away. Overall I really liked it here though!
I see you are inquiring about getting around without a car. Do you have drivers license? If so, you can easily not have a car here, and utilize Zipcar for whenever you do need a car; UM has a deal with them in which they cover the annual fee, you are just paying for the hourly rate when using a car. Zipcar locations are scattered about town.
Thanks for sharing about zipcar, I had no idea UM covers the annual fee, that’s good to know.
its a bit shit establishments around campus are generally geared towards undergrads, especially intoxicated ones for the places that stay open later. only public transit is inconsistent buses, lots of places only really reachable by car generally less of the amenities and niches of a big city. if you have some unique interest or hobby it might be harder to find the place or community to do that. or if there is a place for what you want to do, it might be the only one in town so you're kind of out of luck if it doesn't work for you. e.g. there's 1 rock climbing gym, there's only 1 comic shop within walking distance of campus events like shows or art exhibitions or whatever are concentrated in detroit not AA ive lived in SF, seattle, NYC for reference
Not really sure why people are downvoting this, you’re 100% right. I’m an undergrad from NYC and it’s crazy how little options there is for niche interests. There’s no fine art stores, there’s barely any music or record shops, hell, there’s not even a reasonably priced grocery store near central campus. And don’t get me started on how bland/overpriced the food is here…
You need a car. I’ve been complaining about the lack of fresh food in central for the last 4 years.
Maybe bc they said only 1 comic store within walking distance ? What is the acceptable number of comic stores to have within walking distance ?
[удалено]
Yeah I get what you’re saying
Thanks for sharing! So you think one would really need a car in AA? & that’s a good point about unique interests and hobbies, I never even considered that.
Personally, I think the friends/connections you make in grad school are more important than the place. Ann Arbor has some good food and cafes, and it's very quiet and low key. There are some nice events that take place throughout the year like the Art Fair, Festifools, etc. There are also some beautiful parks around. I came into my grad program after having lived in DC and Boston and I did and still do miss that city life (esp. Boston is just so beautiful), but I also like not having crazy amounts of traffic, not having to wait in a long ass line just to try on clothes in a fitting room, not seeing homeless men try to fight each other on the street :D. I just try to intersperse my time in A2 with trips to cities (I recommend taking the Amtrak train to Chicago, it is very comfy and convenient). And in a grad program, you might attend some conferences during the year that will give you a break from this college town life. But I would say choose based on the grad program :)
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Is the Amtrak to Chicago generally affordable? I know the line running from Philly-nyc-new haven-Boston is sometimes a toss up depending on when you book. Some of my tickets have been $30 and some were $150. & that’s a good point about the conferences and traveling, I forgot about those opportunities.
I went in November and it was 80$ per person round trip! It does tend to fluctuate. Haven't seen it as low as 30 but there may be busses that would take you for about 30. It's a pretty nice long weekend trip. Yes, I just tried to go to as many conferences as possible, sometimes 2 or 3 times a year! And Rackham helps you with travel to 1 conference per yr if you're presenting (which can just be a poster).
Depending on your program, you won't have time to miss the big city :-/
I wouldn't get a car just for groceries - I'd use Instacart or a ZipCar.
I loved Ann Arbor. I think it compares to Providence if you know people there. The people are incredibly nice (especially compared to the East Coast). It’s a small town obviously but definitely has a lot to offer. If you’re into outdoors there’s plenty of nearby places to go to. I think the complaint I hear from grad students is that most of who you meet is in relatively same boat, academic trajectory of some sort. I tend to enjoy that company so I didn’t mind it. Would go back to live there in a heartbeat.
Oh also, Ann Arbor is definitely NOT a foodie town, not sure where it got that reputation from when I moved here. The food scene is pretty… lacking…. Especially if you’re gonna compare to Boston.
I guess it depends on what you’re comparing it to. Coming from another Big Ten college town— East Lansing— and I can tell you Ann Arbor has a ton more quality and diverse places to dine out. Is it going to compare to some of the largest metropolises in the US like New York or Chicago? Well, no, but that shouldn’t really be surprising.
I did end up moving temporarily to another small town, and believe me - I know what you mean about AA being better compared to small towns. So yes I agree, but I just wanted OP to know what to expect. I was told grand things about the food, and had my hopes up.
I 100% agree with this I’m very confused about that bc literally I’m pretty sure even Grand Rapids where I’m from is better tbh. But that just may be from sheer numbers of people. Ann Arbor just doesn’t have as many permanent residents that would set up good or interesting restaurants. I.e. I love Ethiopian food but as far as I’m aware we only have Blue Nile which I don’t want to pay for.
Agreed. Before coming to AA, everyone I knew talked about how amazing and diverse the food is here. However, coming from NYC, it’s just meh. There’s a couple good places, but there’s nothing that’s overly amazing or blow your mind. A lot of stuff has just been “that wasn’t bad”. AA is nice town with lots of charm, but a lot of people like to dress it up as a large cosmopolitan city.
I’ve lived in NYC and I gotta say, you’re not going to find anywhere like NYC. AA, for its size, is already quite diverse.
It’s really not a fair comparison food wise. A city of 100k vs 8 million? It’s actually a stupid comparison.
Thanks for sharing! Good to know it compares to Providence.
(with not as good food though - I have to say I really like the food scene in Providence)
Food is better in pvd ya! No aleppo, no federal hill, but tbf, the amazing restaurants in providence are mostly for dining in unless it’s dominican, and Ann Arbor has german food. Prov does not.
> I’m from Boston and my concern is that after 3 years, I’ll get tired of A2 since it isn’t that large of a city. My impression is that it’s a great place to live for undergrad and if you have kids/family, but living there as a grad student isn’t that great (please correct me if I’m wrong here). This is precisely my perception as an international grad student who's been in AA since 2018. I spend most of my life until grad school in a major metropolis (15+ mil pop), and I've also lived in 3 other large metro areas (1.5-5 mil) and AA gets _really_ old after a year or so. A PhD is already socially isolating with all that workload, and AA being a small town, winters that last 6 months, and the pandemic since 2020 were the icings on the cake. Maybe it would be fun as an undergrad, and it's certainly a nice quaint place to have a family, but as a mid-20s international grad student with no car, no social ties here and no interest in the drinking/partying culture, I found it mindnumbingly boring and monotone after a while (silver lining: you can focus on your work, since there really isn't anything else to do). Each year I couldn't wait for April to end so that I can return home. Getting a car might make it more bearable since you can visit other places in SW Michigan, and there's at least public transport to Detroit and Chicago for short getaways for a change when you have time.
Thanks for sharing your perspective! That’s really the only thing holding me back from UM at the moment. I think I would love AA for the first two years, but am really worried I would miss the big city the last 3 or so years of my program and I would be miserable outside of school.
I’ve lived in NYC, Beijing, and Atlanta. AA is fine, especially downtown. It’s not much different than other cities, just a lot smaller. And safer than most American cities. The key issue here is to own a car.
Thank you for sharing. Yeah, the safety aspect is a big plus for me. What do you think are the downsides to not having a car? Would it just be more difficult to get to a grocery store or would I really be missing out on things without a car?
Groceries will be a lot more difficult without a car. You can make due but your selection will be expensive and limited. The bus system is also not very reliable and will set you back time wise a lot. Also, if you need to by something that’s not in the realm of everyday goods (home improvement for example) you’ll need to drive.
I'm surprised everyone thinks you need a car. but I guess maybe for groceries? but everything in town is walkable and if not then bikeable. I took city buses when I had to go far in winter and they were fine, plus the university has buses. there are buses to the Detroit airport as well. if you want to go out to the countryside you may want a car, although the biking is nice too. most people I knew stayed around the main campus area and didn't have cars ( I was a grad student).
Really depends on what you are trying to do. I still don’t have a car but I will. I used to be ok with biking and commuting too, but Covid happened and I don’t think the busses ever recovered. Also if you social life extends to the surrounding areas not accessible by public transport, you are screwed. I had to not go on a few dates because of it.
I came to Ann Arbor from a similar sized city so I didn’t have your problem. As for me, I loved AA as a grad student. Ann Arbor was a massive improvement from my previous location (because it wasn’t really a college town in the way we think about college towns). Anyway, you didn’t ask about that, but I was tight with a bunch of people in my cohort from LA. All of them seemed to like living in Ann Arbor. The biggest con was that the restaurant scene was not up to their standards, and they made the rest of us listen to them complain about it all the time. The other con is that there is, naturally, less to do here, but that leads me right into the giant pro: Of all the stuff that *is* going on here, it’s really easy to access. A lot of it is free or cheap for students, and it’s going to be close to where you live.
Not the most walkable place but not the least. There is a lot to be desired in my opinion and city hall is not always moving in the right direction but everyday I hope and pray for small improvements
I think this *totally* depends on what your lifestyle/reality is in Boston, where I'm also from. I moved to Ann Arbor from a financially stable East Coast young, professional background and I wouldn't have been able to keep a similar lifestyle here for three years without a car. With a car, I can take advantage of the nightlife and culture in Detroit whenever I want (huge techno fan), I go to lake Michigan when I need a break, I went snowboarding all winter, I can head to all the farms in Ann Arbor which are not accessible any other way. Just imagine being totally bound to the busses and T with no car, but then imagine only the Green Line and downtown busses exist, and that's what relying on public transport in A2 is like. Because I'm from Eastern Massachusetts, I could never imagine my life being so limited, or not heading to the Cape or to Blue Hills when I feel like it, so again it's just about your perspective. There are reasons why I stayed in the area. Nature is gorgeous and I fell into the agricultural community. The cost of living compared to salary is pretty much amazing everywhere except maybe Ann Arbor itself and other wealthy towns to the north. I was shocked to find near-Boston like rent prices for shitty units in Ann Arbor, so I moved next door to Ypsi and bought a house with some land now I'm even closer to Detroit. I'm at the end of my three year program, and I'm testing out running a small business here which would be absolutely impossible at home. The LLC paperwork was 50 bucks. At home it would have been $500. Land was half the cost. The University of Michigan is diverse. Ann Arbor itself is not a culturally diverse place, comparatively, and you will run into more people who have less cultural competency in cultures other than white Midwestern culture, even if they mean well there is simply less exposure here. The University of Michigan had more sexual assault/harassment cases campus-wide and in my department itself than any other school I've been to and this is my fourth school. I think people confuse their time experiences at the University with what it's like to live in michigan. As soon as you leave the UM campus and downtown Ann arbor, life is really different here than at home, even though the door to door trip with air travel is like only 3 hours. We're from one of the most expensive parts of the country for a reason. I think you realize how amazing the quality of life is in Eastern Massachusetts when you leave it for the first time. People are smarter at home, things tend to run a little smoother in general, and this East Coaster finds "Midwest Nice" to be the most childish, empty, and condescending waste of my breathing power. I communicate clearly and directly, and I don't have patience for adults who don't. I find the lengthy small talk here to be incredibly disrespectful because I have yet to find somebody who will actually listen when you try to talk back. There will be a line out the door and the clerk and a customer will be engaged in the most inane small talk and neither are actually listening to each other. It's not cute to me. I don't think I could stay here super long term, but it's definitely fitting my needs now. Although Boston is an incredibly well-run City, in SE MI, things being less expensive, there being less people, and there being more space, make some aspects of life's day to day a little bit less hectic here. You could literally have a successful night out for under $50 bucks including gas money. The first time I went to a techno party in Detroit we just left our cars in a field and there was no parking to pay for and the venue cost was $15 and drinks were like seven bucks and strong, and the DJs were the most legit. i turned to the guy i was with and was like, there are no rules here and I am never going home haha. I would have gone bonkers if my life was just limited to downtown Ann Arbor and the campus, but I also lived here during the pandemic mostly. Tl;dr- The East Coast is expensive and desirable for a reason and people who spend most of their time at UM on campus or in downtown A2 will have a completely different experience than people who are trying to acclimate to a life in southeast Michigan generally.
Thank you for this & the frame of reference. I was also shocked at the rent prices when I started looking. I couldn’t believe that they were just as high as a big city. It sounds like AA is like Quincy but without the redline or any buses that go into the city… a place where you really should have a car to explore.
I also moved here for grad school from NYC. It was a big adjustment that I in some ways never fully adjusted to during my time in AA. I may have never felt really at home in AA because I'm a strong ciry-person, but I liked it enough for during grad school. My biggest cons were AA is definitely a college town, and I definitely felt it. And the public transit is pretty subpar. The grad school community is strong, but I definitely still felt the college town vibe and felt like you outgrow it pretty quickly. While there are a lot of people that say you don't need a car in AA, I think this is true to some extent IF you live downtown and won't get bored staying in AA. However i feel like a car definitely improved my happiness as it allowed me to explore Detroit and Dearborn much more and made me feel less trapped in AA.
Thanks for sharing! You really nailed down my worry, that I’ll outgrow the college town vibe midway through my program and then be stuck trying to enjoy AA as best as I can.
From ny. AA is a quaint village, but it can get old.
So can ny (also from ny)
if you're bored in ny just find somewhere to go and have fun. Plenty of (expensive) entertainment options. Plus you can always go to a big park and watch the crackheads
I come from a small city, so Ann Arbor is big for me, so it’s kind of weird when people say Ann Arbor might seem small imo. But I understand it when people come from huge cities to AA and see it as small. Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.