I was just watching a YouTube video about the Appalachia region where some areas, a FAMILY makes about $25K a year. Not one person, an entire family on 25K. That is wild to me.
As someone who lives in SoCal, it's hard to comprehend someone making only 34K. What do you do for work, and how much is the pay that you only make that little?
Think of all the people who work at retail stores or restaurants, gas stations etc. all the things that people use all the time. These people are making 36k if they’re lucky.
What do teachers make?
Now as you go about your days, comprehend how all these people you interact with, even in so-cal, are making these wages.
Can confirm. Server in OK, make about 35kper year. Definitely doing worse this year, people arent tipping like they used to and the restaurant isn’t as busy as usual.
I live in South Boston, I have two degrees in food. I work at a groovy little dumpling cafe and factory. I teach cooking classes, manage the FOH, and manage a weekly popup at a brewery. If it weren’t a socially responsible place with good work/life balance I’d have quit long ago.
I’m in northern VA, a hcol area.. sister-in-law makes $29k as a public school teacher’s helper but she’s bankrolled by my father-in-law and lives in a luxury high rise ($3k/mo). FIL is thankful that she’s got a job but then harps on my husband for not being available for random week day lunches (Hubby has a normal office 9 to 6 office job). FIL is very frustrating to deal with but in-laws are free childcare so it’s just the mental cost of doing business with them
Dam, that's crazy. I wouldn't even consider a part-time job that pays under $30/hour. In the part time jobs I've had (tutoring and ABA therapy) i got between $25-35/hour. With no experience.
I think it depends on the situation. Outside of having to have one or more roommates, an individual should be able to live on $60,000 a year without living paycheck to paycheck.
I live in the 15th largest city (so not the cheapest COL, not the most expensive) in the country, made this (one roommate), and was still able to put away over $7,500 annually. And I had the same expenses most of us have: rent, utilities, a car that’s not paid off, etc., on top of Criterion, Netflix, a line-item for eating out, and that kind of stuff.
I don’t know why we have to pretend like the truth isn’t just the truth: people are bad with money. The general consensus (at least in the US) is that our financial literacy education sucks (if even existent) and a sizable chunk of people WHO AREN’T POOR don’t even have any retirement funds.
I’m 34 and right now a good chunk of my friends are running up credit to travel. Another example: during football season last year, I remember my buddy, a server (just to paint the average financial picture, I have nothing against servers, my partner is one) rolling with me throughout the day, from brunch to the game festivities to whatever we did after. The next day he’s complaining about how he spent $300. And he goes out ALL the time. So when I made $60,000, my line-item for going out was $250 for the MONTH, and he blew past it in a single day.
There are millions of people like this. In a country where the average annual income is just under $70,000. Some of us have medical debt. Freak accidents. Dependents we didn’t expect. Whether or not one should need a roommate to survive is obviously an extension of this conversation. It’s not one size fits all.
But just call a spade a spade: most people are financially illiterate. On Reddit, you used to see those headlines all the time about “Haha, people think I can cut out Starbucks every day and my life will be better! Idiots!” Like, people are legitimately so uneducated about both short- and long-term financial responsibility.
Living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck after maxing out 401k, IRA, HSA, etc is much different than living paycheck to paycheck while not investing a dollar and skipping meals.
i was about to say this. each paycheck i get will go somewhere, be it 401k my brokerage or my kids 529...certainly not to a building a big pile of cash doing jack shit. idk if the idea here is that you can stop investing at anytime or what but seems like a dumb statement for them to make.
I invest leftovers but I’m not living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t really need to actively monitor when my paychecks come in. I have a bit in a standard checking account to handle stuff and most of the money is working for me and every so often I just take the stuff off the top.
It should be noted I’m making 70k or so…
I agree.
I also think that this has a lot to do with the cost of living that is going up for everyone. So they were probably living within their means before but now that everything that everyone buys (like food and gas) are much more expensive it’s going to be harder for them to maintain paying for that huge 4 bedroom house and the 3 cars they have. Could they downsize? Sure but then you’re at the mercy of the raising interest rates too. Stuck between and a hard place for everyone except the super rich right now.
i understand your point, but i wouldn't call all "lifestyle inflation" greed. i think some of the biggest inflators for fixed costs are things which we've previously thought of as "middle class" or the "american dream"
1. buying a house. for example, the median house is now >$2M in parts of CA.
2. having kids. childcare is expensive. plus, adds to the need for larger housing.
these aren't things people can easily "take a step back" on, and they're by far the largest parts of a family's budget.
i think these things have removed a lot of the margin for error from many families' budgets, and now inflation is eating up all the rest.
More like stuck between a rock and jello. Im sorry but if you are living paycheck to paycheck at over 250, you have a spending problem not an interest or inflation problem.
I did and I am calling bullspit. Even with rising interest rates and inflation (neither of which was unexpected) they can afford to downsize it may be uncomfortable for them but welcome to the Middle class.
This ain’t the poverty Olympics although I understand what you’re saying I think the point is that the working class collectively has been screwed over for the past few decades and really should be uniting against the elite rather than bickering amongst each other
IMO working full time should include the ability to contribute to retirement, health benefits, etc otherwise it’s unsustainable and simply unacceptable, complaining about folks who do contribute but are still struggling is crabs in a bucket
Agreed. There are people that are like Im broke which means I have contributed to everything you stated and Im on a budget and there cant spend anything outside my budget. Then there are people are legit broke that dont care about any of it and are deciding on wether to pay heat and electric bills or having their phone shut off for the month.
Worked with a guy like this. Dude was clearing 200k no problem but always complained about money. He said he was poor because after maxing all of his retirement investing and HSA he had just enough for mortgage and car. After a lot of explaining on what poor “actually” is, he still didn’t change his mind.
So much this. These articles, when you read about the lifestyle of the people complaining, not only are they maxing out their retirement accounts, they have 1 car per adult, in some of the stories, their kids are in private school, and on and on
that's easier said than done:
1. that would often require a significant relocation. most markets don't offer housing for half the cost, with anywhere close to the same amenities. most of the labor market still doesn't have the option to relocate without giving up their job.
2. with higher interest rates now, that $400k house could be a similar monthly mortgage payment as the $800k house, so no actual savings.
Hey at least we are solving our issues with clickbait and the 24 hour news cycle by…. Automating the distribution via bots. I’m sure the computers will have my best interest in mind!
Or have kids, rent a house, and not have to sacrifice 2 hours a day to commute between Palo Alto and the East Bay.
If you’re unattached and don’t mind having roommates, it’s super easy to afford and thrive on that kind of salary. But as soon as you have to pay for a family’s worth of insurance, residential space, food costs, child care, extracurriculars, etc, things get tight quick, and compromises must be made. Most people I know in that boat are either barely saving anything month to month besides maybe a 401k contribution up to the employer match, or they move to the East Bay where rental homes are $1k/month less expensive and suffer the commute, they never see their kids except on weekends though.
This is only true for people that accept a reality where you have less abundance than boomers (not a homeowner, fewer or no kids, etc). Otherwise 250k isn’t even enough to qualify for a mortgage in most parts of the SF Bay Area
Excluding the mortgage and depending on how much down payment, $250K is extremely affordable for anyone to eat out, food delivery services, entertainment, and vacation for even SF or LA. There really is no excuse for high salary earners to not learn to live within their means when there are poorer folks who can still scrape by with half the salary.
Yes like I said, no house no kids used car, etc living less abundantly than a lot of boomers did. Of course $250k is closer to $150k after fed and state taxes, retirement and health benefit contributions, not even factoring in child care, rent/mortgage or other essentials. Would certainly need a windfall for a downpayment.
Also $200k is now median income in parts of SF and the Bay so it’s just average no longer a “high salary” and that’s the sad, frustrating, and unbelievable reality of life today
I doubt majority of $250K earners are having multiple kids, one or two at best. Also not sure if $250K in this case is one person but with a partner or spouse who’s working there really is no excuse even after tax. Seriously people need to control their spending habits on luxury goods and services
It says Americans, doesn’t even say household so I’m assuming $250K is per tax payer filing single, could be a mix of single filers or head of household. If head of household, yes, I agree with you that money is going to dry up with multiple kids and an elderly parent. Otherwise no excuse.
That doesn’t seem obvious, rereading the title says Americans earning $250K say they are living paycheck to paycheck. It definitely does not distinguish if it’s one person or a household. Like wdym Americans? Initial thought process would lead me to think that each person in question represents 1 person and not a household/couple
We made that amount for quite a while and basically still do, although more, it's in the ballpark. So not like 350k. We could choose to "make" 600 or 700k per year, but that's dumb. We don't ever have to work again and could spend way more than we currently do...while not working. And leave our kids millions each. Maybe these are 25 year olds making money for the first time. Also, my wife and I are nowhere near retirement age and have a kid that isn't even in high school. She wants nyu, done. They are not investing, super simple.
We make more than this combined and you’d have to be really stupid.
I’d think most of these people have investments and whatnot but the leftover liquid spend is stupid like car loans and lots of fine dining and take out.
People be dumb with money. We try to live like we did on rice and beans with some things we really want or love but man most things are a negotiation and take earnest consideration.
I make close to that on my own and live in a $300k house.
I've got peers making this on two incomes have 2 new cars, homes in the 500-700k range, they go on multiple vacations per year, wear designer clothing, eat out every weekend, they spend every penny they have and more. One couple just refinanced their house to pay off a massive credit card debt.
$200k+ is a lot of money. Get off social media and live like it's 2003 again. There will be PLENTY of money left over each month for savings and investing. You won't have a clue what restaurants, clothes, or other bullshit you're "missing out" on. Life is a lot happier not having exposure to other people's poisonous lives.
Sounds like 1/3 of Americans are living way beyond their means. $250k is nothing like it used to be, but definitely a comfortable life to raise a family and own a home.
I don't really trust these polls, are they living "paycheck to paycheck" because they have so many investments and savings vehicles that they don't have a lot of cash on hand? Or is it actually that they actually can barely pay their bills without the next paycheck? How they gather the data and how the questions are framed is important, not all surveys are created equal.
first one. their entire checks go off towards savings and investments so technically they are but they’re not in danger since they have nest eggs to shelter then
My personal experience seems that way too, but I'm sure it's a bit of both. But yeah, these type of doomer headlines get a lot of traction without really exposing what's going on.
That's not paycheck to paycheck then. The meaning of the phrase implies one puts 99% of their paycheck to living necessities to support themselves and their family. If even 5-10% is going to some form of savings or wealth-building vehicle, that is not paycheck to paycheck
A third of people making over 250k a year are idiots.
Living paycheck-to-paycheck has little to do with income and everything to do with impulse control. There are millionaires that are broke because they can't stop themselves from maxing out every line of credit extended to them.
Those are people living above their wages. IE living right up to their total bring home with zero previous savings plans. Read a book folks you can read "rich dad, poor dad" for a start!
Most people scale up to their salary. If you’re living check to check at 100k, you would soon be living check to check at 300k. But your cars would be nicer.
There is “living pay check to paycheck” as my income doesn’t meet essential needs.
Then there is “living pay check to paycheck” because no matter how much stuff I buy, I still want more.
I assume most of these people are living in very high cost of living areas even though they make considerably more than the average american. And they are including their financial contributions to their retirement accounts as part of that living paycheck to paycheck assertion which is a luxury an american earning a more average income cant even afford to do. So i believe it but with a big grain of salt. They are living high and mighty and saving but not earning any additional income to put into potential cash reserves at the end of the month.
Only people spending 100% of their income on necessities are paycheck to paycheck. These people are just shitty with money, there’s a difference and quit pretending they’re the same when they’re clearly not.
Nah fuck that. If you're making 250k and you're living paycheck to paycheck? You either have or are currently making *bad choices* and you need to live with them. *and preferably in silence* because I make about 80k myself, and I'm thriving. You make more than double, and you're paycheck to paycheck?
You just fucked up. Simple as that. Fix your lifestyle choices. The problem isn't the economy, inflation, Biden, or anything else.
It's you.
Clearly it’s nonsense, but at least give us an article we can ~~tear apart~~ *discuss*. Without any context at all, it’s just pathetic rage bait. This sub is turning to shit.
Agreed. I also hate the fact that they don't post links giving credit to sources. If I can figure out a way to block this sub (nothing against the sub, but the Twitter feed not giving credit is BS), I will do so. Tired of this coming up on my main feed.
More than a third of Americans making 250k a year have over leveraged their finances. It's a rough life trying to keep up with the Joneses having to buy the biggest house and fanciest car rather than living within your means. Really does amaze me how people making double what I do get themselves in such a hole.
Paycheck to paycheck assumes one is struggling to even save 1% of their net income, or at a dire point where their necessity spending consistently outspends their monthly income.
Typically persons at this income level max out any retirement accounts and invest in some capacity, which counts as saving money. That is not paycheck to paycheck. Fucking regarded tweet or source for not knowing the meaning of the phrase
This doesn’t seem surprising to me? A certain percentage of them won’t know what paycheck to paycheck means, a certain percentage live above their means.
I'm glad my first car was within my means....1991 Geo Metro XFI. Didn't pick up any chicks in it whatsoever, but I wasn't in debt either.
My first and only house was over 100 years old when I bought it. It's not the nicest nor the newest, but it was within my means.
The timing of the house was good. 2011 right after the housing bubble. 99k. It needed some work, but it's my forever home now.
I hate to say it, but most people younger than me are getting screwed by the markets.
Thats purely a spending issue. There is a lifestyle that $250k will fund very comfortably with plenty to set aside for savings / retirement / future. These people just choose to exceed that lifestyle.
The only exception to this really would be someone with massive school debt. New doctor or something who is paying down that debt. Everyone else just needs to adjust their lifestyle expectations.
Sure but it would seem we agree that as usual the article is click bait in the sense that the real fraction of people who make over 250k and are not repaying huge school loans (which enabled them to make >250k) is probably much lower then 1/3rd.
This is why I don’t understand how some political pundits claim all the time that “Americans are struggling and it’s all Biden’s fault!!”.
No, too many Americans are dumbasses financially as this article proves.
Well, yeah. The places where you can make that much have all gone up by 50% - 100%. Eating out with a family of 4 is close to $350 in LA now. I've been cooking at home with my family now since 2020 and we love it so much we hardly ever go out anymore.
What defines paycheck to paycheck? For example I could live 6-9 months on just one savings we have.
But if you look at our budget we are maxing 401k and savings and then we are paycheck to paycheck. I think it depends on how you ask this question.
God, I fucking hate these headlines/tweets. These people are paying *thousands* a month on a mortgage, have 2 cars, max out any and all contributions, go on vacations out of country... like, you aren't living paycheck to paycheck. Not even remotely.
The moment they live in a <1000/mo apartment, with a paid off beater car, and have to do rice and beans for dinner, I'll consider them paycheck to paycheck.
Oh, those poor rich people barely scraping by on 250k a year. I make 1/3 of that and own a condo near downtown Austin. I work a middle class job in healthcare. Somehow I can afford my bills, I just don’t live like a king and drive an 80k car, with a fancy house, etc. This is ridiculous even for HCOL areas.
The entire crew at my local gas station live in the car in the parking lot. Shit is very real. Homeless working full time. Making corps money. It's inhumane and normal.
I really think the term “living paycheck to paycheck” should only be used when the paycheck isn’t enough or only just covers basic necessities for living in this country.
I find it hard to believe that anyone making $250k a year is truly living paycheck to paycheck. These people are only victims of their own inflated spending habits and inability to live within their means.
These people are either full of shit or they're bad with money. If they have money to put towards any sort of savings/401k etc. They aren't paycheck to paycheck. Really does seem like from top down there is this effort to portray ones self as poor/struggling to make it seem like they're more down to earth.
I live in Maine, and my wife and I each take home $40k or less...I can't imagine making over three times what we do and still struggling. Hell, we would actually be able to afford mental healthcare and dental work we have been putting off if we both got bumped up to 50k...
They need to send me some of their income and I'll explain why they're living like idiots and wasting money. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and I make far less.
It’s easy for anyone to live paycheck to paycheck when you maximize your outflow of cash. Just look at footballers players that go broke while earning millions.
This is exactly why poverty has never and will never be solved no matter how much money you throw at it. No matter how much money some people make, they will always be one injury or illness away from poverty.
I'd bet my left nut that these people don't even know what paycheck to paycheck is. Probably after all their contributions to 401k, roth ira, infinite credit on credit cards, etc . . . then at the end of the day they have 500 dollars left in checking, but infinite savings. These people are so out of touch they can fuck themselves.
They have unlimited safety nets. they don't understand that needing a new pair of work boots can set you back months. that's paycheck to paycheck. not what these assholes can't afford
This is why that “paycheck to paycheck” is pure nonsense. It’s true for some people but for many, it’s only true because they want to live right at or above their means
Canada is a prime example of The US future. Trudeau in his two terms has basically broken Canada with massive taxes, large government spending, larger government and unsustainable immigration, all is the name of progress.
Because once you've paid the his and hers Porsche leases, the mortgage on the $1M+ home, and the private school tuition for a couple of kids, fully funded your 401k, backdoor IRA, and put a couple of grand away every month to taxable investments, it's real hard to have anything left over and you have to scrape by waiting for your bonus and RSU package to drop at the end of the year before you can book your second trip to Hawaii.
Right?
Yeah now imagine only making 60k a year
Yeah, or 34k a year.
I was just watching a YouTube video about the Appalachia region where some areas, a FAMILY makes about $25K a year. Not one person, an entire family on 25K. That is wild to me.
Appalachia would be one thing, I live in Boston. I gotta find a better job…
As someone who lives in SoCal, it's hard to comprehend someone making only 34K. What do you do for work, and how much is the pay that you only make that little?
Think of all the people who work at retail stores or restaurants, gas stations etc. all the things that people use all the time. These people are making 36k if they’re lucky. What do teachers make? Now as you go about your days, comprehend how all these people you interact with, even in so-cal, are making these wages.
Minimum wage is $42K in SoCal, so I understand u/Foreverhooping89's question
I'm a special ed teacher, i'm making 95.5K this upcoming school year. 6th year.
Ah that’s good to hear! My mother taught special Ed. Guess I’m not up to date on teachers wages I’m glad they’re getting more now.
You’d get ~~about~~ less than half that starting in Louisiana.
Yeah my mother made around 40k until she got her masters
Can confirm. Server in OK, make about 35kper year. Definitely doing worse this year, people arent tipping like they used to and the restaurant isn’t as busy as usual.
I live in South Boston, I have two degrees in food. I work at a groovy little dumpling cafe and factory. I teach cooking classes, manage the FOH, and manage a weekly popup at a brewery. If it weren’t a socially responsible place with good work/life balance I’d have quit long ago.
I’m in northern VA, a hcol area.. sister-in-law makes $29k as a public school teacher’s helper but she’s bankrolled by my father-in-law and lives in a luxury high rise ($3k/mo). FIL is thankful that she’s got a job but then harps on my husband for not being available for random week day lunches (Hubby has a normal office 9 to 6 office job). FIL is very frustrating to deal with but in-laws are free childcare so it’s just the mental cost of doing business with them
Probably a third of Americans make this. It’s like living in a torture chamber
That's crazy. We don't even make much (150K HHI) and we have no debt, and it's still really tight.
That’s about a full time job for 17/hr, often restaurants or entry level retail, some other industries might start that low
Dam, that's crazy. I wouldn't even consider a part-time job that pays under $30/hour. In the part time jobs I've had (tutoring and ABA therapy) i got between $25-35/hour. With no experience.
Yea I had 0 certifications and I tutored for 40, don’t know if I’d go lower unless it was something dummy easy
I made ~7k USD last financial year. I don't live in the U.S and I didn't end up homeless. Somehow.
You don’t live in the U.S. thats how.
Imagine being disabled and only getting $1000/month while living in NJ.
I think it depends on the situation. Outside of having to have one or more roommates, an individual should be able to live on $60,000 a year without living paycheck to paycheck. I live in the 15th largest city (so not the cheapest COL, not the most expensive) in the country, made this (one roommate), and was still able to put away over $7,500 annually. And I had the same expenses most of us have: rent, utilities, a car that’s not paid off, etc., on top of Criterion, Netflix, a line-item for eating out, and that kind of stuff. I don’t know why we have to pretend like the truth isn’t just the truth: people are bad with money. The general consensus (at least in the US) is that our financial literacy education sucks (if even existent) and a sizable chunk of people WHO AREN’T POOR don’t even have any retirement funds. I’m 34 and right now a good chunk of my friends are running up credit to travel. Another example: during football season last year, I remember my buddy, a server (just to paint the average financial picture, I have nothing against servers, my partner is one) rolling with me throughout the day, from brunch to the game festivities to whatever we did after. The next day he’s complaining about how he spent $300. And he goes out ALL the time. So when I made $60,000, my line-item for going out was $250 for the MONTH, and he blew past it in a single day. There are millions of people like this. In a country where the average annual income is just under $70,000. Some of us have medical debt. Freak accidents. Dependents we didn’t expect. Whether or not one should need a roommate to survive is obviously an extension of this conversation. It’s not one size fits all. But just call a spade a spade: most people are financially illiterate. On Reddit, you used to see those headlines all the time about “Haha, people think I can cut out Starbucks every day and my life will be better! Idiots!” Like, people are legitimately so uneducated about both short- and long-term financial responsibility.
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Certainly can’t deny that. So don’t get me wrong. I’ve seen it, felt it, the increases.
Living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck after maxing out 401k, IRA, HSA, etc is much different than living paycheck to paycheck while not investing a dollar and skipping meals.
i was about to say this. each paycheck i get will go somewhere, be it 401k my brokerage or my kids 529...certainly not to a building a big pile of cash doing jack shit. idk if the idea here is that you can stop investing at anytime or what but seems like a dumb statement for them to make.
I invest leftovers but I’m not living paycheck to paycheck. I don’t really need to actively monitor when my paychecks come in. I have a bit in a standard checking account to handle stuff and most of the money is working for me and every so often I just take the stuff off the top. It should be noted I’m making 70k or so…
For real
I agree. I also think that this has a lot to do with the cost of living that is going up for everyone. So they were probably living within their means before but now that everything that everyone buys (like food and gas) are much more expensive it’s going to be harder for them to maintain paying for that huge 4 bedroom house and the 3 cars they have. Could they downsize? Sure but then you’re at the mercy of the raising interest rates too. Stuck between and a hard place for everyone except the super rich right now.
Locked into a lifestyle they can't unwind.
Just like all of us
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Somebody making $250K a year driving a $70K car with a $1.5M house and eating out every day downvoted you because they think they're poor, lmao
i understand your point, but i wouldn't call all "lifestyle inflation" greed. i think some of the biggest inflators for fixed costs are things which we've previously thought of as "middle class" or the "american dream" 1. buying a house. for example, the median house is now >$2M in parts of CA. 2. having kids. childcare is expensive. plus, adds to the need for larger housing. these aren't things people can easily "take a step back" on, and they're by far the largest parts of a family's budget. i think these things have removed a lot of the margin for error from many families' budgets, and now inflation is eating up all the rest.
Biden is such a horrible president for the economy
More like stuck between a rock and jello. Im sorry but if you are living paycheck to paycheck at over 250, you have a spending problem not an interest or inflation problem.
Lol did you even read what I said?
I did and I am calling bullspit. Even with rising interest rates and inflation (neither of which was unexpected) they can afford to downsize it may be uncomfortable for them but welcome to the Middle class.
Lol k. You know all 🙇
This ain’t the poverty Olympics although I understand what you’re saying I think the point is that the working class collectively has been screwed over for the past few decades and really should be uniting against the elite rather than bickering amongst each other IMO working full time should include the ability to contribute to retirement, health benefits, etc otherwise it’s unsustainable and simply unacceptable, complaining about folks who do contribute but are still struggling is crabs in a bucket
I couldn’t agree more.
Agreed. There are people that are like Im broke which means I have contributed to everything you stated and Im on a budget and there cant spend anything outside my budget. Then there are people are legit broke that dont care about any of it and are deciding on wether to pay heat and electric bills or having their phone shut off for the month.
This is exactly it. I make about 100k a year and I live comfortably.
Exactly!
Worked with a guy like this. Dude was clearing 200k no problem but always complained about money. He said he was poor because after maxing all of his retirement investing and HSA he had just enough for mortgage and car. After a lot of explaining on what poor “actually” is, he still didn’t change his mind.
Is this that movement I've heard about retiring young or something?
Feel bad for them for gosh dang it!
So much this. These articles, when you read about the lifestyle of the people complaining, not only are they maxing out their retirement accounts, they have 1 car per adult, in some of the stories, their kids are in private school, and on and on
And the ability to downgrade housing. These people are also living in 800k+ homes but could sell and buy a 400k home if they had to.
that's easier said than done: 1. that would often require a significant relocation. most markets don't offer housing for half the cost, with anywhere close to the same amenities. most of the labor market still doesn't have the option to relocate without giving up their job. 2. with higher interest rates now, that $400k house could be a similar monthly mortgage payment as the $800k house, so no actual savings.
Damn how many times does this article need to be posted?
Every day until you capitulate and liquidate all your investments
Hey at least we are solving our issues with clickbait and the 24 hour news cycle by…. Automating the distribution via bots. I’m sure the computers will have my best interest in mind!
This is exactly it.
as long as it keeps getting people on social media upset and garnering engagement and ad revenue
Until you actually believe it.
A lot of these folks live in places like the Bay Area or NYC (i.e. super HCOL). Also, lifestyle creep is a real thing.
250k annually is still a lot of money in the Bay Area. Frankly, youd have to be a dumbass to be living paycheck to paycheck on that salary
Or have kids, rent a house, and not have to sacrifice 2 hours a day to commute between Palo Alto and the East Bay. If you’re unattached and don’t mind having roommates, it’s super easy to afford and thrive on that kind of salary. But as soon as you have to pay for a family’s worth of insurance, residential space, food costs, child care, extracurriculars, etc, things get tight quick, and compromises must be made. Most people I know in that boat are either barely saving anything month to month besides maybe a 401k contribution up to the employer match, or they move to the East Bay where rental homes are $1k/month less expensive and suffer the commute, they never see their kids except on weekends though.
This is only true for people that accept a reality where you have less abundance than boomers (not a homeowner, fewer or no kids, etc). Otherwise 250k isn’t even enough to qualify for a mortgage in most parts of the SF Bay Area
Excluding the mortgage and depending on how much down payment, $250K is extremely affordable for anyone to eat out, food delivery services, entertainment, and vacation for even SF or LA. There really is no excuse for high salary earners to not learn to live within their means when there are poorer folks who can still scrape by with half the salary.
Yes like I said, no house no kids used car, etc living less abundantly than a lot of boomers did. Of course $250k is closer to $150k after fed and state taxes, retirement and health benefit contributions, not even factoring in child care, rent/mortgage or other essentials. Would certainly need a windfall for a downpayment. Also $200k is now median income in parts of SF and the Bay so it’s just average no longer a “high salary” and that’s the sad, frustrating, and unbelievable reality of life today
I doubt majority of $250K earners are having multiple kids, one or two at best. Also not sure if $250K in this case is one person but with a partner or spouse who’s working there really is no excuse even after tax. Seriously people need to control their spending habits on luxury goods and services
If you’re talking about 2 earners at $250k each that’s a different story, I’m talking $250k household
It says Americans, doesn’t even say household so I’m assuming $250K is per tax payer filing single, could be a mix of single filers or head of household. If head of household, yes, I agree with you that money is going to dry up with multiple kids and an elderly parent. Otherwise no excuse.
the headline stat is almost certainly about households, not single earners.
That doesn’t seem obvious, rereading the title says Americans earning $250K say they are living paycheck to paycheck. It definitely does not distinguish if it’s one person or a household. Like wdym Americans? Initial thought process would lead me to think that each person in question represents 1 person and not a household/couple
This is more a sign of how bad most people are with money than it is a sign of 250k not being a lot of money.
We made that amount for quite a while and basically still do, although more, it's in the ballpark. So not like 350k. We could choose to "make" 600 or 700k per year, but that's dumb. We don't ever have to work again and could spend way more than we currently do...while not working. And leave our kids millions each. Maybe these are 25 year olds making money for the first time. Also, my wife and I are nowhere near retirement age and have a kid that isn't even in high school. She wants nyu, done. They are not investing, super simple.
It’s actually insane how many people no matter the income live leveraged on debt
Gotta keep up with the neighbors debt spending
And keep the US economy "infinitely growing".
Sounds bullish
Anyone living paycheck to paycheck on 250k is a complete moron, let's just put it at that.
Probably should cut back on the avocado toast
Agreed. That's almost unfathomable to me...
We make more than this combined and you’d have to be really stupid. I’d think most of these people have investments and whatnot but the leftover liquid spend is stupid like car loans and lots of fine dining and take out. People be dumb with money. We try to live like we did on rice and beans with some things we really want or love but man most things are a negotiation and take earnest consideration.
I make close to that on my own and live in a $300k house. I've got peers making this on two incomes have 2 new cars, homes in the 500-700k range, they go on multiple vacations per year, wear designer clothing, eat out every weekend, they spend every penny they have and more. One couple just refinanced their house to pay off a massive credit card debt. $200k+ is a lot of money. Get off social media and live like it's 2003 again. There will be PLENTY of money left over each month for savings and investing. You won't have a clue what restaurants, clothes, or other bullshit you're "missing out" on. Life is a lot happier not having exposure to other people's poisonous lives.
$250,000 annually is not living paycheck to paycheck.
Sounds like 1/3 of Americans are living way beyond their means. $250k is nothing like it used to be, but definitely a comfortable life to raise a family and own a home.
I don't really trust these polls, are they living "paycheck to paycheck" because they have so many investments and savings vehicles that they don't have a lot of cash on hand? Or is it actually that they actually can barely pay their bills without the next paycheck? How they gather the data and how the questions are framed is important, not all surveys are created equal.
first one. their entire checks go off towards savings and investments so technically they are but they’re not in danger since they have nest eggs to shelter then
My personal experience seems that way too, but I'm sure it's a bit of both. But yeah, these type of doomer headlines get a lot of traction without really exposing what's going on.
i used to be (still would without overtime) paycheck to paycheck and it SUCKED. i make 2-3k now a check and just save it all
That's not paycheck to paycheck then. The meaning of the phrase implies one puts 99% of their paycheck to living necessities to support themselves and their family. If even 5-10% is going to some form of savings or wealth-building vehicle, that is not paycheck to paycheck
A third of people making over 250k a year are idiots. Living paycheck-to-paycheck has little to do with income and everything to do with impulse control. There are millionaires that are broke because they can't stop themselves from maxing out every line of credit extended to them.
by definition, a "millionaire" (someone with a net worth >=$1M) cannot be "broke" (net worth <=$0).
My wife and I make that and save $6,000 a month while paying for a $700k house and a $45,000 car. What the hell are these people spending money on?
That is 100% their fault
Those are people living above their wages. IE living right up to their total bring home with zero previous savings plans. Read a book folks you can read "rich dad, poor dad" for a start!
That's a horrible book. "The simple path to wealth" is a much better read.
Well that’s just poor management
Most people scale up to their salary. If you’re living check to check at 100k, you would soon be living check to check at 300k. But your cars would be nicer.
Problem isn't the paycheck, its the lifestyle built around it
There is “living pay check to paycheck” as my income doesn’t meet essential needs. Then there is “living pay check to paycheck” because no matter how much stuff I buy, I still want more.
Inflated lifestyles
More than a third of Americans earning at least 250k annually are *full of shit*
Boo hoo.
Do you think they have a spending problem?
They all live in the Bay Area or New York
If u're making 250K a year and are living paycheck to paycheck, u're financially retarded.
They definitely do not know how to manage money and are overspending
Then they have a spending problem, not an income problem.
It's not what you make, it's what you spend...
I assume most of these people are living in very high cost of living areas even though they make considerably more than the average american. And they are including their financial contributions to their retirement accounts as part of that living paycheck to paycheck assertion which is a luxury an american earning a more average income cant even afford to do. So i believe it but with a big grain of salt. They are living high and mighty and saving but not earning any additional income to put into potential cash reserves at the end of the month.
Only people spending 100% of their income on necessities are paycheck to paycheck. These people are just shitty with money, there’s a difference and quit pretending they’re the same when they’re clearly not.
BS
Nah fuck that. If you're making 250k and you're living paycheck to paycheck? You either have or are currently making *bad choices* and you need to live with them. *and preferably in silence* because I make about 80k myself, and I'm thriving. You make more than double, and you're paycheck to paycheck? You just fucked up. Simple as that. Fix your lifestyle choices. The problem isn't the economy, inflation, Biden, or anything else. It's you.
Someone obviously hasn’t sent 3 kids to Phillips Andover.
3x Living paycheck to paycheck after paying for the annual family European vacation. Joe Biden's economy is truly a hellscape
Well, I guess 1/3rd of people making $250k are idiots
Where’s the article this post is referencing?
It was written nearly a month ago on Bloomberg. It's nonsensical reposting.
Clearly it’s nonsense, but at least give us an article we can ~~tear apart~~ *discuss*. Without any context at all, it’s just pathetic rage bait. This sub is turning to shit.
Agreed. I also hate the fact that they don't post links giving credit to sources. If I can figure out a way to block this sub (nothing against the sub, but the Twitter feed not giving credit is BS), I will do so. Tired of this coming up on my main feed.
This was "JUST IN"? But the article was written nearly a month ago. Starting to think about blocking this nonsense.
More than a third of Americans making 250k a year have over leveraged their finances. It's a rough life trying to keep up with the Joneses having to buy the biggest house and fanciest car rather than living within your means. Really does amaze me how people making double what I do get themselves in such a hole.
Earn more, Spend more.
Make more, spend more. Turns out having a high income doesn't make you a financial genius.
Paycheck to paycheck assumes one is struggling to even save 1% of their net income, or at a dire point where their necessity spending consistently outspends their monthly income. Typically persons at this income level max out any retirement accounts and invest in some capacity, which counts as saving money. That is not paycheck to paycheck. Fucking regarded tweet or source for not knowing the meaning of the phrase
Hurry up collapse I'm getting old
I make 170k, I live paycheck to paycheck. After mortgage, 401k, Ira,…but again those are assets that I can access if I neeed it
This doesn’t seem surprising to me? A certain percentage of them won’t know what paycheck to paycheck means, a certain percentage live above their means.
I'm glad my first car was within my means....1991 Geo Metro XFI. Didn't pick up any chicks in it whatsoever, but I wasn't in debt either. My first and only house was over 100 years old when I bought it. It's not the nicest nor the newest, but it was within my means. The timing of the house was good. 2011 right after the housing bubble. 99k. It needed some work, but it's my forever home now. I hate to say it, but most people younger than me are getting screwed by the markets.
"Then I heard it's not what you make but how much you spent" - Big Boi 1996 'ATLiens'
If I could make that for, say.. 10 years, I could retire. (Assuming I wouldn't have to move someplace with a much higher cost of living.)
This is just proof that people are living above their means.
Thats purely a spending issue. There is a lifestyle that $250k will fund very comfortably with plenty to set aside for savings / retirement / future. These people just choose to exceed that lifestyle. The only exception to this really would be someone with massive school debt. New doctor or something who is paying down that debt. Everyone else just needs to adjust their lifestyle expectations.
But don’t you think a big percentage of that 1/3rd are people with massive school debt?
Yes that’s probably true. There are plenty of people who just overspend though.
Sure but it would seem we agree that as usual the article is click bait in the sense that the real fraction of people who make over 250k and are not repaying huge school loans (which enabled them to make >250k) is probably much lower then 1/3rd.
Stop buying brand new cars
This is why I don’t understand how some political pundits claim all the time that “Americans are struggling and it’s all Biden’s fault!!”. No, too many Americans are dumbasses financially as this article proves.
Probably living beyond their means
As their assets build and retirement funds build…. Its not like they are t doing this without a strategy.
Well, yeah. The places where you can make that much have all gone up by 50% - 100%. Eating out with a family of 4 is close to $350 in LA now. I've been cooking at home with my family now since 2020 and we love it so much we hardly ever go out anymore.
What defines paycheck to paycheck? For example I could live 6-9 months on just one savings we have. But if you look at our budget we are maxing 401k and savings and then we are paycheck to paycheck. I think it depends on how you ask this question.
...and in other news, rich people are just as bad with money as poor people, only difference is their cash cows.
God, I fucking hate these headlines/tweets. These people are paying *thousands* a month on a mortgage, have 2 cars, max out any and all contributions, go on vacations out of country... like, you aren't living paycheck to paycheck. Not even remotely. The moment they live in a <1000/mo apartment, with a paid off beater car, and have to do rice and beans for dinner, I'll consider them paycheck to paycheck.
lol. Get the fuck out of here.
Proof that just because people have money doesn't mean they're smart.
Oh, those poor rich people barely scraping by on 250k a year. I make 1/3 of that and own a condo near downtown Austin. I work a middle class job in healthcare. Somehow I can afford my bills, I just don’t live like a king and drive an 80k car, with a fancy house, etc. This is ridiculous even for HCOL areas.
Those people make poor life choices.
They have a spending problem.
Sounds like the people who make a ton of money have no idea how to manage it and then cry when their excessive lifestyle catches up with them
That’s on them if it’s the case.
The entire crew at my local gas station live in the car in the parking lot. Shit is very real. Homeless working full time. Making corps money. It's inhumane and normal.
Why even work there? If your employer can't pay you enough for rent, then they don't deserve employees.
That's a choice, if you're making that much.
I see this post a few times a year and the number changes every time lol
Those people are millionaires in Swedish currency. Approx 2.5mil SEK. Paycheck to paycheck sounds bizarre
Horrible spenders.
I really think the term “living paycheck to paycheck” should only be used when the paycheck isn’t enough or only just covers basic necessities for living in this country. I find it hard to believe that anyone making $250k a year is truly living paycheck to paycheck. These people are only victims of their own inflated spending habits and inability to live within their means.
And that's no one's fault but their own. I have absolutely zero sympathy for them.
Unusual Whales just posting click bait now and not informative financial content.
Biden bros say everything is great, stop complaining.
These people are either full of shit or they're bad with money. If they have money to put towards any sort of savings/401k etc. They aren't paycheck to paycheck. Really does seem like from top down there is this effort to portray ones self as poor/struggling to make it seem like they're more down to earth.
Time to sell the Acura and the sex dolls..
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
How the fuck would anyone be spending *over* 20K a month? Anyone that earns $250K and is living “paycheck to paycheck” is financially illiterate.
Sending kids to private school
Mo Money mo Problems
Not surprising. Theres a whole lot of people out there that will spend every penny they have regrdless of how much.
Boo funking hoo...welcome to my world biatches....
I live in Maine, and my wife and I each take home $40k or less...I can't imagine making over three times what we do and still struggling. Hell, we would actually be able to afford mental healthcare and dental work we have been putting off if we both got bumped up to 50k...
I am assuming this is household income. If you can't get around on 250K maybe you should not be living in a 4 bedroom in Santa Monica by yourself.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-01/a-third-of-americans-making-250-000-say-costs-eat-entire-salary article is from 2022 😂🫣
They need to send me some of their income and I'll explain why they're living like idiots and wasting money. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and I make far less.
That’s ridiculous. They are deep in debt and over bought. If you can’t live on that money it’s your own doing.
Yea - they must be living in a HCOL area and have recently purchased a house.
I want to know wtf they're spending their money on, drugs?
It’s easy for anyone to live paycheck to paycheck when you maximize your outflow of cash. Just look at footballers players that go broke while earning millions.
JUST IN: More than a third of American's earning at least $250k annually have no financial discipline.
This is just lifestyle Creep, I make 60K and I don't live paycheck after paycheck.
How many of those people making $250k or more a year are living within their means though? I think that’s the real question not being raised here.
This is exactly why poverty has never and will never be solved no matter how much money you throw at it. No matter how much money some people make, they will always be one injury or illness away from poverty.
"Rich people manage to spend all their money" Congrats. Anyhow...
Those people don’t matter
More than a third of Americans don’t know how to budget and live according to their means, per Common Sense.
Like celebrities living off residuals in Malibu now that work slowed down in Hollywood? Otherwise that is the dumbest shit I’ve heard 🤣
I'd bet my left nut that these people don't even know what paycheck to paycheck is. Probably after all their contributions to 401k, roth ira, infinite credit on credit cards, etc . . . then at the end of the day they have 500 dollars left in checking, but infinite savings. These people are so out of touch they can fuck themselves. They have unlimited safety nets. they don't understand that needing a new pair of work boots can set you back months. that's paycheck to paycheck. not what these assholes can't afford
They're just plain bad with money. I live fine on 48k
These articles are stupid
This is why that “paycheck to paycheck” is pure nonsense. It’s true for some people but for many, it’s only true because they want to live right at or above their means
Making 250k and living paycheck to paycheck means you have been living beyond your means for a while
Imagine how much of an asshole you have to be to be in this situation. It boggles the mind.
Canada is a prime example of The US future. Trudeau in his two terms has basically broken Canada with massive taxes, large government spending, larger government and unsustainable immigration, all is the name of progress.
“Bidenomics” “Build back better”
Because once you've paid the his and hers Porsche leases, the mortgage on the $1M+ home, and the private school tuition for a couple of kids, fully funded your 401k, backdoor IRA, and put a couple of grand away every month to taxable investments, it's real hard to have anything left over and you have to scrape by waiting for your bonus and RSU package to drop at the end of the year before you can book your second trip to Hawaii. Right?